Even if you think that someone isn’t using the right definition for themself, I just think it’s best to just let them decide what label they think fits them best lol
This! My gf & I are both attracted to all genders but I identify as pan while she prefers calling herself bi. This doesn't mean that either of us is using the wrong definition, we just feel more comfortable using different terms (and she likes purple while I love pink & blue, but I'm not sure just how much that affected anything? xD xD)
right, and even if it's the wrong label, like for example when a girl figures out she's not bi but a lesbian, it's none of your buisness, if she feels comfortable with the label bi right now than leave her alone, don't say it's the wrong label, if it's actually the wrong label then she will figure it out sooner or later by herself
This is so true. To be technically accurate, I’m probably pan. But I grew up in a deep red state, and was thrilled to learn the term bisexual existed (in COLLEGE). I fought so hard for acceptance as bi, that by the time I learned the term “pan”, “bi” meant so much more to me than an incidental label. I can’t just discard it.
Agree! I think all the labels are great and for sure help a lot of ppl to feel included and themselves, but I think we shouldn’t do the same mistake we did with straight and man and women, to over label things. Like if someone doesn’t want to get labelled that is perfectly fine and we should stan that, instead of labelling them and basically do the same thing as the good old homophobes do. I don’t care what I am, I am me and I am excepted as me, by the one person who I care about. Technically I think I would be Pan nonbi, but I just don’t care, I don’t need to label me „correct“ to be happy. I hope that made sense 👀
i feel like so many people need to also realise that a straight woman can be attracted to a transman, it doesnt make her pan, since *hes a man* ; and vice versa for a straight man being attracted to a transwomen
Yes! My sister tried to say she realized she was pan because she found this transguy hot... And I was so bummed because I'm a trans man and she didn't even realize what she was saying to me. Luckily, she got it when I pointed it out, but... Yeesh, Sis!
@@micahroberts8383 she can still identify as pan though, depending on how she feels... what if, for example, the trans guy she finds hot looks feminine to some extent, and your sister realized she is attracted to his femininity? (I'm not saying trans guys look feminine, but it is a possibility, just like it is for cis guys) Your sister has to acknowledge trans men as men (and she probably does), but she doesn't have to find trans men and cis men attractive in the same way, attraction is not something we have control over. The way she finds or doesn't find people attractive doesn't affect your (or that guy's or anyone's) gender identity.
"You can't be bi because you're dating a trans man so you're a lesbian!" "You can't be bi because you're dating a trans man so you're straight!" "You can't be bi because you're dating a trans man so you're pansexual!" It's amazing that so many people can have so many different and conflicting ideas about your identity based on one single factor
Lmaooo all these people trying to define something they don't even remotely understand when they can't even grasp the difference between sex and gender and the concept of pronouns XDD
I say I’m bisexual meaning I’m attracted to two groups of people: 1) people with my same gender (women) and 2) people of a gender different to mine (men, nb people, etc)
the difference is reflected in the flag! the bisexual blue means same gender, purple is any others, and bi pink means opposite genders! pansexual blue means masc people, pink means fem people, and yellow means others!
That's exactly how I define my bisexuality. The "2" are people of my gender and people of genders other than mine. I'm excited to see a comment right away that I relate so heavily with!
I consider myself bi. I’m attracted to all genders, but gender is still a factor. The things I’m attracted to in a man is different from what I’m attracted to in a woman and both are different from what I’m attracted to in a non-binary person.
I'd just like to offer another perspective on this issue. I don't feel that my attraction is gender-led, but I usually identify as bi. Why? Because pan was not a term I had ever heard when I came out, I don't have to explain it, and I prefer the bi flag. From my perspective, bisexuality is a rectangle, and pansexuality is a square. Some people like to get hung up on the measurements of our sides and forget that we have the same angles.
I think this is a great explanation! From all that I've seen and read, the only definitions of bi and pan that don't exclude some people from each community are: bi= attraction to 2 or more genders, pan= attraction to all genders. In other words, bi is more broad and pan more specific. Someone attracted to all genders could identity as either or both depending on what is comfortable for them. A lot of bi people experience attraction regardless of gender, and there are also pan people who do feel that gender plays a role in their attraction, so that factor can't really be used to separate the identities. There is a lot of overlap and that is okay! For those who fall in the overlapping area, it just comes down to personal reasons for feeling connected to a certain label or group of labels (e.g., it was the one you first adopted, you feel more connected to a certain history/community, you prefer greater specificity, you prefer more broadness/fluidity in the label, you like both because they both describe you, etc.).
oh god yes, same!! Bisexual was the term I knew when I started thinking about this because I did not have access to any sort of community that could tell me about different terms. I learned about Pan far later and I never really vibed with it? So I kind of,,,don't care. I personally don't mind when people use them as synonyms but I don't want to identify as pan simply because of my past struggles to find a label. Also, I'm shallow and I like the bi colours more
This. Bisexual was the label that when I came out was the one I identified with. I had these feelings even before I had even heard of bisexuality (sex education really needs to become better). It felt right and I wouldn't change it. In the mean time I also found out that I could also identify as sapio and demi, but it doesn't feel right and all of them can become really confusing. If someone asks I will of course tell them all about it, but if most people will only be confused it will only take away from what I'm trying to get across.
I've heard another definition of bisexual: attraction to genders like your own, and genders unlike your own. 🤷 I'm bi, and that's how I explain it. Either way, we're all valid! 🙏💗💜💙
The only issue I have with this one is the homonormativity, which, tbh, is better than heteronormativity but still problematic. Basically, if a woman is bi and attracted to men and non-binary folks but not women, then this definition doesn't work for her and she is still bi. Still, it works for a lot of us! So, it could describe an individual's experience as a bisexual without working as a group definition.
@@micahroberts8383 I think this might polysexual. Bi is defined as liking men and women, and poly is in between pan and bi (meaning you're not attracted to every gender, but also not only males and females, and you are attracted to multiple, like your example). However, I'm not bi so I don't know. And as originally stated, we're all valid, so it doesn't matter too much!
I agree with your definition of bisexuality, Miss Naomi. It is the one I use to explain how I am bi. I don't think this invalidates any bi person who isn't attracted to certain genders because the phrase "genders unlike your own" does not explicitly say every gender (though it can mean that for some bi people).
@@osheridan bi is not just liking men and women. if you watched the video and actually paid attention you would know that. im sorry if this comes across as rude or something im just tired of having people constantly try to tell me what my identity means.
Telling others what their identity is is a bit silly. I am straight and I have always been. I have no control over it. I only find myself interested in men and attraction to other genders is nonexistent. But just like Shaaba, I recognize other genders and respect other identities. Attraction is very personal and humans basically have no control over who we feel that spark for.
I think I just have a hard time conceptualising gender-based attraction. For example if you're only interested in men and no other genders at all. Say you find the most attractive man ever and you enter a happy, loving long-term relationship with him. Now one day this person you're in a relationship comes out as agender or something. He still has the exact same personality and doesn't change anything about his presentation (he looks the same, dresses the same, acts the same, is fine wih he/him pronouns, etc.). All that's changed from your perspective is the gender label and any internal feelings you assume come with that label. Would you then really lose all attraction to him instantly? Would he just go from the most attractive person in the world to not at all attractive? That sounds wild to me.
@@unmanlymanticore3582 same! ive been scared to mention it in case people thought i was invalidating sexualities like lesbian gay and straight but it genuinely does confuse me so much as well
@@cocoacoolness sameeee, except that for me it’s not being in a relationship, it’s just that I can find people attractive. Like, who do people think they are to tell others what their identity is
Jesus’s sugar baby uwu • 78 years ago honestly- the fact that people can't wrap their heads around finding someone attractive but not wantong to have sex with them is mental to me. They've never thought someone was good-looking but not wanted to shag them?
Hii!! A pansexual here.💖💛💙 I identify as a pansexual cis-gender woman NOT because my attraction is based ONLY on the personality but because I like a person regardless his/her/their gender. This doesn't mean that I don't have any estethic preferences. In my life I experienced that I prefer a person who has both masculine and faminine attitude/style/manners and when I see someone I like I don't ask myself what's the gender because I simply don't care, I only find him/her/them attractive thanks to a mix of things (estethic or not). There are pansexuals that are different than me and prefer other characteristics instead.
I generally vibe with the definition of bi as "my own gender and different genders". To be honest, I'm not sure that I'm *not* pan, and I don't think I'd be that mad to be labelled with it. But for me bi was the label I discovered first and the label that made me feel understood and whole, so it would feel weird to me to change it. Also the exact definition of my sexuality would be more like "if I meet this person who is aesthetically pleasing and I like their personality AND they show some sort of romantic interest in me, I may possibly be attracted to them at seemingly random times and levels of intensity. Or I may just want to be left alone to read books."
@@maidenrohina hey how would you define biromantic demisexual? If you're comfortable sharing, I only ask because I grew up in a town where you could either be gay, straight or bi, no other options and I'm still working out how I identify. Currently going with biromantic aromantic
@@amelieg246 I'm totally happy to explain, as I know how confusing it can be to figure out and hopefully my explanation isn't even more confusing. So generally I do find some people objectively attractive, either my own gender or a gender different to my own, hence the bi part of Biromantic, but any initial attraction I feel towards them is purely romantic attraction rather then sexual attraction, which is why I feel Biromantic fits best in relation to my attractions. The demisexuality is clearest in two different ways for me one is if I was to imagine a relationship with someone, I would fantasise about going out to a fancy restaurant on a date or staying up late talking about our favourite books etc., where as someone else may fantasise about those same things but also about what they're like in bed (I guess, I wouldn't know) but for me not once does my fantasy even think about sex, it's as if my brain forgets that sex even exists, it's just not something I generally think about. The other part of demisexuality for me is when I am in a relationship, I would say that 85%-90% of the time my brain continues to forget that sex exists unless it is initiated by my partner and then my brain will go 'oh that's right, that's a thing that we enjoy' but it has to actively concentrate on the mood as it is very easy for my brain to get distracted and loose the mood. And then the other 10%-15% of the time my brain will actively be like 'hey remember sex, yeah that exists, and you enjoy it, you should go do that with your partner'. I personally have only ever had those thoughts when I am in a relationship. I hope that was clear, if not I'll happily clarify or answer any other questions. Of course this is my own personal experience and interpretation of the definition of these labels and what suits me.
The reason why I prefer the term bisexual for myself is because my attraction isn't regardless of gender. The attraction I feel toward men and women feel very different, I don't like the same traits in men and women. I haven't explored my attraction toward non binary people but I'm sure I wouldn't mind dating one if I really liked them.
Imagine being arrogant enough to tell someone that you know their identity more than they do. Like, unless the person is confused on the terms they're using, don't act like you know better than them
I think the difference is asking for input or not. If you’re still confused and you try to explain your attraction and someone tells you some labels that fit that is a lot different than unsolicited ‘advice’ -it’s not even advice- on someone’s sexuality who already is quite certain about their identity.
Also, in the end the importance is not the word itself, but the meaning behind it. Words have as much definitions as people that interpret the meaning.
I'd like to add one more perspective on why someone might use "bisexual" while actually being functionally pansexual - age. I came out as bi before there was any real awareness or visible presence of either non-binary people OR the word "pansexual". Even though times and language have changed, I still see "bi" as being perfectly representative of how I feel attraction regardless of gender. And I have a few other reasons for using "bi" or "bi+", as well. 1) Bisexuality is legally recognized in non-discrimination laws where I live. Pansexuality is not. 2) The bi flag looks way better than the pan flag (maybe that's just me being shallow, but it's also why I use the trans flag instead of the non-binary flag - I just prefer the color schemes of the bi and trans flags over the pan and NB flags, and my non-binary identity is a trans identity to me as well, though not all NB people consider themselves to be trans). 3) To me, there is no functional difference between my bisexuality and pansexuality. Mostly they just need to be intelligent and share common values and interests with me more than anything else!
As an enby who came out as bisexual first, i see bisexuality as “attraction to people of the same gender (enbies) and attraction to people of other genders (women, men, agender, etc).” It’s still two groups, just more broad. And honestly, it’s easier to come out a as bi. Most people my generation and older have No idea what pansexual even means. As a fairly socially anxious person, I just don’t want to go into a several minute long conversation about my identity with a stranger or with a new friend, or a co worker.
I’m getting sick of bisexuals saying they don’t like my flag. Obviously you can have your own opinion. But stating it like it’s an objective fact is just plain rude.
I used to use the “two or more” definition for myself until I found a definition that describes bisexuality as attraction to genders that are “the same/similar and different to your own gender identity” I think it fits my personal experience with my sexuality better that “two or more” and subverts “bi means two” to mean “same and different” instead of “man and woman”. I can be attracted to any gender but my experience with attraction and the physical and/or personality traits that I’m attracted to changes based on gender (there is overlap though)
Yes! Absolutely. I identify as bisexual and have been attracted to people of all genders, and I find the "same/similar and other" definition to be the one that resonates best with me.
Thanks for posting this! I prefer the "bi" label to "pan" - partly because I've been using it since forever - so this explanation feels very close to my heart. My attraction also varies based on the person's gender (sometimes very much so), hence I choose the bi + demi combo over the pansexual label.
AAAH i feel so sad thaT YOU GUYS DONT EVEN KNOW THAT OMNISEXUALITY EXISTSSS. WHAT YOURE LOOKING FOR IS OMNISEXUAL, YOU LIKE ALL GENDERS, SINCE YOU SAID U DONT AGREE AND DONT FEEL THAT BEING "BI (2 GENDER) SEXUAL" THEN JUST USE OMNISEXUAL OMG EDIT: i did not mean to force you out of your own sexuality, im sorry. that was never my intention it just sounded to me like you guys's own definition of bisexuality sounded a lot like the definition of omnisexuality ; liking all genders. i just wanted to point that out :c
Just for information, I tried Pride Counseling for around 6 months, tried 6 different therapists from their platform and none of them were really LGBT-knowledgable in my opinion. They were indeed LGBT-friendly but I didn't feel any of them were really prepared to deal with gender and sexuality issues (I am non-binary and pan). I did at least 2-3 sessions with each and maybe I was really unlucky but I didn't find any of them were really able to help me. Also bear in mind that even if they say you can have as many sessions as you want per week, therapists I got would only do once a week and some of them did only a half hour or 45 min (instead of an hour as I'm used to). It's not because I had that experience that you mustn't try but I thought I'd mention it just in case
I've heard sometimes that a problem with big companies that hire out therapists ( like pride counseling and better help) is that they hire people who might not be the most educated or qualified, or experienced.
I find it funny that this is still a conversation people are having. Your identity is yours lol. Like I use a whole multitude of words, pan, omni, bi as my desires fluctuate and change. But that’s me. I hope that you get less questions about it and am glad you addressed it though. Thank you xx
@@0Takethoserisks0 bi is attraction to 2 or more genders. so someone can still be bi but be attracted to all genders. bi and pan overlap but are not the same thing. please rewatch the video because clearly you didnt pay attention the first time
@@0Takethoserisks0 wrong. I understand why you would think they are the same thing but they're really not. it's just that a lot of people don't explain it well. bisexuality is attraction to people of the same gender as you and other genders but not all and pansexuality is attraction to anyone regardless of gender. with bisexuals, gender still very much plays a role in their attraction but with pansexuals, gender doesn't play a role in their attraction. they are genderblind.
@@nesie.noodles6541 thats not an accurate definition of bisexual as not all bisexual people are attracted to their own gender. when describing what bisexuality is please just say "attraction to two or more genders"
I like this description of bi that I came across recently. If heterosexual = attracted to different gender/sex, and homosexual = attracted to same gender/sex, then bi = attracted to both 1) different gender/sex and 2) same gender/sex. The label bi does not assume anything about your own sex or gender identity, nor anything about the sex or gender identity that you are attracted to (both different and then same).
You all are so strong. though you may not believe me, you’re still fighting to this day despite everything you been put through, despite what may seem like never ending pain; you’re still here. i’m so proud of you for continuing to push on even if you may feel it’s not much, it truly is. you’re so strong, you’re doing well. keep going. it will eventually get better.
Girl I'm 42 and in 1994 I came out to my parents as Bi but that never really felt right. When people would ask me questions I would simply say "I just see people, not gender" I feel like your explanation of these terms just made my sexuality [
as someone who identifies as ace and pan, it was so nice to see you strike the difference between bisexuality and pansexuality with such clarity. "gender-driven vs. not gender-driven" is a beautiful and concise way to paint the picture that i have never seen used before-- so im definitely gonna steal that ;P especially with my compound ace identity, the not gender-driven part of pansexuality really gels with my asexuality and is a really near and dear part of my identity to me. thank you once again, Shaaba, for being the best
You say you're bi? Then you're bi! Only you can define your attraction!! :3 I personally consider bi to be the umbrella term, being as that it's the base multi-spec attraction, with attraction to 2, or 2+ genders, and then omni, pan, poly, those fall under the bi umbrella since they're also multi-spec attractions, but each have their own unique definition.
I'm bi, and so far I've been attracted to cis and trans men, cis and trans women, and non binary people. Currently more attracted to all women and non-binary people, but only been in a relationship with a cis man. Still bi. 💙💜❤️
For me, gender is not on my list of things I look for in a partner. I want them to be kind, respectful, funny, and just in general ‘get’ me. I don’t care what gender they are, it just doesn’t matter to me! I guess that means I’m pansexual but I tend to say bi because it’s a more well known term in my area of the universe! I don’t experience sexual attraction but I leave that out too. I guess what I’m trying to say is that after searching for so long and worrying so much about my gender and sexual identity, I just don’t care anymore 😂 I’m just queer af lol.
I feel very similar! I'm Demisexual but I've only been in a relationship with a man, but I am PanRomantic at least because I could totally see myself in a relationship with any gender, but I have no idea if I'd be sexually attracted since... well Demisexual means I have to have a love connection to feel sexually attracted. Labels are tricky and aren't always necessary as long as we find community that we can relate to!
Here is my one confusion with pansexuality, I just feel that no matter how you define it, that definition was already included in bisexuality even the idea of non-gender led attraction. I know people feel very strongly about labels and I don't really care how people label themselves but I do feel like some definitions already overlook things that were thought of in bisexuality in the first place.
Yup, that's because it's masking the real history of the term. If you look into the actual history pansexual was first used by people fetishising trans people and then years later when they were called out they said "no, what we mean is bisexuals hate trans people and we are attracted to them" and it stuck with the MOGAI Tumblr crowd. That's how it came to mean "bisexual but not bisexual", this is all revisionist attempts to make everyone feel valid. Most people grow out of their internalised biphobia though.
I started going by pan when the common used definition of bi was "Attracted to men and women only". I didnt (and still don't) care about gender. If I like the person, I like the person. I kept using pan because Pan is the Greek word for all and I never get accused of be transphobic. Although, if the person im talking to doesn't know what pansexual is I'll just say bi. I don't want to teach people about sexuality. They have the internet in their pocket if they really want to know.
sometimes it's nice to have a label that is very specific to how you experience attraction. since bisexuality can cover a lot of things, it can be affirming to identify by a term that's more accurate to your experience with sexuality. for example, i used to use the label omnisexual (attraction to all genders, but taking gender into consideration), but i just say bi now because it's easier. it was really cool to have a label that so closely represented how i felt, and it made it easier to find people like me.
@@cats.cant.contour8812 Honestly it's a huge problem that you even have to switch to using a certain label just to not be called transphobic for having a sexuality. That's horrible.
Also, a funny answer to "what's your sexuality" just popped into my head- "I'm a biweekly-sexual. I'm only sexually attracted to people once every other week (or twice per week, interpret that how you like ;))" LOL.
Omg this cleared so much for me since I'm asexual I have really hard time understanding why people care about the gender or sex of the person there interested in And how could someone how is asexual be anything but pansexual since they (mostly) don't care about sex Also it's hard for me to know if I'm aromantic or panromantic or biromantic or just a confused straight woman I don't feel any sexual attraction so knowing if I'm just interested in someone in a platonic way or in a romantic way is really hard, since like you know what is love? (baby don't hurt me) But I digress, I never understood the difference between pan and bi sexual so thank you for explaining this to me in a way that my dump two brain sells can understand
Wow, if I had to sum up my own sexuality situation it would be this! Asexuality = yes! Confusion = yes! What is love? = yes, yes, yes! I think the only difference for me is I identify as "not straight" because I don't feel a strong connection to any labels other than ace.
It's all hellishly confusing. After years of figuring things out I reached biromantic with bisexual demi/ace...and then I discovered that "aesthetic attraction" exists and now I question everything, because do I wanna be their friend, do I want to date them, do I wanna do the adult funtimes...or do I just think they're pretty and want to stare at them while dreamily sighing. This whole thing is confusing. 🤷 SMH. And if that didn't have me confused enough I still haven't figured my gender out. Fml.
It's all very confusing and your experience is very much familiar to a lot of people. I'm pansexual and my best friend is both asexual and aromatic......and yet we both spent years questioning what felt right for each of us and contemplating a lot of the same labels before figuring out what fit us. Our results were different but the journey was the same. People treat ace and pan as opposites, but when you can't find any evidence that you prefer any specific gender over another, it can be really confusing to tell if you are ACTUALLY experiencing what others consider attraction to begin with or just like all genders equally.
As a confused probably ace and definitely bi person, when I see someone aesthetically pleasing, I find something that (for me) is part of a romantic relationship, such as kissing, holding hands, cuddling and if I could imagine myself doing that with that person, I consider myself attracted to them. That is how I figured out that I was bi. I kept seeing women that I thought, it would be a nice thing to hang out with and kiss that person. It gets tricky when the romantic thing is also something that you do with friends, like what is the difference between a long hug with friends, vs your boyfriend/girlfriend/partner? It is hard to know if that means I’m a very romantic ace and bi person or just an average bi person because I don’t know what other people have going on in their brains, like do other people just get horned up or imagine jumping someone’s bones when they see someone hot? What is sexual attraction? Are people just out in the world getting tingley in their pants?
literally had someone tell me i'm pansexual, then after i explained why i don't identify with that label they got mad at me saying i was telling them they couldn't be pansexual like??? i said why *i* don't think that label fits *me* after they tried to push it on me, then they accuse me of trying to decide how THEY can identify lmao
I once explained to someone that I'm bi and like all genders and they told me I was being biphobic by changing the definition of bisexuality to something it isn't
Personally, I can be attracted to both looks and personality in people, I just don't see the gender as a part of the attraction. They're just a beautiful person. (Very good explanation btw
I identify as bi but i dont think inherently my attraction is different based on gender but within the context of our society im attracted more to people who play with or break gender norms because it means im more likely to be accepted and free to be myself so obviously thats going to be different based on the persons gender. So Im typically more attracted to masc women and fem men (also attracted to nb but they obviously break norms by existing lol)
I agree, gender is such a vague and pointless construct. People are attracted to bodies and personalities, not the gendered boxes society puts those characteristics in
Exactly it always seems like ppl can never tell the definition correctly and it’s really not that damn hard! Bi- you’re attracted to women & men (nothing new) Pan - we’re attracted to women, men & non-binary
@@jessw.6250 This definition is exactly wrong. Did you not hear Shaaba's, two or more. Another definition is being attracted to genders both similar to and different from one's own. I have no issue with any definitions of pansexuality and would not consider it my place to attempt to define another's sexuality. Therefore, please stop trying to define bisexuality, especially in a way that attempts to diminish it.
This all makes PERFECT sense, thank you so so much for this video! The part on your preference being "gender expression-led" was huge to me because I definitely experience that but I was never able to put it into words.
It seems to me like insisting that someone is a particular sexual orientation when they identify as another sexual orientation is not okay. If someone identifies as bi, it's not okay to insist that they are pansexual because you think you know them better. Plenty of bisexual-identified people have attraction rooted in personality and other elements other than gender. Bisexuality is a broad term that encompasses lots of different ways of being attracted to people. Just... you know. Believe people and respect their orientations.
curious- do you ever consider pan a subcategory of bi? like something still specific and distinct, but included in the bisexual definition. (this would not excuse people telling others how to identify- ie. it would be rude/offensive to say "ummm you're not german, you're european")
@@caitie226 I think both pan and bi fall into what is called the multisexual spectrum, which includes all different types of attraction to one or more genders.
Great video! I’m bi and trans, and I get frustrated with people trying to drive a wedge between bi and pan people, while frequently throwing trans people under the bus, when in reality sexuality is complex, gatekeeping sucks, and solidarity throughout the queer community is super important and necessary.
Awesome talk! I'm bisexual and nonbinary, for me personally I always think about it as being attracted to genders the same and different than my own. Which in my case is binary gendered people and nonbinary people
Thank you for the video Shaaba. As a straight Cis frumpy old woman, I’m grateful for the education but must admit, I think I’m going to have to watch this a few times to get it to sink in, but I will keep trying to learn.
Oh my goodness. I felt this in my soul. I'm pan and often get told "Oh, so you're just bi." Nope. No, I am not. I have absolutely nothing against bi people (I even identified as bi for many years before learning the term pan and instantly knowing it better suits me). I just don't feel the term bisexual properly defines me. I really wish people could just respect other people's identities instead of trying to convince them that the terminology they feel comfortable with is wrong.
If anyone wonders why I identify as pan rather than bi, hear me out. I know some people define bi as being attracted to their gender as well as other genders. I'm cool with people defining it however they like in regards to themselves but I personally don't feel comfortable with that definition in relation to me. It feels like smashing every other gender into a single category instead of respecting and admiring the beautiful and unique things about each one. Identifying as pan allows me to recognize all of the glorious differences that can be displayed in all genders while also saying that I think there are awesome and totally hot things about them all. :)
@@lindsayosterhoff2459 I'm sorry If that sounds offensive or anything, but that kinda sounds more like omnisexuel than pan to me. Just thought I should tell you that in case you havent heard of that term yet. If you identify yourself as pan that's obviously fine too tho
@@FennekinBraixen Pansexual is commonly defined as someone who could be attracted to another regardless of their gender. That is exactly what I am. I realize that some define it as someone not really noticing gender but many don't. I don't mind the term omnisexual and I certainly don't mind you bringing this up because you did it so kindly and respectfully but it's just not a term that feels right to me. It doesn't bother me if people identify me that way though because the people I tend to interact with use the terms pretty interchangeably. It typically bugs me when people refer to me as bi because that term doesn't fit me but pan and omni tend to be so closely related that both are fine with me. :)
I agree with what several people have said about age being a factor in whether you identify as bi or pan. Pan definitely wasn't as much of a thing when I first realized I wasn't straight. Honestly, if I had never met my spouse, I would definitely still say I was bi instead of debating whether that really was the right label for me. I also forgot about the "same and other genders" definition of bi, so that definitely tracks for me too. My spouse is the only non-binary person I've been with, so I've struggled with whether or not I could still be bi despite being with my spouse. I think what settled it for me is my spouse is gender fluid, so basically I get to be with someone who could be a man or a woman depending on the day. That also shuts down the "you'll never be satisfied with a person because you like both men and women" argument because I get to have both in one person.
The head of the LGBT organization at my school once gave a presentation on how bisexual is an outmoded term: this was grad school. Thanks for that, buddy! I want to note that while our hostess is attracted to gender performance that sort of aligns with gender in a certain way, that’s not a requirement of being bisexual - though it’s a perfectly fine way of being bisexual. Being attracted to non-binary people or gender nonconforming people can still be being attracted to someone’s gender as a part of who they are.
I was literally in a new hire "cultural competency" training at an LGBTQ agency, where the training was called "Safer Spaces." As a bisexual, I had to sit there while the instructor stated that "some people" feel the term bisexual is transphobic. Then, he passed out a form titled "LGBT terms" that had terms like "transs*xual" but not bisexual on it. He essentially said that pansexual is just the better term, implying they're the same. Luckily, I'm not shy and called out the nonsense that day. I fought way too damn hard with my fundamentalist parents to be put down in a "safer spaces" training in my own damn community. Nope. I'm still so angry to this day that this is what every employee was being taught from jump! Grr!
Had a similar experience in a "Safe Zone" training at my university. They only gave "attraction to men and women" as the definition for bisexual. I raised my hand, shared the definition I most identify with (shared above, attraction to my gender and other genders), and was promptly told that's "not really a thing" and "a better fit for pansexual"... Way to invalidate my identity during a LGBTQ support training! Ugh, left that group!
I've been on a journey between the two labels. I used bi as a young teen, then in my late teens when I first heard of pan I switched to using that because I was under the misconception that bi did not include transgender and non binary people. It's only now in my late 20s I've really explored the definitions and, as you rightly distinguished, the differences in approaches, that I've realised how gender-expression-led my initial attraction to people is and so I've switched back to bi! I still have the potential to be attracted to *anyone* but the way they carry themselves and express themselves can be a big factor in how I feel towards them. Especially towards mixing and matching typically gendered things, ie make up and nail polish with more masculine styled outfits.
Same to nearly all of that. I also appreciate the history behind bisexual activism as a part fighting for of LGBTQ+ rights, as well as fighting against biphobia (and really phobia against any non-monosexual folks) within the community.
i wish people would stop trying to police other peoples identities or telling them taht they’re something other than they identify as. i identify as queer and dont rly feel comfortable with more specific labels. whenever i tell people this and then proceed to try to explain my sexuality they’ll be like “oh so you’re bi” or “sounds like you’re just a lesbian” and it’s like no!!!! i already told you i’m just queer!! why cant you respect that!
Omg, I've been struggling with knowing the difference for a while now and you've helped me understand better- know I know I'm bi and not pan- thank you so much 💛💛
Finally! When I first discovered what Pansexual was, I was really confused about how it was any different from Bisexual and most people either came up with transphobic answers or just shrugged at me. I came to the same conclusion you did by experiences with my own identity. I always joke that I don't care what's in your pants as long as you're not a jerk. I also noticed that there are different features from people of different genders that I find attractive though. Even then, personality comes first, and even if that person's appearance attracts me, I can immediately get turned off if their personality is utter trash. No Adonis look-alike is gonna get past a first convo with me if we're not vibing personality-wise. It makes the idea of tinder dating or messing around a lot more difficult than people think. Just because I have a bigger pool to draw on, doesn't mean I get more opportunities. I need that pool because I'm picky as hell LOL
Ok, but this though! I've identified as pan for years, and I always explain to people who ask that whatever's in their pants can be a happy surprise, but their personality has to be appealing for my interest to pique. I married my husband because he's a wonderful man that makes me laugh, and his assholery resonates with me on a cosmic scale, but the fact that he identifies as a guy was never a motivator or issue. It's secondary. That being said, I can find individuals of a specific gender attractive, or visually appealing! It's kind of like looking at a piece of art though. Sure, it's pretty to look at, but if I wanted to, say, buy it and take it home with me? Well, it better have some secret depth to it that catches my eye, and makes me feel something beyond a clinical "Oh, pretty!"
Think of attraction as ice cream flavors. Some people only like strawberry ice cream and some only chocolate (straight/gay). For me, a bi person (as myself) would be like Chocolate YES, Strawberry YES, Vanilla YES, while a pan person would just be like ice cream YES. I personally am attracted to men, women and non-binary people, but my attraction feels different towards them based on their gender - not more or less valid - just the way you might like strawberry and chocolate ice cream, but in a different way / for different reasons. So a bi person would look at all new ice cream flavors and individually "decides" whether they like this one and it might happen that they like all of the flavors ever presented (hi!). A pan person would be the equivalent of "I don't care, just give me ice cream, I know I'll love any flavor". In practice, we might be attracted to the same genders, but as Shaaba said: we're coming from different places. (Of course this ignores the point of not being attracted to every single member of a gender, but well, close enough)
Well, this is an amazing response that I think rings more true with me than any other explanation I've seen before! Thank you, and yay for the UA-cam comment section bringing out some real gems :)
I love this explanation! Perhaps a good extension of the metaphor to cover individuals might be that a person can also like a flavor of ice cream but not the way a particular brand makes that flavor! Thus, you can like strawberry ice cream but not a specific scoop of strawberry ice cream you are handed (the same way you can like men, women, and/or non-binary people but not a specific person). Or maybe you don’t usually like strawberry ice cream, but you really like one or two brands of strawberry ice cream, because that’s valid too!
As a Pansexual person, THANK YOU! This is the best video I've seen discussing this topic and doesn't make a "war" between these two sexualities. Queer humans supporting other Queen humans is amazing ❤
As a fellow bi gal, I would love to watch a video of you talking about how society's misogyny and stablished gender roles play a role in your attraction to certain aspects of a person, whether it be physical or personality-wise. For instance, I am more attracted to less "masculine" men because I tend to associate the manly men stereotype with being violent and homophobic (due to where I live and my life experiences), and that even makes me once in a while question my bissexuality, since I tend to be attracted to more "types" of women and nb people than men.
Questioning why we like certain expressions over others and how that relates to patriarchy is something I've definitely been examining in myself, both as a trans person and as a bisexual. On a related note, I find it interesting how society seems to stereotype bisexuals based on their gender. For men, society tends to say they're closeted gay men. For women, they're just experimenting straight women. (I haven't heard anyone comment on non-binary bisexual attraction and that's, I think, because the level of closed mindedness required to make these assumptions about bisexuals prohibits them from remembering non-binary people exist). Anyway, my theory as to why this is is because of the patriarchal belief that all sex is defined by, for the pleasure of, and based around... Men. Patriarchy doing its thing- making closed minded lesbians believe their bisexual girlfriends will leave them for a man and straight women view their bisexual boyfriends as unclean/unsafe (because of their proximity to gay men... Again, these stereotypes are entrenched in some deeply problematic logic). It's a huge problem in the queer and hetero communities and it's all the fault of the patriarchy! Anyway, maybe this was all obvious to you... Your comment just reminded me of this whole problem and I wanted to share. Hope you have a biphobic-free day! 🏳️🌈
I wonder if there is terminology for being attracted to masculinity/femininity/androgyny (gender expression) vs. male/female/non-binary people (gender identity). Shaaba mentioning their attraction to feminine women and masculine men has me thinking about which gender expressions I am attracted to. I would also love to see more videos about this. Personally, I feel similarly to you. Hyper-masculinity doesn’t do it for me at all, but I am attracted to some more masculine presenting women, hyper-feminine women, and in-between too. Interestingly, I think I do value femininity slightly more all across the board of men, women, and non-binary folk. Maybe because it is familiar to me or maybe because I have these negative stereotypes associated with masculinity and tend to see the negatives of masculinity more... it definitely has me thinking about gender identity and wondering why I don’t really like elements of masculinity.
I was scared to click into this but this is the best take on the difference I've ever seen. Thank you so much Shaaba. Peeps attacc pan people because they think that attraction to personality is chosen or intentional. I literally can't control it. It's not being attracted to "perfect" people. Those don't exist. And I don't have a template I look for.
Wow I never thought someone could explain how I feel so accurately! I personally am attracted to both women and non-binary people, but would make an exception if a man fits my very high standards for men 😂 currently dating an amazing man and that doesn't make me any less bi and my preferences are still valid! Thank you so much for that video Shaaba! I'll make sure to show it to everyone who might ask what my sexuality is 🥰
Yes, same here. It's good to hear other people explain their sexuality because I wasn't able to put it in words so far. So, thanks a lot! This really fits well to what I feel and experience
I'm bi too and just watching you over the past few months has been such a huge comfort thing cause I finally feel like I'm home in my sexuality now and I can't begin to tell how much of a confidence boost that is! Love this ❤️
This honestly helped me a lot. It really cements my Pan identity. Because personality has always been number 1 for me. It’s very very rare for me to find someone attractive without a deep and personal connection to them. I visually see people differently based on their personality’s.
The pan label came about ordinarily because some people id-ing as bi felt that the bi label was too restrictive. For me, the bi label feels more fluid and free, so it’s really just personal. The main difference between a bi person and a pan person is that a bi person identifies as bi and a pan person identifies as pan, and no one can tell us our own understanding of ourselves is any different :) 🌈✨
First thing I thought was OMG I love your shirt! It's so cute! 😍💖💖💖 7:50 THANK YOU for bringing that up! I have a friend who is gay, and every guy I date, they think he's "eying them up" so to speak. I try to tell them, just because you're a guy, doesn't mean he wants to date you, everyone has their own "type" of people they like, personality, body, heart, soul, etc. It took a VERY long time for my current partner to feel even remotely OK to be around my friend. It was a learning experience for my partner, and after going through my transition after, what they call "living under a rock", they are now becoming more open to not labeling or expecting things just because someone identifies one way or another. after 16 years of being together, I'm glad there's some baby steps in there somewhere towards some understanding! Lol "Thank you for listening to my TED talk" 👍😁 It was our pleasure! I learn more and more each day about myself and others, and have, so far, just looked at everyone as "human" until they tell me who they are, name and such. This is such an amazing journey we are all on for sure, and I'm happy to be part of it! Thank you Shaaba for your videos, and much love to you as well 👏🤩😊
I've gone back and forth on my own identity, but I definitely find myself more suited for the bi (romantic, in my case) umbrella because I feel that my attraction encompasses more than one gender, but I treat each of them differently and do not crush on people regardless of it. (I actually have a very specific taste in men (kind, patient, smart) and women (confident, observant, leader-type)).
Thank you for this. You explained it really effectively and it did clear up a lot for me. I’ve been trying to learn more about the different identities and orientations since I grew up conservative Christian and your channel and Jamie’s have been really helpful.
This put into words what I feel when I say I’m bi and not pan! I’ve never been able to explain it other than, “I don’t connect with pan like I do bi.” I am attracted to all genders (or at least all I’ve knowingly met), but all differently and to varying extents.
Another branch off of the bi class is Polysexual, which is the attraction to a select group of genders. For example (you already said this in the video 8:45) a Polysexual woman may only be attracted to men and NB's excluding women. Always remember that labels are just that. Labels. You can explore and find what's right for you or you can do the exact opposite and stay unlabeled for however long you may feel (funnily enough there are labels for that including Queer, Questioning and non-confirming). Most labels are umbrella terms! You don't have to find the perfect exact one.
I've realized that I am a good example of this lol. When people ask me "what I am" if I don't feel like explaining I'll just say I'm gay. But a few, more in-depth labels I like for myself are: Biromantic, sexual Lesbian/Trixic (I don't know a whole lot about the trixic label and tend to leave it out of my labels) Demiromantic and Demisexual, Gender fluid Fem (she/they/he) and others. Actually getting it all out of my brain and into written form is kinda weird to look at and I'm kind of getting a little self conscious about it the more I write. But I'm not gonna delete it before posting bc it took me 20 minutes to write B^). But if you do decide to reply with comments that differ from mine all I ask is to be respectful. I will robably cry.
Thank you for this! I am Bi & DemiSexual. So gender factors into my attraction, but I don't feel sexually attracted until I form an emotional connection. I have had many people try and tell me that that makes me pan but I never feel like that label fit me. This gives me more confidence to tell those people to gently sod off and leave my labels to me!
This video is the best explanation I've seen on this topic! A lot of people will explain the differences but not the minutia and will make it sound like pan people disregard gender and bi people completely invalidate non-binary people's existence. This is a very thorough and considerate explanation ! :-)
I am bi and pan at the same time. That has slightly changed in different times of my life but realizing that how I truly am and that there's nothing broken or wrong with me, it really has helped me a lot to understand many things about myself when I was younger and now I can feel my true self in that way so much free. That's the beauty and my love to the LGBTQ+ community.
Thank you for these explanations! I've never really vibed with pan, but always felt a little guilty cause it felt like that's what I *should* identify as. This helps so much though, I feel like I can more comfortably identify as bi with these definitions 🥰
What a wonderful video. Thank you for presenting this material, in this way. My youngest son (23) identifies as pansexual, and has since he was a teenager. To this point, he has only actually felt romantic attraction toward women, and is in a straight relationship with a (cis) woman at present, but he is clear about the fact that he believes he COULD be attracted to anyone of any identity. Your explanation is quite helpful. I'm an old (58) cisgender, heterosexual male, so I appreciate any insights that help me to understand and support those who have a different orientation or identity than I. Keep up the good work.
Honestly, I identify as both. I think I do this because first of all, when I was figuring out my sexuality ‚pan‘ wasn’t a term I knew and second because both descriptions just fit me. I never really cared about gender, it was always about the vibes. But then also I do have gender led attractions as well. I think it can be very complicated and I’m pretty happy with identifying with both. (Also to avoid having to make decisions, which I’m obviously not good at..)
Thank you! So many people don't know the definitions as bi = attracted to two/multiple genders vs pan = attracted regardless of gender. I identify as bi because I am attracted to gender and gender expression and it is a large part of my overall attraction. However, I also can find all genders attractive and so identify as bi but meaning my gender and others.
Yes! all of this yes! as a pan person, I have also struggled with the Pan/Bi debate. but yeah, i read somewhere its about hearts not Parts so thats helped me. Thank you for your Ted talk Lovely Shaaba.
To me I could probably identify as pan, I just happen to resonate more with bi as it's the one I grew up with. I've never felt the need to differentiate pan from bi as it applies to me as although some non-binary people consider themselves agender, some or perhaps most express both genders. I have always seen the beauty in expressing both genders in one person as well to be extremely attractive and not contrary to being attracted to both. It might also be an online and in person thing as the term pan came about online and is intended to be a really nice and specific way of identifying but I was more exploring my sexual identity in places like pride clubs and LGBT+ support groups.
I find this distinction deeply fascinating because most of the bi and/or pan people I knew in grad school explicitly considered the terms synonymous or mostly synonymous and either chose pan because it was more explicitly inclusive of GNC folks or bi because it was more widely understood without education. Do you find that treating them as distinct varies from community to community, or are the people I knew in the minority of bi and pan folks?
Why do you need to tell people they're valid though? Everyone is valid! But it seems incredibly arrogant to TELL people they're valid - like you presume their self esteem is so low they need to be lifted and validated by YOU. It's odd that everyone feels the need to tell people they exist and are valid lol. Yeah - everyone knows already.
the way i like 2 think of it is that even if bi/pan/omni are broadly overlapping in their definitions and outward expressions (how other ppl may percieve you), there are still distinctions (like the ones youve pointed out in this vid) that matter to those who identify under these labels at the end of the day i think solidarity between our communities is so, so important. regardless of all else, bi, pan, omni, poly, etc are all identities that can coexist. calling any one identity transphobic is asinine and doesnt help in the way the person making that claim may think it is
Shaaba, I can always count on you and Jamie to talk openly about subjects surrounding gender and sexuality. Thank you for the education you bring to this platform.
Brilliant video, and I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with people telling you what YOUR identity is. In-fighting about terminology is going to tear the queer community apart. We need to be empowering and uplifting each other - other queer people are not the enemy!
This is exactly what i've been trying to express, thank you! Gender presentation is a part of what I find attractive about people so i don't feel Pan is the right word for me.
Your description at around 9 mins is exactly how I feel. I was convinced that I was pan for the last few years since I heard the term because I have always said that I don't care about gender it's about the person. I identified as bi for years but was then convinced that I was pan after hearing the term. However, as you stated that your preference seems to be more feminine women and less feminine men it struck a cord with me because I am the same. I honestly don't care what your gender is, I got for personality, but I do have preferences when looking at previous partners and who I tend to find attractive.... I am pleased that I can now reclaim my bisexuality and also have the ability to explain why 💜 Much love, thanks
honestly I started watching your videos because I thought I might be bisexual but idk if I'm pan or bi, I'm still pretty young and haven't figured much out yet but this video helped me learn some differences and I'm leaning more towards pansexual but I'm still questioning it all, anyways that was a bit of a rant ;-; but thanks for helping me out :)) edit: just finished the video, I'm pansexual :) thank you very much shaaba
This was so helpful for me not understanding the differens between pan and bi and therefore not noing what I am. (It was also really nice to hear you say that you are not attracted to maskulin women beccose that makes so much sense whif you not being attracted to Jamie when you believed he was a girl.) /Bisexual more than on gender cis-woman
"attraction to personality" is a terrible way to define anything at all :// the implication that non pansexuals are shallow and superficial ppl who experience attraction based only on appearances or gender some other arbitrary metric, rather than personality is,,,,,, bad
also my attraction is mostly physical and I am pan (while after figuring out someones personality can make them unattractive to me it's never why I am attracted to someone)
Thank you for explaining this topic in such a kind and respectful way! I kinda clicked on here expecting some mild panphobia or rude comments but I was really surprised! You explained the differences well and did it all in a very clear and easy-to-understand manner without being rude or judgemental to either side, which was very refreshing. As a Pan person, I liked how you explained the differences and why both identities are completely valid. Personally I found the pansexual label before any of the others and just vibed with it the most as I did my research. I totally agree that we should stop pushing labels on people who have already stated theirs and are comfortable with them. Honestly, just let people be, whether someone identifies as Bi or Pan or something else doesn't really affect anyone other than them, so they should be the only one deciding which label fits best, not someone else, which is something that I think goes for everyone.
I've been on the fence on this for a while, and this really helped. As soon as you described what pan was, it was like a light bulb lit within me. Thank you!! Eve tho I did my own research, ir never really clicked up until this, so yea... Really helped me through that crisis >o
Labels help you understand and communicate with others, but they shouldn't have to confine you to a box. They are just helpful tools to understanding your own experience and sharing that with others.
Third confusing definition - in botany a "bisexual flower" has both male and female parts. Because this is the most common pattern, bisexual flowers are also called "perfect". While I personally quite enjoy this fact...it is a bit mean to imply that other flowers are imperfect for being more specialized ;)
They're directly related though, were called bisexuals because researchers believed we were all intersex. The bi prefix has nothing to do with the number of genders were attracted to
I like the definitions you gave. The cool thing about words is that since their all made up; and we each can have them mean different things to each of us and still be right as they pertain to us. And we can reject the ones that don't have anything to do with us. And what means something to one doesn't invalidate someone else.
Even if you think that someone isn’t using the right definition for themself, I just think it’s best to just let them decide what label they think fits them best lol
This! My gf & I are both attracted to all genders but I identify as pan while she prefers calling herself bi. This doesn't mean that either of us is using the wrong definition, we just feel more comfortable using different terms (and she likes purple while I love pink & blue, but I'm not sure just how much that affected anything? xD xD)
right, and even if it's the wrong label, like for example when a girl figures out she's not bi but a lesbian, it's none of your buisness, if she feels comfortable with the label bi right now than leave her alone, don't say it's the wrong label, if it's actually the wrong label then she will figure it out sooner or later by herself
True!!! As long as it isn't harmful to other lgbt orientations :)
This is so true. To be technically accurate, I’m probably pan. But I grew up in a deep red state, and was thrilled to learn the term bisexual existed (in COLLEGE).
I fought so hard for acceptance as bi, that by the time I learned the term “pan”, “bi” meant so much more to me than an incidental label. I can’t just discard it.
Agree! I think all the labels are great and for sure help a lot of ppl to feel included and themselves, but I think we shouldn’t do the same mistake we did with straight and man and women, to over label things. Like if someone doesn’t want to get labelled that is perfectly fine and we should stan that, instead of labelling them and basically do the same thing as the good old homophobes do. I don’t care what I am, I am me and I am excepted as me, by the one person who I care about. Technically I think I would be Pan nonbi, but I just don’t care, I don’t need to label me „correct“ to be happy. I hope that made sense 👀
“I happen to be in a relationship _right now_ with a man”. Keeping Jamie on his toes.
Lol ikr
Jamie better kick it up a notch if he wants this relationship to last 😳
why do you hate unicorns ? :((
@@helenwinter3320 wouldn't you like to know, weather boy (and i mean that as gender neutrally as possible)
😂😂😂
i feel like so many people need to also realise that a straight woman can be attracted to a transman, it doesnt make her pan, since *hes a man* ; and vice versa for a straight man being attracted to a transwomen
exactly this
Yes! My sister tried to say she realized she was pan because she found this transguy hot... And I was so bummed because I'm a trans man and she didn't even realize what she was saying to me. Luckily, she got it when I pointed it out, but... Yeesh, Sis!
And the same that lesbians can be attracted to trans women and gay men to trans men. It doesn't make you any less gay.
@@micahroberts8383 she can still identify as pan though, depending on how she feels... what if, for example, the trans guy she finds hot looks feminine to some extent, and your sister realized she is attracted to his femininity? (I'm not saying trans guys look feminine, but it is a possibility, just like it is for cis guys)
Your sister has to acknowledge trans men as men (and she probably does), but she doesn't have to find trans men and cis men attractive in the same way, attraction is not something we have control over. The way she finds or doesn't find people attractive doesn't affect your (or that guy's or anyone's) gender identity.
@@conlon4332 mhm exactly!!
"You can't be bi because you're dating a trans man so you're a lesbian!"
"You can't be bi because you're dating a trans man so you're straight!"
"You can't be bi because you're dating a trans man so you're pansexual!"
It's amazing that so many people can have so many different and conflicting ideas about your identity based on one single factor
Lmaooo all these people trying to define something they don't even remotely understand when they can't even grasp the difference between sex and gender and the concept of pronouns XDD
its almost like they have some internalized transphobia🤩✋ the performative activism from BOTH THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY AND ALLIES DOESN'T SHOCK ME💀💀
Bi erasure is bewildering
**incoherent screaming**
right? combination biphobia/transphobia is a hell of a drug lmao
I say I’m bisexual meaning I’m attracted to two groups of people: 1) people with my same gender (women) and 2) people of a gender different to mine (men, nb people, etc)
that's a good definition
Same. :)
yeah i've always just considered the "two" to be "same" and "other"... glad it's not just me lol
the difference is reflected in the flag!
the bisexual blue means same gender, purple is any others, and bi pink means opposite genders!
pansexual blue means masc people, pink means fem people, and yellow means others!
That's exactly how I define my bisexuality. The "2" are people of my gender and people of genders other than mine. I'm excited to see a comment right away that I relate so heavily with!
I consider myself bi. I’m attracted to all genders, but gender is still a factor. The things I’m attracted to in a man is different from what I’m attracted to in a woman and both are different from what I’m attracted to in a non-binary person.
This is honestly the best way I’ve heard it put. I feel the same way as I’m bi too. 💖💜💙
Also how I feel!
Wait that’s how I feel 😮
Same
@@thxu4_the_venom657 Can you elaborate on the difference between bi/pan/omni? Never heard of omni before.
I'd just like to offer another perspective on this issue. I don't feel that my attraction is gender-led, but I usually identify as bi. Why? Because pan was not a term I had ever heard when I came out, I don't have to explain it, and I prefer the bi flag. From my perspective, bisexuality is a rectangle, and pansexuality is a square. Some people like to get hung up on the measurements of our sides and forget that we have the same angles.
Same, I also think bi is more widely known making coming out easier.
I think this is a great explanation! From all that I've seen and read, the only definitions of bi and pan that don't exclude some people from each community are: bi= attraction to 2 or more genders, pan= attraction to all genders. In other words, bi is more broad and pan more specific. Someone attracted to all genders could identity as either or both depending on what is comfortable for them. A lot of bi people experience attraction regardless of gender, and there are also pan people who do feel that gender plays a role in their attraction, so that factor can't really be used to separate the identities. There is a lot of overlap and that is okay! For those who fall in the overlapping area, it just comes down to personal reasons for feeling connected to a certain label or group of labels (e.g., it was the one you first adopted, you feel more connected to a certain history/community, you prefer greater specificity, you prefer more broadness/fluidity in the label, you like both because they both describe you, etc.).
oh god yes, same!! Bisexual was the term I knew when I started thinking about this because I did not have access to any sort of community that could tell me about different terms. I learned about Pan far later and I never really vibed with it? So I kind of,,,don't care. I personally don't mind when people use them as synonyms but I don't want to identify as pan simply because of my past struggles to find a label. Also, I'm shallow and I like the bi colours more
@@sylla_headhunter4725 same “pan” never was me
This. Bisexual was the label that when I came out was the one I identified with. I had these feelings even before I had even heard of bisexuality (sex education really needs to become better). It felt right and I wouldn't change it. In the mean time I also found out that I could also identify as sapio and demi, but it doesn't feel right and all of them can become really confusing. If someone asks I will of course tell them all about it, but if most people will only be confused it will only take away from what I'm trying to get across.
I've heard another definition of bisexual: attraction to genders like your own, and genders unlike your own. 🤷 I'm bi, and that's how I explain it. Either way, we're all valid! 🙏💗💜💙
The only issue I have with this one is the homonormativity, which, tbh, is better than heteronormativity but still problematic. Basically, if a woman is bi and attracted to men and non-binary folks but not women, then this definition doesn't work for her and she is still bi.
Still, it works for a lot of us! So, it could describe an individual's experience as a bisexual without working as a group definition.
@@micahroberts8383 I think this might polysexual. Bi is defined as liking men and women, and poly is in between pan and bi (meaning you're not attracted to every gender, but also not only males and females, and you are attracted to multiple, like your example). However, I'm not bi so I don't know. And as originally stated, we're all valid, so it doesn't matter too much!
I agree with your definition of bisexuality, Miss Naomi. It is the one I use to explain how I am bi. I don't think this invalidates any bi person who isn't attracted to certain genders because the phrase "genders unlike your own" does not explicitly say every gender (though it can mean that for some bi people).
That is usually how I define it for myself as well! But absolutely, however you identify and explain your identity is valid!
@@osheridan bi is not just liking men and women. if you watched the video and actually paid attention you would know that. im sorry if this comes across as rude or something im just tired of having people constantly try to tell me what my identity means.
Telling others what their identity is is a bit silly. I am straight and I have always been. I have no control over it. I only find myself interested in men and attraction to other genders is nonexistent. But just like Shaaba, I recognize other genders and respect other identities. Attraction is very personal and humans basically have no control over who we feel that spark for.
Exactly, people can't tell me I'm not ace because I'm in a straight presenting relationship atm. They don't know what's going on in my head
I think I just have a hard time conceptualising gender-based attraction.
For example if you're only interested in men and no other genders at all. Say you find the most attractive man ever and you enter a happy, loving long-term relationship with him. Now one day this person you're in a relationship comes out as agender or something. He still has the exact same personality and doesn't change anything about his presentation (he looks the same, dresses the same, acts the same, is fine wih he/him pronouns, etc.). All that's changed from your perspective is the gender label and any internal feelings you assume come with that label. Would you then really lose all attraction to him instantly? Would he just go from the most attractive person in the world to not at all attractive? That sounds wild to me.
@@unmanlymanticore3582 same! ive been scared to mention it in case people thought i was invalidating sexualities like lesbian gay and straight but it genuinely does confuse me so much as well
@@cocoacoolness sameeee, except that for me it’s not being in a relationship, it’s just that I can find people attractive. Like, who do people think they are to tell others what their identity is
Jesus’s sugar baby uwu • 78 years ago honestly- the fact that people can't wrap their heads around finding someone attractive but not wantong to have sex with them is mental to me. They've never thought someone was good-looking but not wanted to shag them?
Hii!! A pansexual here.💖💛💙
I identify as a pansexual cis-gender woman NOT because my attraction is based ONLY on the personality but because I like a person regardless his/her/their gender. This doesn't mean that I don't have any estethic preferences.
In my life I experienced that I prefer a person who has both masculine and faminine attitude/style/manners and when I see someone I like I don't ask myself what's the gender because I simply don't care, I only find him/her/them attractive thanks to a mix of things (estethic or not).
There are pansexuals that are different than me and prefer other characteristics instead.
I generally vibe with the definition of bi as "my own gender and different genders". To be honest, I'm not sure that I'm *not* pan, and I don't think I'd be that mad to be labelled with it. But for me bi was the label I discovered first and the label that made me feel understood and whole, so it would feel weird to me to change it.
Also the exact definition of my sexuality would be more like "if I meet this person who is aesthetically pleasing and I like their personality AND they show some sort of romantic interest in me, I may possibly be attracted to them at seemingly random times and levels of intensity. Or I may just want to be left alone to read books."
I love everything about this comment. ❤
As a Biromantic Demisexual this comment so perfectly encapsulates how I feel. Thank you for putting it into words.
@@maidenrohina Same! 🙌
@@maidenrohina hey how would you define biromantic demisexual? If you're comfortable sharing, I only ask because I grew up in a town where you could either be gay, straight or bi, no other options and I'm still working out how I identify. Currently going with biromantic aromantic
@@amelieg246 I'm totally happy to explain, as I know how confusing it can be to figure out and hopefully my explanation isn't even more confusing. So generally I do find some people objectively attractive, either my own gender or a gender different to my own, hence the bi part of Biromantic, but any initial attraction I feel towards them is purely romantic attraction rather then sexual attraction, which is why I feel Biromantic fits best in relation to my attractions. The demisexuality is clearest in two different ways for me one is if I was to imagine a relationship with someone, I would fantasise about going out to a fancy restaurant on a date or staying up late talking about our favourite books etc., where as someone else may fantasise about those same things but also about what they're like in bed (I guess, I wouldn't know) but for me not once does my fantasy even think about sex, it's as if my brain forgets that sex even exists, it's just not something I generally think about. The other part of demisexuality for me is when I am in a relationship, I would say that 85%-90% of the time my brain continues to forget that sex exists unless it is initiated by my partner and then my brain will go 'oh that's right, that's a thing that we enjoy' but it has to actively concentrate on the mood as it is very easy for my brain to get distracted and loose the mood. And then the other 10%-15% of the time my brain will actively be like 'hey remember sex, yeah that exists, and you enjoy it, you should go do that with your partner'. I personally have only ever had those thoughts when I am in a relationship. I hope that was clear, if not I'll happily clarify or answer any other questions. Of course this is my own personal experience and interpretation of the definition of these labels and what suits me.
The reason why I prefer the term bisexual for myself is because my attraction isn't regardless of gender. The attraction I feel toward men and women feel very different, I don't like the same traits in men and women. I haven't explored my attraction toward non binary people but I'm sure I wouldn't mind dating one if I really liked them.
Imagine being arrogant enough to tell someone that you know their identity more than they do. Like, unless the person is confused on the terms they're using, don't act like you know better than them
This happened to me a few weeks back I was accused of having internalised biphobia which is just crazy
I think the difference is asking for input or not. If you’re still confused and you try to explain your attraction and someone tells you some labels that fit that is a lot different than unsolicited ‘advice’ -it’s not even advice- on someone’s sexuality who already is quite certain about their identity.
@@julieannelovesbooks totally! It matters if the person wants the opinion or not
Also, in the end the importance is not the word itself, but the meaning behind it. Words have as much definitions as people that interpret the meaning.
I'd like to add one more perspective on why someone might use "bisexual" while actually being functionally pansexual - age. I came out as bi before there was any real awareness or visible presence of either non-binary people OR the word "pansexual". Even though times and language have changed, I still see "bi" as being perfectly representative of how I feel attraction regardless of gender. And I have a few other reasons for using "bi" or "bi+", as well. 1) Bisexuality is legally recognized in non-discrimination laws where I live. Pansexuality is not. 2) The bi flag looks way better than the pan flag (maybe that's just me being shallow, but it's also why I use the trans flag instead of the non-binary flag - I just prefer the color schemes of the bi and trans flags over the pan and NB flags, and my non-binary identity is a trans identity to me as well, though not all NB people consider themselves to be trans). 3) To me, there is no functional difference between my bisexuality and pansexuality. Mostly they just need to be intelligent and share common values and interests with me more than anything else!
Yeah partly using a certain label because you prefer some FLAG that has been attached to it is pretty shallow (and just weird)
Amethyst Larktree How is that shallow, and why are you being so rude? :/ What an awful impression of your own personality you’re giving.
okay the flag thing is a mood though- functionally i am pan but bi feels more correct to me as a way of describing myself, the flag's a neat bonus
As an enby who came out as bisexual first, i see bisexuality as “attraction to people of the same gender (enbies) and attraction to people of other genders (women, men, agender, etc).” It’s still two groups, just more broad.
And honestly, it’s easier to come out a as bi. Most people my generation and older have No idea what pansexual even means. As a fairly socially anxious person, I just don’t want to go into a several minute long conversation about my identity with a stranger or with a new friend, or a co worker.
I’m getting sick of bisexuals saying they don’t like my flag. Obviously you can have your own opinion. But stating it like it’s an objective fact is just plain rude.
I used to use the “two or more” definition for myself until I found a definition that describes bisexuality as attraction to genders that are “the same/similar and different to your own gender identity” I think it fits my personal experience with my sexuality better that “two or more” and subverts “bi means two” to mean “same and different” instead of “man and woman”.
I can be attracted to any gender but my experience with attraction and the physical and/or personality traits that I’m attracted to changes based on gender (there is overlap though)
Yes! Absolutely. I identify as bisexual and have been attracted to people of all genders, and I find the "same/similar and other" definition to be the one that resonates best with me.
This!! Exactly
Thanks for posting this! I prefer the "bi" label to "pan" - partly because I've been using it since forever - so this explanation feels very close to my heart. My attraction also varies based on the person's gender (sometimes very much so), hence I choose the bi + demi combo over the pansexual label.
wait this is amazing
AAAH i feel so sad thaT YOU GUYS DONT EVEN KNOW THAT OMNISEXUALITY EXISTSSS. WHAT YOURE LOOKING FOR IS OMNISEXUAL, YOU LIKE ALL GENDERS, SINCE YOU SAID U DONT AGREE AND DONT FEEL THAT BEING "BI (2 GENDER) SEXUAL" THEN JUST USE OMNISEXUAL OMG
EDIT: i did not mean to force you out of your own sexuality, im sorry. that was never my intention it just sounded to me like you guys's own definition of bisexuality sounded a lot like the definition of omnisexuality ; liking all genders. i just wanted to point that out :c
Just for information, I tried Pride Counseling for around 6 months, tried 6 different therapists from their platform and none of them were really LGBT-knowledgable in my opinion. They were indeed LGBT-friendly but I didn't feel any of them were really prepared to deal with gender and sexuality issues (I am non-binary and pan). I did at least 2-3 sessions with each and maybe I was really unlucky but I didn't find any of them were really able to help me. Also bear in mind that even if they say you can have as many sessions as you want per week, therapists I got would only do once a week and some of them did only a half hour or 45 min (instead of an hour as I'm used to). It's not because I had that experience that you mustn't try but I thought I'd mention it just in case
Do you think it would have been more helpful if the therapists were LBGT themselves?
I've heard sometimes that a problem with big companies that hire out therapists ( like pride counseling and better help) is that they hire people who might not be the most educated or qualified, or experienced.
I find it funny that this is still a conversation people are having. Your identity is yours lol. Like I use a whole multitude of words, pan, omni, bi as my desires fluctuate and change. But that’s me. I hope that you get less questions about it and am glad you addressed it though. Thank you xx
LOVE THIS SHAABA
Hello underachiever
Ok but don’t we all?
@@Cal15212 holy shit AMAZING pfp
@@nope8083 thanks :)
Linda ela,maravilhosa💞😄
i also relate as a bi guy who prefers all genders
Then u would be pan but they’re the same ting
@@0Takethoserisks0 bi is attraction to 2 or more genders. so someone can still be bi but be attracted to all genders. bi and pan overlap but are not the same thing. please rewatch the video because clearly you didnt pay attention the first time
@@0Takethoserisks0 wrong. I understand why you would think they are the same thing but they're really not. it's just that a lot of people don't explain it well. bisexuality is attraction to people of the same gender as you and other genders but not all and pansexuality is attraction to anyone regardless of gender. with bisexuals, gender still very much plays a role in their attraction but with pansexuals, gender doesn't play a role in their attraction. they are genderblind.
@Yusuf Rehman Thanks for being the exact example of what this video is saying NOT to be.
@@nesie.noodles6541 thats not an accurate definition of bisexual as not all bisexual people are attracted to their own gender. when describing what bisexuality is please just say "attraction to two or more genders"
I like this description of bi that I came across recently. If heterosexual = attracted to different gender/sex, and homosexual = attracted to same gender/sex, then bi = attracted to both 1) different gender/sex and 2) same gender/sex. The label bi does not assume anything about your own sex or gender identity, nor anything about the sex or gender identity that you are attracted to (both different and then same).
You all are so strong. though you may not believe me, you’re still fighting to this day despite everything you been put through, despite what may seem like never ending pain; you’re still here. i’m so proud of you for continuing to push on even if you may feel it’s not much, it truly is. you’re so strong, you’re doing well. keep going. it will eventually get better.
Thank you so much🙏
Thank you so much Prickly ❤️
Thank you!
Keep fighting and struggling and maybe someday you won’t be miserable. What an inspiring message lol
Good day to you, dear cactus friend!
Girl I'm 42 and in 1994 I came out to my parents as Bi but that never really felt right. When people would ask me questions I would simply say "I just see people, not gender" I feel like your explanation of these terms just made my sexuality [
also remember you don’t need to find or identify with a label in order to be valid ! Btw Love you shaaba 😊❤️🏳️🌈
as someone who identifies as ace and pan, it was so nice to see you strike the difference between bisexuality and pansexuality with such clarity. "gender-driven vs. not gender-driven" is a beautiful and concise way to paint the picture that i have never seen used before-- so im definitely gonna steal that ;P especially with my compound ace identity, the not gender-driven part of pansexuality really gels with my asexuality and is a really near and dear part of my identity to me. thank you once again, Shaaba, for being the best
You say you're bi? Then you're bi! Only you can define your attraction!! :3
I personally consider bi to be the umbrella term, being as that it's the base multi-spec attraction, with attraction to 2, or 2+ genders, and then omni, pan, poly, those fall under the bi umbrella since they're also multi-spec attractions, but each have their own unique definition.
I'm bi, and so far I've been attracted to cis and trans men, cis and trans women, and non binary people. Currently more attracted to all women and non-binary people, but only been in a relationship with a cis man. Still bi. 💙💜❤️
I relate so much with all of this! Same here! We're valid ✨
Exactly! Same! 💖💜💙
same
For me, gender is not on my list of things I look for in a partner. I want them to be kind, respectful, funny, and just in general ‘get’ me. I don’t care what gender they are, it just doesn’t matter to me! I guess that means I’m pansexual but I tend to say bi because it’s a more well known term in my area of the universe! I don’t experience sexual attraction but I leave that out too. I guess what I’m trying to say is that after searching for so long and worrying so much about my gender and sexual identity, I just don’t care anymore 😂 I’m just queer af lol.
I feel the same way as you! But, I love that I can make "Panromantic Asexual" into PanCake! I love being a PanCake!
aaah same at this point im pretty sure im ace but what kind of romantic partner do i want? idk and i just decided to stop worrying about it
I feel very similar! I'm Demisexual but I've only been in a relationship with a man, but I am PanRomantic at least because I could totally see myself in a relationship with any gender, but I have no idea if I'd be sexually attracted since... well Demisexual means I have to have a love connection to feel sexually attracted. Labels are tricky and aren't always necessary as long as we find community that we can relate to!
Haha been there. I often just go by queer itself actually. (full thing is aro-spec polyamorous queer (maybe genderqueer?) but still.)
@@laynasnow8550 yas i feel the same way however i wouldn't label myself pan, i just identify as queer cause i don't feel like I have to label myself:)
Here is my one confusion with pansexuality, I just feel that no matter how you define it, that definition was already included in bisexuality even the idea of non-gender led attraction. I know people feel very strongly about labels and I don't really care how people label themselves but I do feel like some definitions already overlook things that were thought of in bisexuality in the first place.
Yup, that's because it's masking the real history of the term. If you look into the actual history pansexual was first used by people fetishising trans people and then years later when they were called out they said "no, what we mean is bisexuals hate trans people and we are attracted to them" and it stuck with the MOGAI Tumblr crowd. That's how it came to mean "bisexual but not bisexual", this is all revisionist attempts to make everyone feel valid. Most people grow out of their internalised biphobia though.
@@Brynwyn123 I mean we still identifying as pan tho. I’m not biphobic and still pan.
I started going by pan when the common used definition of bi was "Attracted to men and women only". I didnt (and still don't) care about gender. If I like the person, I like the person. I kept using pan because Pan is the Greek word for all and I never get accused of be transphobic. Although, if the person im talking to doesn't know what pansexual is I'll just say bi. I don't want to teach people about sexuality. They have the internet in their pocket if they really want to know.
sometimes it's nice to have a label that is very specific to how you experience attraction. since bisexuality can cover a lot of things, it can be affirming to identify by a term that's more accurate to your experience with sexuality. for example, i used to use the label omnisexual (attraction to all genders, but taking gender into consideration), but i just say bi now because it's easier. it was really cool to have a label that so closely represented how i felt, and it made it easier to find people like me.
@@cats.cant.contour8812 Honestly it's a huge problem that you even have to switch to using a certain label just to not be called transphobic for having a sexuality. That's horrible.
Also, a funny answer to "what's your sexuality" just popped into my head- "I'm a biweekly-sexual. I'm only sexually attracted to people once every other week (or twice per week, interpret that how you like ;))" LOL.
COULD YOU IMAGINE 😂x
😂😂😂😂 I now just want someone to use this idea it a sketch!
Sounds like greysexuality
@@alveriya or abrosexuality
I am bisexual. Not pansexual. Sure, I love everyone, but it's my identity and I chose to label it this way. Thank you for your respect.
Omg this cleared so much for me
since I'm asexual I have really hard time understanding why people care about the gender or sex of the person there interested in
And how could someone how is asexual be anything but pansexual since they (mostly) don't care about sex
Also it's hard for me to know if I'm aromantic or panromantic or biromantic or just a confused straight woman
I don't feel any sexual attraction so knowing if I'm just interested in someone in a platonic way or in a romantic way is really hard, since like you know what is love? (baby don't hurt me)
But I digress, I never understood the difference between pan and bi sexual so thank you for explaining this to me in a way that my dump two brain sells can understand
Hi! You could be ace/aro (either one or both) - and pan 🍳 - you are valid!
Wow, if I had to sum up my own sexuality situation it would be this! Asexuality = yes! Confusion = yes! What is love? = yes, yes, yes! I think the only difference for me is I identify as "not straight" because I don't feel a strong connection to any labels other than ace.
It's all hellishly confusing. After years of figuring things out I reached biromantic with bisexual demi/ace...and then I discovered that "aesthetic attraction" exists and now I question everything, because do I wanna be their friend, do I want to date them, do I wanna do the adult funtimes...or do I just think they're pretty and want to stare at them while dreamily sighing. This whole thing is confusing. 🤷 SMH.
And if that didn't have me confused enough I still haven't figured my gender out. Fml.
It's all very confusing and your experience is very much familiar to a lot of people. I'm pansexual and my best friend is both asexual and aromatic......and yet we both spent years questioning what felt right for each of us and contemplating a lot of the same labels before figuring out what fit us. Our results were different but the journey was the same.
People treat ace and pan as opposites, but when you can't find any evidence that you prefer any specific gender over another, it can be really confusing to tell if you are ACTUALLY experiencing what others consider attraction to begin with or just like all genders equally.
As a confused probably ace and definitely bi person, when I see someone aesthetically pleasing, I find something that (for me) is part of a romantic relationship, such as kissing, holding hands, cuddling and if I could imagine myself doing that with that person, I consider myself attracted to them. That is how I figured out that I was bi. I kept seeing women that I thought, it would be a nice thing to hang out with and kiss that person. It gets tricky when the romantic thing is also something that you do with friends, like what is the difference between a long hug with friends, vs your boyfriend/girlfriend/partner?
It is hard to know if that means I’m a very romantic ace and bi person or just an average bi person because I don’t know what other people have going on in their brains, like do other people just get horned up or imagine jumping someone’s bones when they see someone hot? What is sexual attraction? Are people just out in the world getting tingley in their pants?
literally had someone tell me i'm pansexual, then after i explained why i don't identify with that label they got mad at me saying i was telling them they couldn't be pansexual like??? i said why *i* don't think that label fits *me* after they tried to push it on me, then they accuse me of trying to decide how THEY can identify lmao
I once explained to someone that I'm bi and like all genders and they told me I was being biphobic by changing the definition of bisexuality to something it isn't
Personally, I can be attracted to both looks and personality in people, I just don't see the gender as a part of the attraction. They're just a beautiful person.
(Very good explanation btw
I identify as bi but i dont think inherently my attraction is different based on gender but within the context of our society im attracted more to people who play with or break gender norms because it means im more likely to be accepted and free to be myself so obviously thats going to be different based on the persons gender. So Im typically more attracted to masc women and fem men (also attracted to nb but they obviously break norms by existing lol)
I agree, gender is such a vague and pointless construct. People are attracted to bodies and personalities, not the gendered boxes society puts those characteristics in
Exactly it always seems like ppl can never tell the definition correctly and it’s really not that damn hard!
Bi- you’re attracted to women & men (nothing new)
Pan - we’re attracted to women, men & non-binary
@@jessw.6250 This definition is exactly wrong. Did you not hear Shaaba's, two or more. Another definition is being attracted to genders both similar to and different from one's own. I have no issue with any definitions of pansexuality and would not consider it my place to attempt to define another's sexuality. Therefore, please stop trying to define bisexuality, especially in a way that attempts to diminish it.
@@jessw.6250 ummm no, bi folks are attracted to nb folks too.
This all makes PERFECT sense, thank you so so much for this video! The part on your preference being "gender expression-led" was huge to me because I definitely experience that but I was never able to put it into words.
It seems to me like insisting that someone is a particular sexual orientation when they identify as another sexual orientation is not okay. If someone identifies as bi, it's not okay to insist that they are pansexual because you think you know them better. Plenty of bisexual-identified people have attraction rooted in personality and other elements other than gender. Bisexuality is a broad term that encompasses lots of different ways of being attracted to people. Just... you know. Believe people and respect their orientations.
PREACH. x
Thank You For The Explanation, I (Mentally) happened flip flopping between the 2 for 2..3...4(?) years!
agree with the title so much. and also please stop telling pans that we’re bi. just stop telling other people who they are
curious- do you ever consider pan a subcategory of bi? like something still specific and distinct, but included in the bisexual definition. (this would not excuse people telling others how to identify- ie. it would be rude/offensive to say "ummm you're not german, you're european")
@@caitie226 not really. I know some people do and that’s okay, i just personally don’t
@@caitie226 I think both pan and bi fall into what is called the multisexual spectrum, which includes all different types of attraction to one or more genders.
@@indieh9 Would you consider heterosexuals and homosexuals who date non-binary people multisexual too? Also, how can bisexuality exclude pansexuals?
@@hayleigh7354 how do you not? The definition of bi is two or more genders, and all pan people are attracted to two or more genders
Great video! I’m bi and trans, and I get frustrated with people trying to drive a wedge between bi and pan people, while frequently throwing trans people under the bus, when in reality sexuality is complex, gatekeeping sucks, and solidarity throughout the queer community is super important and necessary.
Awesome talk! I'm bisexual and nonbinary, for me personally I always think about it as being attracted to genders the same and different than my own. Which in my case is binary gendered people and nonbinary people
Thank you for the video Shaaba. As a straight Cis frumpy old woman, I’m grateful for the education but must admit, I think I’m going to have to watch this a few times to get it to sink in, but I will keep trying to learn.
Oh my goodness. I felt this in my soul. I'm pan and often get told "Oh, so you're just bi." Nope. No, I am not. I have absolutely nothing against bi people (I even identified as bi for many years before learning the term pan and instantly knowing it better suits me). I just don't feel the term bisexual properly defines me.
I really wish people could just respect other people's identities instead of trying to convince them that the terminology they feel comfortable with is wrong.
If anyone wonders why I identify as pan rather than bi, hear me out. I know some people define bi as being attracted to their gender as well as other genders. I'm cool with people defining it however they like in regards to themselves but I personally don't feel comfortable with that definition in relation to me. It feels like smashing every other gender into a single category instead of respecting and admiring the beautiful and unique things about each one. Identifying as pan allows me to recognize all of the glorious differences that can be displayed in all genders while also saying that I think there are awesome and totally hot things about them all. :)
@@lindsayosterhoff2459 I'm sorry If that sounds offensive or anything, but that kinda sounds more like omnisexuel than pan to me. Just thought I should tell you that in case you havent heard of that term yet. If you identify yourself as pan that's obviously fine too tho
@@FennekinBraixen Pansexual is commonly defined as someone who could be attracted to another regardless of their gender. That is exactly what I am. I realize that some define it as someone not really noticing gender but many don't. I don't mind the term omnisexual and I certainly don't mind you bringing this up because you did it so kindly and respectfully but it's just not a term that feels right to me. It doesn't bother me if people identify me that way though because the people I tend to interact with use the terms pretty interchangeably. It typically bugs me when people refer to me as bi because that term doesn't fit me but pan and omni tend to be so closely related that both are fine with me. :)
Same 😊
I feel the same way! 💖
I agree with what several people have said about age being a factor in whether you identify as bi or pan. Pan definitely wasn't as much of a thing when I first realized I wasn't straight.
Honestly, if I had never met my spouse, I would definitely still say I was bi instead of debating whether that really was the right label for me. I also forgot about the "same and other genders" definition of bi, so that definitely tracks for me too. My spouse is the only non-binary person I've been with, so I've struggled with whether or not I could still be bi despite being with my spouse. I think what settled it for me is my spouse is gender fluid, so basically I get to be with someone who could be a man or a woman depending on the day. That also shuts down the "you'll never be satisfied with a person because you like both men and women" argument because I get to have both in one person.
The head of the LGBT organization at my school once gave a presentation on how bisexual is an outmoded term: this was grad school. Thanks for that, buddy! I want to note that while our hostess is attracted to gender performance that sort of aligns with gender in a certain way, that’s not a requirement of being bisexual - though it’s a perfectly fine way of being bisexual. Being attracted to non-binary people or gender nonconforming people can still be being attracted to someone’s gender as a part of who they are.
I was literally in a new hire "cultural competency" training at an LGBTQ agency, where the training was called "Safer Spaces." As a bisexual, I had to sit there while the instructor stated that "some people" feel the term bisexual is transphobic. Then, he passed out a form titled "LGBT terms" that had terms like "transs*xual" but not bisexual on it. He essentially said that pansexual is just the better term, implying they're the same. Luckily, I'm not shy and called out the nonsense that day. I fought way too damn hard with my fundamentalist parents to be put down in a "safer spaces" training in my own damn community. Nope. I'm still so angry to this day that this is what every employee was being taught from jump! Grr!
Had a similar experience in a "Safe Zone" training at my university. They only gave "attraction to men and women" as the definition for bisexual. I raised my hand, shared the definition I most identify with (shared above, attraction to my gender and other genders), and was promptly told that's "not really a thing" and "a better fit for pansexual"... Way to invalidate my identity during a LGBTQ support training! Ugh, left that group!
@@spoonfulofmakeup3007 omg how close minded 🙄
That counselling sounds nice, my therapist just says i dont know anything so ive been trying to change my therapist so sounds fun
sorry you're therapist isn't working for you! really hoping you find a better source of support, wherever that may come from x
I've been on a journey between the two labels. I used bi as a young teen, then in my late teens when I first heard of pan I switched to using that because I was under the misconception that bi did not include transgender and non binary people. It's only now in my late 20s I've really explored the definitions and, as you rightly distinguished, the differences in approaches, that I've realised how gender-expression-led my initial attraction to people is and so I've switched back to bi! I still have the potential to be attracted to *anyone* but the way they carry themselves and express themselves can be a big factor in how I feel towards them. Especially towards mixing and matching typically gendered things, ie make up and nail polish with more masculine styled outfits.
How people carry themselves...yes!!!
Same to nearly all of that. I also appreciate the history behind bisexual activism as a part fighting for of LGBTQ+ rights, as well as fighting against biphobia (and really phobia against any non-monosexual folks) within the community.
i wish people would stop trying to police other peoples identities or telling them taht they’re something other than they identify as.
i identify as queer and dont rly feel comfortable with more specific labels. whenever i tell people this and then proceed to try to explain my sexuality they’ll be like “oh so you’re bi” or “sounds like you’re just a lesbian” and it’s like no!!!! i already told you i’m just queer!! why cant you respect that!
Omg, I've been struggling with knowing the difference for a while now and you've helped me understand better- know I know I'm bi and not pan- thank you so much 💛💛
Finally! When I first discovered what Pansexual was, I was really confused about how it was any different from Bisexual and most people either came up with transphobic answers or just shrugged at me. I came to the same conclusion you did by experiences with my own identity. I always joke that I don't care what's in your pants as long as you're not a jerk. I also noticed that there are different features from people of different genders that I find attractive though. Even then, personality comes first, and even if that person's appearance attracts me, I can immediately get turned off if their personality is utter trash. No Adonis look-alike is gonna get past a first convo with me if we're not vibing personality-wise. It makes the idea of tinder dating or messing around a lot more difficult than people think. Just because I have a bigger pool to draw on, doesn't mean I get more opportunities. I need that pool because I'm picky as hell LOL
Ok, but this though! I've identified as pan for years, and I always explain to people who ask that whatever's in their pants can be a happy surprise, but their personality has to be appealing for my interest to pique. I married my husband because he's a wonderful man that makes me laugh, and his assholery resonates with me on a cosmic scale, but the fact that he identifies as a guy was never a motivator or issue. It's secondary. That being said, I can find individuals of a specific gender attractive, or visually appealing! It's kind of like looking at a piece of art though. Sure, it's pretty to look at, but if I wanted to, say, buy it and take it home with me? Well, it better have some secret depth to it that catches my eye, and makes me feel something beyond a clinical "Oh, pretty!"
Also having that bigger pool means that there’s a lot of stigma from both straight and gay communities.
Why does that seem like demisexuality to me
@@SG-zp4fz No clue. I identify as demiromantic but I don't need a relationship to be sexually attracted to someone.
Think of attraction as ice cream flavors. Some people only like strawberry ice cream and some only chocolate (straight/gay). For me, a bi person (as myself) would be like Chocolate YES, Strawberry YES, Vanilla YES, while a pan person would just be like ice cream YES. I personally am attracted to men, women and non-binary people, but my attraction feels different towards them based on their gender - not more or less valid - just the way you might like strawberry and chocolate ice cream, but in a different way / for different reasons. So a bi person would look at all new ice cream flavors and individually "decides" whether they like this one and it might happen that they like all of the flavors ever presented (hi!). A pan person would be the equivalent of "I don't care, just give me ice cream, I know I'll love any flavor".
In practice, we might be attracted to the same genders, but as Shaaba said: we're coming from different places.
(Of course this ignores the point of not being attracted to every single member of a gender, but well, close enough)
Well, this is an amazing response that I think rings more true with me than any other explanation I've seen before! Thank you, and yay for the UA-cam comment section bringing out some real gems :)
I love this explanation! Perhaps a good extension of the metaphor to cover individuals might be that a person can also like a flavor of ice cream but not the way a particular brand makes that flavor! Thus, you can like strawberry ice cream but not a specific scoop of strawberry ice cream you are handed (the same way you can like men, women, and/or non-binary people but not a specific person). Or maybe you don’t usually like strawberry ice cream, but you really like one or two brands of strawberry ice cream, because that’s valid too!
Yes!! Love this analogy!!
and some are sherbert and sorbe and italian ice
@@elliedillon7040 Oooh, this is excellent!
Ty! I've been having trouble understanding the difference between bi and pan, and this video is very helpful!
As a Pansexual person, THANK YOU! This is the best video I've seen discussing this topic and doesn't make a "war" between these two sexualities. Queer humans supporting other Queen humans is amazing ❤
I really hate when other people try to force labels on others. Good video.
As a fellow bi gal, I would love to watch a video of you talking about how society's misogyny and stablished gender roles play a role in your attraction to certain aspects of a person, whether it be physical or personality-wise. For instance, I am more attracted to less "masculine" men because I tend to associate the manly men stereotype with being violent and homophobic (due to where I live and my life experiences), and that even makes me once in a while question my bissexuality, since I tend to be attracted to more "types" of women and nb people than men.
Questioning why we like certain expressions over others and how that relates to patriarchy is something I've definitely been examining in myself, both as a trans person and as a bisexual.
On a related note, I find it interesting how society seems to stereotype bisexuals based on their gender. For men, society tends to say they're closeted gay men. For women, they're just experimenting straight women. (I haven't heard anyone comment on non-binary bisexual attraction and that's, I think, because the level of closed mindedness required to make these assumptions about bisexuals prohibits them from remembering non-binary people exist).
Anyway, my theory as to why this is is because of the patriarchal belief that all sex is defined by, for the pleasure of, and based around... Men. Patriarchy doing its thing- making closed minded lesbians believe their bisexual girlfriends will leave them for a man and straight women view their bisexual boyfriends as unclean/unsafe (because of their proximity to gay men... Again, these stereotypes are entrenched in some deeply problematic logic). It's a huge problem in the queer and hetero communities and it's all the fault of the patriarchy!
Anyway, maybe this was all obvious to you... Your comment just reminded me of this whole problem and I wanted to share. Hope you have a biphobic-free day! 🏳️🌈
I wonder if there is terminology for being attracted to masculinity/femininity/androgyny (gender expression) vs. male/female/non-binary people (gender identity). Shaaba mentioning their attraction to feminine women and masculine men has me thinking about which gender expressions I am attracted to. I would also love to see more videos about this.
Personally, I feel similarly to you. Hyper-masculinity doesn’t do it for me at all, but I am attracted to some more masculine presenting women, hyper-feminine women, and in-between too. Interestingly, I think I do value femininity slightly more all across the board of men, women, and non-binary folk. Maybe because it is familiar to me or maybe because I have these negative stereotypes associated with masculinity and tend to see the negatives of masculinity more... it definitely has me thinking about gender identity and wondering why I don’t really like elements of masculinity.
I was scared to click into this but this is the best take on the difference I've ever seen.
Thank you so much Shaaba.
Peeps attacc pan people because they think that attraction to personality is chosen or intentional.
I literally can't control it. It's not being attracted to "perfect" people. Those don't exist. And I don't have a template I look for.
Wow I never thought someone could explain how I feel so accurately!
I personally am attracted to both women and non-binary people, but would make an exception if a man fits my very high standards for men 😂 currently dating an amazing man and that doesn't make me any less bi and my preferences are still valid!
Thank you so much for that video Shaaba! I'll make sure to show it to everyone who might ask what my sexuality is 🥰
bless you, glad it helped! x
with the enby being both amab and afab?
@@kaiyodei yup 😊 I do have an overall preference for women*, but honestly I don't mind as much.
THE PENNY DROPPED! I get it now!!! thank you so so much!
Thank you for making this, people need to stop telling others how to identify.
Thank you, Shaaba! That is the first time I've actually understood the difference between the two. Cheers!
I haven’t even watched yet but the title resonates with me majorly. Stop ‘um actually’ing people’s sexualities !!!!
The clearest definitions to me I've seen so far. Thank you!
I'm bi and feel atracted to men, women and nb people too. Just as Shaaba it's very gender and gender expresión related.
Yes, same here. It's good to hear other people explain their sexuality because I wasn't able to put it in words so far. So, thanks a lot! This really fits well to what I feel and experience
then that is trisexual?
ty this is 100% correct. i see so many ppl getting them mixed up
I'm bi too and just watching you over the past few months has been such a huge comfort thing cause I finally feel like I'm home in my sexuality now and I can't begin to tell how much of a confidence boost that is! Love this ❤️
This honestly helped me a lot. It really cements my Pan identity. Because personality has always been number 1 for me. It’s very very rare for me to find someone attractive without a deep and personal connection to them.
I visually see people differently based on their personality’s.
The pan label came about ordinarily because some people id-ing as bi felt that the bi label was too restrictive. For me, the bi label feels more fluid and free, so it’s really just personal. The main difference between a bi person and a pan person is that a bi person identifies as bi and a pan person identifies as pan, and no one can tell us our own understanding of ourselves is any different :) 🌈✨
omg this if my favourite explanation of the difference
@@caitie226 oh awesome! :)
💖💜💙✨💖💛💙
First thing I thought was OMG I love your shirt! It's so cute! 😍💖💖💖
7:50 THANK YOU for bringing that up! I have a friend who is gay, and every guy I date, they think he's "eying them up" so to speak. I try to tell them, just because you're a guy, doesn't mean he wants to date you, everyone has their own "type" of people they like, personality, body, heart, soul, etc. It took a VERY long time for my current partner to feel even remotely OK to be around my friend. It was a learning experience for my partner, and after going through my transition after, what they call "living under a rock", they are now becoming more open to not labeling or expecting things just because someone identifies one way or another. after 16 years of being together, I'm glad there's some baby steps in there somewhere towards some understanding!
Lol "Thank you for listening to my TED talk" 👍😁 It was our pleasure! I learn more and more each day about myself and others, and have, so far, just looked at everyone as "human" until they tell me who they are, name and such. This is such an amazing journey we are all on for sure, and I'm happy to be part of it!
Thank you Shaaba for your videos, and much love to you as well 👏🤩😊
I've gone back and forth on my own identity, but I definitely find myself more suited for the bi (romantic, in my case) umbrella because I feel that my attraction encompasses more than one gender, but I treat each of them differently and do not crush on people regardless of it. (I actually have a very specific taste in men (kind, patient, smart) and women (confident, observant, leader-type)).
Thank you for this. You explained it really effectively and it did clear up a lot for me. I’ve been trying to learn more about the different identities and orientations since I grew up conservative Christian and your channel and Jamie’s have been really helpful.
This put into words what I feel when I say I’m bi and not pan! I’ve never been able to explain it other than, “I don’t connect with pan like I do bi.” I am attracted to all genders (or at least all I’ve knowingly met), but all differently and to varying extents.
Another branch off of the bi class is Polysexual, which is the attraction to a select group of genders. For example (you already said this in the video 8:45) a Polysexual woman may only be attracted to men and NB's excluding women.
Always remember that labels are just that. Labels. You can explore and find what's right for you or you can do the exact opposite and stay unlabeled for however long you may feel (funnily enough there are labels for that including Queer, Questioning and non-confirming). Most labels are umbrella terms! You don't have to find the perfect exact one.
I've realized that I am a good example of this lol. When people ask me "what I am" if I don't feel like explaining I'll just say I'm gay. But a few, more in-depth labels I like for myself are: Biromantic, sexual Lesbian/Trixic (I don't know a whole lot about the trixic label and tend to leave it out of my labels) Demiromantic and Demisexual, Gender fluid Fem (she/they/he) and others. Actually getting it all out of my brain and into written form is kinda weird to look at and I'm kind of getting a little self conscious about it the more I write. But I'm not gonna delete it before posting bc it took me 20 minutes to write B^). But if you do decide to reply with comments that differ from mine all I ask is to be respectful. I will robably cry.
You did such a good job explaining this. Your effort is appreciated.
Very well made video! Thank you for making this and being willing to share.
Thank you for this! I am Bi & DemiSexual. So gender factors into my attraction, but I don't feel sexually attracted until I form an emotional connection. I have had many people try and tell me that that makes me pan but I never feel like that label fit me. This gives me more confidence to tell those people to gently sod off and leave my labels to me!
This video is the best explanation I've seen on this topic! A lot of people will explain the differences but not the minutia and will make it sound like pan people disregard gender and bi people completely invalidate non-binary people's existence. This is a very thorough and considerate explanation ! :-)
I am bi and pan at the same time. That has slightly changed in different times of my life but realizing that how I truly am and that there's nothing broken or wrong with me, it really has helped me a lot to understand many things about myself when I was younger and now I can feel my true self in that way so much free. That's the beauty and my love to the LGBTQ+ community.
Huge thanks for helping me understand myself more :D
Thank you for these explanations! I've never really vibed with pan, but always felt a little guilty cause it felt like that's what I *should* identify as. This helps so much though, I feel like I can more comfortably identify as bi with these definitions 🥰
What a wonderful video. Thank you for presenting this material, in this way. My youngest son (23) identifies as pansexual, and has since he was a teenager. To this point, he has only actually felt romantic attraction toward women, and is in a straight relationship with a (cis) woman at present, but he is clear about the fact that he believes he COULD be attracted to anyone of any identity. Your explanation is quite helpful. I'm an old (58) cisgender, heterosexual male, so I appreciate any insights that help me to understand and support those who have a different orientation or identity than I. Keep up the good work.
Honestly, I identify as both.
I think I do this because first of all, when I was figuring out my sexuality ‚pan‘ wasn’t a term I knew and second because both descriptions just fit me. I never really cared about gender, it was always about the vibes. But then also I do have gender led attractions as well. I think it can be very complicated and I’m pretty happy with identifying with both. (Also to avoid having to make decisions, which I’m obviously not good at..)
Gotta say, loving the comparisons between bisexuality and bicycles. Didn't expect that, but here for it!
Thank you! So many people don't know the definitions as bi = attracted to two/multiple genders vs pan = attracted regardless of gender. I identify as bi because I am attracted to gender and gender expression and it is a large part of my overall attraction. However, I also can find all genders attractive and so identify as bi but meaning my gender and others.
Yes! all of this yes! as a pan person, I have also struggled with the Pan/Bi debate. but yeah, i read somewhere its about hearts not Parts so thats helped me. Thank you for your Ted talk Lovely Shaaba.
To me I could probably identify as pan, I just happen to resonate more with bi as it's the one I grew up with.
I've never felt the need to differentiate pan from bi as it applies to me as although some non-binary people consider themselves agender, some or perhaps most express both genders.
I have always seen the beauty in expressing both genders in one person as well to be extremely attractive and not contrary to being attracted to both.
It might also be an online and in person thing as the term pan came about online and is intended to be a really nice and specific way of identifying but I was more exploring my sexual identity in places like pride clubs and LGBT+ support groups.
I find this distinction deeply fascinating because most of the bi and/or pan people I knew in grad school explicitly considered the terms synonymous or mostly synonymous and either chose pan because it was more explicitly inclusive of GNC folks or bi because it was more widely understood without education. Do you find that treating them as distinct varies from community to community, or are the people I knew in the minority of bi and pan folks?
Hi. As a pansexual person: You are valid and I respect you.
Why do you need to tell people they're valid though? Everyone is valid! But it seems incredibly arrogant to TELL people they're valid - like you presume their self esteem is so low they need to be lifted and validated by YOU. It's odd that everyone feels the need to tell people they exist and are valid lol. Yeah - everyone knows already.
@@amethystlarktree5962 None of that. Just no. I just want to spread the positivity. Everything isn't about me but I can't speak for anyone else.
the way i like 2 think of it is that even if bi/pan/omni are broadly overlapping in their definitions and outward expressions (how other ppl may percieve you), there are still distinctions (like the ones youve pointed out in this vid) that matter to those who identify under these labels
at the end of the day i think solidarity between our communities is so, so important. regardless of all else, bi, pan, omni, poly, etc are all identities that can coexist. calling any one identity transphobic is asinine and doesnt help in the way the person making that claim may think it is
Shaaba, I can always count on you and Jamie to talk openly about subjects surrounding gender and sexuality. Thank you for the education you bring to this platform.
Brilliant video, and I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with people telling you what YOUR identity is. In-fighting about terminology is going to tear the queer community apart. We need to be empowering and uplifting each other - other queer people are not the enemy!
This is exactly what i've been trying to express, thank you! Gender presentation is a part of what I find attractive about people so i don't feel Pan is the right word for me.
Your description at around 9 mins is exactly how I feel.
I was convinced that I was pan for the last few years since I heard the term because I have always said that I don't care about gender it's about the person. I identified as bi for years but was then convinced that I was pan after hearing the term.
However, as you stated that your preference seems to be more feminine women and less feminine men it struck a cord with me because I am the same.
I honestly don't care what your gender is, I got for personality, but I do have preferences when looking at previous partners and who I tend to find attractive....
I am pleased that I can now reclaim my bisexuality and also have the ability to explain why 💜
Much love, thanks
honestly I started watching your videos because I thought I might be bisexual but idk if I'm pan or bi, I'm still pretty young and haven't figured much out yet but this video helped me learn some differences and I'm leaning more towards pansexual but I'm still questioning it all, anyways that was a bit of a rant ;-; but thanks for helping me out :))
edit: just finished the video, I'm pansexual :) thank you very much shaaba
glad it helped my love, and i'm happy you've found a term that you're comfortable with! x
@@shaaba thank you, and I can't believe you replied to my comment heheh :)
This was so helpful for me not understanding the differens between pan and bi and therefore not noing what I am. (It was also really nice to hear you say that you are not attracted to maskulin women beccose that makes so much sense whif you not being attracted to Jamie when you believed he was a girl.)
/Bisexual more than on gender cis-woman
"attraction to personality" is a terrible way to define anything at all :// the implication that non pansexuals are shallow and superficial ppl who experience attraction based only on appearances or gender some other arbitrary metric, rather than personality is,,,,,, bad
also my attraction is mostly physical and I am pan (while after figuring out someones personality can make them unattractive to me it's never why I am attracted to someone)
"teee heee hearts not parts"
Thank you for explaining this topic in such a kind and respectful way! I kinda clicked on here expecting some mild panphobia or rude comments but I was really surprised! You explained the differences well and did it all in a very clear and easy-to-understand manner without being rude or judgemental to either side, which was very refreshing.
As a Pan person, I liked how you explained the differences and why both identities are completely valid. Personally I found the pansexual label before any of the others and just vibed with it the most as I did my research.
I totally agree that we should stop pushing labels on people who have already stated theirs and are comfortable with them. Honestly, just let people be, whether someone identifies as Bi or Pan or something else doesn't really affect anyone other than them, so they should be the only one deciding which label fits best, not someone else, which is something that I think goes for everyone.
That gender-lead/personality-lead explanation is really cool!
as a pan person who kinda doesn't give a damn about personality, I kinda don't like the explanation
I've been on the fence on this for a while, and this really helped. As soon as you described what pan was, it was like a light bulb lit within me. Thank you!! Eve tho I did my own research, ir never really clicked up until this, so yea... Really helped me through that crisis >o
Labels help you understand and communicate with others, but they shouldn't have to confine you to a box. They are just helpful tools to understanding your own experience and sharing that with others.
Ah, Shaaba, wonderfully refreshing video. Fantastic explanation, thank you
Third confusing definition - in botany a "bisexual flower" has both male and female parts. Because this is the most common pattern, bisexual flowers are also called "perfect". While I personally quite enjoy this fact...it is a bit mean to imply that other flowers are imperfect for being more specialized ;)
This might be my favourite random fact I've ever read in a youtube comment section. Thank you :)
They're directly related though, were called bisexuals because researchers believed we were all intersex. The bi prefix has nothing to do with the number of genders were attracted to
I like the definitions you gave. The cool thing about words is that since their all made up; and we each can have them mean different things to each of us and still be right as they pertain to us. And we can reject the ones that don't have anything to do with us. And what means something to one doesn't invalidate someone else.