(These are rough time stamps. I did my best to post them as close as possible. Some terminology may not be entirely correct. I did this to help people skip/jump to the parts they wanted or needed to.) Starts at 8:55 OceanGate’s defense team. 13:38 - 13:51 Explanation of the Hearing, opening statements, and moment of silence. 13:52 - 17:30 Hearing begins, and Factual exhibit 001 18:05 Titan Submersible wreckage found. 55:13 Animation by Coast Guard auxiliarist Gary Marle 57:35 Break Ends & Tony Nissen’s testimony begins. 1:19:37 2nd Break ends, Tony Nissen’s testimony continues. 2:54:46 3rd Break ends, Tony Nissen’s testimony & final questions. 4:21:39 4th Break/Return return from lunch at 5:33:58 Virtual testimony by Bonnie Carl begins. 5:34:18 5th Break ends, Tim Catterson’s testimony begins. 6:48:39 6th Break ends, Tim Catterson’s testimony continues. 8:23:48 Hearing ends for 9/16/2024 9:17:06
It would be nice if congressional hearings were like this. Ask a question and let the witness answer. No grandstanding just get information to eventually make a decision.
This is the military, they don't have limited time for questioning like Congress who have people stonewall to avoid hard questions. The military will let you stare blankly and let your silence be your response
Congressional hearings are basically staged. They already meet behind closed doors and ask the questions they ask in public. Some questions they won't ask again. Sometimes you can see people who are dishonest will have pages of notes with answers already written and they just have to read the answer. That is why they only get 5 minutes. They use them as public lashings and no one ever gets in trouble for info learned. Hillary Clinton is the prime example because the FBI facts verify what she did. She and her team destroyed their blackberry cell phones with hammers. She destroyed even more subpoenaed evidence when she deleted 30 thousand emails and she illegally had a private server which Congress only found out about because Judicial Watch found the email domain and then FOIA requests and court forced her to release it. She got in zero trouble. She should have been in prison because what she did is 50x worse than what trump allegedly did even though he is allowed to declassify anything he wants and did and the FBI staged pictures of boxes tossed around and folders laying around which they finally admitted, quietly, that that was not how they found those boxes and one picture was boxes in a room that wasn't even documents. So yea Congress is a sham and would never have a hearing like this.
@@kellymoses8566everyone knows it's Democrats who grandstand and scream and lie. They are the most debunked congress in history. The Dems knew Hillary Clinton paid for the fake Russia dossier, they knew it was created and they grandstanded and tried to overthrow a elected president. Hope you are ready for 4 more years of Trump and America getting back to peace around the world ,low gas, lower food. The polls all have him up big time. Kamala wasn't even voted to be the nominee. Y'all can't even see she is the puppet of the racist elites.
@@kellymoses8566 democrats aren't any better. Idk why people like you think oh it's just one side, my side is the good one! No, they both have crap and good parts. We just choose whatever one aligns with us the most, but NORMAL people have a mixture and are actually centrists, they just lean to whatever side they feel will represent them best. Stop being an extremist weirdo, take a good long look at both parties and realize that both grandstand and do bs. You're probably just upset because something you supported got shut down, but then when something you hate gets shut down you clap and cheer. Dummy.
Unfortunately, it seems like human nature is its downfall for things like this. We're getting too used to instant gratification. Why watch (what will likely come out to several days' worth) of boring court footage when some guy on TikTok can make a thirty second video and use some smart sounding words? I've followed this incident religiously since the news articles first started coming out and the amount of people still referring to things like the fake transcript that the CG debunked over a year ago is maddening.
Thank you for this comment. And I'm glad CG makes this available for everyone to see and listen in (almost, I'm in Europe) real time. Also, I about had it with the polemics of "Why is there an investigation anyway? Five rich dudes got what they asked for, how is this relevant?". Putting aside that those passengers obviously deserved what they got just for being rich and uneducated on what they signed up for (this is sarcasm!) it is massively important for learning what went wrong, how, why and how it can be avoided that something similar happens ever again. Perhaps it's just my background in working in materials research for almost twenty years, but I'm very curious how those engineers ever thought (or could be convinced) that any of this was a good idea.
As someone who is interested in submersibles, I find this VERY interesting. I hope ALL the hearings are placed on-line. I would like to watch all of them.
I have no interest in subs but I am fascinated by exploration and explorers as well as those who exploit these arenas. Rush being a megalomaniac suffering from Dunning Kruger and PH’s pathological depression is what caused this tragedy. Anyone defending Rush or harping on the “known risks” for “mission specialists” are either really dumb or extra evil. Innovation can be deadly, exploration is not safe but what happened was neither innovative or exploratory - it was a greedy operation put in place to maximize the ego of Rush and he was charming enough to convince a few who gave him the credibility needed to find victims.
I think whoever is saying Mr. Catterson doesn’t know what he’s talking about/lacks expertise is on crack or an OceanGate employee. This man explains perfectly what the standards are in the industry and how Rush deviated from those standards, he explains the importance of certifications and how it works, he explains the shoddy making of the dovetail for the o-ring, he explains the checks made that morning of the fatal dive. You don’t have to be an engineer to know what you’re talking about. This man clearly knows what he’s talking about and the ways Rush failed. His testimony is essential to this investigation.
i think he really struggled with his hearing and misinterpreted a lot of the questions bc he felt awkward asking them to repeat them. He seems to answer the question he thought they asked him based on what he half heard. His testimony was frustrating but i dont think he demonstrated lack of experience or knowledge.
Feed starts at 8:55 for me. 23:44 - OceanGate’s history 45:08 - Detailed overview of OceanGate's last mission 1:00:21 - Animation showing the final descent with chat logs
Mr. Catterson said it exactly. He didn't want to go in the Titan because he knew carbon fibre works well under tension, but not in compression. This is the crux of the whole thing. The carbon fibre was exactly the opposite material that should have been used. Taking a material that is used in aeronautics, applying it to a field which has exactly the opposite forces in play, and expecting things not to go horribly wrong, was asinine. I'm not an expert, but it was an inappropriate material to use, and these people, who apparently were experts, should've known better. It boggles my mind.
@@ludiprice 100% It wasn’t how many trips it could do. Prior to “88” if the Titan lost power/control and it landed on its side it would have been over.
But in the end, he doesn’t seem to believe it was the carbon fiber hull (or the glue/resins keeping the layers together) that broke, but the glue that had it affixed to the Titanium rings (so the issue that caused their deaths wasn’t using Carbon Fiber, it was using two different materials, Titanium and CF, that had to be glued together).
@@DiGreatDestroyer there were so many things wrong with the design and manufacturing of Titan. Just because the glue on the front hull allegedly is what caused the implosion doesn’t mean the carbon fiber was safe. In fact, because it’s so brittle, it gave way and shattered immediately (completely obliterated in milliseconds) as soon as the epoxy adhesive failed. If Rush used titanium for Titan A.) it wouldn’t have shattered under pressure the way the carbon fiber did and B.) they never would’ve had to use epoxy because the body would be made of the same material as the hulls. Because carbon fiber was used, epoxy also had to be used. While the initial assumption that it was the carbon fiber that finally gave out and the wreckage reveals that the front hub was ejected from the rest of the debris, suggesting the fail point was the adhesive, both the epoxy and the carbon fiber being used at all is why Titan was unsafe. Just because the adhesive was the failure and not the carbon fiber doesn’t mean the carbon fiber was safe.
When the one guy being interviewed saying something about not having to get recertification because of similarities and that it can bite you in the butt later, I immediately thought of the Boeing 737 max MCAS debacle.
Right but that's completely irrelevant. Titan wasn't a new model of an existing type of submersible -- it was a completely new thing. In this analogy, Titan is the OG 737-100 from 1965, not the 737-MAX.
Why didn't more of the engineers involved blow the whistle? Many were fired but only that Scottish chap had the integrity to go to OSHA and say this is dangerous. The chief engineer saying he knew the viewport was way under spec but his confidence grew as they took it beyond its limits and it didnt fail, is wild.
Nissen was fired after the model he worked on was scrapped, so he had no knowledge about malpractice (putting costumers on an unsuitable sub). He had no knowledge about the specs of Titan ver 2.0, so he couldn’t make that call.
Because Rush is an abusive narcissist and a billionaire. It’s scary to go up against someone with so much power. He probably convinced all kinds of people his egotistical, delusional and cheap corner cutting was Going To Work Out Fine, or they knew things wouldn’t work out but hoped it wouldn’t come to the worse case scenario.
Who do you blow the whistle to? The dives were in international waters, where no one but your insurance can tell you "no", and Stockton hacked the system by not insuring it. The viewport wasn't under spec. The manufacturer just (reasonably) refused to certify Oceangate's engineering without rigorous testing. And unlike the carbon fiber hull, failure actually would be reliably detectable well in advance; it's not utterly insane to have proceeded with it.
The communication between the operator and the support ship sound like two teenagers with room temperature IQs texting back and forth after school. Absolutely gobsmacking.
Yes agree. I was surprised at how amateurish the communication between the two were. (Edit, actually I shouldn't have been surprised after looking at the rest of Oceangate. Why did I think communications would be professional when everything else was a clown show). 🤔
@@beeble2003 Yeh, it's really silly. They'd have been better served by a 4km reel of twin-core speaker wire or _something_ like that, with the acoustic modem as backup in case they break that wire accidentally. If they'd sprung for some coax, they could have had a proper high speed digital data link, not just voice.
Yet another beautiful example of man’s yearning to explore and overcome the limits/obstacles to do so! OceanGate brought a lot of eyes to the submersible industry, for tragic reasons, but hopefully a few stay and develop an interest, there are still challenges to overcome and feats to achieve here!
Trying to figure out if Nissen knows more than he’s letting on, and is trying to give information without incriminating himself, or if Rush managed his employees like that by design, keep them all isolated in a sense, never let them knows what’s going on, hire them so it looks good on paper while Rush does things his own way, etc etc. I guess time and testimony will tell!!
Oh yeah, no, this guy was Rush’s “crying shoulder” for a reason. Either he was molded into what Rush wanted him to be by eroding this man’s morals or he had no morals to begin with and that’s why he was drawn to Rush.
@@newhorizon4066 How much, though? Unless I missed something, he was fired 4 years before the incident, which took place with a craft he did not participate in the construction of. I'm not here to give the guy a pass, but it's worth mentioning that Rush is the one who nixed the 7-10 inch hull thickness, the extra 6 months to fabricate class 5 titanium domes rather than class 2, and he's also not the one who drove the thing - the very vehicle his business was built around - like a teenager getting behind the wheel for the first time.
The idea that Tony Nissen, as head of engineering, was just some passenger in all of this is just so implausible, especially when considering Lochridge's testimony. His tendency to obfuscate, use facile analogies (such as aircraft classification) and also repeated attempts to make Brian Spencer entirely culpable, is just so suspect as well. Also, his belief that this would have happened even with classification is delusional.
@@beeble2003 Listen to Nissen's testimony carefully, he was fired after the Version 1 hull failed even in his own testimony Nissen admits the real reason he was fired was because two members of the board confronted Rush on the failure of the hull, which was the REAL reason the dives were cancelled, and Rush fired Nissen at that point because Rush wasn't going to fire himself AND Nissen. They were BOTH responsible. They cosplayed at engineering and utterly failed. Then Rush simply changed the hull design slightly and kept using his and Nissen's basic designs and parts for all the rest of it. The only thing Rush changed after Nissen was fired was to make the new hull one inch at a time, cure it, and also include the longitudinal direction into the carbon fiber layout. Also Dave Dyer of APL testified he and Nissen were having fierce arguments about design, material and testing parameters. Nissen didn't even want to share designs to the manufacturier of the Titanium domes and rings, when Dyer shared those designs anyways Nissen got extremely upset and shortly after the OceanGate-APL relation was ended. It is obvious Nissen played a huge part in the disregard for classification and proper engineering/testing. Even going as far to not sharing documents Lochridge needed for his inspection. No Nissen didn't touch the 2nd hull but he was part (director) of creating the designs and parts for it and he was a huge proponent of the way Rush was doing things.
This guy was complicit with everything that went on. He is just as guilty as Stockton. He's trying to come across as a meek unassuming person with no way to control anything around him. Academy Award for acting. David Lochridge's testimony says otherwise.
Nissen seems like he's really pleased with himself. From the first words of his testimony he's tooting his own horn ("Back then I could troubleshoot anything from a toaster to a radar system.."). Dude - Your work contributed to the deaths of 5 people. Keep that in mind.
He’s incapable of the reflection needed to avoid the very crisis we’re dissecting. That’s why Rush chose him and it’s why his testimony is continued hubris. I’m in awe of how a brilliant mind can be so stupid.
NIssen seems just as arrogant as Rush. He simultaneously achieved amazing engineering feats while working for OceanGate and also denied having responsibility for any of the engineering at OG. He appears in the video where the rings were glued to the carbon fiber cylinder, that was his team that was doing the work in house. He turned over an obviously substandard hull to Lochridge expecting Lochridge to sign off on it. I found it interesting that he was A-OK with everything Stockton Rush wanted to do, bragged about being #2 in charge. But after convincing Rush to sever ties with APL and fire Lochridge found himself in a position where he had to sign on the dotted line. All the sudden when it was going to be his signature signing off on the readiness of the vessel he refused to do it. He was all in as long as he wasn't going to be the one who could actually be held responsible. Comes across as a complete slimeball.
@@bees5461 great points. I couldn’t put my finger on his actual responsibilities and now I know why. He was a yes man who decided to not be the bag man.
"Director of Engineering". I do not believe a thing this guy Nissen says. His demeanor and answers make my skin crawl. David Lochridge, on the other hand, comes across as a the real deal.
Only partway in, and super interesting. Thanks CGMB for preparing the 1st two videos - answered a ton of questions right at the beginning. Right now I'm listening to Tony Nissen, and his description of conflicts among the engineers is - well - so familiar.
@@Liminal-Galaxy-System6819 Worked with them. Actually, a big part of the problem was that even though they called themselves "engineers", they mostly had science degrees. The one guy with a proper engineering degree worked as the business manager. Go figure.
@@Liminal-Galaxy-System6819 I hope not! A good question is whether you can call yourself, say, an aeronautical engineer, even though you don't have a degree in that field but do work in the industry. Properly trained engineers have always been a pleasure to work with w.r.t. engineering, but sometimes (not always) come up short on the science side. That's where I come in. Albeit sometimes too late.
Tym Catterson really seems knowledgeable on the subject and explained his point of view very clearly and understandably. I think his explanation on the subs catastrophic failure is the most plausible explanation of all up until now.
What an awful way to lose your husband and child on the same day. And of course the same for all the other families as well. But losing a child is really terrible. Very sobering all around. Thank you Coast Guard for streaming and posting this.
So after around 7 hours (and I'll likely watch all), the short version is Stockton held out a different carrot for each of them and let them think things are gonna be OK if they just believe real hard... No wonder he had no resources left for building a good sub. Like here, he hired a director of engineering, but someone who's not strong enough to be a director but has a strong desire to build. He didn't even let him make decisions and the honest guy just lived with it...
The fact that Nissen answered "well that's an interesting question" when asked why he was hired tells me all I need to know about Oceangate as a company, and gives me a pretty preview of the next ten days of testimony...
Also, please my fellow US people... It is so nice to see you using actual valid units, though meters are marked with small "m". Large M implies mega prefix.
Fact check: 1. Tony Nissen WAS aware that the Titan was going to the Titanic shortly after he was hired in 2016. He was present for the entire manufacturing process at Spencer Composites in 2017, along with Stockton seen parading around in a jacket emblazoned with 'Titanic survey expedition 2018'. 2. Tony 100% knew Brian Spencer is an Engineer. They collaborated together for years. Mr Spencer is a Registered Professional Engineer in CA and NE, has a B.S. Agricultural Eng., M.E. Industrial Eng., M.E. Mechanical Eng., and a Ph.D. in Engineering Mechanics.
Manufacturing a carbon fibre cylinder someone ordered (lenght, diameter, thickness as specified) doesn't make the manufacturer responsible for how someone decides to use the end result. The only way that weasely director of engineering could shift blame is if there was a certification involved in the manufacturing, say they build to specification x which is rated for 5000m depth by an authority. And how could there be cleanliness issues or discussion about covering of the machinery? Didn't anyone think of those things when ordering the damn thing? "We need it to be made in dust-free environment with temperature and moisture control" etc? That is a basic thing in every proper industry, set the rules and validation steps for manufacturing of critical components and systems. Jeez. "Director of Engineering" indeed.. He and Stockton fit together well, both masters of the spin but novices at quality.
@@Sobakaulibaka213 uncontrolled environment. Looks like it’s some small business manufacturing building. Literally a glorified consumer garage 😭😭😭 No respect for the craft whatsoever 😭😭😭
@@Liminal-Galaxy-System6819 Remember: Stockton was a rule-breaker making innovative and efficient use of the funds he deigned to spend on the whole operation!
INTERNAL DELAMINATION - VOID/AIR SPACES in the winding process of the Carbon Fiber. They went to Boeing... WOW, this project was doomed back in 2016? Holly Crud! Even after But the lightning strike... I am shaking my head. The submersible should have been completely dismantled and inspected by ABS, from scratch. But the cost ...
And Stocktonm Rush had wealthy parents. He was cutting corners on safety measures and he had $25M and he didn't want to spend $100,000 for safety/testing and he was constantly pushing time for a return on his investment. Now you four other people killed that effected a lot of other lives while his family is living comfortably because Oceangate was not insured and it was funded by investors that put more into the corporation than he did. Tragic!
@@oliver-peoples there are 2 versions of Titan. The one built that allegedly got struck by lightning, and the one after the lightning strike. The one after the lightning strike used all the same parts as the first Titan, with only the carbon fiber hull being replaced. We now know that the evidence of the Titan debris suggests that it was the glue of the front hull that was the failure point and caused the catastrophic implosion. So the emphasis on this investigation has really focused on the hulls specifically. And the hulls were reused from the first, alleged lighting struck, Titan to the second Titan, which experienced the catastrophic implosion. And no, they never did any formal, certified destructive tests that were overseen by an official agency. Titan getting struck by lightning doesn’t count as a “destructive test”. Mr. Catterson explains pretty well various standardized tests that are done for safety certification purposes, and why agencies oversee these tests to make sure the testing and results are held to the safety standards set forth by other safety agencies and governing bodies. OceanGate did nothing of the sort. They KNEW their product would NEVER pass a single test, and therefore Rush avoided safety inspection, certification and maintenance altogether (ie instead of completely rebuilding Titan after an alleged lighting strike, just changing the carbon fiber hull out and reusing everything else to save time and money).
@@oliver-peoples It turns out, as I understand via the hearing video, that after the lightning strike, the sub was dismantled in order to see all of the damage. As you can see in Beeble2003's response just below, the sub's carbon fiber hull was scrapped and a new one was manufactured. HOWEVER, all of the old parts that could be reused and pieces were reused. EEEK!!!
With the 3 strike rule they espouse: strike 1 - there was some crew change that morning [according to someone’s testimony; I’ve forgotten who just now]; 2/ not able to read the titan on atm [what ever that is]; 3/ descent is faster than it ought to be - and titan confirms having ‘trouble entering PO’ [what ever that is] -- 3 strikes, just minutes into the dive. That man’s hubris is primarily to blame. HOW his hubris was allowed to get this far? I sure hope the investigation addresses some systemic problems.
I was looking forward to hearing Mr. Nissen's testimony, but I cannot listen to the 'Hmm' & lip smacking every time he starts to speak or his constant anecdotes with the, hugely inappropriate smiling & chuckling.....Sir, you need to approach something this, with a little more respect for a) What this occasion is, b) The people on the bench, conducting this & c) The families of the deceased. You're not 'one of them' i.e the officials on the bench, you're a former employee of what, in this case, is the 'Villain' a you should more humble. I'm sorry. I don't like to judge people, but this guy's behaviour was inappropriate.
When talk of the board meetings came up I got Theranos vibes. Meaning that since the conversations went one way, it sounds a bit like no one on the board was technically competent to give any pushback. When the HR accountant lady said that they had someone who was former CG, basically to give legitimacy - I thought she was spot on. Which was better than Theranos since that board had a lot of very high profile people, none of whom seemed to have a clue about medical biology.
Yes. Holmes and Stockton are cut from the exact same cloth. Right down to bloodline lending a credibility their actual skills could not. I’m tempted to call it a very American kind of hubris - where elitism meets Dunning Kruger and shored up by Peter Principle. That we are learning nothing new in the world of engineering reveals how stupid this operation really was. No one with any experience in these fields would have called any of it innovation.
@@jenmdawg I agree it is a very American type of hubris. All of his decision making way informed by the lies of the American Dream and capitalism; it’s the whole reason he was cutting corners to make money. That’s how he was building a competitive market (in his own mind). Capitalism has no morals, and needs none to succeed- that’s why Rush regarded them.
1:26:10 it is so unbelievably tacky that Nissen took this opportunity to brag about something “just so it could be on the record”. It’s hard to believe he is sincere in his condolences to the families of the victims of this engineering incompetence when he’s bragging about things not relevant to the engineering he did on OceanGate, “just so it’s on the record” and cracking jokes and smirking. Like…wow. If this is how he approaches any engineering challenge he should never ever be placed in the position of designing or managing projects that could pose a risk to human life.
Honestly it’s so hard to tell how much is Nissen trying to keep himself from being incriminated and how much is actually Rush’s management style- keep people in the dark, have certain people around so it looks good on paper without them necessarily performing their jobs, like having a Director Of Engineering, but not allowing him to actually do his job, that way it looks good on paper, and could act as a potential scapegoat should Rush need to pull the Plausible Deniability card. Since Rush is dead, he can’t blame the people he hired, so now we have a bunch of OceanGate employees who all only know a little bit about what’s going on. Rush, at this current point in time, seems to discard people once they no longer serve their purpose to him or the project. It does seem like Nissen isn’t 100% innocent, and he does contradict himself a bit (saying certifications don’t prevent accidents and fatalities, and quite aviation, even though when it comes to submersibles, no one has died in 50 years BECAUSE of the standards set by certifications. But then he goes on to say certifications are needed). But I think it’s plausible that he actually doesn’t know a lot, and Rush did that intentionally. Testimony from other OceanGate employees will confirm or deny this. It would be nice to know how much of what Rush was doing was standard for the industry, and how much he was deviating. We already know he was breaking rules- but how much of his management style was rule breaking and deviating. How much of his behavior was red flags, and is that also why he wanted young, inexperienced men in his team? Not just because of how he was building and operating Titan, but how he was managing his business??
@@Liminal-Galaxy-System6819 i agree nissen doesn't know the fullness of what was going on, and that's because stockton just went around him if he thought he wouldn't get the answers he wanted to hear. a lot of this testimony reveals how humans respond to persuasion and manipulation. to me so much of this is about the frailty of our minds and how we begin to question what's true when we are being manipulated. anyone who thinks they'd have responded perfectly is deluding themselves. i highly recommend the episode of "the fifth estate" on this incident. they speak to many people in the industry who tried to intervene before the worst happened, to no avail. i don't think i can post a link but the episode is called "96 hours".
Actually the fact the titan had to be repeatedly opened and dismantled from the front ring to get passengers in and out is probably why it failed at that point. The inner sleeve wasn't a structural element? Wouldn't its removal cause scratches to the CF?
@@Liminal-Galaxy-System6819 From Merriam-Webster: Tic, noun 1. local and habitual spasmodic motion of particular muscles especially of the face: twitching. 2. a frequent usually unconscious quirk of behavior or speech. [Example:] "You know" is a verbal tic.
carbo fiber is a stupid choice, i am no engineer, but i know that repeated cycling of expansion and contraction of carbon fiber at those incredible presures will lead to micro cracking and tearing of the carbon fiber that will enlarge with each dive and eventually lead to catastrophic failure ???
I don't know if anyone has noticed this, but there is a typo on the coast guard slide regarding the Andrea Dorea. the spelling of the vessel is Andrea Doria. The vessel is misspelled on at least two slides.
Just a recommendation - when making titles for a multi-part hearing, it would be helpful if you had "Day 1, Day 2, etc" in the title - not just the date. I was looking for this and had to hope that this was the first one and stop looking for any earlier videos. Playlists are also helpful if that hasn't been done already. Thanks.
I found this by going to their videos and they have every single video that they’ve already done and plan to do for the hearing up. Videos not out yet say “upcoming”.
Truth is the classification of the sub was the last way to effectively shut down the project, instead of working with him and improving the design, they chose to make it as hard as possible. Then this tragedy struck, now this political show occurs? Fingers are pointed and nothing changes? That loophole isn't going away, the titanic is still in international waters. Which now even James Cameron wants to return to.
Well, one has water to arrest the forces at play somewhat, the other does not. Good question though, would have been nice to see it asked and answered.
I commend the USCG for this presentation! I don't know why the NTSB does not ALSO record and allow their investigations to be seen by the public. I know the NTSB DOES NOT ALLOW THEIR INVESTIGATION FINDINGS TO BE USED IN ANY PROSECUTION. Their SOLE purpose is to uncover EVERY factor involved in a particular incident, regardless of where it leads. The NTSB is completely non-aligned, and only works to discover all the verifiable facts of the matter under consideration. I don't know if the USCG is going to institute prosecutorial proceedings against any of the participants or not. I guess time will tell on that score. But since Rush is dead, and he was the primary decision-maker, it's not going to make much difference. Also, there are no assets left at Ocean Gate, so a lawsuit for damages is unlikely to find any money anywhere for compensation possibilities.
The NTSB hearings are live-streamed to the public (they have a UA-cam channel), but not every investigation has a hearing! You can locate preliminary and final investigative reports and public dockets on their website. They don’t let the parties give out investigative information during without permission as it may hamper the investigation, but everything is available to the public when finalized, save for personal information on the involved people. They do also record “b-roll” and post to the public. I am happy the USCG is doing the same, I didn’t know they did this, it’s awesome! I love these kinds of things.
Regardless of what you think of him, Nissin is not someone accustomed to public speaking, or speaking in this sort of environment. He's a scientist (even if a spineless, negligent one) and is accustomed to a particular way of speaking with other dorks and scientists who understand him. He's not a public figure, he hasn't prepared his answers. Of course his heart is racing, this is an intense questioning regarding a terrible situation. He's being questioned by government agents. Anyone would be nervous, especially someone who isn't used to doing this.
"Anyone would be nervous, especially someone who isn't used to doing this." Actually you should say, especially someone who has something to hide, his guilt for example. Public speaking or being a dork has nothing to do with the way he answered questions, especiall the "interesting" ones. This guy is someone who is proud of his own folly/stupidity and does his best to avoid accountability. Sounds familiar, birds of the same feather.
@@newhorizon4066 not sure what you want to hold him accountable for since he had literally almost nothing to do with the submersible that imploded. as was stated many times by both himself and CG officials, he was fired in 2019 before the current iteration of titan, the one that did implode, was made.
@@newhorizon4066 He was fired years before Titan imploded. He was fired before Titan was even built. What do you think he's guilty of? You're literally engaging in prejudice: judging somebody before you know the facts, and using that judgement to guide your interpretation of what he says, instead of using what he says to guide your judgement.
"thats a good question"-- no shit Tony this is a legal hearing and youre being asked questions by a knowledgeable professional. The arrogance is astounding.
That guy Tony.....didn't know Titan was going to the TITAN-ic? It's literally in the name. Also, Stockton had a patch on his jacket that literally said TITANIC on it.
@Liminal-Galaxy-System6819 frightening, listening Nissen. I thought it was me building the titan on the back of my shed . The all thing was DIY job . But the worst was riches people pay so much to risk their life . That amazed me. 😮. Pity for the youngest who did died.
Bonnie Carl seems quite tense (almost robotic) in her demeanour - and many of her answers are short - simply "Yes" or "No", with no additional information added. Not sure if this is nerves (understandable) or if advised to volunteer no information by her legal advisors.
The first guy is in waaaaaayyyy over his skis. Brings no attorney with him which shows how arrogant and stupid he is. It’s like he was just some generalist hacker who knew just enough to get by. This whole operation was low-rent, but at a higher than normal level.
One of the stated goals of these hearings is to provide recommendations to the submersible-building industry on how not to build a sub? Really? The submersible industry/community already knows how to build safe subs. They’ve been doing it for decades. At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter what specific piece of equipment on the Titan failed. If that piece hadn’t failed, some other piece would have failed at some point. OceanGate knowingly made poor decision after poor decision in an effort to produce a sub as quickly and cheaply as possible. The moral of the story wrt Titan is the apparent lack of regulations on the industry. They need to close all the loop holes that OceanGate was able to use to build an unsafe sub and take paying passengers to their death. Safety inspections and classification should be requirements in all cases.
Im telling you, theres something about that first guy. Dudes body language, tone, and apparently “abnormal heart rate”, man is shifty. Gives me some bad vibes. Awkward narcissist I think
I agree also announcing his watch beep and the thing about beating boeing then says I wanted to get that on record. ??? Nobody cared and the look on the guy asking questions face demonstrated it ..he wasn't impressed nor amused
Stockton Rush was egomaniacal and had great hubris. The old saying “pride goeth before a fall” applies here. What fool thinks safety measures are “inconvenient”? Those measures were put in place because people died when things weren’t regulated.
Hang on, the report says they lost communication at 10.47am, Catterson says he got onto the bridge at 9.45 and was told they'd lost communications already?
@@Liminal-Galaxy-System6819 Witness Security, or witness protection. To be in WITSEC means you (and sometimes your family) have been kept under 24/7 protection and surveillance in a secret location by the US marshall service with the assumption that you (and sometimes your family) could be in danger in order to prevent an upcoming testimony in a hearing or court case.
I thought it was odd. I would think that all the DNA would be contaminated. All mixed together with salt water and debris. I also know absolutely nothing about DNA or DNA collection
@@woodswalker45shi26your blood is effectively sea water to start with. In general, you wont "contaminate" dna, but it can degrade. Dna is just a molecule. Dna is not a particularly delicate molecule. labcoats can reproduce a given dna strand using a specific catalyst. When i say specific, i mean specific to that dna molecule. The starting amount of dna to begin replication is low and gets lower every year.
After watching into 90 minutes of this testimony, this gentleman is so far out of his comfort zone it beggars belief. I find it difficult to believe that he claims to know nothing about the primary objective of the project.
Imo it’s so hard to tell how much is him trying to cover his own ass vs Rush managing his employees like that by design. It’s totally plausible imo that Rush hired people on so A.) it looks good on paper and B.) to use them scapegoats if shit hit the fan, but didn’t allow them to actually do their jobs because he’s a control freak and a narcissist. We can assume h me primarily hired young men with no experience so they wouldn’t argue with the way he wanted to build and use Titan, but another possible reason is they wouldn’t know Rush’s management red flags. Having no experience, they wouldn’t know the way things are done in the industry, and how much Rush is deviating. We already know he was breaking rules when it came to the manufacturing and operation of Titan. I highly doubt this rule breaking was exclusive to Titan, and was also how he ran his company. There are personal red flags listening to his testimony- like him saying certifications don’t prevent accidents or fatalities, and using aviation as an example, even though when it comes to submersibles no one has died for FIFTY YEARS *because of* the safety standards put in place by certifications. Regardless of what he knew about OceanGate and the details of Titan, the fact that he echoes Rush’s sentiment about certifications is alarming. What’s unknown is whether Rich eroded this man’s morals and thinking (again, easier to mold/groom young inexperienced men then those who have been doing it for decades) or if Nissen already had a moral failing when it comes to profit/fame over safety that Rush exploited.
(These are rough time stamps. I did my best to post them as close as possible. Some terminology may not be entirely correct. I did this to help people skip/jump to the parts they wanted or needed to.)
Starts at 8:55
OceanGate’s defense team. 13:38 - 13:51
Explanation of the Hearing, opening statements, and moment of silence. 13:52 - 17:30
Hearing begins, and Factual exhibit 001 18:05
Titan Submersible wreckage found. 55:13
Animation by Coast Guard auxiliarist Gary Marle 57:35
Break Ends & Tony Nissen’s testimony begins. 1:19:37
2nd Break ends, Tony Nissen’s testimony continues. 2:54:46
3rd Break ends, Tony Nissen’s testimony & final questions. 4:21:39
4th Break/Return return from lunch at 5:33:58
Virtual testimony by Bonnie Carl begins. 5:34:18
5th Break ends, Tim Catterson’s testimony begins. 6:48:39
6th Break ends, Tim Catterson’s testimony continues. 8:23:48
Hearing ends for 9/16/2024 9:17:06
Thanks for this!
Thank you so much!! It’d be nice if they pinned this so people could use it to bookmark their place!
Thank you!
Thanks!!!
@@Liminal-Galaxy-System6819Chapters would be even nicer.
It would be nice if congressional hearings were like this. Ask a question and let the witness answer. No grandstanding just get information to eventually make a decision.
@@kellymoses8566 Tell all of us you have TDS without telling us....
This is the military, they don't have limited time for questioning like Congress who have people stonewall to avoid hard questions. The military will let you stare blankly and let your silence be your response
Congressional hearings are basically staged. They already meet behind closed doors and ask the questions they ask in public. Some questions they won't ask again. Sometimes you can see people who are dishonest will have pages of notes with answers already written and they just have to read the answer. That is why they only get 5 minutes. They use them as public lashings and no one ever gets in trouble for info learned. Hillary Clinton is the prime example because the FBI facts verify what she did. She and her team destroyed their blackberry cell phones with hammers. She destroyed even more subpoenaed evidence when she deleted 30 thousand emails and she illegally had a private server which Congress only found out about because Judicial Watch found the email domain and then FOIA requests and court forced her to release it. She got in zero trouble. She should have been in prison because what she did is 50x worse than what trump allegedly did even though he is allowed to declassify anything he wants and did and the FBI staged pictures of boxes tossed around and folders laying around which they finally admitted, quietly, that that was not how they found those boxes and one picture was boxes in a room that wasn't even documents. So yea Congress is a sham and would never have a hearing like this.
@@kellymoses8566everyone knows it's Democrats who grandstand and scream and lie. They are the most debunked congress in history. The Dems knew Hillary Clinton paid for the fake Russia dossier, they knew it was created and they grandstanded and tried to overthrow a elected president. Hope you are ready for 4 more years of Trump and America getting back to peace around the world ,low gas, lower food. The polls all have him up big time. Kamala wasn't even voted to be the nominee. Y'all can't even see she is the puppet of the racist elites.
@@kellymoses8566 democrats aren't any better. Idk why people like you think oh it's just one side, my side is the good one! No, they both have crap and good parts. We just choose whatever one aligns with us the most, but NORMAL people have a mixture and are actually centrists, they just lean to whatever side they feel will represent them best. Stop being an extremist weirdo, take a good long look at both parties and realize that both grandstand and do bs. You're probably just upset because something you supported got shut down, but then when something you hate gets shut down you clap and cheer. Dummy.
This is by far the longest episode of Well There’s Your Problem
I keep expecting someone to say "next slide please"
Yay Liam!
I keep seeing people mention this show, what’s it about?
Not enough timber-frames.
@trashfuture
I’m really shocked that there are only 2 comments here, and
Unfortunately, it seems like human nature is its downfall for things like this. We're getting too used to instant gratification. Why watch (what will likely come out to several days' worth) of boring court footage when some guy on TikTok can make a thirty second video and use some smart sounding words?
I've followed this incident religiously since the news articles first started coming out and the amount of people still referring to things like the fake transcript that the CG debunked over a year ago is maddening.
It’s in the live chat all of the comments
Same here..
Thank you for this comment. And I'm glad CG makes this available for everyone to see and listen in (almost, I'm in Europe) real time. Also, I about had it with the polemics of "Why is there an investigation anyway? Five rich dudes got what they asked for, how is this relevant?". Putting aside that those passengers obviously deserved what they got just for being rich and uneducated on what they signed up for (this is sarcasm!) it is massively important for learning what went wrong, how, why and how it can be avoided that something similar happens ever again. Perhaps it's just my background in working in materials research for almost twenty years, but I'm very curious how those engineers ever thought (or could be convinced) that any of this was a good idea.
UA-cam seems to have burried it.
As someone who is interested in submersibles, I find this VERY interesting. I hope ALL the hearings are placed on-line. I would like to watch all of them.
I have no interest in subs but I am fascinated by exploration and explorers as well as those who exploit these arenas. Rush being a megalomaniac suffering from Dunning Kruger and PH’s pathological depression is what caused this tragedy. Anyone defending Rush or harping on the “known risks” for “mission specialists” are either really dumb or extra evil.
Innovation can be deadly, exploration is not safe but what happened was neither innovative or exploratory - it was a greedy operation put in place to maximize the ego of Rush and he was charming enough to convince a few who gave him the credibility needed to find victims.
I'm here for the engineering and physics of it all. This incident has really brought people for so many reasons. That's quite a rare thing, I think.
This is amazing, answering all the questions I’ve had since the disaster.
I think whoever is saying Mr. Catterson doesn’t know what he’s talking about/lacks expertise is on crack or an OceanGate employee. This man explains perfectly what the standards are in the industry and how Rush deviated from those standards, he explains the importance of certifications and how it works, he explains the shoddy making of the dovetail for the o-ring, he explains the checks made that morning of the fatal dive. You don’t have to be an engineer to know what you’re talking about. This man clearly knows what he’s talking about and the ways Rush failed. His testimony is essential to this investigation.
i think he really struggled with his hearing and misinterpreted a lot of the questions bc he felt awkward asking them to repeat them. He seems to answer the question he thought they asked him based on what he half heard. His testimony was frustrating but i dont think he demonstrated lack of experience or knowledge.
Starts at 08:55
Feed starts at 8:55 for me.
23:44 - OceanGate’s history
45:08 - Detailed overview of OceanGate's last mission
1:00:21 - Animation showing the final descent with chat logs
@@DiGreatDestroyer Yeah, they changed the video I think. When it cam out the action started at 16:08.
Shout out to Keith Fawcett for speaking up to ensure he could be heard. 👍
Thank you!
Mr. Catterson said it exactly. He didn't want to go in the Titan because he knew carbon fibre works well under tension, but not in compression. This is the crux of the whole thing. The carbon fibre was exactly the opposite material that should have been used. Taking a material that is used in aeronautics, applying it to a field which has exactly the opposite forces in play, and expecting things not to go horribly wrong, was asinine. I'm not an expert, but it was an inappropriate material to use, and these people, who apparently were experts, should've known better. It boggles my mind.
Makes you wonder, though, if there is a way to lay carbon fiber that works well in compression.
@@Nameorsmthwell we know one way not to do it!!
@@ludiprice 100% It wasn’t how many trips it could do. Prior to “88” if the Titan lost power/control and it landed on its side it would have been over.
But in the end, he doesn’t seem to believe it was the carbon fiber hull (or the glue/resins keeping the layers together) that broke, but the glue that had it affixed to the Titanium rings (so the issue that caused their deaths wasn’t using Carbon Fiber, it was using two different materials, Titanium and CF, that had to be glued together).
@@DiGreatDestroyer there were so many things wrong with the design and manufacturing of Titan. Just because the glue on the front hull allegedly is what caused the implosion doesn’t mean the carbon fiber was safe. In fact, because it’s so brittle, it gave way and shattered immediately (completely obliterated in milliseconds) as soon as the epoxy adhesive failed.
If Rush used titanium for Titan A.) it wouldn’t have shattered under pressure the way the carbon fiber did and B.) they never would’ve had to use epoxy because the body would be made of the same material as the hulls. Because carbon fiber was used, epoxy also had to be used.
While the initial assumption that it was the carbon fiber that finally gave out and the wreckage reveals that the front hub was ejected from the rest of the debris, suggesting the fail point was the adhesive, both the epoxy and the carbon fiber being used at all is why Titan was unsafe. Just because the adhesive was the failure and not the carbon fiber doesn’t mean the carbon fiber was safe.
When the one guy being interviewed saying something about not having to get recertification because of similarities and that it can bite you in the butt later, I immediately thought of the Boeing 737 max MCAS debacle.
Meanwhile, car manufacturers are required to test a sample of every car with each color of seatbelt (if offered).
Right but that's completely irrelevant. Titan wasn't a new model of an existing type of submersible -- it was a completely new thing. In this analogy, Titan is the OG 737-100 from 1965, not the 737-MAX.
Why didn't more of the engineers involved blow the whistle?
Many were fired but only that Scottish chap had the integrity to go to OSHA and say this is dangerous.
The chief engineer saying he knew the viewport was way under spec but his confidence grew as they took it beyond its limits and it didnt fail, is wild.
And OSHA kept putting off an investigation until it was too late.
Because the whistle blowers would be black listed by the industry.
Nissen was fired after the model he worked on was scrapped, so he had no knowledge about malpractice (putting costumers on an unsuitable sub). He had no knowledge about the specs of Titan ver 2.0, so he couldn’t make that call.
Because Rush is an abusive narcissist and a billionaire. It’s scary to go up against someone with so much power. He probably convinced all kinds of people his egotistical, delusional and cheap corner cutting was Going To Work Out Fine, or they knew things wouldn’t work out but hoped it wouldn’t come to the worse case scenario.
Who do you blow the whistle to? The dives were in international waters, where no one but your insurance can tell you "no", and Stockton hacked the system by not insuring it.
The viewport wasn't under spec. The manufacturer just (reasonably) refused to certify Oceangate's engineering without rigorous testing. And unlike the carbon fiber hull, failure actually would be reliably detectable well in advance; it's not utterly insane to have proceeded with it.
The communication between the operator and the support ship sound like two teenagers with room temperature IQs texting back and forth after school. Absolutely gobsmacking.
Yes agree. I was surprised at how amateurish the communication between the two were. (Edit, actually I shouldn't have been surprised after looking at the rest of Oceangate. Why did I think communications would be professional when everything else was a clown show). 🤔
During the Pacific war the US air Force had the same problem. The aircraft pilots would use coms like an online game's VC.
@@Nameorsmth Those guys had an excuse - they were regularly under fire.
You're aware that the acoustic modem only allows very short messages, right? And that it takes multiple seconds to send even a few characters?
@@beeble2003 Yeh, it's really silly. They'd have been better served by a 4km reel of twin-core speaker wire or _something_ like that, with the acoustic modem as backup in case they break that wire accidentally.
If they'd sprung for some coax, they could have had a proper high speed digital data link, not just voice.
Thank you for streaming these hearings, I find submersibles fascinating.
Yet another beautiful example of man’s yearning to explore and overcome the limits/obstacles to do so! OceanGate brought a lot of eyes to the submersible industry, for tragic reasons, but hopefully a few stay and develop an interest, there are still challenges to overcome and feats to achieve here!
Mr.Tym Catterson is a man to be trusted,imo. You can tell he cares. And he knows his stuff.
Looking at the pictures I’ve seen, he seems spot on about a lot of things.
Trying to figure out if Nissen knows more than he’s letting on, and is trying to give information without incriminating himself, or if Rush managed his employees like that by design, keep them all isolated in a sense, never let them knows what’s going on, hire them so it looks good on paper while Rush does things his own way, etc etc. I guess time and testimony will tell!!
Oh yeah, no, this guy was Rush’s “crying shoulder” for a reason. Either he was molded into what Rush wanted him to be by eroding this man’s morals or he had no morals to begin with and that’s why he was drawn to Rush.
Not him trying to read off evidence he hasn’t previously submitted 😭 OceanGate really doesn’t know anything about regulations 🥲
Nissen has something to hide, namely his guilt.
@@newhorizon4066 How much, though? Unless I missed something, he was fired 4 years before the incident, which took place with a craft he did not participate in the construction of. I'm not here to give the guy a pass, but it's worth mentioning that Rush is the one who nixed the 7-10 inch hull thickness, the extra 6 months to fabricate class 5 titanium domes rather than class 2, and he's also not the one who drove the thing - the very vehicle his business was built around - like a teenager getting behind the wheel for the first time.
He is complicit. No doubt about it
The idea that Tony Nissen, as head of engineering, was just some passenger in all of this is just so implausible, especially when considering Lochridge's testimony. His tendency to obfuscate, use facile analogies (such as aircraft classification) and also repeated attempts to make Brian Spencer entirely culpable, is just so suspect as well. Also, his belief that this would have happened even with classification is delusional.
Bear in mind that Nissen was fired five years before the incident. He never touched Titan.
He was blatantly lying through his teeth
@@beeble2003 Listen to Nissen's testimony carefully, he was fired after the Version 1 hull failed even in his own testimony Nissen admits the real reason he was fired was because two members of the board confronted Rush on the failure of the hull, which was the REAL reason the dives were cancelled, and Rush fired Nissen at that point because Rush wasn't going to fire himself AND Nissen. They were BOTH responsible. They cosplayed at engineering and utterly failed. Then Rush simply changed the hull design slightly and kept using his and Nissen's basic designs and parts for all the rest of it. The only thing Rush changed after Nissen was fired was to make the new hull one inch at a time, cure it, and also include the longitudinal direction into the carbon fiber layout. Also Dave Dyer of APL testified he and Nissen were having fierce arguments about design, material and testing parameters. Nissen didn't even want to share designs to the manufacturier of the Titanium domes and rings, when Dyer shared those designs anyways Nissen got extremely upset and shortly after the OceanGate-APL relation was ended. It is obvious Nissen played a huge part in the disregard for classification and proper engineering/testing. Even going as far to not sharing documents Lochridge needed for his inspection. No Nissen didn't touch the 2nd hull but he was part (director) of creating the designs and parts for it and he was a huge proponent of the way Rush was doing things.
As bad as her internet connection was, her decision to quit was that good. It saved her life.
And her career too (vis a vis that of the director of Engineering.)
This guy was complicit with everything that went on. He is just as guilty as Stockton. He's trying to come across as a meek unassuming person with no way to control anything around him. Academy Award for acting. David Lochridge's testimony says otherwise.
Nissen seems like he's really pleased with himself. From the first words of his testimony he's tooting his own horn ("Back then I could troubleshoot anything from a toaster to a radar system.."). Dude - Your work contributed to the deaths of 5 people. Keep that in mind.
He’s incapable of the reflection needed to avoid the very crisis we’re dissecting. That’s why Rush chose him and it’s why his testimony is continued hubris.
I’m in awe of how a brilliant mind can be so stupid.
Extremely arrogant.
He sounds exactly like the kind of person who would work for that ceo
NIssen seems just as arrogant as Rush. He simultaneously achieved amazing engineering feats while working for OceanGate and also denied having responsibility for any of the engineering at OG. He appears in the video where the rings were glued to the carbon fiber cylinder, that was his team that was doing the work in house. He turned over an obviously substandard hull to Lochridge expecting Lochridge to sign off on it. I found it interesting that he was A-OK with everything Stockton Rush wanted to do, bragged about being #2 in charge. But after convincing Rush to sever ties with APL and fire Lochridge found himself in a position where he had to sign on the dotted line. All the sudden when it was going to be his signature signing off on the readiness of the vessel he refused to do it. He was all in as long as he wasn't going to be the one who could actually be held responsible. Comes across as a complete slimeball.
@@bees5461 great points. I couldn’t put my finger on his actual responsibilities and now I know why. He was a yes man who decided to not be the bag man.
They return from lunch at 5:33:58
An hour to eat lunch, sounds about right.
@@DiGreatDestroyerthank you!
Who cares
6:48:28 for the start of the 3rd witness
"Director of Engineering". I do not believe a thing this guy Nissen says. His demeanor and answers make my skin crawl. David Lochridge, on the other hand, comes across as a the real deal.
Only partway in, and super interesting. Thanks CGMB for preparing the 1st two videos - answered a ton of questions right at the beginning. Right now I'm listening to Tony Nissen, and his description of conflicts among the engineers is - well - so familiar.
Are you an engineer or work with engineers? 😮
@@Liminal-Galaxy-System6819 Worked with them. Actually, a big part of the problem was that even though they called themselves "engineers", they mostly had science degrees. The one guy with a proper engineering degree worked as the business manager. Go figure.
@@sk43999 oh wow 💀 is this a common business practice??
@@Liminal-Galaxy-System6819 I hope not! A good question is whether you can call yourself, say, an aeronautical engineer, even though you don't have a degree in that field but do work in the industry.
Properly trained engineers have always been a pleasure to work with w.r.t. engineering, but sometimes (not always) come up short on the science side. That's where I come in. Albeit sometimes too late.
@@sk43999 ohhh I gotcha!! So you essentially have to clean up other’s messes sometimes??
Tym Catterson really seems knowledgeable on the subject and explained his point of view very clearly and understandably. I think his explanation on the subs catastrophic failure is the most plausible explanation of all up until now.
What an awful way to lose your husband and child on the same day. And of course the same for all the other families as well. But losing a child is really terrible. Very sobering all around. Thank you Coast Guard for streaming and posting this.
So after around 7 hours (and I'll likely watch all), the short version is Stockton held out a different carrot for each of them and let them think things are gonna be OK if they just believe real hard...
No wonder he had no resources left for building a good sub.
Like here, he hired a director of engineering, but someone who's not strong enough to be a director but has a strong desire to build. He didn't even let him make decisions and the honest guy just lived with it...
Hmmm… can’t say I’m surprised!! Doesn’t make it any less said though :(
The fact that Nissen answered "well that's an interesting question" when asked why he was hired tells me all I need to know about Oceangate as a company, and gives me a pretty preview of the next ten days of testimony...
@@PABadger13 oh hell yeah!! A dark rabbit hole where we all learn it’s so much worse than we thought 🥲
"the honest guy just lived with it..." which "honest guy"? I must have missed him.
@@PABadger13 "well that's an interesting question" is code phrase for "you're making me squirm."
9:13:10
Mr. Catterson gives his interpretation of the evidence regarding exactly how the Titan submersible imploded.
Also, please my fellow US people... It is so nice to see you using actual valid units, though meters are marked with small "m". Large M implies mega prefix.
Fact check:
1. Tony Nissen WAS aware that the Titan was going to the Titanic shortly after he was hired in 2016. He was present for the entire manufacturing process at Spencer Composites in 2017, along with Stockton seen parading around in a jacket emblazoned with 'Titanic survey expedition 2018'.
2. Tony 100% knew Brian Spencer is an Engineer. They collaborated together for years. Mr Spencer is a Registered Professional Engineer in CA and NE, has a B.S. Agricultural Eng., M.E. Industrial Eng., M.E. Mechanical Eng., and a Ph.D. in Engineering Mechanics.
Is your name Spencer? The design and analysis report from Spencer seemed to be very flawed and an unclean manufacturing environment speaks volumes.
Manufacturing a carbon fibre cylinder someone ordered (lenght, diameter, thickness as specified) doesn't make the manufacturer responsible for how someone decides to use the end result. The only way that weasely director of engineering could shift blame is if there was a certification involved in the manufacturing, say they build to specification x which is rated for 5000m depth by an authority.
And how could there be cleanliness issues or discussion about covering of the machinery? Didn't anyone think of those things when ordering the damn thing? "We need it to be made in dust-free environment with temperature and moisture control" etc? That is a basic thing in every proper industry, set the rules and validation steps for manufacturing of critical components and systems. Jeez. "Director of Engineering" indeed.. He and Stockton fit together well, both masters of the spin but novices at quality.
There is actually a video online of their hanger and installing(glueing)of the ring. Interesting watch.
@@Sobakaulibaka213 uncontrolled environment. Looks like it’s some small business manufacturing building. Literally a glorified consumer garage 😭😭😭 No respect for the craft whatsoever 😭😭😭
Novices at many tests of character, before anything else.
@@Liminal-Galaxy-System6819 Remember: Stockton was a rule-breaker making innovative and efficient use of the funds he deigned to spend on the whole operation!
Absolutely spot on - weasel indeed
INTERNAL DELAMINATION - VOID/AIR SPACES in the winding process of the Carbon Fiber. They went to Boeing... WOW, this project was doomed back in 2016? Holly Crud! Even after But the lightning strike... I am shaking my head. The submersible should have been completely dismantled and inspected by ABS, from scratch. But the cost ...
And Stocktonm Rush had wealthy parents. He was cutting corners on safety measures and he had $25M and he didn't want to spend $100,000 for safety/testing and he was constantly pushing time for a return on his investment. Now you four other people killed that effected a lot of other lives while his family is living comfortably because Oceangate was not insured and it was funded by investors that put more into the corporation than he did. Tragic!
> completely dismantled
can you elaborate? If mean taking off the fore and aft titanium rings as well, that's destructive testing.
@@oliver-peoples there are 2 versions of Titan. The one built that allegedly got struck by lightning, and the one after the lightning strike.
The one after the lightning strike used all the same parts as the first Titan, with only the carbon fiber hull being replaced. We now know that the evidence of the Titan debris suggests that it was the glue of the front hull that was the failure point and caused the catastrophic implosion. So the emphasis on this investigation has really focused on the hulls specifically. And the hulls were reused from the first, alleged lighting struck, Titan to the second Titan, which experienced the catastrophic implosion.
And no, they never did any formal, certified destructive tests that were overseen by an official agency. Titan getting struck by lightning doesn’t count as a “destructive test”. Mr. Catterson explains pretty well various standardized tests that are done for safety certification purposes, and why agencies oversee these tests to make sure the testing and results are held to the safety standards set forth by other safety agencies and governing bodies. OceanGate did nothing of the sort. They KNEW their product would NEVER pass a single test, and therefore Rush avoided safety inspection, certification and maintenance altogether (ie instead of completely rebuilding Titan after an alleged lighting strike, just changing the carbon fiber hull out and reusing everything else to save time and money).
The carbon fibre hull was scrapped after the lightning strike: they made a new one and that became Titan.
@@oliver-peoples It turns out, as I understand via the hearing video, that after the lightning strike, the sub was dismantled in order to see all of the damage. As you can see in Beeble2003's response just below, the sub's carbon fiber hull was scrapped and a new one was manufactured. HOWEVER, all of the old parts that could be reused and pieces were reused. EEEK!!!
This guy's testimony deserves a second listen.
it amazes me how this guy is in charge of engineering yet he takes no responsibility for any of this travesty. He is so full of it . Makes me livid.
With the 3 strike rule they espouse: strike 1 - there was some crew change that morning [according to someone’s testimony; I’ve forgotten who just now]; 2/ not able to read the titan on atm [what ever that is]; 3/ descent is faster than it ought to be - and titan confirms having ‘trouble entering PO’ [what ever that is] -- 3 strikes, just minutes into the dive. That man’s hubris is primarily to blame. HOW his hubris was allowed to get this far? I sure hope the investigation addresses some systemic problems.
They asked Nissen what his qualifications were and he really said "i like the ocean" these people are unserious
They are not serious people - Succession
Stream starts at 8:49
Return from lunch at 5:33:58
Thank you!!
I was looking forward to hearing Mr. Nissen's testimony, but I cannot listen to the 'Hmm' & lip smacking every time he starts to speak or his constant anecdotes with the, hugely inappropriate smiling & chuckling.....Sir, you need to approach something this, with a little more respect for a) What this occasion is, b) The people on the bench, conducting this & c) The families of the deceased. You're not 'one of them' i.e the officials on the bench, you're a former employee of what, in this case, is the 'Villain' a you should more humble.
I'm sorry. I don't like to judge people, but this guy's behaviour was inappropriate.
When talk of the board meetings came up I got Theranos vibes. Meaning that since the conversations went one way, it sounds a bit like no one on the board was technically competent to give any pushback. When the HR accountant lady said that they had someone who was former CG, basically to give legitimacy - I thought she was spot on. Which was better than Theranos since that board had a lot of very high profile people, none of whom seemed to have a clue about medical biology.
Definitely Theranos vibes. Rush said he wanted to be like Elon, which was another red flag.
@@thindigitaloh my god. So it’s unironic, actually 😭😭😭
Yes. Holmes and Stockton are cut from the exact same cloth. Right down to bloodline lending a credibility their actual skills could not. I’m tempted to call it a very American kind of hubris - where elitism meets Dunning Kruger and shored up by Peter Principle.
That we are learning nothing new in the world of engineering reveals how stupid this operation really was. No one with any experience in these fields would have called any of it innovation.
@@jenmdawg I agree it is a very American type of hubris. All of his decision making way informed by the lies of the American Dream and capitalism; it’s the whole reason he was cutting corners to make money. That’s how he was building a competitive market (in his own mind). Capitalism has no morals, and needs none to succeed- that’s why Rush regarded them.
Catterson is great! No paper trail so he's rather humble. But the longer he talked the more I realize the guy is a Macguyver!
1:26:10 it is so unbelievably tacky that Nissen took this opportunity to brag about something “just so it could be on the record”.
It’s hard to believe he is sincere in his condolences to the families of the victims of this engineering incompetence when he’s bragging about things not relevant to the engineering he did on OceanGate, “just so it’s on the record” and cracking jokes and smirking. Like…wow.
If this is how he approaches any engineering challenge he should never ever be placed in the position of designing or managing projects that could pose a risk to human life.
The first guy bragging about beating Boeing “just for the record” really doesn’t come across well at a hearing regarding the deaths of five people.
The way he sounds so flippant when answering the questions. He’s tough to listen to. Such a stark difference between him and Lockridge.
mission specialist here, reporting for duty!
Brian Spencer is getting thrown under the bus a lot here.
Honestly it’s so hard to tell how much is Nissen trying to keep himself from being incriminated and how much is actually Rush’s management style- keep people in the dark, have certain people around so it looks good on paper without them necessarily performing their jobs, like having a Director Of Engineering, but not allowing him to actually do his job, that way it looks good on paper, and could act as a potential scapegoat should Rush need to pull the Plausible Deniability card. Since Rush is dead, he can’t blame the people he hired, so now we have a bunch of OceanGate employees who all only know a little bit about what’s going on. Rush, at this current point in time, seems to discard people once they no longer serve their purpose to him or the project.
It does seem like Nissen isn’t 100% innocent, and he does contradict himself a bit (saying certifications don’t prevent accidents and fatalities, and quite aviation, even though when it comes to submersibles, no one has died in 50 years BECAUSE of the standards set by certifications. But then he goes on to say certifications are needed). But I think it’s plausible that he actually doesn’t know a lot, and Rush did that intentionally. Testimony from other OceanGate employees will confirm or deny this.
It would be nice to know how much of what Rush was doing was standard for the industry, and how much he was deviating. We already know he was breaking rules- but how much of his management style was rule breaking and deviating. How much of his behavior was red flags, and is that also why he wanted young, inexperienced men in his team? Not just because of how he was building and operating Titan, but how he was managing his business??
@@Liminal-Galaxy-System6819 i agree nissen doesn't know the fullness of what was going on, and that's because stockton just went around him if he thought he wouldn't get the answers he wanted to hear.
a lot of this testimony reveals how humans respond to persuasion and manipulation. to me so much of this is about the frailty of our minds and how we begin to question what's true when we are being manipulated. anyone who thinks they'd have responded perfectly is deluding themselves.
i highly recommend the episode of "the fifth estate" on this incident. they speak to many people in the industry who tried to intervene before the worst happened, to no avail. i don't think i can post a link but the episode is called "96 hours".
“Like to learn why stuff breaks.”………yah don’t say.
The lighting strike was almost like a sign to stop right now. Very creepy
Actually the fact the titan had to be repeatedly opened and dismantled from the front ring to get passengers in and out is probably why it failed at that point. The inner sleeve wasn't a structural element? Wouldn't its removal cause scratches to the CF?
The sleeve wasn’t removed to allow passengers. The opening is a separate piece that connects to titanium, not carbon fiber.
"That's a good question" Ummm yeah mate they are all good questions, very good questions that need answering correctly.
Lmaoooo 😂🤣😂🤣
It's just a tic that some people have, while they think about their answer.
@@beeble2003 that’s not even a little bit what a tic is, but okay. It’s just fidgeting.
@@Liminal-Galaxy-System6819 From Merriam-Webster:
Tic, noun
1. local and habitual spasmodic motion of particular muscles especially of the face: twitching.
2. a frequent usually unconscious quirk of behavior or speech. [Example:] "You know" is a verbal tic.
I'd love to have a look through their FEA, is that going to be made public domain as part of the inquiry?
That last guy knows his shit. They should have listened to him.
They did. Zoom in on the guy questioning him's expressions. Respect and attention given.
@@Xuyesi I meant Stockton Mush & company. Had _they_ listened to him there wouldn't be an inquiry today.
His smart watch gave away his nerves
Looking forward to the WTYP episode
carbo fiber is a stupid choice, i am no engineer, but i know that repeated cycling of expansion and contraction of carbon fiber at those incredible presures will lead to micro cracking and tearing of the carbon fiber that will enlarge with each dive and eventually lead to catastrophic failure ???
I don't know if anyone has noticed this, but there is a typo on the coast guard slide regarding the Andrea Dorea. the spelling of the vessel is Andrea Doria. The vessel is misspelled on at least two slides.
So what
Just a recommendation - when making titles for a multi-part hearing, it would be helpful if you had "Day 1, Day 2, etc" in the title - not just the date. I was looking for this and had to hope that this was the first one and stop looking for any earlier videos. Playlists are also helpful if that hasn't been done already. Thanks.
Since it's ongoing hearing, the playlist would likely be available later.
I found this by going to their videos and they have every single video that they’ve already done and plan to do for the hearing up. Videos not out yet say “upcoming”.
Thank you for these details.
Truth is the classification of the sub was the last way to effectively shut down the project, instead of working with him and improving the design, they chose to make it as hard as possible. Then this tragedy struck, now this political show occurs? Fingers are pointed and nothing changes? That loophole isn't going away, the titanic is still in international waters. Which now even James Cameron wants to return to.
Mr engineer #1 is quite a number ...
Hi! I'm not from the US, do you know the reason why the hearing is in Charleston, SC? Just curious. Thank you.
I would love to know that as well!
It's their largest homeport and a base for global operations, training and support--so most of their admin is there, I'd guess.
@@sopicky6612 I see, thank you.
@@sopicky6612 thanks for the info! I can’t believe lil’ ol’ South Carolina has any kind of importance of such significance 😂🤣
That's a good question.
1:26:00 he intriduced a laugh on his "flex"
I love when he refers to the ROV submersible that found the debris as "They showed up huntin' for bear."
So...banging the sub when loading onboard was bad... but banging into the floating ramp was o.k.?🤔
Well, one has water to arrest the forces at play somewhat, the other does not. Good question though, would have been nice to see it asked and answered.
Excellent testimony.
It's 2024, can our military figure out live stream audio?
Proofreading is important.
I commend the USCG for this presentation! I don't know why the NTSB does not ALSO record and allow their investigations to be seen by the public. I know the NTSB DOES NOT ALLOW THEIR INVESTIGATION FINDINGS TO BE USED IN ANY PROSECUTION. Their SOLE purpose is to uncover EVERY factor involved in a particular incident, regardless of where it leads. The NTSB is completely non-aligned, and only works to discover all the verifiable facts of the matter under consideration. I don't know if the USCG is going to institute prosecutorial proceedings against any of the participants or not. I guess time will tell on that score. But since Rush is dead, and he was the primary decision-maker, it's not going to make much difference. Also, there are no assets left at Ocean Gate, so a lawsuit for damages is unlikely to find any money anywhere for compensation possibilities.
The NTSB hearings are live-streamed to the public (they have a UA-cam channel), but not every investigation has a hearing! You can locate preliminary and final investigative reports and public dockets on their website.
They don’t let the parties give out investigative information during without permission as it may hamper the investigation, but everything is available to the public when finalized, save for personal information on the involved people. They do also record “b-roll” and post to the public.
I am happy the USCG is doing the same, I didn’t know they did this, it’s awesome! I love these kinds of things.
I prefer to stand
Okay Mark
The first witness has resentment....alot of it. It's clouding his testimony imo.
Of course he does. Any sane person would.
Regardless of what you think of him, Nissin is not someone accustomed to public speaking, or speaking in this sort of environment. He's a scientist (even if a spineless, negligent one) and is accustomed to a particular way of speaking with other dorks and scientists who understand him. He's not a public figure, he hasn't prepared his answers. Of course his heart is racing, this is an intense questioning regarding a terrible situation. He's being questioned by government agents. Anyone would be nervous, especially someone who isn't used to doing this.
Yes! Don’t judge him for his way of speaking, but the content of his words.
"Anyone would be nervous, especially someone who isn't used to doing this." Actually you should say, especially someone who has something to hide, his guilt for example. Public speaking or being a dork has nothing to do with the way he answered questions, especiall the "interesting" ones. This guy is someone who is proud of his own folly/stupidity and does his best to avoid accountability. Sounds familiar, birds of the same feather.
@@newhorizon4066 not sure what you want to hold him accountable for since he had literally almost nothing to do with the submersible that imploded. as was stated many times by both himself and CG officials, he was fired in 2019 before the current iteration of titan, the one that did implode, was made.
@@newhorizon4066 He was fired years before Titan imploded. He was fired before Titan was even built. What do you think he's guilty of? You're literally engaging in prejudice: judging somebody before you know the facts, and using that judgement to guide your interpretation of what he says, instead of using what he says to guide your judgement.
'It's Brian's fault'! is the defence. lol
It isn’t a defense. He isn’t on trial. This isn’t even a trial.
@@DragonsinGenesisPodcast I know.
Calm and clear...just like the Titanic...
"thats a good question"-- no shit Tony this is a legal hearing and youre being asked questions by a knowledgeable professional. The arrogance is astounding.
That's not arrogance. It's just a reflex reaction that some people give while thinking of what to say.
He's a yes man trying to absolve himself of blame.
That guy Tony.....didn't know Titan was going to the TITAN-ic? It's literally in the name. Also, Stockton had a patch on his jacket that literally said TITANIC on it.
Leaving a comment here so I'm a part of history
What you think of earth so far?
@@Nameorsmth confusing
What do yall think of the case so far??
@Liminal-Galaxy-System6819 frightening, listening Nissen.
I thought it was me building the titan on the back of my shed .
The all thing was DIY job .
But the worst was riches people pay so much to risk their life .
That amazed me. 😮.
Pity for the youngest who did died.
The deeper you go into this rabithole, the more absurd it gets.
Bonnie Carl seems quite tense (almost robotic) in her demeanour - and many of her answers are short - simply "Yes" or "No", with no additional information added. Not sure if this is nerves (understandable) or if advised to volunteer no information by her legal advisors.
I can’t believe they made her a pilot that’s hilarious
Agree. She was in charge of finances but didn know much about the finances at OG. Makes sense.
If OSHA had done their job this could have been avoided.
1:26:09 how wildly inappropriate
What an absolute nob
This wasnt an accident, accident implies no ones to blame.
No i dont think it does. Lol
@@emptiester Umm, no it doesn't
The first guy is in waaaaaayyyy over his skis. Brings no attorney with him which shows how arrogant and stupid he is. It’s like he was just some generalist hacker who knew just enough to get by. This whole operation was low-rent, but at a higher than normal level.
He knew enough to question the project when the FEA didn't square with real data, but not enough to realise what was going on.
One of the stated goals of these hearings is to provide recommendations to the submersible-building industry on how not to build a sub? Really? The submersible industry/community already knows how to build safe subs. They’ve been doing it for decades. At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter what specific piece of equipment on the Titan failed. If that piece hadn’t failed, some other piece would have failed at some point. OceanGate knowingly made poor decision after poor decision in an effort to produce a sub as quickly and cheaply as possible. The moral of the story wrt Titan is the apparent lack of regulations on the industry. They need to close all the loop holes that OceanGate was able to use to build an unsafe sub and take paying passengers to their death. Safety inspections and classification should be requirements in all cases.
Im telling you, theres something about that first guy. Dudes body language, tone, and apparently “abnormal heart rate”, man is shifty. Gives me some bad vibes. Awkward narcissist I think
Came across incredibly smarmy.
That heartrate watch was ridiculous. Why announce it?
Parts of his testimony seemed like he was making a cringey video for a dating website. Too much info.
100% agree. Dude is a prick.
I agree also announcing his watch beep and the thing about beating boeing then says I wanted to get that on record. ??? Nobody cared and the look on the guy asking questions face demonstrated it ..he wasn't impressed nor amused
Stockton Rush was egomaniacal and had great hubris. The old saying “pride goeth before a fall” applies here. What fool thinks safety measures are “inconvenient”? Those measures were put in place because people died when things weren’t regulated.
I know of nothing stronger than a credible witness.
Hang on, the report says they lost communication at 10.47am, Catterson says he got onto the bridge at 9.45 and was told they'd lost communications already?
Is it me or do the two gentlemen testifying sound as though they were brought out of WITSEC to testify?
What’s WITSEC?
@@Liminal-Galaxy-System6819 Witness Protection
@@Liminal-Galaxy-System6819 Witness Security, or witness protection. To be in WITSEC means you (and sometimes your family) have been kept under 24/7 protection and surveillance in a secret location by the US marshall service with the assumption that you (and sometimes your family) could be in danger in order to prevent an upcoming testimony in a hearing or court case.
David Lochridge was under whistleblower protection for ten months. I think his testimony is on another day.
Irredeemable cowardice remains intact even after the loss of life.
Wow this is still ongoing
Lmao, it just started on Monday, Sept. 16 and will go on to Sept. 27!!
Asking mission specialists to pay for dives was a scam.
I am intrigued that they positive ID'd by DNA remains of all 5 victims...
Lots of bone to pick through and sample
Their remains were all packed into the aft dome due to the implosion started at the front.
I thought it was odd. I would think that all the DNA would be contaminated. All mixed together with salt water and debris. I also know absolutely nothing about DNA or DNA collection
@@woodswalker45shi26your blood is effectively sea water to start with. In general, you wont "contaminate" dna, but it can degrade. Dna is just a molecule. Dna is not a particularly delicate molecule.
labcoats can reproduce a given dna strand using a specific catalyst. When i say specific, i mean specific to that dna molecule. The starting amount of dna to begin replication is low and gets lower every year.
@@emptiester thank you for the information/education 🙂
1:04:22 chills
They aren’t even dead yet
SPOILERS!!!!
After watching into 90 minutes of this testimony, this gentleman is so far out of his comfort zone it beggars belief. I find it difficult to believe that he claims to know nothing about the primary objective of the project.
Imo it’s so hard to tell how much is him trying to cover his own ass vs Rush managing his employees like that by design. It’s totally plausible imo that Rush hired people on so A.) it looks good on paper and B.) to use them scapegoats if shit hit the fan, but didn’t allow them to actually do their jobs because he’s a control freak and a narcissist. We can assume h me primarily hired young men with no experience so they wouldn’t argue with the way he wanted to build and use Titan, but another possible reason is they wouldn’t know Rush’s management red flags. Having no experience, they wouldn’t know the way things are done in the industry, and how much Rush is deviating. We already know he was breaking rules when it came to the manufacturing and operation of Titan. I highly doubt this rule breaking was exclusive to Titan, and was also how he ran his company.
There are personal red flags listening to his testimony- like him saying certifications don’t prevent accidents or fatalities, and using aviation as an example, even though when it comes to submersibles no one has died for FIFTY YEARS *because of* the safety standards put in place by certifications. Regardless of what he knew about OceanGate and the details of Titan, the fact that he echoes Rush’s sentiment about certifications is alarming.
What’s unknown is whether Rich eroded this man’s morals and thinking (again, easier to mold/groom young inexperienced men then those who have been doing it for decades) or if Nissen already had a moral failing when it comes to profit/fame over safety that Rush exploited.
Stockton turned himself and passengers into plankton food.
Funny how this guy has no e-mails to back up his story.
basically he was the janitor
This man is infuriating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We need timestamps! Is no one watching this??
Can you please prepare time stamps
go ahead...
Brian Spencer’s got some ‘splainin’ to do.
He's not on the witness list 😭
@@kfiocconoooooooooo 😭😭
@@kfioccoOf course not. Why would they want to talk to the guy who built the hull?
Awesome, now we can go down and see both wrecks.
Pfft 💀💀💀 What will the name of the 3rd vessel be??
@@Liminal-Galaxy-System6819TIT
titanium?😂