I love how the infinite is still possible, just very, very unlikely. It just becomes more hype every time he manages to do another rep. Plus, the red gadoken giving some juggle still lets you do something cool to finish.
Red gadoken might be one of the best changes to a character I've ever seen. -It adds more of his character to his moveset -It is a neat throwback to an older game -It manages to keep the "danfinite" in the game, making it into a sort of balanced infinite -It does not take anything else away from Dan, unlike a frame advantage changes, if anything it is a buff
@@captainmega6310 Actually according to the patch notes, the devs thought that the Danfinite was fine … until they realized that there were more setups into it than they realized.
@@captainmega6310 Unless the game is X-Men vs. Street Fighter. I generally agree with you on infinites and that they also widen the divide between novice and advanced players, but what I’m trying to say is that if there were less setups into the Danfinite, the consequences would have been less severe and the divide not as wide.
Can't stand Justin Wong. He started pissing me off so i thought it was a recent thing with him but even going back to the good ol days he just sounds so full of himself
Well one thing about red fireball is how it does against other fireballs. If you match fireballs against him but he gets a red, it'll beat yours and give him a free juggle and oki.
See, now THIS is how you nerf(?) a character. I like to think that the red fireball is a satsuinohado (not too familiar with the lore, but I think that’s the evil stuff?) kinda thing for Dan. Maybe he is unintentionally harnessing it? Or maybe they just made it pink to match his color scheme, we will never know.
@@riiyaFGC the Shakunetsu is known for having fire properties and doing multiple hits, however Dan's red Gadouken is some kind of pink-ish crimson, pretty much like a lighter tone from Akuma's and Kage's Satsui No Hado
Seeing as Dan accidentally did the Raging Demon in the comics, (though he failed completing it by tripping on a backpack), this red fireball which is a nerf is interesting. Maybe he did do an ultimate improvement.
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one. While I dont like how they changed the grapplers or Cammy, it seems Capcom has a vision for each character that they want to fulfill, and you can see it in the patch notes. Cool to see that they deliberately introduce a big mechanic and really explore how each character benefits from it.
Let's see the next epic moment in fighting game history to be someone taking a Dan to a Final, and at the end of a final match, throws a random gadoken, not expected by the opponent, that comes out red and is capitalized on for the win.
Found out that the red fireball can come from a charge, me and family spent a whole day testing different things for it. So far the EX and VT2 cannot do a red fireball, can be wrong though
Can you do a recap of this patch in a video, talking about what the overall changes were what direction the patch/shift in the meta when in, biggest winner and who felt left out.
Doesn't really seem necessary to me Direction of patch = slight balance, buff unused v-skills/triggers Biggest winners: Ken, Nash, Lucia Biggest losers: Cammy, Abigail, Zangief, Menat maybe. Left out: Juri
I think red fireball is cool, it very much fits the spirit of dan. He feels like a character with soul, unlike some characters in SFV, cough cough, kolin, falke, rashid
Falke is very much like Cammy personality wise, because they basically went through the same thing. Kolin has character. She’s a cold bitch. Delusional about the evil cult she serves. Rashid? Really? You could’ve just said generic Kage and Necalli.
I did not know about Alpha Dan's 15% DP. I actually thought it was a callback to Championship/Hyper Fighting Ryu's RNG Red Hadoken. Maybe in an upcoming patch, they can give Dan the Super treatment they gave to Ryu and make the Red Gadoken HCF+P while keeping the QCF+P still random.
If I’m right you have to charge the Gadoken for 5 frames for it to be red. So someone could get the Danfinite still if they were that precise. Would make it even more hype, really.
Imagine if they buff Dan in the next patch and is actually mid tier on paper, with an infinite that happens any time that someone is stunned on a decent character there would way more people picking it. Having the infinite made Dan impossible to buff in the future.
for the VT1 buff on block, I think that you could probably do st.MP or cr.MP xx light dan kick, and it would always put you in a good place hit or block. if that's true then that's a very good buff for Dan, because it makes his VT1 more ignorant... and the dan kick obviously would not need to be confirmed like some of his other choices. haven't put it in training mode yet, just a thought I had and didn't see it explored in the video
I think this red fireball is a great way to remove the infinite without nerfing the character, still, I only wish there was a way to manipulate the red fireball, like make the ex version get a 50% chance to obtain instead of 15%(or just make it always red in ex.) As for vs1, it's a start, but I feel like it need much more so it could compete with vs2. I think it's a fun vskill to use, and it has it's uses, but comparing it to his vs2 is like having a race between a racing horse and a mustang, which while the horse may be fast, the mustang is on a whole different level. I think they should give him the ability to duck under fireballs and give it low profile, so it may see some use against fireball spammers like Guile, Gill and Sagat, and even with that I still see vs2 better, at least on every other mathcup.
I feel like in theory there would be times where its better to go for the chance of a red fireball combo. For example, if the non-rng combo wouldn't kill but the rng one would, then taking the risk has the potential to win you the round, and if you don't get lucky then you're still in a spot where any 1 combo will kill. Dan mains would know better than I would how much thats worth considering tho.
Bafael debunk the JF HCF Red Fireball. A shame, red fireball only applies to uncharged Gadoken, because getting a special version for any of Dan's fireballs or a stealth change with true JF HCF would have been really interesting and fun. A nice callback to Dan's EWGF in Omega Mode being a stealth change. Also, since the red fireball is a hard 15% RNG, I def love this change. I think the infinite was fine (and very hype) but after RB did it in a tourney, I knew it was going to be nerfed. That being said, this is one of the smartest nerfs Ive ever seen. Technically the infinite still exists but it requires a lot of hax to make it work (which makes pulling it off even more hype), and adds a minor level of chaos to a game.
Saved the best for last I see. Despite being overall lukewarm to Dan, I am just glad they didn't nerf him into oblivion as "compensation" for the infinite like I was expecting. Given how they mauled him in _SF4_ to attempt to force him to be the worst character in the game, Capcom not doing that again is good to see. Given Dan got basically only buffs, I guess that means the only characters that got overall nerfed were Abigail (lol), Cammy, E. Honda, Menat, Urien, and for some reason Zangief if I'm not forgetting someone. That's not too bad outside of the last one not needing to be nerfed at all, though as much as I hate Abigail, his nerfs are probably overkill.
I hate the rng red fireball nerf. They shouldve just adjusted the push back so he couldnt do the infinite and then added more damage or combo routes. Rng fireball is actually terrible to have simply because it's incredibly inconsistent. Yea it might be a call back to alpha but there is a reason they made sure to remove that glitch in future games with dan in it. Horrible balance change for dan I hope he gets better buffs in the future.
@@Bafael terrible balancing still dan is border line one of the worst characters in the game. Rng was not a good decision it was arguably the worst decision they couldve made. Shame capcom couldnt learn from a mistake they made in the 90s. Its a creative nerf, but a creative nerf isnt the same as a good nerf. Dan has been ruined and we will never see him being played at a high level ever again in sf5.
@@esotericwarrior7261 Hey genius, he’s a JOKE CHARACTER. He was never meant to be played at a high level. His entire design is laughs. He was never considered as a competitive staple. The fact that you actually think that he’s “ruined” because he lost a bug that could instantly win him games in return for a RNG move that doesn’t really nerf him, but instead remove a bug is incredibly stupid.
@@Qafdz just because hes a joke character doesnt mean he cant be a balanced and useable character at a high level if even as a secondary which we saw in cpt asia. You're literally saying it's ok for capcom to make your product you bought which is dan an objectively worse product. He will get buffs in the future so it will be fine but this was nkt a great change. I'm hoping he gets a bit more damage or even more oki off of his offense, but as of right now hes basically useless, arguably one of the worst characters in the game and inarguably the most inconsistent.
I don't play SF5, but I'm surprised at how many people seem to be okay or even happy that this new hadoken is RNG. I've never understood why people would like RNG in a competitive environment, as I thought competition was supposed to eliminate as many outside factors as possible while still being practical, as to get the closest indication of skill Like why not make it so that every fifth or so hadoken is red? it would add some strategy and management, plus it would make everything more consistent. Red hadoken based combos would be a regular thing you could rely on, and you'd know how many reps of the infinite you can get
red gadoken is poor design overall - a player shouldn't be punished for trying something that does work, but RNG says no. a better fix would be every xth fireball(maybe 5th-7th). this way you keep danfinite but with a certain amount of max reps, the player has to keep track of which fireball they are on and they can choose to dump their gadokens in neutral/post-stun in hopes of getting the max amount of reps if they hit infinite. you could potentially expand this further by making ex gadoken reset your red gadoken counter. Dota2 has a similar design philosophy with some on hit proc effects and it works quite well there. EDIT: Dan's a DLC character after all, he could be treated a bit better than a joke character with a price tag
Dota 2 also has some very impactful RNG mechanics that can sometimes make a bad play end up working out. I get that consistency is essential for competitive games, but adding a bit of chaos into the mix can lead to interesting moments that force the player to adapt to the situation given to them. As long as mechanics like this are not overly abundant, I think it's perfectly fine.
Should be noted that most Dota 2 characters tie their RNG into beneficial qualities rather than penalties. There is no 10% chance to self bash to my knowledge in that game(which is roughly what we have here). Chaos is good, but not when the chaos is something bad happening to you that is not caused by your opponent. Side note - none of the Items Xrd Faust tosses affect him negatively(except arguably helium as it locks Faust out from tossing an item for a while, but you still improve the frame data of your cancelled poke). Faust also being a character with RNG tied into his mechanics
My guy, joke character or not, no character should have an infinite. If they did, any player could be beat by that character. Not to mention that all you need to perform this infinite is to get a hit in the corner with a move that combos out of jump-ins. That’s incredibly unhealthy, and the “nerf” was simply Capcom removing the infinite without nerfing Dan.
Dan's red gadoken is the most creative nerf I've seen
More like a buff and bug fix lol
I rather still being able to do the infinite and have to cash out then them talking it away entirely
@@rdxgamer1772 yes, say no to new fun mechanics, a garanteed kill out of stun is way better
you can still theoretically get the full infinite you just have to get very very very lucky
I don't think I'd call a move randomly not working normally a creative solution
The red Gakoken is the coolest nerf of all time
up there with making heavy dp fadc forward punishable on block
I love how the infinite is still possible, just very, very unlikely. It just becomes more hype every time he manages to do another rep. Plus, the red gadoken giving some juggle still lets you do something cool to finish.
Red gadoken might be one of the best changes to a character I've ever seen.
-It adds more of his character to his moveset
-It is a neat throwback to an older game
-It manages to keep the "danfinite" in the game, making it into a sort of balanced infinite
-It does not take anything else away from Dan, unlike a frame advantage changes, if anything it is a buff
Thanks for all the notes
I had fun too TBH
It’s also a throwback to the original SF2 Easter egg with its red fireballs, hence why it’s functionally a Shakunetsu Gadoken
I love how they did indeed eliminate the infinite without nerfing Dan even slightly. BIG bonus points since it actually BUFFED him!
Red fireball is +1 on block so it does have that use
Yeah when you're lucky.
goodbye danfinite ( I mean its still there which is cool but its not an infinite anymore, a small price to pay for salvation )
It would have been fine if there weren't so many ways to lead into it.
@@slimballs9650 no it still wouldn't
@@captainmega6310
Actually according to the patch notes, the devs thought that the Danfinite was fine … until they realized that there were more setups into it than they realized.
@@slimballs9650 devs words aren't god. Infinites are inherently anti-competitive and failure of game design
@@captainmega6310
Unless the game is X-Men vs. Street Fighter.
I generally agree with you on infinites and that they also widen the divide between novice and advanced players, but what I’m trying to say is that if there were less setups into the Danfinite, the consequences would have been less severe and the divide not as wide.
Justin Wong had a hissy fit over this red Gadouken destroying the infinite.
He misses marvel
back to 0-2
Can't stand Justin Wong. He started pissing me off so i thought it was a recent thing with him but even going back to the good ol days he just sounds so full of himself
I wonder if the red gadoken is his hidden Satsui No Hado manifesting. Dan can actually access it sometimes, but... well, he's Dan.
It's probably how the Gadouken would actually behave, Dan is just that bad at his own moves.
Bafael was literally just holding back Dan update notes so he could do it as the last video omegalul
I did the whole cast in order, he was last.
Well one thing about red fireball is how it does against other fireballs. If you match fireballs against him but he gets a red, it'll beat yours and give him a free juggle and oki.
The fireball was a genius solution to the infinite and props to Capcom this time 😂 👏
Red fireball is such a graceful balance change. If this mentality moves forward into SF6 I’ll be very pleased.
See, now THIS is how you nerf(?) a character. I like to think that the red fireball is a satsuinohado (not too familiar with the lore, but I think that’s the evil stuff?) kinda thing for Dan. Maybe he is unintentionally harnessing it?
Or maybe they just made it pink to match his color scheme, we will never know.
Might just be a not-quite-there-yet shakunetsu as well
@@riiyaFGC the Shakunetsu is known for having fire properties and doing multiple hits, however Dan's red Gadouken is some kind of pink-ish crimson, pretty much like a lighter tone from Akuma's and Kage's Satsui No Hado
Now we wait for the next character: shin dan
@@silentaccent that's just kage pre-s5
Seeing as Dan accidentally did the Raging Demon in the comics, (though he failed completing it by tripping on a backpack), this red fireball which is a nerf is interesting. Maybe he did do an ultimate improvement.
Now you see where his story is going. I'll tell you something. When Dan does his red fireball he says "What the?!" Or "Nani!?"
I wanna think that Red Gadouken is the actual Gadouken, like, Dan is so bad at his own moves he can only do the true fireball 15% of the time lol.
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one. While I dont like how they changed the grapplers or Cammy, it seems Capcom has a vision for each character that they want to fulfill, and you can see it in the patch notes. Cool to see that they deliberately introduce a big mechanic and really explore how each character benefits from it.
Let's see the next epic moment in fighting game history to be someone taking a Dan to a Final, and at the end of a final match, throws a random gadoken, not expected by the opponent, that comes out red and is capitalized on for the win.
You just know someone is gonna is get comboed with 10 red fireballs then die and uninstall the game.
This change is really cool good job on their part
The red fireball is also a reference to a shoto glitch in WW
Found out that the red fireball can come from a charge, me and family spent a whole day testing different things for it. So far the EX and VT2 cannot do a red fireball, can be wrong though
These videos are the best part of new patches for SFV.
What an Elegant way to nerf him more nerfs should follow a similar thought process.
Dan is the GOAT!
ohhhhhh so thats why dan would turn white in a flash (randomly) doin dp's in the alpha series .... this is news to me 20+ years later
Dan's random red fireball looks similar to ryu's random red fireball from sf2
Can you do a recap of this patch in a video, talking about what the overall changes were what direction the patch/shift in the meta when in, biggest winner and who felt left out.
Doesn't really seem necessary to me
Direction of patch = slight balance, buff unused v-skills/triggers
Biggest winners: Ken, Nash, Lucia
Biggest losers: Cammy, Abigail, Zangief, Menat maybe.
Left out: Juri
I think red fireball is cool, it very much fits the spirit of dan. He feels like a character with soul, unlike some characters in SFV, cough cough, kolin, falke, rashid
Falke, maybe, but you’re high if you can’t see how the personality shines through Rashid.
When the game was first release, Rashid was that one character that called my attention BECUASE of his personality.
Falke is very much like Cammy personality wise, because they basically went through the same thing.
Kolin has character. She’s a cold bitch. Delusional about the evil cult she serves.
Rashid? Really?
You could’ve just said generic Kage and Necalli.
I did not know about Alpha Dan's 15% DP. I actually thought it was a callback to Championship/Hyper Fighting Ryu's RNG Red Hadoken.
Maybe in an upcoming patch, they can give Dan the Super treatment they gave to Ryu and make the Red Gadoken HCF+P while keeping the QCF+P still random.
You know, in theory the infinite is still here. I’d say it just makes the loop more fair.
reminds me of Wolverine's Swiss Cheese Nerf.
When the joke character has made other characters as a joke, time to give him red fireball 😁
If I’m right you have to charge the Gadoken for 5 frames for it to be red. So someone could get the Danfinite still if they were that precise. Would make it even more hype, really.
Imagine if they buff Dan in the next patch and is actually mid tier on paper, with an infinite that happens any time that someone is stunned on a decent character there would way more people picking it. Having the infinite made Dan impossible to buff in the future.
Wait wait wait. What was that about dan having a 1/50 chance of getting a invincible uppercut in alpha?
One in fifteen. He turns white and it has frame 1 invincibility
@ANDREW VEGA yeah iirc it's like his 37th action is an invincible uppercut then every 15th action after that.
I like that you can still try the infinite until it drops. It's still there if you want to style on people. It's better than just removing it.
Thanks for the notes!
for the VT1 buff on block, I think that you could probably do st.MP or cr.MP xx light dan kick, and it would always put you in a good place hit or block. if that's true then that's a very good buff for Dan, because it makes his VT1 more ignorant... and the dan kick obviously would not need to be confirmed like some of his other choices. haven't put it in training mode yet, just a thought I had and didn't see it explored in the video
I think this red fireball is a great way to remove the infinite without nerfing the character, still, I only wish there was a way to manipulate the red fireball, like make the ex version get a 50% chance to obtain instead of 15%(or just make it always red in ex.) As for vs1, it's a start, but I feel like it need much more so it could compete with vs2. I think it's a fun vskill to use, and it has it's uses, but comparing it to his vs2 is like having a race between a racing horse and a mustang, which while the horse may be fast, the mustang is on a whole different level. I think they should give him the ability to duck under fireballs and give it low profile, so it may see some use against fireball spammers like Guile, Gill and Sagat, and even with that I still see vs2 better, at least on every other mathcup.
Wait, I don't follow SFV, but Dan had an infinite? How long was he allowed to get away with it? And didn't it make him OP?
The starters were so uncommon you basically needed a dizzy and a specific combo sequence to get the perfect spacing.
@@Bafael ah, allright thank you.
Also, DAYUM that was a swift response.
Dan gets buffed while Gief gets nerfed.
5.5 is a funny patch lol An interesting one, but funny.
For some reason this video just refuses to load for me lmao
I feel like in theory there would be times where its better to go for the chance of a red fireball combo. For example, if the non-rng combo wouldn't kill but the rng one would, then taking the risk has the potential to win you the round, and if you don't get lucky then you're still in a spot where any 1 combo will kill. Dan mains would know better than I would how much thats worth considering tho.
So no juri changes 🥲
I didn't know Dan was in SFV
Back to garbage bin with Dan now
He was bottom 3 with the infinite lol. Not going to stop me from playing him though
Damn I was hoping it was a just frame. Even on move list it’s listed like that but oh well
I know they Nerf stung on all characters a long time ago but it's just awkward to do that many hits and not get a significant amount of stun
Bafael debunk the JF HCF Red Fireball. A shame, red fireball only applies to uncharged Gadoken, because getting a special version for any of Dan's fireballs or a stealth change with true JF HCF would have been really interesting and fun. A nice callback to Dan's EWGF in Omega Mode being a stealth change.
Also, since the red fireball is a hard 15% RNG, I def love this change.
I think the infinite was fine (and very hype) but after RB did it in a tourney, I knew it was going to be nerfed.
That being said, this is one of the smartest nerfs Ive ever seen. Technically the infinite still exists but it requires a lot of hax to make it work (which makes pulling it off even more hype), and adds a minor level of chaos to a game.
dan
Saved the best for last I see. Despite being overall lukewarm to Dan, I am just glad they didn't nerf him into oblivion as "compensation" for the infinite like I was expecting. Given how they mauled him in _SF4_ to attempt to force him to be the worst character in the game, Capcom not doing that again is good to see.
Given Dan got basically only buffs, I guess that means the only characters that got overall nerfed were Abigail (lol), Cammy, E. Honda, Menat, Urien, and for some reason Zangief if I'm not forgetting someone. That's not too bad outside of the last one not needing to be nerfed at all, though as much as I hate Abigail, his nerfs are probably overkill.
Nerf hidden as a buff what a bummer
I hate the rng red fireball nerf. They shouldve just adjusted the push back so he couldnt do the infinite and then added more damage or combo routes.
Rng fireball is actually terrible to have simply because it's incredibly inconsistent.
Yea it might be a call back to alpha but there is a reason they made sure to remove that glitch in future games with dan in it.
Horrible balance change for dan I hope he gets better buffs in the future.
It wasn't a glitch in alpha lol they programmed a unique animation effect for it
@@Bafael terrible balancing still dan is border line one of the worst characters in the game. Rng was not a good decision it was arguably the worst decision they couldve made. Shame capcom couldnt learn from a mistake they made in the 90s. Its a creative nerf, but a creative nerf isnt the same as a good nerf.
Dan has been ruined and we will never see him being played at a high level ever again in sf5.
cry more
@@esotericwarrior7261 Hey genius, he’s a JOKE CHARACTER. He was never meant to be played at a high level. His entire design is laughs. He was never considered as a competitive staple. The fact that you actually think that he’s “ruined” because he lost a bug that could instantly win him games in return for a RNG move that doesn’t really nerf him, but instead remove a bug is incredibly stupid.
@@Qafdz just because hes a joke character doesnt mean he cant be a balanced and useable character at a high level if even as a secondary which we saw in cpt asia. You're literally saying it's ok for capcom to make your product you bought which is dan an objectively worse product. He will get buffs in the future so it will be fine but this was nkt a great change. I'm hoping he gets a bit more damage or even more oki off of his offense, but as of right now hes basically useless, arguably one of the worst characters in the game and inarguably the most inconsistent.
I don't play SF5, but I'm surprised at how many people seem to be okay or even happy that this new hadoken is RNG. I've never understood why people would like RNG in a competitive environment, as I thought competition was supposed to eliminate as many outside factors as possible while still being practical, as to get the closest indication of skill
Like why not make it so that every fifth or so hadoken is red? it would add some strategy and management, plus it would make everything more consistent. Red hadoken based combos would be a regular thing you could rely on, and you'd know how many reps of the infinite you can get
red gadoken is poor design overall - a player shouldn't be punished for trying something that does work, but RNG says no. a better fix would be every xth fireball(maybe 5th-7th). this way you keep danfinite but with a certain amount of max reps, the player has to keep track of which fireball they are on and they can choose to dump their gadokens in neutral/post-stun in hopes of getting the max amount of reps if they hit infinite. you could potentially expand this further by making ex gadoken reset your red gadoken counter.
Dota2 has a similar design philosophy with some on hit proc effects and it works quite well there.
EDIT: Dan's a DLC character after all, he could be treated a bit better than a joke character with a price tag
I hear you but a lot of people like dan BECAUSE he's a joke character.
Dota 2 also has some very impactful RNG mechanics that can sometimes make a bad play end up working out. I get that consistency is essential for competitive games, but adding a bit of chaos into the mix can lead to interesting moments that force the player to adapt to the situation given to them.
As long as mechanics like this are not overly abundant, I think it's perfectly fine.
Should be noted that most Dota 2 characters tie their RNG into beneficial qualities rather than penalties. There is no 10% chance to self bash to my knowledge in that game(which is roughly what we have here).
Chaos is good, but not when the chaos is something bad happening to you that is not caused by your opponent.
Side note - none of the Items Xrd Faust tosses affect him negatively(except arguably helium as it locks Faust out from tossing an item for a while, but you still improve the frame data of your cancelled poke). Faust also being a character with RNG tied into his mechanics
Nerf the joke character...
🤡💩
Capcom, what is wrong with you?
My guy, joke character or not, no character should have an infinite. If they did, any player could be beat by that character. Not to mention that all you need to perform this infinite is to get a hit in the corner with a move that combos out of jump-ins. That’s incredibly unhealthy, and the “nerf” was simply Capcom removing the infinite without nerfing Dan.
Great work on the vids Baf