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the most cursed choice regarding fallout 4 is by bethesda to bring out a new patch that fixes every bug that has already been fixed by the community but fixes non of the bugs comunity hasnt fixed that require work arounds with console commands and they added 21:9 support that is worse than the support you get with mods but now these mods dont work anymore because new game version and then they threw in some lame ass creation club bullshit and called it "next gen update". you cant make this shit up.
i thought at least Nick was going to say something, but i guess bethesda didn't expect someone to bring nick for this special occasion, it's a shame too, because it would have really fit in the game for the interjection, instead he just stands there like a dummy.
@@blinkowarner3117 lol, well i suppose that's the only answer you get from him lol. i think bethesda just ran out of possible dialogue and just got lazy and only put the response as a like or dislike.
@@darthdad67 In Far Harbor, there is a little girl, who can't realy pay much, (As a poor child) but ask you to clear out a settlement from Ferals... After you done, there will be a cannibal guy, who tell you, it's his land, you can leave as you cleared it out to him but it's his now. Then you can tell him to people from Far Harbor want to go there, he then first demand to stay away, then change his mind and ask you to let them come.. Then you can go back, and tell the girl that the settlement is clear...
i got to get that courser factory reset code somehow lol. i think she was just another institute spy guiding me, but the institute let her go because she was dying of a issue they couldn't fix so they gave her the mission to guide the sole survivor on that path because this was shaun's plan to have you run the institute, everyone was in on it.
Poor Cito. Dude’s almost adorable with his Tarzan simplicity. His home is being overrun by an “invasive species”, you help him “save the jungle”. He calls you his new friend (high honor for someone who is otherwise a stranger), and then you put a bullet in his head.
On my brotherhood playthrough I killed Danse by tossing a grenade into him. He looked at that grenade very sadly before dying. I think his AI is reacting to the grenade, but every reaction is blocked so he notices it and can't move away or something like that
Bro... as funny as that sounds just a silent sad pause of him looking at the grenade, I could never bring myself to kill danse, I usually side with the brotherhood because they're badass but also to be able to romance danse, he's literally my favorite character.
Lol, I accidentally took them out while rescuing the one girl. Convinced the dude to unlock the door, accidentally threw a grenade and they all turned hostile so that group got ended early game for me.
Best part is after getting the 200 caps when he starts leaving with the kid, you can kill the gunner. The kid will then ask you why did you do that ? Then you say it was a joke or somwthing then the kid is relieved but not amused.
Literally me with any RPG. I tell myself I’m gonna spice it up but just stay the same as my last play through haha. I dumped 160 hours into two Cyberpunk 2077 play throughs that were exactly the same and in my second playthrough I was planning on being a complete ass, but couldn’t bring myself to it lmao.
Blind Betrayal really isn’t bad if you agree in the bunker. I personally think that’s the best outcome. Danes says “I need to be the example, not the exception” and if you agree he says “I’ve never been more proud of you than I am now, it’s been an honor serving with you.” I just think that’s the best send off. It’s like you earned the rank of Paladin, he passed the torch on to you the fact he’s proud of you is much better than keeping him alive.
The biggest criticism was dialogue options being reduced or "streamlined" down to 4 options, and a voice protagonist means you can't insert yourself into the conversations.
@@GTAVictor9128 Oh I remember played it myself at release and while I enjoyed my time with it I had a lot of gripes, the terrible dialogue system being a big one. I haven't seen most of these evil options myself and honestly thought they didn't really exist outside of factions like The Institute or full purge the mutants as a BoS member.
@@GTAVictor9128Ironic that in Baldurs gate 3 there isn't any voice lines from the protagonist in the conversations and the people say they can't insert themselves in the story because he doesn't talk and breaks the role😅
If you wasn't to busy to look for things you hate and jump on the bandwagon to hate. And enjoy the game for what it is. You would have got to experience that now would you?
There's one arguably worse than killing Cito in Nuka World. Side with Sierra during the Cappy quest, to get one reward then kill the old Nuka World boss to get the other, she'll go hostile and you just gun her down. Forgive me if I've flubbed some details though, been a hot minute since I've played F4.
I let my gf play my new character when I was at work...left one night and she was well on her way on the BoS storyline...got back and she'd fuckin killed Danse and then got sad about it.
Wiping out far harbor is a cursed choice? In my game, after i destroyed the children and uncovered the truth about Dima, far harbor massacred the synths (the people keeping their town safe) including the girl i was send there to save, i personally wipe them out. They had it coming.
I think taking over the Institute isn't so bad. Hear me out. No doubt they're evil, but they have the most secure bunker in fallout history . With me in charge, not being evil, just imagine what that place could do for the forces of good! All the other factions, upon killing the Institute, decide to blow the place up. It's so dumb.
Yes, I've been arguing this point for years, lol. The Institute should obviously be the best choice, because you get to be in charge. And if you're charge you can decide how good or evil it is.
The issue with that is the assumption that your Sole Survivor is the template for every Sole Survivor. Like being honest, the "canon" SS that would join the institute would be smart but have zero training in the workings of a massive research facility like the Institute and would be under constant threat of being undermined by the other scientists who resent their new bosses position. It would be a constant uphill battle between learning the tech and not getting replaced by a Synth
While being "in charge" you have 0 power, the institute still does exactly what it has always done, you're not actually doing anything leadership related, you're just the shmuck who believes them when they tell you "you leader now, now do this". The Institute is a terrible faction.
@@zoneraider5567 I'm not 100% sure but I think you also get the disease when your companion gets bit. That's why I usually do this mission alone or I let my companion stay far back.
@@zoneraider5567 You have to go without a companion and not activate the protectron inside (or destroy it right away), because any allied NPC that gets bitten by the infected molerats transmits the disease to you (yeah, Bethesda logic)
To be fair, its -10 total HP. Thats nothing, you still benefit from saving the boy more. Not to mention, this quest opens Curie, who gives you stimpaks. Just 1 stimpak from her already makes you the profit health-wise.
Also cursed decision, when you become an overlord of Nuka world before encounter Preston in Concord, he will be hostile to you and you wont get the quest moving forward xD
@@rezaruki3912 with some mod conflicts i was able to make all the raiders of nukaworld allied with the minutemen, but once i decided to kill shank, the entire town and the minutemen turned on me lol, i had a alternate death mod so they didn't kill me i was just stripped of all my belongings and was crippled and left to die in some location, well i escaped and got some gear set up and i was given a quest to get my stuff back, it turns out all of my loot was divided with all of my minutemen within the commonwealth and there were literal thousands of these NPC's in my world, i had to kill them all to get all my stuff back lol, it was the most fun i have ever had in the entire game, because i had all settlements on my side before this situation took place and everyone was patrolling all across the world, i had a minutemen mod that created minutemen militia's that were constantly roaming the landscape and they all had to die lol. it was legitimately the most fun i have ever had in this game, and i don't view it as a cursed choice, i view it like the lore of the game of what happened with the first minutemen betrayal, this was just history repeating itself, there were to many captains and everyone wanted to be the general especially when they betrayed me lol. sometimes mod conflicts can be fun and turn this game into the best sandbox.
7:42 omg I remember playing far harbor and I hated the part where you had to hack Dima's mind. It was boring as heck and had to figure a way to complete the puzzles
@@aprilwells9194 Holy ish man, spend some time with your kid.🤣 I can’t talk though, I got like 600+ hours in Cyberpunk and when when Halo3 was big decades ago I had over a year in multiplayer. Just started my first playthrough in Fallout 4, it’s my first time playing a Fallout game. Still trying to figure things out, especially with settlement building.
I like how Valentine walks by and just stands there watching The Sole Survivor and Maxson talk. Especially how Maxson doesn't even care that he's there following TSS.
The institute (a lot like the broterhood) is only as good or evil as it’s leadership You wouldn’t see Lyon’s lot stealing crops that’s for sure If you played a sole survivor who mainly made good choices, heavily rebuilt the minutemen and sided with the institute, father dies leaving you in charge with the resources to fully rebuild Boston It’s not an inherently evil ending
Nah, they are all evil. They want to replace all humans with synths. And all it will take is a synth replacing their leader in order to get a terminator future.
Why do I keep hearing people brainlessly parroting this nonsense about the BoS "stealing" crops? _Do players honestly not know what a tithe is??_ The BoS neither takes all of the crops (because then the farmers would starve), the quest makes it very clear they ask only for a part of the harvest _in exchange of keeping those lazy farmers safe from raiders, supermutants, monsters etc. that the Brotherhood starts removing once their airship arrives in Boston. But hey, we can wait until those raiders have murdered all those lazy farmers on their unfortified farms, then take the corn off the raiders, if you like that better.
I remember when i first got the game and didnt wanna do the brotherhood of steel i just stole the railgun and everything from the store and killed everyone in the blimp.
@@lumineniananubis4161going feral is a radiation effect, their brain "burned", the ones who aren't feral got luck and their brain didn't "burn" (i put ""s at burn because i don't think it's a good description of what happened, but i wasn't sure how to describe it otherwise)
Man with the shit I went through protecting Billy from gunners and getting him to his family, I can't imagine just selling him. I used ALL my ammo, my power armor was in pieces (just an arm and helmet left) and had to just start punching mofos. It was quite the battle afterwards I was exhausted IRL 😂
I remember on one of my playthroughs I sold the kid in the fridge then immediately killed the gunner and there’s a dialogue were you can say that you were making the enemy think you were handing him over to get him to pay his caps and survive. Pretty cool
I’ve never gotten the dialogue myself but I’ve seen a video on it and it looks pretty neat. I’m currently into Fallout 4 because I haven’t touched the game in like 2 years and I’m getting further than I ever have before. When I encounter the kid I’ll get this dialogue.
Arcadia telling either the instatute or brotherhood about it will wipe it out as well, but the railroad apparently they'll send more synth's there. Nuka world siding with the raiders to make bases in the regular game that extort other settlements is also bad (but the only way to get some raider settement things just some are locked to their quest to build bases, I couldn't since had glitch where Preston was following me along a companion something happened during "taking the castle" quest. might of been I wiped out the eggs before it was a task idk, but later it somehow got fixed)
Siding with institute and being with minuteman at the same time is the only way YOU control the future of the commonwealth. You continue every research you’ll need in institute bunker and minuteman are kind of your personal surface force do deal with any thread to the commonwealth…
I'm becoming desensitized to these videos. Dan's like "ok yeah I'm going to eat this baby!" And I'm like "ok! Makes sense!" Compared to the OG walking monstrous human that is Pink Goggles Shepard. That is the face of evil.
I don't think Billy was in the refrigerator for 200 years. I believe he got trapped in there hiding from another battle that was happening. When you run into his parents they don't act like he's been gone for 200 years.
Vault 81 blasting a stranger who at that point only been in the Vault twice for not wanting to risk their life to save someone else’s child while on a quest to save their own. No one from 81 wanted to help the sole survivor
If you're apart of the BOS before doing the Arcadia quest line, you can finish it peacefully, get the rewards then go back to the commonwealth and report the settlement to the BOS. You get to come back with a BOS squad and wipe out everyone in Arcadia.
@@OldmanTim_ Hey, just out of curiosity: How (if at all) does wiping out the Railroad HQ affect the quest "Battle for Bunker Hill"? I'm asking because it is usually the Railroad that protects the escaped Synths from the BoS and the Institute. Theoretically there shouldn't be anyone left to protect them.
@@Betterhose to be honest with you I haven’t played fallout 4 since they added in bethesda creation club and removed all custom mods from the game. ( Yes I play on console… they took my free Batman Beyond armor and real life gun mods away and I’ve never forgiven them. ) So it’s been literally years since I thought about touching the game. And with Starfield being a mega disappointment to me aka ( Felt like Oblivion in Space… yes that game reminded me too much of a game from 2006. ) I honestly never thought I’d be into another Bethesda game. But after seeing how well written the show was and how the community still loves the game I’ve been thinking about redownloading to PS5 to see if I’m missing out on anything. Now to answer your question I can’t remember any changes wiping out the Railroad had on any quests. I would mostly side with the Brotherhood at the end but even that ending is kinda trash to me. All I remember is this after my first play through… it was on sight for the Railroad and Father… didn’t really care about the consequences or storyline holes… it was just simple for me. They both had to go by any means necessary. lol I hope that answers your question.
Funny the Danse thing, as morally the BoS is the most evil faction you can side in the game. No it's not the Institute. The Institute not care about the surface, but they only interfere if they feel themself dangered. Killing the Railroad, you kill a fanatic sect, killing the BoS you kill soldiers. Killing the Instititute you kill families, civilians, children. BoS however is a warcrime committing military faction, they literaly commit genocide on every non-human, including Danse. Side with them is more Cursed than any other faction. Old Man Stockton tell about his daughter is a stolen modified synth by Railroad. As EVERY single synth who replace someone by the Institute always know they are synths, and what are their jobs, and almost every time they replace some important but morally shitty person. If a synth don't know that it's a synth, that's because the Railroad wiped their memories, so they are not Institute replacements. Amelia is a synth, after the Railroad wiped her memories they made her Stockton's daughter, she's not a replacement of the real daughter.
So the squires and doctors with the BoS dont count? The synths replacing random family members doesn’t count? The institute straight up tells you they do this on a normal basis, and they do nothing to rid the mutant or raider problems, they just wipe out settlements. The BoS at least cleans up the place. The institute already has had all the resources to clean up boston for decades especially in the food and agriculture department. Instead of sending synths to replace people and kill off loved ones, or improve the lives of some of the ones they intended to replace, they could have been disguising synths to disseminate life saving technologies. Your son waits until he croaks from cancer to allow you to take the reins and fix his life of missed opportunities? Nah man the institute is worthless. Not to mention you can evacuate the civilian population of the institute before blowing it up. That holds zero repercussions no matter what faction you go with. I will say it is dumb that no matter what you choose, none of the opposing factions snag the medical and agricultural technologies. That was a massive oversight.
@@iowasucks9494 The doctors in BoS are military personnel too. And Brotherhood squires are like Hitler-Jugend. Another dark side of BoS. That alone prove how little you understand the whole thing. Institute never claimed they gonna save the Commonwealth, they help with non-militaristic ways, (cure to FEV better foods etc) but not invade the surface. Only destroy threats. And only replace people with important role not just random family members. If you evacuate the civilians those life not better than those who evacuated from Quincy when Gunners attacked, you are as bad as those Gunners were to Preston... And the BoS not clear anything they just Commit Genocide, they would attack Sanctuary for Sturges, they would attack Diamond City for Nick they are nazis. And again. They all military personnel. None of them civilian, none of them children. Oh and you mentioned they could use synths with life saving techs, right? Warwick do just that. Better radiation free food to the Commonwealth. For the price of replacing an alcoholic family abusing dad...
I'm a hardline Railroadie but the Institute isn't THE evil faction. Just as the Minutemen are the ultimate good, the Nuka-World Raiders are the ultimate evil. Siding with them past the generator questline, sending them to the Commonwealth to take over your own settlements, I think that's worse than siding with the Institute. Even if Gage disagrees.
The cleansing of Far Harbor is actually my favorite route, but instead of your method I first side with the institute, then dusable the wind turbines for the children of atom perk reward and as soon as I claim it I activate the launch codes. Once thats done I go to the institute to start a quest to reclaim the acadia synth (DiMA included). Also works if you side with the brotherhood.
What I thought was strange is I already discovered Billy’s parents house before I found him. So I fast travelled there with him right away, yet somehow Bullet still showed up with a small crew. I like to think he was close to me when I fast travelled so he tracked us to the house instead of the initial interaction most people had.
There is actually a pretty good reason to side with the İnstitute - you don't have to create another huge ass nuclear crater just near the Diamond City. Radstorm immediately starts when you reach that area, every time, after you blow up the İnstitute. And you have an actual chance to use its technologies to help people. Especially with some mods, for example, i put a couple of new, armored synth guards at every little farm. İf only i could occupy the İnstitute with the Minutemen instead of destroying it, i would happily do it.
Funniest one i did was killing Paul Pembroke right in front of his wife in their apartment, running from security and staying away for 3 days. You come back to his body still in their apartment and she still asks about him going missing.
You'd have to be a seriously hardline Brotherhood asshole to kill Danse. I didn't care for the BoS as a whole in FO4, but Danse never did me wrong. That big dumb brick was always there for me.
I think u should have picked siding with Sierra in that cappy quest since u will Miss out on a nuka launcher plus u can sell Billy kill bullet and still take him home
0:30 i did not kill paladin danse I killed the whole brotherhood of steel with infinite health and an ak after waiting for 15 minutes for liberty prime to take a step
I was almost going to mention that another cursed decision would be to get banished from the institute but let’s face it, the institute is literally useless and I honestly can’t think of any good reason to work with them. Making enemies with the institute is arguably more fun than to rival with. I also have a bit of bias because I banished myself in my favorite play through.
Looking at all disguised robots in fiction. Ive always wondered how a situation would turn out if the one accused of being a robot but no one could prove said something like "all these numbers scrolling by are telling me this but that couldn't be right..." Ive always wondered how they never knew that they weren't a real person.
Well that was my choice too. I sided with my own kid. Also if you ask yourself that you want to live in a scrap-town or what you have seen in the institute. EZ choice.
14:12 How is supposed to be a cursed choice? Covenant’s safe test can identify synths spatially, but with more testing it would perfectly work out, I don’t see this as a horrible choice but a slight feel of hope for a way to identify and terminate synths.
I always considered siding with the institute to be the most morally responsible option for humanity, they have the best chance out of all the factions to bring unification and a better future through technology than any of the other factions. they are the least corruptible and far exceed potential to bring lasting peace.
I personally like to think with the Sole Survivor being the new director, they could change how the Institute works for the better, like putting emphasis on researching ways to purify water for the commonwealth or provide cures for diseases. And if anyone objects… well dictatorship is always an option!
Generation 3 model Synths in Fallout 4 don't have "circuits"! They are artificial and fully organic human beings, including their brain -- which is why they are so hard to identify, as the only artificial thing inside them is that control chip the Institute put in their brain. They were assembled in adult form from 3D-printed organs and bones, very similar to the "cloning" scene in the movie The Fifth Element. But Gen3 Synth are organic, albeit with improvements like immunity to radioactivity -- similar to the Replicants in _Blade Runner_ (who are fully organic, too, they live, breathe, eat and age, unlike the novel where the "androids" are clearly robotic underneath the human appearance). It's the Institute's older Synth models who are robotic: Generation 1 (fully robotic), Generation 2 (androids with outwards human appearance and copied human memories, like Nick Valentine).
Blind Betrayal is one of the many reasons I love the BOS story line, it also was the reason I stopped trying to romance Piper and started to try to romance Synth Curie
Even early in the game when you meet Piper and the community think the Synths aren't real, it's all just conspiracy theory that some believe and some don't, but they have Valentine residing right there with them the whole time.
So with dance, it makes me wonder about the brotherhood. After watching the show. Like have the brotherhood indoctrinated and brainwashed their members so bad, that Danse will commit sewer slide once learning that he’s not a real human. Like he’s done so much good in the wasteland, but he still thinks of himself as evil.
Somewhat each time I get to the Pillars of the Community for the first time, a Vertibird always come by and fell down towards the place, and just about my current playthrough it killed about almost everyone including Thomas lmao
Kid in the fridge my guess is the fridge helped him receive gradual radiation over time to sustain him over the years. Now the reason he's not a feral goul probably boils down to how strong minded the kid was.
Never found scapping synths a problem. Thomas always gets it. Robbing people of everything is death sentence in Fallout. Ghoul kid slave, murder Cito and kill all Far Harbour can't justify. Fallout is frontieer justice after all.
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I’m sorry sorry 😞😞 my my family has no choice I have a
the most cursed choice regarding fallout 4 is by bethesda to bring out a new patch that fixes every bug that has already been fixed by the community but fixes non of the bugs comunity hasnt fixed that require work arounds with console commands and they added 21:9 support that is worse than the support you get with mods but now these mods dont work anymore because new game version and then they threw in some lame ass creation club bullshit and called it "next gen update". you cant make this shit up.
T
if you bring billy home adn then the gunner comes he asks you to kill the parents before bringing him the boy
I killed all of the brother of steel when I joined them. When you first get to there ship.
Of course you had Valentine there when you finish Dance.
I love how Maxson doesn't address that at all lol
I was dieing when he stood next to Maxson after 😂
Maxson: kill the synth
Sole survivor: *shoots nick*
Maxson: well i meant the other synth but ok. Anyway kill him too
Yea, Danse is banned. Welcome to BOS for dectective synth, courser, Railroad Guy, green guy and mayor ghoul and synth women.
And he had Cait with him when selling Billy into slavery
One of the most cursed options you can do is eating Shawn after taking him out the first time you meet him.
Good ending.
*Captain Rick Ravisha the Third enters the chat*
Glummy 😋
“Nom nom nom…. Wait, shit, he tastes like Nora!”
Holy shit that dark 😂
I love how right after you kill Danse Nick walks right in from of Maxson while he's talking about killing synths.
i thought at least Nick was going to say something, but i guess bethesda didn't expect someone to bring nick for this special occasion, it's a shame too, because it would have really fit in the game for the interjection, instead he just stands there like a dummy.
-Nick disliked that-
@@blinkowarner3117
lol, well i suppose that's the only answer you get from him lol.
i think bethesda just ran out of possible dialogue and just got lazy and only put the response as a like or dislike.
honestly surprised that selling a group of children to cannibals wasn’t included but the institute ending was lmao
Wait, what?
Did I somehow miss this or am I just senile?
Where / when / how?
@@darthdad67 I missed this too.
Wait what?
@@darthdad67 In Far Harbor, there is a little girl, who can't realy pay much, (As a poor child) but ask you to clear out a settlement from Ferals...
After you done, there will be a cannibal guy, who tell you, it's his land, you can leave as you cleared it out to him but it's his now.
Then you can tell him to people from Far Harbor want to go there, he then first demand to stay away, then change his mind and ask you to let them come..
Then you can go back, and tell the girl that the settlement is clear...
Institute has to be the best ending in the entire game honestly
Giving Mama Murphy drugs till she dies is pretty bad
i got to get that courser factory reset code somehow lol.
i think she was just another institute spy guiding me, but the institute let her go because she was dying of a issue they couldn't fix so they gave her the mission to guide the sole survivor on that path because this was shaun's plan to have you run the institute, everyone was in on it.
Did that one on accident, didn’t think she’d kick the bucket
@@rotationalbox588| T'be fair woulda thunk giving a junkie drugs would inevitably lead to an overdose? There's absolutely no precedent for that!
😂😂
I think she's fine with that, telling your the future is more important to her. 😅
Wait.... So using the gangs in nuka World dlc to create slave camps in settlements you previously freed doesn't make the list?
Especially the Disciples
Turf for mommy Nisha
It's what I always do, because fuck Preston
Theirs always new settlements. I'll mark it on your map
@@Sodamachine62 *There's
Poor Cito. Dude’s almost adorable with his Tarzan simplicity. His home is being overrun by an “invasive species”, you help him “save the jungle”. He calls you his new friend (high honor for someone who is otherwise a stranger), and then you put a bullet in his head.
Genuinely made me sad
"200 caps" SOLD 🤣
They'll go higher.
On my brotherhood playthrough I killed Danse by tossing a grenade into him. He looked at that grenade very sadly before dying. I think his AI is reacting to the grenade, but every reaction is blocked so he notices it and can't move away or something like that
Holy shit...
Bro... as funny as that sounds just a silent sad pause of him looking at the grenade, I could never bring myself to kill danse, I usually side with the brotherhood because they're badass but also to be able to romance danse, he's literally my favorite character.
Armored bath robe ✅
X0-1 Power armor ❌
My favorite thing about the pillars is that a death claw came out of nowhere and killed everyone leaving me able to take all my things back
Holy fucking shit, you just made my day. 🤣
Lol, I accidentally took them out while rescuing the one girl. Convinced the dude to unlock the door, accidentally threw a grenade and they all turned hostile so that group got ended early game for me.
8:08 I love how every interaction with Allen just turns into "He poisoned our water supply, burned our crops and delivered a plague unto our houses!"
fun fact about Buzz Lightyear, I mean Danse is that his VA is the same as Sovreign from Mass Effect
And Nick Valentine is also Belethor from Skyrim.
Asshole just opens his shop when he chooses to. Nick would never.
@@JXX646 explains why he always sounded super sleazy to me :-) mayb he was subtly hoping to sell his synth sister at some point
@@GenericUsername-qp1ww Well Belethor does sell everything that you could need, if you can manage to get his shop to open.
I like how she didn't even try to get the highest price for the ghoul kid and she just took the first offer :D
Best part is after getting the 200 caps when he starts leaving with the kid, you can kill the gunner. The kid will then ask you why did you do that ? Then you say it was a joke or somwthing then the kid is relieved but not amused.
Sole Survivor: “This is everything I have”
Brother Thomas: “Oh. You’re really buff 🥵 I wasn’t expecting that. Umm Welcome!”
Alright, imagine you have nothing or imagine you only have a can in your pocket
I never would have heard these dialogue choices because I cant bring myself to hit the buttons that cause it.
It pulls at your heartstrings
Literally me with any RPG. I tell myself I’m gonna spice it up but just stay the same as my last play through haha.
I dumped 160 hours into two Cyberpunk 2077 play throughs that were exactly the same and in my second playthrough I was planning on being a complete ass, but couldn’t bring myself to it lmao.
Blind Betrayal really isn’t bad if you agree in the bunker. I personally think that’s the best outcome. Danes says “I need to be the example, not the exception” and if you agree he says “I’ve never been more proud of you than I am now, it’s been an honor serving with you.” I just think that’s the best send off.
It’s like you earned the rank of Paladin, he passed the torch on to you the fact he’s proud of you is much better than keeping him alive.
I did the same because that’s what he wanted. Danse was the only companion I would play the game with
It seems to me by the time I got to the Betrayal quest, I was made a Sentinel Paladin, the highest rank you could achieve with the Brotherhood.
Well I'm honestly impressed with how despicable these choices actually are. Guess FO4 deserves more credit than I've given it.
The biggest criticism was dialogue options being reduced or "streamlined" down to 4 options, and a voice protagonist means you can't insert yourself into the conversations.
@@GTAVictor9128 Oh I remember played it myself at release and while I enjoyed my time with it I had a lot of gripes, the terrible dialogue system being a big one. I haven't seen most of these evil options myself and honestly thought they didn't really exist outside of factions like The Institute or full purge the mutants as a BoS member.
@@GTAVictor9128Ironic that in Baldurs gate 3 there isn't any voice lines from the protagonist in the conversations and the people say they can't insert themselves in the story because he doesn't talk and breaks the role😅
If you wasn't to busy to look for things you hate and jump on the bandwagon to hate. And enjoy the game for what it is. You would have got to experience that now would you?
@@blackstallion7927 Assumptions make an ass out of you and me.
There's one arguably worse than killing Cito in Nuka World. Side with Sierra during the Cappy quest, to get one reward then kill the old Nuka World boss to get the other, she'll go hostile and you just gun her down.
Forgive me if I've flubbed some details though, been a hot minute since I've played F4.
Doing what 99% of us couldn't what a Legend xd
Tell me about it. He shot Mordin and refused Liara's endgame gift. Dan can't be saved, but he did it for us.
Im so bad at being mean in games lol. I feel to bad being mean lol.
It’s kinda boring to be the good guy because it’s so unrealistic in reality to survive being a Samaritan
bethesda doesn't exactly make these choices easy when we are supposed to be goody too shoes by default in nearly everything we do.
@@williammartin1691 Oh man, me too! I'm so glad Big Dan takes the heat for us so we get to keep our hands clean and still get to see the outcomes.
"Grab an ICE cofee"
Starting off strong with them cursed decisions eh?
Hey, Ice Coffees are fantastic
@@pavvin*iced
I let my gf play my new character when I was at work...left one night and she was well on her way on the BoS storyline...got back and she'd fuckin killed Danse and then got sad about it.
Wiping out far harbor is a cursed choice? In my game, after i destroyed the children and uncovered the truth about Dima, far harbor massacred the synths (the people keeping their town safe) including the girl i was send there to save, i personally wipe them out. They had it coming.
The girl and most of them were pretty innocent as far as I remember. DIMA was a bit shady but the synths do face some pretty brutal prejudice imho
+1, was really surprised that a good option was on this list
Who is evil?
Racist people or refugee synths?
@@PurpleNoir It's not brutal. It's fair. They literally replace REAL people.
Fuck the machines
@@PurpleNoirthey are machines not people. They are tools to be used or discarded
I think taking over the Institute isn't so bad. Hear me out. No doubt they're evil, but they have the most secure bunker in fallout history . With me in charge, not being evil, just imagine what that place could do for the forces of good! All the other factions, upon killing the Institute, decide to blow the place up. It's so dumb.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Yes, I've been arguing this point for years, lol. The Institute should obviously be the best choice, because you get to be in charge. And if you're charge you can decide how good or evil it is.
The issue with that is the assumption that your Sole Survivor is the template for every Sole Survivor.
Like being honest, the "canon" SS that would join the institute would be smart but have zero training in the workings of a massive research facility like the Institute and would be under constant threat of being undermined by the other scientists who resent their new bosses position. It would be a constant uphill battle between learning the tech and not getting replaced by a Synth
While being "in charge" you have 0 power, the institute still does exactly what it has always done, you're not actually doing anything leadership related, you're just the shmuck who believes them when they tell you "you leader now, now do this". The Institute is a terrible faction.
@@nauscakes1868 Pretty sure you DON'T actually get to be in charge, at all. Explore some dialog options with Shawn.
I always make sure not to get bit in Vault 81 so i can give the Serum away
Thats possible?! I always thought it was scripted to get the desease, because i also did a run without a hit and still got the debuff
@@zoneraider5567
I'm not 100% sure but I think you also get the disease when your companion gets bit.
That's why I usually do this mission alone or I let my companion stay far back.
@@zoneraider5567 You have to go without a companion and not activate the protectron inside (or destroy it right away), because any allied NPC that gets bitten by the infected molerats transmits the disease to you (yeah, Bethesda logic)
To be fair, its -10 total HP. Thats nothing, you still benefit from saving the boy more. Not to mention, this quest opens Curie, who gives you stimpaks. Just 1 stimpak from her already makes you the profit health-wise.
Cursed decision 11. Letting Preston Garvey stay anywhere near your main settlement.
Also cursed decision, when you become an overlord of Nuka world before encounter Preston in Concord, he will be hostile to you and you wont get the quest moving forward xD
@@rezaruki3912 i like this info, thanks
@@rezaruki3912
with some mod conflicts i was able to make all the raiders of nukaworld allied with the minutemen, but once i decided to kill shank, the entire town and the minutemen turned on me lol, i had a alternate death mod so they didn't kill me i was just stripped of all my belongings and was crippled and left to die in some location, well i escaped and got some gear set up and i was given a quest to get my stuff back, it turns out all of my loot was divided with all of my minutemen within the commonwealth and there were literal thousands of these NPC's in my world, i had to kill them all to get all my stuff back lol, it was the most fun i have ever had in the entire game, because i had all settlements on my side before this situation took place and everyone was patrolling all across the world, i had a minutemen mod that created minutemen militia's that were constantly roaming the landscape and they all had to die lol.
it was legitimately the most fun i have ever had in this game, and i don't view it as a cursed choice, i view it like the lore of the game of what happened with the first minutemen betrayal, this was just history repeating itself, there were to many captains and everyone wanted to be the general especially when they betrayed me lol.
sometimes mod conflicts can be fun and turn this game into the best sandbox.
@@rezaruki3912that's not cursed. That's just smart
@@rezaruki3912 Unless you decide to turn on the raiders and kill all of them before talking to Preston, in which case he won't even bring it up.
Big Dan dose all the things that we don't have the heart to do.
OMFG when it cuts the character wearing a chef hat and fashionable glasses....🤣🤣😂😂
Nick positioning himself right next to Maxson while he talks about how much he hates synths is peak comedy.
maxon kill dance right now. me: say thats an awfully nice coat you got there
I see what your going there, either he offers the coat and you instantly go like “sorry dance” or kill both because dance shoots you
@@Manhunt811 nope i just kill maxon for trying to make me to kill dance and take his coat when im done.
@@nick_the_named ye but then You have to kill Danse because he will try to kill you too
7:42 omg I remember playing far harbor and I hated the part where you had to hack Dima's mind. It was boring as heck and had to figure a way to complete the puzzles
Danse was a Synth? How much more betrayal can I take?
He can't be in our social club anymore, that much I do know
You're never going to believe this
He killed 16 new californians. Guy was an interior vault dweller.
I feel like I been stabbed in the heart!
Social club? He gotta GO!
gary cooper was gay ?
@@WOGBOY No! Are you listening to anything I’m saying?!
References aside, I always found it funny how Gary was actually bi-sexual
Who else is revisiting Fallout because of the show?
I was gonna buy a new Vegas from my friend after watching the show and ended up buying fallout 4 for myself
Everyone...?
Everyone is dude
My 10 year old just discovered why I bought a PS5 for myself... I have 1100 hrs in this game.
@@aprilwells9194 Holy ish man, spend some time with your kid.🤣
I can’t talk though, I got like 600+ hours in Cyberpunk and when when Halo3 was big decades ago I had over a year in multiplayer. Just started my first playthrough in Fallout 4, it’s my first time playing a Fallout game. Still trying to figure things out, especially with settlement building.
They needed an option to call the BoS into Nuka-World too. Might’ve made that one worth playing
danse was a synth? damn. in FO4 world anyone can turn up as a synth it seems. only one guy i can be sure in: my buddy nick valentine!
I like how Valentine walks by and just stands there watching The Sole Survivor and Maxson talk. Especially how Maxson doesn't even care that he's there following TSS.
The institute (a lot like the broterhood) is only as good or evil as it’s leadership
You wouldn’t see Lyon’s lot stealing crops that’s for sure
If you played a sole survivor who mainly made good choices, heavily rebuilt the minutemen and sided with the institute, father dies leaving you in charge with the resources to fully rebuild Boston
It’s not an inherently evil ending
Nah, they are all evil. They want to replace all humans with synths. And all it will take is a synth replacing their leader in order to get a terminator future.
Why do I keep hearing people brainlessly parroting this nonsense about the BoS "stealing" crops? _Do players honestly not know what a tithe is??_ The BoS neither takes all of the crops (because then the farmers would starve), the quest makes it very clear they ask only for a part of the harvest _in exchange of keeping those lazy farmers safe from raiders, supermutants, monsters etc. that the Brotherhood starts removing once their airship arrives in Boston. But hey, we can wait until those raiders have murdered all those lazy farmers on their unfortified farms, then take the corn off the raiders, if you like that better.
I remember when i first got the game and didnt wanna do the brotherhood of steel i just stole the railgun and everything from the store and killed everyone in the blimp.
-Prydwen-
-Airship-
Blimp 👍
😂
Oh the humanity!
Based
Good choice.
Is a pity that one cannot join the good guys in Fallout 4.
The Enclave.
Well, f--- you for murdering some of the most interesting NPCs in the game.
He did not even tryed to negotiate for a higher price for billy, that is evil lmao
3:32 "Come on kid, I got some holes that need..."
OH DEAR GOD
"...digging"
Phew, ok, that's not quite so bad
3:50 LMAO that transition from selling the kid to promoting an advert by saying its not such a bad thing to invest in yourself felt a little sus
hahahaha yeah that got me too lmao
Nice touch having Valentine with you for Blind Betrayal.😂
In the tv show ghouls don’t need food and water and have to take a serum to not go feral…they retconned so much lmao
Yea, that syreum to not go feral was odd. I thought going feral was just some random thing to happen.
IIRC, feral ghouls themselves were a retcon in Fallout 3. I certainly don't recall them from the original games.
@@lumineniananubis4161going feral is a radiation effect, their brain "burned", the ones who aren't feral got luck and their brain didn't "burn" (i put ""s at burn because i don't think it's a good description of what happened, but i wasn't sure how to describe it otherwise)
The don't need food and drink part isn't a retcon, that's just the standard
I think the serum is just radaway which kinda makes sense. You are already pretty fried and you'll need to make sure it doesn't go further
The Fallout 4 BoS is a step or two from being the Enclave
And? Nothing wrong with the enclave.
The enclave were the good guys.
The BOS are traitors with access to some antiquated technology.
You have a way of making the worst fucking choices hilarious
Man with the shit I went through protecting Billy from gunners and getting him to his family, I can't imagine just selling him. I used ALL my ammo, my power armor was in pieces (just an arm and helmet left) and had to just start punching mofos. It was quite the battle afterwards I was exhausted IRL 😂
You know what they say you can take the synth out of the institute but you can't take the institute out if the synth lmao straight gold
I remember on one of my playthroughs I sold the kid in the fridge then immediately killed the gunner and there’s a dialogue were you can say that you were making the enemy think you were handing him over to get him to pay his caps and survive. Pretty cool
I’ve never gotten the dialogue myself but I’ve seen a video on it and it looks pretty neat. I’m currently into Fallout 4 because I haven’t touched the game in like 2 years and I’m getting further than I ever have before. When I encounter the kid I’ll get this dialogue.
Arcadia telling either the instatute or brotherhood about it will wipe it out as well, but the railroad apparently they'll send more synth's there.
Nuka world siding with the raiders to make bases in the regular game that extort other settlements is also bad (but the only way to get some raider settement things just some are locked to their quest to build bases, I couldn't since had glitch where Preston was following me along a companion something happened during "taking the castle" quest. might of been I wiped out the eggs before it was a task idk, but later it somehow got fixed)
Bro you didn't even haggle with Billy's life?
Siding with institute and being with minuteman at the same time is the only way YOU control the future of the commonwealth. You continue every research you’ll need in institute bunker and minuteman are kind of your personal surface force do deal with any thread to the commonwealth…
I'm becoming desensitized to these videos.
Dan's like "ok yeah I'm going to eat this baby!"
And I'm like "ok! Makes sense!"
Compared to the OG walking monstrous human that is Pink Goggles Shepard. That is the face of evil.
I don't think Billy was in the refrigerator for 200 years. I believe he got trapped in there hiding from another battle that was happening. When you run into his parents they don't act like he's been gone for 200 years.
Billy is surprised to find out his parents are ghouls though.
Vault 81 blasting a stranger who at that point only been in the Vault twice for not wanting to risk their life to save someone else’s child while on a quest to save their own. No one from 81 wanted to help the sole survivor
If you're apart of the BOS before doing the Arcadia quest line, you can finish it peacefully, get the rewards then go back to the commonwealth and report the settlement to the BOS. You get to come back with a BOS squad and wipe out everyone in Arcadia.
Actually you can do the same thing when siding with the Institute
No lie… I murder the railroad on sight on every play through… 🤷🏾♂️
Usually I wait with that until I have really good equipment.
Power Armor and the laser Gatling.
I do not want this to be a fair fight. 😂
This is the only correct choice in dealing with them
@@Betterhose nah fam… I’m petty… difficulty turned down.
@@OldmanTim_
Hey, just out of curiosity:
How (if at all) does wiping out the Railroad HQ affect the quest "Battle for Bunker Hill"?
I'm asking because it is usually the Railroad that protects the escaped Synths from the BoS and the Institute.
Theoretically there shouldn't be anyone left to protect them.
@@Betterhose to be honest with you I haven’t played fallout 4 since they added in bethesda creation club and removed all custom mods from the game. ( Yes I play on console… they took my free Batman Beyond armor and real life gun mods away and I’ve never forgiven them. )
So it’s been literally years since I thought about touching the game.
And with Starfield being a mega disappointment to me aka ( Felt like Oblivion in Space… yes that game reminded me too much of a game from 2006. ) I honestly never thought I’d be into another Bethesda game.
But after seeing how well written the show was and how the community still loves the game I’ve been thinking about redownloading to PS5 to see if I’m missing out on anything.
Now to answer your question I can’t remember any changes wiping out the Railroad had on any quests. I would mostly side with the Brotherhood at the end but even that ending is kinda trash to me.
All I remember is this after my first play through… it was on sight for the Railroad and Father… didn’t really care about the consequences or storyline holes… it was just simple for me. They both had to go by any means necessary. lol I hope that answers your question.
Brother Thomas, the celestial power that keeps respawning just to fulfil side quest criteria.
Lol you turn selling Billy into a promotion that was great
Funny the Danse thing, as morally the BoS is the most evil faction you can side in the game. No it's not the Institute.
The Institute not care about the surface, but they only interfere if they feel themself dangered.
Killing the Railroad, you kill a fanatic sect, killing the BoS you kill soldiers. Killing the Instititute you kill families, civilians, children.
BoS however is a warcrime committing military faction, they literaly commit genocide on every non-human, including Danse. Side with them is more Cursed than any other faction.
Old Man Stockton tell about his daughter is a stolen modified synth by Railroad. As EVERY single synth who replace someone by the Institute always know they are synths, and what are their jobs, and almost every time they replace some important but morally shitty person. If a synth don't know that it's a synth, that's because the Railroad wiped their memories, so they are not Institute replacements. Amelia is a synth, after the Railroad wiped her memories they made her Stockton's daughter, she's not a replacement of the real daughter.
Being against slavery makes you a "fanatic"? Lmao
So the squires and doctors with the BoS dont count? The synths replacing random family members doesn’t count? The institute straight up tells you they do this on a normal basis, and they do nothing to rid the mutant or raider problems, they just wipe out settlements. The BoS at least cleans up the place. The institute already has had all the resources to clean up boston for decades especially in the food and agriculture department. Instead of sending synths to replace people and kill off loved ones, or improve the lives of some of the ones they intended to replace, they could have been disguising synths to disseminate life saving technologies. Your son waits until he croaks from cancer to allow you to take the reins and fix his life of missed opportunities? Nah man the institute is worthless. Not to mention you can evacuate the civilian population of the institute before blowing it up. That holds zero repercussions no matter what faction you go with.
I will say it is dumb that no matter what you choose, none of the opposing factions snag the medical and agricultural technologies. That was a massive oversight.
@@iowasucks9494 tl:dr
@@iowasucks9494 The doctors in BoS are military personnel too.
And Brotherhood squires are like Hitler-Jugend. Another dark side of BoS.
That alone prove how little you understand the whole thing.
Institute never claimed they gonna save the Commonwealth, they help with non-militaristic ways, (cure to FEV better foods etc) but not invade the surface.
Only destroy threats.
And only replace people with important role not just random family members.
If you evacuate the civilians those life not better than those who evacuated from Quincy when Gunners attacked, you are as bad as those Gunners were to Preston...
And the BoS not clear anything they just Commit Genocide, they would attack Sanctuary for Sturges, they would attack Diamond City for Nick they are nazis.
And again. They all military personnel. None of them civilian, none of them children.
Oh and you mentioned they could use synths with life saving techs, right?
Warwick do just that.
Better radiation free food to the Commonwealth. For the price of replacing an alcoholic family abusing dad...
I'm a hardline Railroadie but the Institute isn't THE evil faction. Just as the Minutemen are the ultimate good, the Nuka-World Raiders are the ultimate evil. Siding with them past the generator questline, sending them to the Commonwealth to take over your own settlements, I think that's worse than siding with the Institute. Even if Gage disagrees.
Kill Dance get Sentinel PA paint, kill Maxson get the drippiest of pimp coats in all of F4, either way be looking fly AF
Why not both? 🤷♂️
2:35 Seeing Nick standing next to Maxsom while talking down about the Institute's creation is a funny visual 😅
The cleansing of Far Harbor is actually my favorite route, but instead of your method I first side with the institute, then dusable the wind turbines for the children of atom perk reward and as soon as I claim it I activate the launch codes. Once thats done I go to the institute to start a quest to reclaim the acadia synth (DiMA included). Also works if you side with the brotherhood.
What I thought was strange is I already discovered Billy’s parents house before I found him. So I fast travelled there with him right away, yet somehow Bullet still showed up with a small crew. I like to think he was close to me when I fast travelled so he tracked us to the house instead of the initial interaction most people had.
Cito is one of my favorite npc, and I fortunately always succeed to convince him, by having charisma at 10
The stuff with Cabot house is so wild.
Freeing Lorenzo is hilarious
He didnt gave everything, the pipboy stayed on.
convincing the institute scientist to leave and help the brotherhood but destroying the brotherhood anyway
There is actually a pretty good reason to side with the İnstitute - you don't have to create another huge ass nuclear crater just near the Diamond City. Radstorm immediately starts when you reach that area, every time, after you blow up the İnstitute. And you have an actual chance to use its technologies to help people. Especially with some mods, for example, i put a couple of new, armored synth guards at every little farm. İf only i could occupy the İnstitute with the Minutemen instead of destroying it, i would happily do it.
Funniest one i did was killing Paul Pembroke right in front of his wife in their apartment, running from security and staying away for 3 days. You come back to his body still in their apartment and she still asks about him going missing.
You'd have to be a seriously hardline Brotherhood asshole to kill Danse.
I didn't care for the BoS as a whole in FO4, but Danse never did me wrong. That big dumb brick was always there for me.
I think u should have picked siding with Sierra in that cappy quest since u will Miss out on a nuka launcher plus u can sell Billy kill bullet and still take him home
3:37 I’m so sorry, but this line delivery cracks me up everytime I hear it 😂😭
0:30 i did not kill paladin danse
I killed the whole brotherhood of steel with infinite health and an ak after waiting for 15 minutes for liberty prime to take a step
The „Ad Victorian brother“ after you killed danse hits hard ngl
Kills Danse because the BOS hates synths...
Nick Valentine photobombing while the others discuss what to do with Danse's body
Perfect game, 10/10!
I was almost going to mention that another cursed decision would be to get banished from the institute but let’s face it, the institute is literally useless and I honestly can’t think of any good reason to work with them. Making enemies with the institute is arguably more fun than to rival with. I also have a bit of bias because I banished myself in my favorite play through.
Looking at all disguised robots in fiction. Ive always wondered how a situation would turn out if the one accused of being a robot but no one could prove said something like "all these numbers scrolling by are telling me this but that couldn't be right..." Ive always wondered how they never knew that they weren't a real person.
Ths fact nick valentine is just straight detecting as you ripe danse apart 😂
I never felt even slightly evil siding with the institute.
Stay away from schools with that obviously broken moral compass ^^
Well that was my choice too. I sided with my own kid. Also if you ask yourself that you want to live in a scrap-town or what you have seen in the institute. EZ choice.
14:12 How is supposed to be a cursed choice? Covenant’s safe test can identify synths spatially, but with more testing it would perfectly work out, I don’t see this as a horrible choice but a slight feel of hope for a way to identify and terminate synths.
I always considered siding with the institute to be the most morally responsible option for humanity, they have the best chance out of all the factions to bring unification and a better future through technology than any of the other factions. they are the least corruptible and far exceed potential to bring lasting peace.
To be honest I thought that as well until I dug further in their lore and I think the minutemen are the best option for humanity.
I personally like to think with the Sole Survivor being the new director, they could change how the Institute works for the better, like putting emphasis on researching ways to purify water for the commonwealth or provide cures for diseases.
And if anyone objects… well dictatorship is always an option!
To "ask for money" Erin in the mission "Here citty, citty"
Valentine was judging you so hard for killing Danse.
Generation 3 model Synths in Fallout 4 don't have "circuits"! They are artificial and fully organic human beings, including their brain -- which is why they are so hard to identify, as the only artificial thing inside them is that control chip the Institute put in their brain. They were assembled in adult form from 3D-printed organs and bones, very similar to the "cloning" scene in the movie The Fifth Element. But Gen3 Synth are organic, albeit with improvements like immunity to radioactivity -- similar to the Replicants in _Blade Runner_ (who are fully organic, too, they live, breathe, eat and age, unlike the novel where the "androids" are clearly robotic underneath the human appearance).
It's the Institute's older Synth models who are robotic: Generation 1 (fully robotic), Generation 2 (androids with outwards human appearance and copied human memories, like Nick Valentine).
The Child Ghoul would have turned Feral.
Blind Betrayal is one of the many reasons I love the BOS story line, it also was the reason I stopped trying to romance Piper and started to try to romance Synth Curie
Did you make this to celebrate the next gen upgrade for the game? It's coming on the 25th if I recall.
Is there any news on if mods on console version will still work?
Funny seeing Arthur speaking angry about Danse being a synth while Nick stands near him, being absolute obvious synth 🤣
Even early in the game when you meet Piper and the community think the Synths aren't real, it's all just conspiracy theory that some believe and some don't, but they have Valentine residing right there with them the whole time.
I get scolded because I never kill Danse at least after my first play through
So with dance, it makes me wonder about the brotherhood. After watching the show. Like have the brotherhood indoctrinated and brainwashed their members so bad, that Danse will commit sewer slide once learning that he’s not a real human.
Like he’s done so much good in the wasteland, but he still thinks of himself as evil.
Somewhat each time I get to the Pillars of the Community for the first time, a Vertibird always come by and fell down towards the place, and just about my current playthrough it killed about almost everyone including Thomas lmao
Kid in the fridge my guess is the fridge helped him receive gradual radiation over time to sustain him over the years. Now the reason he's not a feral goul probably boils down to how strong minded the kid was.
That “you useless piece of sh^t” line really caught me off guard. lol
Every playthrough, I sell Billy to Bullet for as much money as I can squeeze out of him, then kill Bullet, and take Billy home.
The way you transition from selling a kid to an ad is actually insane 😭😭😭💀
Cait hating that you stopped the lynch mob from burning Arcadia down xD this woman
Never found scapping synths a problem. Thomas always gets it. Robbing people of everything is death sentence in Fallout. Ghoul kid slave, murder Cito and kill all Far Harbour can't justify. Fallout is frontieer justice after all.
The only good synth is a number #2?
Strong words, strong words