Rob Bell says "Love Wins" is sparking evangelism
Вставка
- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- To watch the full debate visit www.premier.tv/...
Rob Bell in conversation with Adrian Warnock on whether the view that all will be saved leads to evangelistic complacency.
Rob Bell is the founding pastor of Mars Hill Bible Church, Grandville Michigan. His latest book "Love Wins: Heaven, Hell and the fate of every person who ever lived" has ignited a theological firestorm. He debated the issues with UK Church blogger Adrian Warnock on Justin Brierley's UK faith discussion radio show "Unbelievable?" in April 2011.
To hear more theology & faith debates visit www.premier.org...
Follow Justin Brierley on Twitter / unbelievablejb
Bear up, Rob! May the Lord continue to grant you the strength to keep the conversation going!!!
Both Bell and Warnock are concerned about telling people about the resurrection. How about telling them that there is a resurrection unto eternal life as well as a resurrection unto eternal damnation (John 5:29)
..because we both believe that God came to earth, in the form of his son Yeshua, to die for our sins, and to save us. That is central to both our belief systems, it is single handedly the most important aspect of our belief system. We may differ in what we've been saved from, you may say hell, I may say ourselves and our own natural wickedness, but we both believe we needed salvation more than anything, and God granted it to us. So tell me, how am I a heretic?
To insinuate Rob Bell believes he knows the answers to all of the questions he raises in his book is erroneous. I came away from the book feeling better about the opportunity people have to eternally be a part of God's Kingdom, but I did not think Rob Bell believes he has a right or wrong answer to his suppositions as the interviewer implies.
Thank you again for having the courage to stand by your' convictions. I hear the others condemning you for it and what comes to my mind immediately is how the Pharisees were always railing on Jesus for his seeming disregard for the Law. The Sabath made for man, etc. We must all remember that Jesus was crucified for blasphemy.
Given time more people will discover that many of our medieval interpretations didn't reflect what the original biblical text meant. Rob just found that earlier and remains courageous. And not alone.
@john17v17 Sin should always weigh heavy on the conscience, because although it's been payed for through the blood of Yeshua, anyone who sins should be ashamed of themselves, because even though they know why our Lord died, they take advantage of it. That is the main problem with traditionalists, is that you feel that universalists and annihilationists galavant around with a clear conscience and a free will based on "it's okay to sin". I am an annihilationist, and that is not my mindset.
@XxLatinoxX
Jesus spoke more on hell than anything else. Was He not spreading the Word of God?
@XxLatinoxX
I never said that every word that came from Jesus' mouth was about hell. I think it's just the other way around. Today's so-called post modern intellectuals think they know the meaning of "these big time spiritual words" but they are completely ignorant of their meaning. Rob Bell has proved this over and over in his book "Love Wins."
His example of the guy committing adultery is that "He's jacking up his life". He says repent, but never says that the man actually offend and committed this against GOD. That's a COMPLETELY different response than someone like David who did the same thing.
Psalm 51:4 "Against you, you only, have I sinned
and done what is evil in your sight"
One scripture that I've been thinking about is "But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked." Luke 12:48 We're judged on how we use what we're given or what we do with what we have. i also think maybe there are as many paths to God as people that have lived, are alive now and will live in the future...
@lessingtom Contrary to popular belief, people don't need to be scared into being Christians. what kind of honest, genuine faith can come from that?
So true! The Bible says it is His kindness which draws man unto repentance.
Of course, Rob Bell's questions are honest questions. But he is putting doubts in the minds of people about scripture; and i am concerned that he is pushing more people to hell because of what he is doing. As far as i am concerned, Rob's questions are humanly & reasonably valid but not Scripturally valid. This is the very reason why the Bible teaches in James 3 to not let many become teachers, for they will be judge stricter.
When Bell uses the illustration of the guy in his congregation committing adultery, he says that the real consequences are here and now - ruining his life, his kids, etc. Bell then says that as to "later", meaning the afterlife ..."who knows what happens then?"
That's my problem with Bell. We don't have to wonder "who knows?" Scripture clearly states that adulterers who don't repent go to hell. No ambiguity, period. But Bell just discounts Scripture entirely. Why?
Many different Christians interpret the Bible many different ways. You're saying that if someone who is saved who has given their life to Jesus has an affair and for some reason dies before they repent and turn from that since they're going to go to hell. However the Bible teaches us that once we accept Jesus as our savior we are saved and will go to heaven. If salvation is not contingent upon our works then even if we die in sin, if we are saved we will still go to heaven. Otherwise, our salvation is contingent upon our own deeds.
He doesn't. The wage of sin is death. If the wage of sin, is another life in torment, the bible contradicts. So, your understanding of hell, is probably in error.
Yes...Jesus was just joking about sin and it's costs...the joke was pretty convincing too , he even let himself be arrested, falsely accused, beaten, spat on , stripped naked and nailed to a cross until he died. A very elaborate joke .
God Don't send dead to Hell. He sends them to Detroit
Wich christ does he mean???
@patty7beth
"But Bell just discounts Scripture entirely. Why?" Well, the reason is that he is not following the Jesus of the Bible but a counterfeit Jesus who is telling him all these lies. His involvement with New Age practices such as yoga has opened him up to demonic influences (1 Tim 4:1)
One thing about people who say "The Bible clearly states" might be forgetting is that everything a person calims to understand is based on perception, or how a person views the world around them. Scary concept right? You learn about the world and everything in it based on your previous knowledge of what you've seen before...
@XxLatinoxX
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Sometimes it's necessary to put the fear of the Lord in people.
@XxLatinoxX
Do you think Jesus was scaring people into being Christians when He warned them about hell in Luke 13: 2, 3: "Do you think that these Galileans were greater sinners than all the other Galileans because they have suffered in this way? I tell you, No; but unless you repent change your mind for the better and heartily amend your ways, with abhorrence of your past sins, you will all likewise perish and be lost eternally.
Luk 13:2 "And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish"---Perish means rot or decay into the earth aka as death...Repent means change your mind about who Jesus is...see Him as the only one who can save you from believing "The LIE" that God has "forsaken you" and no longer Loves you..Believe that God Loves you and sent His son to give you Eternal Life and not Death
@john146only Thank you, I appreciate that.
@john17v17 There is a number or arguments I can make, there is a plethora of verses I can quote, but a seasoned debater such as you knows that you won't change what's in my heart, and vice versa. I believe that not accepting Yeshua as Lord and savior will inevitably lead you to the second death, but you and I have completely different interpretations of what the second death is. So, I suggest that we end the debate, and I also suggest that you don't be pharisee like when talking to your brothers
yes. absolutely, i have friends who wanted nothing to do with Christianity, and they're reading this book like "woah."
Annnnd they deleted the debate from their site. Dead link. Wtf.
I don't mean religions when I say paths. I believe we have to try to have a relationship with God. That goes beyond religious rituals. I don't think there's a formula for getting into heaven... maybe not hell either... I do want to point out that I'm saying "I think", not "I know". I'm willing to except I'm wrong and want to be open minded... I like what Rob says about rabbis debating what they think a scripture means.
Bell wants to leave you with the impression that Jesus came to this world to make it a better place right here and now - to set up his Kingdom RIGHT NOW. This world (kingdom) is still run by the god of this kingdom-Satan himself. Jesus came to this world to seek and to find the lost. He cannot find people who do not want to know they are lost (on their way to hell). That's why he said "They that are whole (who think they're OK) need not a physician; but they that are sick. (Luke 5:31).
Why give a human being the desire for knowledge and understaqnding if they're jsut supposed to follow rules and then everything goes ok? In the Bible Job, follows the rules and he still loses everything. He questions God and God responses by saying "Who made the world and everything in it Job? Do you get how it all works?" Can we ever understand everything about a Being that has no beginning or end? I feel like someone is going to say God is a heart jerk when they read this comment.
@lessingtom i don't know what bible you were reading. But every word out of Jesus' mouth was not "hell"...he spoke of parables. The people whom he spoke to weren't aware of these big time spiritual words because it didn't matter to him. I believe that Rob simply was trying to say that the acknowledgement and acceptance of love and eternal salvation from Jesus Christ are more necessary in the life of new believers and those giving this christian faith a try, whom are the majority of his audience.
@john17v17 So you're that quick to discard me as a brother in Christ, because I use foul language, and don't interpret the scriptures exactly like you or the pastor who interpreted them for you (if be the case). I am just as good a person as you, foul language and all. You also create a classification of "true believer", as to say I am not a true believer, like you consider yourself to be, which makes no sense and I'll tell you why...
@XxLatinoxX
No one can be saved unless they understand and acknowledge that they are lost, which means "on there way to hell." Jesus said: "For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost." (Luke 19:10)
@XxLatinoxX
Yep! I would say it's dumb to believe there is no hell and that everyone, even Satan and his fallen angels, are all eventually going to heaven.
@lessingtom haha i'm glad you're spending all your time on youtube instead of trying to spread the word of God.
@XxLatinoxX
Popular belief has always been a little dicey. I wouldn't bet my life on popular belief. The Gospel of Jesus Christ has never been popular with the world.
I don't think God asks us to blindly accept him. If He respects us for the sophisticated creation He's supposed to have designed us as, then He's going to have to approach us in as human a fashion as possible right? Rob has said that's what Jesus was. God taking that plan, or putting on flesh and blood and just plain being one of us. Guess I'm defending Rob here lol. In my case, I guess God gave me enough of a mind to say things like this so He probably expects me to promote the kingdom with it.
my question is doesnt adrian look like mike myers