Just speculation on my part - I think part of the reason we never hear him talk trash about DnD imo is simple guilt - it's because he told DnD he would be with done the series by the time the show caught up with the books, he promised them, and he didn't deliver. He gave them an almost impossible task and he knows it. So the only thing you hear him critique about DnD is that they rushed to the end, he wanted more seasons etc. So just ranting here, but what upsets Martin and what upsets me as a reader are so different it's wild. My biggest criticism of the show: I think the show-writers struggle to write the team-green storyline, and Alicent in particular, because they cannot understand the point of view of people who think this way, George doesn't have this issue, he can write from perspectives he may not share personally. Catelyn Stark is 100% cool with the patriarchy of Westros and literally thinks her duty to make as many babies as she can, and she's fine with arranging marriages for her daughters etc "Family, duty, honor" - She's not dumb, it's just all she knows, and it's been brainwashed into her since she was a kid. Compare this too Alicent in this show, I feel like the writers are just trying to humiliate the character, in a way that was never done with Catelyn Stark who is ideologically very similar to Alicent. In the books Alicent leads the defense of a city, she is the chief negotiator for the Green's at key turning points, is involved in every council decision, and wields significant power and influence, truly the daughter of Otto Hightower and a player in the game of thrones, in the show she is not these things, and it's only Olivia Cooke that saves the character imo. - This, to me, is a bigger problem going forward than "blood and cheese" could've been more powerful, and Maelor plot-points needing to a re-write. Mostly I'm pissed I gotta wait 2 years to see what's next..that's unacceptable, changes in adaptions I can except but this... no. I don't like it and you can't make me.
Perhaps it was an impossible task, but literally anyone could've written a better season 8, and that's unacceptable. Who has a better story than Bran The Broken? That character they binned in season 5 for a dreadful sequence set in Dorne. DnD began the downfall of the show long before they ran out of source material. And killing off the likes of Selmy because the actor was bugging them to be more faithful, or killing off Stannis simply because they didn't like him.. nah.
@@T0FFII I understand. DnD deserve every piece of criticism as much they do praise for the early stuff. Bran the Broken WAS George's idea, DnD took that bullet for him. I think that's why George doesn't criticism them publicly is because they did use idea's he had, even if people reacted poorly to them and the execution wasn't good - those were his ideas. Whereas with House of the Dragon it's possible the writers have potentially shifted away from his idea's on an already finished story, that people already enjoyed. So suddenly he's speaking out, even though most of this show has been fairly well received and there's way more positives than negatives imo.
This is such a good critique. I think being able to understand the perspective of *all* of your characters is extremely important to a story like this. The actors seem to understand and empathize just fine- but it’s probably much easier for them because they’re the ones who have to actually perform the story.
I don’t get the people saying he should have gone to Ryan personally to discuss the problems he was having, George literally says he DID go to Ryan about his concerns privately but Ryan then lied to George about having Maelor in the show seemingly to placate him.
George should know if he critises anything about the show all the readers gonna follow, thats like putting the book fans against the show fans, very bad for anyone, he said a character gonna die,thats a big spoiler and thats something a writer should know how bad it is, even if he disagrees he should respect the writers at least when the show its not over, and the most embarasing thing to me,he was the one who sold the rights,he's on this situation because he wanted. If he wanted a show word by word or produce the show himself he could do it, instead he sold the rights to HBO,thats why he looks like "old man yelling at a cloud".
In regards to why he’s speaking up about his grimes with HOTD but not GOT. I think if George chose to publicly air his concerns and criticisms about GOT either during its run or after it ended, people would have just dismissed him. Saying that it’s his own fault for not finishing the books so that D&D had material to work off of, or giving them a proper outline for how the story would end. This situation however, is different. HOTD is a finished story, with source material at the writers disposal. Sure, it might be a bit difficult to adapt than a novel, but it’s still a great template to use, despite this, the writers choose to make big changes where they’re not really needed for whatever reason. This might be why George feel more confident and willing to state his opinions this time around
George should've finished the story no doubt, but DnD sowed the seeds of the show's downfall long before they ran out of book material. And what they did have they could've extended with more seasons. Instead they wanted to rush off an do Star Wars. That went well didn't it.
If he doesnt want drastic changes in his work, he should put in a clause for final approval of the scripts when he sells the rights. Of course it would be more difficult to sell and probably for less money and he would have to do more work reading all the scripts and working to get them right. Easier to sell one work and then move on to sell the next and the next while raking in the bucks and procrastinating on finishing ASOIAF.
It's quite amazing how a scene from one episode of HOTD has spawned this huge drama between George, HBO, the showrunners, fans.. Not even season 8 got this kind of response & as far as I'm aware we still don't even know George's thoughts on the ending to Thrones? Probably would've been another deleted blog post ha. I'd love to know why the show has budget problems though.. unless HBO are just being tight sods, the follow-up to their most lucrative show ever should be given all the money it needs to do it as best as you can. This isn't like the season 1 budget Thrones had, at that point no one knew it would become a phenomenon. And you're right they lopped off 2 episodes & still had budget problems? really? That don't sound good. "millions of fans the series has amassed over the first two seasons will continue to enjoy it" as said by HBO.. season 2 has also been increasingly divisive for a lot of the fans, the way it ended, Daemon spending 6 episodes in Luigi's mansion, the changes to Alicent's character.. I personally enjoyed the season but the negative feelings from people are undeniable. Ultimately if this kind of treatment of his work continues I could see George ending the relationship with them, whether that means it could go elsewhere or he would just not allow adaptations to happen. anw brilliant video, Caoili you hit the nail on every head perfectly 💚💚
@T0FFII I really want to hear George's thoughts on Daemon this season since he previously dubbed him his favourite character and he is also one of the main characters people had major issues with this season. Now that's a blogpost I'd imagine would sour relationships😂 Dragon Demands has spoken previously about some of the organisational issue at hbo including cutting budgets and episodes on major flagship shows, I definitely recommend checking them out! But it's some seriously unhinged and unreasonable behaviour. As for cutting ties w hbo altogether, I don't know if I think he'd go that far but if he did, I wouldn't blame him and would be happy to continue supporting any books to come (it might even help speed along the books to remove the distraction that the TV adaptations are causing). Whatever the outcome of all this, we'll be here to witness! And thank you kindly, pleasure as always to catch up🐉💚
@@SinXerxes There's no doubting the shows are the reason ASOIAF hasn't been finished yet, and I want that to be done above anything else I can't lie lmao. 💚
@@SutterKrump You mean don't have discussions in our free time about fictional work which we enjoy reading/watching? Food for thought, friend. Why are you even here lol. Maybe don't focus on being a hater toward people doing you literally no harm.
I think you have it right about his input into season 1 vs season 2. I assume they do not want to wander off script too far though. Look what happened when they jumped ahead in GoT without source material. So my guess would be they would try and include George as much as possible this time. Off topic, but look what happens when you go off track with source material with the rings of power for example. They are lucky to have a series with a live author and should definitely listen to him.
Awesome video it was really interesting i hadn’t read the books so i was unaware of the changes they made its sad to see the show runners aren’t letting them make the show this series deserves
Hes mostly upset because they bungled the blood and cheese plot, didnt introduce Maelor into the story whose crucial to the rioting in Kings Landing plot. If Rhaenyra is to return to Dragon Stone, we need both of those plot lines to work but now it doesnt seem they can🤷♂️
Blood and Fire is not told from multiple point of view characters like ASoIaF is, it's like a fake history book, told from various historic sources with the author of the history book serving as a narrator. An example is each source has a different version of what happens to Beesbury, so its uncertain what exactly happened to him in the book. One of these sources is a fool called Mushroom and their version of events is generally the most sensational. A big part of adapting the show is deciding which of these conflicting versions of what happened to use and pretty much nothing in the show has gone down how Mushroom told it so expecting Blood and Cheese to be any different baffles me. If you really think about it Mushroom not being in the show would mean that his testimony is all bullshit anyway in the shows version of the story.
Even if Mushroom's account is unreliable, it would be based on events that mostly happened, but were sensationalised and blown out of proportion by him. That doesn't mean they didnt happen outright. The show is doing away with these elements, not to "reliably adapt Fire and Blood" but simply to do the same simplification game any tv series has - character and location efficiency to maximize the budget in key episodes. Thats what this season was. It has nothing to do with differences in perspectives in F&B and everything to do with what they want to change it into. Thats why im out. There not adapting George. Theyre using elements of his world to tell their own story, like Hollywood always dares to do, before they hide behind the "different mediums" excuse. Its bullshit. Everything they cut out from the story would have been leagues better than what they replaced it with and changed it into. How is that not evident to everyone?! When you keep to GRRM, you win, when you don't, you die.... History has proven this many times over in the last decade. Why even argue with it?
@@humbleopulence Yeah so you take the events as described and you make them less sensational, then you get what we got so I don't see the problem. The show does not have to be GRRM's vision to be good. Changing things, like adding Talisa to the red wedding can be improvements. HBO cutting the budget hurt the show, as it would any show, but that does not support this weird narrative you have going on. Go read Inversions.
with regards to b&c and helaena offering up the necklace- i do agree that obviously it’s silly to offer up a necklace in the face of your son getting murdered so i did hate it at first. however the sequence became much more compelling for me on rewatch bc i did notice in the “im scared of the rats” scene she looked directly at the spot where J gets murdered. So i do think she might have had some sort of premonition beforehand, but i don’t think she knew what it was about. i think as the scene unfolds, she begins to realize what that vision was foretelling, and how fruitless she is to stop it. in that regard, i think her offering up her necklace works, because it’s a desperate, futile move on her part to at least try and stop it, even though she knows it won’t work. Watching that scene where she points to ‘the boy’ with that hauntingly horrified & petrified look on her face just feels so much more devastating with that knowledge. I do think that it’s what the writers were going for as well, esp with the directional choices to focus on helaena’s eyes, her pointer finger and her premature sewing of her son’s funeral shroud (in the beginning of the episode). and ryan did mention something about how helaena is becoming more aware of her visions and starting to realize how they relate to the events happening around her, which i think does make sense if you think of b&c as the catalyst for that awakening. this also makes me digest her scenes in the later season a lot better because they did feel a little too on the nose for me lol. at this point i just really need some inferiority from helaena, and i think it’s a shame they didn’t use this season to explore that further but hopefully we get some payoff of her cassandra arc in season 3.
Gosh, where did you come from? Don’t be shy with your accent that just makes you more appealing Damn those eyes are perfect (I’m straight but can’t help but be poetic so I’ll quit while I’m behind) 😘
Yeah I’m wondering. I’m not a native English speaker so I don’t have the right ear for it, but is this a very mellowed-down Scottish accent? Or something Australian? Pretty cool either way.
@@wilgefortisohlin568 i’m pretty sure Irish, but trying an American attitude with it is my guess and I think it’s fine the way it is being Irish with the Americans or so many would say more appealing to me as a guy I am just a regular straight white guy, which apparently is a crime. That’s all the insight I can provide you thank you for being pleasant.
I knew I lost touch with the HOTD crowd when I realized they all thought Daemon's Harrenhaal bullshit was entertaining. Maybe I'll just wait out for a scene pack for all the action stuff, because the "interesting downtime" absolutely isn't there anymore, except maybe for Punished Aegon.
This is some really high tier unintentional asmr
Real life Targaryen right here
Just speculation on my part - I think part of the reason we never hear him talk trash about DnD imo is simple guilt - it's because he told DnD he would be with done the series by the time the show caught up with the books, he promised them, and he didn't deliver. He gave them an almost impossible task and he knows it. So the only thing you hear him critique about DnD is that they rushed to the end, he wanted more seasons etc. So just ranting here, but what upsets Martin and what upsets me as a reader are so different it's wild. My biggest criticism of the show: I think the show-writers struggle to write the team-green storyline, and Alicent in particular, because they cannot understand the point of view of people who think this way, George doesn't have this issue, he can write from perspectives he may not share personally. Catelyn Stark is 100% cool with the patriarchy of Westros and literally thinks her duty to make as many babies as she can, and she's fine with arranging marriages for her daughters etc "Family, duty, honor" - She's not dumb, it's just all she knows, and it's been brainwashed into her since she was a kid. Compare this too Alicent in this show, I feel like the writers are just trying to humiliate the character, in a way that was never done with Catelyn Stark who is ideologically very similar to Alicent. In the books Alicent leads the defense of a city, she is the chief negotiator for the Green's at key turning points, is involved in every council decision, and wields significant power and influence, truly the daughter of Otto Hightower and a player in the game of thrones, in the show she is not these things, and it's only Olivia Cooke that saves the character imo. - This, to me, is a bigger problem going forward than "blood and cheese" could've been more powerful, and Maelor plot-points needing to a re-write. Mostly I'm pissed I gotta wait 2 years to see what's next..that's unacceptable, changes in adaptions I can except but this... no. I don't like it and you can't make me.
Perhaps it was an impossible task, but literally anyone could've written a better season 8, and that's unacceptable. Who has a better story than Bran The Broken? That character they binned in season 5 for a dreadful sequence set in Dorne. DnD began the downfall of the show long before they ran out of source material. And killing off the likes of Selmy because the actor was bugging them to be more faithful, or killing off Stannis simply because they didn't like him.. nah.
@@T0FFII I understand. DnD deserve every piece of criticism as much they do praise for the early stuff. Bran the Broken WAS George's idea, DnD took that bullet for him. I think that's why George doesn't criticism them publicly is because they did use idea's he had, even if people reacted poorly to them and the execution wasn't good - those were his ideas. Whereas with House of the Dragon it's possible the writers have potentially shifted away from his idea's on an already finished story, that people already enjoyed. So suddenly he's speaking out, even though most of this show has been fairly well received and there's way more positives than negatives imo.
This is such a good critique. I think being able to understand the perspective of *all* of your characters is extremely important to a story like this. The actors seem to understand and empathize just fine- but it’s probably much easier for them because they’re the ones who have to actually perform the story.
I don’t get the people saying he should have gone to Ryan personally to discuss the problems he was having, George literally says he DID go to Ryan about his concerns privately but Ryan then lied to George about having Maelor in the show seemingly to placate him.
George should know if he critises anything about the show all the readers gonna follow, thats like putting the book fans against the show fans, very bad for anyone, he said a character gonna die,thats a big spoiler and thats something a writer should know how bad it is, even if he disagrees he should respect the writers at least when the show its not over, and the most embarasing thing to me,he was the one who sold the rights,he's on this situation because he wanted. If he wanted a show word by word or produce the show himself he could do it, instead he sold the rights to HBO,thats why he looks like "old man yelling at a cloud".
Lady Death in the background, I love this comic.
In regards to why he’s speaking up about his grimes with HOTD but not GOT. I think if George chose to publicly air his concerns and criticisms about GOT either during its run or after it ended, people would have just dismissed him. Saying that it’s his own fault for not finishing the books so that D&D had material to work off of, or giving them a proper outline for how the story would end. This situation however, is different. HOTD is a finished story, with source material at the writers disposal. Sure, it might be a bit difficult to adapt than a novel, but it’s still a great template to use, despite this, the writers choose to make big changes where they’re not really needed for whatever reason. This might be why George feel more confident and willing to state his opinions this time around
George should've finished the story no doubt, but DnD sowed the seeds of the show's downfall long before they ran out of book material. And what they did have they could've extended with more seasons. Instead they wanted to rush off an do Star Wars. That went well didn't it.
How has hbo not learned thier lesson?? The last few seasons of GOT shouldve been more than enough. Its hard being a fan these days
Her eyes are so mesmerising, I cannot concentrate.
There's a piece of metal in her nose for some reason. That doesn't bother you? Is it a medical condition?
@@SutterKrump Are you serious?
@@Aegon23 do you have any reason to suspect that t I am not serious?
@@SutterKrump Not at all. You may be right. Maybe, her piercing is in fact a disease, who knows? I don't.
@@Aegon23 ponyal, prinyal, zapisal)
If he doesnt want drastic changes in his work, he should put in a clause for final approval of the scripts when he sells the rights. Of course it would be more difficult to sell and probably for less money and he would have to do more work reading all the scripts and working to get them right. Easier to sell one work and then move on to sell the next and the next while raking in the bucks and procrastinating on finishing ASOIAF.
That's bull. Your clause doesn't exist. It's made-up.
Great video! Color balance is very blue though it makes me feel cold just looking at it
It likely was an email but they aren’t listening to him and he’s been complaining about the same shit for 10 years
True, I doubt he was withholding his criticism just to make an epic roast on his blog after the season ends 😅
It's quite amazing how a scene from one episode of HOTD has spawned this huge drama between George, HBO, the showrunners, fans.. Not even season 8 got this kind of response & as far as I'm aware we still don't even know George's thoughts on the ending to Thrones? Probably would've been another deleted blog post ha.
I'd love to know why the show has budget problems though.. unless HBO are just being tight sods, the follow-up to their most lucrative show ever should be given all the money it needs to do it as best as you can. This isn't like the season 1 budget Thrones had, at that point no one knew it would become a phenomenon. And you're right they lopped off 2 episodes & still had budget problems? really? That don't sound good.
"millions of fans the series has amassed over the first two seasons will continue to enjoy it" as said by HBO.. season 2 has also been increasingly divisive for a lot of the fans, the way it ended, Daemon spending 6 episodes in Luigi's mansion, the changes to Alicent's character.. I personally enjoyed the season but the negative feelings from people are undeniable. Ultimately if this kind of treatment of his work continues I could see George ending the relationship with them, whether that means it could go elsewhere or he would just not allow adaptations to happen.
anw brilliant video, Caoili you hit the nail on every head perfectly
💚💚
@T0FFII I really want to hear George's thoughts on Daemon this season since he previously dubbed him his favourite character and he is also one of the main characters people had major issues with this season. Now that's a blogpost I'd imagine would sour relationships😂
Dragon Demands has spoken previously about some of the organisational issue at hbo including cutting budgets and episodes on major flagship shows, I definitely recommend checking them out! But it's some seriously unhinged and unreasonable behaviour.
As for cutting ties w hbo altogether, I don't know if I think he'd go that far but if he did, I wouldn't blame him and would be happy to continue supporting any books to come (it might even help speed along the books to remove the distraction that the TV adaptations are causing).
Whatever the outcome of all this, we'll be here to witness! And thank you kindly, pleasure as always to catch up🐉💚
@@SinXerxes There's no doubting the shows are the reason ASOIAF hasn't been finished yet, and I want that to be done above anything else I can't lie lmao. 💚
@@T0FFIImaybe we should focus on real life instead of obsessing about fairy tales and books that don't even exist in the real world? Food for thought
@@SutterKrump You mean don't have discussions in our free time about fictional work which we enjoy reading/watching? Food for thought, friend. Why are you even here lol. Maybe don't focus on being a hater toward people doing you literally no harm.
@@T0FFII at least talk about something else and not about incest dwarf s3x. George RR Martin is nuts
The episode cuts were over HBO's head.
I think you have it right about his input into season 1 vs season 2. I assume they do not want to wander off script too far though. Look what happened when they jumped ahead in GoT without source material. So my guess would be they would try and include George as much as possible this time. Off topic, but look what happens when you go off track with source material with the rings of power for example. They are lucky to have a series with a live author and should definitely listen to him.
Awesome video it was really interesting i hadn’t read the books so i was unaware of the changes they made its sad to see the show runners aren’t letting them make the show this series deserves
Hes mostly upset because they bungled the blood and cheese plot, didnt introduce Maelor into the story whose crucial to the rioting in Kings Landing plot. If Rhaenyra is to return to Dragon Stone, we need both of those plot lines to work but now it doesnt seem they can🤷♂️
Blood and Fire is not told from multiple point of view characters like ASoIaF is, it's like a fake history book, told from various historic sources with the author of the history book serving as a narrator. An example is each source has a different version of what happens to Beesbury, so its uncertain what exactly happened to him in the book. One of these sources is a fool called Mushroom and their version of events is generally the most sensational. A big part of adapting the show is deciding which of these conflicting versions of what happened to use and pretty much nothing in the show has gone down how Mushroom told it so expecting Blood and Cheese to be any different baffles me. If you really think about it Mushroom not being in the show would mean that his testimony is all bullshit anyway in the shows version of the story.
Even if Mushroom's account is unreliable, it would be based on events that mostly happened, but were sensationalised and blown out of proportion by him. That doesn't mean they didnt happen outright.
The show is doing away with these elements, not to "reliably adapt Fire and Blood" but simply to do the same simplification game any tv series has - character and location efficiency to maximize the budget in key episodes. Thats what this season was. It has nothing to do with differences in perspectives in F&B and everything to do with what they want to change it into.
Thats why im out. There not adapting George. Theyre using elements of his world to tell their own story, like Hollywood always dares to do, before they hide behind the "different mediums" excuse. Its bullshit. Everything they cut out from the story would have been leagues better than what they replaced it with and changed it into. How is that not evident to everyone?!
When you keep to GRRM, you win, when you don't, you die.... History has proven this many times over in the last decade. Why even argue with it?
@@humbleopulence Yeah so you take the events as described and you make them less sensational, then you get what we got so I don't see the problem. The show does not have to be GRRM's vision to be good. Changing things, like adding Talisa to the red wedding can be improvements. HBO cutting the budget hurt the show, as it would any show, but that does not support this weird narrative you have going on. Go read Inversions.
You looklike Shiera Seastar imo
Isai Pine
with regards to b&c and helaena offering up the necklace- i do agree that obviously it’s silly to offer up a necklace in the face of your son getting murdered so i did hate it at first.
however the sequence became much more compelling for me on rewatch bc i did notice in the “im scared of the rats” scene she looked directly at the spot where J gets murdered. So i do think she might have had some sort of premonition beforehand, but i don’t think she knew what it was about.
i think as the scene unfolds, she begins to realize what that vision was foretelling, and how fruitless she is to stop it. in that regard, i think her offering up her necklace works, because it’s a desperate, futile move on her part to at least try and stop it, even though she knows it won’t work. Watching that scene where she points to ‘the boy’ with that hauntingly horrified & petrified look on her face just feels so much more devastating with that knowledge. I do think that it’s what the writers were going for as well, esp with the directional choices to focus on helaena’s eyes, her pointer finger and her premature sewing of her son’s funeral shroud (in the beginning of the episode).
and ryan did mention something about how helaena is becoming more aware of her visions and starting to realize how they relate to the events happening around her, which i think does make sense if you think of b&c as the catalyst for that awakening. this also makes me digest her scenes in the later season a lot better because they did feel a little too on the nose for me lol. at this point i just really need some inferiority from helaena, and i think it’s a shame they didn’t use this season to explore that further but hopefully we get some payoff of her cassandra arc in season 3.
Gosh, where did you come from?
Don’t be shy with your accent that just makes you more appealing
Damn those eyes are perfect
(I’m straight but can’t help but be poetic so I’ll quit while I’m behind) 😘
Yeah I’m wondering. I’m not a native English speaker so I don’t have the right ear for it, but is this a very mellowed-down Scottish accent? Or something Australian? Pretty cool either way.
@@wilgefortisohlin568 i’m pretty sure Irish, but trying an American attitude with it is my guess and I think it’s fine the way it is being Irish with the Americans or so many would say more appealing to me as a guy I am just a regular straight white guy, which apparently is a crime. That’s all the insight I can provide you thank you for being pleasant.
I turned this show off after episode 6 or so first season. It's trash.
Why are you even here then. I stopped watching Rings of Power after a few eps, I don't comment on videos about it..
Yeah this chick is crazy😂
Crazy hot😍😍
Season 2 is complete awful, yo can said never "Good season" sond so stupid
It's definitely not complete awful.
@T0FFII S2 is ATROCIOUS start to end. Almost 80% of scenes are ridiculous
The sad truth is that yes there are only a few good scenes in the entire season.
When you write a comment, you should try reading it aloud to yourself before posting.
I knew I lost touch with the HOTD crowd when I realized they all thought Daemon's Harrenhaal bullshit was entertaining. Maybe I'll just wait out for a scene pack for all the action stuff, because the "interesting downtime" absolutely isn't there anymore, except maybe for Punished Aegon.