Dune inspired Game of Thrones? (live with Aziz)

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  • Опубліковано 4 лют 2025
  • Talking about Dune and ASOIAF with Aziz from History of Westeros!
    History of Westeros: / @historyofwesteros
    Most of this stream has no major spoilers for Dune. We'll warn you when we mention big spoilers.
    Subscribe: / @altshiftx
    Support on Patreon: / altshiftx
    Twitter: / altshiftx
    Alt Shift X Podcast: / @altshiftxpodcast
    Alt Shift X Audio Podcast: anchor.fm/alt-...
    ASX merch: standard.tv/al...

КОМЕНТАРІ • 380

  • @Tedscwa
    @Tedscwa Рік тому +408

    I would watch an Alt Shift X Bionicle lore video of any length

    • @dumberdummer
      @dumberdummer Рік тому

      PLEASE

    • @shehansoysa571
      @shehansoysa571 Рік тому +8

      You watch the 9 hour Bionicle Lore vid from DuckBricks? 😂

    • @mariaandronic4029
      @mariaandronic4029 10 місяців тому +1

      Good ipf

    • @fabianqueitsch9779
      @fabianqueitsch9779 9 місяців тому

      @@shehansoysa571 at the same time i definitely need to watch it, but i will also know i am gonna cry

  • @LegoJunk128
    @LegoJunk128 Рік тому +103

    I’ve loved ASOIAF and Dune for a while, but you guys drew a lot of parallels between them that I never really meditated on before. This conversation honestly helped me better understand why I like both things. Please keep up the great work

    • @devinreese1397
      @devinreese1397 Рік тому +2

      Read Martin's science fiction earlier work. You'll see plenty especially in the House of the Worm with God Emperor. But it is also inspired by Time Machine, seemingly.

  • @friendlybane
    @friendlybane Рік тому +388

    When Jamis used his crysknife to castrate Theon Greyjoy, I knew that the whole thing was connected.

    • @blackfyre7096
      @blackfyre7096 Рік тому +6

      😂

    • @JohnV170
      @JohnV170 Рік тому

      That was Cersei not Jamie.

    • @6tiple6ix6afia
      @6tiple6ix6afia 11 місяців тому

      @JohnV170 go back to the short bus and don't return until you learn to read. No one said JAMIE and you are wrong REGARDLESS

    • @itzmyedits4630
      @itzmyedits4630 9 місяців тому +3

      ​@@JohnV170he is talking about dune jami💀 its a joke

  • @lostcause78
    @lostcause78 Рік тому +413

    I feel like Dany and Jon are two halves of Paul. With Jon having the background parallel to Paul with the honorable father and set of ethical standards, and Dany has the 'Chosen One wandering the desert, I'm a superior human and will guide the lesser people to better things/her personal Jihad' - part of the story.

    • @ser_ryon_vine6392
      @ser_ryon_vine6392 Рік тому +53

      With a little Bran thrown in cuz of the whole seeing the future thing.

    • @MarshallCake
      @MarshallCake Рік тому +36

      @@ser_ryon_vine6392 If you think about it Targaryens have premonition-like dreams

    • @Polo-wk7zl
      @Polo-wk7zl Рік тому +29

      @@ser_ryon_vine6392Nah, Bran is Leto II

    • @panzequest-1226
      @panzequest-1226 Рік тому +3

      Do you even know the meaning of the word jihad ☠️

    • @lostcause78
      @lostcause78 Рік тому +16

      @@panzequest-1226 Yes I do, both minor and major Jihad. I'm thinking you don't.

  • @JoshuaKevinPerry
    @JoshuaKevinPerry Рік тому +1363

    Cheating on Glimbus

    • @henrymorris6831
      @henrymorris6831 Рік тому +268

      Wdym… glimbus collabs with alt schwift x, both of whom hate alt shift x

    • @Glidus
      @Glidus Рік тому +643

      contrary to popular belief, i have NEVER worked with alt shift x. i'm a man of principles.

    • @praiha
      @praiha Рік тому +49

      Cheating on Quinn then

    • @yeahey5947
      @yeahey5947 Рік тому +29

      @@Glidusyet you’re here trolling his comments🤔stay classy glimbus

    • @thenamelessking375
      @thenamelessking375 Рік тому

      Yup

  • @paulg5507
    @paulg5507 Рік тому +19

    I love how through you I get such a niche content that feels like it's just MADE for me. Thanks so much :)

  • @skilledwarman
    @skilledwarman Рік тому +127

    Forget as an April fools, I'd love a lore series on Bionicles. I used to read the comics and there's alot of story there

    • @Dogmitry-Puplushka
      @Dogmitry-Puplushka Рік тому +4

      FACTS

    • @MrZombiekiller23
      @MrZombiekiller23 Рік тому +9

      wtf is Bionicles lol
      Edit: after searching Bionicles and unlocking a whole era of memories from my childhood loving LEGO and agree would love a series on it

    • @danielsilbermann
      @danielsilbermann 10 місяців тому

      @@Dogmitry-Puplushkaund dann noch mal uuuu

  • @MsPig1985
    @MsPig1985 Рік тому +56

    "You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it." - The Night King

  • @omikawi18
    @omikawi18 Рік тому +32

    Short answer : yes
    Long answer : this video
    Well worth the watch regardless!

  • @connerschupp4543
    @connerschupp4543 Рік тому +27

    I was here during the live chat and something Alt Shift didn’t talk about was the role of Jamis and Qhorin Halfhand and how it’s basically the same for the main character that slays them? The motif is used often in fantasy now but I can now clearly see Jon killing Qhorin Halfhand as Paul killing jamis, someone he thought was going to “lead” him through his next few steps in his life. Jon thought the same of the Halfhand on the ranging he went with him. Legendary ranger.
    Hope this comment gets a pin :)

  • @jeanpaulsinatra
    @jeanpaulsinatra Рік тому +18

    I always found it funny how everyone in the throniverse was like "oh good heavens, the Freys are such ghastly nouveau riche parvenus: they've only been landed aristocrats for six hundred years. Lord Walder deigns to marry his daughter off to Lord Tully, but we all know his great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather was a common fisherman. They'll never be fancy" and ASX was just like "the Lannisters are new money"

  • @davidwilkinson8836
    @davidwilkinson8836 Рік тому +63

    The Wildlings =The Fremen? As well as the attempt on Bran’s life = The hunter-seeker attempt to kill Paul.

    • @7teen238
      @7teen238 Рік тому +1

      nice

    • @juwebles4352
      @juwebles4352 Рік тому

      I'm not sure the fremen wildling parallel works that well, its works insofar that the great houses consider them a disorganized group of savages on the fringe of civilization that pose no real threat. The only difference is that in Asoiaf the great houses are kind of correct. Stannis whose army had suffered desertions, disease, and the battle of the blackwater and the nights watch that had grown so understrength it was considered a joke were able to beat Mance rayder's wildling army. Where as the sardaukar are repeatedly beaten by the fremen in open combat.

    • @Mordalon
      @Mordalon Рік тому +2

      @@juwebles4352 Instead of the truth being that they are a bunch of badasses, the great houses think the purpose of the Wall is to keep out the wildlings. Both are fundamentally misunderstood by "civilization" until the hero goes amongst them and learns their ways. Both also involve the hero in an early encounter with them meeting a woman trying to kill them but they fall in love.

    • @6tiple6ix6afia
      @6tiple6ix6afia 11 місяців тому

      juwebles4352 Ok and? Did you know there is not one single exact similarity between the two series? Imagine that. Wow. It's almost like plagiarism and taking inspiration are not the same thing. Whoa crazy! Do the Starks actually live on a water planet?! The Harks aren't eventually lead by a crazy blonde woman with 2 sons and a daughter made from incest? Leto doesn't get his head chopped off by a child king? Paul doesn't own a super wolf he warg into??! Wow you're right! The novels clearly have zero correlations!

    • @6tiple6ix6afia
      @6tiple6ix6afia 11 місяців тому

      @Mordalon i would not bother bro some people are extremely slow

  • @haydenhernandez2895
    @haydenhernandez2895 Рік тому +115

    I can’t believe Arya killed Leto II when she ate him out of the Kindly Man’s eye in AFFC!
    This is worse than when he said Jaime Lannister would just punch Hermione Granger to death.

    • @devinreese1397
      @devinreese1397 Рік тому +3

      See In the House of the Worm by Martin.

    • @6tiple6ix6afia
      @6tiple6ix6afia 11 місяців тому

      @woksippingwigga for five years olds

  • @AllTheArtsy
    @AllTheArtsy Рік тому +50

    I always enjoy Aziz's take on History of Westeros, and it was fun to see him here discussion Dune as well :) It is quite... funny (?) how both stories have gotten too big and complicated for the authors. Frank basically said, "oh no the characters are getting away" as he and his wife looked on. I really hope George manages to pull out at least one more book, even if Dream will never actually become reality.

  • @saminator4497
    @saminator4497 Рік тому +14

    When that 90 mins - 2hr Jon Snow vid drops you can bet your ass I'm booking a day off, putting everything on do not disturb and sitting down with popcorn and snacks to fully enjoy it

    • @RealestGaround
      @RealestGaround Рік тому +1

      That Jon snow vid is the winds of winter of swifto, good luck waiting on that

    • @saminator4497
      @saminator4497 Рік тому +2

      @RealestGaround 😂 if we can wait 13 years plus for the big man himself to drop this novel, then I've got all the patience in the world for this video, and I'll believe in its imminent arrival with just as much delusion 👌 But you're right, we shouldn't put it past Schwifty here to pull a 13 year wait just for the f*ckin bants

    • @RealestGaround
      @RealestGaround 11 місяців тому +1

      @saminator4497 brother, I can't believe I'm writing you this but it just dropped, the Jon snow video just dropped ✊️

    • @saminator4497
      @saminator4497 11 місяців тому +1

      @RealestGaround We are so back! In Shwifty we trust 🙌 if this can happen then so can Winds 😂

  • @konstantinospetrakos2536
    @konstantinospetrakos2536 Рік тому +19

    My two favorite content creators for fantasy! What a combo can’t wait to listen

  • @toadsicle1200
    @toadsicle1200 Рік тому +1

    I’ve been travelling a lot for work recently and this video is in my downloads file. I’ve fallen asleep to it 4x now. There’s something about that just drags me to sleep.

  • @conormurphy4328
    @conormurphy4328 Рік тому +34

    Alt shift trying to combine the two things his channel does so he only has to make 1 video a year

  • @jacksavere6988
    @jacksavere6988 Рік тому +8

    I like when baron harkonnen says I am your father after he cuts off Jon’s hand

  • @truthmachine6382
    @truthmachine6382 Рік тому +6

    Dragons being a catalyst for magic and the worms being the catalyst for spice might be the most telling trajectory for how the dragons will end up. Thanx for being a catalyst for this discussion, alt shift x!

  • @haydenhernandez2895
    @haydenhernandez2895 Рік тому +48

    …And Mushroom from Fire and Blood is, of course, Bijaz.

    • @DigitalSniper18
      @DigitalSniper18 10 місяців тому +1

      Holy shit

    • @spookyrookie
      @spookyrookie 10 місяців тому +1

      When I read messiah I actually imagined bijaz as a tyrion in another universe

  • @SilverScale.
    @SilverScale. Рік тому +1

    Love these in-depth chats... always such a treat!

  • @DesmondVids
    @DesmondVids Рік тому +3

    Oh snap, I'm definitely going to try to watch this soon. I too can talk for about 3 hours or so in discussing the parallels between Dune & Game of Thrones, both thematically and direct homages. I have also in the past stated that despite the other blaring influences evident in ASOIAF (Lovecraft, Howard, Smith, Moorcock, Marvel (comics), world mythology, and Medieval history, etc.), that in some way the Dune saga seems to me to be the largest influence in some unquantifiable way. Almost as if ASOIAF is the epic fantasy answer to Dune. So anyway, yes, very much looking forward to this video. Thanks for making it!

  • @louisroy4911
    @louisroy4911 Рік тому +2

    Just yesterday I was craving some new Alt Shift X content. Cheers mate!

  • @Calebe_Sagaz
    @Calebe_Sagaz Рік тому +43

    *I see a lot of similarities between Dune and A Song of Ice and Fire. Just as I see similarities between The Lord of the Rings and ASOIAF. But it's not a problem because GRRM knows the difference between copying and being inspired, and he was obviously inspired by these worlds/stories to create his own giant world. He himself (George Martin) admitted that there would be no ASOIAF if it weren't for Tolkien.*

    • @Captain_Insano_nomercy
      @Captain_Insano_nomercy Рік тому +5

      LOTR and Dune inspired all modern fantasy and science fiction respectively

    • @hectorg1752
      @hectorg1752 Рік тому +3

      Right, but I don’t think I have ever heard GRRM praise and cite Dune as an inspiration like he does LOTR.

    • @Captain_Insano_nomercy
      @Captain_Insano_nomercy Рік тому +5

      @hectorg1752 it is a bit odd, is it possible it was a subconscious influence? Because there's no way that it wasn't an influence

    • @hectorg1752
      @hectorg1752 Рік тому +2

      @@Captain_Insano_nomercy right, being completely generous I would want to believe that but there are just too many heavy handed similarities. It’s quite odd, I wish someone would ask him about Dune during an interview. I don’t want to believe he felt it could go undetected and nobody would call it out since at the time, GoT (the show) was incredibly mainstream and Dune, while always having a fandom, was a bit antiquated for some. Now with the stellar movie it found a new generation of fans and many more people have noticed the many connections to works like ASOIAF, Star Wars, ect.

    • @Captain_Insano_nomercy
      @Captain_Insano_nomercy Рік тому

      @hectorg1752 yeah there's simply no way it wasn't fundamental to that first book. I wish someone would ask that too

  • @Coalemos
    @Coalemos Рік тому +4

    The Leto/Ned thumbnail is perfect. Leto and Ned both were killed in the first season.

    • @6tiple6ix6afia
      @6tiple6ix6afia 11 місяців тому

      Durrrr no shit

    • @Coalemos
      @Coalemos 11 місяців тому

      @@6tiple6ix6afia khuuu khuuu khuuu smash the beetles, smash them!

  • @Old_School_293
    @Old_School_293 Рік тому +24

    Has anyone done a video on the fact that House Atreides is actually a house from Ancient Greek myth?

    • @Mordalon
      @Mordalon Рік тому +7

      Isn't that just part of the story? It's mentioned in passing and more explicitly brought up in the prequel series.

  • @yylfordt6125
    @yylfordt6125 10 місяців тому +2

    27:50 yes, Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, the most beautiful character in all of Dune 😍💀

  • @biggestfanof300
    @biggestfanof300 Рік тому +5

    I think a better comparison to the Fremen in GOT is the Wildlings, I don't think Vas Dathrak can be considered as extreme of an environment. Whereas the Wildlings are surviving in severe cold, while contending with the White Walkers, and befriending giants and mammoths.

    • @Mordalon
      @Mordalon Рік тому +1

      But they are comparing the Fremen to both, because both the Wildings and Dothraki share narrative similarities to Fremen. And While north of the wall is harsher than where the Dothraki live, where they live is still a brutal, lethal wasteland that most people avoid at all cost.

  • @УльюСегодня
    @УльюСегодня Рік тому +4

    I've read a great quote about any project in regards of Martin writing: "the first 99% of project are as not as hard as last 99% of the project" :D So it is kind of hard to predict how close the finish line really is in the middle. Personally I'm rooting for 5-6 more years to settle all the complicated knots of characters without loosing the main theme (where 1 year would be requires for all the redacting and printing preparations).

  • @GodsGrieff
    @GodsGrieff 10 місяців тому +3

    I would like to point out to the archetype of noble knight in both Dune and ASIOF:
    Duncan Idaho and Duncan the Tall

  • @hankchabavski9129
    @hankchabavski9129 Рік тому +3

    also DARK OVER series by Marion Zimmer Bradley should be a heavy influnce on GRRM.
    it even got a giant wall of ice, houses, fancy swords, and characters called "ashara" for example

  • @michaelchoi8044
    @michaelchoi8044 Рік тому +1

    Great, insightful convos with one caveat: Aziz laughing for no reason at all, every 10 seconds. Brutal.

  • @xvor_tex8577
    @xvor_tex8577 Рік тому +4

    I love how you can pronounce 'Piter de Vries' name as 'Petyr de Varys'

  • @iliaponomarev1624
    @iliaponomarev1624 Рік тому +3

    > Fremen are reduces to Museum Fremen
    But I guess they must be rather happy? I mean, they don't have to die of dehydration anymore... Some of them might even die drowning every once in a while.

  • @huberthepner3754
    @huberthepner3754 Рік тому +6

    "I Claudius" is more of an inspiration for ASoIaF. Reading it I had Leo-Di-Caprio face every 5 minutes as I thought "That's the same in ASOS!", "He's literally Littlefinger" or "Ooh, that's probably gonna happen in Winds"

  • @Mrwizfoz
    @Mrwizfoz Рік тому +1

    Thufir and Leeuwin have another parallel! They both served the enemy because they thought their rightful young rulers were dead, and they also both saw them alive one last time, *as they were dying*, and seemed to find peace.

  • @platetechfonics7006
    @platetechfonics7006 Рік тому +1

    I totally see the parallels. Especially when Jon Snow screams “Father! The sleeper has awaken!”

  • @PurpleNoir
    @PurpleNoir Рік тому +2

    Alt shift X upload? We are blessed lads.

  • @danilosaraujo79
    @danilosaraujo79 Рік тому +2

    Sorry for the off topic comment, but I'd love to see this channel also covering the Foundation series on Apple TV+. I know it's not as popular as GoT or Dune, but it has been a great show so far. Cheers.

    • @Mink-yu8nu
      @Mink-yu8nu Рік тому

      Agree! Foundation is wonderful!!!!

  • @youvebeensarged88
    @youvebeensarged88 Рік тому +3

    Bionicle lore videos sounds like an amazing idea. April Fools doesn't need to be a prerequisite.

  • @jeanpaulsinatra
    @jeanpaulsinatra Рік тому +1

    Everyone always says Ned was bad at politicking, but Secrets of the Citadel (if you're reading this, come back, we miss your rich Derbyshire accent) made a good point about how sending Beric to capture the Mountain would have snookered Tywin if Cersei's dumbass scheme didn't pan out the way it was meant to out of sheer fluke

  • @jacobquirk7557
    @jacobquirk7557 Рік тому +1

    Aziz! History of Westeros is the best in the game, so happy to see a collab

  • @GeekFurious
    @GeekFurious Рік тому +7

    Yes! Aziz! He's not only one of the most knowledgable ASOIAF podcasters, but his predictions for the books and show are not based in magical thinking and delusions of grandeur like... well, Preston Jacobs.

    • @Galero15
      @Galero15 Рік тому +5

      I disagree with a lot of Preston Jacobs’ takes, but what magician thinking and delusions of grandeur are you referring to? He doesn’t like the magic, and he’s actually well read on George and has pointed out many similarities and parallels to previous works that I’ve found quite revealing. He takes odd turns often but the legwork is pretty much always done well. I’ll take him over any other ASOIAF UA-camr.
      I also like that there are different corners in the fandom that like and prefer different things. I don’t care for David Lightbringer on a personal level and can’t stand to head his “this is X type figure” etc but he’s got an audience

    • @stelmaria-mx
      @stelmaria-mx Рік тому +4

      ​@@Galero15my favourite example is the Littlefinger plot video, where Preston has good takes, good information, setting the scene... And then his conclusion is that Littlefinger is trying to appease the Old Gods because Sansa has red hair or something

    • @OctopusWithNoFriends
      @OctopusWithNoFriends Рік тому

      ​@@Galero15hmm, people seem to have a lot of speculative-but-definite (because it's obvious!) diagnoses for UA-camrs and podcasters... but the comments are interesting to read at least.
      PS *gasp* I love David Lightbringer! I must just be "one of X type of figures..." 😅 💚

    • @Captain_Insano_nomercy
      @Captain_Insano_nomercy Рік тому

      Joe Magician is the GOAT for theories. Crowfood's daughter is also great, as well as In Deep Geek. Hills Alive doesn't do theories as much as analysis but she has some very original takes as well
      LML and Preston Jacobs are definitely not high on my list either lol

  • @raw6668
    @raw6668 Рік тому +2

    Personally, I think Battletech is more of an inspiration. Many factions feel like they were removed from the sci-fi setting and tweaked into Game of Thrones. Plus, Geroge R. R. Martin did say he was inspired by science fiction and was meant by the White Walkers. Though nothing was said, he could not be inspired by multiple sources.
    As for comparison:
    House Stark = House Davion, both in how they want to be portrayed as honorable but are actually willing to do in history. They mostly kept to themselves for a large portion of history. Still, they always made the most significant political moves when active in the galactic community, causing great harm to the family and nearly causing the family to go extinct several times. Also, get away with many things by being the good guy faction.
    North = Federated Suns ruled by House Davion, the largest territory, one of the most potent military but vastly underdeveloped. The only difference is the wide variety of worlds and having the largest population. Also, they are the primary center of an old religion that few believe in outside the Federated Suns (Christianity).
    Also, the North is similar to the Turrian Concordont, but I felt Federated Suns are a better example.
    House Lannister = House Kuriata with the Lyran Common Wealth. They are the most ruthless House and demand utmost loyalty, use tricky to usurp thrones of others on the flimsy excuse and trick their way into power, and outsmart the previous ruling family, which were family.
    Westerland = Draconis Combine ruled by House Kurita, in they state that uses fear to keep their subjects in line where might make right with many lords using the sword to enact control
    House Tyrell = House Stinner in that they are bumbling fools until they are not; then, they are perfect rulers or leaders. Also, they are incredibly wealthy due to being a merchant and never forgetting it, and they mostly flaunt wealth to keep in control. However, House Steiner does it by choice, for they could be as tyrannical as House Kuriata.
    Reach = Lyran Commonwealth rich territory that supplies many goods to all other factions and earns great wealth.
    House Mudd and Tully = House Marrik are trying to keep warring factions that answer to him from killing each other and get usurped by outside forces making a mess of their House that fight to retake their head status.
    Riverlands = Free World League as they spend more time fighting each other, and the heads desperately try to keep it together.
    House Greyjoy = House Leoa small-time commanders of a fleet that usurp power from the previous ruling House to reform the government into what it is today. Think they are master-class chess players and warriors, but their plans depend on backstabbing and no one retaliating. Also, a good number of their wars started due to finding a girl attractive and tried to raid the nation to claim the girl as a sex slave, only to kill them in the end.
    Mad King = Max Leoa he was the ruler of a state in the succession war and was utterly mad to the point that caused a lot of death and destruction and led House Davion to go after them in revenge. Also, he is easily manipulated by Comstar to be his own doom.
    Ironborn = Copellan Confederation is the group that backstabs everyone; everyone knows they backstab others and can pull surprise attacks but get shit on when the other factions take them seriously and constantly lose lives and territory. Also, they used to be a mighty state and one of the largest, now a former shadow of themselves that barely survives. Depend on the Star League for protection as it was like picking at other powers, thought it was their time to rise when it went to fight in the Succession Wars, but soon regretted their decision when they started losing lives regularly. One of the most unstable states with infight for the seat of power but has the most brainwashed citizens that are too loyal to the state, and labor depends on slaves that are not considered slaves but survivors.
    House Targaryen = House Cameron is the head of state and became First Lord of the Star League. The family started off great by convincing and conquering all the great powers but quickly declined after their success with a few great reformers that were unlikely, had a priest turn ruler, and the last First Lord died to stupidity and trust in a friend he should not have trusted.
    Rahegar Targaryen = Richard Cameron was the hope of House Targaryen and turned out more as a liability that eventually led to the end of House Cameron to only a few survivors (if any), with many speculating his sister survived.
    Crownlands = Terran Hegemony Once the center of power of Star League, it was one of the riches of territory and offered great wealth in terms of technology and resources, but is a former shadow of itself swallowed up slowly by others with only the capital now essential and fought over by other factions for the right of rulership.
    Kingsgaud = Black Watch, the elite army that defends the king and utterly fails to do so. They are considered the top of the crop, extremely elite, legends in their own right, and impossible to put down without losing a lot of people. Was briefly resurrected
    Stormland = the Rimworld Republic, a powerful state outside the everyday politics of the Star League that became a significant player within a few categories. The Amaris Family usurped control from House Cammeran and Terran Hegemony but quickly lost its power within two decades. It was reduced to a puppet state to be absorbed by the Lyran Commonwealth.
    Dorne = Conopus is a state with connections that are occasionally good with the Inner Spear, has a history of female rules as opposed to the mostly male rulers of others, very open sexually,
    Have a surprisingly powerful military but are also mostly blustered and depend more on home-field advantage and enemies not engaging in pure scorch-earth policies to win. Also, fought against unification with the Star League and broke away when they could.
    Free States = Outerworld Alliance, a collection of city-states outside the Inner Spear that is allied only on paper and
    Maesters = Comstar, the organization everyone is forced to use, for they have no choice but to secretly try to keep the factions fighting each other, horde information, and hide information they consider dangerous.
    White Walkers = Clanners, originally humans; they are genetically enhanced humans with advanced technology that seems alien yet familiar and incredibly advanced that invaded the Inner Sphere from somewhere beyond known human territory and come to reclaim what they think is theirs. At the same time, the factions were engaged in each other's threats until they were beaten in a single battle, and the different factions then returned to pummel each other.
    Use the name the Great Houses from Battletech to describe the rulers.
    The War of Five Kings = The Succession Wars, the Great Houses fighting over the First Lord's Chair of the Star League. It will likely end the same way in A Song of Fire and Ice: a return to an age of constant wars with no true victor in sight.
    Baleish = Amaris, a man who tried to usurp the throne of the Star League that kickstarted the Succession Wars and sort of succeeded in his plans, but his actions caused the failure that ultimately led to his death at the hands of the person that he tried to come to his side, Alexander Krensky, a man he considers a more after taught after things do not go his way. At the same time, he also severely harms the man personally and makes him have to retake his home before going after him. Also, the Amris family started as minor nobility and usurped power outside their home territory, a master manipulator. They personally did it due to perceived slights he wanted vengeance on and greed.
    There are far more, but it was getting too long. These are just the surface examples.

  • @mainchannel1566
    @mainchannel1566 Рік тому +2

    The French book series "The Accursed Kings," is a *HUGE* influence on ASOIAF.
    George wrote the forward when the books were republished in English.

  • @EdmundSkye
    @EdmundSkye Рік тому +11

    Dune = Dorne
    Sapho juice = Shade of the evening
    Bran Stark = Leto II one a tree and other a worm

    • @calebhorton4701
      @calebhorton4701 Рік тому +6

      You’re so right about Bran and Leto, also they’re both insufferable to listen to once they become all powerful

    • @Ar1AnX1x
      @Ar1AnX1x Рік тому +2

      @@calebhorton4701 I like that type of writing though, the more they become inhuman but powerful the more unrelatable they become
      I think its boring how some Sci/Fantasies have these ultra powerful gods that are kinda human but still very human and likable, it doesn't make too much sense to me

    • @psevdhome
      @psevdhome Рік тому +1

      Trees have apples and apples have worms, it's all connected!!!

  • @morganhunt8051
    @morganhunt8051 Рік тому +1

    3:12:00 as far as Frank being more concerned with humanity going extinct, I wonder how much of that comes from living during the Cold War with nuclear extinction in the back of everyone’s mind

  • @Ozymandias____
    @Ozymandias____ Рік тому +12

    Check out the Elric saga it was a major inspiration to George

  • @jaggonzalesauthor
    @jaggonzalesauthor Рік тому +1

    2:24:10 "...I have been thinking of an April Fool's joke explaining BIONICLE's lore."
    Tell it in chronological order for extra confusion. The Toa Mata won't show up until two-thirds way through the video.

  • @AdrianMendoza23
    @AdrianMendoza23 Рік тому +1

    Great discussion. Thanks guys

  • @AnnabelTheGoldsmith
    @AnnabelTheGoldsmith Рік тому

    Been thinking about this for a while...thanks for the video ✌️

  • @psevdhome
    @psevdhome Рік тому +6

    I think your view of having to do bad things for power is a great one.
    Ned literally demonstrates this well. He thinks that Joffrey is illegitimate so he tries to plot a way to block the Queen in installing him as king when Robert is about to die. Two individuals present a morally questionable method of gaining that power, Renly says that Ned must assault at night so that teh Queen will be vulnerable, whereas Littlefinger suggests they get hands on Joffrey and install him as puppet and hold the threat of revealing his bastardy to set up another ruler. Ned rejects both offers. Even when he is caught and captured he does not compromise his morality.
    But he does compromise his morality though, when he thinks it will save Sansa and Arya: he admits to treason to be sent to the Wall to guarantee the safety of his children. I think at this point he dies because he compromised his morals. Except that's not a very GRRM story.
    He actually already compromised his morals: he knew that Joffrey was illegitimate, when he was at Robert's death bed. Instead of revealing this fact to Robert he aduterates Robert's will: he replaces Robert's dictation "Until my son Joffrey comes of age" to "Until the true heir comes of age". He did not tell Robert the truth but adulterated the will with his cowardice. In a sense the failure of his coup is ironically justice: he is there with a fake document to usurp the one whom Robert designated as heir. Even though they aren't his children, the will is a forgery, since Ned changed the words. Ned's literal downfall begins with his attempt to usurp the one Robert designated as heir. In a way his story closes with him being correctly executed for treason, even though he thinks the heir is illegitimate.

  • @therexinator7139
    @therexinator7139 Рік тому

    Thanks both - great discussion ❤

  • @marcello9476
    @marcello9476 Рік тому +4

    Haven't watched the video but when I was watching the first season of GoT, all I could think of was how much it reminded me of dune

  • @thepunisherxxx6804
    @thepunisherxxx6804 Рік тому +10

    George obviously doesn't care to finish the books. I kind of don't blame him, he's made his money, and he spent a lot of time with GOT, he's doing other projects too. With that said, I think he should hand it off to a team, get people like you help, he gives high level notes they do the grunt work and touch up. At least finish it in some capacity it doesn't have to be perfect. Do it now while he's still alive. You don't see many old overweight people. Just saying time is running out!

    • @JoshuaKevinPerry
      @JoshuaKevinPerry Рік тому

      He hates us for enjoying his work.

    • @thepunisherxxx6804
      @thepunisherxxx6804 18 днів тому

      @@sbsuduxhxuisi I feel like he has an obligation to the fans that made him his fortune to finish, is that so hard to understand? To do it in good faith. If he has to outsource it, at least try to give the fans that made him his fortune a good ending.
      If he doesn't that's his choice, but I think it taints his "legacy" and goodwill towards fans.

  • @kensmusic1134
    @kensmusic1134 Рік тому +7

    4:36 I don‘t think Ned is meant to be a model for someone who uses power well. One of his first scenes is beheading a frightened man without a real trial juristically or any empathy emotionally. I would interpret Ned as a criticism of hierarchy (especially of course feudal hierarchy) insofar that even when following every detail of medieval honorary code, and not abusing power, one is not able to act morally within this system.

    • @1776huckleberry
      @1776huckleberry Рік тому +2

      I really like this point, but I do think they establish guilt when explaining that the guy ran. They took away doubt which was similar to a trial. On the other hand the guy was talking about white walkers IIRC, so he cut off an important warning people needed to hear. If that was the case it could mean what you described but not just impeding morals but existence entirely.

    • @LeSeulGarcon
      @LeSeulGarcon 8 місяців тому +1

      It’s explicably explained that you cannot abandon your position in the Nights watch. It’s literally like a prison / and a sort of military. And doing so is punishable by death. Ned was teaching bran Duty, integrity

    • @Ray_D_Tutto
      @Ray_D_Tutto Місяць тому +2

      And the book ends with his own execution showing the karma.

    • @kensmusic1134
      @kensmusic1134 Місяць тому

      @@LeSeulGarcon i‘m talking about a modern understanding of morality. I think we both agree that a soldier, or prison escapee should not be immediately killed, especially if they didn‘t hurt anyone during their escape, and are clearly heavily disturbed. Ned didn‘t properly hear the guy out, as then they might have found the site where his squad was attacking (this would be a necessary component, even in a military trial). Seeing this execution as a kind of moral lesson from an outside perspective, is just wrong. Neds uncompromising following of the codes of his society eventually leads to his death, where he gets executed in an unfair way as another commenter mentioned.

  • @morningivy
    @morningivy Рік тому +1

    I was listening to this while sleeping and literally woke up after I heard him cut the dude off. What WAS that line when-?

  • @snocades
    @snocades Рік тому +4

    I disagree that Frank Herbert is cynically telling the reader to coldly trust in logic and reason above everything. In "Messiah" Paul Atreides says he is worse than Hitler; if that isn't Frank telling us that Paul/kwisatz haderach/omniscience is bad then I don't know.

    • @kekero540
      @kekero540 10 місяців тому +1

      Because the golden path is a lie. It’s a set of predictions based on our extremely limited understanding of the universe. Can it really account for every note of dust, every bacterium, every neuron in a man’s brain? Of course it can’t.
      It’s why it takes Leto II 4 thousand years to actually do anything of note.
      We must have faith, faith in the goodness of others to progress as a species. Forgiveness for our enemies and compassion for those who harm us. If a better world cannot be achieved that way then I want no part in this world.
      But this is why I have faith.
      By the end of the dune books people are just back to square one, nothing has really changed the only thing Leto II did was make sure nobody else could use prescience to do what he did.

  • @saelind73
    @saelind73 Рік тому +3

    I guess, you can find a lot of books and authors who "inspired" GRRM, if we go down that lane. As far as I know though, he dubbed The Accursed Kings "the original game of thrones", citing Druon's novels as an inspiration for his own series.

    • @Juan-km2zm
      @Juan-km2zm Рік тому

      😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊0😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

  • @vektor451
    @vektor451 Рік тому

    i have no idea how i ended up watching this but it helped me sleep so thank you keep producing amazing sleep videos

  • @ser_ryon_vine6392
    @ser_ryon_vine6392 Рік тому +7

    Anyone looking for asoiaf levels of medieval political intrigue should read the prince of nothing series!

    • @LPno.9
      @LPno.9 Рік тому

      "Prince Of Nothing"

    • @6tiple6ix6afia
      @6tiple6ix6afia 11 місяців тому +1

      @JohnV170 "no one gives shit that you feel so ignored by everyone that you feel the need to correct YT comments that do not require capitalization or commas"

  • @morariu246
    @morariu246 Рік тому

    This was great. Thank you both.

  • @squamish4244
    @squamish4244 Рік тому +1

    Literary analysis of ASOIAF and not just people arguing over in-universe everything? This is madness!
    But seriously, this is one of the few channels that actually does this. Literary analysis of ASOIAF is pretty uncommon in general. You certainly don't find much of it on the fan boards. It's all "What if Jaime had done x or y or what if the Kingsguard had all been at the Battle of the Trident or who would win between a and b and what was x person's motivation and what if, what if, what if..." Lol

  • @sickjoe9174
    @sickjoe9174 Рік тому +2

    In Dune do they ever go over the Fremen's view point on turning their planet into a paradise and how that could possibly kill Shai-hulud?

    • @mejuliie
      @mejuliie Рік тому +4

      Yes, in later books.

    • @JM.....
      @JM..... Рік тому +3

      Takes till about book 3

  • @lilypadrocks872
    @lilypadrocks872 Рік тому +3

    The very first book of game of thrones was just as much as dune be it the medieval version, because, if not for the obvious Robot Jihad and the Robert Rebellion similarities the stark and Atreides moving from their ancestral home in the behest of their king was infact a sign calamity will happen for mostly the family head, but still they're creative difference in their storytelling telling is still unique in their respective worlds

    • @Mordalon
      @Mordalon Рік тому +2

      Robert's Rebellion is closer to the previous "war of assassins" that involved multiple houses. The Jihad is closer to Aegon's Conquest in that it occurred long before any of the main characters were born and is what established the feudal system they find themselves in.

  • @overlookers
    @overlookers Рік тому +3

    So can we all agree that Winds will be the new Chapterhouse

  • @DutchVanDerLenin7609
    @DutchVanDerLenin7609 Рік тому +3

    (Tywin referring to Jaime's capture in AGoT)
    "They have my Son!"
    (Duke Leto referring to the hunter-seeker)
    "They tried to take the life of my son!!"

  • @banne8834
    @banne8834 Рік тому +1

    Love seeing this combo!

  • @chrisvalentine4365
    @chrisvalentine4365 Рік тому +1

    interesting spoiler part finally starts at 2:25:55 if you want to skip all the preamble like i did

  • @hez859
    @hez859 Рік тому +9

    This is awesome, BUT WHERE IS THE JON SNOW VIDEO

    • @hez859
      @hez859 Рік тому

      @@anonymous-hz2un yeah, I just finished it!

    • @hez859
      @hez859 Рік тому

      ​@@anonymous-hz2unbro really has become George RR Martin 😭😂😂

  • @iliaponomarev1624
    @iliaponomarev1624 Рік тому +2

    > Thufir is much more villainous dude than Luwin
    Well, I wouldn't be so sure...
    Thufir was at least on Atreides side for sure.
    Luwin's true allegiances are unknown, but he didn't have to be poisoned to work for Stark enemies.

    • @kidgforce1
      @kidgforce1 Рік тому +1

      Maybe the maesters parallel the Bene Gesserit in secretive long range plans

    • @iliaponomarev1624
      @iliaponomarev1624 Рік тому

      @@kidgforce1 They definitely do to some extent.
      But they can't control the temperature of their genitalia, so they aren't as fun.

  • @whyonthefall5373
    @whyonthefall5373 Рік тому +8

    I'd be interested in a comparison between ASoIaF and the Elric Saga by Michael Moorcock. Quite a few substantial comparisons there

  • @EvelynDayless
    @EvelynDayless 10 місяців тому

    "I think GRRM has a better chance of finishing his story" I was so waiting for you to finish with "Because he's still alive"

  • @SamSilk
    @SamSilk 5 місяців тому

    GRR Martin said multiple times that most of ASOIF was mainly inspired by a french series of novels called "Les Rois Maudits" (the cursed kings) which in turn is a romanced version of a dynasty of french kings. Jon Snow was inspired by a famous historical imposter who claimed to be then deceased royal heir Jean le Posthume (John the posthumous) who died a day after his birth but was rumored to have been kidnapped or hidden to avoid assassination. Part of the french novel plot is that this character is actually telling the truth. Robert Baratheon was inspired by another French king also featured in the same series of novels: king Philip IV who died after falling from his horse during a wild boar hunt. Several other characters are inspired by this series of novels. The Lannisters are inspired by the Plantagenet family and Cersei is inspired by Alienor of Aquitaine. Ned Stark is inspired by another historical figure named Guillaume de Nogaret (William of Nogaret). The Targaeryans seem to borrow more from the greek myths (survivors of the fall of Atlantis, with Valyrian steel being a variation on the theme of "orichalk", a magic alloy the atlanteans were supposed to have mastered), just as the Atréides family.

  • @leonjreawani1417
    @leonjreawani1417 4 місяці тому

    Paul Atreides has 6 aliases in addition to being Harry Potter, Aegon the Conqueror, the Prince that was Promised and the Attack Titan

  • @lostcause78
    @lostcause78 Рік тому +2

    Have you read the Memory, Sorrow and Thorn books? There are some pretty heavy comparisons to Song of Ice and Fire in that one too, especially in regards to the North and the children of the forest.

    • @carriedoan817
      @carriedoan817 Рік тому +1

      I believe MST was said by George himself to be an inspiration.

    • @lostcause78
      @lostcause78 Рік тому

      @@carriedoan817 Didn't know that, thanks! :)

  • @julianBTC21
    @julianBTC21 Рік тому +1

    An Atreides always pays his debts.

  • @thenyel1
    @thenyel1 Рік тому +1

    Can't believe I missed this. I didn't get a notification

  • @johnakni
    @johnakni Рік тому +1

    Only if George RR Martin's last book in the series ends with the new King Bran the Broken fusing together with the flesh of a dragon and he rules Westeros for 3,500 years using his powers to predict the future as well as looking deep into the past.

  • @woodwyrm
    @woodwyrm Рік тому +1

    Should point out that houses Gardener, Stark and Lannister all claim descent from the Age of Heroes.

  • @thedevilluis
    @thedevilluis Рік тому +1

    I think Jon will warg to a dragon because he has both Targaryen and Stark blood.

  • @ys2fm
    @ys2fm Рік тому +1

    so professional 37:15 im not being sarcastic he went right back into it

  • @johncleese-mogg365
    @johncleese-mogg365 Рік тому +2

    Both Tywin and the baron had ironically underwhelming deaths

    • @FreejackVesa
      @FreejackVesa Рік тому +3

      Underwhelming? Idk man. Killed with an ancient poison needle by your psychic granddaughter and shot through the heart by your whipping boy son with a crossbow while on the commode. Both pretty whelming to me. Sounds like some fucked up game of Clue

    • @JoshuaKevinPerry
      @JoshuaKevinPerry Рік тому

      TIL assassinations are boring

  • @iamthesayyadina
    @iamthesayyadina Рік тому +1

    GOT (show) was definitely GRRM's ending: [SPOILERS] It ends the same as Dune Messiah (John goes North, and Paul...walks into the desert.) Also, both stories have fraternal twins. Cersei and Jamie are incestuous, and L2 & G marry. And regarding Petyr & Piter: Both want the same woman: Catelyn/Jessica.

  • @ndantona92
    @ndantona92 Рік тому

    Pretty sure Quaith is Elissa Farman. Quaith is obsessed with Danny traveling to westeros via asshai (the way she got there but reversed/ backwards to go forwards, east to go west = circle the globe) She knows Danny has the eggs she stole.

  • @onelazyson
    @onelazyson Рік тому

    X spoiling us with quality content

  • @devinreese1397
    @devinreese1397 Рік тому +1

    Dune also inspired as did the Time Machine Martin's earlier stories, which were science fiction. Specifically In the House of the Worm. direct God Emperor of Dune parallels but others.

  • @jonpopelka
    @jonpopelka 11 місяців тому +1

    The word 'masturbatory' was sorely underused in this video.

  • @ArtusLov3
    @ArtusLov3 2 місяці тому

    letos story is actually inspired by the epic: "nieblungenlied" cause there they also walk into a trap by king etzel and know they will die but do it anyways cause they would accuse the king etzel if they refused to go

  • @lindsay9838
    @lindsay9838 Рік тому +2

    Accidentally slept through the entirety of Dune when I went to see it…woke up 5 minutes before the end, more confused than I’ve ever been in my life. Some people wearing cloaks and NG tubes. Seem to be living in Agrabah.
    Anyway, I still love listening to these videos because the way he says “DEWN” is so adorable☺️

    • @devinreese1397
      @devinreese1397 Рік тому

      Try a three hour cut of the Original movie. You missed nothing if you slept through the new one, which is dreck. Ignore negative comments on the first film. It is more like the book in the 3hr version (Dino de laurentiis did a studio mandaqted hatchet job on it to make it 2 hrs, people JUST were not allowed to release 3 hr films or more in the 1980s! That went out with the 1960s, 70s latest.), but the new one just is plain terrible.

    • @edpistemic
      @edpistemic Рік тому

      I also fell asleep during the new one! It looked gorgeous, but I was just so tired.

  • @Jonjzi
    @Jonjzi 6 місяців тому

    I notice that a lot of medieval-fantasy, at least those which maintain any meaningful analog to real history, often underplay the Islamic factor, probably because of how much it smacks of orientalism. However, I do consider "falling stars" and "mysterious black" stone as being indictive of the fact that George is likely more knowledgeable about this religious element factoring into his own story. I suppose I thought of it because of how Dune is so obviously influenced by the Middle East as well. It definitely seems relevant.

  • @Peanutcat
    @Peanutcat Рік тому +1

    Wait a minute what's this doing on the food reviewer man's channel?

  • @Scooby_Nubie
    @Scooby_Nubie Рік тому

    Did i really sit down and watch a 3 hour + video. Yes, yes I did.

  • @nickzeiders5952
    @nickzeiders5952 Рік тому +4

    Do you think Rhaegar naming both of his sons Aegon is an homage to Paul naming both of his sons Leto?

    • @Aydan2108
      @Aydan2108 Рік тому +2

      That is just dumb writing from the show

  • @luiserazoga
    @luiserazoga 10 місяців тому

    Great chat 😊

  • @ManforSomeMarkets
    @ManforSomeMarkets 4 місяці тому

    1:03:37 I would read the hell out of a Dream of Spring if it was just about some portly man in Bravos lamenting to his pet turtle about the War of the Five Kings and the Battle of the Dawn.

  • @lxdead5585
    @lxdead5585 5 місяців тому

    Leto and Ned are bound by responsibility, honour and justice. Leto leaves Khaladan and takes over Arrakis cuz he was ordered to do so by his superior, and even though he know it's a trick, he accepts cuz that's how he should act. He does this for his family and other royal families in Landsrad which sees him as a leader and an example to follow. Stark accepts Robert's offer cuz it's his responsibility to him: he is his only trusted friend, and he is one of those who put him on that throne.
    Both characters die, cuz they thought that their enemies will play the game with same type of rules (honour etc.) they will have. They thought that people will share their values and that leads them to their fall. They were too naive, too short-sighted - they lost the game before they even joined it.

  • @gwen6622
    @gwen6622 10 місяців тому

    2:08:00 "do you think dune part 2 will be any good?" happy to report from the future that, uh, yeah, it was "any good" haha. you could definitely say that lol

  • @MrNeCr01
    @MrNeCr01 Рік тому

    I fucking loved Bionicles as a kid. I tried getting all of them so I could combine them into the Megazord, but I wasn't able to get the last 2 before my local Walmart stopped selling them. Once upon a time before Amazon was selling things other than books.