I always assumed that 'computer' was used to imply an adaptation (whether faithful or loose) of a ttrpg ruleset/'feel' rather than serving to distinguish from console rpgs
This is also the correct answer :) Consoles weren't part of the picture, really, originally. The term goes all the way back to the 70s - and it was, precisely, to distinguish from PnP RPGs.
@@fireflyggamber7637 I tried it but its way too much for me to handle. I had no problems playing and completing games like DAO, Wasteland 3 or Divinity OS2 but BG2's systems kind of make it a turn off for me. Same for Underrail and Pathfinder. I am looking forward to Baldur's Gate 3 when it comes out of early access though.
@@fireflyggamber7637 I like both but DAO really modernized DnD instead of just adapting it which fixed a lot of the issues I had with TT/PnP rules in CRPG: removed annoying prebuffing rituals (sustained abilities make so much more sense), separated AC to armor (damage reduction) and defense (dodging), and removed dump stats long before PoE tried the same things. Only thing that was a noticeable downgraded imo was spells; BG2 has by far the best magic system in any game, even modern DnD games. Pathfinder may have more complex systems (OwlCat really needs to add more high level spells) but mage duels in BG2 is like solving a puzzle since there are so many spells which gives immunities, especially with SCS mod where mages are essentially untouchable prebuffed. In DAO, mage battles is just whoever used Mana Clash first, which is a terribly implemented imo.
For me CRPG in a modern sense, are generally the RPG's that play/build on the tropes/features of the RPG's that were traditionally labeled as CRPG's during the time that it meant "computer RPG's" (like Baldur's Gate, original Fallout, etc.). Generally isometric view, generally choice-driven narrative, typically has a party-based set of protagonist/s with companion/s, and typically a deeper character building system relative to the zeitgeist. Also if the game's style of play is described either "real time with pause" or "turn-based" in that dichotomy, that's typically something unique to the genre (unlike real time strategy vs turn-based strategy, there is no "real time with pause strategy")
I've played real time with pause games where a mission consists of several characters that can't be expanded upon, such as Shadow Gambit or Sumerian Six. I think the dividing line is whether the game focuses primarily on having challenging gameplay, or expression/ story. Though the line is really blurry mechanically, since the latter has xp and upgrades for skills.
In my opinion, your description and criteria of cRPG fits the description of RPGs in general. What adds the "c" in cRPG is the party based concept where you embark on your adventures with companions, whether they are pre-generated or join at some point. That probably still doesn't narrow it down enough though- maybe add a top down camera view ala isometric style (or something else).
Diablo = aRPG (action) Baldurs Gate = cRPG (computer/classic/old school) Tales of Symphonia = jRPG (japaneese/anime style) Fire Emblem = tRPG (tactical) Skyrim = RPG (no particular direction) And then you have games with concepts from multiple styles making them hard to pinpoint. Like Pokemon are a jRPG, but also a tRPG. Divinity Orginal Sin is a cRPG but also a tRPG. In the end it does not matter what's the correct term is, it's just for quick figuring out your style. As I personally hate the aRPG style and no particulary love for the jRPG style, but I do love cRPG and tRPG. Easy for me to find new games I will enjoy.
We should just go the MetroidVania route and start calling them FallGate-likes. Especially since everyone wants to be a "spiritual successor" these days.
Never mind defining CRPG, people often can't even agree on what makes an RPG. That said, I pretty much agree with your criteria. I think something about action should be added to the definition, though, but I don't know how to phrase it. My point is that, in the classic days, PCs weren't capable of rendering fast action. That was the defining characteristic of console games, whose limitation was in providing depth in games. So, classic RPGs were relatively slow and methodical, even when they had real time combat. Just a thought.
Thank you for sharing your perspective on this. I grew up a little earlier, in the original RPG gaming era of Ultima 1-4, Moria and Roguelikes, Exile/Avernum, back when RPGs were really only found on old Dos PCs and early Macs. It's interesting how the SNES and similar consoles allowed RPGs to migrate to consoles. If you get a chance, Avernum (the indy second remake of the Exile series) is a very old, still good isometric cRPG with some interesting story decisions. Original came out in 1995, the updated trilogy (2nd time 1-3) wrapped up a few years ago.
Anybody else notice him using the "throwing the chest full of weight" trick in Divinity: OS on that Void Dragon? Learned about that from the Spiffing Brit and noticed Mort doing like over 3k damage per throw with the chest lmao
Currently going through pillars of eternity 2 ultimate edition. I’m still not sold on the story, but at least now I can see the forest for the trees. It’s a hard game to understand going into it blind. It sometimes has a ‘pick your own adventure’ feel to it, which is growing on me.
To me, the C still stands for "computer", as in a way to say that game is more or less a translation of a tabletop experience, but as a program running on that machine. Which already follows a different formula from jrpg and arpg
I have tried Spellforce 3 reforсed campaign and I was really shocked! I was not expected to find so good "CRPG"-like game which is hiding behind that RTS. Not so much time ago I had finished Greedfall and I want to say that Spellforce 3 campaign is far more great for me as RPG. The main story is interesting, almost each of your companions has his deep own story. More to say, as in many of RPGs in Spellforce 3 you have 8 companions 3 of which you may take as followers. Also youll get your "base" where you may talk with them, have simple artifact craft, sell\buy items. Each of characters has 3 skill tree (+1 affinity skill which you may also unlock) and attributes. I was really surprised! So I recommend you also to try it if youll have a chance.
The main RPGs on computers in the 80s were games like the Ultima series (top-down), games like the Wizardry series (first-person perspective), and games like Rogue (roguelikes). In 1986, Enix released Dragon Quest (Dragon Warrior on the NES), the first JRPG, which simplified elements of Wizardry and Ultima so that it would work better on the Famicom. By 2000, CRPGs were games like Baldur's Gate while JRPGs were more movie-like games like Final Fantasy VII that worked well on consoles. Knights of the Old Republic and Mass Effect were *technically* CRPGs when they were released but worked well on consoles and were more cinematic, so the definition of CRPG was revised to specifically mean games like Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale.
After years trying to hopelessly define that, i came to the conclusion that the RPG genre is simply anything that is called an RPG and feel like an RPG. Any definition either include stuff that most people would never call an RPG, or exclude some things that are undeniably RPG. The same is largely true for many subgenres as well. It's very much a "if you seen one you recognize it as one" situation.
Thanks for this, with the term being thrown around all the time now with the discussion of Baldur’s Gate 3, I needed some clarity on the history of the term.
My definition of a cRPG is that it follows certain norms a table top PnP RPG. Specifically a) it (almost always) involves a party of companions, a team, fully controlled by the player as well as your MC and b) combat and other actions are resolved via character stats plus RNG dice rolls and not the player's physical dexterity with the game controls. This differentiates cRPG from aRPG (or action RPG) such as Witcher 3 where hits etc are determined by the player's physical skill with the combat controls. For me cRPG = party + dice rolls and this is the clear defining difference between cRPGs like Pathfinder WotR and DOS2 and aRPGs like Witcher 3 and Skyrim.
I love how you said Choice and Consequences.. both of those do seem to be defining characteristics of a CRPG! And it helps that they both start with a C too! 😉 You mentioned Customization too! The 3 C's that put the C in RPG!
Guess I am officially old For me it will always be 'computer RPG', first time I heard about 'classical' approach. Also funny timing of that video, it was just last week when I wondered if Mass Effects is more of cRPG or a shooter with RPG elements. Are you a mindreader now? =P
Great video! I can't think of any CRPGs with "action" combat, it's always turn based or real time with pause. Is that a distinguishing feature? I think the famous "I know it when I see it" quote really suits this situation. Bit of feedback; it would be good if you put the names of the games playing in the background on the screen. The visual style of the first one really appeals to me and in not sure what it's called.
I was about to comment to ask for this, myself. I'd love to see a little text blurb saying "Currently playing: Such and Such game, date of release" or something.
@@miraclemaker1418 I'm aware, but he didn't mention combat as a defining factor in the video so I'm interested in whether he thinks that should be a factor or if there's a game that has action combat that some people might consider a CRPG :)
speaking of c&c, are you considering covering the witcher games? i get that you're not into games with set protagonists, but tell that to your younger, jrpg-playing self. that train has sailed! =)
I thought the C stood for "character." Haha. Goes to show what I know. Never did play anything in the genre, but I will now, thanks to your great content.
I just use CRPG to mean any computerized RPG. Consoles are computers so I include all RPGs played on consoles or any other kind of computer. I take a very inclusive view of what can be considered an RPG. I do count the Dungeons And Dragons arcade games, Zelda, Harvest Moon, etc. I don't think levels, experience points, and character customization are the only elements that make an RPG. Fork Knife has levels. Akalabeth doesn't. Plenty of RPGs have set protagonists and preset level progression. All genres exist on a spectrum. They're judged based on influences, legacy, common audience, contemporary works, and general sentiment. That's why The Lord Of The Rings is in the same genre as Game Of Thrones. And they overlap. Is Star Wars science fiction or fantasy? It's both. And it's action adventure, and it's a space opera, and it's a family saga, and it's a generational epic, etc. Genres are far more inclusive and far less rigid than a lot of people want to make them. So essentially my view is that any videogame that falls somewhere on the RPG spectrum is a CRPG and I think we should generally embrace a more inclusive and fluid attitude when we try to fit media into specific genres
I hadn't heard the term CRPG until recently having not played the like of Fallout and Baldur's Gate when they originally came out, but my conclusion from the games that it was being applied to was that it meant Combat RPG, in essence an RPG with combat as the primary mechanic.
I don't know if that definition works. I've seen several crpgs with at least the ability to invest in a speech skill then bribe or persuade enemies. From what I've seen action rpgs don't tend to have a speech stat, or only use it for haggling. Then again, I'd argue "invest in speech, then roll a die to convince an enemy" is kind of primitive gameplay. I remember Deus Ex Human Revolution had multi step debates with enemies, where you had to make several correct choices to get them to see your way, and it wasn't a simple pass/fail- for example, you might have to bribe them. While that seems like a system begging for expansion, unfortunately big budget games are expected to be fully voice acted, and rpgs already have huge amounts of dialogue and description. Maybe an indie title could do that, where you can be a silver tongued diplomat.
I think with so many views of what a CRPG really is, guess it's important to not get too bothered by it, this certainly seems to have a time framing aspect to it (like early isometric vs modern 3D). Can agree that the choices, role-playing and character customization are the true core, the rest is more or less semantics people get stuck on.
I was looking up this topic in preparation for Baldurs Gate 3 being released on Xbox Series S soon and I'm glad you have a video on it. I was going to comment asking if there are any free crpgs you'd recommend that aren't very hardware intensive (my PC isn't the greatest 😆) but I see you have a video on CRPGs for beginners so I guess that answers my question (kinda, I'm not sure if you recommend any that are free in that video but I'm about to find out 😅)
Years ago, I used to think that CRPGs were Chinese Roleplaying Game (because JRPGs stand for Japanese Roleplaying Game). Haha. Also, I saw a game called Alaloth: Champions of The Four Kingdoms. Although it seems to leaning towards Action RPG genre more, they have used 'CRPG' in promo videos. Any chance that you'll cover it in future?
I may be old but to me cRPG means what it always meant: computer role-playing games. As opposed to RPGs, which are role-playing games you play with your friends around a table with dice and characer sheets and all the usual stuff. Now, crpg on it's own does not mean that the game is good or great, it only means that it is an rpg that you play on your computer (console etc.).
Often, just the way I see it used online, I usually assume it just means an older style rpg. I rarely hear anyone call Baldur's Gate 3 a crpg (Tho it clearly could be called such), but I heard almost everyone called WoTR a CRPG. I love both games, just a distinction I noticed.
For me the C stands for classic. Witcher 3, Skyrim, Mass Effect etc are all played on computers and are technically RPGs. You are playing a "role", you can make decisions, there are (usually) consequences to the choices that you make, you can customize your character up to a point. But they are more action games than true RPGs to me. I mean even Red Dead 2 lets you make decisions, customize your character, your stats level up but I wouldn't call it an RPG. Same with the Far Cry or Assassin's Creed games. The modern RPG games usually have some different elements to them, whereas a game like WOTR is a pure RPG. Obviously just my opinion but to me CRPGs, even if they are brand new, follow that classic game style set out by the like's of Baldur's Gate and Fallout 1 & 2.
I always considered, and still consider, crpg as games where i can control a party of characters, no matter if these games are isometric or in full 3d. I'm not a huge fan of crpgs even of i played some of them like Dragon Age Origins, Star Wars KOTOR, Baldurs Gate, Arcanum, Mass Effect and Pillars of Eternity, and my favorite among these titles is Arcanum cause i've completed it twice
To me, every RPG that is played on a computer is cRPG. "C" stands for "computer". Frankly, I don't see a need to change or overcomplicate this classification, it doesn't have to be that strict. As long as the game is good, it doesn't matter. What does the term RPG mean to me? It's simple - being able to roleplay a character and having some choices. Just having things like attributes and talents isn't enough, even some shooters have these mechanics, but don't offer any roleplaying.
@@Morden97 that's like the term "minicomputers" which is not mini at all but at the time when the term is being used it fits because computers back then were way bigger than today, and the minicomputer is smaller yet still bigger in today's computers. Kinda agree that the Name needs an update.
Great vid and good points on the matter. To me a cRPG is a continuation of table top RPGs but on PC.as such anything that derives from tabletops, or has rulesets and rules similar to a tabletop, is a cRPG and everything else is not. Which, for example, makes Baldurs Gate a cRPG to me and Diablo anything but.
I think this is something that plagues genre labels in general, not even just in video games. What is and isn't horror? Where's the exact line between an ARPG and an Action/Adventure game? That band isn't punk! And on and on. Labels are useful to an extent, but ultimately they're open to interpretation and don't REALLY matter.
I think you got the origins a bit mixed up Morty. Originally the term crpg was used to defirintiate between role-playing games on a computer amd pen and paper role-playing games. Back in the 80s and 90s if you said you were playing a role-playing game ods were you were talking about dungeons and dragons or gurps or vampire the masquerade or some other pen and paper game. And these early computer role-playing games were very much trying to recreate that same pen and paper feel on a computer. Everything else you say is accurate because the core of a pen and paper role-playing session has always been that interaction with another human being driving the story. It's about decision making, amd the consequences es of those decisions. Something other rpgs really didn't have. On consoles, jrpgs tended to be extremely linear cinematic experiences with no real choices to make nor any consequences stemming from them.
Dragon Age Origins definitely is a cRPG ; hell, you can even play it in top down mode and one encounter in specific LOVES top down. Morrowind could be considered one, it all depends where we draw the line when it comes to RNG. In fact, why wouldn't Morrowind be a cRPG? Oblivion+ definitely aren't. They are more akin to Open World Action Adventures than anything else. Actually a hybrid between ActAdv and a RPG. A thribrid? Sorry for overly Aeon interpretation. One thing I'd like to see mended about cRPGs is the sucky Early Game. It really doesn't need to be like that.
Game genres are weird :D I thinkg CRPG stands for "Classical" where tropes like strategy, deep lore, choice + consequence are more present compare to action RPG where everything you do is somehow connected to the combat most of the time.
cRPG is cRPG, isometric, turn based, solo or with companions… Makes no difference. The degree is arbitrary. The definition is blurred. If I’m to choose between on cRPG or another, I’d rather choose them all.
From what I’ve heard, the history of the split from CRPG and JRPG started with Dragon Quest. Yuji Horii, Dragon Quest’s creator, was a big fan of Wizardry and Ultima, and wanted to make an RPG for the Japanese market. Since computer games weren’t really that popular in Japan, he decided to develop it for the Famicom. Because of the much limited storage of a console compared to a computer, many of the game mechanics had to be streamlined and simplified. This meant having a predetermined character, a more linear story, automatic leveling, etc. So generally speaking, games that follow this more streamlined design are labeled JRPGS, while games that follow the older design of computer RPGS are called CRPGS.
CRPG and JRPG are equally dumb, because they indicate a "feeling" that goes beyond what it is in the name. If you ask a person that foes not know the developer identity wich is the JRPG between Undertale and Dark Soul, they will mostly say the former.
@@TimmacTR It's not dumb but it becomes subjective. A third person shooter and RPGs are equally broad descriptors, but one is a factual description that doesn't have to talk about how the games "feel" or what their origin or gameplay is like, whereas the other relies on what is culturally accepted and understood at the time, and requires you to be primed to it beforehand. In the end what matters is the utility of the name. If it helps you discover other games like it, it's good. If it doesn't and makes things harder (cough cough RPGs) it's bad.
i love your videos and i liked this but i disagree with your explanation with your explanation dark souls 3, dragons dogma and dragon age inquisition are crpg´s for me its more about the gameplay
how many rpg versions are there? I know only of aprg (action rpg like path of exile) jrpg (japanese rpg like turn based final fantasy) and now just discored crpg, because of warhammer 40k trailer Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I always assumed that 'computer' was used to imply an adaptation (whether faithful or loose) of a ttrpg ruleset/'feel' rather than serving to distinguish from console rpgs
This is also the correct answer :) Consoles weren't part of the picture, really, originally. The term goes all the way back to the 70s - and it was, precisely, to distinguish from PnP RPGs.
I loved the background footage when you're killing the void dragon with a chest, so relatable. :)
Dragon Age Origins was my first crpg and still my favorite.
@@fireflyggamber7637 should I try Baldursgate 1 before bg2? I own both oh them but i found bg1 a little slow for my taste
@@fireflyggamber7637 thanks!
@@fireflyggamber7637 I tried it but its way too much for me to handle. I had no problems playing and completing games like DAO, Wasteland 3 or Divinity OS2 but BG2's systems kind of make it a turn off for me. Same for Underrail and Pathfinder. I am looking forward to Baldur's Gate 3 when it comes out of early access though.
@@fireflyggamber7637 I like both but DAO really modernized DnD instead of just adapting it which fixed a lot of the issues I had with TT/PnP rules in CRPG: removed annoying prebuffing rituals (sustained abilities make so much more sense), separated AC to armor (damage reduction) and defense (dodging), and removed dump stats long before PoE tried the same things. Only thing that was a noticeable downgraded imo was spells; BG2 has by far the best magic system in any game, even modern DnD games. Pathfinder may have more complex systems (OwlCat really needs to add more high level spells) but mage duels in BG2 is like solving a puzzle since there are so many spells which gives immunities, especially with SCS mod where mages are essentially untouchable prebuffed. In DAO, mage battles is just whoever used Mana Clash first, which is a terribly implemented imo.
I got introduced to CRPGs with Baldurs Gate 3.
For me CRPG in a modern sense, are generally the RPG's that play/build on the tropes/features of the RPG's that were traditionally labeled as CRPG's during the time that it meant "computer RPG's" (like Baldur's Gate, original Fallout, etc.). Generally isometric view, generally choice-driven narrative, typically has a party-based set of protagonist/s with companion/s, and typically a deeper character building system relative to the zeitgeist. Also if the game's style of play is described either "real time with pause" or "turn-based" in that dichotomy, that's typically something unique to the genre (unlike real time strategy vs turn-based strategy, there is no "real time with pause strategy")
Parodox grand strategy is essentially real time with pause, but your definition is definitely good enough not to be nitpicked over
I think this is the right answer if there could be one
They are billions is real time with pause
I've played real time with pause games where a mission consists of several characters that can't be expanded upon, such as Shadow Gambit or Sumerian Six. I think the dividing line is whether the game focuses primarily on having challenging gameplay, or expression/ story. Though the line is really blurry mechanically, since the latter has xp and upgrades for skills.
In my opinion, your description and criteria of cRPG fits the description of RPGs in general. What adds the "c" in cRPG is the party based concept where you embark on your adventures with companions, whether they are pre-generated or join at some point. That probably still doesn't narrow it down enough though- maybe add a top down camera view ala isometric style (or something else).
Diablo = aRPG (action)
Baldurs Gate = cRPG (computer/classic/old school)
Tales of Symphonia = jRPG (japaneese/anime style)
Fire Emblem = tRPG (tactical)
Skyrim = RPG (no particular direction)
And then you have games with concepts from multiple styles making them hard to pinpoint. Like Pokemon are a jRPG, but also a tRPG. Divinity Orginal Sin is a cRPG but also a tRPG.
In the end it does not matter what's the correct term is, it's just for quick figuring out your style. As I personally hate the aRPG style and no particulary love for the jRPG style, but I do love cRPG and tRPG. Easy for me to find new games I will enjoy.
We should just go the MetroidVania route and start calling them FallGate-likes. Especially since everyone wants to be a "spiritual successor" these days.
Seeing that DOS1 footage reminded me that I never finished that game. Gonna try to pick it up again.
Never mind defining CRPG, people often can't even agree on what makes an RPG. That said, I pretty much agree with your criteria. I think something about action should be added to the definition, though, but I don't know how to phrase it. My point is that, in the classic days, PCs weren't capable of rendering fast action. That was the defining characteristic of console games, whose limitation was in providing depth in games. So, classic RPGs were relatively slow and methodical, even when they had real time combat. Just a thought.
Thank you for sharing your perspective on this. I grew up a little earlier, in the original RPG gaming era of Ultima 1-4, Moria and Roguelikes, Exile/Avernum, back when RPGs were really only found on old Dos PCs and early Macs. It's interesting how the SNES and similar consoles allowed RPGs to migrate to consoles. If you get a chance, Avernum (the indy second remake of the Exile series) is a very old, still good isometric cRPG with some interesting story decisions. Original came out in 1995, the updated trilogy (2nd time 1-3) wrapped up a few years ago.
Anybody else notice him using the "throwing the chest full of weight" trick in Divinity: OS on that Void Dragon? Learned about that from the Spiffing Brit and noticed Mort doing like over 3k damage per throw with the chest lmao
it's a feature.
CRPG is a big-brain game that both enrages and enthralls its players
Currently going through pillars of eternity 2 ultimate edition. I’m still not sold on the story, but at least now I can see the forest for the trees. It’s a hard game to understand going into it blind. It sometimes has a ‘pick your own adventure’ feel to it, which is growing on me.
To me, the C still stands for "computer", as in a way to say that game is more or less a translation of a tabletop experience, but as a program running on that machine. Which already follows a different formula from jrpg and arpg
I have tried Spellforce 3 reforсed campaign and I was really shocked! I was not expected to find so good "CRPG"-like game which is hiding behind that RTS. Not so much time ago I had finished Greedfall and I want to say that Spellforce 3 campaign is far more great for me as RPG. The main story is interesting, almost each of your companions has his deep own story. More to say, as in many of RPGs in Spellforce 3 you have 8 companions 3 of which you may take as followers. Also youll get your "base" where you may talk with them, have simple artifact craft, sell\buy items. Each of characters has 3 skill tree (+1 affinity skill which you may also unlock) and attributes. I was really surprised! So I recommend you also to try it if youll have a chance.
Maybe because Spellforce always was a RTS-RPG hybrid and you just happened to miss SF1 and SF2? =)
The main RPGs on computers in the 80s were games like the Ultima series (top-down), games like the Wizardry series (first-person perspective), and games like Rogue (roguelikes). In 1986, Enix released Dragon Quest (Dragon Warrior on the NES), the first JRPG, which simplified elements of Wizardry and Ultima so that it would work better on the Famicom. By 2000, CRPGs were games like Baldur's Gate while JRPGs were more movie-like games like Final Fantasy VII that worked well on consoles. Knights of the Old Republic and Mass Effect were *technically* CRPGs when they were released but worked well on consoles and were more cinematic, so the definition of CRPG was revised to specifically mean games like Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale.
After years trying to hopelessly define that, i came to the conclusion that the RPG genre is simply anything that is called an RPG and feel like an RPG. Any definition either include stuff that most people would never call an RPG, or exclude some things that are undeniably RPG. The same is largely true for many subgenres as well.
It's very much a "if you seen one you recognize it as one" situation.
Thanks for this, with the term being thrown around all the time now with the discussion of Baldur’s Gate 3, I needed some clarity on the history of the term.
My definition of a cRPG is that it follows certain norms a table top PnP RPG. Specifically a) it (almost always) involves a party of companions, a team, fully controlled by the player as well as your MC and b) combat and other actions are resolved via character stats plus RNG dice rolls and not the player's physical dexterity with the game controls. This differentiates cRPG from aRPG (or action RPG) such as Witcher 3 where hits etc are determined by the player's physical skill with the combat controls. For me cRPG = party + dice rolls and this is the clear defining difference between cRPGs like Pathfinder WotR and DOS2 and aRPGs like Witcher 3 and Skyrim.
You make some of the greatest gaming content on UA-cam. Period. Thanks for the great videos!
Just curious, what would you consider the old SSI Gold Box games, the Eye of the Beholder series, and stuff like Lands of Lore or Might & Magic?
I love how you said Choice and Consequences.. both of those do seem to be defining characteristics of a CRPG! And it helps that they both start with a C too! 😉 You mentioned Customization too! The 3 C's that put the C in RPG!
What game was rhe last footage from?
Once again, we’ll said
What's the game at 1:12? I should know this but the name escapes me.
Encased
@@trblemayker5157 Thank you.
Guess I am officially old For me it will always be 'computer RPG', first time I heard about 'classical' approach.
Also funny timing of that video, it was just last week when I wondered if Mass Effects is more of cRPG or a shooter with RPG elements. Are you a mindreader now? =P
What game is it at 2:45?
I’m not sure, but i’d say Divinity Original Sin
Can someone tell me the title of the game at: 1:30 ?
Encased
@@Hadmaerd Thank you!
What is the last game in this video called?
Just finished Encased and thinking of starting Solasta or Wasteland 3 next
Great video! I can't think of any CRPGs with "action" combat, it's always turn based or real time with pause. Is that a distinguishing feature? I think the famous "I know it when I see it" quote really suits this situation.
Bit of feedback; it would be good if you put the names of the games playing in the background on the screen. The visual style of the first one really appeals to me and in not sure what it's called.
I was about to comment to ask for this, myself. I'd love to see a little text blurb saying "Currently playing: Such and Such game, date of release" or something.
Well there's a genre called ARPG (action rpg)
@@miraclemaker1418 I'm aware, but he didn't mention combat as a defining factor in the video so I'm interested in whether he thinks that should be a factor or if there's a game that has action combat that some people might consider a CRPG :)
Do you intend on ever reviewing ultima 7 ? Arguably this could be considered one of the first "classic" top-down crpg :)
4 would also be an interesting contender, especially with the choice matters criteria.
This... needs to be done. The Ultima series is a gold standard that really influenced the rpg genre.
Its a shame EA ruined the series after U7.
IMO the best was 5, at least story wise… tho I don’t recommend anyone play Ultima today. They are just too archaic at this point.
Very informative ty much!
speaking of c&c, are you considering covering the witcher games? i get that you're not into games with set protagonists, but tell that to your younger, jrpg-playing self. that train has sailed! =)
I mean I could, I've played all of them, just never bothered to make any videos about them really
I thought the C stood for "character." Haha. Goes to show what I know. Never did play anything in the genre, but I will now, thanks to your great content.
Is there any cRPGs that you can play as solo character aka no party without missing too much of the story, experience or gameplay
fallout 1 and 2 come to mind.
This is almost as hard a question as "what is a soulslike"
I just use CRPG to mean any computerized RPG. Consoles are computers so I include all RPGs played on consoles or any other kind of computer. I take a very inclusive view of what can be considered an RPG. I do count the Dungeons And Dragons arcade games, Zelda, Harvest Moon, etc. I don't think levels, experience points, and character customization are the only elements that make an RPG. Fork Knife has levels. Akalabeth doesn't. Plenty of RPGs have set protagonists and preset level progression. All genres exist on a spectrum. They're judged based on influences, legacy, common audience, contemporary works, and general sentiment. That's why The Lord Of The Rings is in the same genre as Game Of Thrones. And they overlap. Is Star Wars science fiction or fantasy? It's both. And it's action adventure, and it's a space opera, and it's a family saga, and it's a generational epic, etc. Genres are far more inclusive and far less rigid than a lot of people want to make them. So essentially my view is that any videogame that falls somewhere on the RPG spectrum is a CRPG and I think we should generally embrace a more inclusive and fluid attitude when we try to fit media into specific genres
I hadn't heard the term CRPG until recently having not played the like of Fallout and Baldur's Gate when they originally came out, but my conclusion from the games that it was being applied to was that it meant Combat RPG, in essence an RPG with combat as the primary mechanic.
I don't know if that definition works. I've seen several crpgs with at least the ability to invest in a speech skill then bribe or persuade enemies. From what I've seen action rpgs don't tend to have a speech stat, or only use it for haggling. Then again, I'd argue "invest in speech, then roll a die to convince an enemy" is kind of primitive gameplay. I remember Deus Ex Human Revolution had multi step debates with enemies, where you had to make several correct choices to get them to see your way, and it wasn't a simple pass/fail- for example, you might have to bribe them. While that seems like a system begging for expansion, unfortunately big budget games are expected to be fully voice acted, and rpgs already have huge amounts of dialogue and description. Maybe an indie title could do that, where you can be a silver tongued diplomat.
What is the name of your intro song?
It doesn't have a name, it was custom made for this intro by a viewer actually, link to their website in the description
I think with so many views of what a CRPG really is, guess it's important to not get too bothered by it, this certainly seems to have a time framing aspect to it (like early isometric vs modern 3D).
Can agree that the choices, role-playing and character customization are the true core, the rest is more or less semantics people get stuck on.
I always translated CRPG as Character based Roleplaying Game(s).
I was looking up this topic in preparation for Baldurs Gate 3 being released on Xbox Series S soon and I'm glad you have a video on it. I was going to comment asking if there are any free crpgs you'd recommend that aren't very hardware intensive (my PC isn't the greatest 😆) but I see you have a video on CRPGs for beginners so I guess that answers my question (kinda, I'm not sure if you recommend any that are free in that video but I'm about to find out 😅)
Years ago, I used to think that CRPGs were Chinese Roleplaying Game (because JRPGs stand for Japanese Roleplaying Game). Haha.
Also, I saw a game called Alaloth: Champions of The Four Kingdoms. Although it seems to leaning towards Action RPG genre more, they have used 'CRPG' in promo videos. Any chance that you'll cover it in future?
I may be old but to me cRPG means what it always meant: computer role-playing games. As opposed to RPGs, which are role-playing games you play with your friends around a table with dice and characer sheets and all the usual stuff. Now, crpg on it's own does not mean that the game is good or great, it only means that it is an rpg that you play on your computer (console etc.).
Often, just the way I see it used online, I usually assume it just means an older style rpg. I rarely hear anyone call Baldur's Gate 3 a crpg (Tho it clearly could be called such), but I heard almost everyone called WoTR a CRPG. I love both games, just a distinction I noticed.
For me the C stands for classic. Witcher 3, Skyrim, Mass Effect etc are all played on computers and are technically RPGs. You are playing a "role", you can make decisions, there are (usually) consequences to the choices that you make, you can customize your character up to a point. But they are more action games than true RPGs to me.
I mean even Red Dead 2 lets you make decisions, customize your character, your stats level up but I wouldn't call it an RPG. Same with the Far Cry or Assassin's Creed games. The modern RPG games usually have some different elements to them, whereas a game like WOTR is a pure RPG.
Obviously just my opinion but to me CRPGs, even if they are brand new, follow that classic game style set out by the like's of Baldur's Gate and Fallout 1 & 2.
I always considered, and still consider, crpg as games where i can control a party of characters, no matter if these games are isometric or in full 3d.
I'm not a huge fan of crpgs even of i played some of them like Dragon Age Origins, Star Wars KOTOR, Baldurs Gate, Arcanum, Mass Effect and Pillars of Eternity, and my favorite among these titles is Arcanum cause i've completed it twice
To me, every RPG that is played on a computer is cRPG. "C" stands for "computer". Frankly, I don't see a need to change or overcomplicate this classification, it doesn't have to be that strict. As long as the game is good, it doesn't matter. What does the term RPG mean to me? It's simple - being able to roleplay a character and having some choices. Just having things like attributes and talents isn't enough, even some shooters have these mechanics, but don't offer any roleplaying.
@@SeventhheavenDK Consoles are also computers.
@@Morden97 that's like the term "minicomputers" which is not mini at all but at the time when the term is being used it fits because computers back then were way bigger than today, and the minicomputer is smaller yet still bigger in today's computers.
Kinda agree that the Name needs an update.
Hey Mortis, you should try out Kenshi :D
Great vid and good points on the matter. To me a cRPG is a continuation of table top RPGs but on PC.as such anything that derives from tabletops, or has rulesets and rules similar to a tabletop, is a cRPG and everything else is not. Which, for example, makes Baldurs Gate a cRPG to me and Diablo anything but.
and now i feel stupid for never asking anyone
I always thought CRPG meant an adaptation of a tabletop RPG 😮
So it had to be based on dnd, pathfinder, or anything else
I think this is something that plagues genre labels in general, not even just in video games. What is and isn't horror? Where's the exact line between an ARPG and an Action/Adventure game? That band isn't punk! And on and on. Labels are useful to an extent, but ultimately they're open to interpretation and don't REALLY matter.
I think you got the origins a bit mixed up Morty. Originally the term crpg was used to defirintiate between role-playing games on a computer amd pen and paper role-playing games. Back in the 80s and 90s if you said you were playing a role-playing game ods were you were talking about dungeons and dragons or gurps or vampire the masquerade or some other pen and paper game. And these early computer role-playing games were very much trying to recreate that same pen and paper feel on a computer. Everything else you say is accurate because the core of a pen and paper role-playing session has always been that interaction with another human being driving the story. It's about decision making, amd the consequences es of those decisions. Something other rpgs really didn't have. On consoles, jrpgs tended to be extremely linear cinematic experiences with no real choices to make nor any consequences stemming from them.
I think some people get too nitpicky, but my issue is that almost everything gets the "RPG" label thrown on it these days.
I can’t describe a crpg but I know one when I see it
for the algorithm
In the crpg genre, I look for the tactical rpgs ones LOL
What can change the nature of a CRPG?
Dragon Age Origins definitely is a cRPG ; hell, you can even play it in top down mode and one encounter in specific LOVES top down. Morrowind could be considered one, it all depends where we draw the line when it comes to RNG. In fact, why wouldn't Morrowind be a cRPG? Oblivion+ definitely aren't. They are more akin to Open World Action Adventures than anything else. Actually a hybrid between ActAdv and a RPG. A thribrid? Sorry for overly Aeon interpretation.
One thing I'd like to see mended about cRPGs is the sucky Early Game. It really doesn't need to be like that.
For me it would always be: Crpg = Isometric Rpg
That is generally what people mean by it these days, but like many things it doesn't tell the whole story which leads to confusion
CRPG comparison to TRPG?
TRPGs go more in on the combat and usually have a mission structure. Less RPG elements. The line is pretty thin though.
Game genres are weird :D I thinkg CRPG stands for "Classical" where tropes like strategy, deep lore, choice + consequence are more present compare to action RPG where everything you do is somehow connected to the combat most of the time.
From what ive gathered here, CRPG is a role playing game. Any other detail is a maybe, and youre still probably wrong :P
ah yes, the true way to play divinity... a chest full of random garbage and telekinesis
👍🏾👍🏾💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💪🏾💪🏾
cRPG is cRPG, isometric, turn based, solo or with companions… Makes no difference. The degree is arbitrary. The definition is blurred. If I’m to choose between on cRPG or another, I’d rather choose them all.
what is a free comment? this. not complicated.
lmao
From what I’ve heard, the history of the split from CRPG and JRPG started with Dragon Quest.
Yuji Horii, Dragon Quest’s creator, was a big fan of Wizardry and Ultima, and wanted to make an RPG for the Japanese market. Since computer games weren’t really that popular in Japan, he decided to develop it for the Famicom. Because of the much limited storage of a console compared to a computer, many of the game mechanics had to be streamlined and simplified. This meant having a predetermined character, a more linear story, automatic leveling, etc.
So generally speaking, games that follow this more streamlined design are labeled JRPGS, while games that follow the older design of computer RPGS are called CRPGS.
it's a dumb acronym
ARPG has a sense, JRPG has a sense, but CRPG is dumb because all rpg's we play on computers are...on computers..
CRPG and JRPG are equally dumb, because they indicate a "feeling" that goes beyond what it is in the name.
If you ask a person that foes not know the developer identity wich is the JRPG between Undertale and Dark Soul, they will mostly say the former.
@@noukan42 JRPG is not dumb, because it corresponds to specifics: style, origin, gameplay
@@TimmacTR It's not dumb but it becomes subjective. A third person shooter and RPGs are equally broad descriptors, but one is a factual description that doesn't have to talk about how the games "feel" or what their origin or gameplay is like, whereas the other relies on what is culturally accepted and understood at the time, and requires you to be primed to it beforehand.
In the end what matters is the utility of the name. If it helps you discover other games like it, it's good. If it doesn't and makes things harder (cough cough RPGs) it's bad.
i love your videos and i liked this
but i disagree with your explanation
with your explanation dark souls 3, dragons dogma and dragon age inquisition are crpg´s
for me its more about the gameplay
Lol i thought this meant chinese rpg, à la jrpg
how many rpg versions are there?
I know only of
aprg (action rpg like path of exile)
jrpg (japanese rpg like turn based final fantasy)
and now just discored crpg, because of warhammer 40k trailer Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader.
depends on who you ask, one of those things that doesnt really get a clear consensus