It might objectively be the best, and yet, subjectively one can enjoy other entries to the series more. Personally, for all its shortcomings, I've still enjoyed DA2 much more than DA:O. Especially as a mainly archery player, every button in DA2 seemed to do something interesting, while in DA:O, not so much. Also, personally, I liked the story for its smaller, more personal, scale. I thought it was interesting not to play another "save the world as the chosen one" kind of deal, but rather, "save the city as the champion". Yeah I know. :P
@@talahar123 True. DA:O is great for a mage, you get like to cast like a madman with blood magic, while also healing and damaging. It's also cool how you become this mythical entity that draws everyone together for a common cause. Feels epic like LotR. DA:2 is not a "legendary epic told for generations" but a more personal story in a specific location, it simplified it's combat a bit (let's be more generous and call it streamlined) and suddenly spawning enemies from thin air mid combat is a pain in the ass, but now the mage doesn't feel like the strongest most versatile class. DA:I is a weird one, I feel it's a mix of the first two. Focus on characters, while having a "grand storyline". Regardless of if you think that the story is good or bad and the combat was dumbed down or not, it is the easiest entry point for a newcomer.
The thing I love most about that game is the writing. InExile understands the economy of words. There are very few conversation trees that can't be resolved in under two minutes. The writing is tight, focused, and the characters are entertaining. One thing that always kills an RPG for me is having to sift through 30+ minutes of dialogue and lore to understand something. Wasteland remembers that it's a game first and foremost, and keeps the action and fun moving along at a good pace.
People really don't give Wasteland 3 enough credit. The actual impact of choice, both in the narrative but MORE importantly in gameplay loops AFFECTING narrative are second only to really hardcore rpgs. A real find
I may not be a beginner in this genre, but it never hurts to go back to the beginning of your journey. Thanks for the video! Definitely going to use it to help my friends enter the CRPG world! Also a beginner’s guide to TRPGs would also be helpful please
My own progression, as a star wars kid, was knights of the old republic (kotor) on the original xbox, kotor 2, dragon age origins, and then finally pillars of eternity got me fully submerged into the isometric core of the genre. All fantastic games !!
@@lewanjosephnimick9359 I genuinely don't remember my first. I think it was Baldurs Gate 2. I think I've played nearly all of them except Pillars, including both Neverwinter games.
One series of games that he didn't mention, that I think are good and newbie friendly are the Shadowrun trio of games, Returns, Dragonfall, and Hong Kong. While it definitely helps if you are familiar with the Shadowrun TTRPG, I don't think that is really necessary.
Really surprised you didn't mention the Shadowrun games. They're arguably the best starter cRPG games out and they're fairly modern. Plus the setting/story is great
I was also thinking about Harebrained Schemes' Shadowrun series too - they don't have complicated systems either. I personally enjoyed that there's barely any item management and there's no need to worry about equipping any of the companions since they each have their own premade loadouts; leaves more time to the story and action which are both super fun.
Ditto. Straight forward and you don't need to spend hours in a spreadsheet trying to build your characters. Great for people who just want the experience without the sheer investment most games in the genre want you to.
One interesting bit of trivia is that the Knights of the Old Republic games use a pen and paper RPG system and you can check the combat log in the menus.
KotOR uses the Neverwinter Nights engine to the point where the classes are actually still listed as sorceror/wizard/etc in the game code. They just polished off the edges and went with it.
I think my first was Fallout 2, which later led to Fallout 1, Baldur's Gate 1-2 and Planescape: Torment in quick succession. To this day, I find myself replaying them and never getting tired of neither the gameplay nor the story. Truly awesome games.
@@GoAlphaIce It went a bit too far in its pop culture references and the end part doesn't quite jive with me, but on the whole, it's a true masterpiece of a game.
@@GoAlphaIce I played Fallout 1 and 2 multiple times, and for me at least the first one has a better story and overall better gameplay. But both are great games.
glad to see Tyranny here. I feel like as far as isometric RPGs go, it's the perfect game for a newcommer to the genre. it's not a "casual" game per se, but it's a lot less complex than Pillars. and it's so much fun, it's short and so fun to come back to once in a while. the world is quite unique, as well as your place in it. probably my second favourite RPG ever (behind New Vegas).
Baldur's Gate 1 was my first "Old school" CRPG that I played, and I played it for the first time just last year. I had so much difficulty getting used to it - Some encounters were just absolutely brutal, with swarms of powerful enemies, wizards and all sorts of nasty stuff attacking you at the same time. But then I realized something - If the game doesn't play fair, you shouldn't play fair either. You have all those same tools that the enemy has, and you can always leave, or rethink an encounter in such a way that you can trivialize it. After I realized that and I started being able to dismantle encounters I really, really started to love the game.
I tried Baldur's Gate 1 for the first time two months ago and I really think it didn't age well enough to recommend it to a newcomer to the genre in 2023.
@@Jolfgard I actually just try the Baldur's Gate 1 today after having played POE2, DOS2, Wasteland 3, Tyranny. I find it really hard to see what's going on lol. As expected, I just drop it like 30 mins in.
The key to games like Baldur's Gate 1 is to get used to the Real Time Pause system. Pausing the game during encounters is a primary game mechanic and is a must. You have to pause frequently during battles to make adjustments, otherwise the chaos gets out of control.
Understanding the spell system is crucial in Baldur's Gate I and II. Wizards can instantly zap themselves with heavy protections, but once you learn how to dispell them it gives you a fighting chance. Exactly the same with some monsters having certain immunities. The messages will tell you what's going on.
I played DOS2 for my first real CRPG as well, and I loved it. Now for my second CRPG i'm playing pathfinder : wotr, and I don't really think it's that hard to get into. Usually I'm hopelessly restarting games because I feel i missed some crucial steps, or i leveled my characters wrong. But I didn't do this with pathfinder and am now at the end of my first playthrough. I do have to say though, I am still very glad I followed your advice and started on normal, instead of core. I think this saved me form my usual restarting habit. So thanks again Mort!
Starting with the infinity engine games and KOTOR 1&2 was the best intro for me. Started my CRPG journey a little over 3 months ago after mass buying a whole load of CRPG classics and the modern mainstays inspired by them. This all really started because of Disco Elysium and replaying KOTOR. This channel also helped immensely.
Couldn't agree more. Tyrrany was and is an excellent game. Really wish it could have a sequel, especially as the story ends on a bit of a cliff hanger.
The original baldurs gate games actually had extremely complete explanations of the pertinent rules. They had them in the physical rulebook that accompanied those releases. I think I lost mine about 4 moves ago :(
Yep, that's why even after a CD got caught in my PC and broke in pieces I still kept the manual from that now unplayable game. I believe the GOG releases come with the original in box manual as a PDF also.
My experience with Baldur's Gate 1 on Normal was miserable in terms of difficulty. One tip I can give to newcomers is to use potions and scrolls. I was conditioned by 99% of the games I played in my life to see those as optional small boosts but in BG1 its crucial. If you don't chances are you'll get obliterated in a lot of encounters. BG2 was very different for me, I already had a lot of previous knowledge from 1 so I played on Core and it felt amazing.
I've been gaming for 30+ years, but only on console. Recently got my first gaming PC and are now exploring some genres I've missed out on. Bought Tyranny, PoE 1 and BG1:EE on various sales after watching your videos but they honestly intimidate me to the point that I'm a bit hesitant to even get started, even though I think they all seem very interesting 🫣 Closest I've played was Disco Elysium which I really loved! I did however manage to (kind of) learn Europa Universalis IV, which at first glance seemed totally impossible, so I guess I just gotta pick one of them and get going!
Same here, but the opposite. I started on computers and PC's, drifted into consoles by accident. The differance is quite drastic, and I love it. Consoles are much more action, NOW NOW NOW based. PCs are more "click everything, weigh up your decicion, we'll get there, its all fine.... " Even getting a gaming controller to work on my PC is an issue, obviously on a console, it just... works! The two areas are slowly merging, but I do think the PC games are dumbed down to meet the console games. You mentioned Europa Unuvsalis - anything from Paradox will always be hard to learn and a very steep curve - but worth it. A very good studio that sucks at tutorials! Try the Total War stuff for... "fun"?!?!? Makes my brain bleed just thinking about it but, its a great series...
DOS2 was my first and boy it opened my eyes - I've always loved character progression & strategy so it was a natural fit. I tend to bounce off of real-time pause games, but turn-based is right up my alley. Pillars felt really difficult and I got stuck while super underleveled in a certain undead area in Deadfire that just killed my motivation to keep playing. Pathfinder feels a lot better, but when I saw the customization and story options available in WOTR I just couldn't keep playing Kingmaker. I hope to pick up WOTR soon & try Wasteland 3 as well - seems like another great fit since I love DOS2 & XCOM. Also, BG3 is going to be absolutely revolutionary since I'm a big D&D fan! My only major complaint for games like this is that there's SO many build options that I'm paralyzed with choices & the fear of making either a boring or underpowered build - but following a step by step guide takes all the fun out of making those choices for yourself - and these games typically don't make respecs very accessible.
After playing a LOT of crpgs, I can say that often, the talky/charismatic thief-type builds usually give the most interesting openings or ways to solve quests. Strength builds are easy but charisma/int/dex builds lead down more interesting paths
I've been playing rpgs since I was little, and crpgs are starting to become my preferred gaming genre as a whole; with Larian and Obsidian being my two favorite devs in the space. I'd really love to see either of them do some work in the Dragon Age, Star Wars, or Warhammer Fantasy universes.
Thx to you I've tried poe1 as my first crpg since kotor and dragon age origins. I'm finding it a little difficult to learn the mechanics underneath but enjoying it slowly, little bit at a time. Almost done everything in act 1 and I'm excited for the story to get going but enjoying the world building. I think I lean more to action rpgs but happy to have a new genre
Honestly im a huge CRPG fan and even I didnt finish that game. Dont get me wrong its not bad but I think there are many better ones out there. For example the Divinity Original Sin games or Wasteland 3 or even the two Pathfinder games. Dont get discouraged if u get bored of this one as there are many better ones in the genre you have to look forward to!
@@vuky258_ Ah see now I personally loved pillars. One of my favourites. Really loved the world building and overall tone. But yeah, I can definitely appreciate why it rubs some people the wrong way.
@@vuky258_ Yea I understand, I have div 1 waiting in case I get bored of this. I'm just playing an hour at a time so I don't get over whelmed. Right now I'd only rate it a 6 or 7 out of 10 but I'm in act one and happy to see it evolve but I understand why people wouldn't finish it. I'm also wanting to play it for the lore before Avowed releases
My very first was Neverwinter Nights 2! Everything else just snowballed from there (fallout, baldur’s gate, kotor, vampire the masquerade, dragon age, wasteland, and so on) But I would definetly recommend Pathfinder: WotR for a more modern flare, if anyone asked me ☺️
I tried play pathfinder WoTR for my first CRPG and it was pretty hard to get in to, because you said divinity was a good start I got it and it was on sale so I am hoping to become a fan of CRPGs hoping divinity original sin 2 will help me get into them. I really like pathfinder but it was so systems heave I felt way lost. Really good video, I've watched a lot of your reviews and you definitely are one of the best reviewers out there!
IMO Solasta is the best beginner crpg out there, if only for it's simplicity. You manage only 4 characters all of which you build yourself from the start. The main campaign is linear with sidequests, a good formula in that it shows the player they are on the right path. It has less "system overload" than other games as well, even the crafting system is nice and clear. The way it presents information is done in a clear, fresh way that I appreciate. Lastly, there are no side management things, its basically a straight up dungeon crawler. After seeing 5e done well in a game I'm excited to play BG3 as my next step!
Wasteland 3 was the first crpg that I played and I absolutely loved it. It is still probably my favourite. Currently playing Divinity: OS2 and I am enjoying so far. Really looking forward to W40K: Rogue Trader more than anything in the genre.
Not sure if there has been tons of changes but D:OS2 was pretty brutal when it first came out, at least for me. There were some fights that I had to keep saving and reloading in order to beat.
Good video as per usual! It's funny that I've been playing CRPGs for about 3 years now consistently, but have only have played Wasteland 3 on this list haha. Shadowrun Dragonfall and Hong Kong are also great beginner-friendly CRPGs for anyone who wants to get into the genre.
The Pre Fallout Wasteland game was such a fun game! Solasta was a fun basic 5E system game with mostly custom stuff! Baldurs Gate 1 & 2 are so much fun! Planescape Torment is the best of the Baldurs Gate Game system games, imho!
I've just finished DOS2, and it was a great experience, but boy oh boy, the last area was brutal. The game got super hard, and I struggled a lot. As a guy who always heard about DOS2 the last area was a bit of a bummer. I ended up enjoying Wasteland 3 more.
I'd love a TRPGs for beginners video. I'm currently terrible at them, and they seem so daunting. On that note, I love when you mention difficulty levels and settings in your videos. Useful!
I would recommend Warhammer 40K: Mechanicus. It's pretty simple and easy to learn. Also the soundtrack and all other soundeffects are insanely well done. I started with XCOM2 as my first, and i dropped it because it was too hard for me at the time. But Mechanicus was easy to get in to for me, the tutorials are pretty good. And I feel it's way less punishing than XCOM2.
Dragon Age: Origins (cinematic) & Shadowrun Returns (short & simple) are 2 of the games I will always recommend to newcomers that want to get into the genre. After that, they are free to explore whichever game they find interesting in the space. These 2 games also introduce people to the 2 types of combat systems typically found in these games, real-time with pause (DA:O) & turn-based (Shadowrun). Plus, I think their combat gameplay isn't as confusing or overwhelming to get into for newcomers that want to just pick 1 and jump right in.
Would love to see a video along the lines of “The 5 studios I’m most interested in finding out what their next game is” with some speculation sprinkled in. Thanks for the consistently great content!
Great video and great games all of them. I would strongly recommend Pillars 2 to "beginners" looking to get into (isometric) CRpg genre. Great game that holds a great balance between easy(ier) and a difficult challenge in my opinion, not to mention the world build and the lore which is quite interesting..
I've been trying to get into CRPGs for some time now. The first one that really clicked with me was Wasteland 3. Enjoyed it a lot and plan on giving Divonity Original Sin 1&2 a second try.
What a time to be a CRPG gamer. The only downside is that I've already played/tried most of these (and have re-played a handful of them too). Can't wait for new stuff to come out later this year!
I'd probably swap D:OS2 and Solasta's spots in this list; the dual armor system and damage type splits along with elemental reactions must be understood to make effective builds in D:OS2, while the 5e core ruleset Solasta is built on is so simplified that it's hard to go wrong with. Always great to see your crpg videos.
I'ma a beginner and have started my journey with Wrath of the Righteous. I'm thoroughly enjoying it, tho there are occasions where i feel so overwhelmed
I started playing Wrath of the Righteous. I'm not familiar with DnD and tabletop RPGs, by the way. Even though, yes, Pathfinder games really are mechanically overwhelming, I find myself deeply immersed in my WotR playthrough. It's the first CRPG that I play properly (as opposed to just messing around for an hour before uninstalling), and I'm having a blast so far!
The only thing stopping me from diving into Pillars of Eternity and Bladur's Gate is that I'm intimidated my 'Real Time with pause' system. I played bg1 for a while and was overwhelmed. P.S. - Though poe2 has turn based option, they were some people who opposed it saying 'its not how the game was intended to be played' so I was taken aback by that.
For me, turn based combat is a total turn off. Persona 4 and XCOM EW have been the only turn based RPGs I've actually been able to play and have fun with.
You should try out Fear & Hunger and especially the new sequel, Termina. They're RPG Maker games, but they're both pretty different than your standard RPG Maker games. While there is an element of RNG to the gameplay, most of the game is actually beaten by knowing what to do. While the game is very punishing with it's save system, you'll get better as you learn from your losses. Dying can be frustrating, but once you learn that frustration turns into a sense of triumph. The exciting gameplay is just one great aspect of the game, as the grimdark setting and deep lore are really well done. The sequel is seriously one of my new favorite games of all time. It improves on some of the shortcomings of the original and it offers so much more variety with the extra skills you can learn and the plethora of unique characters you can play as. The subject matter is quite dark in places and you'd have to do some censoring of certain enemies if you were to use footage of them in a video. It's worth it though as there's really nothing else like it out there.
The tactics mechanics of DA:O was the best game feature of the DA series.... target and action priorities plus combos and less micromanagement made it 10/10
yea, I was a little disappointed as they drifted away from these mechanices, DA:O is one of my all time favorites and the only entry in the franchise that got me interested in the universe.
For over a decade I’ve always thought that C in CRPG stood for “CLICK” as in you click where you want to move. Click to interact etc. I guess I was my guess wasn’t too far off the mark considering how many CRPG rely on using mouse clicks.
I would say that the Pillars of Eternity series are my favorite so far. I love CRPG games and I think the Divinity series is also top notch but somehow I can't bring myself to finish either game more than once. While I've finished POE Dreadfire 4 times.
I love this video, you give a very nice breakdown of the different varieties of CRPGs and most of these are definitely worth playing if you have some spare time. I would definitely recommend either of the Original Sin games to anyone looking to dip their toes into this kind of game, it's newbie-friendly enough for most people, and good looking enough to please most gamers.
Bit late but thanks for the video I loved it I got into the genre through baldurs gate 3 and was worried I'd be kind of spoiled for others. But I'm playing Pillars of Eternity now and I'm loving it. Excellent story and world building. Thanks again
I would say that Pillars 2 is fantastic for beginners. The system is not very complicated. It has a great encyclopedia and you you can hover your mouse over every keyword in the game to get an explanation of what they mean.
It's my favorite CRPG ever but not sure if it's good for beginners, it's pretty complicated with the multiclass system. Also the story can be confusing if you haven't played Pillars 1 (they shouldn't have made it a direct sequel IMO). Still a beginner could always look up the POE1 story and then also avoid multiclassing too much (or just play on easier difficulty so it doesn't matter).
Fallout 1 and 2. If I was able to figure out how to play them as a kid with only a rudimentary knowledge of english language, everybody can, and it's a great start to CRPGs, because the rules are simple, everything is explained and the story is great. Honestly even today after playing modern games with lots of quality of life upgrades I can't really complain about anything in those two games.
This makes me want to replay Kotor. . .I got to the last mission in the game, but encountered a game-breaking bug that locked me in a room, so I never actually finished it. That was one of the first good RPG games I played growing up.
Just recently stumbled across your channel (BG3 hype...), really great content you have going on! Kudos on this video in particular, and I'd just like to second the recommendation for "Tyranny" in particular. Great game that often gets overlooked - compelling story, interesting characters and a lot of meaningful choices. And personall I also appreciate that it's not too long, probably around 20 hours for a fresh playthrough. Very nice package!
I'm a huge RPG gamer, but I never got into the CRPG genre, so this video is exactly what I think I need! 🙌🏼 Edit: Did not expect DA Origins to be on this list. I played this when it came out and it blew me away. Think I've finished it 3 times in total since.
I started out with the original Fallout games, loved them to bits! So the isometric perspective will always be dear to me. More recently I played Pillars of Eternity and Wasteland 3, two quite different experiences. I have the older Baldur's Gate games as well as Planetscape Torment and Icewind Dales in my library but haven't touched them yet. Also got Encased and the Divinity games, but likewise have not touched them! Time is of the essence, and I do play other style games too, currently I'm (literally) submerged in SubNautica and loving it. What do people think of the Shadowrun series? Wouldn't they classify as CRPGs?
I don't know why but I was really excited to play Original Sin 2. But the more I played it the more tedious the game felt and by the end of it I actually had to force my self to finish it. I positively hated it. Maybe it was my build, maybe it was the very weak final act. I know they did something with the final parts of the game to make it better and I do feel like playing it again sometimes but it just feels a bit daunting when I seriously consider playing it again.
I had to edit this because I forgot the most important part: This list and your channel are both great! Its obvious you have a passion for this very special and often underappreciated genre. So, thank you very much for doing videos like these. And now, on to my comment 😀 I am surprised that Planescape: Torment did not end up on your list. [Side note: this explanation is for the other commenters. I would not insult you by implying you did not already know exactly what this game is] Just your intro area of the game (Mortuary) is so chocked full interesting conversation, little morality choices, and puzzles it is mind blowing. It is easy to get into, nothing feels forced and it is in many ways quite forgiving because death is not meant to be punishing. With so much to explore both physically and psychologically I would put it in the top crpgs of all time. It has even been remastered so it runs perfectly on modern hardware. It's so good IMO that its hard to pick the best things about it but if I had to I would say its the fact that encourages you to try ANYTHING and it is designed to make you think about what you believe and why with rewards for have in depth discussions even with your party members that make a huge impact on the game.
If anyone is curious, back then CRPG was used to differentiate from what RPGs originally meant (tabletop games like D&D and GURPS) and those made in a computer, hence the C. Nowadays, you can find that the usage of CRPGs in gaming spaces is that it shares the same game design and concepts of these older CRPGs, like Wizardry, Gold Box Games, Baldur's Gate, Fallout. Which is definitely evident in games like Pillars, WOTR, DOS:2, etc. I think it's the most general and safe description of what a CRPG (currently) is without causing too much disagreements imo
Something that is not said outright here about Baldur's gate : it's from a time before tutorials, so don't expect to understand the game without reading guides or the manual (which is partly narrated by Elminster and Volo, so it's not just dry rules all the way and worth reading anyway) - unless they added a tutorial in the enhanced edition which I never tried. Same with Arcanum which has the best manual ever (to my knowledge)
I'm not new to the genre, but I really enjoyed this subject. I think I agree with you, nearly game for game. PoE is a very tough introduction to cRPGs, and I don't think anyone should play the second without the first (I think it kinda ruins it, you might discover it in game - but the story is somewhat, um, complicated?). But, it is worth it - and almost makes the Infinity Engine games look easier... I come from a very long, extensive tabletop gaming background - and I grew up with both AD&D 1e and the Gold Box games from SSI. So, in a way, Baldur's Gate came naturally - but PoE made me earn my knowledge... The Pathfinder games are very tough, but they are the tempting point of entry - they are beautiful, AA titles. After years of gaming this style of by the book RPG - they kicked my ass, repeatedly. I do tend to build niche characters and play on hard levels, but... at least it tells you more than PoE does, LOL? I think for ease of use in Sci-Fi that the Shadowrun games are pretty friendly. The graphics are not stellar, but they are used well. They tend to be somewhat, or entirely, cut and dried - but it is a good turn based introduction for anyone. I don't tend to recommend real-time with pause combat to anyone younger than me unless they play ttRPGs or know the genre. Sorry for babbling - thanks for this video, it was a great introduction to your channel for those who don't know it (I've been following along for a few years, I think you were one of my first real subscriptions...)
I’ve never really understood the emphasis on which system (dnd, advanced dnd, whatever it may be) a game uses. I’ve never noticed it effect how I play or what I really do. Care to explain what I’m missing?
My first CRPG was.... wait for it.... Wizardry 1, from 1984. I was 17 and it was the best darn game you could play on an Apple 2+. Me and my buddies did an all nighter to finish it. After a bunch of pretty crappy games in the 90s, including subsequent Wizardry games, then came BG1, and a new era was born. Since then, I've played many on your list, and the one that I always think about - the characters, the music, the story - is Planescape Torment. It's like a book I've read over and over. One thing you may want to mention to new players of the older games is that there are tons of playthrough guides on the interwebs that for many games, make it both easier and in some case, the only way I could finish the games. Because BG titles were so story heavy, the playthrough don't take away too much from the experience. I wouldn't use them on my first go, unless stuck, but they were great on the second run. Shout out to Icewind Dale, as well.
Although ihey're older I'd also recommend both Icewind Dale games. They're more combat orientated and have little to no focus on the characters, as you create your own team. Also, the 2nd game uses 3rd Edition, which is a little more forgiving than 2nd Edition. Also 3.5e was improved and used for Neverwinter Nights 2 (possibly Neverwinter Nights but that maybe 3.0). And Dragon Age: Orgins is one of the greatest RPGs ever made. Oh and another 3rd Person non-isometric game I'd recommend for beginners is The Outer Worlds. It's light on systems but has the choice options that a lot of modern cRPGs lack. It's also not especially difficult. Mortym, have you played Atom RPG: Trudograd? I know it's an expansion but it's also a stand alone. I was curious whether anything was improved with this over the original?
POE2 was my first CRPG, such a great game! Edit: Oh and the Table Top rules come with POE2 when you buy it, they put it in the game files, haven't played with them but thought it was a cool.
Honestly agree! The games are relatively short and are easy to get into in terms of mechanics and visuals! I think it's more of a setting thing because there are no other CRPGs that tackle urban fantasy, so people (like me lol) may crave that when looking for other games in the genre
I'm currently working through a playthrough of Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous, I've previously played Pillars of Eternity and Dragon Age Origins, and in my opinion, Pillars of Eternity is the best place to start with Isometric CRPGs, primarily because of its depth in combat. Comparing it to Wrath of Righteous is almost not even fair. In WotR, combat is mostly just auto-attacking and the actual strategy comes from buffing your party and debuffing enemies and your build choices. PoE's character builds have less depth but the combat is so much more deep, one of my favorite examples is that to flank someone in WotR, you just need to have two party members in melee with an enemy. In PoE, you actually need to have one of your two or more characters behind the enemy to get a flank. PoE also gives the player a variety of abilities they can use on each party member with cooldowns you need to manage, this system is entirely absent from WotR. In general, the purpose of me writing all of this is to show that there's actually a lot of variety to be had in CRPGs and that if one of them isn't to your taste, that doesn't mean that others won't be. Give several of them a try!
i'm very into JRPGs but i tried out Pillars of Eternity and now i am obsessed with CRPGs and my bank account is glaring at me because i bought several of them
Very helpful videos. I am mostly new to the genre, played Dragon Age: Inquisition and a few tabletops briefly, and I want to get into BG3. Seems like PoE II and Shadowrun Returns, based on your other video, are ones for me to try. Thanks so much!
Original sin 2 was the first CRPG I really got into and the reason I really like the genre now. Funnily enough I also vastly prefer RTWP over turn-based combat.
Same for me. Got 700+ hrs in it by now. Together with a friend I've, since discovering Dos2, also played multiple playthroughs of Divinity original sin 1 and Solasta. Wasteland 3, even though it's a great game, only lasted one coop playthrough with us. While in Dos2 your initiative determines the order of characters turns, in Wasteland 3 player one always has all his characters go first and so often there isn't much left to do for player two. The wait between players is longer this way too.
@@Tekel-Upharsin Absolutely love Dos2 myself! 😊 Still find new little things after over 700 hrs, like the dialog with the female dwarf in Driftwood, that you get the thievery +2 gloves from. She wants to know about Butter from Fort Joy. All these little connected threads weave a great immersive world and the magic system is so rewarding of experimentation. Just like the crafting. Perfect game.
While I loved DOS2, I thought it was quite hard to become competent at. I admit to mostly surviving my way through the game. Solasta is an excellent game to learn CRPG's on though. Cheers
Great list I have played Wasteland 3, both Pathfinders, Divinity 2, Solasta, pillar of eternity, Baldurs gate,... Your tastes are so similar to mine that i´m gonna buy the Atom RPG.
Biggest issue I have with Crpgs are many of them are anti grind to the point no monsters respawn and there is no way to gain more loot/exp if you so wish. I also like going back to old areas and seeing how much my party has improved.
Haven't thought about KOTOR in several years... Installing now on my sidekick rig, for when the games on my main rig get tedious ;-) Thanks for the bump!
So in my opinion, I actually think something like Shadowrun Dragonfall is the best place to start for a beginner. For two reasons. One, it doesn't overload the player with complicated systems and is very easy to learn. But two, which I think is something you have completely overlooked and that is voice acting. So if you tell a beginner to start off with games like Divinity Original Sin 2 or Wasteland 3, it's more likely they'll never end up playing a cRPG that doesn't have full voice acting. Not to say that every single one won't, but most will not. Shadowrun Dragonfall is an excellent starting choice because not only is the writing fantastic but it's also very succinct. It's not super wordy like most other cRPGs without voice acting. So it's the perfect game to ease a beginner into the genre without turning them off completely from games that don't have voice acting.
I never noticed that I played that many CRPGs till I watched this video. Out of this video I have finished the following. Pathfinder WOTR Pathfinder kingmaker Wasteland 3 Divinity Original sin 1 and 2 Tyranny Pillars of eternity 1 and 2 Dragon age origin And you forgot to mention Neverwinter nights 2. I am looking forward the most for Baldur gates 3 to be released, and of course Rogue trader, Since my favourite crpg so far is WOTR.
I'm trying to play crpgs in the order of their release date. It'll be interesting to see the evolution of crpgs. I'm on the character creation screen for BG1. I should finish my character by 2025. Reroll reroll reroll. Pretty sure I can roll a natural 100.
I think something like pathfinder can definitely get someone unfamiliar with the genre into it, just the sheer depth and amount the game has to offer in the character creation alone will make a lot of players stick with it regardless and learn those systems.
One game that seems to be passed over, perhaps of its genre is "Battletech" by Harebrained Software. It easily qualifies as a CRPG, because you have character development and quirks that cause little events as time goes by and you travel the galaxy. You run your own mercenary outfit that runs around in battle robots (mods add vehicles, VTOLs and even small battlesuits), and I also found the included main campaign that includes a full plot and voiceovers to be rather engaging. It also has fantastic mods that make the game more complex, and it has a sandbox mode.
I just got back into computer gaming after 2 decades off. Picking up Wasteland 2 + 3 after 20 years (I played the original Wasteland on MS/DOS) felt like coming home.
I started with BG2, when i was like 10. Didnt get a thing but was intrigued af. Then tried again with lie 14 and liked it even more and fooled around a bit. With sixteen i finished my first pt of it and payed all the known crpgs that are around from ten on. ❤
Get your spouse or significant other to play with you! Divinity Original Sin 2, Solasta and Wasteland all have exceptional fully implemented Co-op systems. The experience of these games is enriched playing with people. My girlfriend (who was not a gamer) was not thrilled at first giving DoS 2 a go but after a couple hours in she was sold on this genre to where we mostly replaced our evening leisure time of television into a more compelling experience. What I mean is, I can’t take this woman to town without her causing problems. Getting swindled out of her pants in a card game, breaking her out of jail, tavern brawls, or getting abducted at the brothel in a compromised position. It’s important to always have something to do! These games are all about the experience and agency to the player. Winning for us comes down to our often ridiculous party compositions and surviving my girlfriends questionable decision making skills. Oh and the writing and voice acting in these games often puts triple A film to shame who have a larger marketing budget than many of these studios have budgets to build their product.
While not a CRPG but a turn based game with talent trees for your soldiers and different classes, weapons and loadouts I highly recommend XCom2 (if you dont know the game look up Marbozir), it also has tons of mods to download. And for me DoS1:EE is much better than DoS2, but thats of course subjective. I just enjoy the whole combat much more in DoS1.
Dragon Age Origins was technically my first crpg ever. I played it on xbox 360 before I even knew what a crpg was. Definitely one of the games of all time.
@@MortismalGaming thanks for the answer, I'm a bit like you but on the French side 😁 and I Find what you do Really inspiring for my content. The quality / quantity you have on Ur Channel IS just Amazing. Thats why I was asking how you make your script.
Hooooooly crap! Thank you for the suggestion on Solasta Never on my radar, probably never would have tried without your glowing recommendation Not even through the first mission and I like it a LOT more than Pathfinder WOTR Thank you!!
About BG1 difficulty : I noticed, watching streams, that players who do not optimize the AC of their "tank" or do not properly make sure enemies attack only their "tank", get their asses kicked in pretty badly. So BG1 is rather deadly for less cautious or less tactical players. Mind you, the same is true for POE 1 & 2 : hard fights are won easily if you manage your party correctly and if enemies attack your "tank", but they can be super hard for players who don't take the time to micro-manage movement and their stats.
For fun, I used Jaheira as my tank in BG1 & 2. Druid/Fighters can use any armor and shields (strangely enough considering all the restrictions imposed on other multiclasses!). In BG2, she was often transformed into a mustard jelly when tanking magical creatures and dragons.
While I've known about CRPG's for a very long time I didn't truly start playing them until 2017 with the Demo Of Divinity Original Sin 1 then later I got Divinity Original Sin 2 played it fell in love with it Now Baldur’s Gate 3 has truly awoken my love for CRPG's whereas The Divinity Original Sin duology planted the seeds and is the foundation that got me into CRPG'S to begin with For me The Divinity Original Sin duology is the "Grandfather's" of the genre for me personally I know others would probably say for them it's Baldirs Gate 1 or 2 maybe Icewind Dale or Planescape Torment
Not me, who can't get into Divinity OS II even though the world interests me very much, looking at this video and thinking "oh yeah, maybe I should watch to see if there's something more entry-level first" lmao
Dragon Age: Origins really is the best of its series, especially on the role-playing aspect
in fact it's the best at everything except graphics and romances (and DLC maybe, they're just ok)
It might objectively be the best, and yet, subjectively one can enjoy other entries to the series more. Personally, for all its shortcomings, I've still enjoyed DA2 much more than DA:O. Especially as a mainly archery player, every button in DA2 seemed to do something interesting, while in DA:O, not so much. Also, personally, I liked the story for its smaller, more personal, scale. I thought it was interesting not to play another "save the world as the chosen one" kind of deal, but rather, "save the city as the champion". Yeah I know. :P
@@talahar123 True. DA:O is great for a mage, you get like to cast like a madman with blood magic, while also healing and damaging. It's also cool how you become this mythical entity that draws everyone together for a common cause. Feels epic like LotR.
DA:2 is not a "legendary epic told for generations" but a more personal story in a specific location, it simplified it's combat a bit (let's be more generous and call it streamlined) and suddenly spawning enemies from thin air mid combat is a pain in the ass, but now the mage doesn't feel like the strongest most versatile class.
DA:I is a weird one, I feel it's a mix of the first two. Focus on characters, while having a "grand storyline". Regardless of if you think that the story is good or bad and the combat was dumbed down or not, it is the easiest entry point for a newcomer.
@@armelior4610 Awakeing DLC is really good tho :)
@@Revanchist right, I just count it as an expansion (I have it on dvd)
Wasteland3 is a gem for starter. Great story, easy to start, killer music. It is fun.
Agreed and you can just fix your builds with money if mess up
@@rundown132 no, second one is way rougher
The thing I love most about that game is the writing. InExile understands the economy of words. There are very few conversation trees that can't be resolved in under two minutes. The writing is tight, focused, and the characters are entertaining. One thing that always kills an RPG for me is having to sift through 30+ minutes of dialogue and lore to understand something. Wasteland remembers that it's a game first and foremost, and keeps the action and fun moving along at a good pace.
Wasteland 3 is so much better than the second Game.
Definitely a great game and colorful story with adult themes! It really started to remind me of a book that I read a longtime ago. 😊
People really don't give Wasteland 3 enough credit. The actual impact of choice, both in the narrative but MORE importantly in gameplay loops AFFECTING narrative are second only to really hardcore rpgs. A real find
I may not be a beginner in this genre, but it never hurts to go back to the beginning of your journey. Thanks for the video! Definitely going to use it to help my friends enter the CRPG world! Also a beginner’s guide to TRPGs would also be helpful please
I wish I had friends like you! I love RPGs of all kinds, and I'm finally getting into cRPGs! 8^)
My own progression, as a star wars kid, was knights of the old republic (kotor) on the original xbox, kotor 2, dragon age origins, and then finally pillars of eternity got me fully submerged into the isometric core of the genre. All fantastic games !!
Damn, you weren't kidding when you said we had the same path haha. Although technically I played kotor 2 about 4 years before kotor 1 haha
@@lewanjosephnimick9359 I genuinely don't remember my first. I think it was Baldurs Gate 2. I think I've played nearly all of them except Pillars, including both Neverwinter games.
I started with the og Neverwinter nights, then kotr and every other bioware game. However, I didn't really get into crpgs until the obsidian games.
One series of games that he didn't mention, that I think are good and newbie friendly are the Shadowrun trio of games, Returns, Dragonfall, and Hong Kong. While it definitely helps if you are familiar with the Shadowrun TTRPG, I don't think that is really necessary.
Really surprised you didn't mention the Shadowrun games. They're arguably the best starter cRPG games out and they're fairly modern. Plus the setting/story is great
I was also thinking about Harebrained Schemes' Shadowrun series too - they don't have complicated systems either. I personally enjoyed that there's barely any item management and there's no need to worry about equipping any of the companions since they each have their own premade loadouts; leaves more time to the story and action which are both super fun.
Was surprised myself..I got a friend into crpg's with Dragonfall.
Love the entire series actually.
THIS! I am always surprised at how many people overlook the Shadowrun series of games. They are by far the most simplified CRPGs in the whole genre.
Ditto. Straight forward and you don't need to spend hours in a spreadsheet trying to build your characters. Great for people who just want the experience without the sheer investment most games in the genre want you to.
I came to the comments to look for this comment. I own them but haven't dived in yet. I need to put them higher on the list.
One interesting bit of trivia is that the Knights of the Old Republic games use a pen and paper RPG system and you can check the combat log in the menus.
The Pathfinder games are the same way. There is a detailed breakdown of the virtual dice rolls behind every combat action in the combat log.
KotOR uses the Neverwinter Nights engine to the point where the classes are actually still listed as sorceror/wizard/etc in the game code. They just polished off the edges and went with it.
@@waltlock8805 You could tell because it seemed so much like D20 star wars. That was part of what I liked about it
I think my first was Fallout 2, which later led to Fallout 1, Baldur's Gate 1-2 and Planescape: Torment in quick succession. To this day, I find myself replaying them and never getting tired of neither the gameplay nor the story. Truly awesome games.
Same thing, nothing beats Fallout 2
@@GoAlphaIce It went a bit too far in its pop culture references and the end part doesn't quite jive with me, but on the whole, it's a true masterpiece of a game.
@@GoAlphaIce I played Fallout 1 and 2 multiple times, and for me at least the first one has a better story and overall better gameplay. But both are great games.
glad to see Tyranny here. I feel like as far as isometric RPGs go, it's the perfect game for a newcommer to the genre. it's not a "casual" game per se, but it's a lot less complex than Pillars. and it's so much fun, it's short and so fun to come back to once in a while. the world is quite unique, as well as your place in it. probably my second favourite RPG ever (behind New Vegas).
Baldur's Gate 1 was my first "Old school" CRPG that I played, and I played it for the first time just last year. I had so much difficulty getting used to it - Some encounters were just absolutely brutal, with swarms of powerful enemies, wizards and all sorts of nasty stuff attacking you at the same time.
But then I realized something - If the game doesn't play fair, you shouldn't play fair either. You have all those same tools that the enemy has, and you can always leave, or rethink an encounter in such a way that you can trivialize it. After I realized that and I started being able to dismantle encounters I really, really started to love the game.
I tried Baldur's Gate 1 for the first time two months ago and I really think it didn't age well enough to recommend it to a newcomer to the genre in 2023.
@@Jolfgard I actually just try the Baldur's Gate 1 today after having played POE2, DOS2, Wasteland 3, Tyranny. I find it really hard to see what's going on lol. As expected, I just drop it like 30 mins in.
The key to games like Baldur's Gate 1 is to get used to the Real Time Pause system. Pausing the game during encounters is a primary game mechanic and is a must. You have to pause frequently during battles to make adjustments, otherwise the chaos gets out of control.
You can try Neverwinter Nights it is 3rd edition dnd and quite similar to Baldur’s Gate but a little newer
Understanding the spell system is crucial in Baldur's Gate I and II. Wizards can instantly zap themselves with heavy protections, but once you learn how to dispell them it gives you a fighting chance. Exactly the same with some monsters having certain immunities. The messages will tell you what's going on.
I played DOS2 for my first real CRPG as well, and I loved it. Now for my second CRPG i'm playing pathfinder : wotr, and I don't really think it's that hard to get into. Usually I'm hopelessly restarting games because I feel i missed some crucial steps, or i leveled my characters wrong. But I didn't do this with pathfinder and am now at the end of my first playthrough. I do have to say though, I am still very glad I followed your advice and started on normal, instead of core. I think this saved me form my usual restarting habit. So thanks again Mort!
Starting with the infinity engine games and KOTOR 1&2 was the best intro for me.
Started my CRPG journey a little over 3 months ago after mass buying a whole load of CRPG classics and the modern mainstays inspired by them.
This all really started because of Disco Elysium and replaying KOTOR. This channel also helped immensely.
Mind sharing a list of the ones you got? Classics and moderns please
Every time Tiranny is mentioned I'm saddened that we won't have a sequel :(
Why wont it ever get one?
Even though opinions on this game are mostly pretty positive it didn't sell well unfortunately, same with Pillars 2.
@@Franz_Kahba would a console port ever be possible? I don’t even see the game on steam from what I can remember
You and me both, friend.
Couldn't agree more. Tyrrany was and is an excellent game. Really wish it could have a sequel, especially as the story ends on a bit of a cliff hanger.
The original baldurs gate games actually had extremely complete explanations of the pertinent rules.
They had them in the physical rulebook that accompanied those releases. I think I lost mine about 4 moves ago :(
Yep, that's why even after a CD got caught in my PC and broke in pieces I still kept the manual from that now unplayable game. I believe the GOG releases come with the original in box manual as a PDF also.
My experience with Baldur's Gate 1 on Normal was miserable in terms of difficulty. One tip I can give to newcomers is to use potions and scrolls. I was conditioned by 99% of the games I played in my life to see those as optional small boosts but in BG1 its crucial. If you don't chances are you'll get obliterated in a lot of encounters.
BG2 was very different for me, I already had a lot of previous knowledge from 1 so I played on Core and it felt amazing.
Or, give everyone who can use them bows. Three people with long/composite bows wreck almost everything, and there's less micromanagement.
I've been gaming for 30+ years, but only on console. Recently got my first gaming PC and are now exploring some genres I've missed out on. Bought Tyranny, PoE 1 and BG1:EE on various sales after watching your videos but they honestly intimidate me to the point that I'm a bit hesitant to even get started, even though I think they all seem very interesting 🫣 Closest I've played was Disco Elysium which I really loved!
I did however manage to (kind of) learn Europa Universalis IV, which at first glance seemed totally impossible, so I guess I just gotta pick one of them and get going!
Same here, but the opposite. I started on computers and PC's, drifted into consoles by accident. The differance is quite drastic, and I love it. Consoles are much more action, NOW NOW NOW based. PCs are more "click everything, weigh up your decicion, we'll get there, its all fine.... " Even getting a gaming controller to work on my PC is an issue, obviously on a console, it just... works! The two areas are slowly merging, but I do think the PC games are dumbed down to meet the console games. You mentioned Europa Unuvsalis - anything from Paradox will always be hard to learn and a very steep curve - but worth it. A very good studio that sucks at tutorials! Try the Total War stuff for... "fun"?!?!? Makes my brain bleed just thinking about it but, its a great series...
DOS2 was my first and boy it opened my eyes - I've always loved character progression & strategy so it was a natural fit. I tend to bounce off of real-time pause games, but turn-based is right up my alley. Pillars felt really difficult and I got stuck while super underleveled in a certain undead area in Deadfire that just killed my motivation to keep playing. Pathfinder feels a lot better, but when I saw the customization and story options available in WOTR I just couldn't keep playing Kingmaker. I hope to pick up WOTR soon & try Wasteland 3 as well - seems like another great fit since I love DOS2 & XCOM. Also, BG3 is going to be absolutely revolutionary since I'm a big D&D fan!
My only major complaint for games like this is that there's SO many build options that I'm paralyzed with choices & the fear of making either a boring or underpowered build - but following a step by step guide takes all the fun out of making those choices for yourself - and these games typically don't make respecs very accessible.
After playing a LOT of crpgs, I can say that often, the talky/charismatic thief-type builds usually give the most interesting openings or ways to solve quests. Strength builds are easy but charisma/int/dex builds lead down more interesting paths
Have you scooped up Pathfinder WOTR yet? It's on a heavy discount on Steam right now. I've started it but damn is it hard to hit enemies 😂
I've been playing rpgs since I was little, and crpgs are starting to become my preferred gaming genre as a whole; with Larian and Obsidian being my two favorite devs in the space. I'd really love to see either of them do some work in the Dragon Age, Star Wars, or Warhammer Fantasy universes.
Thx to you I've tried poe1 as my first crpg since kotor and dragon age origins. I'm finding it a little difficult to learn the mechanics underneath but enjoying it slowly, little bit at a time. Almost done everything in act 1 and I'm excited for the story to get going but enjoying the world building. I think I lean more to action rpgs but happy to have a new genre
Pretty much an exact match for my own progression into the genre.
Honestly im a huge CRPG fan and even I didnt finish that game. Dont get me wrong its not bad but I think there are many better ones out there. For example the Divinity Original Sin games or Wasteland 3 or even the two Pathfinder games. Dont get discouraged if u get bored of this one as there are many better ones in the genre you have to look forward to!
@@vuky258_ Ah see now I personally loved pillars. One of my favourites. Really loved the world building and overall tone. But yeah, I can definitely appreciate why it rubs some people the wrong way.
@@vuky258_ Yea I understand, I have div 1 waiting in case I get bored of this. I'm just playing an hour at a time so I don't get over whelmed. Right now I'd only rate it a 6 or 7 out of 10 but I'm in act one and happy to see it evolve but I understand why people wouldn't finish it. I'm also wanting to play it for the lore before Avowed releases
My very first was Neverwinter Nights 2! Everything else just snowballed from there (fallout, baldur’s gate, kotor, vampire the masquerade, dragon age, wasteland, and so on) But I would definetly recommend Pathfinder: WotR for a more modern flare, if anyone asked me ☺️
I tried play pathfinder WoTR for my first CRPG and it was pretty hard to get in to, because you said divinity was a good start I got it and it was on sale so I am hoping to become a fan of CRPGs hoping divinity original sin 2 will help me get into them. I really like pathfinder but it was so systems heave I felt way lost. Really good video, I've watched a lot of your reviews and you definitely are one of the best reviewers out there!
I found Divinity more friendly with the rules. I hope you enjoy
IMO Solasta is the best beginner crpg out there, if only for it's simplicity. You manage only 4 characters all of which you build yourself from the start. The main campaign is linear with sidequests, a good formula in that it shows the player they are on the right path. It has less "system overload" than other games as well, even the crafting system is nice and clear. The way it presents information is done in a clear, fresh way that I appreciate. Lastly, there are no side management things, its basically a straight up dungeon crawler. After seeing 5e done well in a game I'm excited to play BG3 as my next step!
Wasteland 3 was the first crpg that I played and I absolutely loved it. It is still probably my favourite.
Currently playing Divinity: OS2 and I am enjoying so far.
Really looking forward to W40K: Rogue Trader more than anything in the genre.
Not sure if there has been tons of changes but D:OS2 was pretty brutal when it first came out, at least for me. There were some fights that I had to keep saving and reloading in order to beat.
Same, maybe my build suck but still...
Good video as per usual! It's funny that I've been playing CRPGs for about 3 years now consistently, but have only have played Wasteland 3 on this list haha. Shadowrun Dragonfall and Hong Kong are also great beginner-friendly CRPGs for anyone who wants to get into the genre.
The Pre Fallout Wasteland game was such a fun game!
Solasta was a fun basic 5E system game with mostly custom stuff!
Baldurs Gate 1 & 2 are so much fun!
Planescape Torment is the best of the Baldurs Gate Game system games, imho!
I've just finished DOS2, and it was a great experience, but boy oh boy, the last area was brutal. The game got super hard, and I struggled a lot. As a guy who always heard about DOS2 the last area was a bit of a bummer. I ended up enjoying Wasteland 3 more.
Planescape should have gotten an honorable mention. It has an enhanced version out and it's story is all time top shelf.
I'd love a TRPGs for beginners video. I'm currently terrible at them, and they seem so daunting.
On that note, I love when you mention difficulty levels and settings in your videos. Useful!
I would recommend Warhammer 40K: Mechanicus. It's pretty simple and easy to learn. Also the soundtrack and all other soundeffects are insanely well done.
I started with XCOM2 as my first, and i dropped it because it was too hard for me at the time. But Mechanicus was easy to get in to for me, the tutorials are pretty good. And I feel it's way less punishing than XCOM2.
Dragon Age: Origins (cinematic) & Shadowrun Returns (short & simple) are 2 of the games I will always recommend to newcomers that want to get into the genre. After that, they are free to explore whichever game they find interesting in the space.
These 2 games also introduce people to the 2 types of combat systems typically found in these games, real-time with pause (DA:O) & turn-based (Shadowrun). Plus, I think their combat gameplay isn't as confusing or overwhelming to get into for newcomers that want to just pick 1 and jump right in.
Would love to see a video along the lines of “The 5 studios I’m most interested in finding out what their next game is” with some speculation sprinkled in. Thanks for the consistently great content!
Great video and great games all of them. I would strongly recommend Pillars 2 to "beginners" looking to get into (isometric) CRpg genre. Great game that holds a great balance between easy(ier) and a difficult challenge in my opinion, not to mention the world build and the lore which is quite interesting..
I've been trying to get into CRPGs for some time now. The first one that really clicked with me was Wasteland 3. Enjoyed it a lot and plan on giving Divonity Original Sin 1&2 a second try.
I actually started with Pathfinder Kingmaker, so this makes me feel a lot better about most of these games!
What a time to be a CRPG gamer. The only downside is that I've already played/tried most of these (and have re-played a handful of them too).
Can't wait for new stuff to come out later this year!
I played Solasta following Mortym's suggestion... And I love it! It's a good game for a CRPG noob like myself, no doubt about it. Excellent video!
I'd probably swap D:OS2 and Solasta's spots in this list; the dual armor system and damage type splits along with elemental reactions must be understood to make effective builds in D:OS2, while the 5e core ruleset Solasta is built on is so simplified that it's hard to go wrong with. Always great to see your crpg videos.
I recently assembled my first gaming PC (console gamer all my life) and I watch your videos to get up to speed with PC games. More success to you!
I'ma a beginner and have started my journey with Wrath of the Righteous. I'm thoroughly enjoying it, tho there are occasions where i feel so overwhelmed
This was a very insightful video! Thanks for making this, definitely going to try out a couple of these games :D
I started playing Wrath of the Righteous. I'm not familiar with DnD and tabletop RPGs, by the way.
Even though, yes, Pathfinder games really are mechanically overwhelming, I find myself deeply immersed in my WotR playthrough. It's the first CRPG that I play properly (as opposed to just messing around for an hour before uninstalling), and I'm having a blast so far!
The only thing stopping me from diving into Pillars of Eternity and Bladur's Gate is that I'm intimidated my 'Real Time with pause' system. I played bg1 for a while and was overwhelmed.
P.S. - Though poe2 has turn based option, they were some people who opposed it saying 'its not how the game was intended to be played' so I was taken aback by that.
For me, turn based combat is a total turn off. Persona 4 and XCOM EW have been the only turn based RPGs I've actually been able to play and have fun with.
I really like Pillars of Eternity 2's turn based combat and the story.
You should try out Fear & Hunger and especially the new sequel, Termina. They're RPG Maker games, but they're both pretty different than your standard RPG Maker games. While there is an element of RNG to the gameplay, most of the game is actually beaten by knowing what to do. While the game is very punishing with it's save system, you'll get better as you learn from your losses. Dying can be frustrating, but once you learn that frustration turns into a sense of triumph. The exciting gameplay is just one great aspect of the game, as the grimdark setting and deep lore are really well done. The sequel is seriously one of my new favorite games of all time. It improves on some of the shortcomings of the original and it offers so much more variety with the extra skills you can learn and the plethora of unique characters you can play as. The subject matter is quite dark in places and you'd have to do some censoring of certain enemies if you were to use footage of them in a video. It's worth it though as there's really nothing else like it out there.
Still loving your well-thought out, well-executed deconstructions/reviews/recommendations. Keep on doing what you're doing, sir.
The tactics mechanics of DA:O was the best game feature of the DA series.... target and action priorities plus combos and less micromanagement made it 10/10
yea, I was a little disappointed as they drifted away from these mechanices, DA:O is one of my all time favorites and the only entry in the franchise that got me interested in the universe.
For over a decade I’ve always thought that C in CRPG stood for “CLICK” as in you click where you want to move. Click to interact etc. I guess I was my guess wasn’t too far off the mark considering how many CRPG rely on using mouse clicks.
Love solasta and DOS2, being able to play a crpg in co-op is just next level fun.
I would say that the Pillars of Eternity series are my favorite so far. I love CRPG games and I think the Divinity series is also top notch but somehow I can't bring myself to finish either game more than once. While I've finished POE Dreadfire 4 times.
Massive shout out for Planescape: Torment. Probably the best philosophical crpg of all time.
I love this video, you give a very nice breakdown of the different varieties of CRPGs and most of these are definitely worth playing if you have some spare time. I would definitely recommend either of the Original Sin games to anyone looking to dip their toes into this kind of game, it's newbie-friendly enough for most people, and good looking enough to please most gamers.
Bit late but thanks for the video I loved it
I got into the genre through baldurs gate 3 and was worried I'd be kind of spoiled for others. But I'm playing Pillars of Eternity now and I'm loving it. Excellent story and world building. Thanks again
I would say that Pillars 2 is fantastic for beginners. The system is not very complicated. It has a great encyclopedia and you you can hover your mouse over every keyword in the game to get an explanation of what they mean.
It's my favorite CRPG ever but not sure if it's good for beginners, it's pretty complicated with the multiclass system. Also the story can be confusing if you haven't played Pillars 1 (they shouldn't have made it a direct sequel IMO). Still a beginner could always look up the POE1 story and then also avoid multiclassing too much (or just play on easier difficulty so it doesn't matter).
Fallout 1 and 2. If I was able to figure out how to play them as a kid with only a rudimentary knowledge of english language, everybody can, and it's a great start to CRPGs, because the rules are simple, everything is explained and the story is great. Honestly even today after playing modern games with lots of quality of life upgrades I can't really complain about anything in those two games.
This makes me want to replay Kotor. . .I got to the last mission in the game, but encountered a game-breaking bug that locked me in a room, so I never actually finished it. That was one of the first good RPG games I played growing up.
Just recently stumbled across your channel (BG3 hype...), really great content you have going on! Kudos on this video in particular, and I'd just like to second the recommendation for "Tyranny" in particular. Great game that often gets overlooked - compelling story, interesting characters and a lot of meaningful choices. And personall I also appreciate that it's not too long, probably around 20 hours for a fresh playthrough. Very nice package!
Giving CRPGs a shot. Bought DOS1. Almost done with act 1 with 40 hours in lol. It's a nice change from all the open world games I'm used to.
I'm a huge RPG gamer, but I never got into the CRPG genre, so this video is exactly what I think I need! 🙌🏼
Edit: Did not expect DA Origins to be on this list. I played this when it came out and it blew me away. Think I've finished it 3 times in total since.
I started out with the original Fallout games, loved them to bits! So the isometric perspective will always be dear to me. More recently I played Pillars of Eternity and Wasteland 3, two quite different experiences. I have the older Baldur's Gate games as well as Planetscape Torment and Icewind Dales in my library but haven't touched them yet. Also got Encased and the Divinity games, but likewise have not touched them! Time is of the essence, and I do play other style games too, currently I'm (literally) submerged in SubNautica and loving it.
What do people think of the Shadowrun series? Wouldn't they classify as CRPGs?
I don't know why but I was really excited to play Original Sin 2. But the more I played it the more tedious the game felt and by the end of it I actually had to force my self to finish it. I positively hated it. Maybe it was my build, maybe it was the very weak final act. I know they did something with the final parts of the game to make it better and I do feel like playing it again sometimes but it just feels a bit daunting when I seriously consider playing it again.
At launch the last act was really bad yeah
I had to edit this because I forgot the most important part: This list and your channel are both great! Its obvious you have a passion for this very special and often underappreciated genre. So, thank you very much for doing videos like these. And now, on to my comment 😀
I am surprised that Planescape: Torment did not end up on your list. [Side note: this explanation is for the other commenters. I would not insult you by implying you did not already know exactly what this game is] Just your intro area of the game (Mortuary) is so chocked full interesting conversation, little morality choices, and puzzles it is mind blowing. It is easy to get into, nothing feels forced and it is in many ways quite forgiving because death is not meant to be punishing. With so much to explore both physically and psychologically I would put it in the top crpgs of all time. It has even been remastered so it runs perfectly on modern hardware. It's so good IMO that its hard to pick the best things about it but if I had to I would say its the fact that encourages you to try ANYTHING and it is designed to make you think about what you believe and why with rewards for have in depth discussions even with your party members that make a huge impact on the game.
I love the story of planescape, but the actual gameplay of that game is...not fun.
@@MortismalGaming LOL well that is certainly a good reason it is not on the list. I obviously enjoyed it myself but to each their own 😀
Really appreciate these videos thank you. With my steam deck and PC I’m eager to try CRPGs - they’re the most appealing RPGs to me outside of JRPGs
If anyone is curious, back then CRPG was used to differentiate from what RPGs originally meant (tabletop games like D&D and GURPS) and those made in a computer, hence the C.
Nowadays, you can find that the usage of CRPGs in gaming spaces is that it shares the same game design and concepts of these older CRPGs, like Wizardry, Gold Box Games, Baldur's Gate, Fallout. Which is definitely evident in games like Pillars, WOTR, DOS:2, etc. I think it's the most general and safe description of what a CRPG (currently) is without causing too much disagreements imo
That looks right up my alley, keen to hear more as it develops!
Something that is not said outright here about Baldur's gate : it's from a time before tutorials, so don't expect to understand the game without reading guides or the manual (which is partly narrated by Elminster and Volo, so it's not just dry rules all the way and worth reading anyway) - unless they added a tutorial in the enhanced edition which I never tried.
Same with Arcanum which has the best manual ever (to my knowledge)
Morti you should do an audiobook or a podcast, you have such a great voice.
I really struggle to read a script and sound anything but a robot but I appreciate the thought!
I'm not new to the genre, but I really enjoyed this subject.
I think I agree with you, nearly game for game.
PoE is a very tough introduction to cRPGs, and I don't think anyone should play the second without the first (I think it kinda ruins it, you might discover it in game - but the story is somewhat, um, complicated?). But, it is worth it - and almost makes the Infinity Engine games look easier...
I come from a very long, extensive tabletop gaming background - and I grew up with both AD&D 1e and the Gold Box games from SSI. So, in a way, Baldur's Gate came naturally - but PoE made me earn my knowledge...
The Pathfinder games are very tough, but they are the tempting point of entry - they are beautiful, AA titles. After years of gaming this style of by the book RPG - they kicked my ass, repeatedly. I do tend to build niche characters and play on hard levels, but... at least it tells you more than PoE does, LOL?
I think for ease of use in Sci-Fi that the Shadowrun games are pretty friendly. The graphics are not stellar, but they are used well. They tend to be somewhat, or entirely, cut and dried - but it is a good turn based introduction for anyone.
I don't tend to recommend real-time with pause combat to anyone younger than me unless they play ttRPGs or know the genre.
Sorry for babbling - thanks for this video, it was a great introduction to your channel for those who don't know it (I've been following along for a few years, I think you were one of my first real subscriptions...)
I’ve never really understood the emphasis on which system (dnd, advanced dnd, whatever it may be) a game uses. I’ve never noticed it effect how I play or what I really do. Care to explain what I’m missing?
My first CRPG was.... wait for it.... Wizardry 1, from 1984. I was 17 and it was the best darn game you could play on an Apple 2+. Me and my buddies did an all nighter to finish it. After a bunch of pretty crappy games in the 90s, including subsequent Wizardry games, then came BG1, and a new era was born. Since then, I've played many on your list, and the one that I always think about - the characters, the music, the story - is Planescape Torment. It's like a book I've read over and over. One thing you may want to mention to new players of the older games is that there are tons of playthrough guides on the interwebs that for many games, make it both easier and in some case, the only way I could finish the games. Because BG titles were so story heavy, the playthrough don't take away too much from the experience. I wouldn't use them on my first go, unless stuck, but they were great on the second run. Shout out to Icewind Dale, as well.
Although ihey're older I'd also recommend both Icewind Dale games. They're more combat orientated and have little to no focus on the characters, as you create your own team. Also, the 2nd game uses 3rd Edition, which is a little more forgiving than 2nd Edition. Also 3.5e was improved and used for Neverwinter Nights 2 (possibly Neverwinter Nights but that maybe 3.0).
And Dragon Age: Orgins is one of the greatest RPGs ever made.
Oh and another 3rd Person non-isometric game I'd recommend for beginners is The Outer Worlds. It's light on systems but has the choice options that a lot of modern cRPGs lack. It's also not especially difficult.
Mortym, have you played Atom RPG: Trudograd? I know it's an expansion but it's also a stand alone. I was curious whether anything was improved with this over the original?
Yeah I reviewed it
@@MortismalGaming Cheers Mort. I'll try and take a look.
POE2 was my first CRPG, such a great game!
Edit: Oh and the Table Top rules come with POE2 when you buy it, they put it in the game files, haven't played with them but thought it was a cool.
Yeah Josh Sawyer was working on expanding them and potentially publishing them though
I’m a console guy so crpgs have always been hard for me to get into. Thanks a lot. You’re a great youtuber Mort :)
Would ever consider fallout 1 and 2 games to review?
He’s already reviewed those games, not 100% since they don’t have achievements but he has reviewed them like a year back.
I know no video is going to include every possible game, but I'm surprised you didn't mention the Shadowrun games!
Honestly agree! The games are relatively short and are easy to get into in terms of mechanics and visuals! I think it's more of a setting thing because there are no other CRPGs that tackle urban fantasy, so people (like me lol) may crave that when looking for other games in the genre
Look at his old videos, there's a extensive videos about every RPG you can think of
I came to the comments to say the same thing!! They are fantastic and great for beginners. It's where i started.
Yeah, Dragonfall is a great place to start.
I really like shadowrun but I don't think they're a great place to start as they aren't a representation of what to expect from most crpgs personally
I'm currently working through a playthrough of Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous, I've previously played Pillars of Eternity and Dragon Age Origins, and in my opinion, Pillars of Eternity is the best place to start with Isometric CRPGs, primarily because of its depth in combat. Comparing it to Wrath of Righteous is almost not even fair. In WotR, combat is mostly just auto-attacking and the actual strategy comes from buffing your party and debuffing enemies and your build choices. PoE's character builds have less depth but the combat is so much more deep, one of my favorite examples is that to flank someone in WotR, you just need to have two party members in melee with an enemy. In PoE, you actually need to have one of your two or more characters behind the enemy to get a flank. PoE also gives the player a variety of abilities they can use on each party member with cooldowns you need to manage, this system is entirely absent from WotR. In general, the purpose of me writing all of this is to show that there's actually a lot of variety to be had in CRPGs and that if one of them isn't to your taste, that doesn't mean that others won't be. Give several of them a try!
i'm very into JRPGs but i tried out Pillars of Eternity and now i am obsessed with CRPGs and my bank account is glaring at me because i bought several of them
Very helpful videos. I am mostly new to the genre, played Dragon Age: Inquisition and a few tabletops briefly, and I want to get into BG3. Seems like PoE II and Shadowrun Returns, based on your other video, are ones for me to try. Thanks so much!
Original sin 2 was the first CRPG I really got into and the reason I really like the genre now.
Funnily enough I also vastly prefer RTWP over turn-based combat.
Same for me. Got 700+ hrs in it by now. Together with a friend I've, since discovering Dos2, also played multiple playthroughs of Divinity original sin 1 and Solasta.
Wasteland 3, even though it's a great game, only lasted one coop playthrough with us. While in Dos2 your initiative determines the order of characters turns, in Wasteland 3 player one always has all his characters go first and so often there isn't much left to do for player two. The wait between players is longer this way too.
@@Tekel-Upharsin Absolutely love Dos2 myself! 😊
Still find new little things after over 700 hrs, like the dialog with the female dwarf in Driftwood, that you get the thievery +2 gloves from. She wants to know about Butter from Fort Joy.
All these little connected threads weave a great immersive world and the magic system is so rewarding of experimentation. Just like the crafting.
Perfect game.
While I loved DOS2, I thought it was quite hard to become competent at. I admit to mostly surviving my way through the game. Solasta is an excellent game to learn CRPG's on though. Cheers
Great list
I have played Wasteland 3, both Pathfinders, Divinity 2, Solasta, pillar of eternity, Baldurs gate,...
Your tastes are so similar to mine that i´m gonna buy the Atom RPG.
Biggest issue I have with Crpgs are many of them are anti grind to the point no monsters respawn and there is no way to gain more loot/exp if you so wish. I also like going back to old areas and seeing how much my party has improved.
Haven't thought about KOTOR in several years... Installing now on my sidekick rig, for when the games on my main rig get tedious ;-) Thanks for the bump!
So in my opinion, I actually think something like Shadowrun Dragonfall is the best place to start for a beginner. For two reasons. One, it doesn't overload the player with complicated systems and is very easy to learn. But two, which I think is something you have completely overlooked and that is voice acting. So if you tell a beginner to start off with games like Divinity Original Sin 2 or Wasteland 3, it's more likely they'll never end up playing a cRPG that doesn't have full voice acting. Not to say that every single one won't, but most will not. Shadowrun Dragonfall is an excellent starting choice because not only is the writing fantastic but it's also very succinct. It's not super wordy like most other cRPGs without voice acting. So it's the perfect game to ease a beginner into the genre without turning them off completely from games that don't have voice acting.
I never noticed that I played that many CRPGs till I watched this video.
Out of this video I have finished the following.
Pathfinder WOTR
Pathfinder kingmaker
Wasteland 3
Divinity Original sin 1 and 2
Tyranny
Pillars of eternity 1 and 2
Dragon age origin
And you forgot to mention Neverwinter nights 2.
I am looking forward the most for Baldur gates 3 to be released, and of course Rogue trader,
Since my favourite crpg so far is WOTR.
I'm trying to play crpgs in the order of their release date. It'll be interesting to see the evolution of crpgs.
I'm on the character creation screen for BG1. I should finish my character by 2025. Reroll reroll reroll. Pretty sure I can roll a natural 100.
Goes up to 118, but anything 93 and above will get you optimal stats for any class
I think something like pathfinder can definitely get someone unfamiliar with the genre into it, just the sheer depth and amount the game has to offer in the character creation alone will make a lot of players stick with it regardless and learn those systems.
I have rediscovered CRPGs again thanks to the Steam Deck. Can't wait to delve into Pathfinder after I finish DOS2.
Wasteland 3 is in my top 3! Love that game!
One game that seems to be passed over, perhaps of its genre is "Battletech" by Harebrained Software. It easily qualifies as a CRPG, because you have character development and quirks that cause little events as time goes by and you travel the galaxy.
You run your own mercenary outfit that runs around in battle robots (mods add vehicles, VTOLs and even small battlesuits), and I also found the included main campaign that includes a full plot and voiceovers to be rather engaging.
It also has fantastic mods that make the game more complex, and it has a sandbox mode.
I just got back into computer gaming after 2 decades off. Picking up Wasteland 2 + 3 after 20 years (I played the original Wasteland on MS/DOS) felt like coming home.
I started with BG2, when i was like 10.
Didnt get a thing but was intrigued af.
Then tried again with lie 14 and liked it even more and fooled around a bit.
With sixteen i finished my first pt of it and payed all the known crpgs that are around from ten on. ❤
Get your spouse or significant other to play with you!
Divinity Original Sin 2, Solasta and Wasteland all have exceptional fully implemented Co-op systems. The experience of these games is enriched playing with people.
My girlfriend (who was not a gamer) was not thrilled at first giving DoS 2 a go but after a couple hours in she was sold on this genre to where we mostly replaced our evening leisure time of television into a more compelling experience.
What I mean is, I can’t take this woman to town without her causing problems. Getting swindled out of her pants in a card game, breaking her out of jail, tavern brawls, or getting abducted at the brothel in a compromised position. It’s important to always have something to do!
These games are all about the experience and agency to the player. Winning for us comes down to our often ridiculous party compositions and surviving my girlfriends questionable decision making skills.
Oh and the writing and voice acting in these games often puts triple A film to shame who have a larger marketing budget than many of these studios have budgets to build their product.
Mortismal, you are the best. 💖
While not a CRPG but a turn based game with talent trees for your soldiers and different classes, weapons and loadouts I highly recommend XCom2 (if you dont know the game look up Marbozir), it also has tons of mods to download.
And for me DoS1:EE is much better than DoS2, but thats of course subjective. I just enjoy the whole combat much more in DoS1.
Dragon Age Origins was technically my first crpg ever. I played it on xbox 360 before I even knew what a crpg was. Definitely one of the games of all time.
Hello man, do you Write or script everything u say in your videos ? or just freestyle ?
I make bullet points, like this was divided by category with the games listed that I wanted to talk about. I really hate reading a script verbatim.
@@MortismalGaming thanks for the answer, I'm a bit like you but on the French side 😁 and I Find what you do Really inspiring for my content.
The quality / quantity you have on Ur Channel IS just Amazing.
Thats why I was asking how you make your script.
Hooooooly crap! Thank you for the suggestion on Solasta
Never on my radar, probably never would have tried without your glowing recommendation
Not even through the first mission and I like it a LOT more than Pathfinder WOTR
Thank you!!
About BG1 difficulty : I noticed, watching streams, that players who do not optimize the AC of their "tank" or do not properly make sure enemies attack only their "tank", get their asses kicked in pretty badly. So BG1 is rather deadly for less cautious or less tactical players. Mind you, the same is true for POE 1 & 2 : hard fights are won easily if you manage your party correctly and if enemies attack your "tank", but they can be super hard for players who don't take the time to micro-manage movement and their stats.
For fun, I used Jaheira as my tank in BG1 & 2. Druid/Fighters can use any armor and shields (strangely enough considering all the restrictions imposed on other multiclasses!). In BG2, she was often transformed into a mustard jelly when tanking magical creatures and dragons.
While I've known about CRPG's for a very long time I didn't truly start playing them until 2017 with the Demo Of Divinity Original Sin 1 then later I got Divinity Original Sin 2 played it fell in love with it
Now Baldur’s Gate 3 has truly awoken my love for CRPG's whereas The Divinity Original Sin duology planted the seeds and is the foundation that got me into CRPG'S to begin with
For me The Divinity Original Sin duology is the "Grandfather's" of the genre for me personally
I know others would probably say for them it's Baldirs Gate 1 or 2 maybe Icewind Dale or Planescape Torment
Not me, who can't get into Divinity OS II even though the world interests me very much, looking at this video and thinking "oh yeah, maybe I should watch to see if there's something more entry-level first" lmao