Honestly, you hit the nail on the head. You already how I feel about MBTL. I've been in the training room practicing air dashing & finding inputs that work well together to see if I can create a combo with. I think its great to have easy accessible options in the beginning because it gives new players a goal to work toward if they decide to purse the game in a serious manner.
Hard combos don't mean cool-looking, and easy combos don't mean boring-looking. Most people like combos because they're flashy and look awesome, not because "they're 1F link combos". Many times you can get long combos in a FG without them being hard to perform. "Player expression" isn't only about combos, it's about EVERYTHING the player does and execution is only a part of that package.
I think the way to go is give alot of options. Alot of easy combos that look cool for people who are newer and for people that want to flex or completely optimize combos give a good bit of harder combo options as well. Personally i can enjoy any fighting game aslong as it has options and doesnt feel like its trying to limit you excessively.
"Are easy inputs okay in fighting games?" Anything is okay to have in fighting games. It's a game. A more targeted question would involve the player. For example, "Do easy inputs make fighting games more/less fun?" That's a question you can reasonably think about. The answer is "maybe." It depends on the types of players you're trying to get to play the game. If you want money, then target the biggest possible array of players. This would involve small barrier of entry, and high skill ceiling, and good netcode, and good general aesthetic. I think Guilty Gear Strive does this pretty well, which is why it's so popular. There are more things that certain players care about, like single player content, but these four are the biggest and most important things that the vast majority of players would consider "good." Specifically talking about easy inputs... what types of players does this draw in, and what types of players does it push away? Everything else staying the same, if you remove complex inputs and replace them with easy inputs, that automatically lowers both the barrier of entry and the skill ceiling. In other words, you will GAIN the players that need the easy inputs in order to have fun, and you will LOSE the players that need the complex inputs in order to have fun. Depending on the circumstances, one of those pools of people will be bigger. If a selling point of a game is its difficulty, then you probably shouldn't simplify inputs, since your target audience is specifically all those people who like difficulty. If a selling point of a game is how easy it is, you probably should try to make the inputs as easy as possible. But, in either case, IN GENERAL, your maximum audience size involves having both. Street Fighter IV honestly does a good job of this, having both easy and difficult combos that accommodate everybody, with the exception of a handful of characters that can't reasonably function without doing difficult link combos. Another example is Killer Instinct (2013), which has a very easy combo system where you just press buttons with no timing, or a very difficult combo system that requires you to press buttons with very precise timing. The former is easier to perform and easier to counter as the opponent, and the latter is harder to perform but basically impossible for the opponent to counter on reaction. And you can't just focus on the extremes. More people play fighting games than noobs and Daigos. The game won't be popular if you ONLY have the easy combos and the hard combos. You need things in between, so that the player can choose to do the hardest combos that they are confident in doing during matches. And inputs aren't the only execution barrier fighting games can have. If anything, the inputs in Street Fighter IV are too easy, giving you DPs when you just wanted to do a crouching jab. What makes certain combos in that game hard is the timing of link combos, which are unbuffered and necessary for every character. Compare that to KoF XIII, which has very long input windows to perform juggles with special moves if you hold the button down, but the motions are often very complex and need to be performed rapidly. The EX Iori infinite requires four quarter circles per rep, and each rep is like half a second long. The timing isn't strict, but you need to be able to do four quarter circles fast enough. The key takeaway from this discussion is it's not as simple as "yes, make inputs easier" or "no, don't make inputs easier." And yet most people seem to take one of those two extremes, because doing so doesn't require any in-depth thought.
I think it depends on the type of game you are designing as well. Games like SFIV are heavily balanced around 1 frame links and inputs. The systems at play in SF are fairly simple, characters don't have any real wild shit that they do. Because the power level of the game itself is low, to add depth to it they make the mechanical side harder. Compare that to something like +r, where the character power level is just insane, and you've got a bunch of different systems in the background and specials everywhere, execution becomes a secondary focus. The game would not lose much by losing the motion inputs. Additionally, DNF proves you can balance moves around simple inputs. A shoryuken input serves as a way to prevent people from DP'ing you in every combo, as it forces you to let go of block to get it out. If that was just a down-forward button press, in order to balance it you'd have to make the blockstun frames last longer or start-up frames for the attack longer.
I think if your a fighting gamer it's extremely silly to write a game off just cause of it's Inputs. I feel like mechanics are much more important then inputs
I dont think the thing people should complain about is games having simple/easy inputs. I get people dont like every game bieng like that. But the inputs bieng easy isnt whats giving you less options and combos. The issue is taking away options and limiting what you can do with the tools you have. As someone who does really enjoy combos i dont mind short combos at all if you have a good amount of combo options like To me strive is not a easy input game but it is simplified in a different way that makes me just find the game pretty boring.
I don't think necessarily. There have been plenty of times in video games in general where I imagine to do something extremely hard, and the only emotion I feel is relief. If you don't find the challenge interesting or exciting, then you won't feel accomplished, because the execution was just A chore for you to do.
I think we could reframe this discussion via skill floor and skill ceiling. Those advocating for accessibility want a low skill floor. Those who want a top tier competitive game NEED a high skill ceiling. You can NEVER lower the skill floor at the cost of the skill ceiling in a competitive game, or you harm the game. It's that simple. If it doesn't lower the skill ceiling? Perfect, no one cares at the top end. The other thing that is necessary for "personal expression" at the top end is a broad number of actions someone could take at any time.
I think the I issue is legacy. The fighting games that are being changed are old. It would be wrong to a lot of people to change something that loved. More people are open to brand new ip doing this stuff since it has no nostalgic aspect or recognition.
this!!! i dont wanna see street fighter reduced to the way the phone port of sf4 was.. i wanted to play sf4 on my phone on the go but couldnt cuz i did feel i had the control i wanted. i get sf6 will have both inputs, n as a vet i wont touch the modern.. but games like KoF VX where the auto combo cant be turned off im sorta on the fence.. accidently going into auto combo doesnt sound attractive to me
This is a topic I actually care about immensely. I'm a HUGE fighting game fan despite not having many FG experiences under my belt. FG's are niche specifically because the barrier of entry typically is too high. Tekken has to be the easiest example I can think of. It has everything you could want in terms of very unique looking characters with very unique styles of play and moves in general look explosive and flashy. However the execution level for inputs is very demanding for even something as "basic" for neutral which would be the Korean back dash. Then you add the absolutely massive list of moves each character has and it just gets overwhelming. There is a charm to have higher execution demand for some characters and I think GG Strive has a fair balance of this in that the main roster is pretty accessible from an input perspective but some of the dlc characters are more input demanding. But yes, simpler inputs does not equate to less of a skill ceiling. Player expression IMO shouldn't be rested heavily on what inputs the character has access to but what they can do with said inputs. Meaning the game's base systems and mechanics can and should be carrying that weight. But there's totally room for some character specific mechanics as well (usually involves a micro game of managing a resource or something.) But I digress, I want more people to like fighting games and play fighting games. For that to happen they need to be more accessible and they need to look fucking crazy. Type Lumina is very good with the former but drops off a bit in the latter outside of extended combos so it's understandable that people look at TL and call it boring/bland looking. But games like DBFZ, GG strive, and DNF duel I think are doing a great job of nailing both of those aspects. So we need more games like them.
Hot take. The barrier to entry for fighting games isn’t really more (or much more) than other more popular competitive games like CS;GO or League of Legends. I think the big difference is two things. The first is the perceived skill barrier (fighting games have a reputation for being hard) and the small size of the community (I can’t play GG+R without fighting someone who has been playing the game for ten years). League of Legends has such a large community that match making can pair you with other new players but many (most) fighting games cannot.
@@ezraho8449 I'll have to take you at your word for those games as I have little to no experience with them. Closest I have to League is Smite but I'd hardly say they're a fair comparison. Not that i'm disagreeing with your assertion but what I meant by "barrier of entry" in my statement is more on learning actual inputs and some of it being how much legacy knowledge benefits a player. If that's what you thought I was referring to then my bad for over clarifying.
@@mongrelshadow14 I’d argue that learning the inputs is the easy part of fighting games. Most characters in most you can master that stuff over the course of a couple of hours. The hard part is everything afterwards. But I digress.
@@ezraho8449 I mean yeah putting all the moving parts together is definitely harder in most cases. But idk games like Tekken are difficult from an input perspective for me. I have a much easier time with inputs on anime fighting games.
Good points. Depth does not equal complexity, a lot of fighting games complexity is gone nowadays. Simple reason, not enough money in making things hardcore. I may be in the minority, but when I can see everything easy to do in a fighting game I lose interest, even when I'm winning.
I don't think your in the minority of wanting fighting games to have some depth to strive for. As I stated in the video, ideal game balance would be to have levels of "accessibility" while also rewarding your more hardcore audience with depth to strive for to keep the interest of these players as well. If the newer players love the game enough they will eventually purse the next level of the game as they want to do "cool shit" as well.
Honestly I want more fighting games to step outside the box and stop thinking so traditionally. The best fighting game I ever played that mixed tradition with new style was clash of ninja. In the game its almost like tekken in movement and fighting. But it's also an anime arena fighter with its combat simplicity. Thay being said you had different routes for each character that required certain buttons and directions be pushed at specific times. Instead of focusing on the way the stick moved for execution, it put more focus on timing as execution. It also provided more and more mechanics for combo extenders and performers as well as move in options as the game made newer titles. This made it have the lowest barrier of entry known to man cause anyone can literally pick it up and play. But to actually compete you had to learn your character and other character playstyles to fight and bait them effectively. Made the matches feel great when you watch people play a certain way around other characters while also still being rewarding. Unfortunately clash is the only game of its kind with no game ever being similarly created. So if your like me and got used to it's style of combat being super beginner friendly while also having depth, just sucks to be you. Honestly wish more games tried what eighting did with clash. It would probably work for them, clash still has a cult following of people that love it to this day. It's considered to be the first original anime fighter to stand out before fighterz but bandai was dumb and released it alongside another naruto game at the same time on the more renowned consoles of playstation and Xbox. While this technical fighter was on gamecube and wii.... so yeah there will probably never be another game like it ever created, bit I would be the first to hope on it if it was, don't care what it is as long as the fighting and technicality is the same that's all that matters.
THIS 1000%. If anything this new wave of accessible fighting games can go on for some years and get people interested, and then slowly start dialing the crazy back up to the point where there is a healthy in-between for veterans and newcomers to the genre. Good fucking video, Daiken!
As long as the engine is "loose" enough you can see the variety if I can get a 30% combo in 5 different ways I can just choose my fav way to get it thus giving me my individuality
If you want to keep combos, I think player feedback systems need to be improved. Did this drop because it's impossible or because it needed different timing?
People are wrong, easy inputs are not the enemy, the real enemy are forced auto combos, auto combos actually make games worse. Now an optional auto combo is fine, like you can mash A in under night and get an unoptimal combo and that's fine for beginners but when they get intrusive like in type lumina it can greatly kill the game feel. Also I feel like a lot of people dismiss motion inputs as just an execution barrier to gate keep people completely ignoring the fact that there are people that find doing them fun, like bro I don't want to gate keep you, I just wanna have fun with the game
Fun. Balancing moves. Allowing more moves on a character despite the limited amount of buttons. There's plenty of reasons Inputs exist and why you can't just take a game and rip them out. You have to build the game around the easy inputs and rebalance types of moves so you don't have crap like SSF4 3DS Guile that can Sonic Boom at the press of a button.
You know I'm against simple input stuff but I deal with it. But honestly just give me one more technical blazblue and the devs can go on for the next 10 years making simple input fighters lol.
Like, imagine you're a casual player and only play when your buddy comes over. Wouldn't it be great to retain that knowledge as time goes on, so you both can still do amazing things even though you only play once a week? I know that sounds horrible to some hardcore ppl. But what I see in things like BBCF, people are not playing against an opponent, they're playing against the combo system. Shield and parry forever!
Directional Inputs is absolutely garbage. There’s a satisfying feeling you get from executing Motion Inputs at the right time and situation in a match. I totally get NO SATISFACTION from Directional Inputs like games like Power Rangers. The whole essence & heart of 2D Fighting Games to me is the Motion Inputs being executed at the right time & situation. Now I can understand there are some inputs that are too ridiculous to be having. But I see nothing wrong with quarter circles, half circles & even one that are quarter circles back or front then half circle front or back. Like how you would execute Supers in KOF XV. Some of you guys want everything easy. What satisfaction do you get from accomplishing something easy. Adversity creates character in a person. But if you like being held all the time, than good luck making it in life. Anyway, games are supposed to have a challenge. Motion Inputs in 2D Fighting Games is part of the Challenge. You learn how to do them, the better you feel. Street Fighter 6 is doing it perfectly by having 2 sets of ways to play. Directional Inputs to get new Players into the game but having a limit to all Character Move Sets. If you happen to like the game enough and want to learn the other things, you can graduate to learning how Real 2D Fighting Games is played by the Motion Input Controls. If all 2D Fighting Game has is Directional Inputs in the future, a lot of us will be done playing Fighting Games. At least I would be. I’ll just play my old 2D Fighting Games. There’s still many things to learn playing the old classics.
Hey I understand you the reason I sometimes hate DP motions is be cause I tend to tense up during moments like wakeup but because I played mbtl I’m constantly training my muscle memory
Honestly, you hit the nail on the head. You already how I feel about MBTL. I've been in the training room practicing air dashing & finding inputs that work well together to see if I can create a combo with. I think its great to have easy accessible options in the beginning because it gives new players a goal to work toward if they decide to purse the game in a serious manner.
I'm glad your enjoying the learning process of fighting games again bro 🙏
Hard combos don't mean cool-looking, and easy combos don't mean boring-looking. Most people like combos because they're flashy and look awesome, not because "they're 1F link combos". Many times you can get long combos in a FG without them being hard to perform.
"Player expression" isn't only about combos, it's about EVERYTHING the player does and execution is only a part of that package.
I think the way to go is give alot of options. Alot of easy combos that look cool for people who are newer and for people that want to flex or completely optimize combos give a good bit of harder combo options as well. Personally i can enjoy any fighting game aslong as it has options and doesnt feel like its trying to limit you excessively.
"Are easy inputs okay in fighting games?"
Anything is okay to have in fighting games. It's a game. A more targeted question would involve the player. For example, "Do easy inputs make fighting games more/less fun?" That's a question you can reasonably think about.
The answer is "maybe." It depends on the types of players you're trying to get to play the game. If you want money, then target the biggest possible array of players. This would involve small barrier of entry, and high skill ceiling, and good netcode, and good general aesthetic. I think Guilty Gear Strive does this pretty well, which is why it's so popular. There are more things that certain players care about, like single player content, but these four are the biggest and most important things that the vast majority of players would consider "good."
Specifically talking about easy inputs... what types of players does this draw in, and what types of players does it push away? Everything else staying the same, if you remove complex inputs and replace them with easy inputs, that automatically lowers both the barrier of entry and the skill ceiling. In other words, you will GAIN the players that need the easy inputs in order to have fun, and you will LOSE the players that need the complex inputs in order to have fun. Depending on the circumstances, one of those pools of people will be bigger. If a selling point of a game is its difficulty, then you probably shouldn't simplify inputs, since your target audience is specifically all those people who like difficulty. If a selling point of a game is how easy it is, you probably should try to make the inputs as easy as possible.
But, in either case, IN GENERAL, your maximum audience size involves having both. Street Fighter IV honestly does a good job of this, having both easy and difficult combos that accommodate everybody, with the exception of a handful of characters that can't reasonably function without doing difficult link combos. Another example is Killer Instinct (2013), which has a very easy combo system where you just press buttons with no timing, or a very difficult combo system that requires you to press buttons with very precise timing. The former is easier to perform and easier to counter as the opponent, and the latter is harder to perform but basically impossible for the opponent to counter on reaction.
And you can't just focus on the extremes. More people play fighting games than noobs and Daigos. The game won't be popular if you ONLY have the easy combos and the hard combos. You need things in between, so that the player can choose to do the hardest combos that they are confident in doing during matches.
And inputs aren't the only execution barrier fighting games can have. If anything, the inputs in Street Fighter IV are too easy, giving you DPs when you just wanted to do a crouching jab. What makes certain combos in that game hard is the timing of link combos, which are unbuffered and necessary for every character. Compare that to KoF XIII, which has very long input windows to perform juggles with special moves if you hold the button down, but the motions are often very complex and need to be performed rapidly. The EX Iori infinite requires four quarter circles per rep, and each rep is like half a second long. The timing isn't strict, but you need to be able to do four quarter circles fast enough.
The key takeaway from this discussion is it's not as simple as "yes, make inputs easier" or "no, don't make inputs easier." And yet most people seem to take one of those two extremes, because doing so doesn't require any in-depth thought.
I think it depends on the type of game you are designing as well. Games like SFIV are heavily balanced around 1 frame links and inputs. The systems at play in SF are fairly simple, characters don't have any real wild shit that they do. Because the power level of the game itself is low, to add depth to it they make the mechanical side harder.
Compare that to something like +r, where the character power level is just insane, and you've got a bunch of different systems in the background and specials everywhere, execution becomes a secondary focus. The game would not lose much by losing the motion inputs.
Additionally, DNF proves you can balance moves around simple inputs. A shoryuken input serves as a way to prevent people from DP'ing you in every combo, as it forces you to let go of block to get it out. If that was just a down-forward button press, in order to balance it you'd have to make the blockstun frames last longer or start-up frames for the attack longer.
I think if your a fighting gamer it's extremely silly to write a game off just cause of it's Inputs. I feel like mechanics are much more important then inputs
I dont think the thing people should complain about is games having simple/easy inputs. I get people dont like every game bieng like that. But the inputs bieng easy isnt whats giving you less options and combos. The issue is taking away options and limiting what you can do with the tools you have. As someone who does really enjoy combos i dont mind short combos at all if you have a good amount of combo options like To me strive is not a easy input game but it is simplified in a different way that makes me just find the game pretty boring.
If a combo is a hard to do, and you know how hard it is to do, you WILL feel the hype
Thank you. There was a ton of combos i cant do. However watching someone pull it off in a tournament made me hype
I don't think necessarily. There have been plenty of times in video games in general where I imagine to do something extremely hard, and the only emotion I feel is relief. If you don't find the challenge interesting or exciting, then you won't feel accomplished, because the execution was just A chore for you to do.
I think we could reframe this discussion via skill floor and skill ceiling. Those advocating for accessibility want a low skill floor. Those who want a top tier competitive game NEED a high skill ceiling. You can NEVER lower the skill floor at the cost of the skill ceiling in a competitive game, or you harm the game. It's that simple. If it doesn't lower the skill ceiling? Perfect, no one cares at the top end. The other thing that is necessary for "personal expression" at the top end is a broad number of actions someone could take at any time.
I think the I issue is legacy. The fighting games that are being changed are old. It would be wrong to a lot of people to change something that loved. More people are open to brand new ip doing this stuff since it has no nostalgic aspect or recognition.
this!!! i dont wanna see street fighter reduced to the way the phone port of sf4 was.. i wanted to play sf4 on my phone on the go but couldnt cuz i did feel i had the control i wanted. i get sf6 will have both inputs, n as a vet i wont touch the modern.. but games like KoF VX where the auto combo cant be turned off im sorta on the fence.. accidently going into auto combo doesnt sound attractive to me
This is a topic I actually care about immensely. I'm a HUGE fighting game fan despite not having many FG experiences under my belt. FG's are niche specifically because the barrier of entry typically is too high. Tekken has to be the easiest example I can think of. It has everything you could want in terms of very unique looking characters with very unique styles of play and moves in general look explosive and flashy. However the execution level for inputs is very demanding for even something as "basic" for neutral which would be the Korean back dash. Then you add the absolutely massive list of moves each character has and it just gets overwhelming.
There is a charm to have higher execution demand for some characters and I think GG Strive has a fair balance of this in that the main roster is pretty accessible from an input perspective but some of the dlc characters are more input demanding. But yes, simpler inputs does not equate to less of a skill ceiling. Player expression IMO shouldn't be rested heavily on what inputs the character has access to but what they can do with said inputs. Meaning the game's base systems and mechanics can and should be carrying that weight. But there's totally room for some character specific mechanics as well (usually involves a micro game of managing a resource or something.)
But I digress, I want more people to like fighting games and play fighting games. For that to happen they need to be more accessible and they need to look fucking crazy. Type Lumina is very good with the former but drops off a bit in the latter outside of extended combos so it's understandable that people look at TL and call it boring/bland looking. But games like DBFZ, GG strive, and DNF duel I think are doing a great job of nailing both of those aspects. So we need more games like them.
Hot take. The barrier to entry for fighting games isn’t really more (or much more) than other more popular competitive games like CS;GO or League of Legends.
I think the big difference is two things. The first is the perceived skill barrier (fighting games have a reputation for being hard) and the small size of the community (I can’t play GG+R without fighting someone who has been playing the game for ten years). League of Legends has such a large community that match making can pair you with other new players but many (most) fighting games cannot.
@@ezraho8449 I'll have to take you at your word for those games as I have little to no experience with them. Closest I have to League is Smite but I'd hardly say they're a fair comparison. Not that i'm disagreeing with your assertion but what I meant by "barrier of entry" in my statement is more on learning actual inputs and some of it being how much legacy knowledge benefits a player. If that's what you thought I was referring to then my bad for over clarifying.
@@mongrelshadow14 I’d argue that learning the inputs is the easy part of fighting games. Most characters in most you can master that stuff over the course of a couple of hours. The hard part is everything afterwards.
But I digress.
@@ezraho8449 I mean yeah putting all the moving parts together is definitely harder in most cases. But idk games like Tekken are difficult from an input perspective for me. I have a much easier time with inputs on anime fighting games.
Very well done bro. I wrote off project L and granblue but after playing granblue I actually did a full turnaround
GBVS is a fun game! I just wished more people played it lol
Good points. Depth does not equal complexity, a lot of fighting games complexity is gone nowadays. Simple reason, not enough money in making things hardcore.
I may be in the minority, but when I can see everything easy to do in a fighting game I lose interest, even when I'm winning.
I don't think your in the minority of wanting fighting games to have some depth to strive for. As I stated in the video, ideal game balance would be to have levels of "accessibility" while also rewarding your more hardcore audience with depth to strive for to keep the interest of these players as well. If the newer players love the game enough they will eventually purse the next level of the game as they want to do "cool shit" as well.
@@DaikenFGC That would be ideal but it is certainly hard to accomplish. Thanks for bringing the topic to light, good video. 👍
This is crazy I thought this was a new video 😂😂 especially after the Tekken 8 stuff
Honestly I want more fighting games to step outside the box and stop thinking so traditionally. The best fighting game I ever played that mixed tradition with new style was clash of ninja. In the game its almost like tekken in movement and fighting. But it's also an anime arena fighter with its combat simplicity. Thay being said you had different routes for each character that required certain buttons and directions be pushed at specific times. Instead of focusing on the way the stick moved for execution, it put more focus on timing as execution.
It also provided more and more mechanics for combo extenders and performers as well as move in options as the game made newer titles. This made it have the lowest barrier of entry known to man cause anyone can literally pick it up and play. But to actually compete you had to learn your character and other character playstyles to fight and bait them effectively. Made the matches feel great when you watch people play a certain way around other characters while also still being rewarding.
Unfortunately clash is the only game of its kind with no game ever being similarly created. So if your like me and got used to it's style of combat being super beginner friendly while also having depth, just sucks to be you. Honestly wish more games tried what eighting did with clash. It would probably work for them, clash still has a cult following of people that love it to this day. It's considered to be the first original anime fighter to stand out before fighterz but bandai was dumb and released it alongside another naruto game at the same time on the more renowned consoles of playstation and Xbox. While this technical fighter was on gamecube and wii.... so yeah there will probably never be another game like it ever created, bit I would be the first to hope on it if it was, don't care what it is as long as the fighting and technicality is the same that's all that matters.
THIS 1000%. If anything this new wave of accessible fighting games can go on for some years and get people interested, and then slowly start dialing the crazy back up to the point where there is a healthy in-between for veterans and newcomers to the genre. Good fucking video, Daiken!
As long as the engine is "loose" enough you can see the variety if I can get a 30% combo in 5 different ways I can just choose my fav way to get it thus giving me my individuality
0:18 what wallpaper is that? Is it on Wallpaper Engine?
yea wallpaper engine
@@DaikenFGC name plssss
@@Sonderasf idk the exact name but if you search up Tsukihime you will find it
@@DaikenFGC goat fr
If you want to keep combos, I think player feedback systems need to be improved. Did this drop because it's impossible or because it needed different timing?
Was I late? Was I early? *How would you know if you never played before?*
some games have histun decay bars like Blazblue which gives the feedback I think your looking for. But obviously thats just one game example
@@DaikenFGC Use your power to get MBTL to add one! But yes, I thought it was pretty great that they added that.
They are one of the best things to ever happen to fighting games.
People are wrong, easy inputs are not the enemy, the real enemy are forced auto combos, auto combos actually make games worse.
Now an optional auto combo is fine, like you can mash A in under night and get an unoptimal combo and that's fine for beginners but when they get intrusive like in type lumina it can greatly kill the game feel.
Also I feel like a lot of people dismiss motion inputs as just an execution barrier to gate keep people completely ignoring the fact that there are people that find doing them fun, like bro I don't want to gate keep you, I just wanna have fun with the game
Fun. Balancing moves. Allowing more moves on a character despite the limited amount of buttons. There's plenty of reasons Inputs exist and why you can't just take a game and rip them out. You have to build the game around the easy inputs and rebalance types of moves so you don't have crap like SSF4 3DS Guile that can Sonic Boom at the press of a button.
easy inputs are a gateway drug to the mlg quarter circle
Can’t we have both simplified input games and more hardcore games
You know I'm against simple input stuff but I deal with it. But honestly just give me one more technical blazblue and the devs can go on for the next 10 years making simple input fighters lol.
😅
Arrows>>>Numpad in video guides.
just in time.
I just want the timings to be less finicky
Like, imagine you're a casual player and only play when your buddy comes over. Wouldn't it be great to retain that knowledge as time goes on, so you both can still do amazing things even though you only play once a week?
I know that sounds horrible to some hardcore ppl. But what I see in things like BBCF, people are not playing against an opponent, they're playing against the combo system.
Shield and parry forever!
Macros should be legal
Directional Inputs is absolutely garbage. There’s a satisfying feeling you get from executing Motion Inputs at the right time and situation in a match. I totally get NO SATISFACTION from Directional Inputs like games like Power Rangers. The whole essence & heart of 2D Fighting Games to me is the Motion Inputs being executed at the right time & situation. Now I can understand there are some inputs that are too ridiculous to be having. But I see nothing wrong with quarter circles, half circles & even one that are quarter circles back or front then half circle front or back. Like how you would execute Supers in KOF XV. Some of you guys want everything easy. What satisfaction do you get from accomplishing something easy. Adversity creates character in a person. But if you like being held all the time, than good luck making it in life. Anyway, games are supposed to have a challenge. Motion Inputs in 2D Fighting Games is part of the Challenge. You learn how to do them, the better you feel. Street Fighter 6 is doing it perfectly by having 2 sets of ways to play. Directional Inputs to get new Players into the game but having a limit to all Character Move Sets. If you happen to like the game enough and want to learn the other things, you can graduate to learning how Real 2D Fighting Games is played by the Motion Input Controls. If all 2D Fighting Game has is Directional Inputs in the future, a lot of us will be done playing Fighting Games. At least I would be. I’ll just play my old 2D Fighting Games. There’s still many things to learn playing the old classics.
Then don’t play new fighting games stick with the classics
@@UnoTheSmartGuy LOL! Okay!
Hey I understand you the reason I sometimes hate DP motions is be cause I tend to tense up during moments like wakeup but because I played mbtl I’m constantly training my muscle memory
But I hate dnf duel not because it’s easy i hate it because of the developers that are rushing the game