One thing I learned when trying to do the text to speech is you have to test words to see how they'll sound and spell them so that they're pronounced correctly, like leeters instead of liters. Plus, it says litters for liters which doesn't make sense anyway.
I have used one of these pumps. They are amazing. They pump water 24/7 and use no electrical power. The flow is not great but over a 24 hour period there is a substantial volume .
@@mekanizmalar does your outlet water stay under pressure, and how much? or does this just go to an open tub with an overflow? Thanks and great video explanation!
This is absolutely fascinating, it makes perfect sense now. I was always wondering how this worked. I might try building a tiny model and experimenting with it sometime. :D Sound and movement coming from pipes when the water is suddenly turned off is definitely something I'v seen. In our basement a small pipe, a 3/4 inch or less in diameter and quite long, bounces a few inches occasionally.
+theLuigiFan0007 Thank you for your visit and nice comment about my video. When you build a smaller version and post it, please let me know. I want to see how it works. I guess you like birds, your owl background in your computer is very nice. Look at my video how birds fly, you may like it. ua-cam.com/video/1kztP_XTEPk/v-deo.html
mekanizmalar Ah, yes that wallpaper. Got quite a few nature wallpapers, of which at least 1/4 of them have pictures of various birds like Owls, Robins, Eagles, etc. I do have a bit of an interest in birds as I like to watch them and take pictures of them occasionally. Right now there's a robin nest in the side of a bush a few feet from the windows and you get a perfect view of it. Wonder if a bluebird will find the house I put up on near a pine tree in the yard or not. :O Thanks for the link. I will watch it. :D
Can you compute the physics of the Giza Pyramid as a Ram pump? You have water going down the descending passage, a valve shoots the water to the ascending passage and gallery. The pressure tank at the relief chambers, the output at queen’s chambers and kings chambers shafts for restarting and stopping actions through those arcs at those two copper electrodes
YT Channel: "Steven Myers". Video Series 2. Video 3. Introduction To The Construction Pump. The Great Pyramid was not a Ram Pump because it does not have a necessary cycling water vent in the subterranean chamber. He then goes on to describe how it was used as a pump, but not a Ram pump.
Best explanation so far. Need to add sniffer valve before air tank. Because after some times the air in the tank disolves in to water and tank get fill with water. Then hammer banging starts.
Very clearly explained - Thank you.... (though personally I think I'd like to experiment with a weighted piston system that has a resistance weight sufficient only to close the waste valve, plus perhaps a non-linear-load-spring of some sort; with a view to better exploiting the waters velocity. plus perhaps an inline; non-return valve near the base of the uphill delivery pipe = makes-ya'-thunk :) ) Again Thank-You :) John
Bravo! Well done! How about a video on hot rodding it. There was another video where the weight of the water was enough to push it's self through a tube a couple of inches above the level of the water. If you could do that a few times the 10 liters could be replenished. Cheers
Excellent, clear, detailed explanation. Might a spiral pump be better? I came here by way of youtube recommendations. I easily see that spiral pumps are mistakenly trashed by people who don't understand physics. I understand a bit more, but comparing this with a spiral pump is beyond me. Best wishes, and thanks for the video.
Ray Kent There is no single perfect solution to pumping water to higher elevations. Spiral pumps require outside force such as electricity, animal or wind power, ram pumps do not require external power source. Also, spiral pumps pump the water to low elevation such us 5 to 10 meters, while ram pumps are capable pumping the water higher elevations. On the other hand spiral pumps work anywhere there is suitable external power source, while ram pups require a suitable place to operate.
mekanizmalar thanks. I clicked on your icon and saw a lot of interesting stuff to look at later. As I'm sure you're aware, a spiral pump can be powered by paddle wheels from flowing water. And the ram pump also needs a downflow of water to work. I'd like to know which one is more efficient (in practical terms of build-cost, maintenance, etc). Both seem to be very useful. I can't compare the two, my brain's too small. Can you roughly point to where one would be better than the other, or are we in incompletely known territory?
Can this principal use a small pump ( in a existing pond)and send water up further than the the pump''s head height and what size to send water 4mtrs hgh
This is so fascinating. I imagine the water being pumped uphill can be stored in a water tower, that way buildings nearby could receive that water via gravity?
I would assert that the primary mechanism of the ram pump is conversion of kinetic energy rather than potential energy. Yes you need your reservoir to be above the pump (potential energy), but the key to the pump's operation is that the intake water must have some velocity so that when the waste valve closes the momentum of that mass of water forces the water along a different path even against some resistance, namely into the accumulator tank and ultimately through the outlet and uphill. If the inlet water flows too slowly it won't force itself into the tank, which means you need to tune the size and tension of the waste valve to allow the water to get up some speed before it forces the waste valve closed.
Intake water velocity is produced by converting the potential energy into kinetic energy. If the height difference between waste valve and reservoir surface is h. The water velocity will be sqrt(9,81*h) meter per second. Higher the h the faster the water will flow in the inlet pipe.
Momentum is the key word for my understanding. The water starts moving in the pipe and emptying out the waste valve. The valve slams shut. That momentum of the moving water pushes water up into the pressure tank. The cycle starts again.
OK you need to talk about the snifter valve,this makes it maintenance free. You need a good self cleaning inlet filter a bit of door mesh don't cut it.
SkillsFor Christ im guessing you cold make intermediary ponds along the way and have a series of pumps. 500m seems a long way. Just my thought, ive never actually made one.
You could use the high pressure from the bottom of the lake, to pump water upstream, but the higher you want to go, the deeper the intake has to be and the smaller the volume of water that can be moved. Also, a valve might be needed to keep the water from going back down if the pumping stops, and a pump (like a crank pump) might be needed to start and re-start the pumping. Note that you could use a solar collector-concentrator line (or lines) connected to a stirling engine to power a water pump, but the engine would need to use 2 small pumps for moving that heat from the pipes to the hot intake of the stirling engine, and cooling the cold part of the stirling engine. Excess heat can be stored in a rammed-earth structure (dirt + 5% cement and 5-10% water, packed down really well) with curved tubes for transferring heat. Also, another stirling engine (with it's own 2 small pumps) can be used to either cool down or heat up something (like for cooking or refrigerating/freezing food).
thank you sir for this inspiring video regarding ram pump. but i have a question sir, can the ram pump be use where the source of water is from a deepwell with a deep of 60 feet? hope you can answer it. God Bless
+ariel liza Thanks for your comment. My answer to your question is NO. You can't pump water from a deep well by using Ram Pumps. Ram pumps use the potential energy of the water in high elevation to pump some portion of this water to higher elevation than the source level. During this process the potential energy of the source first converted to kinetic energy to create ram effect as described in video. Since the water level you mentioned is 60 feet below and there is no way to generate water flow, there is no way we can use a Ram pump. But you might use air lift pump if you have pressurized air generated by a wind turbine. Please look at the following video for air lift pumps. ua-cam.com/video/03EmME_OB-s/v-deo.html
+Richie Mann This subject is not as easy to explain. I will try my best to explain it. When water coming from the inlet pipe, the potential energy is converted to kinetic energy while the flow is flowing toward the waste valve. In one point increased flow speed will cause waste valve to close due to Venturi effect. Since water in the inlet pipe has forward momentum, closing the waste valve will cause pressure to increase tremendously. This pressure increase will open the delivery pipe and send the water to higher elevation. But at some point the bouncing pressure wave will cause the pressure drop (expansion wave) around the waste valve. This will cause the delivery valve to close and the waste valve to open at the same time. Please look at pressure fluctuation in the ram pump in the following URL. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_hammer. Remember, this is dynamic system and expansion and compression waves mowing back and forth in the pipes. The ram pump is very simple device, but theory behind it is some what complex, as you can see it in the link I provided.
this would be a really neat project to do at my family's cabin as it does not have flowing water and its a pain to tread down the rocky terrain to get said water
Is there any possibility I could use this to pump sea water? I would have to dig a hole on the ground to have the water to go to the ram pump, but but how do I get rid of the water that is going to the environment? Isn't that gonna fill the hole?
+mekanizmalar You could capture seawater during the high tide and store it in a tank above the average sealevel and then use it to run a ram during the period when the tides drop the water level below the bottom of the pump. It wont run when the tides are high, but you do have the advantage of an infinitely replenishing water supply and you can make the holding tank larger to increase the water pressure and hence the raise the flow rate/ possible elevation you can move water up. Vastly more complex than your standard ramp pump, and with several trade offs, but not impossible.
Yes, this only works in places where there is elevation difference between source of the water and its destination. It will definitely not work for a well.
marcibb I am hoping that someone more knowledgeable in the subject can answer this much better than I do. It is a difficult question to answer.I believe that when the system is designed there is NOT much control for someone to control it. I could be wrong, so lets wait someone more knowledgeable in the subject to pitch in. However for an optimum efficiency you may be able to design the ram pump by taking into consideration following properties. What is the volumetric rate of the water coming from supply side? What is the water head of the supply side? And finally what is the height of the storage thank with respect to the pump where we are going to pump water? Design should take those consideration for optimum ram pump for a given location. I think this is not exact answer you are looking for, but this is the best I can come up with.
Thank you for your visit and comment. Weight of the check valve pulling the valve downward. At the same time ram pressure pushes the valve to closed position. During this time the other check-valve (you call it anti back flow valve) is open and water begin to flow to the higher elevation. However the system is dynamic. Compression wave closing the waste valve is followed by an expansion wave which reduces pressure substantially and the waste valve opens. The water flowing around the valve reduces the pressure which causes the waste valve to close and cycle repeat itself.
why is the waste valve needed at all? can you just have the water enter the chamber, build to a high presser, close the anti back-flow valve and go to the outlet? then when the pressure is low again, the anti back-flow valve opens and the cycle repeats? I'm finding it hard to understand the role of the waste valve. thanks for the animation.
If I did not misunderstand what you are saying is that water magically flows from low level reservoir to high level reservoir, without discharging any water. If my understanding was correct, it is impossible thing to do. You cannot make a system that pump water from low elevation to high elevation without using an external power source.. That is why we use pumps to pump water to higher elevations. For the ram pump, the external power source is the potential energy of the waste water we discharge. If there is no discharge, there will be no water pumping.
I didn't understand why the left most valve ( in the above video) was needed. now i can see that it creates the inertia of the water needed to push the right most valve. before i thought you could simply have just the right valve and the water prussure from the resevoir alone.
+Barry Wind Thank you for your visit. If the elevation is small, the volume should be high. I guess 2 or 4 meter elevation with high volume can pump water. If you have 10 liters per second water flow with elevation of 2 meter, you should be able to pump less than 0.1 liter per second to elevation to 200 meters, or less than 1 liter per second to elevation of 20 meters. Formula should be h*q < 10*2 where h is elevation, q is water flow rate at the exit, 10 is inlet volume rate and 2 is water head for the pump. If you want 2 liter per second volume rate, the water can be bumped to a height less than 10 meter. How much less, requires knowledge about pump efficiency. The numbers I mentioned for theoretical 100 percent efficient cases. Check the following link for more info. www.lifewater.org/resources/rws4/rws4d5.htm
@@mekanizmalar Hmmm. Not very encouraging. I've got about a 1.5 meter fall, and very low volume. I'm still very interested in giving this a try. The lifewater link is '404 Page Not Found'.
Thank you for your comment, I realized that making pixel size particles to move is not good. In the newer version of the program I can make particles larger. Should I do new version of ram pump animation?
I am in my 80s, These statements are food for thought. Once the water is 40 or 50 foot above the spring pond, could it not be used to generate electricity?. Could we use rain water from a reservoir to replace the spring pond?. Dan
The answer to your first question could be yes, but it would be very expensive and you can't get continuous electricity. First, you should have very large reservoir at 40 or 50 feet elevation to store pumped water. Then when the reservoir is full you can generate electricity for limited duration. Of course, someone should analyze how much water being pumped to high elevation and and what is kW energy you need to generate. The second question yes, you can use a reservoir to pump water to higher ground, but when the reservoir empty, you have to wait for the rain.
Conservation of energy still applies, as the maker of this video says. I'm pretty sure you'd generate more electricity by passing the pond water directly to a lower elevation, rather than first pumping it to a higher elevation and then allowing it to flow to a lower elevation, since you'd have fewer opportunities for energy losses due to leaking, friction, etc.
I would imagine that if you had a significant lift that you needed to achieve you could rig the rams in succession. This way you could use the first pump to fill a tank at a higher level. Once you have that tank filled then you could repeat the process with water from that initial tank and pump up even higher to your water tower. You would then have better pressure at your point of use if that is what is required.
+John Johnson Keep in mind that each pump stage is going to only pump about 10% of the water up to the next stage, wasting the other 90% out the waste valve. So in the end you are only getting 10% of 10% of the original amount of water. That's a LOT of loss (waste).
+Brian Meyer I personally don't like the term "waste" water. It is necessary use of water. If your ram pump working 10 meters elevation with 10 liter flow rate, and you want to pump 1 liter water to 100 meters from pump level, the energy of 10 liter water in the lower reservoir with respect to pump is 10*10 = 100. Energy level of 1 liter water with respect to pump in higher reservoir is 1 * 100 = 100. Therefore you have to discharge 9 liter per second from the pump to maintain 1 liter flow rate to higher reservoir. You are using potential energy of 9 liter to take 1 liter water to higher elevation (100m). When we sent an astronaut to the orbit, we are not wasting fuel in the rocket, using that fuel to take astronaut to higher potential level.
+Ye Olde Salt I don't understand your comment. Everyone knows that you need flowing water to generate electricity. But some people don't know about conservation of energy. You can't generate more energy from flowing water than its initial potential energy. Efficiency of your turbine will be measured as ratio of the generated energy versus the initial potential energy of the water.
potential energy can be infinite but no work will be done unless it turns kinetic. the point is that you should not have used the term "potential energy" at all. the correct term is "kinetic energy". Work = Force X Distance. No flow, no distance, hence no work.
+Ye Olde Salt I am sorry to say to you that your Work formula is completely wrong. Please correct the formula you write, before commenting how I use Potential energy description in my animation.
no go from here and researc the great pyramid water pump theory. it doesnt include aliens but its pretty crazy as well however more believable. one of my favorites.
Good day,what is the meaning of RAM,is it an abbreviation of what?what mechanism is that the water goes outside the chambers,and lastly,the valves are in alternating sequence,like e.g. when one open,the other close and vice versa but not the same time close or open?thanks for you response.which determine if the accumulator valve to open and close also the diffuser valve to open and clise?
As you know RAM is a male sheep. During courtship, ram fights by banging theirs had to each other. Also during fortress sieges the gate of the fortress bang with a heavy log which is called ram. In the ram pump, the ramming is done by water. If water flows from a large pipe with high velocity, when water flow is suddenly interrupted this creates a lot of pressure inside the pipe, like a large log hitting a fortress gate. This event happens when the waste valve is closed. This high pressure is relieved by opening a water feeder valve which pumps water to the high ground. Eventually, this reduces pressure and the waste valve opens and at the same time the other valve closes, and the cycle is repeated.
What if i build bundwall of rocks across the creek to elevate the water level to at least a meter high and install my rampump below the bundwall, but inside the creek to avoid wasting thr water?
Was giving this some thought. You can't impede the flow out of the waste valve. But if like in the diagram you dug a hole below the creek level you could mount the pump in the hole. Then use a separate water wheel pump to put the waste water back into the creek. Flowing water has it's own energy the water energy going to the ram pump is already being used but there is plenty of other water with potential energy that can be used.
Ain't gonna work, PP. Better: make a weir in your bundwall--a "V" cut, top center, that ALL the water has to pass through. Channel all the water possible into a pipe, affixed to the weir, and extending further downstream (5-7meters) to your pump inflow opening. The greater the flow and fall, the better your pump's resulting volume of water pumped. (And the greater the head/ feet it will be able to overcome.)
I would think the most efficient design would have the pressure reservoir in line with the force of the water column's flow. instead of perpendicular to it. (e.g. swap the waste and delivery valve locations in the graphic.)
Yeah, I was thinking the same. Maybe you would solve the whole issue of valve placement by adding another forward-flow-only-valve even before the delivery valve. That way, it feels more like trapping pressure, rather than momentum. Does that make sense?
I wonder if one could hook this up to one of those water generators to produce electricity.. you could run the water in a loop so it reuses the same water to keep spinning the wheel and keep your batteries charged. Of course theres that bit of water that sprays out so you have to replenish the water eventually.
It is not possible to do that. You have to discharge the water in lower level than it enter to the system. You can still use this water to generate electricity as long as you discharge the water elevation further. You can do this process up to the point where discharge water to the sea level. Thanks got we have sun, which makes water to evaporate and it falls on earth as a rain and cycle continues.
Hard for me to understand the animation !!! Water source on the right side (large blue reservoir ? and the water is meant to be pumped uphill thry the red pipe on the left ? Please confirm.
Yes, it is exactly as you said. The large blue pipe on the right has intermittent water flow. When wastewater flows out, the pressure in the pipe reduces. This caused the wastewater valve to close. And flow coming from large blue pipe has some velocity but nowhere to go. This creates very high pressure close to the flowing feed valve to open and pumps water to an elevated level.
is there a ram pump that does excrete water? i mean yes it pumps water w/o electricity or fuel but it doesent pump the water out efficiently. some water gets wasted in the process.
+jaybs 25 Thank you for visiting my channel and your comment. Actually efficiency of this turbine is not as bad as it seams. I tried to explain this in the video. Let assume that this simple system working with 30 percent efficiency. Would you use 90 percent efficient electric pump to do pumping. It would be relatively expensive, would need electricity and monthly electric bill just for pumping the water. I would go with 30 percent efficiency without paying any bill.
godzuki101 I have thought about that before and you would have to get some of the water flowing downhill to the ram pump and then pump it back uphill dropping it onto the water surface. there is water loss at the ram pump location So eventually it would lower the level of your pond.
I understand that this is be far a better way to pump water from a lower moving water source to any where higher but the waist water is more than am happy with, can you route the water back into water source . meaning if you did this from a water tank???????????????
you have to have another tank over the discard valve or a HIGHER PIPE over it with an open tank at top as high or hihger than the inflow area uphill.. to contain the water pressure from this height..it takes a few tests to figure this height.. this water REVERSES back into the pressure tank going up hill and contains the water..so simple ..people are silly
What do you mean by another area? If you want to connect it to a pond where its elevation below the waste water level, yes you can. If there is another drop in the elevation, you could use another ram pump.
freaking awesome you got Stephen Hawking to narrate this video.
Funny, Bill. You notice how "he" pronounced "joules" like "jowls". Hawking is slipping in his old age. :)
It is funny, one can't see the forest for the trees.
One thing I learned when trying to do the text to speech is you have to test words to see how they'll sound and spell them so that they're pronounced correctly, like leeters instead of liters. Plus, it says litters for liters which doesn't make sense anyway.
Jarod Morris I'd say the reader needs to be fixed.
Jarod Morris .
This is pretty much how boost converters work as well. It is amazing how similar the seemingly different fields of physics are!
best description ever
compained with fluid mechanics formulas for more clarification
thanks is not enough :)
Between the animation and narration, you've made it crystal clear. Thx a ton. Subscribed.
+jsbaltes Thank a lot for your support.
I already knew how. Now I know why. Many thanks.
Thank you for your nice comment and visiting my channel.
Thanks for a great learning lesson and the facts of a water ram pump works. Great video!
Skip
Hi Skip, thank you for your nice comment and supporting comment.
Thank you very much this enhance my knowledge about the rampumps
from Chile... thank you for this video :)
Thank you for your comment and support.
thanks for adding the human voice video link
Thank you. This video is useful
По видео очень понятно показали принцип работы, спасибо вам большое.
I have used one of these pumps. They are amazing. They pump water 24/7 and use no electrical power. The flow is not great but over a 24 hour period there is a substantial volume .
+Ken Johnson Thank you for visiting my channel and informative comment.
KenJohnson
@@mekanizmalar does your outlet water stay under pressure, and how much? or does this just go to an open tub with an overflow?
Thanks and great video explanation!
@@carlbole2142 Outlet water continues down hill.
@@carlbole2142 You can store pumped water in water tower - so when it is needed, you have pressure.
Well done Mr. Robot! Thanks for the video.
What a great xplanation 👌🏻👌🏻
Thank you.
This is absolutely fascinating, it makes perfect sense now. I was always wondering how this worked.
I might try building a tiny model and experimenting with it sometime. :D
Sound and movement coming from pipes when the water is suddenly turned off is definitely something I'v seen.
In our basement a small pipe, a 3/4 inch or less in diameter and quite long, bounces a few inches occasionally.
+theLuigiFan0007 Thank you for your visit and nice comment about my video. When you build a smaller version and post it, please let me know. I want to see how it works.
I guess you like birds, your owl background in your computer is very nice. Look at my video how birds fly, you may like it. ua-cam.com/video/1kztP_XTEPk/v-deo.html
mekanizmalar
Ah, yes that wallpaper. Got quite a few nature wallpapers, of which at least 1/4 of them have pictures of various birds like Owls, Robins, Eagles, etc. I do have a bit of an interest in birds as I like to watch them and take pictures of them occasionally. Right now there's a robin nest in the side of a bush a few feet from the windows and you get a perfect view of it. Wonder if a bluebird will find the house I put up on near a pine tree in the yard or not. :O
Thanks for the link. I will watch it. :D
Is there a site or description somewhere to get proper specs for valves?
Can you compute the physics of the Giza Pyramid as a Ram pump? You have water going down the descending passage, a valve shoots the water to the ascending passage and gallery. The pressure tank at the relief chambers, the output at queen’s chambers and kings chambers shafts for restarting and stopping actions through those arcs at those two copper electrodes
YT Channel: "Steven Myers". Video Series 2. Video 3. Introduction To The Construction Pump.
The Great Pyramid was not a Ram Pump because it does not have a necessary cycling water vent in the subterranean chamber. He then goes on to describe how it was used as a pump, but not a Ram pump.
Is there a formula on how to calculate the size of the ram pump relative to the height and length of where the water is needed?
SUBSCRIBED! awesone videos
+Gio Tam Thank you, I appreciate it.
Great video!
So impressive and useful. Many thanks.
I wonder, would the same shut down valve do anything being installed close to the big chamber on the inlet tube?
Thanks for making it nice and simple.
Great video.
Shouldn't the incoming pipe be larger than the outgoing since the output trades pressure for flow?
Best explanation so far.
Need to add sniffer valve before air tank. Because after some times the air in the tank disolves in to water and tank get fill with water. Then hammer banging starts.
Thank you for your comment, which contributed something new to my knowledge about ram pumps.
The outlet can be discharged in an overhead storage tank to maintain pressure for household taps
How?
@@cemasti4524 you just put a tank in the pipe outlet to gather it and the pressure will increase the higher the water level in the tank is
New sub here. Brilliant. Keep up the great work.
Thank you for your nice comment.
HOLY! just like a DC step up converter
Very clearly explained - Thank you.... (though personally I think I'd like to experiment with a weighted piston system that has a resistance weight sufficient only to close the waste valve, plus perhaps a non-linear-load-spring of some sort; with a view to better exploiting the waters velocity. plus perhaps an inline; non-return valve near the base of the uphill delivery pipe = makes-ya'-thunk :) ) Again Thank-You :) John
Thank you for your visit and nice comment.
Great educational video for those of us who need a solution for our farm animals and need water for the crops. Thank you
Thank you for your nice comment and feedback.
Good job. Thank you.
Thank you for your visit and comment.
The victorians loved this type of pump, they were widely used in ornamental gardens.
Thank you for your visit and knowledge contribution to my channel. I appreciate it.
Bravo! Well done! How about a video on hot rodding it. There was another video where the weight of the water was enough to push it's self through a tube a couple of inches above the level of the water. If you could do that a few times the 10 liters could be replenished. Cheers
Really?
I was searching for pump a rum from dark souls...
reminds me of the kings chamber.giza pyramid.
You are jenious.
Whites stole this technology from the blacks flying pyramids after they stole them
@@fuhkhue1492 smoke more weed youll see flying black pyramids but first try to advance from cow dung houses.
Much appreciated with many thanks bro
Thank you for your nice comment and support my channel
Used this to explain a boost converter to a mechanic
Excellent, clear, detailed explanation. Might a spiral pump be better? I came here by way of youtube recommendations. I easily see that spiral pumps are mistakenly trashed by people who don't understand physics. I understand a bit more, but comparing this with a spiral pump is beyond me. Best wishes, and thanks for the video.
Ray Kent There is no single perfect solution to pumping water to higher elevations. Spiral pumps require outside force such as electricity, animal or wind power, ram pumps do not require external power source. Also, spiral pumps pump the water to low elevation such us 5 to 10 meters, while ram pumps are capable pumping the water higher elevations. On the other hand spiral pumps work anywhere there is suitable external power source, while ram pups require a suitable place to operate.
mekanizmalar thanks. I clicked on your icon and saw a lot of interesting stuff to look at later. As I'm sure you're aware, a spiral pump can be powered by paddle wheels from flowing water. And the ram pump also needs a downflow of water to work. I'd like to know which one is more efficient (in practical terms of build-cost, maintenance, etc). Both seem to be very useful. I can't compare the two, my brain's too small. Can you roughly point to where one would be better than the other, or are we in incompletely known territory?
awesome, i'm so happy i understood that! marvelous indeed.
+Kim Cao Thank you for your visit and nice comment.
Can this principal use a small pump ( in a existing pond)and send water up further than the the pump''s head height
and what size to send water 4mtrs hgh
another non return vale at out put may be useful to arrest the back flow
This is so fascinating. I imagine the water being pumped uphill can be stored in a water tower, that way buildings nearby could receive that water via gravity?
Thank you for your comment and visit to my channel. Yes, what you said can be done, as long as you find a suitable site for that.
I would assert that the primary mechanism of the ram pump is conversion of kinetic energy rather than potential energy. Yes you need your reservoir to be above the pump (potential energy), but the key to the pump's operation is that the intake water must have some velocity so that when the waste valve closes the momentum of that mass of water forces the water along a different path even against some resistance, namely into the accumulator tank and ultimately through the outlet and uphill. If the inlet water flows too slowly it won't force itself into the tank, which means you need to tune the size and tension of the waste valve to allow the water to get up some speed before it forces the waste valve closed.
Intake water velocity is produced by converting the potential energy into kinetic energy. If the height difference between waste valve and reservoir surface is h. The water velocity will be sqrt(9,81*h) meter per second. Higher the h the faster the water will flow in the inlet pipe.
mekanizmalar
daemn42 I agree. (Dr.) Bose my have some good insight to fluid compression dynamics.
Momentum is the key word for my understanding. The water starts moving in the pipe and emptying out the waste valve. The valve slams shut. That momentum of the moving water pushes water up into the pressure tank. The cycle starts again.
OK you need to talk about the snifter valve,this makes it maintenance free.
You need a good self cleaning inlet filter a bit of door mesh don't cut it.
How many meters can it pump to in elevation. I have a tribe i need to get water from the lake below to 500 meters straight up a mountain.
www.erlebnis-waldkultur-arnsberg.de/sites/default/files/widder-bauanleitung.pdf
SkillsFor Christ im guessing you cold make intermediary ponds along the way and have a series of pumps. 500m seems a long way. Just my thought, ive never actually made one.
Blei Hagel English please!
please could you upload it with English i liked that pdf
You could use the high pressure from the bottom of the lake, to pump water upstream, but the higher you want to go, the deeper the intake has to be and the smaller the volume of water that can be moved. Also, a valve might be needed to keep the water from going back down if the pumping stops, and a pump (like a crank pump) might be needed to start and re-start the pumping.
Note that you could use a solar collector-concentrator line (or lines) connected to a stirling engine to power a water pump, but the engine would need to use 2 small pumps for moving that heat from the pipes to the hot intake of the stirling engine, and cooling the cold part of the stirling engine. Excess heat can be stored in a rammed-earth structure (dirt + 5% cement and 5-10% water, packed down really well) with curved tubes for transferring heat. Also, another stirling engine (with it's own 2 small pumps) can be used to either cool down or heat up something (like for cooking or refrigerating/freezing food).
very useful, thank you!!
+Patrick alo Thank you for your nice comment and encouragement.
This would work where irrigation was needed both low and high from a constant water supply.
Such as the Nile delta flood plains Egypt
The great pyramid is one of these pumps
thank you sir for this inspiring video regarding ram pump. but i have a question sir, can the ram pump be use where the source of water is from a deepwell with a deep of 60 feet? hope you can answer it. God Bless
+ariel liza Thanks for your comment. My answer to your question is NO. You can't pump water from a deep well by using Ram Pumps. Ram pumps use the potential energy of the water in high elevation to pump some portion of this water to higher elevation than the source level. During this process the potential energy of the source first converted to kinetic energy to create ram effect as described in video. Since the water level you mentioned is 60 feet below and there is no way to generate water flow, there is no way we can use a Ram pump. But you might use air lift pump if you have pressurized air generated by a wind turbine. Please look at the following video for air lift pumps. ua-cam.com/video/03EmME_OB-s/v-deo.html
Superb..... Great explnation........
Thank you for your comment and visit to my channel.
Thanks for shearing basic principle of ramp pump.
Our pleasure! Thank you for your comment.
Is it possible that only the current of a river to make a rampump operate?
Wouldn't ensure potable water. But pretty cool usage of water hammer phenomena. Never considered that.
What makes the waste valve open? Pressure from the inlet tube would seem to keep it closed, unless you temporarily close the inlet?
+Richie Mann This subject is not as easy to explain. I will try my best to explain it. When water coming from the inlet pipe, the potential energy is converted to kinetic energy while the flow is flowing toward the waste valve. In one point increased flow speed will cause waste valve to close due to Venturi effect. Since water in the inlet pipe has forward momentum, closing the waste valve will cause pressure to increase tremendously. This pressure increase will open the delivery pipe and send the water to higher elevation. But at some point the bouncing pressure wave will cause the pressure drop (expansion wave) around the waste valve. This will cause the delivery valve to close and the waste valve to open at the same time. Please look at pressure fluctuation in the ram pump in the following URL. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_hammer. Remember, this is dynamic system and expansion and compression waves mowing back and forth in the pipes. The ram pump is very simple device, but theory behind it is some what complex, as you can see it in the link I provided.
this would be a really neat project to do at my family's cabin as it does not have flowing water and its a pain to tread down the rocky terrain to get said water
Thank you your visit and comment. As I said video, if the location right, this is excellent solution.
Can we put spring loaded piston on air compressing unit to have a stronger pump action?
Then it would not be an energy free pump
Nice explanation Sir. Really helpful to me.
Thank you for your visit and nice comment.
You most welcome Sir. Your video really help me. I will build my ram water pump in a near future.
When you finish it, I would like to see video of that.
Ok sir, will let you know.
Tebrik ederim, çok güzel bir çalışma
Cok tesekur ederim.
This is very good video show and thank you are share with us!
Thank you for your nice comment.
If Tickle can figure it out you can too.
Verry good video . thank for your share video .
+we share Thank you for your visit and encouragement.
Super interesting. Thanks
Thanks for your continuous support.
Is there any possibility I could use this to pump sea water? I would have to dig a hole on the ground to have the water to go to the ram pump, but but how do I get rid of the water that is going to the environment? Isn't that gonna fill the hole?
+Valquiria Jablinski You can't make this pump work below the see level. The discharged water will fill the hole as you said.
+mekanizmalar
You could capture seawater during the high tide and store it in a tank above the average sealevel and then use it to run a ram during the period when the tides drop the water level below the bottom of the pump. It wont run when the tides are high, but you do have the advantage of an infinitely replenishing water supply and you can make the holding tank larger to increase the water pressure and hence the raise the flow rate/ possible elevation you can move water up. Vastly more complex than your standard ramp pump, and with several trade offs, but not impossible.
How does one know how large the volume of the accumulator needs to be?
what is the purpose of alteration in inlet pipe diameter to a bigger diameter?
Hi sir have a good day my question is how about the water source from ground 4M deep ,
HOw about labeling things Source, Destination and showing flow with some arrows?
New version has bigger bubbles it, I guess it may help. ua-cam.com/video/6koHqPM_zxg/v-deo.html
does this work for pumping up water from a well? or is this only viable for flowing streams?
Yes, this only works in places where there is elevation difference between source of the water and its destination. It will definitely not work for a well.
mekanizmalar Überlebende".
Thanks for the comment. and happy new year.
There's what's your heart is in a nice diagram.
Interesting device, how would one regulate the valves for optimum function?
marcibb I am hoping that someone more knowledgeable in the subject can answer this much better than I do. It is a difficult question to answer.I believe that when the system is designed there is NOT much control for someone to control it. I could be wrong, so lets wait someone more knowledgeable in the subject to pitch in. However for an optimum efficiency you may be able to design the ram pump by taking into consideration following properties. What is the volumetric rate of the water coming from supply side? What is the water head of the supply side? And finally what is the height of the storage thank with respect to the pump where we are going to pump water? Design should take those consideration for optimum ram pump for a given location. I think this is not exact answer you are looking for, but this is the best I can come up with.
I don't get it. are those two valves anti back flow valves? then how can the waste valve open up and let the water out the wrong way?
Thank you for your visit and comment. Weight of the check valve pulling the valve downward. At the same time ram pressure pushes the valve to closed position. During this time the other check-valve (you call it anti back flow valve) is open and water begin to flow to the higher elevation. However the system is dynamic. Compression wave closing the waste valve is followed by an expansion wave which reduces pressure substantially and the waste valve opens. The water flowing around the valve reduces the pressure which causes the waste valve to close and cycle repeat itself.
why is the waste valve needed at all? can you just have the water enter the chamber, build to a high presser, close the anti back-flow valve and go to the outlet? then when the pressure is low again, the anti back-flow valve opens and the cycle repeats? I'm finding it hard to understand the role of the waste valve. thanks for the animation.
If I did not misunderstand what you are saying is that water magically flows from low level reservoir to high level reservoir, without discharging any water. If my understanding was correct, it is impossible thing to do. You cannot make a system that pump water from low elevation to high elevation without using an external power source.. That is why we use pumps to pump water to higher elevations. For the ram pump, the external power source is the potential energy of the waste water we discharge. If there is no discharge, there will be no water pumping.
I didn't understand why the left most valve ( in the above video) was needed. now i can see that it creates the inertia of the water needed to push the right most valve. before i thought you could simply have just the right valve and the water prussure from the resevoir alone.
Thanks man
What is the least amount of elevation needed to cause the ram pump to work and what is the height that it can be pumped to?
+Barry Wind Thank you for your visit. If the elevation is small, the volume should be high. I guess 2 or 4 meter elevation with high volume can pump water. If you have 10 liters per second water flow with elevation of 2 meter, you should be able to pump less than 0.1 liter per second to elevation to 200 meters, or less than 1 liter per second to elevation of 20 meters. Formula should be h*q < 10*2 where h is elevation, q is water flow rate at the exit, 10 is inlet volume rate and 2 is water head for the pump. If you want 2 liter per second volume rate, the water can be bumped to a height less than 10 meter. How much less, requires knowledge about pump efficiency. The numbers I mentioned for theoretical 100 percent efficient cases. Check the following link for more info.
www.lifewater.org/resources/rws4/rws4d5.htm
Thanks
@@mekanizmalar Hmmm. Not very encouraging. I've got about a 1.5 meter fall, and very low volume. I'm still very interested in giving this a try. The lifewater link is '404 Page Not Found'.
Finally, i understand. Thanks
Thank you for your nice comment and for visiting my channel.
Would of liked to seen the flow direction to confirm function. Cheers
Thank you for your comment, I realized that making pixel size particles to move is not good. In the newer version of the program I can make particles larger. Should I do new version of ram pump animation?
I am in my 80s, These statements are food for thought.
Once the water is 40 or 50 foot above the spring pond, could it not be used to generate electricity?.
Could we use rain water from a reservoir to replace the spring pond?.
Dan
The answer to your first question could be yes, but it would be very expensive and you can't get continuous electricity. First, you should have very large reservoir at 40 or 50 feet elevation to store pumped water. Then when the reservoir is full you can generate electricity for limited duration. Of course, someone should analyze how much water being pumped to high elevation and and what is kW energy you need to generate.
The second question yes, you can use a reservoir to pump water to higher ground, but when the reservoir empty, you have to wait for the rain.
Conservation of energy still applies, as the maker of this video says. I'm pretty sure you'd generate more electricity by passing the pond water directly to a lower elevation, rather than first pumping it to a higher elevation and then allowing it to flow to a lower elevation, since you'd have fewer opportunities for energy losses due to leaking, friction, etc.
I would like to know how important the waste valve function is and how to optimize it and different kinds of valves. This can't be unimportant.
Watch "land to house" or practical engineering videos, they explain it well.
alt yazı ekleyememiş ...
Excellent
Dear Sir, please let me know about diameter of input pipe and output of pipe. And diameter of big tube for compression water. Thank you
Just compute the ratio
I would imagine that if you had a significant lift that you needed to achieve you could rig the rams in succession. This way you could use the first pump to fill a tank at a higher level. Once you have that tank filled then you could repeat the process with water from that initial tank and pump up even higher to your water tower. You would then have better pressure at your point of use if that is what is required.
+John Johnson Yes it is possible to do it.
+John Johnson Keep in mind that each pump stage is going to only pump about 10% of the water up to the next stage, wasting the other 90% out the waste valve. So in the end you are only getting 10% of 10% of the original amount of water. That's a LOT of loss (waste).
+Brian Meyer I personally don't like the term "waste" water. It is necessary use of water. If your ram pump working 10 meters elevation with 10 liter flow rate, and you want to pump 1 liter water to 100 meters from pump level, the energy of 10 liter water in the lower reservoir with respect to pump is 10*10 = 100. Energy level of 1 liter water with respect to pump in higher reservoir is 1 * 100 = 100. Therefore you have to discharge 9 liter per second from the pump to maintain 1 liter flow rate to higher reservoir. You are using potential energy of 9 liter to take 1 liter water to higher elevation (100m). When we sent an astronaut to the orbit, we are not wasting fuel in the rocket, using that fuel to take astronaut to higher potential level.
of course, water, once flowing has kinetic energy. water, even at 10,000 meters will be useless in operating a ram pump unless it starts falling.
+Ye Olde Salt I don't understand your comment. Everyone knows that you need flowing water to generate electricity. But some people don't know about conservation of energy. You can't generate more energy from flowing water than its initial potential energy. Efficiency of your turbine will be measured as ratio of the generated energy versus the initial potential energy of the water.
potential energy can be infinite but no work will be done unless it turns kinetic. the point is that you should not have used the term "potential energy" at all. the correct term is "kinetic energy". Work = Force X Distance. No flow, no distance, hence no work.
+Ye Olde Salt I am sorry to say to you that your Work formula is completely wrong. Please correct the formula you write, before commenting how I use Potential energy description in my animation.
no go from here and researc the great pyramid water pump theory. it doesnt include aliens but its pretty crazy as well however more believable. one of my favorites.
Good day,what is the meaning of RAM,is it an abbreviation of what?what mechanism is that the water goes outside the chambers,and lastly,the valves are in alternating sequence,like e.g. when one open,the other close and vice versa but not the same time close or open?thanks for you response.which determine if the accumulator valve to open and close also the diffuser valve to open and clise?
As you know RAM is a male sheep. During courtship, ram fights by banging theirs had to each other. Also during fortress sieges the gate of the fortress bang with a heavy log which is called ram. In the ram pump, the ramming is done by water. If water flows from a large pipe with high velocity, when water flow is suddenly interrupted this creates a lot of pressure inside the pipe, like a large log hitting a fortress gate. This event happens when the waste valve is closed. This high pressure is relieved by opening a water feeder valve which pumps water to the high ground. Eventually, this reduces pressure and the waste valve opens and at the same time the other valve closes, and the cycle is repeated.
Thanks, very informative
very good
Sounds sort of like Dr. Sbaitso...
Thank you
Something that may be helpful is to show water direction I am still not clear what direction the water is flowing ?the explanation was good
how much is the installation of this kind of ram pump??
I really don't know.
What if i build bundwall of rocks across the creek to elevate the water level to at least a meter high and install my rampump below the bundwall, but inside the creek to avoid wasting thr water?
Was giving this some thought. You can't impede the flow out of the waste valve. But if like in the diagram you dug a hole below the creek level you could mount the pump in the hole. Then use a separate water wheel pump to put the waste water back into the creek. Flowing water has it's own energy the water energy going to the ram pump is already being used but there is plenty of other water with potential energy that can be used.
Ain't gonna work, PP. Better: make a weir in your bundwall--a "V" cut, top center, that ALL the water has to pass through. Channel all the water possible into a pipe, affixed to the weir, and extending further downstream (5-7meters) to your pump inflow opening. The greater the flow and fall, the better your pump's resulting volume of water pumped. (And the greater the head/ feet it will be able to overcome.)
nice explanation.
Thank you for your encouragement
I would think the most efficient design would have the pressure reservoir in line with the force of the water column's flow. instead of perpendicular to it. (e.g. swap the waste and delivery valve locations in the graphic.)
Yeah, I was thinking the same. Maybe you would solve the whole issue of valve placement by adding another forward-flow-only-valve even before the delivery valve. That way, it feels more like trapping pressure, rather than momentum. Does that make sense?
very informative
+Christine Gloria Aoanan Thank You.
I wonder if one could hook this up to one of those water generators to produce electricity.. you could run the water in a loop so it reuses the same water to keep spinning the wheel and keep your batteries charged. Of course theres that bit of water that sprays out so you have to replenish the water eventually.
It is not possible to do that. You have to discharge the water in lower level than it enter to the system. You can still use this water to generate electricity as long as you discharge the water elevation further. You can do this process up to the point where discharge water to the sea level. Thanks got we have sun, which makes water to evaporate and it falls on earth as a rain and cycle continues.
Hard for me to understand the animation !!! Water source on the right side (large blue reservoir ? and the water is meant to be pumped uphill thry the red pipe on the left ? Please confirm.
Yes, it is exactly as you said. The large blue pipe on the right has intermittent water flow. When wastewater flows out, the pressure in the pipe reduces. This caused the wastewater valve to close. And flow coming from large blue pipe has some velocity but nowhere to go. This creates very high pressure close to the flowing feed valve to open and pumps water to an elevated level.
is there a ram pump that does excrete water? i mean yes it pumps water w/o electricity or fuel but it doesent pump the water out efficiently. some water gets wasted in the process.
+jaybs 25 Thank you for visiting my channel and your comment. Actually efficiency of this turbine is not as bad as it seams. I tried to explain this in the video. Let assume that this simple system working with 30 percent efficiency. Would you use 90 percent efficient electric pump to do pumping. It would be relatively expensive, would need electricity and monthly electric bill just for pumping the water. I would go with 30 percent efficiency without paying any bill.
Ok, thanks. 😊
How could you use a ram pump in a fish pond just to move the water above the water surface to aerate the pond?
godzuki101 I have thought about that before and you would have to get some of the water flowing downhill to the ram pump and then pump it back uphill dropping it onto the water surface. there is water loss at the ram pump location So eventually it would lower the level of your pond.
I understand that this is be far a better way to pump water from a lower moving water source to any where higher but the waist water is more than am happy with, can you route the water back into water source . meaning if you did this from a water tank???????????????
in short, no.
I was meaning that water can be pumped to a higher place without power appose to a pump that uses power to do the same
YES you can
yes you can but its a little more complicated
you have to have another tank over the discard valve or a HIGHER PIPE over it with an open tank at top as high or hihger than the inflow area uphill.. to contain the water pressure from this height..it takes a few tests to figure this height..
this water REVERSES back into the pressure tank going up hill and contains the water..so simple ..people are silly
Does the waste valve have to release back to the earth? Can I divert it to another area?
What do you mean by another area? If you want to connect it to a pond where its elevation below the waste water level, yes you can. If there is another drop in the elevation, you could use another ram pump.
Yeah maybe to another pond or maybe like a flower bed. I just seems like water waste is a lot more than what the output is from the release pipe.