Grimer Only - Pokemon Yellow - Can I be redeemed?
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Rules:
1. Only my starter in battle
2. No items in battle, except held items
3. No glitches, exploits, save states, or RNG manipulation
4. No evasion moves before level 100*
Rule details:
-- *In gen1, evasion boosting is allowed if the Pokemon does it through means other than learning the move by level up or TM. For example, using Mimic or Mirror Move to boost evasion is allowed. (This exception is to keep ranking consistent with my legacy videos.)
-- I am allowed to manipulate my starter
-- I play the game at 4x game speed
-- For fair comparisons all my Pokemon have perfect (or near perfect) DVs / IVs
-- I am allowed to catch HM users - I can use all field moves
-- All in-battle glitches are allowed in generation 1
-- In generation 1, I'm allowed to skip Marowak with the Poke Doll
-- Surge's trash-can-puzzle is automatically solved
-- The bike is allowed in gen1, banned in gen2, and allowed for bypassing terrain in gen3
-- Saving between league members is allowed
-- If the solo Pokemon faints and I choose to blackout it counts towards my reset counter
-- I can pause the game and timer to take breaks
-- The footage is sped up / slowed down to match the pace of my narration
-- The ability Pickup can only be used if the starter has it
Patreon: / scottsthoughts
UA-cam memberships:
/ @scottsthoughtspokemon
Twitter: / psychicflying
Twitch: / scottsthoughtspokemon
Illustrations by / sarinavail
Thumbnail art by / brianlsart
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DVs / IVs: bulbapedia.bul...
Damage Calculations: bulbapedia.bul...
Gen1 Stat Calculator: pycosites.com/...
Gen2 Stat Calculator: pycosites.com/...
Gen1 Crit Rates: www.smogon.com...
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Base Stats: bulbapedia.bul...)
Mega drain doesn't seem like that far of a stretch. It's a poisonous slime creature, i can imagine it sapping the moisture from living creatures.
Also after a lot of thought Koffing and Weezing are basically poison balloons, that's why they can't body slam.
Still don't know why a goofy pile can learn it though.
Body slime
I vote for either making multi-row tiers as needed, or just give every tier a + and/ or - variant. You aren't even halfway through, you *will* eventually need more space.
The +/- has my vote as well. It will also allow you to better differentiate between 'barely squeaked into the tier' and 'dominates the tier but isn't quite good enough to move up'
thats a good point... whatever he chooses will need to accommodate over twice the number of pokemon that he currently has.
I was also thinking of +\- tiers. I understand that may make too many rows and it wont be easy to display cleanly, but theres so many pokemon that thats going to happen regardless
Acid armor is just "melt" in Japanese, and this move is used by Pokemon that could become more liquid-like/amorphous (hence, Vaporeon also learns it as theoretically its entire body seems to be made out of water). The animation is actually quite fitting.
IIRC - in the anime, when Vaporeon uses Acid Armour, it becomes near invisible (though, that may just be because it's a Vaporeon)
Came here to say this!
the fact that people seeing this and thinking Rom is glitched instead of having the knowledge that this move behaves like this in the original versions speaks for itself 🤦♂👨🦽
@@WeavileWesteh?
You could add an Lt. Surge tier. That would be above the Bruno tier, for pokemon that were generally inconsistent but not completely terrible.
Yes. Just yes.
I think someone on the development team associates Grimer with power plants. which explains why it can learn Electric moves. That's basically what the anime did by having a bunch of Grimer clog up a power plant, and then Yellow added them to the power plant as a reference to the anime.
Yeah, nuclear power plants, produce electricity and are full of dodgey hard to deal with, full of (radioactive) energy sludge
It's probably more a reference to the extremely toxic chemicals that were used in transformers for decades (PCBs) and many urban environmental spills are associated with these and other chemicals from powerplants and power stations
They have a lot of connections with factories too, which are usually electrically powered
E+ and E- are probably your best bet. If not that, you could add a slowpoke tier near the bottom.
Yeah! I think effectively an F- Tier labeled as slowpoke would be a good solution
It also implies that slowpokes are better than Bruno which is a mood hehe
Or a SS and SSS tier.
Jumped in the comments to make the same idea!
@@hikarimemeirooficial well, Scott wants to sort out the E tier without disrupting the S tier. I suggest adding a Slowpoke tier that sits above Bruno. That way it can keep the middle tiers tidy and the slowest where they fit best.
@@ScottE-2 That's a wonderful idea.
I honestly think Body Slam is pefect fitting for Grimer, it just needs to raise its body a bit and fall on the enemie. Like in the Anime vs Bellsprout (yeah, it was Muk, but its basically the same). Koffing on the other hand is a floating ball. You just kick it away. I mean Grimers weight is 30kg, so its pretty heavy vs small enemies. Koffing just weights 1kg, so 1/30th of Grimer.
Anyway great video. I also liked your gringy humor back then ^^
especially if you consider the later Pokédex entries (fr/lg) speak of "dropping their full body on top of their enemy" which would also kind of explain the paralysis with grimer/muk
Honestly I'm not sure if adding another tier is a good solution to the crowding issue. There's 14 Pokemon in E and 8 total tiers, so assuming a similar level capacity (similar sprite width for everyone), you get 108 slots. Even one more tier only goes up to 122. While adding another tier might still be a good idea to reflect the high finish time variance, it won't be enough for the tier list to fit everyone. I think you just need to use smaller sprites, honestly.
As for splitting the tiers, a Surge tier above or below Bruno could be nice. Probably below.
Oh boy, my favorite pokemon with the biggest happy smile is back - looking forward to this :)
Koffing is less dense than air, there's no way it can body slam. Grimer definitely has a body, it doesn't need to be a defined shape for it to count. Not to mention, the thing seems strong enough to "leap" with its arms, so that makes enough sense.
Koffing is listed at 2 pounds. It would be like getting slapped by a balloon, almost. Grimer is pretty dense. Listed at 66 pounds
Electrode, who also can't use body slam, has the density of Styrofoam.
If we are going to take it this far every Pokémon should be able to learn it and base the dmg off of its weight or something
Do you think Gen 1 could have actually handled the coding for that?@@BryanM86
@@BryanM86 no, just any pokemon with a big enough body. Ekans doesn't have as much means to body slam as Grimer does, for instance. Besides, I'm pretty sure body slam has a really large pool of pokemon that can learn it in gen 1 anyway
I would suggest to add a Lt. Surge tier and move all F tiers to it, and lower E to F.
I also support splitting the E tier up (unless you change the
I think those are some awesome ideas. A "Surge" tier would most certainly go just above Bruno, in most comments about him I've seen, the majority of people agree Surge is better than Bruno but not by a large margin. Also the Venomoth tier being above S-tier just makes sense for this channel as well. That Fairy/Ghost/Dragon/Steel type Pokémon is the most legendary OP Pokémon in all the Generations so far, it should be the highest tier of all. I hope Scott uses these ideas cus they're just brilliant.
idk if it was only me, but i did this and it would be so fitting considering how surge is just slightly better than bruno. i mean you could lose vs him - if you get very unlucky.
I still remember the old Grimer video, absolute cringy gold cant wait to watch this
Less cringe than someone calling something cringe
@@BryanM86cringe doesn’t have to be a bad thing! if the person knows they’re being cringy, they can embrace the cringe and revel in it
@@daniel6678 nope it is a bad thing lol
@@BryanM86 different strokes
Awesome job with Grimer Scott!
For the tier problems you’re having, it’s not an issue yet. We still have of Kanto to go. However, I think the most accurate solution for the list would be to shift the times and subsequent Pokémon as you get further into it. Doing this might not fix the problem immediately but the tiers have to fluctuate over time, sort of like a bell curve. S and Bruno are the most exclusive tiers so they should mirror each. A and F should mirror one another. B and E should be paired. Then C and D. That way it’s more percentage based instead of using time as a metric which will potentially leads to overcrowding. The math and final percentage on the bell curve can be what you want but 20% of all Pokemon resting in the C and D tier would make sense as that is the most average finish for your tier list. The next standard deviation is B and E which could both be at 15% of the Pokémon dex for the slightly better/worse than average. The A and F tiers could be at 10% of all Pokémon for standard deviation 3 for well above/below average. The final deviation 4 could be for S and Bruno each having 5% of the Dex for the most elite or the most terrible or impossible of the group.
To me, this would statistically be a better way to rank them, but it would shift all the times. However that gives C and D both about 30 mons for 60 in the average middle, B and E both about 22 or 23 for 44-46 in the slight above/below average, A and F about 15 each for 30 in the well above or below average, and 7-8 in the S or Bruno/Impossible tier for 14-16 elite and terrible mons. It would also give you another way to show the successes/failures of the mons by showing their performance on this bell curve.
Love your videos Scott and I can’t wait to see how the rest of Kanto performs!
I think adding a G teir or S+ would be the best way to do it. You could also add a surge teir between F and bruno.
Hey Scott, an option for the E tier issue could be to use Sigma (Σ) or Epsilon (ε). Both still look like E so wouldn't mess up the alphabetical order.
I think splitting up the E tier makes a lot of sense. I dont know all of the times, but the jump from 1:10 to 1:30 is a little weird when two tiers above it are cut off at 10 minute intervals. I know its supposed to convey... not exponential but like, parabolic growth? That doesnt sound right either. Either way, i think a tier about S would be the most elegant solution. Maybe you could do a "champion" tier or a "scott" tier to mirror how the bruno tier is at the bottom.
For the tier list changes:
My, admittedly limited, experience with graphic design has thought me that it is usually best to make several simple mock ups and decide based on those what will look best.
The simplest solution for E tier is probably just to split it into E+ and E-.
Makes complete sense to me why Grimer can learn Fire Blast: it's a Pokemon that you can find in the fire house (aka Pokemon Mansion). I imagine the devs were thinking if you didn't grab Charizard, and for some reason didn't have a fire type, getting a Pokemon from the fire house, literally right outside the gym, is the best place to use the gym's TM. Same reason why the fire gym is the one on the island where the player is REQUIRED to know Surf to get there.
To keep things simple (KISS) and consistent I'd suggest just adding the G tier, they're just letters after all. All other options add more complexity to the system than the data represents. This has the added benefit that you can just add another tier in the future if you feel you need to without today's choice coming back to bite you.
The second best option in my opinion is just keeping the tiers as they are and adding the extra line. If the tier as you defined it contains (or is likely to contain) significantly more elements than fit in a line, there should be no reason not to add it. I agree with you though, that the range of your current E tier is quite large and this is likely the reason why it contains so many Pokémon, so I consider this only the second best option.
You could just make the criteria for the E tier slightly stricter, so some pokémon will move down to F. Alternatively, you could make the D tier *less* strict and move some E pokémon up there, that would also make the bell curve a bit smoother. You also seem to have an issue with the B tier being very small.
Grimer’s back sprite is actually pretty cool! I don’t recall what Muk’s looks like, but i like how it starts!
Like a wave of goo iirc
Most disliked video on a video that still has almost 90% like rate. You're an angel Scott never change.
Almost every video is 98-99 so the low 90 hurt haha. My poor ego!
Just don't use letters.
Champion Tier
Elite 3 Tier
Earth Badge Tier
Volcano Badge Tier
Marsh Badge Tier
Soul Badge Tier
Rainbow Badge Tier
Thunder Badge Tier
Cascade Badge Tier
Boulder Badge Tier
Bruno Tier
No Badge Tier
I like this.
26:23 Yep, Lick is definitely super effective against Golbat and Arbok, lol.
You could do an E tier where if you click it, it splits into an E+ and E- tier.
I think shifting things into a new letter would just make it trickier to watch previous videos. Say you move Meowth into E+ tier. Its still an E tier, so its not too different from the previous videos. The +'s and -'s are also kinda already implied when you say stuff like high or low E tier, so it'd translate well.
Do what meteorologists do - break into the Greek alphabet. Lowercase epsilon tier.
That's mostly a joke. If it's a problem, I think adding a D+ and D- tier might work best, since it still fits the grading theme
I agree with someone below in the comments.
Add a "Slowpoke" tier below E for times slower than 1:20 or something. They arent "bad" they're just slow.
I actually really like when Pokémon have moves that don't make sense for it. Not for any specific reason I just like that quirk. Same with Rattata having most of the best moves available to it.
S+ should only have 1-3 pokemon and 3 is streching it. Maybe only tier 1 to 7 befort bruno tier. Or s tier plus 1 to 6
You number the tiers. S is tier 0, A is tier 1 and and so on. That's how we do it on card games. Means you can add as many tiers as you like.
a D-/E+ tier seems best, especially since current E tier is the only one with a 20min margin
The idea of Body Slam, if I'm not mistaken, is that the user uses jumps on the target to slam them under the weight of their body. While Grimer and Muk probably can't jump very well per se, I can easily imagine them attacking by crushing opponents under their weight. Koffing and Weezing can't really do that, since their buoyancy prevents them from really crushing anyone.
Tier list idea
S
A
B
C
D
E
F
Surge
Bruno
Impossible
For the tier list you can use Epsilon or Zeta or Eta from the Greek alphabet.
Give the E tier a second line, indent it by 2 slots, and don't put another E in front of it.
Backsprite reminds me of Grimace. He’s even purple to match
Random question, but with your classical music playing what music theory is prevalent? Do you play a lot of modal stuff, or chromatics, pentatonics, harmonic major/minor etc. I’m just curious.
Classical music is mostly tonal (major/minor) I personally like Romantic Era music so it has an expanded vocabulary featuring a lot of chromatic chords. (Neopolitan sixth, augmented sixth chords, augmented triads, upper extensions.)
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon sounds complicated lol
Like others have mentioned, I would do E/F and then change F to X or something.
Also, very happy to see my name included right below my favorite Pokémon on today’s video
Sabrina is very powerful in RB because Blaine and Giovanni is such trash in those games. Hell even Koga is pretty trash. Sabrina is supposed to come before them as Gym leaders but yet she outperforms them. She has good AI there too so she's better.
In Yellow less so, because Blaine and Giovanni are now much stronger. She's behind those two, about equal with Koga.
Oh yeah true. When you compare her to the others now it makes sense hahaha. Im blinded by how much I play Yellow. Thanks for helping me see!
For what it’s worth I enjoyed the first Grimer video!
Wouldn't you force geodude to struggle if you disable tackle? Or does Yellow work differently in that situation?
That would work, yeah. Struggle is 50 base power vs Tackle being 35, though, so maybe the recoil wouldn't be worth? Would have been cool to see a comparison.
Yeah, would have been a cool theoretical.
Disable also has terrible accuracy and it wears off unpredictably
Scott you were very cringe at first. I'm glad you stuck with it though. Now you're my favorite UA-camr.
I was
Hey Scott. I think just adding an extra line for the E tier makes the most sense. It doesn't require any reshuffling of tiers or weird stuff with the letting. It makes sense to me that the 1:00-1:30 area is likely the median of pokemon performance and I think it was inevitable that some tiers were going to contain way more mons than others. So adding more space to let them fill that area just seems natural to me.
Sabrina isn’t over-hyped because she’s good; she’s over-hyped because she’s got a whip 😏
The whip is her best feature
I think E1 and E2 make the most sense
Grimer? I hardly know her.
I figure Koffing can't learn Body Slam because it has a lower density than air. It would therefore need to be moving incredibly fast to strike with any kind of momentum. Grimer has a much higher density, so I guess it can Body Slam by surging.
While it might be a bit annoying, I think you should take whatever natural break fits most nicely within the E tier and split it at that point. The top part remains the "E" tier, the bottom portion becomes the "F" tier. Your current "F" tier would then be renamed into either the "Bruno" tier and you continue shifting things down to some newly named bottom tier (Awful but Doable?), or the new tier would sit above "Bruno" and might be something silly like "Youngster Joey". I like the previous option because it puts Bruno beneath Joey, but that's just a bit of humor at the hiker's expense.
Grimer is still my favorite Pokémon of all time, it's front sprite looks so derpy and happy, ready to give you a hug :)
Scott you can do a SS and SSS tier.
If you do simply decide to shuffle some of the time constraints and add a tier I would probably suggest doing what video games with mission modes do which is include a Super S (SS) ranking. I still think you will find the E tier shrinking if you simply do videos for the mons in that tier list that haven't been re-ranked applying what you've learned about Pokemon Yellow since you originally ran them or by running them in a modified state with moves they can learn in gen 2 or Stadium to give them an actual fair shot.
Giving Grimer and Muk both access to body does make sense or at least to me it does. I mean imagine how much that sludge has to weigh and how it would feel engulfed by "anime flash backs."
You remember Muk from the anime? That's what grimer using body slam looks like.
That poor Bellsprout.
@@shimauta1941 poor professor oak ;)
The solution for the tier list is obvious. You've learned a lot about Pokemon Yellow since you started these challenges and that means a lot of the Pokemon already ranked need re-ranking. The E tier will probably get a lot less crowded if you give most of the mons there another try.
Also some of them generally deserve to be considered for videos where they're able to take advantage of being modified to so much as stand a chance of getting out of the E tier.
Hitmonchan's stats being modified so that its Attack and Special are reversed so that it's not utter trash in this generation is one such example. Others should have the benefit of coming through the wayback machine from a gen 2 game or of being run with moves they could learn via Pokemon Stadium.
If the concern becomes any of the mons in the E tier gaining such an advantage that they'd jump up three whole tiers or something like that I don't think that's something that has much of a real shot of happening probability wise. We saw when you ran Surfing Pikachu that Surf only helps it balance out it chances of doing well rather than making it steamroll through the game.
Beyond this whenever I see the current tier list I feel awful that something like the wayback machined Abra doesn't get to make the cut and Abra thus has no choice but to hang out in the Bruno tier when everyone knows it has no business being there for the final form of the tier list.
In this video you mentioned how badly Koffing has it compared to its contemporary within the Team Rocket organization, yet there are ways to get it out of at least the Bruno tier via wayback machining it. Hi Psybeam, it sure would be unfair if a first stage mon could start a gen 1 run with you to balance out its chances of doing well in the long run for a solo challenge, wouldn't it? Said no one ever.
Pokemon being shockingly bad because of Game Freak's programming decisions can only be funny for so long. Whenever videos for mons bound for the last half of the D tier or the E tier and lower come around it's very hard to get excited because it becomes a matter of how "not horrible" can you make this mon's solo challenge go rather than "how can you make this mon shine to full capacity" in its solo challenge.
Similar things apply to some of the running jokes. Can only find bashing of Surge, Bruno, and Sabrina funny for so long before it becomes a dull meme-ing routine.
Using the wayback/time machine would invalidate the intention of the tier list, for the same reason why the runs using modding pokemon or the elemental punches abra do not feature on the tier list, it is to represent how well each pokemon can beat the game they are introduced in on it's own. The fact that so many are so low is actually a sign of good design considering you are suppose to have a team of six to beat the game instead of soloing it. The pokemon aren't bad there being exactly as intended for the game they are in. And abra absolutely deserves its spot at the back of the tier, it learns no attacking moves and needs tm's to learn any so therefore is absolutely at the bottom of the tier for a solo playthrough as it should be.
@@NerdKing2nd The fact the tier list is based inherently on finishing time rather than any of the other metrics that Scott tracks ultimately means a lot of mons are still in the wrong tier even if he only ran them completely unmodded, and it thus already unbalances things. Very rarely do the other metrics seem to count towards where he ends up ranking them.
I.E There are a few mons so far that he's factored how intuitive playing them was into their final ranking, but that's basically it. With resets they only seem to matter for final rankings if he can't significantly shave off resets by the time the run he's using to rank a mon is over.
I'm just gonna repeat here into the ether I guess that Game Freak's design choices can only be funny for so long. Also I like how you ignore that the elemental punches Abra isn't on his tier list, but the surfing Pikachu is.
@@shimauta1941 At the end of the day it is HIS tier list based on his playthrough's with real time as his choosing metric. Also pokemon stadium is part of Gen 1 so for that reason the surfing pikachu is valid for said tier list. It's also worth noting even if abra could learn the elemental punches in Gen 1 unless it actual starts with them then it would still be at the bottom of the tier list. I will admit to my own bias cause i admitted getting tired of people seeming to moving the goal post trying to make abra seem like a good pokemon, Alakazam great pokemon but abra fully deserves it spot at the bottom of the tier list for being a pokemon that would be a nightmare to use from the start on a solo playthrough. Also i believe the reason he usually does not count resets as a higher metric to try to reduce the amount of impact player error makes on the tier list.
3 Other options: Add an D- and move top E Pokemon to it. Add D+ and move current D to it and move Top E Pokemon to D or D-. Another Option is To make a DE or EF Grade.
I think at this point, with how many pokemon we got, the tier could be re-arranged:
S+:
I recall that Acid Armor was used by Vaporeon in the anime, which caused it to be able to turn invisible in the water. I thought that was so cool as a kid, it's part of the reason why it's my favorite of the three initial Eeveelutions (though I love all three). So yeah, the animation seems accurate.
Grimer did far better here than I thought it would, good showing!
Before watching:
Well, poison is really bad as a type in gen1. No really good, strong moves, not many types it does well against, and really weak against ground and psychic.
What Grimer has going for themselves is the high attack stat (for an unevolved pokemon) and its STAB and the Normal Type coverage move coming from the physical side. Sludge and Bodyslam will actually hit somewhat hard. And thanks to the Mega Drain TM, Grimer even has good coverage against all the rock/ground types in the mid to late game.
But the ridiculously low speed and special stat will really hurt it (special because of the defense issue).
However, in the late game, Acid Armor can really help thanks to the Badge Boost Glitch.
Honestly, I think the biggest problems will be the entire early game since Grimer learns just NO moves. Brock will be rough.
My guess: really difficult early game. But after a while, Grimer will pick up speed. Although frankly, it won‘t do much better than Koffing, so maybe mid F-tier, because the early game will be the same problem as Koffing and really, really slow it down.
After watching:
Low E-tier. Nice. A bit better than I expected. Set-up move is obviously great, combined with a really high offensive stat that can use STAB. So, for a first stage poison type, this went rather well.
I always felt like Grimer/Muk learning Body Slam made perfect sense... Large, heavy creatures with sticky bodies and grappling hands that could easily grab and slam something with all of their bodily force... It *really* doesn't make sense for the Koffing line, as these are basically just noxious gas balloons with no limbs for grappling. And if you're interpreting "Body Slam" as "Slamming into something with your body," we already have that move--it's called Tackle, lol.
That nickname! Okay, so, I don't recall when I got into the habit, since I don't think it was in my initial Yellow playthrough, maybe my first completed Emerald run, that I would name my Magikarp with the "Re-" prefix, starting with "Redemption", at least due to their evolution into Gyarados. (I might also think "Redemption" would have been for either redoing my Yellow save, or getting a replacement Emerald game pak on which I completed the game.) So, yeah, seeing that nickname, I can only think of my Gyarados carries~
I saw someone else mention something about a slowpoke tier, and it got me thinking. The tier between d and e is 1 hour 10 minutes to 1 hour 30 minutes, then from e to f is 1 hour 30 minutes to 2 hours. You could have everyone in the sub 2 hours just go to slowpoke tier, then change the new f tier to sub 1 hour 40, then the new e tier to sub 1 hour 20. So there's 20 minute gaps between e f and slowpoke, with bruno tier still being below slowpoke tier.
S
I mean, you could just embrace the memes and have a Lt Surge tier above the Hiker tier but below the F tier, then shuffle the bottom half of E down to F and F down to Lt Surge.
In the long run though, if you're able to get 13 Pokemon to a line of the tier list, and you're trying to do all 151 Pokemon in Gen I (plus surfing Pikachu), you're going to need at least 12 lines, which is going to get pretty silly if you keep it to one line per tier. You could just shrink the images so that you can get 19 per line (maybe 20 in case the tiers aren't all equal), in which case then you should be able to use the same number of tiers. Adding the Lt Surge tier would mean you'd only have to get 17 per line. Alternatively, if you're using more vertical space, I'd be an advocate for splitting some of the tiers into a high/low or plus/minus. Applying it to the A-E tiers would give you 13 lines once you add back in the S, F, and Hiker tiers, which feels about right. That many lines will probably still require resizing though, since I suspect that'll then struggle for vertical space. Up to you as to what looks best once you start playing around with it.
Scott, Consider adding, on every pokemon, a small "+" or a Small "-" for pokemon that were exceptionally good or bad in their respective tier. Although that doesn't DIRECTLY solve your E tier issue, it might make some of your suggestions more to your liking😊
I really liked imported cheese tier list. I don't think it helps you, but I think it's funny, and maybe you'll glean something or get a joke out of it. His tier list is
The NidoKingdom
S
A
B
Sea (due to the abundance of water types)
C
D
F
Onix
add "p" rank
Grimer and Muk is my fave poison type. Simple and gen 1 I know, but I love it. One of my favourite Kanto Pokémon. For some reason I always call mine Frank, it’s honestly just a random nickname. I came up with, but it fits him so well. I had a fantastic competitive one and omega ruby and because of that I have great memories with this boy.
Grimer does weigh 30 kilograms. Getting slammed by 30 kg of toxic sludge would probably hurt, so it having body slam makes sense. Honestly, he's not even the strangest choice of pokemon with a slimy body that can learn body slam,. Goomy is also slimy and gooey and can learn body slam, but he's much smaller than grimer than only weighs 2.8 kg.
After some minor number crunching:
-If you want no more than 14 pokemon in any tier (the current number in E tier), you will need a minimum of 11 tiers, and you currently have 8 (plus impossible, which are excluded from this analysis)
-If you want the tiers to accurately show time, you would probably need to add 1 tier above and 2 tiers below E tier so that the time difference between each tier above Bruno is no more than 10 minutes.
-Coincidentally, this would make 11 tiers, with S tier, 3 tiers each with a 5 minute difference, 6 tiers with a 10 minute difference, and the Bruno Tier.
As for what to name them, I'm not sure. S, A, B, and C would still be the 5 minute differences, as on the current list. You could then maybe go D+, D, D-, F+, F, and F- for the other six. Or maybe make C have +/- and no F +/- if you want to use US grading. And then, of course, Bruno.
This just leaves the issue of what happens if more than 14 pokemon finish within the same 10 minute window, in which case, the options would either be to add tiers such that each tier represents a 5 minute difference (which would make an insane 17 rows), or accept that some tiers may require a second row. It all depends on how future-proof you want this tier list to be.
I ALMOST love the og grimer video FOR the cringe enough to be the first to hit dislike this video but I can't do that to my man Scott! Wild to think you had like 1,100 subs or less when I came on board, the kantodex contributors weren't even all accounted for yet lol!
Oh man… I watched a piano tutorial before this video yesterday and slowed my YT playback speed to .5x…. I forgot and when I played your video I thought you were talking slow on purpose because you were upset about playing with Grindr again and in pain 😂😂😂😂 seriously listen to the intro at .5 speed and it is GOLD
Nah man, remember in the anime when Ash's Muk would constantly "cuddle" everyone it could catch? Imagine doing that offensively instead of playfully and there you've got Body Slam.
Man, Sabrina wrecked me as a kid. Granted, I had a team of Venusaur, Beedrill, Haunter, Graveler and Pidgeot. I had no answer for Psychic types. I didn't realize that three of my Pokemon had poison as a secondary type haha.
If you don't like the idea of a G tier (which feels the most intuitive thing for me personally) I think you should add another joke tier below F, give Bruno some company. Maybe Lt. Surge deserves some recognition.
If you need to add a tier at the bottom but dont want a "G" tier, do a Lt. Surge tier.... not quite bruno, but bad enough. Neither of those two could beat anyone. F is still the tier where they can get through the game but slowly, haha. In reverse, you could do an Agatha tier instead of S+. She seems to always be the 1 trainer to give you the 1-2 resets on a second play through run. Imaging if she'd use a 6th pokemon. F tier currently def looks like a Lt. Surge tier. And your current E tier looks like a lot of them can be "F" tier. Most had to be in the 70's to finish the game. Should be easy to split that up then.
Well, ranking and grouping isn't always so easy, there are no correct answers. You could keep the E tier whole, thus keeping the simplicity, or you could split the tier to maybe Ea and Eb for accuracy.
TL;DR: Splitting groups doesn't always look nice, but has been done elsewhere. I'd lean towards splitting E to subgroups.
Splitting has been done in other fields too, because world isn't quite as simple as we would love it to be.
This brings to mind TNM-staging of cancers, and breast cancer in particular is a good example, as it was lectured just yesterday.
TNM staging system assessess the size of the Tumor, the nearby lymph Nodes that are involves, and if there are Metastasis in the body, and combine these elements together to make a Stage classifications for that cancer. It predicts the nature and mortality of the disease, and how successfull treatments are.
In the beginning, TNM-staging used to be just T1-T4, N0-N3 and M0-M1 for pretty much all cancers, but newer staging standards have split many of the groups to smaller subunits for individual cancers, like T1a, T1b and T1c in breast cancer (among others). T1-T4 has always described the rough size of the tumor, but the new subgroups depend on things like the finer sizes of the tumor or their placement.
The revisions to staging has been done after getting more research data, so they've been able to make better prediction models with finer scale to the impact of each element. Better groupings lead to more and better Stage classifications, which give better predictions to the nature of the disease, and guide the clinicians in making better decisions in choosing the treatment for it.
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Now, YOU got more and better data, and some groups are starting to look bloated, and there's a lot of deviation. There might be a valid reason to split the E group to finer groups, if adding letters doesn't look good to you. Elevating other groups doesn't seem like a too good idea. But do keep in mind that normal distribution does appear in a lot of places, it could just be a bigger group. :)
I think body slam is more like, lifting and slamming the opponent's body, thus Grimer having arms allowing that over Koffing's armlessness. At least in professional wrestling terms, that's more what a body slam is. I'm certain there are pokemon that completely destroy that line of thinking. Tackle and Pound are more like what I'd imagine you're thinking of, the using pokemon throwing their own body into the enemy. But clearly pokemon gonna pokemon, and trying to apply real world logic to it isn't going to end well.
Scott: "Sabrina is so over-hyped, she's really not that dangerous."
Sabrina: defeats Scott more than anyone short of Agatha.
Apparently she took that personally.
I like Grimer a poison type gets access to Fire Blast but Gligar a ground type DOESN'T access to mud slap.
The logic makes no sense.
Hahahahahaha
I always imagined Pokémon that could learn and use body slam did more of a “cutter” or stone cold stunner if they couldn’t physically pick up their opponent visually. Therefore grimer is cracking beers after every body slam
What I do when I grade something is that I have -, regular and + except for F and S.
Alternatively since you have a Bruno Tier, maybe you could have other tiers like that like a Champion Tier or a trainer who feels like the personification of mid.
It's been said before, but adding "+" and "-" to the tiers helps out so much without needing to really make a drastic change.
Also, this means you have a ton more tiers available if you need them. You can even use all three to have the max, example being "A+", "A" and "A-"
You should split the E Tier up like this:
The better ones from the current E Tier stay in the E Tier.
The worse ones from the current E Tier move down to F Tier and the current F Tier moves down into a new Tier between F and Bruno which is called the Lt. Surge Tier.
Edit: Damn, someone already said that, didn't scroll through the comments before commenting myself.
I would change the time limits of most tiers:
E.g. S < 45
45 < A < 52
52 < B < 1:00
1:00 < C < 1:10
1:10 < D < 1:20
1:20 < E < 1:30
1:30 < F < 2:00
I would not change S and Bruno tier, because the best and worst omes should still be highlighted.
(as to your issue with the ranking board....correct me if i'm wrong but why not just....change the timings at the end and set it to >1:15 for the D tier? (granted that wont fix the problem for LONG. but it would push the issue for 3 more runs potentially.
0:48 No, that's not *nice* at all. 😆
As for the tier list, add an F- tier for the current F and split E so the bottom half is in F? Though in principle, I don't think it's strange to have tiers with high populations when there's nine of them for 151 pokemon and you know they're not going to be evenly distributed.
S - 50, A - 1:00, B - 1:10, C - 1:20, D - 1:30, E - 1:40, F - 1:50, Bruno - 2:00, impossible - DNF. this is keeping in mind someone's comment that you have done 60 pokemon with 90 to go. so the tiers are gonna get bigger. having them ordered might just have to be good enough.
I’m having a hard time rearranging the tiers without overcrowding them. The best I can suggest is rearranging the times a little bit. I’m not exactly sure how, as I cannot see all of the times to say how effective this might be. Best I can suggest is E tier to 1:20, F to 1:45 and Bruno above 1:45. This may generate a bit more space. But again, as I cannot see all of the times, I cannot predict the success this may have. Perhaps slightly taller tier box and slightly smaller Pokémon so you can double staking them, or you may need to remove the image of you and the Pokémon to make it wider and shrink the credits.
ua-cam.com/video/lJAtCbTjIbc/v-deo.html Vaporeon using acid armor and turning invisible. apparently that's just what Acid Armor does
You could rename the F tier to Z or F- and make
I mean... You could always end the tier list with "J" & "K" tiers which can be just as meme worthy....
Or you can edit your times for DEF so more in E fit into F.....
As far as the E Tier space problem, I think you should do a multi-row for it: after all, many tier lists adopt that method, and you will likely eventually have to address this same issue for other tiers as well, so.. It might look jarring as first, since you're not used to it, but I'm sure you'll eventually get used to it.
Firstly, great video as always!
Secondly, think it would be best to split the E tier down the middle into "E+" and "E-". I have seen it done with other tier lists for tiers that get too big. While it would look more visually appealing if each tier was split that way, its honestly not too bad imo. Alternatively, you can tweak the times for each tier, but I personally have gotten use to them and quite like how easy they are to follow at the moment.
I think that it's fitting that the E tier is getting full, E is for Everyone after all.
"S+/SS" tier doesn't feel as good as an "A+" tier added right below S. It's the same top end adjustment but keeps S tear feeling special.
Koffing's body is mostly gasses, it doesnt seem like a body slam from it would hurt very much. Grimer is a thick blob of stinky goo, I wouldn't want to get bodyslammed by it either. I would probably be too grossed out to move & have my speed reduced
"Alright, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us... they can't get away this time" -Lt. General "Chesty" Puller
If there is one pokemon that needs an ability to make normal moves poison it's the grimer family. Body slam? More like slimey slam!
Edit: I think there should be a new tier since between D and E there is a 20 minute difference. Make a tier so that there is mons at 10 up to 20 and mons from 20 to 30 minutes past the hour.
What would happen if you adjusted D tier to be between 1h and 1h15m, pushing the upper limit by 5 minutes? This would mean that D tier and E tier both cover a 15 minute range.
What about Oak tier for the leading tier? Also pretty disappointed with no Mario reference in this video.
Last grimer was cringy but funny! 😂