Ladder 1 GET OFF THE ROOF!
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- Опубліковано 6 кві 2007
- Ladder 1 venting the roof at a working fire in a 2 1/2 story wood frame in Paterson NJ on 4/7/07. They were ordered off the roof by command as heavy fire blew through the vent hole they just cut.
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Betcha the last guy off the roof was the engineer... He was thinking "Ain't NO WAY I am doing paperwork for losing that roof ladder!" Coulda/ SHOULDA just gotten down, but a WELL DONE for saving the equipment!
why would the engineer be in the roof ?
On my dept, all 'drivers' are 'engineers'. That said, the first in truck splits the crew, the Captain and one FF go in for search, and the Fire Apparatus Engineer and the other FF go up on the roof to cut a vent hole, if needed.
The driver is the guy responsible for the gear on the truck, ultimately, so he was saving himself some paperwork by making sure nothing happened to the ladder.
@@IrishPipeSmoker Excellent question.!!!!!
Open it up and get off, textbook overhead vent. Fire blowing through a hole you just made is totally normal, in fact its a good sign that your vent hole is doing what it should. The heated gases ignite when they exit the hole and get the oxygen to burn.
I've been in this field for over almost 20 years and I've never seen ONE house worth ONE firefighter's life. Not one. Yes it WAS someone's home and it sucks that it's being destroyed by fire but the reality is this; I don't ever want to have to explain to someone's family that their loved one died for an empty and probably insured home because they got on a roof that was not only on fire but disintegrating under them. It's stupid and useless especially in South Florida where that roof is going to have to be replaced anyways. Sorry, not criticizing this video, just our tactics as firefighters in general.
I agree. I've been on for just over 3 years and that's exactly what my father said to me when I told him about my first real interior fire attack that we had lost control of and just about flashed over in my probationary year.
With 30+ years when I hung up my boots I TOTALLY agree. Lives are one thing. But homes can be replaced. Stay safe and God bless brother.👨🚒❤
@@michaelswinehart2788 I agree !
Risk alot to save a lot
Risk a little to save a little
Risk nothing to save nothing.
But Unfortunately things happen its the nature of the beast.
@@engineco.1494 AIN'T THAT THE TRUTH !!! WELL PUT.
I don’t know what job you have been on for for 20 years but it gave you no experience. That was a safe roof opp the boys opened up and got off when told to. Oh boy saw some fire they must have been near death huh. Fake firemen like you make me sick
@2:00 Standing on the edge of a building, lowering a big heavy ladder, flames at your heals. like a boss!
Roof ladders are neither big nor heavy. That ladder doesn't weigh much more than a couple gallons of milk.
Just saying, those ladders are made to be as light as possible for obvious reasons. Aluminum is lightweight and strong. Planes and high end sports cars use the same aluminum as a fire rated ladder
Very effective vertical ventilation. That vent hole is doing exactly what it is supposed to do.
For all the experts posting here,venting a roof does a number of things1.It allows heated gas and smoke to more quickly and safely exit a burning structure(seeing as how heat rises) which in turn makes a little bit cooler,visible and safer inside the structure to either begin a fire attack(putting water on a fire in a poorly ventilated room can create hazardous superheated steam)as well as for search and rescue efforts(makes conditions inside more survivable for trapped victims)
4 guys working a burning attic, 3 right on top of the fire. That fire chief like one of their wives.
who ever had command over this scene needs to learn how to read smoke before they get half their company killed.
roof ladder is the one that they carry down. it's designed to spread weight on the room so you don't fall through (unless the whole roof caves in of course). It hooks on the top of the roof and you stand on it.
Very cool and calm crew getting off..
I'm a British Firefighter and I find it absolutely astounding that anyone thinks this is a safe thing to do! One of the guys actually slid down the roof from the roof ladder to three main ladder. Incredible and very lucky!
Ikr hopefully everyone is ok 😢
I don't actually think they thought it was safe..they were doing what they thought necessary.. at peril! Their objectives are the same as yours!
No wonder so many guys are killed over there , absolute nuggets
Why, why do they cut open the roof and not have a jet with them??? Basic firemanship.
For a second there I thought that was a snow covered roof. Pucker factor 9000.
GREAT VIDEO! Very Nice Truck Work! Paterson Ladder 1 "Looking Good!"
YAY Command! And the last guy saved the roof ladder too. Good job guys!
I wasn't there I can't armchair QB it but except for having only one ladder for egress, and that ladder being blocked by a guy on said ladder, great job guys. If you make a vent and fire is coming out like that, don't freak out, it's a good thing, means all that fire and smoke has a place to go, instead of spreading out and surrounding members. Good job Ladder 1.
Nice job with the vertical vent. I bet the engine company was probably getting hot up there, and I agree with you fireinsyde the fire is supposed to blow out like that, that is why they are up there in the first place.
The whole front room on the AB corner was fully involved. Give credit where credit is due. Ladder 1 did a great job and so did the first arriving engine company. The fire never got worse then what you saw in the video.
Surprise surprise! Lots of youtube fire critics, don't listen to the internet jive, you guys did a great job
yeah at the rate that siding was going, they would have fell through soon
When you send 3-4 guys get on the rooftop take about 5-10mins destroy the roof ....instead using that time to spray the water inside the house...with the water pressure can spray more than 50ft away
Venting.
Working so hard to "save" structure that will have to be torn down afterwards.
This is a text book operation performed on a routine basis by the PFD....... is it dangerous.....Yes.... all aspects of firefighting are dangerous......But this nothing out of the norm for a busy professional fire dept. Heat is being removed.....so interior lines can be stretched.....the attic ceilings are being pulled by another Truck Company and you can see the fire is extinguished shortly after the vent hole is made.
@John Cocca Man there are some dudes here that dont know the job. I was the Safety Officer at this job ,with about 30 years of experience at the time....The Department has had thousands of jobs like this , we knock them off like clock work. In New Jersey all the major cities operate this , as does New York....Run of the mill job ,nothing abnormal. And actually I dont recall Command saying get off the roof....I looked at the vid and I dont think that is what was said...I could be wrong or missed it ,but I know the Incident Commander well and we had no particular problem with this job., I also know members of the Ladder Company well and it was a routine operation for them...They are a very aggressive company and the busiest Ladder in the city ...They get tons of work.
The new "Houston, we have a problem".
you can argue fire strategy and tactics all day long. but in this video, these truckies did a nice safe job. hopefully they sounded firmly as they got onto the roof. everything looks smooth and safe. im sure they were ready to come down just as the chief was yelling on the radio to get off.
the only thing is saw that i thought wasn't needed was the 3rd guy on the roof. it made maneuvering difficult in that small area.
stay safe fellas
Great job letting the fire out of a balloon framed home.If It wants to blow.. let it blow through a hole. Great stuff.
Other than not having a secondary means of egress, it looks like a pretty textbook vertical ventilation. Good job.
Secondary means of egress is typically on the opposite side of the roof from where members are operating.
So it may have been in place just not visible
Gotta love the Vent Hole! Just look at that Chimney effect...A ton easier for restoration, too. Better to replace the roof than to build all new sticks again!
That last dude to come down is an animal. To be standing on the edge of that steep ass roof wearing all of that protective gear and manhandling a section of ladder that was impressive
@LWPD327 how you see it now is how it looked once it was out. crews immediately went to work inside on the fire once the hole was cut. it was rebuilt a few months later.
@2jetskis Im emergency services myself hence the 999 in my screen name. my main gripe is not the fact that there on the roof, but as seemingly with all these vids, there seems to be very little else going on in the way of ACTUAL fire fighting. i realise we dont see everything on these vids but it does seem to be the thread in many of them that its a hell of a long time before any water is put near the fire. i even heard a comment on a vid of a church on fire saying same.
I could never do that job. These dudes are brave men.
You vent to clear smoke, reduce heat, and allow the team inside to attack the fire. You can not walk through a wall of 1200 degree heat to attack a fire, so venting the roof allows the heat that has built up to go UP, which is what heat does. The heated air going out blocks oxygen from coming in for awhile, usually long enough for the team inside to hit the fire and bring it down. And no, you don't put firemen on a roof above a fire that has burned for a long time. Structure isn't sound.
That's a proper ventilation job... it's supposed to let out all the smoke - if it burns outside above the roof, then great. The interior crews are that much safer. There was no need to be ordered off the roof, the guys' task was accomplished and they should have been on the way down anyway. The commander panicked when he saw orange. Shame on him.
Drilltowera, I can respect that everyone operates differently Even in America It's tough to find 2 departments that operate exactly the same. But you should realize theres a reason why we do things the way we do them. Look up Baby rescue Theres an excellent video of some guys doing a vent enter search in Ohio and they pull out a baby that lives. They make some mistakes namely one guy that climbs the ladder ( does not enter ) i does not have on hs helmet.
The BALLS these guys have!
To help protect the crew that is inside...venting the heat , smoke, gasses....etc....The best way is to vent over the fire is you can.
Anxiety 💯 this is why it takes the strength of heros. Wow
That roof looked spongy even in the beginning
very well done, good venting.
Stop playing last man off the roof. Being heroic is not what the job calls for. Being professional means every man off the roof pronto. Not every house is worth saving. Too many firefighters have suffered injuries or lost their lives due to poor decisions in situations similar to this. No heroes please.
@smokinredss Your original comment was that Paterson has no truss roof construction. I also do not need a building construction lesson either. Most of the new construction being built in Paterson is light weight truss construction.
@SpartanicalSystem You are correct in that it adds Oxygen to the fire. That is why venting needs to be coordinated with an attack by a Engine Company with a hose. The Truck Co vent will release the smoke and heated gases which makes it easier for the Engine Co to A.) Have increased visibility in the compartment due to the release of the smoke, B.) The release of heated gasses and smoke will also cool the compartment down for better working conditions for the Engine Co.
After watching this video, it was apparent that the was gonna " vent " within moments. The chief should have seen it. It was ready to bust out on the top floor also. With this on tape, I found as a chief, that cameras were certainly can learn from, including myself. It's a dangerous job, but i loved it so very much !!!! God bless ALL firefighters out there. Past and present.
Heat rises. Open the roof, give the heat a way to escape. Blast water into the seat of the fire, below the roof. Water comes in, steam and bad stuff escapes through hole at the top.
by venting, you reduce the chance of backdraft and/or flashover. and if you see flames comming out of the vent, is because the hot fumes reach oxygen on the outside and ignite by themselves
@granvilledrummer You obviously weren't paying attention. One of the firefighters set the roof ladder onto the balcony as they come down.
@Livraddarn it vents the hot air inside so that inside is alittle more tolerable for those fighting the fire inside
@Livraddarn Unfinished attics are usually vented naturally anyway so there's no way to starve it completely. Ever notice the vents in the eaves or peaks of a roof? The bigger hole firefighters cut lets more heat out and at the top of the roof.
@titaniumr33gtst Its not just one crew working. The engine has stretched a line, and is going inside, and the truck crew goes to the roof to vent. Inside its very very hot, and you need to release some of that heat for the engine crew, so they can get to the main body of fire. Its all coordinated, and performed like clockwork. The fire is not getting enough oxygen in that amount of time to do much. Fire out of a vent hole is what you want. It means its not burning to either side.
venting the roof is to make an interior attack more bearable for the engine crew...lets alot of heat and smoke out, yes it does somewhat feed the fire until you can get windows vented but ultimately its done to prevent flashover
Where I come from, we vent and then pull the ceiling from the floor below to fight an attic fire. Fighting fire through your vent hole is not a good idea.
@woodmeister85 so which side of your theoretical trench cut would you support? looks to me like this attic is a little too small and just a tad too envolved to make a trench cut feasible.
just my two cents.
Glad to see our finest in action but plz be careful men .
Nice job fellas..... we started using a sledge for roof vents....shounds dumb but works effectively well.
In my 20 years in the job it hasn't failed yet!
You have to vent the roof to let the smoke out and let air in slowly, otherwise when you go in to put the fire out and you open the door, the fire sucks in so much oxygen that it literally explodes and could blow you clear across the street
Worried about that ladder. The hell with it. I’m sure the city can afford another one.
Good call by Command. He had situational awareness that those on the roof did not. Two guys up is standard, but stuff happens. roof ladders aren't just for steep pitched roofs, but to distribute weight on the roof.
Nice video and great job by the crew. Some safety concerns with the number of people on the roof and no one heeling the ladder but got the job done.
Ikr hopefully everyone is ok 😢
You are right...so why would you get on the roof where all the heat is? Cross ventilate ! The temps drop and you go inside with an attack line and a TIC and get the job done!!
Time to go back to the academy and do some ladder drills.
Why the hell do you say that? At what point would you say this truck crew fucked up? Please elaborate
And by elaborate I mean please be ready for real firefighters to shit on you
Not the same “Wackerville fire academy” as you
with the amount of manpower in front of the ladder you couldnt really tell if someone was footing the ladder or not
cont. venting also reduces the chances of a backdraft,rollover and flashover inside the structure by allowing the heated gas,smoke and fire to be vented out of the building instead of stayng confinedto the structure wher eit can get hotter and hotter until such conditions occur.And lastly,though venting hs the POTENTIAL to feed a fire with fresh air to growor draw a fire to otherwise yet to be burning areas(if done to far frompoint of fire) a properly done vent helpsto greatlysslow fire progress
ya when you dont get good ventilation thats when firefighters die one of the first things they teach you in firefighter 1 is how to cut a 4x4 hole in the roof to let out all the gases when the fire comes out of the hole its a good thing when all the heat and gases stay trapped inside a flashover will happen and thats a bad thing try beeing in a unvented and vented house and see what one you want to be in and they wasnt in a rush to get down they did there job and was going to the next one
@kerethan
It's called ventilation. When the house is on fire, the roof is almost always ventilated.
Nice job guys well done.
Nice and clean vent operation. Didn't like too much the part where they lower the roof ladder though... Where were the ropes?
They fight some fire in Paterson! Hell yeah.
Why no exposure line on B side building? Fire building was lost at this point.
@ArmyStrong891 There are two components with fire fighting....Engine ops & Truck ops.
Engines carry hoses & water & put out the fire.
Trucks carry ladders & tools & perform support functions for the engine companies.
ie:ventilation is TRUCK work.- TRADITIONAL search & rescue is also TRUCK work.(although,life safety is EVERYONES responsibility and thus an engine crew may also perform this function)
Hoselines are ENGINE work.
@200JLH its really a two man OP. one to cut, one to monitor conditions/ provide stability to the cutting FF.
@ArmyStrong891 as far as i know there is interior and exterior, basically interior fights inside and does the ladders while exterior fights the fire from the outside. im sorry if this information is wrong but im only an explorer and do training atm
I understand the whole procedure they wish to accomplish but for a roof vent 1) why didn't they use a cutter's edge or K-12 power saw 2) why such a huge crew of 3 FF's to cut a vent hole. its really a 1 man operation
@xlxjus10xlx As my previous post indicates, i accept you cant see all thats happening, but as stated as well this is a common thread in a lot of these videos, crews seem to take ages to put a jet on.In this clip even when vented and fire is thru roof and coming out side walls there is still no water being put on this now developed fire.
Theye did have a roof ladder in place. Good vent job.
@ffjsb a truss is a truss is a truss. truss construction has been used for a long time in bridge construction but not house construction. this house that is on fire and 95% of the houses in Paterson are built with rafters. traditional lumber not lightweight truss or truss construction
@judsonwhitley Are job is to protect property. If they would have taken a line to the roof and attacked the fire through the vent hole it would have pushed the fire back into the building. It also would have steamed the engine crew inside.
Vertical venting actually doesn't add that much oxygen to the fire, if it's done properly. If it's directly over the fire, and it most certainly was in this video, the force of the superheated gas and smoke escaping upward keeps O2 from moving into the compartment which would result in an explosion called a backdraft (which happens from horizontal venting).
When hot exhaust air is let out, other air is pulled in.
What's the thing you HATE DOING THE MOST ? For me, it's ventilating the roof with an axe or saw !! Getting the 4x4 right, finding the joists, all shitty !!
Roofs has rafters, floors have joists, walls have studs.
i noticed that when he vented the roof, the smoke that was around the roof just went out the vent. id like to learn more anyone give me any tips?
@datzfast....considering there were exposures all around this house you wouldn't "let it burn". Property conservation my friend is our job. They rebuilt the 2nd floor by the way. House was not a total loss.
true. exposure prevention would also be a concern. as well as firefighter safety, water sources, hose pressure, bystander interference, and everything else going on at that scene
@danwat1234 You have to be able to see, and venting keeps the temperature down inside the structure. However venting with no water is bad
drilltowera: It's a dangerous job with inherent risk's..Thats in chapter 1 of the book i recommend you should read...our tactics are aggressive because you don't save lives and property by standing on the front lawn with a master stream drowing the fire. And those fallen firefighter's you mock for dying...They died doing the duty they were sworn to do. Don't you dare try down playing the sacrifices they made.
I cant tell is thear a ladder placement in
another section of the roof
@knightsaber67
it appears that you have three rungs above the roof line however, they wouldn't have gotten the angle they needed if they wanted more rungs over the roof.
from the view of an outsider I would say this was a Keystone Cop operation. Lives needlessly put in danger for some crappy old house. The roof could have collapsed and the roof was also very steep. Someone could have easily gone for a slider down the roof and to their deaths. There has to be a better way of venting a roof. Come on inventors get thinking!
ok :-)
+Philip Carroll That's why sometimes if it's to bad they just use the truck's deluge to "Blast" a hole in the roof
not really, if he/she could carry a 200+ pound rock up and throw it down with enough force than just maybe
Rocket Launcher? xD You would think they would be able to set a small explosive charge up there somehow but that could possibly take the whole building down I suppose.
yeah they check the roof for weak spots but many times the check isnt enough to truely answer if the roof can hold your weight, and also with a fire burning like that, it wouldn't take long for the roof to struggle to hold your weight.
All the newbies take note of the eves puffing and the amount of fire coming out the hole. You have a good attic fire going, but wait.... theres more....look at the upper 1/4 of the wall where the siding is melting. See the fire in the wall, thats called balloon construction. Most likely they're chasing something from below. Good stop by the crews, its starting to get managable when that hole is clearing up.
i dont say we dont vertical vent it just was a really dangerous risk by looking at this scene size up, i wouldnt have put my firefighters on that roof. stay safe.
Correct in my opinion. Very steep pitch, too many up there, I could not see the sense in it, not a very large building anyway. Take care and god bless all Firefighters.
Nice hole fellas. Kudos.
@SpartanicalSystem at that point 90% of the house is lost anway and whatever is left standing is just going to be demolished. so the idea of that fire growing isnt too big of an issue. plus at that point the idea would be to put the fire out, not save the house. if it were a room and contents fire, then thats a different story
how would you do it?
@smokinredss excatly, the vent team lets out steam and smoke for us ol nozzle guys.
Do they use water in the USA to deal with fires?
Is this a blooper cut from that old movie "Roxanne"?
@ Truck officer 15 ....... we used an ax in the roof until we came upon this device Ventilation Footing Device it attaches to the roof ladder. I must say though we only send two onto a roof less weight less risk of life. The advantages of vertical ventilation by far out weigh the risk in my opinion.
Have to look into that...I've often thought that it was silly to put up a roofer and then the first thing you do is jump off the damn thing. Sometimes it's needed I get that, but it would be nice to have a reliable measure of safety when you do. Know what I mean?
Bravo and props boys. That was a close one.
Respect.
Most common related death now days, heart attacks.. another related death is vehicle accidents responding to calls, especially with volunteer firefighters.
u cud tel the condition inside that attic space just by the fast/turbulant smoke