If I remember correctly, also deathslingers used to do this. Back in the day, the deep wound timer would only pause if you were in chase. After the first hit with his gun, they would follow you backwards until you went down. Running did not stop the timer back then.
I would love to see a rework that allows the legion to "fake repair" generators, which reduces the generator progression and gives it the undetectable status, so it can fake being a survivor, which leads to him killing innattentive survivors.
To be fair people also whine and complain a lot when going against nurse, easily S tier in the hate department because if they have your scent you’re screwed, like just die on first hook and hope the next killer doesn’t hate the community enough to play as nurse.
I was one of those survivors tbh as you could literally be the best survivor player in the world but moonwalking legion would down you no matter what so it was literally an unfair op killer as there was no counterplay no matter how good you were. Once that was fixed leg has been fine and is imo fun to play and play against.
I have a theory that Legion were originally supposed to be Ghostface-like stealth killers who in their stealth mode would pretend to be survivors in order to get close to you. In Scream series, Ghostface was an identity claimed by multiple people, so it would make sense to have multiple people as the killer. All Legion members have masks and their weapon of choice was a knife, just like Ghostface. But then BHVR got the actual license for Ghostface which would create a conflict of similar powers, much like with Hillbilly and Bubba, and had to hastily repurpose Legion to a bunch of speedy teenager stabbers, hence why the chapter was such a disaster and why teaser showed something completely different from what we got.
I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case. Like no shame ofc, but Legion was certainly very hasty in it's release, from what I've seen, since I wasn't around for their release.
Yeah, but its more believable that a medieval killer would have access to ancient powers (derived from The Entity) to summon loyal followers than a modern group of teens/young adults
It would be cool to "summon" two members that have a radius like a drone and when step in it the AI Legion chases you or you could teleport to it. Yea. Basicaly you can hold down three areas by teleporting to the different bodies.
I bet when they made the trailer for Legion they wanted either to make the multiple person killer like The Knight is now, or wanted to do the disguise route that people have suggested for ages. Maybe BHVR saw how much of a task that would be to program, so they instead made the Legion that we all know now
I feel it's definitely partially that, but also the fact that SWFs with comms completely counter it. I think BHVR made the trailer with that "imposter" concept in mind - but then remembered a little too late that SWFs exist and would completely gut Legion's power, so they had to just throw something else together. It makes me sad that we may never see a rework to make Legion a little more interesting. Their recent rework helped some, but not nearly enough.
@@saccharinescenery I mean, VHS has this as a mechanic for all killers, and vhs also has pinging system effectively making solo q as responsive as swf can be. It doesn't seem free to play vhs had a lot of problems with making the killer run around as survivor for a bit before popping into the killer (basically preventing that game start patrol with zero gens done and then suddenly hearing the one you walked by get done meaning they were just hiding), and some sort of communication like pings should have been implemented a long time ago, because you can't really nerf people playing with friends - you buff the lacking part of the problem.
I feel like it wouldn’t have worked too well anyways. In addition to how everyone saying SWF would counter it. How would disguise even work? A survivor with a hoody would be hella sus if you even knew legion existed. On top of that, what if all 4 survivors are wearing cosmetics that look nothing like legion. Or they are all the wrong gender.
The first time I unleashed Legion in my friend's custom matches they were all oblivious to their abilities. And thus, I proceed to tell them that I could disguise as people and get close to them to warrant a hit, sabotage gens instead of repairing and emptying chests. They were disappointed after they saw me running at Mach3 for the entirety of the match.
I think it's far too late to turn legion into a multicillar. However, I think they can make cosmetic changes to really make them feel like a legion. The other members of the legion, whose cosmetics you could customize, could be seen and unreachable areas of the map. Hanging in trees, standing on the wall of the map, and watching and threatening survivors.
Basically act like decorations, maybe have some random dialog when survivors get close. Some funny and some threatening to add some emotion and charm to them
The thing is I don't think they can actually appear at the same time, there's that Frank image of him looking at himself in the mirror with the other members in the reflection that makes me think they can't even see each other physically. At least, we weren't proved otherwise since we've never seen more than one of them being out at the same time. This idea is absolutely cool tho, they made the legion kinda dirty
I love this idea, having them move about the edges of the map or even having them up on structures jeering at and making snide comments towards the survivors and encouraging and egging on the Legion in the trial. Would certainly make them feel like more like a team and kind of sadistic.
Honestly, the Knight's power is much more fitting on Legion than it is on Knight. Julie, Susie, and Joey are way more integral to Frank's lore than the Pack are to the Knight's. Yes, Tarhos' entire reason for traveling with Vittorio was to raise money to free the pack, but their relationship pales in comparison to that between Frank, Julie, Joey and Susie. The fact that each member of Legion is relegated to skins while the pack are an integral part of the Knight's kit (and mori) is a travesty. Even from a mori aspect, Legion's is extremely weak, yet their lore clearly explains what it COULD have been in the description of how the killed the store cleaner, with Frank stabbing the survivor in the back, Joey in the ribs, Julie in the chest, before Susie went for the throat (probably without Frank's assistance, since being in the Trials would mean the Entity had gained influence over them).
While the Legion are definitely devoted to each other, I'd say it's the other way around. They're not devoted on the same level as the Knight is to his summons. This is a dude who was a slave mercenary, earned enough money to buy his own freedom, and then continued serving as a mercenary specifically to raise enough money to buy the freedom of his friends. He literally raised an army to free them. They're the only people he has any true devotion towards, and likely he's the only one they have any true devotion towards. By comparison, the Legion are just four BFFs who got peer pressured by each other and their leader into becoming murderers.
Hard, hard disagree. The Knight's Pack literallys wore themselves to Tarhos. Julie, Joey, and Susie only followed Frank out of fear. There's a big, big difference. I understand wanting the Knight's kit for Legion but trying to undercut his lore isn't the way to do it. The Pack and Tarhos are essentially blood brothers and he fought tooth and nail to free them from their bondage. The Legion is just a bunch of sycophants afraid to rebel against Frank because they're weak minded teenagers. Despite what Legion mains like to believe, the Guardia is a better gang than the Legion ever was or ever will be. Accept it and hope for a rework.
@@jrich436 How do you even know that, there's barely some lore about the legion in the tomes, that mostly talks about julie's perspective and a bit of Frank's. From what I've seen they're just a group of friends, two might be afraid of the leader yeah but they still seem pretty close
I genuinely do not understand the current hate for the legion, I get PTSD and trauma from the past when he used to be worse, but I'd rather much more go against the legion than a spirit, nurse, dredge, nemesis, and artist.
@@JonahBoing his zombies feel very cheap to go against, especially with certain addons and they're very random, most favoring people who don't gen agress
@@moboatz as a Nemesis player, I agree I just like zombie doing random stuff. I fought a hacker once and even when he had max speed he still got hit by a zombie
12:50 They excluded matches where survivors dcd from the killer stats that were recently released. So their kill rate is likely higher than what was shown.
@@calhoot3577 but that's not the point. because dc's are excluded from the stats. the point is that games where survivors give up without dc'ing are still counted. that means that the actual killrate would be even lower and the stats aren't accurate anyways. what did you misunderstood that made you talk about the dc penalty? just curious. btw the dc penalty is gone now, but it was there when they took the data for the stats.
@@rubygarnet6220 My point is that noone used to die on hook back then to throw. it was always a DC. at that point in the game there was no DC penalty. OC was right on the money. The amount of people dying on 1st hook against Legion back then to get out of the game was basically 0. Such an infinitesimal amount, it's not even worth taking into consideration.
I dunno how healthy it would be but I would love to see a reworked legion start out looking exactly like the other 4 survivors and their ability is to put on their mask (maybe giving some sort of sound cue while they're doing it) I dunno how add-ons would work but the disconnect between the trailer and the gameplay has always been really silly to me
Swf already has such a massive advantage over solo q. An ability like this would be lethal in solo while being pretty much useless against a team that communicates. Sounds really unfair.
@@kaib6998 yeah I hadn't really thought about swf. I like that people have the ability to play with friends but it feels like it throws a wrench in SO MANY killers' plans
OG Legion needed 4 hits by default and only 3 hits with Frank's Mixtape which was usually combined with Cold Dirt which reduced the fatigue duration by 0.6 seconds which means you could get your power back even quicker. And on top of that you only had to recharge 10% of your power before you could use it again. Their power did not cancel after a missed attack so you could run faster in Feral Frenzy by continously lunging. Back then they could still see blood in Frenzy which made Bloodhound a nice perk for them and made moonwalking even more obnoxious. OG Legion had no counterplay, without addons they were extremely weak but with addons they were Nurse tier.
The old days when Legion with addons was the undisputed tunneling king, and thus the most toxic thing to ever play against (all 4 survivors just get Mix Tape + Cold Dirt tunneled to death). OG Legion was bafflingly broken to the point where it's hilarious how fast everything about that addon combo was nerfed.
Didn't you forget to mention the infinite mending exploit. Where it would not allow you to get the status removed even though you were mending multiple times. I think two tapes or a blade + tape caused this, they had the tapes disabled for a week or two because of it.
How it worked was one made it take longer to mend initially, the other made it so each time you mended it took longer to mend the next time, the deep wounds timer still ticked down while mending and eventually mends could take about 16 minutes, also the only way to reset the mend timer back to something somewhat reasonable was to enter the dying state and get picked back up. No mither players ate very well that week.
If there is one thing I've learned about dbd players, it's that unless the killer has trapper gameplay they will complain about it being too strong or boring to play against and even then, those traps could use a nerf
@@symphony_in_152mm2then we need more survivors like you. Because most survivor mains would do a review bomb to ask the devs to nerf the weakest killer in the game just for shits and giggles.
Imagine them nerfing the trapper The pig nerfs aren't silly enough, the Billy nerfs weren't overkill enough, you want them to nerf the weakest killer in the game? God, yes, I hope they continue nerfing every character who isn't the blight, the nurse, and the spirit. What a terrible take.
@@C7S123R8P0M3the ACTUAL problem with DBD players is that if one killer isn’t as strong as the top-tier killers then everyone assumes they suck. To this day everyone claims that killers like Myers and Pig suck when they consistently rank on the higher end of kill rates. Currently, Myers sits above Blight and Pig is only slightly lower. NO killer in this game is bad; they all just have varying levels of usefulness and required skill. They all NEED to have some form of counterplay, and, like killers themselves, that can have varying degrees of difficulty for survivors. People tend to dislike it when killer powers can be countered successfully and thus claim that they suck. Blight, Nurse, and Spirit are all top-tier killers but they have viable counterplay in most instances and require more effort to utilize whereas a killer like Wraith, while still having counterplay, has been promoted to a very low-risk, high-reward state of gameplay.
There was perk where you can put your terror radius on you obsession. What if legion did that but change the look on the survivor when he does this. Like making a decoy with a survivor.
This power would be difficult to balance in a game where people use comms (discord, teamspeak) what if a survivor could only start hearing your terror radius once you hit them? like, you look like a regular survivor but THEN you are considered a threat.
@@ciromarin5716then point emotes would be one common as a identifier. If you approach without emoting from a distance it's obviously the killer. Otherwise just keep away
Before the dredge released I had an idea for Legion that utilized all 4 members 3 members start in lockers scattered across the map. By selecting a locker from a distance with the secondary power button (like teleports Freddy) and entering a locker you would switch the the member in the locker on that side of the map. Survivors entering lockers with members in them would be stuck for a few seconds, applied with deep wound and be highlighted by killer instinct
I don't have any problem with them as of thier recent changes, to play as or to play against. Honestly if people say they are the "most hated" it somewhat doesn't make sense as there are many popular Legion mains out there (Tatariu, Hewie, PotatoLegion), and many more in the community like to play Legion. So sure one can say they are hated lots, but they are enjoyed lots.
I mean the singularity is hated too (at least in steam reviews) for being slow, clunky, and difficult to use. However I think it might be the most overpowered killer in the game and the easiest to win with.
All the best Legions I go against are very good at traditional looping. They have a knack for catching you off-guard because you're assuming they are using frenzy when they are in fact, not.
Applying deep wounds on everyone without a second thought isn't an effective strategy. Applying deep wounds to everyone you can, and commiting to a chase when you need to is what being shown to us in the gameplay.
I personally really like the idea of a killer whose power is getting access to survivor movement tools. It's really cool and stylish to see the legion do that one handed vault
That's a very common misconception about Legion's trailer. Nobody thought Legion was going to be a disguise killer at the time of their release. Their trailer released a few weeks after their launch on PTB meaning we already knew what The Legion was like. What a lot of people did speculate was a killer with multiple personalities. At the time we got a few teasers and one them showed multiple names scratched onto a wall with a single person looking into a mirror (which we now know as Frank) that had 3 other reflections behind him wearing different masks. Another thing you forgot to mention is Legion didn't need to wait for their power to fully recharge back then, they could activate Feral Frenzy when it just at 10% charge.
He also forgot the infinite mend legion which was the real reason ppl hated legion as he could make mending take minutes at a time and it would only increase the time it took the more times u had to mend
@rasenkiddxiv9365 Infinite Mend was only a thing a few months after Legions release. They already had quite the reputation before, but it gave people another reason to dislike them
I think in the trailer of "The Darkness among Us" chapter, now it looking like The legion running with 5 Feral Frenzy Hit with "Undetectable" status effect to 20 rank David King who still thinks he is just another survivor! :D
The good ole' Leg Funnily enough, in their PTB I felt fear for the first time in a long while as the image of a guy running at me with a knife seemed like the most realistic killer design to me and genuinely made me go "of shit" for the first couple of matches
As someone who has been in the game since Nurse, I can confidently say that Legion has been my favourite killer in lore, aesthetics and mechanics ever since Deep Wounds stopped lowering while mending. They are fun, fast, jovial and cruel. They are frenetic, their power is an unholy toolbox deck of information, mobility, slowdown, pressure and more. They were for a long time an insurance policy against salt. You can't be called bad or a scrub if you play a low tier killer and win ;). Their rework was one of the best thought out ever, as good or better than Leatherface's. Ryuga, Tatairu, Potato and more have brought me hours of joy. Thanks for showing the other side of the argument, even if I disagree
As someone who really looked forward to playing legion when I got the dlc, the power reads in a way that makes it seem like you almost have to play with a hit and run playstyle to utilize it but you really quickly realize that you just are not actually getting anywhere, and need to commit to a survivor after deep wounding them from feral frenzy if you want to make any progress towards victory.
you kinda only want to chase the other frenzy hits if they are close enough, yes better players will spread out but sometimes that dont and thats a mistake, so its up to you to play it right
Feral frenzy is fun to use and its easy to outplay, just dont group up like helpless sheeps and just press w if you are that boring. Yeah imagine shroud as others, which dummy will fall for that? Maybe on new players it will work but that power sounds fun on paper, in practice it will get old waaaaaay too fast. You survivors complain about fcking everything, only happy when something goes your way, literal child behavior XD
The thing with creating a disguise killer is that they immediatly become powerless the moment the survivors are on comms, and BHVR kew this and couldnt make the design. Considering when they were added, something like The Knight wasn't yet feasible, so they put it on the backburner. What I think happened is that they left it for so long they couldnt really rework it into what they wanted without completly changing the whole power, which in turn would upset a lot of people who had spent time learning the killer in the previous state. The closest I can imagine is keeping Feral Frenzy the same, but allowing the Legion to "swap out" by checking lockers, with each member having different minor abilities (one has aura reading, one can vault faster, one higher base speed etc) that affect how survivors can loop them, meaning they have to adjust how they play and keep track of that. If a killer prefers one power they cna keep playing without swapping out on their fave. Even then, that would mess with cosmetics a lot so it will never happen.
I think legion is the perfect opportunity to make a killer that has multiple abilities that you can choose from before beginning the game. Basically each member of the legion is their own killer with their own ability but they all share the same skins so you can make plays based on the survivors not knowing your ability or trying to guess your ability.
I recently discovered a killer test which tells you what killer should be your go to, and no matter how many times I take and and put in different answers depending on where I am in the game it always tells me legion should be my main killer. And after watching this video I fell as though I might be hated for it but I’m still getting legion
I also remember that the mending timer didnt pause when mending, so you would just get stabbed multiple times, get out of chase and get down before you could even mend fully
I think you forgot to mention that most people kept hating Legion because of the perk rework that buffed Thanatophobia and using Sloppy Butcher along with the Legion Pin addon made it so frustrating to do gens, which took 10 seconds longer and still to this day, after the Thana nerf it's still good only in the two killers that benefit the most of it being Legion and Plague.
sloppy butcher is kinda counter intuitive when using the legion, but it can still work if no one is broken, but honestly when i play killer, my fun comes first and if i feel like it maybe ill make sure they have fun, the survivors that complain are just bored, that or its 2 hard for them to play against, i like how legion is now, i played survivor back when legion came out tho
@@deyontemyers4109 since no one bothered to answer you, old Thanatophobia was a 4% repair speed slowdown per injured survivor (total of -16% repair speed if all 4 were injured) it was commonly paired with Pentimento (-30% repair speed) and Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain (-16% heal and repair speed after getting unhooked and healed) so a Legion or Plague could easily keep you at a -46% repair speed unless you took the time to cleanse every totem.
I wish Legion had Knight's power, or at least had the other members somewhere in the trial, watching you work, instead of just being skins... Still love Legion regardless of how bad my Susie is, because running at moch speed is fun, and nobody knows to not heal...
I remember when I played him when he first came out I accidentally did the chase without chasing strat constantly because I would stab someone get stunned and couldn't catch up until they bled out
I actually really enjoy the Legion, especially the way they are now. I guess it depends on what part of the game you prefer; a lot of killers and survivors actually love doing chases, which Legion are perfect for.
@@darkartsdabbler2407not even close, almost half of the killers chases are less run, artist, pyramid head, nemesis, chucky, dracula, demogorgon etc because they have extreme antiloop
Love your content dude. I was binge-watching your survivor academy videos last night. Wish you still did those where people send footage of there games to you. But I love these information videos too.
I’ve been a legion main for about 3 months now and I know my character sucks ass but I still have fun at the end of the day and I’ve rarely only encountered dc’s when it’s a bad map or they just rage quit out of going down
I‘m acctually a Legion Main and I remember a friend telling me that I behave much different than to a "usual" Legion main, since I just apply deep wound and keep chasing that survivor like normal. I don‘t quit the chase, but rather keep going. Idk… I mainly play them/Frank because I just really like him and the lore… and so far the survivors didn‘t dc or anything. They seemed to enjoy the game so far.
When playing as survivor, I frequently find it obnoxious when killers have kits that completely counter base level survivor gameplay mechanics. Like, making pallets and windows useless just makes chases and trying to loop the killer impossible. And if there's no way to win a chase, why play? It's bad enough that wiggle mechanics are worthless unless you have a perk build designed to make it doable. You can nail every skill check and still only make 50% wiggle progression. But, when the killer's kit makes it so escape isn't really feasible, it really ruins the experience. It makes it so stealth is the only option, and some killers, that's not an option at all.
My rework idea for Legion. Legions power now has a passive, the other members of Legion will spawn across the map, and they will injure, but not down survivors if they see them. They work similarly to the Knight detection radius except they are undetectable unless in chase. HOWEVER, they will not chase injured survivors without an addon that makes them chase only injured survivors. The reason being that the [PLAYER] Killer was chosen to have the fun of killing the targeted survivor. Addons would effect the passive power, changing what the legion members do. For example certain tapes could cause the Legion members to inflict deep wound or expose instead of injured, or reveal the survivors with aura reading. Legions active power would cause all survivors that were injured by the Legion members to be exposed for 45 seconds, and have their auras revealed for 15 seconds when used. I'd rename it [Hunt Down] or something similar.
you've prob been hearing this a lot, but this style of video is amazing!! the exact kind of thing I wish I saw more, so thanks so much for these!! dbd analysis is so interesting
I thought the main benefit of modern Legion was gaining information on where the other survivors are through the special vision Frenzy gives you, and you basically nullify the survivor's ability to loop you through the use of good add-ons like the one that lets you break pallets on vaults, or the one that reduces the amount of slashes Frenzy needs to down someone, making chases much shorter because you need fewer hits while also not wasting time worrying about pallets.
I really like that the add-on changes made using Frenzy far more useful. I certainly wish there were more to The Legion, especially since Behaviour seems to have a preference with the characters. Why give them so many cool skins and even a comic run in the works and not even rework the power to be more interesting and desirable for both sides to face?
Seing how many diffrent ideas for how legion should work there is, I got idea where every member would function diffrently, One for all-on hit and run, the other one for ambushes, another one for stalking and someone for blending as survivor
I really like Legions Power. If they ever want to Add a Killer who can Mask themselves as a Survivor and then switch into Killer Mode, they should make a new Killer out of that. I wanna keep using Feral Frenzy and Chain Hits and all of that. I really like it. They could however increase Legions Movement Speed a Bit and also increase duration. Also they could reduce the Mend timer by either adding Skillchecks or making the Deepwound deplet faster. Also as far as i know the actual mending time is just 8 seconds and not 12. But you can increase it up to 12 with Filthy Blade. But i don't know for sure
I think a cool change would be to have all the legion members playable by having them hide in random lockers at start and you could hide or change between them by going to a locker. Bonus: Whenever a survivour trys to hide in the locker a legion member is in. They pull them in kinda like boogeymans ability but if the killer doesn't get to that locker in said amount of time. The survivour comes out and that legion member in that locker is stunned and can't be changed into for an amount of time.
Same problem that you were describing about the false 50% killrate applies to Skull Merchant. On paper she's amazing, but so many of those are people DC'ing or giving up *eyeroll*
I looped a legion for like 30 seconds, they then proceeded to tunnel me, slug me, then face camp. The worst part was my 3 teammates were working on the same gen and and let me die on first hook.
@@NotAbritishGuy I mean yeah if you think about it I only have 1500 or so hours on dbd and p63 claudette, but I still definitely play like a player with 5 minutes in the game lol
@@PumKat666 the finished a single generator in 2 minutes and all three of them were on the same gen, they then proceeded to crouch walk towards me from across the whole map and just watched me die.
Honestly, I just bought and played them a bit, I love it, I even watched the trailer and just loved the look, it's like someone was in the fog so long they made a deal, despite the rep i still love being nice, like my last match, I left the last one alive who tried to unhook instead of a guaranteed escape so I let em win, and I lost badly on alien and they said hi so I said bye and just took one then basically waved em off without swinging, I love friendly play it's so funny to me
the worst part about the legion is that they are angsty teenagers. Somehow that just makes them lame from the get-go. You have badass plagues, serial killers from movies, creepy clowns....angsty teens.
@@NotAbritishGuy if you look at clown in this game with his lore and design, and DONT think he's creepy, then i think there is something wrong with you.
I do remember the glitch The Legion had where the more they use feral frenzy to give survivors constant bleeding effects the longer the mending goes like you could potentially get a mending that costs 2 hours to complete mending
You forgot to mention when they changed mending went from being in the Terror Radius to just running. Legion/other killers after hitting a survivor with BT. Would use undetectable to remove their terror radius and make them bleed out
I think Legion still needs a major overhaul. This would be a great chance to give the Legion a unique tertiary ability depending on the killer you are playing. They should all work the same at their core, but have different visual effects and cosmetics, which would add even more personality to the 4 killers.
You mean something like having: Frank: Faster recovery at the end of power Susie: Smaller terror radius Joey: Faster run speed while using power Juilie: Can vault windows and pallets faster. Select the corresponding mask of whomever and get their buff. And to switch characters, change the mask in the customization tab(so we keep both add-on slots)
@@Kdawg4859 I was thinking more of a trick weapon, cuz if they all get different functional abilities, BHVR is bound to fuck it up given their terrible history of balancing. With the ideas you proposed, Frank would be the standout meta pick since his power would lead to faster downs and shorter chases.
@@thethiccdonut5257 A trick weapon? Of course, Otz idea of legion having gun should totally be implemented. On a serious note, I feel like this idea would be such a mess to balance even as a joke but would fit legions character so well.
@@thethiccdonut5257 Faster recovery as in just give my man his 3 secs back instead of 4.......sheesh even a 3.5, Nothing too too crazy lol. 😅😅 just something small to give them all a unique identity im sure bhvr can figure out something to give em without affecting the power. I much rather prefer a whole new power/rework tbh. The last time legion looked like a cool killer was the trailer 💀
@@forthelolz1121 Well to take most of the variables out, they should all operate the same exact way and have the same animations TIMES, but have unique skins and animations to each character.
I started when Spirit came out and last played the game right before Pyramid Head came out. It has been fun to listen to your coverage of timelines of changes to the game. So much has changed since then
As a Legion main I call it skill issue if survivors give up just by knowing they're going against a legion. They say Legion Is a weak killer, yet they quit if they hear legions terror radius? Definitely skill issue. Myself like going against legion and the least fun killer to me is the clown but I sure don't fricken rage quit lol.
Yea I just don't understand people's logic of calling certain killers being "terrible" yet they still die from them while the killer gets 4k without even "tunneling". Right now is the same problem with Skull Merchant, she's really strong with chase pressure and information overall. I play Spirit, Legion, Sadako, and Skull Merchant. Majority of my matches I get 4k, won against P70+ with skill issues really.
Yes legion is low tier but the killer is not fun to go against you always have to heal/mend overall people just dont like being spam hit all game and being forced to mend 24/7
Anyone who wanted Legion to be a mimic type killer, or still wants a mimic type killer, needs to remember one thing: You are worthless against a SWF if your whole thing is deception.
It’s funny to think that people say a shapeshifting killer wouldn’t work because of a SWF and act as if every killer needs to be the next nurse, but they’re too ignorant to realize that a killer with a unique and fun power could also have a secondary attack, map pressure, etc.
@@therealkhobe I mean this is kind of the problem with the argument “a shapeshifter killer wouldn’t work because of SWF.” While you are right, I did say that a killer can have more than one power to them. This would cover up for its weakness against SWF’s. Also, not everything has to be competitively viable.
an imposter killer would be so much better. Like a killer that could make itself look like different killers, and survivors. Like you see a clown and think I'm good and then boom it is not a clown and your plan on dealing with it is over.
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I've been playing Legion for a while now and I haven't had much issue like that, once in a while someone leaves which doesn't bother me much. I just like how simple they are and I usually played it in a casual, sometimes I'll go slower and give the survivors a chance if they start struggling.
i dont know bro i really love the full anti heal build im playing with never sleep pills and runing hiting and hiting while the insane chase music is playing and then taking the down with the fith hit watching everyone injured not doing gens and taking the first down while im on edge with the satisfaction of all this speed running omg is just awesome
crazy idea Delete Legion as a Killer, make Julie, Susie and Joey redeemed survivors and change Joey (the leader and only one of the group that enjoys killing) into a different killer entirely bonus points if Frank becomes 'The Imposter' killer like they were originally teased as
not true, impostor works regardless of comms, ur just not smart enough to think straight. the killer can turn into imposter form every 30 seconds and mimic any survivor of the 4 including their outfit and items. unless the swf keep asking who the killer is every second and stick together every second which is impossible, the survivor are stuck with keep guessing if their friends are real. and all it takes is a spit second to hit before the other survivors even have time to guess anything, with comms or not. and the constant fear that your friend is actually not your friend every time you see them adds to the advantage. Grabbing from gens would be so much easier, when u act like doing gen with them, even if 2 of the same characters are spotted, the sheer confusion and time wasting of who to run away from gets u a hit anyways, ur especially more powerful if the swf tries to be funny and load all 4 of the same characters with same outfit, they will be dead and traumatized even faster.
As a brand new player as of yesterday i fell in love with playing the legion immediately and i have had at least one disconnect almost every game and now i know why ;-; this feels so sad
If theres one thing ive learned about the survivors on here is that no matter what you do. They will hate playing against you, you can be friendly, not camp and play well enough to get 2-3 sometimes 4 kills and they will still hate you. They only have fun when they escape with barely any competition and then they t-bag and draw out the game. Survivors dont ever care if the killer is having fun but I always try to make sure theyre having fun by not camping or tunneling.
I'm cherry picking but I have had games that were total wins for me only for survivors to tell me in the post chat about how much fun they had, even happened one time with Legion (probably noobs that didn't know any better.)! I treasure those moments lol.
I've always suggested that Legion should've changed three ways in the forums. A. That deep wound should function more like a health bar between injured and dying state, removing the bleeding out timer. Stabbing the same survivor twice in a row would fatigue legion but not of they were bouncing back and forth between multiple survivors. B. Removing mending and just making it healing. Legion removed say 33% of a survivors health, the survivor is at 66% of health and need to heal what's been removed. C. Lastly a bit that you didn't mention was how Legion was promoted. They're 4 teens, you could argue that the trailer with David just shows Legion's Athleticism, speed and ability to vault like a survivor, but the core aspect of Legion being 4 teens is all boiled down to cosmetics, which doesn't even matter much, consider the two sets of voices and not much differences in the physique of the characters. Many say that that Knight's ability matches Legion's backstory but I'd go more with Nemesis' passive with it's zombies, Just have the other 3 teens walk around only able to do a small chunk of damage on a Survivor's health if they hit, announce to the player the Survivor has spotted and have them walk around the map randomly, chasing survivors for some time, if 3 AI killers is too much right off the bat, maybe have them join with a generator fix and an announcement and marking for survivors to know where the AI Legion is spawning, maybe have a series of Add-ons adding the AI Legion Members sooner, or even letting the Legion player swap places with an AI at the price of a lengthy cooldown.
An Among Us type of killer would have been a lot more fun. Maybe one where they'd use some sort of illusion power to show up as a different player each time (either randomly selected from the existing players or a completely new person). Bonus if while disguised they could pretend to heal you (but actually once the bar finishes you are downed). Another fun gimmick it could have had would be the ability to "trap" survivor bodies once hooked, so if a player rescues a trapped hooked survivor, the hooked survivor switches places with the killer. Yes, the rescued player still gets rescued, but the rescuer now has to face the killer. I feel like these skills would also fit a lot more with the name of the killer, "Legion". With so many impersonations you actually feel like you're up against a legion. Good counter play would have probably consisted of a buddy system, thus reducing the killer's effectiveness since he'd approach alone and be instantly identifiable, but at the same time would mean players are easier to find and less generators get worked on at the same time. Though with the added bonus that any generator that does get worked on gets more progress. Rescuing would also be a lot more of a risk&reward type of deal, same with trusting someone to heal you. At the same time survivors can use the killer's teleporting against them, teleporting them to a hook to get them away from other players. A lot of fun designs could have been had with a character with a trailer like that and a name like Legion. Current state feels like he's just a random murder hobo.
If the legion swapped with a rescued player then legions would abuse the frick out of make your choice to guarantee first hook deaths, cuz ain’t no way anyone is gonna go down to basement if there’s an even smaller chance of making it out than of a bubba was camping.
I play the legion as a killer and I don't think he is that bad. His frenzy should have a longer base time because the maps are really big for him. But all in all I like him.
Wait 2018?! Damn. I remember waking up one day before school, I got myself a frozen Mac and cheese dinner for breakfast, and sat on my bed and watched a Noob3 video on the legion. It was the day they released on PTB, and I had no idea that they were a thing.
Honestly the image of a killer chasing after a survivor by running backwards aggressively is hilarious
"the moonwalker"
That’s called the Michael Jackson Tech, or MJ tech for short
Muzan chapter
If I remember correctly, also deathslingers used to do this. Back in the day, the deep wound timer would only pause if you were in chase. After the first hit with his gun, they would follow you backwards until you went down. Running did not stop the timer back then.
Yeah but the problem is there is no counter-play and made me mold so much being on the receiving end.
I would love to see a rework that allows the legion to "fake repair" generators, which reduces the generator progression and gives it the undetectable status, so it can fake being a survivor, which leads to him killing innattentive survivors.
@Trolling U You can still reduce gen progress
@@twinzzlers Why bother standing still watching a bar go down when you can just kick it and it automatically goes down anyway
@@sublover6768there's 4 of them, make it a minion that Does it
@@wt1664 the minion can get kicked off by survivors
are you realy discussing what would be funnier standing still or flying around the map like mosquito and hitting survivors?
“a killer that avoids pallets and windows is so unfair!”
nurse : 👁️👄👁️
To be fair people also whine and complain a lot when going against nurse, easily S tier in the hate department because if they have your scent you’re screwed, like just die on first hook and hope the next killer doesn’t hate the community enough to play as nurse.
@@JohnDoe-pb3xn true, the only counterplay against nurse is for the community to treat other killers well
Nurse is a easy GG. All you really have to do is bait the teleport.
@@Humicide-_-and what if the nurse mindgames the teleport
What are you gonna do now survivor main xd
Everyone seems to quickly forget the Nurse when they complain about another Killer.
Ah yes, I remember loading up my Legion games and immediately have 4 DC's when Survivors knew who the Killer was. I really like the rework though!
Problem is they are still absolute aids even if definitely nowhere near as bad as the OG.
Had a streamer quit with his 3 man swiff and jip me of my iri addons lmaoooo. I was MEAG BLOWED 😂😭
And here I was SWEATING my ass out on Plague to get 4 DCs never actually getting more than 3 :(
He was a dc on sight. ON SIGHT!!
I was one of those survivors tbh as you could literally be the best survivor player in the world but moonwalking legion would down you no matter what so it was literally an unfair op killer as there was no counterplay no matter how good you were. Once that was fixed leg has been fine and is imo fun to play and play against.
I have a theory that Legion were originally supposed to be Ghostface-like stealth killers who in their stealth mode would pretend to be survivors in order to get close to you. In Scream series, Ghostface was an identity claimed by multiple people, so it would make sense to have multiple people as the killer. All Legion members have masks and their weapon of choice was a knife, just like Ghostface. But then BHVR got the actual license for Ghostface which would create a conflict of similar powers, much like with Hillbilly and Bubba, and had to hastily repurpose Legion to a bunch of speedy teenager stabbers, hence why the chapter was such a disaster and why teaser showed something completely different from what we got.
that’s fair homestly
I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case. Like no shame ofc, but Legion was certainly very hasty in it's release, from what I've seen, since I wasn't around for their release.
But Ghostface came out waaaay before Legion was even teased
Nah nevermind I'm wrong lmao
Ghostface: June 18th 2019
Legion: December 11th 2018
but they only have the mask licence not the one for ghostface no?
Absolutely agreed
The fact that there are four Legion members and they didn’t think of having “multiple” killers until making The Knight is astonishing.
Technically nemesis is multiple killers.
Yeah, but its more believable that a medieval killer would have access to ancient powers (derived from The Entity) to summon loyal followers than a modern group of teens/young adults
@@Tebbulator none of it sounds believable. It doesnt make any more sense than anything else 🤷♂️
People who main Twins: 👁️👄👁️
It would be cool to "summon" two members that have a radius like a drone and when step in it the AI Legion chases you or you could teleport to it. Yea. Basicaly you can hold down three areas by teleporting to the different bodies.
I bet when they made the trailer for Legion they wanted either to make the multiple person killer like The Knight is now, or wanted to do the disguise route that people have suggested for ages.
Maybe BHVR saw how much of a task that would be to program, so they instead made the Legion that we all know now
I feel it's definitely partially that, but also the fact that SWFs with comms completely counter it. I think BHVR made the trailer with that "imposter" concept in mind - but then remembered a little too late that SWFs exist and would completely gut Legion's power, so they had to just throw something else together. It makes me sad that we may never see a rework to make Legion a little more interesting. Their recent rework helped some, but not nearly enough.
@@saccharinescenery I mean, VHS has this as a mechanic for all killers, and vhs also has pinging system effectively making solo q as responsive as swf can be. It doesn't seem free to play vhs had a lot of problems with making the killer run around as survivor for a bit before popping into the killer (basically preventing that game start patrol with zero gens done and then suddenly hearing the one you walked by get done meaning they were just hiding), and some sort of communication like pings should have been implemented a long time ago, because you can't really nerf people playing with friends - you buff the lacking part of the problem.
Disguise is such a bad idea. SWF instant ly counters it
My theory is they didn’t want to make them an imposter type of killer because they hope to get The Thing someday and it would get that power.
I feel like it wouldn’t have worked too well anyways. In addition to how everyone saying SWF would counter it. How would disguise even work? A survivor with a hoody would be hella sus if you even knew legion existed. On top of that, what if all 4 survivors are wearing cosmetics that look nothing like legion. Or they are all the wrong gender.
Mannn I remember that disappointment when legion wasn't actually an undercover killer. Great vid again, love this series.
The first time I unleashed Legion in my friend's custom matches they were all oblivious to their abilities.
And thus, I proceed to tell them that I could disguise as people and get close to them to warrant a hit, sabotage gens instead of repairing and emptying chests.
They were disappointed after they saw me running at Mach3 for the entirety of the match.
wooww that's funny and awesome. they got the trailer experience
I think it's far too late to turn legion into a multicillar. However, I think they can make cosmetic changes to really make them feel like a legion. The other members of the legion, whose cosmetics you could customize, could be seen and unreachable areas of the map. Hanging in trees, standing on the wall of the map, and watching and threatening survivors.
Or like nemesis zombies
Basically act like decorations, maybe have some random dialog when survivors get close. Some funny and some threatening to add some emotion and charm to them
Dang, I love this idea. It would make so much sense and be such a fun element for their trials. It’s almost shocking this isn’t a thing.
The thing is I don't think they can actually appear at the same time, there's that Frank image of him looking at himself in the mirror with the other members in the reflection that makes me think they can't even see each other physically. At least, we weren't proved otherwise since we've never seen more than one of them being out at the same time. This idea is absolutely cool tho, they made the legion kinda dirty
I love this idea, having them move about the edges of the map or even having them up on structures jeering at and making snide comments towards the survivors and encouraging and egging on the Legion in the trial.
Would certainly make them feel like more like a team and kind of sadistic.
Honestly, the Knight's power is much more fitting on Legion than it is on Knight. Julie, Susie, and Joey are way more integral to Frank's lore than the Pack are to the Knight's. Yes, Tarhos' entire reason for traveling with Vittorio was to raise money to free the pack, but their relationship pales in comparison to that between Frank, Julie, Joey and Susie. The fact that each member of Legion is relegated to skins while the pack are an integral part of the Knight's kit (and mori) is a travesty.
Even from a mori aspect, Legion's is extremely weak, yet their lore clearly explains what it COULD have been in the description of how the killed the store cleaner, with Frank stabbing the survivor in the back, Joey in the ribs, Julie in the chest, before Susie went for the throat (probably without Frank's assistance, since being in the Trials would mean the Entity had gained influence over them).
While the Legion are definitely devoted to each other, I'd say it's the other way around. They're not devoted on the same level as the Knight is to his summons. This is a dude who was a slave mercenary, earned enough money to buy his own freedom, and then continued serving as a mercenary specifically to raise enough money to buy the freedom of his friends. He literally raised an army to free them. They're the only people he has any true devotion towards, and likely he's the only one they have any true devotion towards.
By comparison, the Legion are just four BFFs who got peer pressured by each other and their leader into becoming murderers.
Hard, hard disagree. The Knight's Pack literallys wore themselves to Tarhos. Julie, Joey, and Susie only followed Frank out of fear. There's a big, big difference. I understand wanting the Knight's kit for Legion but trying to undercut his lore isn't the way to do it. The Pack and Tarhos are essentially blood brothers and he fought tooth and nail to free them from their bondage. The Legion is just a bunch of sycophants afraid to rebel against Frank because they're weak minded teenagers.
Despite what Legion mains like to believe, the Guardia is a better gang than the Legion ever was or ever will be. Accept it and hope for a rework.
@@Seoul_Soldier I am kinda Legion main, I don't care about the pack, all I care about is Hunk and Susie
I literally was thinking that when I read what the Knight’s ability was-
I legit thought “Wow- this is what the legion should’ve been.”
@@jrich436 How do you even know that, there's barely some lore about the legion in the tomes, that mostly talks about julie's perspective and a bit of Frank's. From what I've seen they're just a group of friends, two might be afraid of the leader yeah but they still seem pretty close
I genuinely do not understand the current hate for the legion, I get PTSD and trauma from the past when he used to be worse, but I'd rather much more go against the legion than a spirit, nurse, dredge, nemesis, and artist.
dont forget plague. who is basically a better legion (in terms of keeping everyone injured, except she also gets rewarded if they "heal")
@@LightScintchilla you're right, I did forget plauge, especially with the addons that increase the infection time whenever she throws up on gens
Why Nemesis?
@@JonahBoing his zombies feel very cheap to go against, especially with certain addons and they're very random, most favoring people who don't gen agress
@@moboatz as a Nemesis player, I agree I just like zombie doing random stuff. I fought a hacker once and even when he had max speed he still got hit by a zombie
12:50 They excluded matches where survivors dcd from the killer stats that were recently released. So their kill rate is likely higher than what was shown.
if they die on first hook its not counted as a dc. so games where survivors give up at the start can still be part of the stats.
@@rubygarnet6220 there was no DC penalty bro. If people wanted to "give up" they DC'd every time.
@@calhoot3577 but that's not the point. because dc's are excluded from the stats. the point is that games where survivors give up without dc'ing are still counted. that means that the actual killrate would be even lower and the stats aren't accurate anyways. what did you misunderstood that made you talk about the dc penalty? just curious. btw the dc penalty is gone now, but it was there when they took the data for the stats.
@@rubygarnet6220 My point is that noone used to die on hook back then to throw. it was always a DC. at that point in the game there was no DC penalty. OC was right on the money. The amount of people dying on 1st hook against Legion back then to get out of the game was basically 0. Such an infinitesimal amount, it's not even worth taking into consideration.
@@calhoot3577 my experience is differernt.
I dunno how healthy it would be but I would love to see a reworked legion start out looking exactly like the other 4 survivors and their ability is to put on their mask (maybe giving some sort of sound cue while they're doing it) I dunno how add-ons would work but the disconnect between the trailer and the gameplay has always been really silly to me
Baaaaaain, I'm in fog!
-Payday clown
I wear a mask with a smile for hours at a time
"Hey bro, is it you coming shack gen?"
"Nah, it's the Killer. Run."
SWF would be lose everytime
Swf already has such a massive advantage over solo q. An ability like this would be lethal in solo while being pretty much useless against a team that communicates. Sounds really unfair.
@@kaib6998 yeah I hadn't really thought about swf. I like that people have the ability to play with friends but it feels like it throws a wrench in SO MANY killers' plans
I’ve always loved playing legion. It was nice to have a killer who didn’t just have to think around loops but could use your loops against you.
OG Legion needed 4 hits by default and only 3 hits with Frank's Mixtape which was usually combined with Cold Dirt which reduced the fatigue duration by 0.6 seconds which means you could get your power back even quicker. And on top of that you only had to recharge 10% of your power before you could use it again.
Their power did not cancel after a missed attack so you could run faster in Feral Frenzy by continously lunging. Back then they could still see blood in Frenzy which made Bloodhound a nice perk for them and made moonwalking even more obnoxious. OG Legion had no counterplay, without addons they were extremely weak but with addons they were Nurse tier.
The old days when Legion with addons was the undisputed tunneling king, and thus the most toxic thing to ever play against (all 4 survivors just get Mix Tape + Cold Dirt tunneled to death). OG Legion was bafflingly broken to the point where it's hilarious how fast everything about that addon combo was nerfed.
The better combo for FMT was SWS, which cut the number of hits needed to two, much more useful for the tunneling playstyle.
Chad legions rocked cold dirt and Joey's for a surprisingly fast second hit and wouldn't moonwalk but you didn't see cool down legions often.
Didn't you forget to mention the infinite mending exploit. Where it would not allow you to get the status removed even though you were mending multiple times. I think two tapes or a blade + tape caused this, they had the tapes disabled for a week or two because of it.
i remember filthy blade being part of that combo, CowsIAm has a vid of it
5 minute mends were awful
It was filthy blade and nasty blade that made it impossible to mend
How it worked was one made it take longer to mend initially, the other made it so each time you mended it took longer to mend the next time, the deep wounds timer still ticked down while mending and eventually mends could take about 16 minutes, also the only way to reset the mend timer back to something somewhat reasonable was to enter the dying state and get picked back up. No mither players ate very well that week.
If there is one thing I've learned about dbd players, it's that unless the killer has trapper gameplay they will complain about it being too strong or boring to play against and even then, those traps could use a nerf
Tbh, I love facing stealth killers like ghostie and wraith, and high mobility killers like billy and Wesker and blight are almost always fun.
@@symphony_in_152mm2then we need more survivors like you. Because most survivor mains would do a review bomb to ask the devs to nerf the weakest killer in the game just for shits and giggles.
Imagine them nerfing the trapper
The pig nerfs aren't silly enough, the Billy nerfs weren't overkill enough, you want them to nerf the weakest killer in the game?
God, yes, I hope they continue nerfing every character who isn't the blight, the nurse, and the spirit.
What a terrible take.
@@jacobe9131 google sarcasm
@@C7S123R8P0M3the ACTUAL problem with DBD players is that if one killer isn’t as strong as the top-tier killers then everyone assumes they suck. To this day everyone claims that killers like Myers and Pig suck when they consistently rank on the higher end of kill rates. Currently, Myers sits above Blight and Pig is only slightly lower. NO killer in this game is bad; they all just have varying levels of usefulness and required skill. They all NEED to have some form of counterplay, and, like killers themselves, that can have varying degrees of difficulty for survivors. People tend to dislike it when killer powers can be countered successfully and thus claim that they suck. Blight, Nurse, and Spirit are all top-tier killers but they have viable counterplay in most instances and require more effort to utilize whereas a killer like Wraith, while still having counterplay, has been promoted to a very low-risk, high-reward state of gameplay.
There was perk where you can put your terror radius on you obsession. What if legion did that but change the look on the survivor when he does this. Like making a decoy with a survivor.
The perk is called Dark Devotion
One of The Plague’s Perks
This power would be difficult to balance in a game where people use comms (discord, teamspeak)
what if a survivor could only start hearing your terror radius once you hit them? like, you look like a regular survivor but THEN you are considered a threat.
that would be INSANE
Maybe it can kidnap a survivor and make it look like the killer, but the survivor wouldn’t be able to tell this. It would go away after a minute or 2
@@ciromarin5716then point emotes would be one common as a identifier. If you approach without emoting from a distance it's obviously the killer. Otherwise just keep away
As much as I love Legion's current state, as a killer main, I can't help but wonder what a real rework for Legion would look like.
i am also a killer main, and legions is one of my favorite killers, so much fun to play, especially with perks that help his power
@@vyrizu9713 Which ones?
@@marthvader14Blood Echo and fearmonger
Knight but teens and stabby knives
I’m a survivor main but as a Susie Legion player a rework would look very unique to say the least
Before the dredge released I had an idea for Legion that utilized all 4 members
3 members start in lockers scattered across the map.
By selecting a locker from a distance with the secondary power button (like teleports Freddy) and entering a locker you would switch the the member in the locker on that side of the map.
Survivors entering lockers with members in them would be stuck for a few seconds, applied with deep wound and be highlighted by killer instinct
That's badass.
imagine the mori shows all of them leaving their lockers to group up on the survivor and take turns stabbing them.@@ventexovakon2178
Honestly I really like this idea lol
I don't have any problem with them as of thier recent changes, to play as or to play against. Honestly if people say they are the "most hated" it somewhat doesn't make sense as there are many popular Legion mains out there (Tatariu, Hewie, PotatoLegion), and many more in the community like to play Legion. So sure one can say they are hated lots, but they are enjoyed lots.
Agreed. Tho I see Potato playimg others more. Tat seems more Legion loyal
They’re hated by most, liked by some tbh. Playing against them is boring, but playing as them is more fun.
It’s fun playing as them and they look cool, and have a variety of cosmetics for you to use
I mean the singularity is hated too (at least in steam reviews) for being slow, clunky, and difficult to use. However I think it might be the most overpowered killer in the game and the easiest to win with.
All the best Legions I go against are very good at traditional looping. They have a knack for catching you off-guard because you're assuming they are using frenzy when they are in fact, not.
“Hit and run isn’t an effective strategy” he says while the gameplay is a hit and run
Applying deep wounds on everyone without a second thought isn't an effective strategy. Applying deep wounds to everyone you can, and commiting to a chase when you need to is what being shown to us in the gameplay.
In my opinion it was a huge missed opportunity to have three extra different killers
0:46 that sound effect joke was the only reason you made this video isn't it
I personally really like the idea of a killer whose power is getting access to survivor movement tools. It's really cool and stylish to see the legion do that one handed vault
That's a very common misconception about Legion's trailer.
Nobody thought Legion was going to be a disguise killer at the time of their release. Their trailer released a few weeks after their launch on PTB meaning we already knew what The Legion was like. What a lot of people did speculate was a killer with multiple personalities. At the time we got a few teasers and one them showed multiple names scratched onto a wall with a single person looking into a mirror (which we now know as Frank) that had 3 other reflections behind him wearing different masks.
Another thing you forgot to mention is Legion didn't need to wait for their power to fully recharge back then, they could activate Feral Frenzy when it just at 10% charge.
He also forgot the infinite mend legion which was the real reason ppl hated legion as he could make mending take minutes at a time and it would only increase the time it took the more times u had to mend
@rasenkiddxiv9365 Infinite Mend was only a thing a few months after Legions release. They already had quite the reputation before, but it gave people another reason to dislike them
I think in the trailer of "The Darkness among Us" chapter, now it looking like The legion running with 5 Feral Frenzy Hit with "Undetectable" status effect to 20 rank David King who still thinks he is just another survivor! :D
The good ole' Leg
Funnily enough, in their PTB I felt fear for the first time in a long while as the image of a guy running at me with a knife seemed like the most realistic killer design to me and genuinely made me go "of shit" for the first couple of matches
PTB not PTSD 💀
@@Kap01 oh lol wtf. I didn't notice that, thanks xD
As someone who has been in the game since Nurse, I can confidently say that Legion has been my favourite killer in lore, aesthetics and mechanics ever since Deep Wounds stopped lowering while mending. They are fun, fast, jovial and cruel. They are frenetic, their power is an unholy toolbox deck of information, mobility, slowdown, pressure and more. They were for a long time an insurance policy against salt. You can't be called bad or a scrub if you play a low tier killer and win ;). Their rework was one of the best thought out ever, as good or better than Leatherface's. Ryuga, Tatairu, Potato and more have brought me hours of joy. Thanks for showing the other side of the argument, even if I disagree
As someone who really looked forward to playing legion when I got the dlc, the power reads in a way that makes it seem like you almost have to play with a hit and run playstyle to utilize it but you really quickly realize that you just are not actually getting anywhere, and need to commit to a survivor after deep wounding them from feral frenzy if you want to make any progress towards victory.
you kinda only want to chase the other frenzy hits if they are close enough, yes better players will spread out but sometimes that dont and thats a mistake, so its up to you to play it right
@@vyrizu9713 Maybe if Legion had some sort of herding ability... Issue is that it's damn hard to force survivors to stay together
Introducing “Skull Merchant”
Ardetha: *make this video*
The skull merchant: I'm about to kill this man's whole work.
The idea of a killer that can shroud as others should’ve been the base idea for the Legion, cause feral frenzy ain’t it.
Unfortunately that would never happen as swf exists and solo q will eventually get something to communicate with.
There are also prople with dwight's perk to read their teammates aura.
@@Sharkamfssbro called the second one
Feral frenzy is fun to use and its easy to outplay, just dont group up like helpless sheeps and just press w if you are that boring. Yeah imagine shroud as others, which dummy will fall for that? Maybe on new players it will work but that power sounds fun on paper, in practice it will get old waaaaaay too fast. You survivors complain about fcking everything, only happy when something goes your way, literal child behavior XD
The thing with creating a disguise killer is that they immediatly become powerless the moment the survivors are on comms, and BHVR kew this and couldnt make the design. Considering when they were added, something like The Knight wasn't yet feasible, so they put it on the backburner. What I think happened is that they left it for so long they couldnt really rework it into what they wanted without completly changing the whole power, which in turn would upset a lot of people who had spent time learning the killer in the previous state.
The closest I can imagine is keeping Feral Frenzy the same, but allowing the Legion to "swap out" by checking lockers, with each member having different minor abilities (one has aura reading, one can vault faster, one higher base speed etc) that affect how survivors can loop them, meaning they have to adjust how they play and keep track of that. If a killer prefers one power they cna keep playing without swapping out on their fave. Even then, that would mess with cosmetics a lot so it will never happen.
I think legion is the perfect opportunity to make a killer that has multiple abilities that you can choose from before beginning the game. Basically each member of the legion is their own killer with their own ability but they all share the same skins so you can make plays based on the survivors not knowing your ability or trying to guess your ability.
I recently discovered a killer test which tells you what killer should be your go to, and no matter how many times I take and and put in different answers depending on where I am in the game it always tells me legion should be my main killer. And after watching this video I fell as though I might be hated for it
but I’m still getting legion
The BHVR devs are already working on a Legion rework, it’s called The Knight.
I also remember that the mending timer didnt pause when mending, so you would just get stabbed multiple times, get out of chase and get down before you could even mend fully
I think you forgot to mention that most people kept hating Legion because of the perk rework that buffed Thanatophobia and using Sloppy Butcher along with the Legion Pin addon made it so frustrating to do gens, which took 10 seconds longer and still to this day, after the Thana nerf it's still good only in the two killers that benefit the most of it being Legion and Plague.
What was old Thana like?
sloppy butcher is kinda counter intuitive when using the legion, but it can still work if no one is broken, but honestly when i play killer, my fun comes first and if i feel like it maybe ill make sure they have fun, the survivors that complain are just bored, that or its 2 hard for them to play against, i like how legion is now, i played survivor back when legion came out tho
@@deyontemyers4109 since no one bothered to answer you, old Thanatophobia was a 4% repair speed slowdown per injured survivor (total of -16% repair speed if all 4 were injured) it was commonly paired with Pentimento (-30% repair speed) and Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain (-16% heal and repair speed after getting unhooked and healed) so a Legion or Plague could easily keep you at a -46% repair speed unless you took the time to cleanse every totem.
@@JondarKorric ...why do I have a bad feeling some players try to self care that
@@deyontemyers4109 because they did. and still do.
"Things needed to change."
"So, five months later..."
LMAO
I wish Legion had Knight's power, or at least had the other members somewhere in the trial, watching you work, instead of just being skins...
Still love Legion regardless of how bad my Susie is, because running at moch speed is fun, and nobody knows to not heal...
I remember when I played him when he first came out I accidentally did the chase without chasing strat constantly because I would stab someone get stunned and couldn't catch up until they bled out
I'm surprised that Nemesis Legion wasn't mentioned at all, since when Oni came out, most Legions abused the hell out of that perk to get cheap downs
For me it was Blood Echo. Multiple stabs and then get one down and have them all Exhausted and such in a single go was truly insane
@@royaldoughnut2131 Same.
@@royaldoughnut2131It's still really good on legion
I actually really enjoy the Legion, especially the way they are now. I guess it depends on what part of the game you prefer; a lot of killers and survivors actually love doing chases, which Legion are perfect for.
Legion chases are the least fun
@@darkartsdabbler2407not even close, almost half of the killers chases are less run, artist, pyramid head, nemesis, chucky, dracula, demogorgon etc because they have extreme antiloop
Love your content dude. I was binge-watching your survivor academy videos last night. Wish you still did those where people send footage of there games to you. But I love these information videos too.
Those videos were sooo gooood
@@GebJungle Yeah, I got some good tips from them.
Nice meat riding
@@Beastlysu doing tricks on his meat aswell
Skull merchant is like playing chess
I’ve been a legion main for about 3 months now and I know my character sucks ass but I still have fun at the end of the day and I’ve rarely only encountered dc’s when it’s a bad map or they just rage quit out of going down
I‘m acctually a Legion Main and I remember a friend telling me that I behave much different than to a "usual" Legion main, since I just apply deep wound and keep chasing that survivor like normal. I don‘t quit the chase, but rather keep going. Idk… I mainly play them/Frank because I just really like him and the lore… and so far the survivors didn‘t dc or anything. They seemed to enjoy the game so far.
Legion is my favorite killer rn
I just like the concept really
When playing as survivor, I frequently find it obnoxious when killers have kits that completely counter base level survivor gameplay mechanics. Like, making pallets and windows useless just makes chases and trying to loop the killer impossible. And if there's no way to win a chase, why play? It's bad enough that wiggle mechanics are worthless unless you have a perk build designed to make it doable. You can nail every skill check and still only make 50% wiggle progression. But, when the killer's kit makes it so escape isn't really feasible, it really ruins the experience. It makes it so stealth is the only option, and some killers, that's not an option at all.
My rework idea for Legion.
Legions power now has a passive, the other members of Legion will spawn across the map, and they will injure, but not down survivors if they see them. They work similarly to the Knight detection radius except they are undetectable unless in chase. HOWEVER, they will not chase injured survivors without an addon that makes them chase only injured survivors. The reason being that the [PLAYER] Killer was chosen to have the fun of killing the targeted survivor.
Addons would effect the passive power, changing what the legion members do. For example certain tapes could cause the Legion members to inflict deep wound or expose instead of injured, or reveal the survivors with aura reading.
Legions active power would cause all survivors that were injured by the Legion members to be exposed for 45 seconds, and have their auras revealed for 15 seconds when used. I'd rename it [Hunt Down] or something similar.
Pretty cool idea
please no more AI killers...
So it’s basically just the knights ability and nemesis’s zombies combined into one, that honestly doesn’t sound bad tbh
Trash idea stay out of the idea business
Exposed while injured sounds like the skull merchant.
you've prob been hearing this a lot, but this style of video is amazing!! the exact kind of thing I wish I saw more, so thanks so much for these!! dbd analysis is so interesting
Dont forget about the Filthy blade + Nasty blade combo that has been exploited for months before fix :D Another reason why was Legion so hated.
I thought the main benefit of modern Legion was gaining information on where the other survivors are through the special vision Frenzy gives you, and you basically nullify the survivor's ability to loop you through the use of good add-ons like the one that lets you break pallets on vaults, or the one that reduces the amount of slashes Frenzy needs to down someone, making chases much shorter because you need fewer hits while also not wasting time worrying about pallets.
Ooh that would be an amazing idea for a red addon, making it so it takes 4 feral slashes instead of 5 to secure a down, mb purple with red being 3 idk
How Legion became the most hated killer:
babies.
0:47 that detail made me sub. I wish you nothing but greatness in your endeavour.
I really like that the add-on changes made using Frenzy far more useful. I certainly wish there were more to The Legion, especially since Behaviour seems to have a preference with the characters. Why give them so many cool skins and even a comic run in the works and not even rework the power to be more interesting and desirable for both sides to face?
Seing how many diffrent ideas for how legion should work there is, I got idea where every member would function diffrently, One for all-on hit and run, the other one for ambushes, another one for stalking and someone for blending as survivor
you forgot to mention the infinite mending era
Brightness so high you can see a bird all the way to the other side of the map
I really like Legions Power. If they ever want to Add a Killer who can Mask themselves as a Survivor and then switch into Killer Mode, they should make a new Killer out of that.
I wanna keep using Feral Frenzy and Chain Hits and all of that. I really like it.
They could however increase Legions Movement Speed a Bit and also increase duration.
Also they could reduce the Mend timer by either adding Skillchecks or making the Deepwound deplet faster.
Also as far as i know the actual mending time is just 8 seconds and not 12. But you can increase it up to 12 with Filthy Blade. But i don't know for sure
I love both and they fit with legions design really well. If only we could have both.
It's 12s if you mend yourself, but 8s if someone else mends you
I love the late 2000's/2010's masked slasher theme of legion.
Legion is the whole reason I never take Resilience off any of my builds.
I think a cool change would be to have all the legion members playable by having them hide in random lockers at start and you could hide or change between them by going to a locker. Bonus: Whenever a survivour trys to hide in the locker a legion member is in. They pull them in kinda like boogeymans ability but if the killer doesn't get to that locker in said amount of time. The survivour comes out and that legion member in that locker is stunned and can't be changed into for an amount of time.
What!! But I love Legion! *Shuffles 400 hours of Legion maining behind my back*
Same problem that you were describing about the false 50% killrate applies to Skull Merchant. On paper she's amazing, but so many of those are people DC'ing or giving up *eyeroll*
I looped a legion for like 30 seconds, they then proceeded to tunnel me, slug me, then face camp. The worst part was my 3 teammates were working on the same gen and and let me die on first hook.
Yep, that's what happens when I go against nurse,trickster,dredge,plague and clown
@@gibbybtw280so basically ur bad and skill issue
@@NotAbritishGuy I mean yeah if you think about it I only have 1500 or so hours on dbd and p63 claudette, but I still definitely play like a player with 5 minutes in the game lol
Thats literally what your supposed to do when a person is getting facecamped
@@PumKat666 the finished a single generator in 2 minutes and all three of them were on the same gen, they then proceeded to crouch walk towards me from across the whole map and just watched me die.
Honestly, I just bought and played them a bit, I love it, I even watched the trailer and just loved the look, it's like someone was in the fog so long they made a deal, despite the rep i still love being nice, like my last match, I left the last one alive who tried to unhook instead of a guaranteed escape so I let em win, and I lost badly on alien and they said hi so I said bye and just took one then basically waved em off without swinging, I love friendly play it's so funny to me
the worst part about the legion is that they are angsty teenagers. Somehow that just makes them lame from the get-go. You have badass plagues, serial killers from movies, creepy clowns....angsty teens.
Amen to that
"creepy clowns"
DbD devs calling out every killer main out there with Legion lore 😂😂😂
“Creepy clowns” Shadap mate you sound like that angsty teen 😂
@@NotAbritishGuy if you look at clown in this game with his lore and design, and DONT think he's creepy, then i think there is something wrong with you.
I do remember the glitch The Legion had where the more they use feral frenzy to give survivors constant bleeding effects the longer the mending goes like you could potentially get a mending that costs 2 hours to complete mending
Ah yes the infinite mending addons
Can confirm as legion most my wins come from survivors just giving up
You forgot to mention when they changed mending went from being in the Terror Radius to just running. Legion/other killers after hitting a survivor with BT. Would use undetectable to remove their terror radius and make them bleed out
I think Legion still needs a major overhaul. This would be a great chance to give the Legion a unique tertiary ability depending on the killer you are playing. They should all work the same at their core, but have different visual effects and cosmetics, which would add even more personality to the 4 killers.
You mean something like having:
Frank: Faster recovery at the end of power
Susie: Smaller terror radius
Joey: Faster run speed while using power
Juilie: Can vault windows and pallets faster.
Select the corresponding mask of whomever and get their buff.
And to switch characters, change the mask in the customization tab(so we keep both add-on slots)
@@Kdawg4859 I was thinking more of a trick weapon, cuz if they all get different functional abilities, BHVR is bound to fuck it up given their terrible history of balancing. With the ideas you proposed, Frank would be the standout meta pick since his power would lead to faster downs and shorter chases.
@@thethiccdonut5257 A trick weapon? Of course, Otz idea of legion having gun should totally be implemented.
On a serious note, I feel like this idea would be such a mess to balance even as a joke but would fit legions character so well.
@@thethiccdonut5257 Faster recovery as in just give my man his 3 secs back instead of 4.......sheesh even a 3.5, Nothing too too crazy lol. 😅😅 just something small to give them all a unique identity im sure bhvr can figure out something to give em without affecting the power. I much rather prefer a whole new power/rework tbh. The last time legion looked like a cool killer was the trailer 💀
@@forthelolz1121 Well to take most of the variables out, they should all operate the same exact way and have the same animations TIMES, but have unique skins and animations to each character.
I started when Spirit came out and last played the game right before Pyramid Head came out. It has been fun to listen to your coverage of timelines of changes to the game. So much has changed since then
As a Legion main I call it skill issue if survivors give up just by knowing they're going against a legion.
They say Legion Is a weak killer, yet they quit if they hear legions terror radius?
Definitely skill issue.
Myself like going against legion and the least fun killer to me is the clown but I sure don't fricken rage quit lol.
Yea I just don't understand people's logic of calling certain killers being "terrible" yet they still die from them while the killer gets 4k without even "tunneling". Right now is the same problem with Skull Merchant, she's really strong with chase pressure and information overall. I play Spirit, Legion, Sadako, and Skull Merchant. Majority of my matches I get 4k, won against P70+ with skill issues really.
Yes legion is low tier but the killer is not fun to go against you always have to heal/mend overall people just dont like being spam hit all game and being forced to mend 24/7
@@CureLinzzi Myself like to go against legion 😊
But I sure hate clown 👀 💀
I rather mend for days
@@ItsChilliyou are a clown
Anyone who wanted Legion to be a mimic type killer, or still wants a mimic type killer, needs to remember one thing: You are worthless against a SWF if your whole thing is deception.
It’s funny to think that people say a shapeshifting killer wouldn’t work because of a SWF and act as if every killer needs to be the next nurse, but they’re too ignorant to realize that a killer with a unique and fun power could also have a secondary attack, map pressure, etc.
@@therealkhobe I mean this is kind of the problem with the argument “a shapeshifter killer wouldn’t work because of SWF.”
While you are right, I did say that a killer can have more than one power to them. This would cover up for its weakness against SWF’s. Also, not everything has to be competitively viable.
@@forthelolz1121shush it wouldn’t work now cope
@@NotAbritishGuy It would, but go off.
an imposter killer would be so much better. Like a killer that could make itself look like different killers, and survivors. Like you see a clown and think I'm good and then boom it is not a clown and your plan on dealing with it is over.
I've been playing Legion for a while now and I haven't had much issue like that, once in a while someone leaves which doesn't bother me much. I just like how simple they are and I usually played it in a casual, sometimes I'll go slower and give the survivors a chance if they start struggling.
how did you make your colors like that? pls tell me i need that
i dont know bro i really love the full anti heal build im playing with never sleep pills and runing hiting and hiting while the insane chase music is playing and then taking the down with the fith hit watching everyone injured not doing gens and taking the first down while im on edge with the satisfaction of all this speed running omg is just awesome
crazy idea
Delete Legion as a Killer, make Julie, Susie and Joey redeemed survivors and change Joey (the leader and only one of the group that enjoys killing) into a different killer entirely
bonus points if Frank becomes 'The Imposter' killer like they were originally teased as
Nah. Besides swf plus comms destroy any concept of an Impostor
not true, impostor works regardless of comms, ur just not smart enough to think straight. the killer can turn into imposter form every 30 seconds and mimic any survivor of the 4 including their outfit and items. unless the swf keep asking who the killer is every second and stick together every second which is impossible, the survivor are stuck with keep guessing if their friends are real. and all it takes is a spit second to hit before the other survivors even have time to guess anything, with comms or not. and the constant fear that your friend is actually not your friend every time you see them adds to the advantage. Grabbing from gens would be so much easier, when u act like doing gen with them, even if 2 of the same characters are spotted, the sheer confusion and time wasting of who to run away from gets u a hit anyways, ur especially more powerful if the swf tries to be funny and load all 4 of the same characters with same outfit, they will be dead and traumatized even faster.
I think if they made the mimic style killer we were originally expecting Legion would be quite beloved all things considered
Love these new type of videos. But i kinda miss the old ones 😅
Legion proves a point I've learned about game balancing the hard way: you can be underpowered to play as, AND unfun to fight against at the same time
"How The Legion Became The Most HATED Killer" uploaded 4 minutes ago
This is the video I've been waiting for
How is it so enjoyable to watch this. Unironically his voice is just calming
As a brand new player as of yesterday i fell in love with playing the legion immediately and i have had at least one disconnect almost every game and now i know why ;-; this feels so sad
If theres one thing ive learned about the survivors on here is that no matter what you do. They will hate playing against you, you can be friendly, not camp and play well enough to get 2-3 sometimes 4 kills and they will still hate you.
They only have fun when they escape with barely any competition and then they t-bag and draw out the game.
Survivors dont ever care if the killer is having fun but I always try to make sure theyre having fun by not camping or tunneling.
I'm cherry picking but I have had games that were total wins for me only for survivors to tell me in the post chat about how much fun they had, even happened one time with Legion (probably noobs that didn't know any better.)! I treasure those moments lol.
"How unavoidable the feral slash is"
Trickster: ahahaha yeah...
I've always suggested that Legion should've changed three ways in the forums.
A. That deep wound should function more like a health bar between injured and dying state, removing the bleeding out timer.
Stabbing the same survivor twice in a row would fatigue legion but not of they were bouncing back and forth between multiple survivors.
B. Removing mending and just making it healing.
Legion removed say 33% of a survivors health, the survivor is at 66% of health and need to heal what's been removed.
C. Lastly a bit that you didn't mention was how Legion was promoted.
They're 4 teens, you could argue that the trailer with David just shows Legion's Athleticism, speed and ability to vault like a survivor, but the core aspect of Legion being 4 teens is all boiled down to cosmetics, which doesn't even matter much, consider the two sets of voices and not much differences in the physique of the characters.
Many say that that Knight's ability matches Legion's backstory but I'd go more with Nemesis' passive with it's zombies,
Just have the other 3 teens walk around only able to do a small chunk of damage on a Survivor's health if they hit, announce to the player the Survivor has spotted and have them walk around the map randomly, chasing survivors for some time, if 3 AI killers is too much right off the bat, maybe have them join with a generator fix and an announcement and marking for survivors to know where the AI Legion is spawning, maybe have a series of Add-ons adding the AI Legion Members sooner, or even letting the Legion player swap places with an AI at the price of a lengthy cooldown.
That’s why he was normal in the trailer because in his frenzy he goes over the pallet like a survivor and vaults like one
Im a legion main since day 1 of his release and haven’t stopped loving him since. Plus he got some of the best cosmetics in the game
An Among Us type of killer would have been a lot more fun. Maybe one where they'd use some sort of illusion power to show up as a different player each time (either randomly selected from the existing players or a completely new person). Bonus if while disguised they could pretend to heal you (but actually once the bar finishes you are downed). Another fun gimmick it could have had would be the ability to "trap" survivor bodies once hooked, so if a player rescues a trapped hooked survivor, the hooked survivor switches places with the killer. Yes, the rescued player still gets rescued, but the rescuer now has to face the killer. I feel like these skills would also fit a lot more with the name of the killer, "Legion". With so many impersonations you actually feel like you're up against a legion. Good counter play would have probably consisted of a buddy system, thus reducing the killer's effectiveness since he'd approach alone and be instantly identifiable, but at the same time would mean players are easier to find and less generators get worked on at the same time. Though with the added bonus that any generator that does get worked on gets more progress. Rescuing would also be a lot more of a risk&reward type of deal, same with trusting someone to heal you. At the same time survivors can use the killer's teleporting against them, teleporting them to a hook to get them away from other players. A lot of fun designs could have been had with a character with a trailer like that and a name like Legion. Current state feels like he's just a random murder hobo.
If the legion swapped with a rescued player then legions would abuse the frick out of make your choice to guarantee first hook deaths, cuz ain’t no way anyone is gonna go down to basement if there’s an even smaller chance of making it out than of a bubba was camping.
@@JohnDoe-pb3xn Hey I was just spitballing, just explaining how the general concept might have been adapted - I'm no game dev :))
I play the legion as a killer and I don't think he is that bad. His frenzy should have a longer base time because the maps are really big for him. But all in all I like him.
Legion : *most hated*
nurse : it feels like I've never existed
Quick question: Why does every fucking Legion player play as Susie?
hot pink hair egirl
cute shy pink-haired girl who acts younger
Wait 2018?! Damn. I remember waking up one day before school, I got myself a frozen Mac and cheese dinner for breakfast, and sat on my bed and watched a Noob3 video on the legion. It was the day they released on PTB, and I had no idea that they were a thing.