Excellent video. Always been terrified of civil war after having a campaign go bottom up thanks to constant civil wars. Also saw some other solutions to perennial issues. Many thanks!
awesome video, can you do one about everything else as well? like supplies and banditry for starters, huge fan of the game and love to know how to play them. you went very in depth with good teaching and tips
ty for the support. Banditry can be a pain and there is no way to remove it completely. The triggered events are random, so there is no point using slots for banditry reduction specific buildings. The way to deal with banditry is to build a strong economy, so when an event hits the impact is minimal. Supplies can be intimidating, but there are some simple rules that can help you managed it: 1. If you are expanding and intend to keep regions, never loot or raze settlements. 2. Spread full stack armies across regions, only group them together in one region for 1/2 turns. This avoids the depletion of stores in a region. 3. Check a regions stores (hover cursor over the food indicator) to see how long an army can stay in region. 4. Keep enemy armies out of your border regions as these can drain the stores, making it difficult to keep armies there. 5. If a regions stores get low move armies out so they can recover. 6. When expanding into the cold north or the desert build grain pits in the province capital. The three region supply lines will allow armies to operate in the poorer regions. 7. Do not forget navies can resupply armies. When moving an army across water attach it to a navy so it will not suffer attrition. When moving an army near the coast use a navy to supply it, for example, a good way to capture the Arabian peninsular is to move armies supported by navies down the Red Sea coast. Hope this helps
Thank you for this... I'm struggling really hard to play rotr as Rome on legendary, finally after too many tries I finally manahe to reach a good situation and...civil war.
Civil war can be a pain. Loyalty is a long term project that needs to be constantly monitored, especially in the later game. Have had a civil war triggered by another faction leader being killed in battle. Missed that it had dipped a couple of percent below zero, but it was enough to trigger a civil war.
Very thorough information, well done. I had to learn this the hard way through many head to head DEI campaigns. To help get empire maintenance to zero i put political reformer and unwavering patriot on near all my generals and admirals and only put night commander on generals and armies purpose built for PVP. I also build libraries in every province capital at tier 3 which give a further plus one. Also all tier 3 sanitation buildings give a further 0.5% (if required) making it possible to go to zero and beyond. With near everyone having political reformer which gives research and governors spec'ed for research with all the libraries you can reduce 48 turn research into maybe 10-12 turns. With this research speed you can get all the tactics technologies in a relatively short amount of time for manual battle buffs. With a bit of luck i get this going around turn 150.
@@StephenSilverbeard Thank you Stephen for reading it. You're the only one who truly goes in depth into DEI. I've learned a lot from you. It really helps out in head to head campaigns.
What happens with a civil war? Do all the parties rebel or just the ones with negative loyalty? And when you win the civil war is the rebel party(s) destroyed? If so are they replaced with new parties?
@@rogerhill9559when a civil war happens. The family that rebelled will no longer be a part of your faction. In dei after a year or sooner a new party will take their place. The party with the lowest level of loyalty is the first to rebel.
Same happened to me. I was fucked man. No auto saves or anything. 7 of my armies with all meta (OP) units turned on me and captured half of my territories. I restarted it. Lol!
I am 200 turns in, I actually enjoy civil wars thematically. Fighting the traitors legions is lots of fun to me, but both my fleets, which had carried me in the punic wars have both turned in me.......
Very insightful video! I might ask how you balance faction loyalty with keeping sufficient gravitas for your own party. In vanilla, promoting and employing generals from other parties gives gravitas to those groups. How do you ensure sufficient gravitas for your own party?
Since the change to the rebellion mechanic influence is not as powerful as it was, it is more important to focus on loyalty. Have had campaigns where the influence has stayed in the middle throughout the entire game. Have not checked recently but when playing DEI high influence can have negative impact on loyalty, so pushing influence too hight cause problems in the mid/late game. In the early game the accumulation of gravatas comes down to which general is winning battles and taking territory as this results in them levelling up. This implies the some ruling faction generals need to be on the front line, but it is important to not over develop a single general. My general rule is to use the family generals to fight the winnable battles and sieges, while conversely a general not fighting does not accumulate gravatas, so putting another faction general in an army defending a remote frontier is a way to minimising their impact. Note: Politicians gain gravatas every turn. There is an argument that keeping the faction leader a politician in the capital can increase gravatas faster than when they are leading an army. It can be a pain, but consider rotating generals as letting other faction generals win battles improves loyalty, if possible keep the faction leader in the capital then rotate them into an army that is about to capture a province , so they can get the glory. If another faction general gets too much gravatas consider giving them a heroic death on the battlefield, although check to make sue it will not give the faction negative loyalty. Make sure all the family members are married, Wives are often overlooked, but they can have a big impact, they can be used for missions, e.g., send emissary, organise game, etc. and giving them traits the generate gravatas. Can give other faction's wives traits that reduce gravatas. In addition, after an unexpected death a wife remarrying is a cheap way to get a new general. When the game move toward the mid/late game the value of gravatas/influence becomes less important as the negatives related of loyalty kick in, for example, the higher Imperium levels the negative loyalty debuffs are hard work . Letting other factions generals fight to gain levels that increase loyalty is far more important than influence. Have had a -1 loyalty in a other faction trigger a civil war, which in the late game is a real pain. Finally, do not ignore traits, especially those of the heir to a faction. A key trait to watch out for is 'thirst for power' (-10 loyalty if the parties influence is less the the ruling party). if a heir has this trait make sure they have an accident on the battlefield. Killing on the battlefield will result is a temporary drop in loyalty, but it is better than have then as a faction leader. The impact of some traits depends on the what is happening, so take them into consideration when considering diplomatic actions. Generally during a game I find managing loyalty often results in generating gravatas, hope this helps
Great video man. Helps alot. I have one more thing tho: In the faction overview I have the malus "disdained faction leader" among other things it gives a -10 loyalty for all families. How do I get rid of it?
Traits like this is one of the annoying elements of the game, they seem to appear for no apparent reason, often when a new leader takes over. Suspect this is somehow related to the six character traits, Political rank, education, Personality, Brawler, Commander and Intellect, but have never found a pattern. Use two strategies when this trait appears. If the leader is getting old, work on developing the heir, build up the loyalty then get the leader killed. There is an element of risk, but it can pay off. The other is more long term as it involves make the faction leader a winner. The brawler and commander traits improve based on casualties, victories and age, so the key is win battles with minimum casualties. The key is to teleport the faction leader into an army to take the good victories, winnable sieges are best. The scrapper trait is based on bodyguard casualties, so keep the general out of trouble during the battle then at the end use the unit to run down fleeing units. Hop this all make sense.
One party in my complain has a -80 loyalty debuff. Provincial something something. My empire is huge, and theres no way to avoid civil war that i can see. I'll literally keep giving them stuff till my damn faction leader is out of gravitas. And when the war breaks out they take with them more than 20 settlements. I have no idea what the debuff is from. It doesn't say. It says Provincial ... incentive? I don't remember now. Anyway, i have no idea what it means.
Unfortunately loyalty is a mechanic that is difficult to fix once it gets out of control because many actions have a negative impact, especially if they fail. Provincial Initiative indicates that an edict has been implemented in a province held by a faction, giving +15 loyalty. If it is negative, it is possible there is something wrong with the provinces owned by the faction, e.g. low PO, low loyalty. Have had problems due to rapid expanding too quickly, but these have impacted empire maintenance. Part of the problem with loyalty is there is a 'black box' element to how it is calculated, for example, have been on imperium level 8 which gives -40 loyalty, but the political breakdown listed a value of -15. For this reason I regularly check loyalty, when a faction gets to around 10 look at ways to fix it, normally by promoting characters or letting the faction general win a decisive battle. Sorry I cannot give more information, Edit: Just been checking an old Rome save. Agents/generals in the regions owned by faction can have an impact on loyalty. Dignitaries with the demagogue trait can increase loyalty, but it is possible there are enemy agents/bad own agents in the area causing problems.
@@StephenSilverbeard I'll have to figure it out! Playing as the Selucid Empire, so i don't even have the secure loyalty option. Just provoke and purge. If i can't find a way to get around the civil war i think i might just quit the campaign, which would be a shame, since i've got max level imperium, a huge empire and even managed to hold on to several large satrapies from the beginning. Oh and i'm making more than 60k a turn. Basically i'm a power to rival rome, who i made alot of effort to be on friendly terms with. But we all know how it's gonna end. Hugescale war between two giant empires.. IF my empire doesn't tear itself apart :P Sadly the party thats rebelling has 40-something% influence. Rivalling my own party. Furthermore, for SOME reason, it is IMPOSSIBLE to recruit more politicians to that party. There's only ever three candidates, and many times i've bought them, just to get new ones, and not a single time have i gotten candidates for that party. Party's name is "Local nobility" which also seems abit odd, so maybe there's some meta-thing going on? I do have my taxes set on max, but positive happiness in every settlement, excluding new conquests. I guess i'll try and maybe lower taxes, see if it has an impact. I'll have to figure SOMETHING out. Cause i'm really liking playing Selucid Empire, the added dimension of keeping your satrapies happy is quite fun. Also! Thanks alot for answering my initial comment! I must admit, i didn't expect it, since this video is years old. Class act!
@@Northernmight Its the high taxes. Increased the taxes on an old Rome campaign to very high, the most powerful family went from +53 to -118 loyalty, the breakdown showed -171 provincial initiative. Checked other campaigns, the penalty seems to relate to factions that are nearly equal or stronger than the ruling family.
My problem is that i have all senate families at +50 or so loyalty but suddenly one family goes down to -50 over just one turn (thats a 100 loyalty lost in ONE TURN) for no aparent reason and i get a message saying "high risk of civil war". Anyone know why this happens? Also my influence penatlies are stuck at maximum even though the other families control around 50% of the senate... is my campaign completely bugged? It all started to go wierd after i won my first civil war.
This is a tricky one as it is a long time since I have fought a civil war as they are a real pain. Can only suggest checking the families loyalty in the politics tab as this will give a breakdown of what is causing the problem. Look for two entries in particular, the imperium level and general killed in battle. If you have saved a separate game during the civil war, compare the loyalty levels as this should show the difference/ Civil wars can mess with the imperium level due to provinces breaking away, after winning the imperium will rise again, in late game this could result in -30 point drop in loyalty, The general killed in battle starts at -25 (I think) and then decreases over time, Not sure if this a accumulative, but if the family leader has been killed it will have big impact. Another possibility is a member family leader has some bad traits, e.g. thirst for power. Sorry for the limited help, can only suggest is when playing always keep loyalty positive to avoid civil wars, they are just not worth the effort.
A bit late for my let's play campaign but still informative. How do you allocate the regions for different families and how do you gain senate influence?
You cannot allocate regions to families, the game allocates regions according to their influence. This allocation is only really useful if you need to use the edict that increases loyalty. Gaining influence can be a bit of a grind and generally I do not bother too much about it. I try to keep around 50% (influence Respected) as the higher benefits have little impact in the greater scheme of things. Influence is based on gravitas and can be increased by given certain answers to events, but it does not seem to change much. The best way to increase gravitas is to use the faction leader and family members to fight and win battles, but it is still a grind and can reduce loyalty. I find that keeping loyalty in the positive and keeling empire maintenance low makes it possible to ignore influence. Hope this helps.
@@StephenSilverbeard Cheers m8, I'm a little far into my let's play campaign but will try to implemente some of your tips to correct my campaign. Tbh I'm pretty rich atm, we are at 50% influence and we have good standings with the other families. So I must have done something right..... dunno what though.... But this helps me alot, thx dude.... PS: Won't having generals from other families give control over regions? The question is, how does my family gain control over a region.... ?
@@DoubleYouTee The regions are automatically allocated according to each families influence. Also after a major expansion they can get moved around, so it pays to check the map from time to time.
So the difference with other mods is here its a chance off civil war when it's -5 and for example Para bellum is when its -15 to -20 chance off civil war?
Not sure about other mods, but In the base game and Dei there is a small chance of civil war once the percentage drops below 0%. The few times I have had it happen is when a 'key' general e.g. faction or minor family leader, has been lost in battle taking the percentage below zero,
I think a big confusion is how does loyalty actually apply. I always assumed what I wanted was to acquire loyalty to *my party faction* ... but, rather loyalty means towards Rome itself. In the past I was afraid that "bonus loyalty for this characters party" was a negative! And I think a lot of folk would think it too, the counter intuitive nature of the wording in game is problematic. Basic intuition makes players think "it's my party against theirs"... but no, what you really want is all parties to be loyal to Rome. Everyone get along. Edit: I notice in your video you said "she is producing +6 loyalty to their various factions".... honestly it this kind of statement that is confusing players. Rather, what she's doing is increasing loyalty *of* her party faction *toward* Rome. It's not your fault this mechanic is confused but we TW fanboys need to be careful, do our part to correct the confusion.
Rome is more complex than the other factions, many players confuse loyalty with power in the senate. Another cause for confusion was the previous civil war mechanic was based on power, so powerful parties would trigger the event. The situation is not helped by the wording of some hints as it is not clear who is benefiting from loyalty bonus. This is an old video, since it was made the loyalty bonus from levelled up wives has been nerfed, but it remains worth doing.
@@StephenSilverbeard speaking of complexity, I really think traits should be scaled back so I don't have to juggle in my mind a thousand effects. Characters under the age of 30 should have, say, no more than 2 traits. And traits acquisition slowed down so the sixth trait only arrives around say 60 years old... I want to love this game but it's exhausting to play it in a rigorous way.
@@inexpedientone4854 Like the idea, unfortunately the mod team have to work within the framework provided by CA. it is unlikely CA will be interested in revisiting legacy games, all we can hope they will produce an update historical title.
@@StephenSilverbeard actually years ago I was in to modding and I know there are numerous things can be done to tone down the character/factional effects. Seems like mod makers haven't quite got the message that roles and roles of effects are cumbersome and for me game breaking. I know ppl have complained but the modders tend to make minimal adjustments when in reality massive scaling to the downside is what the game really needs. Playing as is, is a total headache. End up just ignoring charcater effects.. focus on buildings, diplomacy, and battles.
I play Seleucid campaign, I kepe having civil wars with a random family who somehow takes the 60 percent of the empire, my question is, how do i avoid a family having always so much influence, how do i keep more influence over terretories? It seems no matter how much loyalty but if they have more influence over settlements you basicly conquering the world for that family.
The Seleucids are interesting as the Macedonian Nobility start with with Mesopotania, which is bigger than the Syria. Loyalty and influence are two different mechanics, with negative loyalty triggering civil wars. I take a Medieval approach towards influence and the territory occupied, that is the other factions may be large land owners, but they are still vassals of the faction leader. Thus I generally ignore who owns what, but do keep a close eye on loyalty. Civil wars are random events so even a 1% risk on the summary page is bad news after the first 20 turns. Would take it further by saying any faction with negative loyalty needs to immediate attention. Here are some additional tips that may help: 1, When recruiting generals aim to have max two characters in each other party faction. That is the leader and the heir, this makes it possible to see if the heir has bad traits. If the family has a bad trait, e.g. thirst for power, consider recruit a third so they can get married (see below). 2, Make sure all the other characters are married and their wife has level 4 experience. This gives a +12 loyalty to each faction. 3. All ruling family actions, marriages, promotions, etc have a negative impact on loyalty, it show as political actions, which take a long time to fade. Before doing these actions always check the loyalty of the other parties. Never do multiple actions in a single turn. 4, Getting the leader of a other parties leader has a major impact on loyalty and has a multiple turn cool down. For this reason do not take risks with these generals, in dangerous situation swap them out for a family member. 5. Following on from point 4, a good strategy is to put the other party leaders in navies so they can gain experience and use the heirs as generals. If you want to develop a party leader in the early game, swap them into an army for an easy win and then swap them out to keep them safe. 6. Always check the Philosophy tech tree, it varies from faction to faction, but getting some levels into this in the early game can give bonuses to loyalty and influence with the added bonus of reduced empire maintenance. This tech tree should be complete by the time your empire hits Imperium level 5. 7 Never send male characters on diplomatic missions, the risk of getting them killed is too high. Diplomacy is the realm of wives and daughters. 8. Use the large land holding to your advantage by using the party loyalty edit (+15 loyalty) to deal with problem factions. Finally, loyalty and empire maintenance are long term projects that start on turn 1 and should be monitored throughout the game. If they become a problem in the mid to late game, it is very difficult to fix. Hope this helps.
Have not encountered this problem so do not have a specific solution. Here are some options that may solve the problem: 1. in the Steam library go to properties, local file and verify the game files. 2. Check the mod directory for any old game files, especially, beta game files, as these can cause problems. Dei requires 3 files, but once it needed 5, if any of the old files are hanging around they can cause problems. 3. This one can be tedious. If you are using submods, check the install order in the mod manager. The general rule is the the three Dei files should be the last one to load. Hope this helps.
PS, I notice you say "I can't image any reason why someone would use provoke succession" .... I think it's in the case where you want to SLAUGHTER that party leader in battle :)
Losing a party leader in battle can cause real problems as the hit to loyalty can trigger a civil war. If it is necessary make sure all parties have high loyalty as the penalty lasts several turns. To avoid problem party leaders keep an eye on their heir. If he has bad traits, e.g. thirst for power, let him die in battle after he is married. After his unfortunate death the wife can be used to bring in a replacement.
Thank you for this I was just starting a campain and didnt know I had to give them all the good stuff. Why do you see the julii cornelii and stuff and I see different factions?
To play as either the Julia, Cornelia or Junia family, you have to subscribe to the Historical Family System sub mod. There is one for each family, so only enable the sub mod of the family you want to play. This changes the family name plus generates events which give the option to recruit historical characters. There are three other sub mods which allows the selection of either Hannonid, Magonid and Barcid family when playing as Cartahge
@@Raptor-N-L Not sure, have only used it from the start of a new campaign. Even if it is 'save compatible' I am not sure if you would be able to get the historical characters.
These are paint tools that are intended for multi player, but it is possible to enable them for single player. To turn them on you need to edit a file, the file is located at: Users\\AppData\Roaming\The Creative Assembly\Rome2\scripts If you cannot see the files, they may be hidden, so you will need unhide them. In the scripts folder, should be a text file called preferences.script. Open the file with a text editor, and you will see a large number of config lines, one entry per line. which define your personal and graphic settings. search or just look down for a line starting with: ui_telestration_always_on , then change the word 'false' to 'true' and save over the the file. The next time you start Rome 2 the tools should appear.
ty. I have only tried once during an Egypt campaign, found trying to achieve it was a distraction and not worth the effort. It took several attempts to do it, so it is strategy that must be planned from the start. Managed to get there by switching Oligarchy in the first 20 turns to get the *10 loyalty, then built up the influence so it was possible to become an empire upon reaching level 5 imperium. You are right about keeping the other party generals small, so dealing with loyalty was a pain and much of the early campaign I was often one bad event away from civil war.
The principle of keeping all the faction loyalties positive does transfer, but there are differences in how this is done. Promoting wives gives loyalty, but do not think there is a bonus from the tech tree.
Athena and I had a mod gave me 100 army and fleet cap becuase I said to myself I have to declare war on people 5 turns in All the three partys had all red traits apart from one green I have korinthos b thing and a bunch of others then bam one party goes :/ I killed them all
Dude do you really understand how this works ? Cause o been paying rome since Rome.. lol since Rome 1, played Rome 2, now dei, is my favorite been playing dei For years, but I CANNOT Grasp, how or what Gives the FACTIONS, Senate control or what negates it.. It seemsnto me after Many games, The party I IGNORE, or use the least, Somehow, Becomes second in Control, or senate Authority, to My faction, and the other 2 usualy have 5 percent. THIS AGGERVATES ME TO NO END.. Gravitas, doesn't seem to matter, I can kill the big Gravitas guy in the faction, and they seem to gain control. so If you could explain WTF, Gives and takes, The senate Percentages...
How influence is calculated seems to be a black box, have never found a useful explanation of how it works. It seems that influence is allocated at the end of each turn, the amount allocated is based on the gravitas gained that turn, each factions overall influence and each characters ambition has some impact. This gives a bias towards the most influential faction and the next e more powerful faction taking influence from weaker factions. This means that once a party gets ahead it is difficult to catch and overtake them. When playing I focus on loyalty as this causes civil wars and apply a few rules that offset some to the influence problems: 1. Keep the other faction families small. At the start of the campaign try to keep the families to a single person. Then later will increase the number to two, with a max of three. 2. Keep other faction family members in armies and navies. Not sure why but characters stationed in the capital seems to add more influence especially if the have high ambition. 3. Increase the career rank of the other family character as this increases loyalty and influence for the the ruling party. Characters will level up their career on their own, but cash permitting it pays to level them up. Note: Military rank is not the same as career rank. Have found that once another party gets ahead it is difficult to catch them up. When playing Rome try to become the front runner in the early game, but it does not always work. However, do not focus on influence over loyalty as civil wars can be devastating. Hope this helps.
Agree, Politics is one area CA have never been able to implement successfully. Keep hoping they will eventually put something together in a future release.
I wish I could get into DEI. It is a really great mod, but the mod makes gameplay for newbies, all but impossible. I HATE the population types and the fact you need them for building troops. There is ZERO redeeming qualities about that system. Then there is the fact Rome starts with 2 wars and, by turn 4-5, you've lost a settlement or your class population amounts are shot. There is not even a guide series that holds a newbies hand and guides them (in serious depth) through all the DEI mechanics. It really is a shame. I would love to love the mod, but with these issues, it is a total fail imo.
DEI does have a steep learning curve with a focus on historical events. This makes playing Rome a tough start, to learn how to play would recommend playing Egypt, Seleucids or Carthage. Another problem is the AI aggression is set to make the mid/late game more challenging, so there is a mod called '1Divide et Impera Softcore Submod' which dials back the AI aggression and public order penalties to give time to get a faction up and running. Once this is done it can be switched off. The population mechanic can be a pain, it is intended to restrict the creation of armies full of elite units. Although this is not a good idea in DEI as units all have strengths and weakness, for example, a low level spear unit in defence can hold and beat a stronger sword unit. Winning battles in DEI is about tactics and knowing which unit to use. Have not played for some time so not familiar with the current game, guides have always been few and far between, simply because some mechanics can be hard to explain in a short video.
It can be a pain, but it looks worse than it is. To keep it under control a player needs to follow some basic rules: 1. Let the faction leaders lead armies, so they can fight and win battles. 2. Do not let the faction leaders die in battle, in risky situations use minor members of the ruling family, 3. Promote all female politicians to max level, this gives plenty of loyalty, cash and lower empire maintenance.
THANK YOU! I couldn't find a good political guide anywhere for the life of me! This helps sooo much!
Excellent video. Always been terrified of civil war after having a campaign go bottom up thanks to constant civil wars. Also saw some other solutions to perennial issues. Many thanks!
Hope it helps.
Interesting and informative is an understatement bruh. Thanks!!!
Ok
extremely informative, cheers!
awesome video, can you do one about everything else as well? like supplies and banditry for starters, huge fan of the game and love to know how to play them. you went very in depth with good teaching and tips
ty for the support. Banditry can be a pain and there is no way to remove it completely. The triggered events are random, so there is no point using slots for banditry reduction specific buildings. The way to deal with banditry is to build a strong economy, so when an event hits the impact is minimal.
Supplies can be intimidating, but there are some simple rules that can help you managed it:
1. If you are expanding and intend to keep regions, never loot or raze settlements.
2. Spread full stack armies across regions, only group them together in one region for 1/2 turns. This avoids the depletion of stores in a region.
3. Check a regions stores (hover cursor over the food indicator) to see how long an army can stay in region.
4. Keep enemy armies out of your border regions as these can drain the stores, making it difficult to keep armies there.
5. If a regions stores get low move armies out so they can recover.
6. When expanding into the cold north or the desert build grain pits in the province capital. The three region supply lines will allow armies to operate in the poorer regions.
7. Do not forget navies can resupply armies. When moving an army across water attach it to a navy so it will not suffer attrition. When moving an army near the coast use a navy to supply it, for example, a good way to capture the Arabian peninsular is to move armies supported by navies down the Red Sea coast.
Hope this helps
Thank you for this... I'm struggling really hard to play rotr as Rome on legendary, finally after too many tries I finally manahe to reach a good situation and...civil war.
Civil war can be a pain. Loyalty is a long term project that needs to be constantly monitored, especially in the later game. Have had a civil war triggered by another faction leader being killed in battle. Missed that it had dipped a couple of percent below zero, but it was enough to trigger a civil war.
Very thorough information, well done. I had to learn this the hard way through many head to head DEI campaigns. To help get empire maintenance to zero i put political reformer and unwavering patriot on near all my generals and admirals and only put night commander on generals and armies purpose built for PVP. I also build libraries in every province capital at tier 3 which give a further plus one. Also all tier 3 sanitation buildings give a further 0.5% (if required) making it possible to go to zero and beyond. With near everyone having political reformer which gives research and governors spec'ed for research with all the libraries you can reduce 48 turn research into maybe 10-12 turns. With this research speed you can get all the tactics technologies in a relatively short amount of time for manual battle buffs. With a bit of luck i get this going around turn 150.
ty for the tips. Had not looked at political reformer, looks useful.
@@StephenSilverbeard Thank you Stephen for reading it. You're the only one who truly goes in depth into DEI. I've learned a lot from you. It really helps out in head to head campaigns.
playing rome , had a civil war = controlled , but now i'm about another one , with your video i'm sure that not gonna happen . Thanks for your help.
What happens with a civil war? Do all the parties rebel or just the ones with negative loyalty? And when you win the civil war is the rebel party(s) destroyed? If so are they replaced with new parties?
@@rogerhill9559when a civil war happens. The family that rebelled will no longer be a part of your faction. In dei after a year or sooner a new party will take their place. The party with the lowest level of loyalty is the first to rebel.
Why am I just watching this now? (150+ turns in)
Same happened to me. I was fucked man. No auto saves or anything. 7 of my armies with all meta (OP) units turned on me and captured half of my territories. I restarted it. Lol!
I am 200 turns in, I actually enjoy civil wars thematically. Fighting the traitors legions is lots of fun to me, but both my fleets, which had carried me in the punic wars have both turned in me.......
Great video, thank you very much!
thanks mate, great video!
Thank you for this vid.. playing sparta.. civil war ruined my game.. lol! Very helpful vid..
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS
this was good, thank you.
Ty for the support
Very insightful video! I might ask how you balance faction loyalty with keeping sufficient gravitas for your own party. In vanilla, promoting and employing generals from other parties gives gravitas to those groups. How do you ensure sufficient gravitas for your own party?
Since the change to the rebellion mechanic influence is not as powerful as it was, it is more important to focus on loyalty. Have had campaigns where the influence has stayed in the middle throughout the entire game. Have not checked recently but when playing DEI high influence can have negative impact on loyalty, so pushing influence too hight cause problems in the mid/late game.
In the early game the accumulation of gravatas comes down to which general is winning battles and taking territory as this results in them levelling up. This implies the some ruling faction generals need to be on the front line, but it is important to not over develop a single general. My general rule is to use the family generals to fight the winnable battles and sieges, while conversely a general not fighting does not accumulate gravatas, so putting another faction general in an army defending a remote frontier is a way to minimising their impact. Note: Politicians gain gravatas every turn. There is an argument that keeping the faction leader a politician in the capital can increase gravatas faster than when they are leading an army. It can be a pain, but consider rotating generals as letting other faction generals win battles improves loyalty, if possible keep the faction leader in the capital then rotate them into an army that is about to capture a province , so they can get the glory. If another faction general gets too much gravatas consider giving them a heroic death on the battlefield, although check to make sue it will not give the faction negative loyalty.
Make sure all the family members are married, Wives are often overlooked, but they can have a big impact, they can be used for missions, e.g., send emissary, organise game, etc. and giving them traits the generate gravatas. Can give other faction's wives traits that reduce gravatas. In addition, after an unexpected death a wife remarrying is a cheap way to get a new general.
When the game move toward the mid/late game the value of gravatas/influence becomes less important as the negatives related of loyalty kick in, for example, the higher Imperium levels the negative loyalty debuffs are hard work . Letting other factions generals fight to gain levels that increase loyalty is far more important than influence. Have had a -1 loyalty in a other faction trigger a civil war, which in the late game is a real pain.
Finally, do not ignore traits, especially those of the heir to a faction. A key trait to watch out for is 'thirst for power' (-10 loyalty if the parties influence is less the the ruling party). if a heir has this trait make sure they have an accident on the battlefield. Killing on the battlefield will result is a temporary drop in loyalty, but it is better than have then as a faction leader. The impact of some traits depends on the what is happening, so take them into consideration when considering diplomatic actions.
Generally during a game I find managing loyalty often results in generating gravatas, hope this helps
Great video man. Helps alot.
I have one more thing tho: In the faction overview I have the malus "disdained faction leader" among other things it gives a -10 loyalty for all families. How do I get rid of it?
Traits like this is one of the annoying elements of the game, they seem to appear for no apparent reason, often when a new leader takes over. Suspect this is somehow related to the six character traits, Political rank, education, Personality, Brawler, Commander and Intellect, but have never found a pattern.
Use two strategies when this trait appears. If the leader is getting old, work on developing the heir, build up the loyalty then get the leader killed. There is an element of risk, but it can pay off. The other is more long term as it involves make the faction leader a winner. The brawler and commander traits improve based on casualties, victories and age, so the key is win battles with minimum casualties. The key is to teleport the faction leader into an army to take the good victories, winnable sieges are best. The scrapper trait is based on bodyguard casualties, so keep the general out of trouble during the battle then at the end use the unit to run down fleeing units.
Hop this all make sense.
@@StephenSilverbeard Makes sense. Thank you very much for the time and effort to respond. I'll try it out.
One party in my complain has a -80 loyalty debuff. Provincial something something. My empire is huge, and theres no way to avoid civil war that i can see. I'll literally keep giving them stuff till my damn faction leader is out of gravitas. And when the war breaks out they take with them more than 20 settlements. I have no idea what the debuff is from. It doesn't say. It says Provincial ... incentive? I don't remember now. Anyway, i have no idea what it means.
Unfortunately loyalty is a mechanic that is difficult to fix once it gets out of control because many actions have a negative impact, especially if they fail. Provincial Initiative indicates that an edict has been implemented in a province held by a faction, giving +15 loyalty. If it is negative, it is possible there is something wrong with the provinces owned by the faction, e.g. low PO, low loyalty. Have had problems due to rapid expanding too quickly, but these have impacted empire maintenance.
Part of the problem with loyalty is there is a 'black box' element to how it is calculated, for example, have been on imperium level 8 which gives -40 loyalty, but the political breakdown listed a value of -15. For this reason I regularly check loyalty, when a faction gets to around 10 look at ways to fix it, normally by promoting characters or letting the faction general win a decisive battle.
Sorry I cannot give more information,
Edit: Just been checking an old Rome save. Agents/generals in the regions owned by faction can have an impact on loyalty. Dignitaries with the demagogue trait can increase loyalty, but it is possible there are enemy agents/bad own agents in the area causing problems.
@@StephenSilverbeard I'll have to figure it out! Playing as the Selucid Empire, so i don't even have the secure loyalty option. Just provoke and purge. If i can't find a way to get around the civil war i think i might just quit the campaign, which would be a shame, since i've got max level imperium, a huge empire and even managed to hold on to several large satrapies from the beginning. Oh and i'm making more than 60k a turn. Basically i'm a power to rival rome, who i made alot of effort to be on friendly terms with. But we all know how it's gonna end. Hugescale war between two giant empires..
IF my empire doesn't tear itself apart :P
Sadly the party thats rebelling has 40-something% influence. Rivalling my own party. Furthermore, for SOME reason, it is IMPOSSIBLE to recruit more politicians to that party. There's only ever three candidates, and many times i've bought them, just to get new ones, and not a single time have i gotten candidates for that party. Party's name is "Local nobility" which also seems abit odd, so maybe there's some meta-thing going on?
I do have my taxes set on max, but positive happiness in every settlement, excluding new conquests. I guess i'll try and maybe lower taxes, see if it has an impact. I'll have to figure SOMETHING out. Cause i'm really liking playing Selucid Empire, the added dimension of keeping your satrapies happy is quite fun.
Also! Thanks alot for answering my initial comment! I must admit, i didn't expect it, since this video is years old. Class act!
@@Northernmight Its the high taxes. Increased the taxes on an old Rome campaign to very high, the most powerful family went from +53 to -118 loyalty, the breakdown showed -171 provincial initiative. Checked other campaigns, the penalty seems to relate to factions that are nearly equal or stronger than the ruling family.
My problem is that i have all senate families at +50 or so loyalty but suddenly one family goes down to -50 over just one turn (thats a 100 loyalty lost in ONE TURN) for no aparent reason and i get a message saying "high risk of civil war". Anyone know why this happens? Also my influence penatlies are stuck at maximum even though the other families control around 50% of the senate... is my campaign completely bugged?
It all started to go wierd after i won my first civil war.
This is a tricky one as it is a long time since I have fought a civil war as they are a real pain. Can only suggest checking the families loyalty in the politics tab as this will give a breakdown of what is causing the problem. Look for two entries in particular, the imperium level and general killed in battle. If you have saved a separate game during the civil war, compare the loyalty levels as this should show the difference/
Civil wars can mess with the imperium level due to provinces breaking away, after winning the imperium will rise again, in late game this could result in -30 point drop in loyalty, The general killed in battle starts at -25 (I think) and then decreases over time, Not sure if this a accumulative, but if the family leader has been killed it will have big impact. Another possibility is a member family leader has some bad traits, e.g. thirst for power.
Sorry for the limited help, can only suggest is when playing always keep loyalty positive to avoid civil wars, they are just not worth the effort.
thank you so tired of going into civil war then having ro recapture everything then BAm another civil war LOL
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A bit late for my let's play campaign but still informative. How do you allocate the regions for different families and how do you gain senate influence?
You cannot allocate regions to families, the game allocates regions according to their influence. This allocation is only really useful if you need to use the edict that increases loyalty.
Gaining influence can be a bit of a grind and generally I do not bother too much about it. I try to keep around 50% (influence Respected) as the higher benefits have little impact in the greater scheme of things. Influence is based on gravitas and can be increased by given certain answers to events, but it does not seem to change much. The best way to increase gravitas is to use the faction leader and family members to fight and win battles, but it is still a grind and can reduce loyalty.
I find that keeping loyalty in the positive and keeling empire maintenance low makes it possible to ignore influence.
Hope this helps.
@@StephenSilverbeard Cheers m8, I'm a little far into my let's play campaign but will try to implemente some of your tips to correct my campaign.
Tbh I'm pretty rich atm, we are at 50% influence and we have good standings with the other families. So I must have done something right..... dunno what though....
But this helps me alot, thx dude....
PS: Won't having generals from other families give control over regions? The question is, how does my family gain control over a region.... ?
@@DoubleYouTee The regions are automatically allocated according to each families influence. Also after a major expansion they can get moved around, so it pays to check the map from time to time.
So the difference with other mods is here its a chance off civil war when it's -5 and for example Para bellum is when its -15 to -20 chance off civil war?
Not sure about other mods, but In the base game and Dei there is a small chance of civil war once the percentage drops below 0%. The few times I have had it happen is when a 'key' general e.g. faction or minor family leader, has been lost in battle taking the percentage below zero,
I think a big confusion is how does loyalty actually apply. I always assumed what I wanted was to acquire loyalty to *my party faction* ... but, rather loyalty means towards Rome itself. In the past I was afraid that "bonus loyalty for this characters party" was a negative! And I think a lot of folk would think it too, the counter intuitive nature of the wording in game is problematic.
Basic intuition makes players think "it's my party against theirs"... but no, what you really want is all parties to be loyal to Rome. Everyone get along.
Edit: I notice in your video you said "she is producing +6 loyalty to their various factions".... honestly it this kind of statement that is confusing players. Rather, what she's doing is increasing loyalty *of* her party faction *toward* Rome. It's not your fault this mechanic is confused but we TW fanboys need to be careful, do our part to correct the confusion.
Rome is more complex than the other factions, many players confuse loyalty with power in the senate. Another cause for confusion was the previous civil war mechanic was based on power, so powerful parties would trigger the event. The situation is not helped by the wording of some hints as it is not clear who is benefiting from loyalty bonus.
This is an old video, since it was made the loyalty bonus from levelled up wives has been nerfed, but it remains worth doing.
@@StephenSilverbeard speaking of complexity, I really think traits should be scaled back so I don't have to juggle in my mind a thousand effects. Characters under the age of 30 should have, say, no more than 2 traits. And traits acquisition slowed down so the sixth trait only arrives around say 60 years old... I want to love this game but it's exhausting to play it in a rigorous way.
@@inexpedientone4854 Like the idea, unfortunately the mod team have to work within the framework provided by CA. it is unlikely CA will be interested in revisiting legacy games, all we can hope they will produce an update historical title.
@@StephenSilverbeard actually years ago I was in to modding and I know there are numerous things can be done to tone down the character/factional effects. Seems like mod makers haven't quite got the message that roles and roles of effects are cumbersome and for me game breaking. I know ppl have complained but the modders tend to make minimal adjustments when in reality massive scaling to the downside is what the game really needs. Playing as is, is a total headache. End up just ignoring charcater effects.. focus on buildings, diplomacy, and battles.
If you have a "no new party creation" mod then civil wars are useful.
Have the admit the broken civil war mechanic has made to adverse to triggering one. May be it is time to trigger one to see what happens. :))
I play Seleucid campaign, I kepe having civil wars with a random family who somehow takes the 60 percent of the empire, my question is, how do i avoid a family having always so much influence, how do i keep more influence over terretories? It seems no matter how much loyalty but if they have more influence over settlements you basicly conquering the world for that family.
The Seleucids are interesting as the Macedonian Nobility start with with Mesopotania, which is bigger than the Syria. Loyalty and influence are two different mechanics, with negative loyalty triggering civil wars. I take a Medieval approach towards influence and the territory occupied, that is the other factions may be large land owners, but they are still vassals of the faction leader. Thus I generally ignore who owns what, but do keep a close eye on loyalty.
Civil wars are random events so even a 1% risk on the summary page is bad news after the first 20 turns. Would take it further by saying any faction with negative loyalty needs to immediate attention.
Here are some additional tips that may help:
1, When recruiting generals aim to have max two characters in each other party faction. That is the leader and the heir, this makes it possible to see if the heir has bad traits. If the family has a bad trait, e.g. thirst for power, consider recruit a third so they can get married (see below).
2, Make sure all the other characters are married and their wife has level 4 experience. This gives a +12 loyalty to each faction.
3. All ruling family actions, marriages, promotions, etc have a negative impact on loyalty, it show as political actions, which take a long time to fade. Before doing these actions always check the loyalty of the other parties. Never do multiple actions in a single turn.
4, Getting the leader of a other parties leader has a major impact on loyalty and has a multiple turn cool down. For this reason do not take risks with these generals, in dangerous situation swap them out for a family member.
5. Following on from point 4, a good strategy is to put the other party leaders in navies so they can gain experience and use the heirs as generals. If you want to develop a party leader in the early game, swap them into an army for an easy win and then swap them out to keep them safe.
6. Always check the Philosophy tech tree, it varies from faction to faction, but getting some levels into this in the early game can give bonuses to loyalty and influence with the added bonus of reduced empire maintenance. This tech tree should be complete by the time your empire hits Imperium level 5.
7 Never send male characters on diplomatic missions, the risk of getting them killed is too high. Diplomacy is the realm of wives and daughters.
8. Use the large land holding to your advantage by using the party loyalty edit (+15 loyalty) to deal with problem factions.
Finally, loyalty and empire maintenance are long term projects that start on turn 1 and should be monitored throughout the game. If they become a problem in the mid to late game, it is very difficult to fix.
Hope this helps.
my game keeps on crashing when civil war is triggered. Does someone know how I can fix this?
Have not encountered this problem so do not have a specific solution. Here are some options that may solve the problem:
1. in the Steam library go to properties, local file and verify the game files.
2. Check the mod directory for any old game files, especially, beta game files, as these can cause problems. Dei requires 3 files, but once it needed 5, if any of the old files are hanging around they can cause problems.
3. This one can be tedious. If you are using submods, check the install order in the mod manager. The general rule is the the three Dei files should be the last one to load.
Hope this helps.
PS, I notice you say "I can't image any reason why someone would use provoke succession" .... I think it's in the case where you want to SLAUGHTER that party leader in battle :)
Losing a party leader in battle can cause real problems as the hit to loyalty can trigger a civil war. If it is necessary make sure all parties have high loyalty as the penalty lasts several turns. To avoid problem party leaders keep an eye on their heir. If he has bad traits, e.g. thirst for power, let him die in battle after he is married. After his unfortunate death the wife can be used to bring in a replacement.
@@StephenSilverbeard interesting
Thank you for this I was just starting a campain and didnt know I had to give them all the good stuff. Why do you see the julii cornelii and stuff and I see different factions?
To play as either the Julia, Cornelia or Junia family, you have to subscribe to the Historical Family System sub mod. There is one for each family, so only enable the sub mod of the family you want to play. This changes the family name plus generates events which give the option to recruit historical characters.
There are three other sub mods which allows the selection of either Hannonid, Magonid and Barcid family when playing as Cartahge
Ok thanks is it save compatible?
@@Raptor-N-L Not sure, have only used it from the start of a new campaign. Even if it is 'save compatible' I am not sure if you would be able to get the historical characters.
Does this loyalty tactic also work in the vanilla game?
The loyalty mechanic is the basically the same in Divide et Impera and vanilla so the tactics should be valid for both.
Question Stephen, how do you get the three palettes over the minimap? I've only ever seen you use them and I'd like to use them myself.
These are paint tools that are intended for multi player, but it is possible to enable them for single player. To turn them on you need to edit a file, the file is located at:
Users\\AppData\Roaming\The Creative Assembly\Rome2\scripts
If you cannot see the files, they may be hidden, so you will need unhide them.
In the scripts folder, should be a text file called preferences.script. Open the file with a text editor, and you will see a large number of config lines, one entry per line. which define your personal and graphic settings. search or just look down for a line starting with:
ui_telestration_always_on , then change the word 'false' to 'true' and save over the the file. The next time you start Rome 2 the tools should appear.
You need 65% influence to change the government type to 'empire', so lots of other party generals can hinder that, have you tried that strat?
ty. I have only tried once during an Egypt campaign, found trying to achieve it was a distraction and not worth the effort. It took several attempts to do it, so it is strategy that must be planned from the start. Managed to get there by switching Oligarchy in the first 20 turns to get the *10 loyalty, then built up the influence so it was possible to become an empire upon reaching level 5 imperium. You are right about keeping the other party generals small, so dealing with loyalty was a pain and much of the early campaign I was often one bad event away from civil war.
It's easy let them fight for you
If you want to provoke a C-war, to get rid of a bad family/party? Just keep upen up the negative for the family?
Civil war can be interesting, although, it can take a long time to recover from the them.
Does this transfer to stabdtard Rome /
The principle of keeping all the faction loyalties positive does transfer, but there are differences in how this is done. Promoting wives gives loyalty, but do not think there is a bonus from the tech tree.
Athena and I had a mod gave me 100 army and fleet cap becuase I said to myself I have to declare war on people 5 turns in
All the three partys had all red traits apart from one green
I have korinthos b thing and a bunch of others then bam one party goes
:/ I killed them all
Dude do you really understand how this works ? Cause o been paying rome since Rome.. lol since Rome 1, played Rome 2, now dei, is my favorite been playing dei For years, but I CANNOT Grasp, how or what Gives the FACTIONS, Senate control or what negates it.. It seemsnto me after Many games, The party I IGNORE, or use the least, Somehow, Becomes second in Control, or senate Authority, to My faction, and the other 2 usualy have 5 percent. THIS AGGERVATES ME TO NO END..
Gravitas, doesn't seem to matter, I can kill the big Gravitas guy in the faction, and they seem to gain control. so If you could explain WTF, Gives and takes, The senate Percentages...
How influence is calculated seems to be a black box, have never found a useful explanation of how it works. It seems that influence is allocated at the end of each turn, the amount allocated is based on the gravitas gained that turn, each factions overall influence and each characters ambition has some impact. This gives a bias towards the most influential faction and the next e more powerful faction taking influence from weaker factions. This means that once a party gets ahead it is difficult to catch and overtake them. When playing I focus on loyalty as this causes civil wars and apply a few rules that offset some to the influence problems:
1. Keep the other faction families small. At the start of the campaign try to keep the families to a single person. Then later will increase the number to two, with a max of three.
2. Keep other faction family members in armies and navies. Not sure why but characters stationed in the capital seems to add more influence especially if the have high ambition.
3. Increase the career rank of the other family character as this increases loyalty and influence for the the ruling party. Characters will level up their career on their own, but cash permitting it pays to level them up.
Note: Military rank is not the same as career rank.
Have found that once another party gets ahead it is difficult to catch them up. When playing Rome try to become the front runner in the early game, but it does not always work. However, do not focus on influence over loyalty as civil wars can be devastating.
Hope this helps.
This video is 42 min? Ok I have my answer thank you :) I usually skip the class.
The politics mechanic is what poisons this game for me. Boring and frustrating micromanagement.
Agree, Politics is one area CA have never been able to implement successfully. Keep hoping they will eventually put something together in a future release.
I wish I could get into DEI. It is a really great mod, but the mod makes gameplay for newbies, all but impossible. I HATE the population types and the fact you need them for building troops. There is ZERO redeeming qualities about that system. Then there is the fact Rome starts with 2 wars and, by turn 4-5, you've lost a settlement or your class population amounts are shot. There is not even a guide series that holds a newbies hand and guides them (in serious depth) through all the DEI mechanics.
It really is a shame. I would love to love the mod, but with these issues, it is a total fail imo.
DEI does have a steep learning curve with a focus on historical events. This makes playing Rome a tough start, to learn how to play would recommend playing Egypt, Seleucids or Carthage.
Another problem is the AI aggression is set to make the mid/late game more challenging, so there is a mod called '1Divide et Impera Softcore Submod' which dials back the AI aggression and public order penalties to give time to get a faction up and running. Once this is done it can be switched off.
The population mechanic can be a pain, it is intended to restrict the creation of armies full of elite units. Although this is not a good idea in DEI as units all have strengths and weakness, for example, a low level spear unit in defence can hold and beat a stronger sword unit. Winning battles in DEI is about tactics and knowing which unit to use.
Have not played for some time so not familiar with the current game, guides have always been few and far between, simply because some mechanics can be hard to explain in a short video.
IMHO they ruined the game with this political stuff.The game is called total war not total politics Jesus
It can be a pain, but it looks worse than it is. To keep it under control a player needs to follow some basic rules:
1. Let the faction leaders lead armies, so they can fight and win battles.
2. Do not let the faction leaders die in battle, in risky situations use minor members of the ruling family,
3. Promote all female politicians to max level, this gives plenty of loyalty, cash and lower empire maintenance.
it's ROME total war, Rome is always about politics
War is politics thru other means, the name of the game its politics , war is just a subset of it
Great video! Thank you!