How To PERFECT Your Japanese Pronunciation In 32.8 Minutes
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- Every Japanese Learner should learn Japanese Pitch Accent before they're able to speak because learning Pitch Accent is extremely fast and easy.
It's a crazy mystery why Pitch Accent is not more commonly taught as it only really takes 1 lesson to learn what Pitch Accent is, and a few minutes of practice here and there to develop a PASSIVE ABILITY to hear the correct pitch in immersion.
Some people like to frame it as if learning Pitch Accent is this long arduous task that only the most committed of learners would dare to undertake, but the truth that is that everybody can do it given the right tools.
#PitchAccent #nihongo #japan
Links mentioned in the video:
Migaku Pitch Trainer ONE MONTH FREE:
→ migaku.com/signup?code=Juls&l...
Kotu.io Free Japanese Pitch Accent Minimal Pairs test
→ kotu.io/tests/pitchAccent/min...
Migaku Minimal Pairs test:
→ pitch.migaku.io/
Piano Minimal Pairs test:
→ www.musicca.com/exercises/cir...
→ www.musicca.com/exercises/cir...
Dogen's playlist:
→ • Japanese pitch-accent ...
Anki Pitch Accent Graph & Quick Color Changer setup:
→ • 5 Life Changing Anki A...
TTS Bots:
→ www.gavo.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/ojad/...
→ ttsmp3.com/text-to-speech/Jap...
Native Japanese Audio:
→ forvo.com/
→ hinative.com/en-US
🎬 Timestamps:
00:00 Everybody Should Learn Pitch Accent Before Speaking
01:25 Introduction to the 4 Pitch Accent Patterns
02:54 1 Drill to Train your Pitch Accent
04:12 How to integrate Pitch Accent into Anki
05:14 WARNINGS
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Follow along this video with the Migaku Pitch Trainer and get ONE MONTH FREE using this link: migaku.io/free-month/Juls
Another alternative for finding native pronunciations is youglish. It has a Japanese version. It gives you a search bar that will give you, often times, multiple dozens of UA-cam videos opened straight to the word or words you typed in along with accompanying Japanese subtitles (no furigana but AMAZING combo with Yomitan)! Just note, sentences are hit or miss. Best not to go more than 2 or 3 words + particles.
YouGlish is a way to find example sentences for words but not the best option for finding readings. Forvo simply works better for this- common words and phrases are usually already there.
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Even when it comes to looking for example sentences, a lot of the time the YouGlish sample sentences are quite long and aren't fit for Anki.
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It really is a last ditch desperate option when you've exhausted all your options like HiNative as well.
I had no idea how much I need this video ^^ thank you
Glad the algorithm decided to suggest it to you! Thanks very much for watching and happy it helped! :D
Another helpful video Jouzu, keep up the great work
Thank you very much for watching and commenting! Glad you found the video helpful! :D
This video truly convinces me to learn pitch accent, although I can easily perceive the difference between the sound of the Japanese language, and also based on that my native language Portuguese has truly similar sounds to Japanese, I think it's a beneficial boost to my pronunciation, and perception of this particular intonation, thank you for creating this, I going try to use Migaku, and see Dogen videos about it. Nice work! Your videos have been really helpful on my journey of learning Japanese, keep jouzu dude!
That's awesome to hear man! Glad the video was able to convince you to try this out, your pronunciation will definitely see great improvements over time!
This video was actually really helpful
I'm about twice your age and from Europe. The beauty of the internet (and the youtube algorithm) made it possible to find your very useful videos which now help me in my Japanese learning. Thank you.
Bless the algorithm! Hope your Japanese learning journey is going smoothly and thank you for watching!
@@JouzuJuls Thanks for the reply.
Also, your mahjong videos are great. I got into mahjong through Like a dragon and was looking for this kind of content to get better at it. 👌 Looking forward to more videos (but get well first; your health is more important than video content).
I always encourage studying pitch accent! As such I just have to point out that せ↑か↓い is not wrong! Some words like せ↓かい/せ↑か↓い have two accepted pronunciations listed in the 明新解 and NHK pitch-accent dictionaries with usually the first one being more common. Although, this can be a hassle for learners, so from the point of view of making easy to learn, I recommend just choosing one of the accepted pronunciations and sticking to that one.
First of all I appreciate the comment, but would just like to add a few things here.
1. せかい is only pronounced atamadaka, even in 新明解, and NHK (1998).
2. The "multiple pronunciations" is not random and exists for a very good reason. It is because in compound words, the result is often nakadaka. For example, 世界 is atamadaka, and 記録 is heiban. The compound word 世界記録 is 1 single word, and thus the pitch changes to nakadaka for the entire thing as 1 entity. It is a mistake to treat 世界 here as heiban, because otherwise you would need to treat 記録 as "HHL", which doesn't exist.
3. "Choosing one of the accepted pronunciations and sticking to it" should not be recommended, as learners have no say in which pronunciation to go for. If learning the standard dialect, one should simply observe how people who use the standard dialect pronounce the words in isolation, and use whatever that is. Obviously if learning other dialects, just sample from people speaking other dialects. It's not a "choice" for the learner, it is the result of observation and research.
Additional note:
Certain words like 何 ARE listed with multiple pronunciations in NHK. This is also not random either. 何 is usually pronounced atamadaka, except when you are using what's called a "a negative polarity item"- such as in the case of 何もない. So there is once again, a reason and certain criteria that must be met for a word to be pronounced differently.
I'm not saying EVERYTHING has a clear and concise rule for which pronunciation to use, 世論 for example can be pronounced せ↑ろん、せ↓ろん、よ↓ろん. Note that よ↑ろん is not listed despite you using this in the compound word 世論調査, this is again because it's a compound word.
That being said, it's again, not up to the learners CHOICE which of the 3 readings to learn. In this video: ua-cam.com/video/zFsD68TjBzY/v-deo.html, I showed a website where you can enter in Kanji to find out which is the most common reading in real life, and another website which searches UA-cam for all the times a certain word has been said so that you can see which is the most common reading.
Again, learners should be concerned with understanding the word as they encounter it in input. "making a choice" is not a factor- they must seek the correct input and learn based on that.
I like that you included Dr Garuda into your editing ^^
Great video!
The dude is INSANE! Thanks for watching and commenting!
God tier content, thank you so much.
Thank you very much! Glad the video was helpful!
Your videos are super helpful
Glad they were of use to you! Please do help share the video with people you think this video would help as well! :D
Very good video!
Thank you!
this makes me overwhelmed with how much i need to learn for japanese 😅
Languages are complex with many different facets and things to learn, it takes years to master and that's why it's fun, challenging, and rewarding once you get good 😎
The ability to hear pitch accent can be developed with just a little bit of practice, so take it easy and work things one at a time!
@@JouzuJuls yes thank you :D
this video is amazing
Thank you very much! Glad you enjoyed it!
@@JouzuJuls if you don't already have one, i think u should start a tiktok for your japanese learning stuff. i and a lot of others would love to get short-form japanese language tips every day, and it'll def bring more viewers to your channel. your editing is vry professional and fun to watch n will probably do well on tiktok.
@@dotquack1 Tik Tok is not available in HK unfortunately, I'll probably put shorts out on this channel tho!
@@JouzuJuls unfortunate.
YES, ANOTHER HELOFUL PITCH ACCENT VIDEO GETTING RECOMMENDED TO ME
Glad to hear that the algorithm is doing it's job! Hope you enjoyed the video!
@@deotexh Not sure I understand the question. It works the same way as it normally works.
For example the sentence:
私は犬です。
私 is heiban meaning the は stays high
犬 is odaka so the い starts low, ぬ goes high, です goes low.
You can double check this using the Prosody Tutor Suzuki Kun that I mentioned in the vid and linked in the desc.
If you can hear the highs and lows properly, it doesn't make a difference whether it's in a sentence or just a word.
@@JouzuJuls Ok ok, because some people tell it stays the same, others say that it will stay high until there's a downstep in a word but else every heiban say high, or that the whole sentence is LHHHHHHL
I'm just so lost but thanks! :D x)
@@deotexh Just develop the ability to hear highs and lows by practicing with the pitch trainer.
Then use the Suzuki Kun site to help visualize the pitch. You'll be able to hear it for yourself.
It is 100% not different for a whole sentence. Only certain phrases will have different pitches, which is why it's not worth memorizing the pitch. Just keep moving forward and your brain will auto learn it as long as you can actually hear it.
5:25 FWIW, 背景 is an example of a word where it's arguably the dictionaries that are "wrong", not the audio. It is traditionally heiban, but most normal people pronounce it atamadaka these days, and the dictionaries haven't caught up. (That said, your point about needing to be careful about the audio sample you select is of course correct.)
Yes, I made a post specifically about this. The NHK Pitch Accent dictionary was last updated in 2016 and 背景 has NOT been given an Atamadaka pronunciation yet despite other words getting it.
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The whole "right and wrong" really depends on who you think the authority is- the dictionaries or the people.
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I side with the dictionaries. Just because many people say "Could of" instead of "Could've" doesn't make it right.
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But yes you are right! It is a very interesting point and I might make a video pondering this question in the future.
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And absolutely you must pay attention when the graph says one thing but the sound says another 😁
@@JouzuJuls I don't quite agree with your parallel to contractions in writing. Writing standards tend to be quite rigid and slow-moving, while pronunciation (especially pitch accent in Japanese) changes notably per generation. If someone wants to speak with a similar accent to people their age, I think it's best to stick with copying the actual accents used by people in the target group. There are hundreds of words in NHK 2016 where the recommend (and sometimes only) accent listed is not the most common accent among people
@@djahandarie Excellent point for consideration! Thank you!
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Also would you mind if I included this thread in a future video?
@@JouzuJuls No problem.
@@djahandarie "I think it's best to stick with copying the actual accents used by people in the target group.", well, how would you do it then?
Hey Jouzu! Sorry if this is late, but since you said that Yomichan is frequently incorrect with their audio pronunciations (and idk where else to get audio to put into my anki decks), what else can I use? Wouldn't it be tedious to look up a single word and then download its audio to put into anki individually? Is there a more efficient way? Thanks!!
Hey, sorry for the late response! This video answers your question: ua-cam.com/video/rs1FagV3_j8/v-deo.html
Thanks!@@JouzuJuls
Well
My yomichan got the pitch correct for 背景
do you happen to know any twitch streamers you'd recommend for immersion? I have a couple of jp streamers I really like but most of them don't do a lot of talking so i eventually just end up getting bored or just immersed in the gameplay rather than practicing my comprehension
I don't use Twitch. And there's usually not that many Japanese people on Twitch anyway. You'll get much better millage on UA-cam instead. If you're really desperate, you can search on mildom or niconico too.
Some search terms that may help you out are:
配信 -- livestream
切り抜き -- clips
雑談 -- "just chatting"
@@JouzuJuls thanks for replying man! ill try these out. didnt know youtube was more popular than twitch in jp
this channel is criminally underrated
Thank you very much! If you'd like to help others out by showing them how easy it really is to learn pitch, please share the video around too!
@@JouzuJuls Sure
Very informative video! I know I am complaining on a very high level but the suzuki-kun audio has a weird bugging and humming sound in it. Does anybody else have this or is it just because it is generated?
Nice to see you again! Suzuki-Kun's audio is the most un-human sounding out of all the TTS that I've used, but it is the only one that is 99% pitch accurate and allows you to attenuate the pitch. What you're hearing is probably just part of what it is.
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There is only ONE option that sounds a little bit better but it takes forever to set up and I don't think it's worth the hassle. (You basically have to set up vocaloid software and download a specific custom voice; in laymen terms, pain in the ass).
Just got embarrassing results doing the minimal pairs test for the first time. (63 of 104)
Though at first I was getting literally all of them wrong, by the end I could do it with maybe 50-60% accuracy. Although I'm not sure if I should be not only trying to answer them correctly, but also identify which specific pattern it is.
can atamadaka go HHL or is it always the FIRST is high and the rest low ?
Similarly, can nakadaka go LLH..HL with not just the FIRST being low ?
Can heiban/odaka go LLH.. or is it always just the FIRST being low ?
There's a pitch accent rule I forgot to mention in this video. The first and second Kana MUST be different pitch. If it starts L, it must go H next, and vice versa.
I love the Migaku Pitch Trainer, however I got a problem that I can't fix. Whenever I log in the placement test and the learn session is working, the train now session is not working however. It's just a grey background and nothing is happening. When I logout and try the same everything is working perfectly. Anyone with the same problem or an idea how to fix it ?
if your browser's cash is too full sometimes it causes you some problems. I haven't used migaku yet.😊
I've signed up to Migaku and started my placement test but how are you meant to navigate to the pitch trainer unless you know the URL? I couldn't see anything about it on their website and had to come back to your video so that I could grab the URL from your browser.
That's... A good question...? I'll forward this to the Migaku team as an issue. I usually just type "pitch" into the URL bar and let the autocomplete finish it.
@@JouzuJuls Glad to know it wasn't me being blind! Thanks for the informative video!!
I put the pitch accent in the reading field yet I am not able to see them when going through my anki cards. Does anyone know the fix here?
I have a feeling I know what's wrong but I just want to be sure. Send a screenshot in #japanese-en on the Discord server. discord.gg/3FnQBnS
Make sure the READ THE #RULES before engaging on the server please.
Can you do a detailed video for the folks like me who don't have any musical background and can't hear the pitch?
I have no musical background either, use the websites I've linked in the description which use Piano pitches to train your ears first if you have trouble hearing pitch in words.
which dictionary is he using at minute 4:51?
It's probably the Yoga Accent dictionary displayed in Migaku.
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Are you using Migaku Already?
If not, learn more here: ua-cam.com/video/45_TwPlhvGE/v-deo.html
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All the dictionaries I use are available here:
ua-cam.com/video/qK5Gwl72vkk/v-deo.html
I thought I have to pass the lessons in the migaku pitch trainer before I can start using train now and custom session. Still can't pass the Nakadaka Test even though I can differentiate the other patterns quite fine. Also during Immersion I just can't get myself to think about the pitch, I simply don't need it to understand stuff so I don't feel very conscious about it which also leads to me not thinking much about pitch during output either. Very difficult topic for me to be honest. I think the problem I have with Nakadaka is, I can hear it's Nakadaka but I always get the exact position of the drop wrong.
What you're saying is exactly why the pitch trainer is super useful. You can use it to identify a particular weakness and drill that specifically.
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There's no need to conciously be aware at all times of pitch during immersion- remember that immersion and training/mining are different things. If you're constantly thinking of other things, you're not really "immersed" are you?
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Furthermore, I started doing pitch training REALLY early on. Only a year of immersion later did I start having kneejerk reactions when someone says something wrong (similar to if someone says something in English weird).
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So that's the point of this video, train your ability to hear ups and downs when you're concentrating to develop and unconcious, passive skill. A year of immersion later, youll find that you've magically picked it up.
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This video is NOT "do this one drill and you will immediately be able to identify every pitch in every sentence and say it correctly too."
Try taking a break from learning Japanese for a while. It helps. There are even studies that show that taking a few day or even months off help you learn better. Pushing yourself too hard just makes hard and painful. Don't ask me how I know. 😂😂😂
I agree with what George Trombley says about pitch accent, don't waste your time trying ot learn it.
You're wasting more time by NOT learning it. George has been exposed for having horrible pitch accent and trying to teach it while at the same time admitting to having bad pronunciation.
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By watching this video, I reveal how much time it actually takes to learn how to identify pitch and how you're wasting time by not learning pitch.
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Perhaps it would be wise to take advice from the people who have actually put in the effort to learn something as opposed to those who haven't.
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Taking Geoge Trombley's advice on learning pitch is like taking Matt vs Japan's advice on how to start a legitimate business.
@JouzuJuls
It sounds like a ton of work adding pitch accent to my cards. When that time could be spend building vocabulary and grammar.
do you know a place to read raw manga for free?
Unfortunately no. I usually go to the store to buy physical copies of my manga.
Mangadex is good for english, I don't know where you can find raw manga though
This is off topic but I’m curious about your opinion on dual subtitles. A set back or useful?
The short answer is that they are 100% useful. To quote from Dr. Stephen Krashen, "Anything that helps you get comprehensible input, helps you acquire the language".
The long answer where I debunk that Spanish research paper showing that "native language subtitles give a 0% increase in language ability" is in this video here (timestamped): ua-cam.com/video/E6j5CphUJBc/v-deo.html
@@JouzuJuls THANK YOU!
...What if I don't want the Tokyo accent? Do I still need this?
Sorry for the late reply, I just saw this comment. You should decide on which accent you want to go for and just stick with it. If you're planning on staying in Osaka for a while or something, it may make more sense to learn the Osaka dialect (Kanseiben) than the Tokyo dialect. The important part is staying consistent within the accent so you don't flip flop between the two.
The advise in this video is still useful as being able to simply hear what's high pitch and low pitch allows you to mimic what you hear. If you don't train your ears, you won't be able to correctly hear pitch in the first place, which means you won't be able to replicate it :)
Your Japanese can be understood in context with the wrong pitch...words are spoken in context, not in isolation. Context convey's meaning more than pitch...People can understand you if you say I'll meet you at the "chopsticks"...rather than I'll meet you at the "bridge". It's a good idea to learn pitch. It's not necessary to be understood in Japanese.
HA↑HA↓HA↑HA↓HA↑
Oh no! How could I have left out the 5th pitch pattern, Pekodaka!
If I sound like an Eskimo speaking Japanese then that’s fine by me.
Pitch accent is a waste of time, don't bother studying such a thing.
Pronunciation is all about paying close attention to how native speakers pronounce and then try to emulate their pronunciation.
Your pronunciation should be understandable. As long as native speakers can understand what you are saying, then that is enough. It doesn't matter if you pronounce SHINjuku or shinJUku, most native speakers will probably understand either pronunciation.
Japan has a large number of different accents and dialects, it is much more important to learn and understand the accent of the local people around you, than try to master the Tokyo accent.
There is nothing wrong with an accent. Everybody has an accent. In English, there is American accent, British accent, Australian accent, etc. There is no right or wrong accent.
An American moving to the UK does not need to change his accent to British. As long as he can communicate with the locals, he can keep his own native accent.
Foreigners will always speak with a very characteristic foreign accent. Arnold Schwarzenegger speaks English with a German accent, Sofia Vergara speaks English with a hispanic accent. There is nothing wrong with an accent.
As long as native speakers can understand you, there is no need to change or improve your accent.
The wacky editing is not "engaging", it's boring
it’s an educational video about intonation in japanese? what exactly were you expecting?
Ratio
Wack to you but educative to others.
Learn to be appreciative of people's work and stop being unnecessarily fọolish.
Free Month? So that pitch training not only documented poorly, hard to find a jisho with complete pitch accent but you need to pay that?
Nah, useless. Perfect your す つ さ しゃ に ぬぃ pronunciation first with their other nightmares, don't waste with this thing. I'm serious, why not Japanese in my country bother to perfect their accents? Because it's a waste of the time, why I do vise versa?
I don't see any benefit about this until you want to be a seiyuu or just a linguoholic.
Let me address your comment 1 point at a time, and please let me know if I got any of your points wrong.
1. You have a problem with Migaku being paid.
Response: I literally mentioned the free option before mentioning the paid option. Furthermore, Migaku includes way more than just the pitch trainer, that's just part of the package. The main usage of Migaku is to automatically identify N+1 sentences in immersion and automatically create anki cards for them with native speaker audio, example sentences, and images.
2. Pitch training is documented poorly.
Response: I disagree with this as there is clear documentation on Migaku that teaches you everything about pitch that is very simple to undersand. It goes into even more detail than my brief snippet in this video. I still think Dogen is the best source though.
3. Hard to find jisho with complete pitch accent.
Response: I'm not sure what you mean by "complete" pitch accent. What is "incomplete" pitch accent?
If you have a hard time finding dictionaries that list a words pitch, I've already given a few out before.
In this video teaching you how to install Yomichan:
ua-cam.com/video/qK5Gwl72vkk/v-deo.html
I provide 3 dictionaries that include pitch. They are the 新明解国語辞典 Jp - Jp dictionary. ヨガ日本語アクセント辞典, a pure pitch dictionary. And Kajium Pitch Accents, another pure pitch dictionary.
If you would like an online dictionary, japandict.com also lists pitch.
4. Pitch Accent is useless. Don't waste your time.
Response: This completely depends on what your response to this question is:
"Do you want to learn good Japanese, or do you want to learn bad Japanese?"
A lot of people try to weasle out of this and say "I want to be able to communicate" or "as long as I'm understood, it's ok". But that doesn't answer the question. Because you can speak bad Japanese and still be understood.
Being "understood" is a matter of spending time immersing in the language and acquiring it. You will still need to do this REGARDLESS of whether you study pitch or not.
So for example, if you spent 4000 hours immersing and become a pretty good speaker without spending those 1.5 hours learning pitch, you would be able to communicate in Japanese, but your Japanese would still be pretty bad because you've been completely oblivious to pitch for those 4000 hours.
Conversely, had someone spend 1.5 hours to practice pitch, they would still have been able to put in 3998.5 hours into immersion. The difference in communication ability between someone who immersed 4000 hours and someone who immersed 3998.5 hours is unnoticable- yet the person who spend the 1.5 hours studying pitch would actually have developped good Japanese.
This is exactly what the supermarket analogy in the begining of the video represents. If the person who spent 4000 hours then realizes how bad their Japanese actually is and tried to fix it, they would need to further immerse another 3998.5 hours in THE EXACT SAME CONTENT to get their pitch up to the same level. Why would you want to spend another 4000 hours when you could spend 1.5 hours ahead of time?
5. す つ さ しゃ に ぬぃ are nightmares
Response: No clue what you mean here. Speaking Japanese well is a combination of a lot of different factors. Pitch accent is just one of them. I never said you should study pitch accent and ignore phonetics.
6. why not Japanese in my country bother to perfect their accents?
Response: Again, not sure what you mean. Do you mean "Why do Japanese *learners* in my country not bother perfecting their pitch accent?" Because in that case it's very simple. Most teachers and textbooks are simply not aware of Pitch Accent and thus don't teach it. The same way they are not aware of Japanese grammar structure and try to impose "Eihongo" structure onto everything.
You arrived on the conclusion that it's a "waste of time". So you're telling me that you're learning Japanese and can dedicate hours of time for years on end to immerse in the language- but you cannot spare 30 minutes to learn pitch? But you also would be willing to spend another 4000 hours re-immersing in the same content when you realize you actually DO want to speak good Japanese? I think the +4000 hours is a bigger waste of time.
You also seem to confuse "Pitch Accent" for "Accent" which is incorrect. English for example can be spoken in many accents and still be correct.
Pitch Accent is a linguistic term defining the ups and downs of a word. If you speak with the wrong Pitch Accent WITHIN a certain Accent, you are saying the word WRONG.
Different ACCENTS speak different words differently, but nobody speaks 1 sentence with 3 different ACCENTS.
7. "I don't see any benefit"
Response: The benefit is that you'll achieve the goal of speaking good Japanese.
I honestly don't know a single person who says "I want to learn Bad Japanese". Those that ignore pitch usually go "as long as I'm understood, it's ok" and completely forget that it takes the EXACT SAME amount of effort to be understood, whether you study pitch or not. They also think that "being understood" somehow answers the question of "do you want to learn it good or bad".
"My priority is to be understood so pitch can wait" is also complete nonsense. Again, in the time it would take you to acquire the language and develop the ability to be understood- ALL of that time can ALSO be used as pitch training AT THE SAME TIME.
So conversely, there is actually no benefit in NOT learning pitch. This is why everybody should do so before it's too late.
@Afuyan 亜風実 I hope you read this and take a few days to digest the information before responding. And I hope this will be able to clear things up so you can start practicing your pitch as well :)
@@JouzuJuls Nope, I don't need. Accent or pitch accent are different but do you ever heard standard Malay (Indonesian) accent pattern in 80's? No they don't, that's that's why until today there's always Japanese really speak poor Malay and Javanese, wrong intonation, wrong topical pitch pattern, wrong affix tone. Why do I bother to do versa? Sorry, I don't need that until I masocist enough. Do we stupid enough to not understand homophones because of wrong accent pattern? No, we're not stupid, that's works to Japanese too.
And, I don't think you're thinking Japanese people are stupid because of can't understand the context. You can ask all Japanese native teachers, look at the majority will say pronunciation is important, not that "curryokay" or "sunamay". Just because your native is English that's only English-speaking people problem to the world.
Since the last comment is always removed, I don't need to respond this anymore. Do what do you want as a linguo-maniac.