How Hindus appropriate Atheism: A Dance of Definitions
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 жов 2023
- Support this channel by becoming a member / @vimoh
Or make a one-time donation by clicking the Super Thanks button under this video!
I am Vimoh, an Indian atheist and my videos have to do with religion, atheism, Indian culture, and sometimes contemporary political happenings.
Below are some videos from this channel that every Indian atheist must watch.
✔️ Videos for the Indian atheist - • Delving Deeper
✔️ How I became an atheist - • My journey between rel...
✔️ Why I am not a "Hindu atheist" - • Why I am not a Hindu A...
✔️ Why I am not a "Hindu atheist" (part 2) - • Belief in karma = beli...
✔️ The Indian atheist problem - • The Indian atheist pro...
✔️ Why atheism is important - • You can't fight irrati...
“Stop watching Ben Shapiro shows” cracked me up real good. 😂
Seeing your face in the mirror will give you a better cracking up😉
@@divyammalhotra5458learn and grow as a person, abandon evil things like idiocy.
100% and he didn't even deny it.
In that sense I guess I'm a Hindu Catholic
😂
If you still count as indian, yes
Hindu sunni
well I can't be Chinese now can I ?@@Pantheist2602
@@Pantheist2602I'm a hindu maulana currently practicing qu'ranic advaitism 🪑.. proud indian 🤣❤️
Hindu Atheist is an Oxymoron😂😂
Regarding the last point, people who culturally appropriate all religious practices of the past that have been in existence in this very land doesn't seem to be interested in acknowledging practices like the Sati pratha a part of Hinduism. That's cherry picking.
Hindus also have a hard time acknowledging casteism being inherent in Hindu scriptures and the many caste related practices and beliefs that have been a part of Indian culture for over two millennia.
The British didn't write the Manusmriti
I pointed out agnipariksha being problematic in ramayan. Apologists refuse to see it as part of valmiki's version of ramayan while it's right there. No matter how big of an issue criticized in these scriptures, people defending them simply cut off the inconvenient portions by claiming that they are "not original"
@@akshaysharma7595 bro seriously atleast know your religion properly. 😂
@@akshaysharma7595not again
I would love to see/hear a concrete definition of hinduism and hindu before debating because they can cherry pick the things according to whatever suits to their narrative........
And what is wrong with cherry picking from scriptures and maintaining identity? Not cherry picking the scriptures results in radicalism.
"without a lot of mental gymnastics"
proceeds to do mental gymnastics
aaaa
100% it's like "don't think for yourself. Just trust me bro! I'm right" 😂😂😂
"Everything is hindu"
💀💀💀💀
In India yes. Indian culture and hindu religion have evolved syncretically.
Every Indian is a default Hindu if he doesn't take any other label. Even the Indian constitution uses the term Hindu as a negatory term for those who are NOT muslims, christians, jews, parsis.
@@WalterBrown-bp7vithen it's time to change default settings......
@@electrondynamics9721good , you make leave this country, this will always Hindustan
@@AlbertEinstein-cs9dolmao no this dengue malaria will be eradicated.
Vimoh , thank you for being so wholesome, respectful and calm . Thank you ❤
I try
I do think non of our great grandfathers or great grandmothers would identify themselves as Hindu, they would identify themselves based on caste and also follow strick traditions. Even now my mother shivite traditions because that is what her grandmother taught her.
Yeah. Talk about rivalry between Shaivs and Vaishnavs.
Sanatana Dharma: IT does not promote atheism or Naastika Vada. It is based on Upanishads and according to which A Cause exists called Brahman and the effect also exists in Creation Sustenance and Destruction of this Cosmos and the effect is the energy. Brahman does not undergo any changes similar to Cosmos. Its main core is SAT- THAT EXISTS NOT ON NON EXISTENCE AND ASAT - WHICH IS NOT PERMANENT IS ASAT- COSMOS WHICH UNDERGOES VISIBLE CHANGES.
SO ATHEISM IS NOT SUPPORTED BY SANATANA DHARMA.
@@BABU19352008it very well does. The existence of philosophies like charvaka is the biggest torch bearer to that notion.
@@rexr9781 Tbh every non Abrahamic belief in India gets called Hinduism, some Hindus consider Buddhists as Hindus so charvaks were indic not hindus
@@rexr9781 charvaka supported caste system thou. They regarded kings higher than anyone
Hi i'm a Muslim atheist
Vimoh let me tell you, Nastik schools of philosophy are different from Vedic philosophy. In Valmiki Ramayan, it is written to treat atheists like thieves
Actually Nasthik schools are those who rejected the Vedas and the asthik ones are the ones that acknowledge the vedas, there are 8 asthik school of thoughts and 6 nasthik school of thoughts.
I would love i to see the references
So that i can use this against apologists
Hindu atheist is just a Hindu political dominance strategy of manipulating atheist by giving them the label of hindu atheist. Brahman religion propaganda
I guess that thief allegation was against a guy named buddha, but it had already been debunked that guy wasn't signifying Gautama Buddha or any other nastik school of thought.
@@adi-qx8lsit was not about a person named buddha. But it was about anyone who uses his own buddhi (intellect) instead of relying on faith in scriptures.
A hindu-atheist is basically an oxymoron.
More likely just a garden variety moron, anxious to take up more oxygen, as "hindu-atheists" are wont to do.
Nope, You can acknowledge ur cultural background as Hindu. And an atheist, or an agnostic. Vimoh is so pointed on "What most people would say" that sometimes he entirely ignores other perspectives 😅
@@14debanjan Nope. Hindus look to appropriate anything that is cool without even thinking about the contradictions it creates. Now you say a Hindu can be an atheist as well as Hindu is like saying I can be a scientist and a Hindu. Is that a possibility? Of course, there are many scientists who are religious, however, can Hinduism stand on the ground that it is atheistic. Nope. There are literally texts punishing atheists in Hinduism Markendeya "Persons who have no faith, those who are atheists fall into the terrible Naraka. So said Paramesvara."
@@14debanjanWhat is Hindu culture?
No at all. People dont even read the Hindu scriptures and talk about Hinduism. I am learning Hinduism and one doesnt need to believe in God . Hinduism has multiple paths. Hinduism is modern world. And he is trying to limit modern word Hindu to belief in God.
Mann, you should have asked him to define Hinduism
Hindu Atheist...what next...Hindu Ambedkarite?
Hindu Muslim and Hindu Christian, because, why not
Bro don't give them ideas....
LOL
I think the guy was very confused, and wasn’t able to articulate himself.
And you handled him respectfully! 👏
Basically he is in identity crises right now, calling himself only atheist will strip away his sole personality and identity of being a hindu, he is well educated i guess, he is fighting himself, and want to come to a middle ground by calling himself a "hindu atheist",
I can relate to that guy
@@NeoCarvakChanneltrue these imbeciles for some reasons can't understand things their minds have corroded to a degree of idiocracy of so-called "rationalism". Slovak zizek calls himself an Christian atheist as he finds conceptual value in Christianity which is kind of contradictory right. In Hinduism that's the beauty the mainstream has been corrupted but it it's essence is beauty there is value in it and it's worth fighting for. Charvaka weren't respected but at least they were allowed to exist their thoughts were heard not like in the other parts of the world where your head will get chopped once you said there is no god.
That is called a clear personality. You are the only one to call him confused or in an identity crisis.
I think you have been believing in flying monkeys, flying chariots, radiation absorbing milk, etc since childhood, so it is hard pill to swallow and accept the flaws.
Culture = shared values , so simple yet so profound. Although I’m not an atheist I love your content and clarity.
As a Hindu I am so baffled by how they try to incorporate anything and everything and undervalue them, Buddha Vishnu avatar, aethism, they'd just incorporate anything and say it's part of Hinduism and never understand what things actually are
Are you aware of Sankhya and Vaisheshik my friend.
Because Hinduism is a pantheon that tends to be encapsulating. This process is called “sanskritisation” in which ideas are incorporated into the general Hindu pantheon. One of the benefits of not being a religion of a single book is you can always add books to your library
@vimoh how do I connect with you for a discussion? Is there any link or is there any time I can join in when you go live? I would like to disscuss with you regarding atheism and so called Hinduism. Please let me know. Thanks
any Saturday. 8 pm. live stream channel. link on main page
@@vimoh thanks
My god this conversation ended on a good note. I rarely see that happen. 😅
My god? 🤨
@@lalithkaushiksarcasm
@@electrondynamics9721 Yeah I got it, I was doing the same 😅
Hindu atheist is just a Hindu political dominance strategy of manipulating atheist by giving them the label of hindu atheist. Brahman religion propaganda
Indeed, sometimes these things get drowned in petty tribalism. Glad I could have a cordial discussion with Vimoh and I appreciate his overall politeness towards me too. Look forward to calling again.
To say "I don't believe in god" becomes more nuanced due to the inclusion of the word "god" in it. Then it becomes pertinent to ask a question which god, what type of a god or even which functionality of the god. Even denying the concept of god which is more personal becomes a problem at least theoretically because an individual might tend to look around for a better concept than what he/she had. Further, it is also difficult to overcome a trauma that a person can undergo while coming to the consensus. In all it is more complicated and more nuanced and I think only personal exploration and healing (from the trauma) can help a person to find his/her own answers!
In times where the Charvakas lived, being an Hindu was believing in the authority of Vedas. So if anyone rejects Vedas, they automatically turn non-Hindu.
That can be said for organized religion but not sure about how in ancient times atheist were viewed.
How can I connect to vimoh?
This is what singing to a cow looks like.😂
"I understood your question"; "did you answer it"?
Like objects, laws & concepts can preexist before they got a name or label @vimoh 22:30
I think "atheist-hindu" makes a more sense in english, since here the first word works as an adjective, and the second, a noun. It's sounds strange for an atheist to be described as hindu, because 'hindu' is inclusive of theistic beliefs. But adding the adjective of 'atheist' before 'hindu' sounds fine, because you're specifying that you are a kind of hindu in certain facets that do not include theistic beliefs.
Even ex-hindu atheist makes much more sense then that.......
I think its a deliberate mix up to present a liberal face.
Hindu and india both are same words and both represented a geographical area.
While India retains its geographical meaning, hindu is no longer a geographic term but a religious term.
So Indian -atheist makes sense but hindu atheist is just conveniently switching between religion and geography.
In this geography both theist and atheist philosophies existed but theist were not welcoming or tolerant of atheist schools. The theists became Hindus following vedas.
They werent tolerant of even fellow theist schools.
@@gamesong6600 So people should start calling themselves atheists based on geographical locations now? American atheist? Europian Athiest, Andheri East Atheist? Do you not think this is ridiculous?
@@BagelPolice i m not saying that, but at least those words are meaningful.
Like bengal police is meaningful but non police-police is not meaningful.
Ex hindu-atheist is meaningful but hindu-atheist when hindu is not geographical term is not meaningful.
@@BagelPoliceaccording to question they can describe themselves as an atheist or indian atheist......
I'm a Christian Atheist. As God lives in me, there is no difference between me n him. So I'm an atheist🤪 On the side I'm also a cycling cook
You can be atheistic towards the Christian god and believe in other god or yourself to be god.
Another point to mention is a logical fallacy in the neo-carvak's argument. It's that, even though ancient greek democratic ideals are practised in today's worlds in a modified manner, that doesn't qualify every "ancient" idea to be modified and put to use. Also, if you think about it, whatever the masses find acceptable is what will be modified, and other things, well, they will get deleted. (Tl;dr not every ancient idea is a modifiable, acceptable, or even usable in today's times, just because certain of them were)
if they are saying that this or that is not definition of hindu or hinduism then how can they mark things as hindu like charvaka
Hello! Can someone please guide me as to how can I contact him if I have some questions about Atheism?
Hey. Join the livestream any Saturday at 8 pm. Channel link on main page
Okay! Thank you!
@vimoh I hope he called. As a Muslim I'm DYING to hear THAT conversation 🤣
If Brahma is everything as in the cosmos, then would I be correct to use Brahma as a synonym for the word cosmos?
I don't understand how that can be a problem. I am not an atheist, I am an agnostic. But I was born in a Hindu Bengalee family...and I acknowledge my native culture. Culture and religion are 2 different things. Culture may be derived from religion..or religion may be derived from culture, that's a seperate discussion. So from cultural perspective, I can say I am a Hindu bengalee, being an agnostic. Similarly, someone can be a Hindu, and an atheist. I thin
Charvaka , Akivika , Buddhism and Jainism are not part of so-called Hindu fold. They reject vedas which is root of the Vedic religion (Hindus nowadays have problem with the term Hinduism). They are nastika philosophises.
Hindu philosophy contains the shar darshan (yoga, vaiseshika, sankhya, mimansa , vedanta and nyaya).
Atheists are criticised in Purans and shall be punished by the Yama according to many purans.
I can give you more references. I am too born in a "Hindu - Bengalee - Brahmin" family who is an agnostic atheist.
@@combinatorics1224 Charvaka , Akivika , Buddhism and Jainism reject vedas? Kidhar, in your imagination.
@@vizsumitthe 4 major nasthik school of philosophy reject the Vedas and it's teachings
@@vizsumit For Buddhism please refer to Vinaya pitaka and dirgha nikaya. Buddha has discussed "Anatman" there.
For Jainism please refer to the "Prashna Vyakaran" and "Nyaya - dhamma" siddhantas of Agama literature. You can also read commentaries of Jinasena.
Unfortunately we don't find any literature of Ajivika.
The brihaspatya sutras of Charvaka are lost. But we get their references in "Hindu" texts and Buddhist literature.
Charvaka the hardcore materialists are not "Vedic" at all. In fact they are not any kind of spiritualists ....they hare hardcore atheist materialists.
including yourself within Hindu atheist thought or Charvaka philosophy is basically making you susceptible to straw man arguments
bruh that 12:20 , laughed for a straight minute, I am glad i found this channel.
Over the course of 3000 years, Hindu intellectual culture has not only embraced differing notions of the divine, but also a variety of different ‘atheisms’-the most famous of these being the Carvaka, or Lokayata, school. This essay charts the history of Hindu ‘atheism’ in the various forms it has taken from the classical to modern periods, including scepticism regarding the supernatural, the soul and an afterlife, non-theistic approaches to divinity, and critical or subversive responses to religion. It also engages with and explains a number of key ideas within Hindu thought and practice, including Dharma and personalism. Finally it outlines a ‘Hindu axis of atheism’ by highlighting some of the key themes on which Indian critiques have centred.
Source- Oxford Handbook of Atheism
As per Supreme court of India Hinduism is a broad term that encompasses all that is Indic in nature.
Hinduism is not a single book but a collection of philosophies, ideas, rituals and books.
There is no strict code of conduct in it.
Hindu Atheist / Cultural Hindu is one who don't necessarily belive in Gods/ Scriptures. But derives the cultural value out of them. ( Yes, atheists of other religion can also claim the same. But Hinduiom has wider scope for that as there are numerous storeis and epics related to Gods )
Atheism is a part of the broader Hindu religion, which also includes belief in god(s), so he calls himself a Hindu atheist.
So I can who likes steak, can call myself a vegetarian because I like my steak with a side of shallots or brussels sprouts, or roasted carrots with oregano
Can I call myself a vegetarian like that?
Much more sensible argument.......
I also have one ......
According to this logic that he said gravitational concepts must christian because the person who gave the concepts was a christian a firm believer of jesus and belonging to a nation where almost everyone atleast at that time were christians......
Same way if charvaks were there doesn't mean that they were hindu ......
Especially, when charvakas were opposing/rejecting the authority of vedas which are considered to be as the crux of hinduism........
And if the same way you'll think
For greece there were many atheist philosophers like epicurus.....
But that doesn't make it christian .....or something
@@electrondynamics9721 - Exactly. I have a friend from a Muslim family. He is an atheist, and when people ask him if he is a practicing Muslim, he says "No, I am not a practicing Muslim. I am a perfect Muslim."
@@whimsicalvagabond6906wait what ? ...😂
What you want to be called-Meat eating vegetarian
Brahman is me, brahman is Ghazni, brahman destroyed temples.. actually all muslims are hindus😅
If god is everywhere and he is all good then why people do evil things
Also,gods are not even able to save their own mandir masjid or church
Theists are so much hypocrites they do not see what is obvious and is in present in front of them
@@cullenvampires1226Brahm isn't a Superman like god. It has no qualties. Can't be described
What is that "me"?
Most people r their ego. Ego isn't brahman. Things done for the ego isn't done by/for brahman
@@himanshugurjar9002 God having not qualities is also a way of describing his quality.. at least listen to what called said.. how do you got to know God doesn't have quality? I think he texted you
@@himanshugurjar9002 who made that ego btw?
Have you heard about Sankhya, Vaisheshik,Mimansa, Aajivika,Charvaka?
"Stop watching Ben Shapiro"😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 🤣🤣🤣🤣
As a random viewer, I really need to put this out there... this discussion was to be honest... pointless! And to be frank, no matter how much we deny, we as biological organisms tend to try to fit in any social group that we are a part of! This is one of the reason that I think this caller calls themselves "Hindu atheist" very well knowing that saying "Hindu" is completely a useless point right there. It's also interesting to me, how our right brain (the one that speaks) can convince itself about any horseshit that it wants to believe. Another interesting point to ponder would be "Why have all human societies developed some kind of religion?" I would love seeing such, proper, and meaningful debate on this channel!
What's pointless to you might be useful to someone else. If you want to talk about what you believe, feel free to join the live stream any Saturday at 8 pm.
@@vimoh alright fair enough, I'll join the stream
Charvaka , Akivika , Buddhism and Jainism are not part of so-called Hindu fold. They reject vedas which is root of the Vedic religion (Hindus nowadays have problem with the term Hinduism). They are nastika philosophises.
Hindu philosophy contains the shar darshan (yoga, vaiseshika, sankhya, mimansa , vedanta and nyaya).
The problem with this statement is that you assume that only what is Vedic is Hindu. This is clearly not true or appropriate since Hindu is a broader term which includes both Vedic and non-Vedic philosophies. What is common among them is that they all subscribe to the principle of Adhikara Bhedha
@@WalterBrown-bp7vi Well by geographic terms ...they all are Hindu.
But the thing is veda rejects idol worship, they also bury the dead. But present Hindus ideal worship also they burn their dead. Present day Hinduism is mostly hindu tribalism. But people like vimoh treats everything bad as Hinduism like Brahminism is hinduism. I feel first atleast define hinduism before criticizing it which left or right fails to do. If we really look into it everything is hinduism or nothing is hinduism, or even brahaminism not hinduism. Vimoh tends to mix atheism with politics tries to portray as if you are in right political umbrella you are definitely pseudo carvaka or not atheist, you have to be on left umbrella even though left is filled with irrational Buddhist and Islamist too who are heavily indroctinated but vimoh tends to go light on them. I like what vimoh overall do, he right in most part, we need people like him to balance things out some times his fight for atheism becomes more political than social you know
@@Bronsonnarrator I disagree with Vimoh on the economy. I am a hardcore supporter of the free market economy while Vimoh is anti capitalist leftist.
@@combinatorics1224 what is free market economy?
Damn, I admire your patience.
Bruh just read what the heck Hindus mean by the term 'Brahman' that's their God. Afterwards just tell me how is it an theistic god? As far as current day Hinduism is considered it's simply a byproduct of bhakti movement ( of the saguna strands) and abrahamic culture.
Come to the stream if you want to discuss this. Saturdays at 8 pm. Thanks
my whole opinion on this is the question you asked , that if you ask a hindu today that is there god what will he answer , but what if i go back to pre colonial times and i ask do you believe in bhagwan , who would have said which one ? , so here is the whole trick that is being played that ,the god is non indian terminology that has been attached to Hinduism
OMG Vimoh you have the patieof a SAINT!!! I wouldve started screaming at him to be smarter. He just had this whole strategy prepared and memorized ready to regurgitate on his board exam paper. Lekin kuch questions out of sulyllabus aagaye 🤣🤣🤣
See he told you why he uses 'hindu atheist'..because its all about optics these days. He is worried someone might call him a leftist so he uses this term.
I am a hindu cyclist btw🙂
He is just twisting words. It doesnt matter if you beleive in God or not. He is defining Hindu based on what ignorant Hindus belief. Why to limit Hindu to Gods. Hinduism is an Umbrella under which different paths fall.
He is saying it coomplicates things. What is complicated here. We are humans . We may be male or females. But we call ourself humans. Is saying human complicated?
Why are we fighting around words that can be defined by each human differently.
I choose to call Indian culture of multiples paths and seeking as Hindu and we all should do so and take in knowledge from multiple schools of thoughts.
Leftist or like minded people choose to diminish Hindus to vedas and belief in God. They also came up with theries to divide North and south based on Atyan invasion theroy. I disagree with them.
Also I took Philosophy, in Indian school of philoshophy Nastik isnt someone who doesn't believe in god, it means someone who rejects the authority of the vadas.
At this point the Hindu athiest guy is right. Intact that's why many other schools called Shankara philosophy as non theistic in nature.
But theists never use the label... Hindu theist!.. only hindu atheist tag along the term hindu.
I have a proud hindu friend just like him. Whenever i talk about something from Indian history she also emphasises it is hindu history so call it Hindu history and takes pride in every other positive thing to show how great ancient Hindu culture was. But whenever I bring the topic of caste or sati practice uska munh band ho jata. Waha wo glorious hi du history pe proud nahi feel karenge, acknowledge Tak nahi karna chahenge 😂
I hv a sister like this...a husband like this a mom and a dad like this...cousins , mother in law...friends...i recently turned atheist and only then i saw these type of people are all around us.😂
Vimoh you taught him a good lesson, good job, either you can call yourself hindu muslim or Christian but you cant call yourself muslim atheist or hindu atheist you can be either on religious one or atheist😊
10:24 Cycling cook or cooking cyclist 😂😂😂😂😂 damn @vimoh 😁🤮😁
Hindu isn't a defined term itself. It is originally geographic but now religion.
So hindu atheist should mean someone who considers themselves part of hindu society but doesn't follow religious practices.
We should reclaim the geographic definition of Hindu .. just replace the word hindu with bharatiya!
So mughals also became hindu when they lived here?????
@@electrondynamics9721 Mughals became indians. Is there confusion there?
@@goddalehundibharathraj4374 but vimoh would not agree with it. He is too much infiltrated in left political umbrella for him you need to be left umbrella to be atheist
@@goddalehundibharathraj4374yeah i can see how much problem you have with word hindu
Tomorrow there will be sanatani atheists.
It's just another conniving masquerade to not take responsibilities of the rot inside Hinduism but then again 'sanatan bhi th bachana' hai.
The term Hindu itself has some controversial origins.the boy is in the youtube hellhole of conservative speakers and influencers with all BS logic been spouted endlessly.The boy will get over it once he sees how he himself is contradicting his own position multiple times
See if By saying Hindu, you basically mean that you're a Native of the Indian land mass. Then it's Okay. Becoz this term basically was first used by Persians to refer to the People living to the east of Indus (Sindhu). So this term is ancient But Not in the sense one would like to describe today (which is purely religious & Ideological ).
HI Vimoh, I am the Neo Carvak caller and I just wanted to clarify a couple of points.
1. When I said atheism was possible under the Adwaita Vedanta school, I forgot to add that Adwaita vedanta considers the whole universe and all it's beings (including all the deities) to be maya/illusion. Therefore atheism is possible under the adwaita vedanta framework.
2. When you questioned how the adwaita vedanta school was mainstream, I failed to elaborate how modern hinduism's unification is largely a result of sankaracharya and his teachings and efforts, such as establishment of mutts across India. His teachings became the new orthodoxy which resulted in the emergence of a unified Vedic orthodoxy.
3. Hinduism is not merely the Vedic thought, Sramanic thought, or anything else. It rests on the principle of "Adhikara Bhedha" which is a theological term accepted by pretty much all the schools of Indian thought and it refers to the tolerant idea which allows for theological difference and all paths being equally worthy. Vivekananda had his own version of this which is "Jato Mat Tato Pat". Therefore my definition of Hindu is merely a negatory term which refers to anyone who does not condemn people holding other ideas to hell (or gulags for that matter).
4. The Carvaka school of thought does not believe in the God, the Vedas, any supernatural beings and ideas etc. I believe in a modern version of the same school which takes into account modern scientific findings and other things. I still call myself a Hindu because Hindus consider me a Hindu. It is a pity that you fail to realise the tolerance of this particular community which allows within it's society such radically divergent views. My last point meant that when you said that the Carvaka school has no relevance to today, I should have elaborated that it does not matter that it was too long ago, because many ideas we currently have still exist today modified taking into account modern sensibilities and changes. This is healthy and it should be encouraged.
To illustrate point number 3, I would like to quote from the Nasadiya Sukta of the Rig Veda
"But, after all, who knows, and who can say
Whence it all came, and how creation happened?
the gods themselves are later than creation,
so who knows truly whence it has arisen?
Whence all creation had its origin,
the creator, whether he fashioned it or whether he did not,
the creator, who surveys it all from highest heaven,
he knows - or maybe even he does not know."
This shows the depth of sceptic enquiry within Hinduism as no other religion would dare commit such a grave blasphemy as questioning whether God exists or not or if he knew how the creation came about.
My point is that Hinduism encompasses a wide range of ideas, beliefs, philosophies united under the umbrella of the "Adhikara Bheda" principle which is essentially theological tolerance.
Christian dogma as laid out in the Nicene creed requires one to believe in Christ and the trinity and immaculate conception, similarly Islamic conversion requires one to believe in Allah and his prophet, therefore the conception of an atheist becomes apparent since he does not believe in this dogma. Hinduism makes no such dogmatic distinction. So I call myself a Hindu atheist because Hinduism hasn't excluded me from being an atheist, that is my simple answer
Although I can go on and on this way on the comment section, I will reserve the rest for the next week Vimoh, hope you will let me on again :)
@@WalterBrown-bp7vi Again, that does not really deny anything. You are using some of the very cherrypicked texts and trying to apply it everywhere else. And no, Charvakas were not tolerated in history. Nastikas were hated in Hindu scriptures, there are enough evidence for that. You just haven't really taken a stand on any topic on Hinduism. Your stance is again a very politically charged stance. Whether that is right or wrong is an anther thing, but at least be honest about it.
You are confusing between the geographic definition hindu and religious/vedic/vedantic idea of a hindu. If you think hindu is a geographic definition then there is no difference between calling yourself a hindu atheist, bharatiya atheist or indian atheist.
1. In advait stuff even you are an illusion not just the deities (like ram and krishna)... only the supreme undivided being called Brahman is real. This immaterial brahman is not a real entity in atheism. Just call yourself an advaiti if you are so attached with it!.
He points out the paradox in Adwaita and points out that there is no God. Adwaita is the latest (may be the smartest) Hindu theist philosophy, and when you understand Adwaita is wrong, and the world can be explained without the presence of Brahman or GOD, you became an atheist (or a Hindu atheist as per him). I can see him point.
Unlike other religions being Hindu doesn't mean believe in something. It largely comprises of many sectors like ayurveda, politics, science & scientific debates, spiritual, different schools of thought, moral stories and many more.
I call myself as Hindu atheist too. That means I want to follow Hindu cultures & traditions like respecting elders (touching feet), putting tilak, celebrating Hindu festivals etc. Being atheist doesn't mean losing your identity or roots.
Also, I would prefer reading the scriptures provided by our elders to define & refine my personal path than being blunt or turning blindside to religious texts.
You can do all those things even without calling yourself a hindu atheist and just atheist
@@AmarnathSwami-ki2jb you can do all those things by calling yourself a human. You don't have to identify as Atheist. Idenfying ourselves as something is personal thing. It doesn't have to come on you by a decree or someone else's segregation. You have your own intellect to form an identity for yourself. Just don't blindly follow someone because it is their channel.
@@storm_rager yes completely aggre you can do all those things by calling yourself a man..
@@AmarnathSwami-ki2jbyou can same thinga indentify yourself as gay😂
@@AlbertEinstein-cs9do ayo gay jokes comedy 🤡🤡🤡
18:15 🔥🔥
the atheism is identity not just lack of belief in God or gods carvaks are technically atheists but cannot be called hindu atheist because the term hindu also includes religious concepts
Dude trying to say he is the Savarkar kind of aethiest? 😂
if all schools are teaching in hindi as common language everyone would be speaking hindi , it is the choice that government made not by British,
Theist and atheist debate on calling 6 as 9 and 9 as 6
It is like im muslim atheist.. either im muslim or atheist..😊
Dhruv Rathee you have someone to speak with
❤❤❤❤❤
Reality of Hinduism is it can mean anything and nothing at the same time. Its the nir-gunn Brahman of belief system.
People thinking Hinduism is about vedas and Gita are clueless, Hinduism is a umbrella religion it consists of various religions and sects present in the sub continent.
Everything is hindu?💀💀💀
In the Hindu Fantasy World, everything is Hindu.
Other groups need to be cautious about it
@@basantprasadsgarden8365Hindu isn't a one book one prophet kind of religion. It is organically developed alongside India as a civilization.
So anything Indian in origin becomes hindu
@@himanshugurjar9002 that means Maoist terrorism is also Hindu, because it originated in India?
@@himanshugurjar9002mughals empire hindu ?
But that will not suit the political narrative right?
What if creation and the creator is one. A new school of thoughts.
At least 2500 years old in India. Philosophical idealism of ancient Greece is similar but Greece died out.
Its literally Hindu-astik philosophy
@@versatilenick2209 I don't know is it Hindu astik philosophy or not but listen to me carefully. If creation is a literal proof of creator, so there is a time when no creation is there if there is no creation how would you prove that there was a creator.
So the creation and the creator form simultaneously
@@versatilenick2209 either it will be together or it doesn't even exist
@@neerajjaiswal8960 its advaita vedanta But again its just assumption. Creation is not proof of creator. Because we do not have any information before the creation of universe .creation and need of creator is result after the big bang.
Assume you saw fire in the forest , you will assume someone burns the forest. But it can be due to lightning or rock striking. So You can not just say with certainty , we can not neglect the idea of creator because there can be a man who is doing the fire. We just do not know
When you compare Hinduism with classical (Abrahmic) religions like Christianity and Islam, you will understand what Hinduism means. We call everyone Hindu who is not tied to one single book and a prophet/ messenger of God. As simple as that. It's an umbrella term. It became important for us to identify ourselves as Hindus to fight unitedly against tyrants who identified themselves of a particular religion.
first of all hindu is a term derived from sindh nadi...given by other people in the past who were not indigenous to identify a set of people residing in a region/geography.
hinduism has branches but as vimoh said, when u ask a random hindu on streets as it will be in majority....that would be the major school of thought
well there are majority of hindus themselves who identify themselves strongly with one GOD similiar to the abrahamic religions.....so will u fight against them??? there is still casteism in majority india which is rural, and the people are fighting against this injustice will u also fight against them????
@@mohammedzain5598 There is no harm in identifying with one God. Like Vaishnavites, Shaivites etc. In fact, Hindus cohabit with atheists, agnostics, etc. Hindu is an all encompassing term. It's not exhaustive but inclusive.
@@mohammedzain5598 as far as casteism in Hindus is concerned, no doubt it harms the unity when it comes to fighting tyrannies. Chh. Shivaji Maharaj united 18 different castes to fight tyrants.
@@politicsuncoiled8480 its not about US vs THEM bro....don't boil it down to suit your narrative, a majority population has been undermined it social status due to this issue which still is practiced in many parts of the rural india...your statement about inclusiveness is for all the people living in a region might not be a TAGLINE or identity someone might be willing to accept due to various diff. reasons...including everyother person to prove the essence of an ideology, first ask others also
@@mohammedzain5598 No bro. Please understand. Take the example of Christianity. First and foremost requirement to accept that religion is forsake all other Gods as their God doesn't share his glory with anyone. But in Hinduism, despite the fact that there are followers of particular Gods, they never ask you to forsake others while accepting theirs. There is always reverence and respect for each other.
Then I'm hindu 3d artist😂😂.
Mere bhai ko Set-Subset padhaao koi bitha ke.
Really😀🤣
Vimoh's lack of knowledge is quite evident here! A Hindu would be someone who accepts the authority of the Vedas and a Hindu atheist would be someone who accepts the Vedas but rejects God's existence. There were schools like Mimamsa and Sankhya that accepted Vedas and attempted to interpret Vedas in atheistic lines. Now you can't dismiss them from atheism, they emphatically denounced God. Atheism simply means denying God's existence, now on top of this you can be an idealist atheist (rejecting God but accepting consciousness as the sole ontological reality), You can be a materialist atheist (Only matter is ontologically existent), in fact, you can be religious and also atheist at the same time Buddha is the best example or Buddhists are atheists but religious. Philosophically speaking atheism is simply the affirmation of the negation of God's existence, anything more than this is an add-on and not a necessary pre-requisite. To think that atheism defined by neo-atheists like Dawkins, etc is the only viable definition of atheism is absurd and also exhibits ignorance of real facts. Vimoh's points are childish, like just because most Hindus today are theist does not mean there were never atheist Hindus or they couldn't be. Sankhyans rejected God's existence outright, and Mimansakas rejected God's existence despite accepting Vedas because for them Vedas were a guidebook for Objective moral standards. 11:11 what a stupid remark! The reason why the tag "Hindu" is important because there are and there were atheists who accepted the doctrine of Vedas without accepting God, hence if such an atheist exists today he must specify he is a Hindu atheist and not a materialist atheist like yourself!
feel free to come on the live stream any Saturday at 8 pm and educate me about my childishness
Thanks for the invite, sure I'll definitely look forward to it @@vimoh
They do believe in god. They do not completely reject the existence of god. They simply question the omnipotent, omnipresent and omnisient nature of the god. They argue that the existence of this god doesn't matter in our day to day life. They question whether this god started creation or a product of creation itself, thereby questioning whether even god knows the existence of such beings.
Who the Buddhists, jainas, sankhyans, mimsansakas? No, they don't. Buddha completely rejected the existence of anything independent, the Jainas too rejected God (for them cosmos is autonomous), and the Sankhyans as well as Mimansakas also rejected God's existence. They completely reject the existence of God and read Kumarila's arguments against God's existence in Shlokvartika. For Sankhyan Matter is dynamic hence the proposal of God's existence as the first cause is unnecessary. Those arguments where they say such and such God is immaterial to our lives are directed against deism, not theism. They vehemently opposed theistic ideas of God. And they'd do this by pointing out contradictions between attributes of God that are being proposed. @@dragoons292010
@@theologyrationality6556 again, Jains and buddhists aren't Hindus.
And regarding Samkhya and Minmasa you simply elaborated what I said. They did not deny the existense of a god. They argued on certain aspects on manifestations of god, and ultimately settled to this creature having no form.
Ultimately, Minmasa and samkhya still stauchly adhered to Vedas and vedic deities and made a point to regularly perform rituals to these entities. By any metric they are not atheistic. Now you can claim that these dieties are just metaphors for the forces of nature. But these deities carry tones of moral attributes. Indra, in many of the hymns is praised for winning a war. There are verses where kings invoke the vedic gods varuna, mitra,etc to seek their blessings
I am a Muslim hindu ....😅 Make sense
arent carvaka atheistic and come under hindu pantheon which includes nastik
The word hindu itself is a civilisational term it wasnt some modern inventions look how he says hindu is a later term to denote previous ancient indian practises but the hinduism has caste system fundamental even though those ancient practices werent hindu but then claims others are culturally appropriating this guy uses things and words just to parrot his prooganda crap
If someone has non-God Hindu beliefs then Hindu atheist makes sense.
The most strong athestist was Lord Buddha. But over time his teaching were heavily corrupted by peoples mostly brahman.
I think the guest, talks more sense in this particular video than u vimoh!
I am a cycling cook though
Vimoh is a perfect Charvak.. I say it as a compliment
Hindu atheist is a person who uses Hindu atheistic philosophies as the basis for his atheism. You said one such person could simply mention the philosophy in question (like Advaita follower being Advaitist) instead of using the wider word Hindu which includes theistic philosophies too.
In that respect, I agree that it creates confusion when discussing philosophies. But in regular conversation, it is a useful label for identification purposes as lot of Hindus know that there are atheistic philosophies in Hinduism but may not know the exact philosophies in question. It also helps gain them better acknowledgment from mainstream Hindus as they use the word 'Hindu' in their identity and help Hinduism appear in a broader, more accepting light.
Thanks for the discussion which helped me think about my beliefs in a different light.
i am hindu atheist (charvaka) an no one has problem from being atheist. Hindu religion accept all the thoughts.
its is not like islam that orders to kill apostates.
You need to read all your scriptures to understand what atheism is ...
Then u don't know what Hinduism is.
First go read scriptures then talk
@@noxious_maddy i know thats why I am saying it 😁
@@nasrinsayyed4235 umhh.. My replied was to his cmt, but that fine
Do you belive in God/Gods... if Yes than you are Theist... if Not than you are Atheist... everything else is irrelevant
@@NeoCarvakChannel a average hindu believe in god, that is the main identifier of his existence, but if u are an atheist than u don't beleive in one,so there is an existential difference between an atheist and a Hindu. As soon as u use the word Hindu , an average Hindu will assume that u believe in a God , it doesn't matter if u use the atheist label. It only muddies the water.
@@NeoCarvakChannel I was not referring u as an average hindu but Hindus as general.
There may be many traditions and philosophy but in all of them belief in a higher being/GOD is common(in present time), which contradict ur claim to be an atheist.
If u really want to showcase ur traditional and cultural roots than u can simply refer urself as an INDIAN ATHEIST.
The word Hindu has lots of baggage with it .
The concept of GOD IS A SYMBOL OF ANYTHING WHICH IS, GOOD, PURE, SORTED, ORDERLY, PERFECT, INFINITE, LIBERATED. EVOLVED.
I am sure being an atheist you idealise qualities mentioned above.
@@lukahansdavlogs
@@eaglemgtow2789 so If u agree that God is just a concept. Well, then I agree with u.
@@lukahansdavlogs of course it's a just a concept, a mere part of a philosophy
Dude, If you are saying Hindu has 2 schools of thought. Atheist and Theist . If they are sub categories, then why can't you refer to it as Hindu Atheist? And Hindu Theist?
The reason might be because the morals or the culture you learn stems from Hindu philosophies but don't have belief in the god part of it. But if you say just theist, then it could be you get your morals from Christian or Muslim school of thought.
If there was a practice and a school of thought that was practiced in India. Someone came in and then named it as Hinduism, why does it matter? So what were those practices before called? They were the sanatan dharma.
Regarding Rajiv's point about non-democratic system, he meant that we don't ask a child what food he/she wants, otherwise child would choose junk food instead of a healthy home food which mother takes decision. Parents don't ask child whether the child should play now or do home work, etc. Without bias on any political parties, it seems worth to look at the idea that there one should use a hybrid working model for governance that makes decision for what needs to be asked to general public and what needs to be handled by expertise. Does that make sense?
You both need the truth of Islam. In ignorance you wouldn't want to avoid this because its a matter of great concern of next life.
feel free to come on the live stream and prove there is a next life
if you can, show us your "truth"
The host is gud but he is biased and seems like having smtin against Hinduism. Hindu Atheist seems a valid term if Hinduism has a space for non believers.
he just said that hinduism is a set and it has thiestic and atheistic subsets....and an athiest can identify himself as an subset athiest rather than including a whole superset.
and he also knows that the majority school of thought followed is the religious version and even the athiestic hindus today either dont know anything about these school of thoughts, dont care much about religion, and this charvaka is like less than 0.5% of the population