Should You Buy A 16" AR-15?
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2025
- A lot of commercial trends for AR-15s trickle down from what the military is issuing. In this video, Brandon gives his thoughts on the "standard" 16 inch AR-15. Yes, we all know the history of why the NFA went with 16 inches.
16inch AR with a red dot and loaded with the cheapest 55grain you can find is the civilian special
cost effective and ballistically effective
I mean I'd at least spring for a soft point if not actual defensive ammo designed to expand.
@@whatsmolly574155gr fmj out of a 16-20” tends to fragment and blow up
I couldn't agree more. American samurai sword
I'm going to keep saying it. Velocity matters. And cheap 223 may be all you can find... again. We've been there before. And why the hell is anyone- civilian-veteran-active duty or cop- not laser focused on finding alternatives to CQB!? Find another way.
Don't overthink your rifle. Overtrain your rifle.
Absolutely agree!
Great advice.
This one is golden advice
🔥
One of the best comments I’ve read on the Internet in a very long time
It's actually because of the m1 carbine.
The NFA used to be 18 inches for rifles but the government sold surplus m1 carbines to the publics and when they realized they just violatsd the nfa, they made a rule change to make it 16 inches since that qas the barrel length of those m1 carbines.
Edit: This might not be 100% accurate so do you're own research but I think it was more legislative error than for any performance-related or handling related stuff.
Yup. Oopsie!
Which is why a short barrel shotgun is still 18 inches
Rare Government accidental Win
Government saying rules for thee but not for me. As per usual
Thank god for the M1! Marines carrying on the tradition with their HK’s to this day! 16” is the best for 556, and for 6.5 creedmore. 16” is just all around BAMF
16” means no pin and weld which means you can replace every component of your rifle with only hand tools. If you are a civilian on a budget with no access to a professional armorer that’s a big deal
Underrated comment
💯
At the end of the day. You can buy a smithandwesson a Bushmaster and budget on your firearms and everything else. Just keep it simple but always get in person training so you can learn how that firearm works.
You don't need to be a professional armorer my brother in Christ. You just need to know the most basic tack weld possible and/or know how to grind that sumbitch off when you wanna replace a muzzle device. Eazy-pezy.
you can do that with any AR-15 barrel length.....
Man Brandon has been an outstanding add to your team. He keeps getting better and better with time
His evaluations and commentary are good. I do wish they would invest a voice coach for him.
He's actually likable and cool/not cringey unlike Lucas lmao
I don't mind listening to this guy. Much cooler than Lucas
We were clearing rooms (we called in MOUT) with 20” M16A2s, and carry handle sights, in the early 90s.
I’d argue that musket was a “do it all.”
Peak performance 💪
We still did it throughout the 2000’s in Iraq, with bayonets attached!
yes were were lol
My first CQB training was done with A2 as well. Hated that thing. 😂
Actually, you’ve probably said it best….
If not for the NFA, 16” might not even exist.
Been saying it for years the only reason it exists is because of the nfa
m27 IAR has a 16 inch barrel
I agree. I think a longer gas system would still come around, but we'd all be running 14.5 middies instead of 16 middies.
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz That's what always pissed me off about the NFA. M4 Carbine is the most commonly issued rifle in the United States Military so why is it not common for civilians to own 14.5" uppers with a stock? The most commonly owned rifle by civilians would be a M4 if it weren't for the NFA
@@jeffpraterJSF Me personally I like the 18 inch because that is the shortest you can get and still use the rifle length gas system, NO recoil, recoil has left the chat.
Sure, but just because the 16" is popular because of the NFA doesn't invalidate it entirely. Ballistics data shows it's the optimal rifle length under 20" in terms of energy/inch for 5.56 with a typical 1:7 twist.
Basically, if you plot out the energy gain/inch, you get three "peaks." One at around 12, one around 16, and one around 20.
Obviously there are plenty of other ways to judge a rifle, but this is a valid criteria to consider in the big picture.
Let’s be real most customers aren’t looking at ballistic data that deeply. Most simply buy it because it’s most commonly offered and aren’t going for long range so already know they don’t want the extra weight/cost of longer barrel. And obviously 16 is cheaper to produce on manufactures end as well.
@@carsonhunt4642 Agreed, but my point is: If NFA was removed, I think 16" would still be a common offering. Maybe not as common as now, but you'd definitely see 16".
You are right. But I think 14.5 pinned and welded looks like one bad gun.@@carsonhunt4642
5.56/.223 was designed for 20" barrels for maximum performance. As you decrease barrel length you decrease terminal performance of the round. 20" barrels are impractical for anything but long range however 16" is the sweet spot. 14.5 or 11.5 is cool and all if you want to pretend your a door kicking operator but 16" is best for overall performance even if you want to run a supressor.
This is the right answer but the keyboard warriors will boo you for saying it 😂
14.5 is fine, 11.5 I agree is way too short for a 556. 13.7 is the shortest I would go.
I want a 20 inch with a supressor. Full musket activity.
Or just run something other than surplus 55 grain M193?.. like maybe a heavier projectile that perhaps expands?.. maybe something like a 77 grain polymer tipped round that may be designed to expand at lower velocities?.. maybe from one of the 50 different manufacturers loading hundreds of different unique loads?
Maybe?.. 🤷🏻♂️
I promise you, you wont be able to tell at 300 yards if you were shot with a 10.5 or a 16 inch barrel. All this barrel shit is stupid, if you need more range, use a different cartridge
16" is a great postition to be in. 10"-12" is good for Alphabet door kickers but not perfect. 16" can fulfill all roles while keeping 5.56 spicey. 16" is far more practical for common infantry.
If I'm going down to 10", I'm just going to go with a .300BLK
No most practical for infantry is 14.5 there’s a reason it’s standard for infantryman
@@11BReloyou think 1.5” makes the difference between practical and not practical?
@@almostontimehero5415 it’s does actually so what’s your reason for saying 16in is more practical for the infantry?
@@11BRelo What's yours for saying 14.5 is the most practical besides it being the length of an m4 barrel? I can give my opinion but at the end of the day it's just an opinion. 16 is better velocity, potentially longer gas system and potentially more real-estate for attachments with a very slight loss in maneuverability. 14.5 being in common use does not mean it's the most purpose built for infantry, it just means it's in common use because the gun with that length barrel won out in bidding. If you can't manage squeezing your happy ass into a doorway with a 1.5" longer barrel then training is the problem, not the rifle.
16" is a solid length. Especially good choice if you only have one rifle, as it is good in most situations.
It's literally the best
@@Rangefinder211 cope
@@aesthetic8780 I think ur coping with ur dismissal velocity chud
Until you suppress it😂
@@aesthetic8780 only one coping is you with ur dismissal velocity 🤡
A 16” with a 1-6 that has a good 1x has been my recommendation to new guys for a few years now. That gun can do just about everything, and if they happen to find a deficiency with it, it typically means that they’ve settled in a preferred style of shooting that would necessitate a more specialized build.
Dot + magnifier is better for most people. More user friendly.
@ Hasn’t been my experience. most of the new guys I’ve helped didn’t like the Eyebox/eye relief and found it much easier to shoot out past 100 with the LPVOs(Mostly SLX1-6s and Strike eagles).Additionally red dots with magnifiers are a very poor tool for teaching guys to gather DOPE and shoot at distance, having a reticle to reference makes the process much smoother. Within 50 yards and on 1x the scopes are certainly marginally slower than a red dot, but if anything that’s been useful as a tool for teaching target focus. To each their own, but I’m not going to stop recommending cheap LPVOs.
Getting a SIG MSR 1-6 on my PSA this reason exactly. Does most things well enough. Eventually I'll upgrade, but I aint got the money for it right now lol.
@spacecaesar7619 dot has no eye relief. That's the main reason. Most people don't want eye relief at all so anything with magnification annoys the casual shooter.
@@LiterallyJustA357 Sig MSR is a surprisingly good scope for what it is, the included mount is also super nice. First rifle I ever built for a guy has an MSR 1-6 on it to this day, owner hasn’t felt the need to change it.
A BCM MCMR 16” upper with a full length handguard and an ACOG on your choice of a lower; with the addition of a bi-pod, weaponlight, and grip, is honestly the best setup for any single individual citizen in the United States.
I like 16” as a barrel length a lot. Very soft with a mid length gas system, M193 will fragment out to around 150 yards, with a lightweight barrel it’s not nose heavy like a short gun with a can, and the overall length is still compact. Underrated setup tbqh
Yup agree
In Poland, we don't have any barrel length limit, but 16" ARs are still popular. Firstly, most of them are imported, so we're just following the US demand. Secondly, we have a huge markup on guns (BCMs are selling now close to $3k), so most people can realistically afford one rifle, so it has to be be-all, end-all. And thing is, under 16" I don't think you make power factor for IPSC Rifle competitions on the cheap 55gr ammo. Yes, 18" are nice, but: 1) for some unknown reason, they are crazy expensive; 2) If you go to tactical competitions, you want it as short as possible for confined spaces
@@PeterSikachev even to the majority of working class Americans $1500 better be a be all end all. Suppressors, lasers and night vision are absolute luxuries.
@rjh8395 yeah, but in Poland with a lower median salary, having the guns cost almost twice more than in the US, makes it an elitist hobby. $3k is like 3 monthly minimum wages.
So by "most people" I mean "most gun owners" which is already a helluva rich slice of the society
@ gotcha, we are privileged
@@rjh8395 yeah, unless you live in a Commie state. However, we don't need to pay extra for a shorter barrel and suppressors are over-the-counter item in Poland
@PeterSikachev in the united states, I never understood why people say the 2nd amendment is designed for the people to have power to overthrow a corrupt government, when the 2nd amendment in practice only arms a privileged segment of the population who would never revolt anyways.
This may not have been known by Brandon, but the entire Marine Core adopted the M27 IAR (which is basically a bull barreled HK416) as their standard service rifle. The M27 IAR uses a 16" barrel so that it can serve as a multi-role rifle in a wide variety of uses. 16" is also the standard barrel length of the AK-47, AK-74's and a variety of WWII era carbines.
So, 16"-barrel lengths aren't just a "civilian AR thing", they actually are the standard length of carbines throughout the world for over the last 100 years and are a very common length. Honestly, I think the 14.5 - 16" barrels are the most versatile range that do a variety of things well. Go over or under that significantly and you're getting into specialty applications vs. general purpose use.
Glad to see some commenters mentioned mid-length gas systems, which I think really helps a 16” barrel.
At 0:51, it is worth mentioning that the long barrel versions of the Marine Corps’ M27 IAR have a 16.5” barrel. So while the military isn’t technically using AR15s with 16 inch barrels, they are using something similar.
So basically an mr556a4?
@@n.speezly1467 Yes. HK even made a limited, 1,000 unit run of the "MR27" rifle which is basically just a 16.5 inch MR556. 500 of those units even came with a "Deployment Kit" which included the exact same furniture and the exact same ACOGs as the Marines ordered for their M27 IARs.
16” does it all. Probably my favorite barrel length. You guys should do a video on an LWRC piston driven individual carbine in 16”, mine absolutely rules for coyote clearance
Agree on that 16 is most versatile, and maneuverable, when you take off running from danger and the apocalypse id choose the 16 inch hands down..
Both of you are clueless.
@@Rubeless yeah, well maybe I am.🤷
@@Rubeless Yea we all really care what you think 😂
@@RubelessDo ever get tired of coming to this channel and making yourself look like a dumbass? 🤣
I personally like the look and feel of a 14.5 but the practicality and simplicity of a 16” is the reason why I built it instead. Not having to worry about being stuck with one muzzle device on my upper is nice to have
You guys are killing it with your videos. The 16" is a great length for a do it all rifle. I would argue the 16" with an ACOG and a red dot is a better overall setup then your first rifle with the MPVO.
No such thing as a do all rifle length. 10.5 to 20in all have their benifits. A jack of all trades is a master of none. No barrel length is a master of just one area besides arguably 10.5" barrels. Different tools for different jobs.
Mine does it all and has for 30 plus years.
@@2wingssamebird If you're trying to be pedantic then yes, there is no such thing as a "do it all" rifle.
@@2wingssamebird With good ammo and skill you can push a 16” to 1000m, and it’s the same OAL as a suppressed 10.5” for CQC. It very much can do it all, limited only by optic stack and shooter skill.
@@2wingssamebirdthat’s why I have a 10.5, 10.6, 10.7, 10.8, 10.9, 11, 11.1, 11.2….. all the way to 20.
I love my 16" AR. That said, (my opinion is) the reason they're so prolific is because that's as short as you can go without paying a $200 unconstitutional, extortion fee to the ATF. Once the ATF goes away, you'll probably see other lengths become more popular
My personal favorite is a 16" barrel/Mid-Length gas system rifle.
M27, also foreign users such the NZDF use a 16in LMT as their standard service rifle. The Brit’s use to issue and still may issue in a limited capacity a 15.7in* barrel variant of the colt canada c8 aka the L119.
Also if it wasn’t for 16in guns the mid length gas system would have likely not be as prolific as it is today and the 16in guns are a super solid balance in ballistics, reliability and handiness.
Good point on the gas system. I should've mentioned this.
Been wanting a 14.5 for awhile but recently decided to go with a 16 because the only reason I can think to have a 14.5 is to say that I have 14.5
Edit: speaking entirely subjectively here. Not shitting on anyone’s preferences. That’s just the conclusion that I came up with when considering my next buy.
You’ll be fine.
I've owned one 14.5" p/w and I'll never do it again. Losing all the modularity of the platform for no gain just to say it's a 14.5 is not worth it.
@@nwordpass80 It handles noticeably different though. I have a 14.5 BCM and a 16" BCM and the 14.5 is much more wieldy. If you shoot with a can the difference is even more noticeable but even if not its very noticeable imo. You literally don't lose the modularity either, you guys crack me up. It's a tiny little weld. GRIND IT OFF if you need to change a muzzle device. You can grind that tiny weld without even damaging your muzzle device. I've done it a bunch of times.
No real ballistics between the 2, really depends on the brand of ammo when it comes with that.
PMC 55 grain or 62 grain works well.
Yeah I was in the same place. Now I just want a 16” for a SPR and a 11.5 for CQB or general purpose . 10.5, and 14.5 are kind of novelty.
Pretty sure the M27 IAR has a 16 inch barrel.
16.5 but who’s counting
@@TComp-25 Half an inch is a lot brother 💀
@@MikeB1972a half inch is HUGE bro
@@MikeB1972that’s what she said
Different platform. It even says "AR-15" in the video title. M27 is based on HK 416. USAF have "never really issued any sixteen inch [AR platform] rifle"
It's all about trade-offs. My first build was a 16", but it just didn't fit the shooting I was doing. I've replaced that upper with a 12.5" suppressed SBR build.
The main thing for me was the 16" was front heavy. The 12.5" is much more balanced and I shoot it better. And that's the most important consideration!
Trijicon makes a few ACOG models that have a BDC for 16" with 55gr ammo. Hardly anyone buys them but they're actually super useful because 55gr out of a 16" is actually pretty functional.
Only downside is it only comes in the fiber optic model with the chevron.
@@PastorDr.MartinSsempafiber optic is superior
@PastorDr.MartinSsempa that's the perfect model 👌
@@joemama69448 I thought so until I bought one and realized I didn’t like the chevron and that the rear mounted RMR bumped my helmet lol.
The best thing about this guy…. Watch the vid on his tactical games stuff… his nutrition tips were friggin awesome… would love to hear more about that….
16" is a good length, its roughly in the middle of the good lengths for 5.56.
However if the NFA didnt exist I believe the norm would be 14.5 midlength (or whatever the hypothetical midlength equivilent would be) because we would all be set on 14.5 like the military and once free float rails became the norm the carbine system would be correctly seen as an issue.
16” is fine. 20” would be ideal. 10” is really just for people that have specific needs related to the overall size of the weapon. There is no right answer. Just buy what you can afford that meets your needs and then train with it.
The 16" barrel is pretty good for us civilians. Most of us don't have suppressors and the blast and sound from a 10.3" or 11.5" are REALLY intense, especially in confined spaces. The longer 16-20" barrels are less disorienting and have higher muzzle velocities, which are better at getting their rounds to fragment and/or tumble in the target, which is largely how a 5.56/.223 does its damage. I'm a big fan of 18-20" barrels in my 5.56/.223 rifles and using 300 BLK in my CQB rifle.
Nothin fancy, just an LMT with an ACOG
Yeah, nothing fancy, just a $3k rifle with a $1.2k optic.
Brandon has become my fav! Thanks bro
You raise some great points, Brandon. Because of what the military uses, it surprises me that more 18" and 14.5" w/a p/w muzzle device aren't sold. From a civilian/self-defense perspective, it would be hard to claim imminence if your adversary is out past 300 meters. Even 100 yards is pushing it, unless you're taking incoming rounds from those distances. Regardless, I really like the 14.5 p/w upper from BCM. It's comforting. The mid-length system with the right buffer and spring makes it comfortable. Thanks.
If your adversary is shooting at you from 300 meters that's pretty imminent. People make that argument but forget that other people can shoot at you from long distances.
I could say a lot but I will keep it to one point. The temporary cavity of a projectile will cause damage if the MV is 2000 FPS minimum. The 5.56 projectile will break, yaw, etc only when it reaches ~2700 FPS. The more the barrel length is reduced the more the maximum effective range is reduced, key word, effective. I really don’t care what barrel length your rifle is. Just keep in mind that the maximum effective range of 5.56 from a 10” barrel is 100 yards…maybe.
Don’t you think the projectile weight and type play a critical factor in everything you’re saying being correct? Did you perhaps forget about all of the other weights and bullet types outside of M193?
I find it so amusing and odd that so many people have this view as if the 5.56 is the least versatile round on the planet and is restricted to FMJ bullet types at 62 or less grains..
Why?
Btw, I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, as long as we’re constraining 5.56 to 55 or 62 grain FMJ like we’re beholden to government procurement.
As civilians we can buy all kinds of stuff that outperforms the rounds the military has at their disposal.
Crazy that people have been killed out to 500m with a 10.3 during GWOT. But hey man you need that 20 inches
@@thehillbillycat4975 More people have been killed by the 20" then the 10.3".
@@thehillbillycat4975 More people have been killed by the 20" then a 10.3". But hay man keep that crap ballistics 10"
I carried an A1, and now I have a 20" gunner profile on my frankenrifle. Fixed stock. It still works for me.
My 16in IWI Z-15 does me just fine for my use, which fits very squarely within that “general purpose” use category. It’s also nice since I can swap around muzzle devices with a bench vice and a couple of wrenches instead of having to go to an armorer. I can defend my home if necessary and still make steel sing at 500yds with pretty much anything I have to feed it with. Anyway, I love my rifle, and it’s awesome. However, knowing what I know now I’d probably rock a 14.5 BFH/ELW BCM MK2 on an aero lower with an SSA-E, ambi safety selector, and a pin and welded HUXWRX flash hider for the 556k I want to grab.
I’d run it with either a 4T Pro and 4x magnifier or a Primary Arms 1-6x ACSS Nova SFP
I also have 16inch IWI Zion, works great, have it sited for the 50/200 ballistics. I have Viper 1x6 PST Gen2. Works great I can hunt with it, home defense, range days. All around great rifle.
Damn. What a thorough video delivering so much goodness in 18 minutes. It's been a long time since a video like this has encapsulated its audience so well. Subcribed good sir.
Think of it like this: A 16” can be used for CQB and distance. A 10.3” can be used for CQB but no amount of training will ever make the 10.3 shoot farther than the 16”. 16” sacrifices mobility but a 10.3 sacrifices actual ballistic capability.
notice justin didnt say you couldnt do what a 16 could just that you couldnt do better
Its not shooting further and with less velocity but some of you guys make it seem like the bullets out of a 10.3 dissapear into thin air as soon as they cross the 200y line.
I trained with my SF mentor in a live round shoothouse with a 18" SPR build with an old school AA battery Eotech 512 (I would switch it out with a Leupold Mark IV optic). I never felt disadvantaged, however I had to be more mindful to make sure my barrel didn't stick out around corners. I prefer my 300BLK Supressed Rattler in a close quarter situation, but I can make it work with a 16".
16in is just an arbitrary number made up by the ATF/NFA
Not exactly. The original 18" was a made up arbitrary number. Congress dropped it to 16" to accommodate the sell of a large cache of M1 carbines to the public without making them felons.
Technically that’s not correct, the 16” came about through pure government incompetence and we should be glad for it. They originally had it set to 18” same as shotguns but then they went out and sold a bunch of surplus guns that were 16”. They then had to walk the minimum length back to 16” to cover their asses for selling NFA firearms to the public and reduce the backlash. There was also a lot of pressure at the time of the drafting the NFA from .22 shooting clubs as most of their rifles were 16”, so the original rule made an exception for .22’s, all other rifles originally needed to be 18”. Regardless, government dumb, and as with most things in life length doesn’t really matter
Glad your highlighting this for the masses
That awkward moment when you want to inform a Marine Special Operations vet about the m27…
That awkward moment when you want to inform a youtube commenter about the title of the video...
(M27 IAR is not an AR-15 variant, it is the military designation for an HK416, which is an entirely distinct weapons platform)
He wasn’t one of the best.
@@piratewhoisquietThe HK416 is technically still just a variant of the AR-15 but with a short-stroke gas piston. The whole designation “416” is literally referring to the M4 + M16 family.
@@piratewhoisquiet I mean dude...they literally took Stoner's AR18 mechanism and mated it with an AR15 lower. It's an AR15 derivative. Personally I'd rather have classic coke instead of new coke but hey to each their own. If the Marines wanna lug around a 12lbs m4 with 100ish fps more muzzle velocity well...that's why they get paid the big bucks I reckon.
@@armorers_wrench
HK 416 has nothing to do with the Ar18. It’s just an external piston ar15.
I'm not trying to correct anybody, and you're right that the U.S. military hasn't used a 16-inch AR. However, the M27 IAR, M38 DMR, and the M110A1 are all 16-inch barrels but they are HK416s and an HK417 for the higher caliber M110A1.
Again, these are different platforms, but 16-inch barrels are now being used as a service rifle (for those who are lucky) by the Marine Corps and have been used by all branches with the M110A1.
16”-18” is only about a 30-50 fps difference when using 77gr otm or similar ammo. The key difference isn’t the fps gain, but the gas system, signature reduction potential, and balance. Rifle length gas and balance lends itself to easier follow on shots and spotting for yourself. The longer barrel allows for more powder burn, easing the burden on your flash hider or suppressor when mitigating muzzle flash and sound. Even running a brake for longer engagements to really min/max balance and recoil, is less annoying and has overall less signature. Pair that with a qd suppressor to run on the brake and you run a pretty sweet setup
Oh, and tip for any BDC reticle (specifically for ACOGs):
Go to the reticle manual and compare the reticle to your calculated drop (use any ballistic app of your choice). It will likely not run exact unless you use exactly their specified ammo and barrel combo. Ammo with the same weight may not even go the same velocities or have matching BCs. So let’s say at 500m, you have to aim slightly high on the target. *Use the 500 hashmark on the reticle to range the target, then use it as a reference for drop*. The hashes on the ACOG are roughly the same size as the average male’s shoulder to shoulder measurement at the given range indicated on each hashmark.
16" can use a rifle length system just fine.
Did you just say signature reduction while also talking about using a brake? Gtfo
Original post is a UA-cam gun professional with zero experience and no knowledge.
@@Rubelesslmao are ypu really that starved for attention that you feel the need to comment negatively on so many comments? Get a life bud.
The most important piece of information in this entire video at 10:50. 2 inches is significant 😆
If the güberment hadn't "screwed up", it would be 18" bbl minimum length still, under the NFA (except .22lr being 16")
My 16 inch I was hitting steel at 500 yards, awesome video thank you
At 500 yards, your bullet isn't as effective as one from a 20".
@@terrytolentino54595.56 isn’t really effective at that range out of any length
@@Cessna172SNavIII Wrong. 5.56 was made for a 20" barrel. There's a video that shows the 5.56 hitting a gel dummy out to 600 yards with a fatal hit.
@ I saw a guy hitting 700 yard shots with a 9” 300 blackout, which can still kill, doesn’t mean it’s effective out to these distances. 5.56 is losing way too much steam at these distances and doesn’t buck the wind well
Some say 5" is more than enough 😁
🥁
5 inches is huge bro
Until she gets 8”, they always come back at least once regardless of what’s on her finger
I like the 20-rd mag and bipods 😊
Same.
Interestingly, 16" is also the barrel length point where velocity starts to drop off really fast.
from 20" down to 16" - you're losing 20-50FPS per inch of barrel length reduction.
From 16" downward - you start losing much more velocity, per inch.
16" is by far the best compromise between length, and velocity, if that matters to your use case.
For me, saving 1.5" on barrel length by dropping to a 14.5 - is not worth the trade off of ~100FPS in velocity, especially if I'm just P&Wing back to 16".
If I'm going under 16 - it's going to be for a dedicated suppressed set up.
Bullpups are the greatest cheat code ever invented to get around the gymnastics people do to try to get a ballistically advantageous rifle but also have it as short as possible. I exclusively keep a bullpup for serious use and training. I can easily shoot it as effective as my AR's, the downsides can be addressed with training or changing your operating procedures. I maintain they are the future now that I've seen the light after a decade of living in denialism.
@@FloorItDuhbullpups come with their own set of compromises.
@@FloorItDuhthere’s a couple Bullpup kits for the AR15 platform now and they seem to be really nice. Especially the SARB-15
It means nothing. Worry about bigger issues, try doing 20 pull ups.
You don't JUST loose velocity by going with a 16 inch you increase recoil. I think most people would like the 18 inch better. If they want short run the 18 inch naked, no muzzle device. It will be the same length and ZERO recoil. Faster engagement and shots on target.
16” with a K can is typically still shorter than the m4a1 block 1 suppressed
You get a ton of lethality with that barrel length
Doesn’t make for the best home defense setup but as a shtf/war rifle it’s phenomenal
14.5 pinned supremacy
Amen 🙏🏻
Take out “pinned” and you’re right!
@@joshuas390 I'm scared of the Feds. I don't even let Local Bubba Joe pin mine. I send mine off to D Wilson Manufacturing so there is an actual paper trail. Invoice, shipping, credit card, the works. And I don't even have a dog. But maybe i'm a pu...
I have a faxon gunner intergral flash hider barrel and gas system to sell. I though it was cool but a rifle lenth gas system shoots faster, less recoil.
I wouldn't have bought one before, but I won an FN America completed 14.5 pinned and welded upper and it's been great.
Current marine corps infantry’s rifle is a 16 inch ar and I enjoyed it quite a bit, it was just heavy.
Answer: Yes. Quantified Performance, General Purpose division.
LOVE my ACOG/RMR combo on mine, cost me a pretty penny but will totally outlive me and makes shooting my 16" stupidly easy
16 inch is great because mid length gas tubes with proper gassing is a thing. I don’t care nearly as much about the velocity gains as I do about reliability and not getting completely gassed out in the process if running suppressed. I had a carbine length 16 inch stag as my first rifle and it ran great but is quite gassy compared to my mid length.
10.5 is for the bedside gun, but 16 inch is for the outside gun.
Sorry but a 10.5" 5.56 for use inside your own house is almost the worst pick possible
@ What makes you say that? It has a suppressor and I’m also running FBIT3 TBBC soft points, which expand well up to 50 yards with that barrel length. The military literally uses mk18s for CQB inside structures because they’re more handy and lighter than suppressed m4s and within structures, they’re still quite lethal. But hey, everyone’s got opinions.
@inferninx well. 2 main reasons. Maybe 3.
1 - you solved. Noise and concussion
2 - overpenetration. Big problem here when it's your own home and you need to protect your family. Not send a bullet through 3 walls.
3 - 5.56 is really not good at incapacitating someone quickly. Though that can be debated, it's mostly true.
Many other options on the table for inside that i believe to be better. But outside is obviously a whole different game. This is all relative to home protection only
@ FBIT3 TBBC softpoints have the over penetration problem solved, even from a shorter barrel length. Softpoints tend to dump all their energy immediately when they hit a target and expand, and in the event you miss have been proven to have less overpenetration through multiple walls than standard 5.56 FMJ and also less than 9mm. Higher speed and less mass means less overpenetration potential, since it sheds that velocity very quickly. 30 round mags mean if they don’t drop from the first shot, you’ve got plenty of follow up opportunities. If you say 5.56 is ineffective, I’d happily disagree as it’s been proven from numerous shootings to be quite lethal, especially since it has a tendency for excellent accuracy and follow up shots are very easy to achieve. But hey, you’re welcome to disagree as everyone’s got an opinion. You do you sir. 🫡
@@Bischlarbo69300BLK running subs and suppressed would be far superior for bedside/inside the home
I have a handful of ARs ranging from 10.5 to 18 inches, my two favorites are my M4 clone pinned and welded, and also my 16”.
ive been running a 14.5 for 5 years and no one has ever hassled me. even had a Sheriff look at it on the bench, dude was clueless
most cops are clueless i avoid talking to cops at all.
based
Ah yes admit to a felony on a liberal run social media platform.
It’s so close to 16 that nobody cares
@@Devin7Eleven yeah I have a SF warcomp so it make it look longer
They changed the rule as it was originally 18 inch, just like the shotgun. That was until we got surplus m1 carbines that veterans wanted to purchase. So it was changed from 18.5 down to 16
If you secretly swapped out someone's 16" for a 14.5" and had them train for years with it. Chances are very high they would never notice. It's funny to hear guys claim that 1.5" will make or break CQB, but would never give much thought to trying to build streamlined LBE to make sure their kit doesn't get caught on doors. Anything between 11.5" and 16" is splitting hairs. Buy what makes you happy, but don't pretend you're making any difference by getting a 13.7.
That bit of length saved on a 14.5 is felt most when working in and out of vehicles, particularly for LE who don't want to use a department issued gun or mess with getting a tax stamp for an SBR.
Most people don't need to worry about this and would be just fine with a 16in.
Cops are not getting in and out of their victors with their rifles at all or very rarely. For a job that requires one to wear a gun, cops rank low on weapons confidence.
14.5 feels and looks smaller. You got a 13 inch rail on a 14.5 compared to a 15 inch. 1.5 inches of missing barrel and 2 inches of missing rail.
I run a 11.5 and a 16. They are the two best lengths for each category. 11.5 is significantly better than 10.3 and is way shorter than a 16-20in build. 16 is as long as you go and not have a overly heavy long rifle. But yes you can definitely run both cqb but you will notice a difference.
Or a 13 in rail on a 16 in gun. Have you ever seen bcm uppers?
I wish more youtubers used music like you guys do in your videos. it adds a neat edge to the video.
US military is the only reason 14.5 inch barrels exist. It’s the other way around. 16 inch barrels are the standard for rifles.
The idea that if it wasn’t for the NFA that there would be no 16 inch guns is ridiculous.
The 16" or 14.5" pin and weld will give the best for muzzle velocity and still maneuverable enough
16:01 y’all should convince trijicon or the elcan manufacturer to make fixed magnification optics with a mil based reticle. Optimized for gpr type applications and easy to mount a t-2 style optic on top
If there was a need or market, they would. Raytheon makes the elcan and it’s heavy and expensive, better options out there.
Stay tuned.
@@Rubeless Elcan isn't heavy
My truck gun is 16” for a reason you mentioned, travel. We rv a lot across state lines. I practice with 16” and work around its OAL issues just to avoid potential legal issues. Man is my shorter setup fun though.
Completely forgot the M27 currently being issued to the USMC which id 16.5" barrels
Video title literally says AR-15. M27 is NOT an AR-15 pattern, it is the military designation for an HK416, completely different platform.
Looks the same so it’s not completely different
@@Rubeless I refuse to grant the premise that looks have anything to do with it... but they don't even look the same either??? Wtfff????
See a doctor. Benzo time
@@piratewhoisquietHK416 is just an AR-15 with an external gas piston. Otherwise, the bolt, bolt carrier, and buffer design are all basically the same. Manual of arms are the same.
Nothing wrong with a 16 inch rifle. My favorite all around barrel length still is 14.5 midlength. Still handy, still capable at distance, not insanely loud uncorked, and smooth shooting.
Yes
Actually 2 or 3
Bcm 14.5 standard m4 upper P&W FSP was my first official rifle. im putting a 11.5 together but i love my little m4 lookalike quad rail with a fsp . So much fun to train with.
The perfect length is a 15.3 in a new gas system length.
Just bc something new.
Isn't that rhe length C8s use?
15.4”
All the legal issues and none of the benefits
UKSF issue C8SFW has a 15.7" tube. @@armynurseboy
Whats extremely frustrating is that where i live in South Africa, all the best ARs come from the US. So, even though we dont have restrictions on barrel length, or suppressors, if i want to get a decent 14.5 it still comes pinned and welded because thats the way its manufactured and exported. Much easier to go with an 11.5.
Honestly, for civilians. I think the 20" AR is the best. Remember, if you're doing CQB, something has gone horribly wrong and you're about to die. You generally want to stay away from things that are trying to kill you.
agreed but i would say 18"
The amount of people online who want to do CQB is shocking. Just goes to show they don't know anything.
@@jjgriffin3275 I think 18" is a fine choice as well. You'll see nothing but MK12 content on my channel these days. I just think that the most practical choice for a civilian is an M16A1 type build. Bomb proof iron sights, no adjustments, just a solid battle zero, and plenty of velocity with the 55gr fmj. Not to mention, super light weight and handy. Keep in mind that the average civilian gun owner almost never goes to the range to train, and when they do, they sit on a bench and shoot paper plates at 100 yds. There is a reason why the AK does so well in Africa and the middle east.
@@joemama69448 Yeah. If it every comes to it (hopefully not), they'll find out real quick what it means to be afraid.
@@joemama69448the best are the ones who are obsessing over short barrels and CQB tactics and footwork…yet have never mastered basic rifle marksmanship . Never went prone at a 300yd range.
Fantastic video. I love all the mentions of the MK12. I’ve only ever owned 10.5, 11.5 & 14.5” AR’s but finally decided this year that I needed an excuse for a 16” or 18”. And so I purchased a MK12 Mod H from PRI + OCM5 suppressor and an ATACR 1-8x, per a build 5th SFG used to use. It’s an absolutely fantastic setup and I cannot believe how quiet it is for an AR.
My main use case is for 500-700 yard hog & coyote hunting as my 11.5 main squeeze just wasn’t doing it. I’m in and out of a Polaris quite a bit for these so keeping it short was a big deal. The 2” difference between the 18” Mod 0 and 16” Mod H was only about a 50 FPS drop, which I was more than fine with. Along with the collapsing stock, the Mod H gets much more compact than a MK12 Mod 0.
It shoots way better than I do and has been very effective so far. Again, I can’t believe how quiet it is for an AR. I might thrown a stronger ATACR + RMR combo on it but honestly the 1-8 has been more than handy for everything between 25 and 700 yards. The only reason I’d want the glass is so I’d have the RMR for passive shooting under NVG’s.
Thanks for reading my TedTalk, just sharing my own personal experience with the MK12 Mod H. Can’t recommend it enough!
I like my 16” rifle but my 18” and 11.5” are my favorite.
11.5 suppressed is a very versatile length and quite functional for the average civilian who MIGHT use the rifle to defend their home. I really think its a worthwhile investment to have at least one SBR lower. I've taken my 11.5 out to 500m and it was easy. It is obviously ideal for 1-200m and as a civ when are you seriously gonna engage beyond 200m? The odds of that happening are really, really low. I think 11.5 makes a lot of sense.
In terms of the NFA and just overall barrel length options, 16” is still the best barrel length possible IMO. 16” Carbine length rifles got a special place in my heart since it was my first AR ever.
If anyone does use one I’d easily say get a mid length especially if you plan on running suppressed and to just save some wear on parts
California needs its balls back. The mods we gotta do to our rifles is beyond laughable. #fingripgang
The optimal barrel for a PCC is generally 10". PCC is gaining a significant amount of popularity, and with good reason. Just repeal the NFA, and provide safety training for all gun owners with their first purchase.
Isn’t the marines current issued rifle a 16” with a can ?
the m27 IAR
You are correct, the marine's current issued rifle is in fact not an AR-15, and the USAF have never issued an AR-15 variant with a sixteen inch barrel (other than of course the Mk 12 Mod H as was mentioned in the video) as stated by Brandon in this video; the title of which explicitly states the topic of discussion as being the sixteen inch AR-15.
No
@@piratewhoisquiet
He also mentioned weapons in military service, I think that includes the HK rifle issued to marines man. Either way im not saying he’s wrong due to these two examples it’s a cool video going over a topic, but it doesn’t discount the 16” from being a viable length for any use case you have.
@@bigslice4738 the mention of weapons in military service was made in the specific context of the AR-15 platform and its variations. As such, no, it does not include the M27 IAR. I give no commentary on the viability of any barrel length of any rifle platform for any use case whatsoever. Your reply is still the best I've received thus far.
There’s two Rifles in 16” configuration to think of. The HK M27 family used by the Marines and the Mk12 Mod H.
NFA aside, there’s two other advantages to a 16” Rifle, one of which you mentioned in the difference between a 16” and an 18”. So too is the same difference between a 14.5” and an 16”. The main advantage of a 16” Rifle when paired with a 15” Forend especially, taller people like myself can place our support hand farther out to support the Rifle and have that setup be optimal to us. I retain Iron Sights, the space to put an IR/Laser like a DBAL or PEQ-15, and immediately behind that have my switch gear for both it and the Light. If you’re 6’0” or shorter, a 13” Forend over a 14.5” Barrel would be my pick. If you’re 6’3” or taller, a Rifle that fits you is important so I picked the 16” over the 14.5” Pinned. Just so happens that I have a Rifle that I can flex into any Role I could ever possibly need it to fill. Right now, just an EOTech and a Light. I do have a dedicated SPR under development.
I'm not sure how an honest 3050 fps is not relevant. We don't train on paper targets to shoot paper targets. Velocity matters. Just saying.
It can and does for certain loads more so than others.....
I'll get WAY better performance out of my 14.5 shooting my M855a1 or my 62gr Bonded Soft points or MK262 than the 99% of people who just plan on using their 55gr TRAINING AMMO and shitty green tip as a "duty load" from their 16in shooting just a bit faster.
You can offset some of the issues with velocity with proper ammunition selection for a REAL duty load. Ammo designed with lower velocity thresholds in mind ECT ECT.
193 IS a duty load from a 20in gun. But the VAST majority of people stocking up on Winchester white box and PMC 223 and shit, and then want to argue about 1.5 inch of barrel length 😂
@@mrdark9916 Hey I totally agree with all of that. Its just that Lake City M193 is often the best many can do. And that is certainly velocity dependent. I myself have been considering allocating the fiances to retire my thousands of rounds of M193 for training, and dedicate the cash to replacing it with IMI 77 grn. But to be clear- For me it is not financially possible to replace it with thousands of rounds of Black Hills MK262!! I don't consider myself a poor, but I ain't Gold Plated. If you are? Good on ya!
@kanejakejimmy nah it's about grabbing it here/there. For example, I bought my first federal bonded loads for $370/500rnd on sale. Gives ya 14 mags (2 full 7 mag loadout one for main use and a spare full loadout for contingency) and 80 spare rnds for zeroing and testing BDC ECT
For 77s, I have found the AAC 77gr OTMs (MK 262 clones) to be an exceptional option, anytime they are on sale for $10.99 a box I grab a bunch, I have a few k of them now.
For a main duty ammo like Bonded bullets or 70gr Barnes ECT you don't need a ton of. Just make the plunge one time to get 500 rounds for the Peace of mind. It's not stuff you shoot all the time, and it'll be there when you do need it
@@Jake7B I'm just a normal guy tho. Carpenter making $28/hr, but I budget specifically to allocate part of every check for gear and ammo, and I very often work days off for extra hours, and that money I can spend guilt-free because it's extra put aside specifically for preps ECT.
Meanwhile MK18s have taken plenty of people regardless of your paper velocity numbers
Bro, standoff beats room clearing, if down to it can still clear buildings with 16in (ugh falluja duh), usually not pinned and welded, better ballistics with wider range of rounds (m855a1 is DESTROYING BCGs trying to compensate for shorter barrels) and if you've spent time in the military like me, it's what I'm used to.
"A Guy" who just happened to be a MARSOC Raider....your opinion carries a little more weight. Thank you for your service.
He was not a Raider he was a SOCS-C
I dont hate Ar15 pistol. I must admit i have one at least. But my 300bo (pistol gas system) and 556 (i have in carbine, mid, and even rifle gas system) all in 16. So i do have 16 dissipator a 16" barrel with rifle gas system. Lol.
Speaking of 16" i just finished a complete upper classic m4 build that was running quad rail carbine with ar2 fsb and detachable carrying handle and i love it so much it feels so nostalgic
@0:49 - military has never issued 16” AR before? I remember in 2009, checking out from the Armory the last rifle I used in the Marine Corps, a brand new 16” Colt M4 with ACOG
Was most likely a 14.5 (its literally such a small difference that no one actually notices)
@@CatholicKit m27 IAR has a 16 inch barrel
Colt m4 is 14.5 in. barrel. Source: grunt
If you genuinely did check out a "brand new sixteen inch Colt M4" you should have reported a production fault with your armorer, since that would represent a deviation from the "Carbine, Caliber 5.56 mm, M4" specification, which specifies a barrel length of fourteen and one half inches.
@@calebhammonds6338 M27 IAR is military designation for HK416, not an AR-15 pattern rifle, as the video title would infer is being referred to herein.
16 inch AR is small enough. If I weighed 150 lbs I’d probably be more concerned
I still prefer 14.5 plus weld.. I don't see much benefit from the extra 1.5in, living in a city/suburban environment
It's cheaper to assemble 16" barrels without the labor of pinning and welding. Manufacturers will cut all costs possible.
@@mke259 true, but me personally I'd rather shell out the extra bucks. Like this guy said, 1.5in may not seem like alot, but it is (for CQB)!
@@edxlee5.56 is a bit much for cqb. Hope you don't have any pets
@@edxlee but its not. now 4-5 inches is a lot but the length of an a2 flash hider will not make much difference.
I prefer 13.7/14.5 P&W I have 16 I shoulder it man I got power with this barrel length then after 5 minutes of shooting it just feels boring bulkyI I know it’s about ballistics I always go back to 11.5/14.5.
After seeing a never ending amount of people on Reddit post their unhealthy obsession with 11s and 14s, it sure is a welcoming relief to see people still long for standard 16s. If you have a 20 then all the more power to you. Makes those rounds zip faster. Shorter barrels just creates problems like excessive flash, more recoil, and of course slower velocity. That's exactly what _nobody_ needs if it's dark out while hunting wildlife.
Without the ATF and NFA the most common rifle barrel length would probably be between 12-14” and my guess would be a 12.5” because that is a really good do all length. Good for home defense yet still able to shoot out to 500-700 yards no problem.
A 12.5" 5.56 is terminally effective out to within 100 yards of the generally accepted max range for .308? I don't think so brother. Even 77gr at that distance out of that barrel is near subsonic velocities.
@@mitchschutter4302 agreed. You might be able to take it out to 500 yard steel on a 12.5 with 77g with a near equal hit percentage as a 16” but past that your hit percentages are doing to start diverging fast.
And that’s just banging steel, not touching on the terminal effectiveness.
12.5 is trash
You are not shooting to 500 and beyond with a 12.5" barrel. Full stop. Even if you aren't lying the terminal ballistics would be so terrible the round is keyholing by the time it gives the target a gentle flick.
My shorty is 12.5 simply because I split the difference between an M4 and MK18, bonus that I can run a midlength gas tube reliably as well.
Personally I recommend a 1in barrel to where the projectile is sticking out the barrel therefore it gets a head start coming out the barrel
I'm going 16 because I'm not going to pin&weld my barrel just so I can feel tacticool with a shorter rifle
You sound the exact same as a boomer fudd saying "I'm not getting an AR so I can feel tacticool".
You can't weld
20 inch barrels were the modern M16 with a buttstock they later went to the M4. My experience I loved my m16 on the range and longer barrel. Room clearing was absolutely possible but not as effective as M4, but it didn’t stop the marines!
Thanks for the content!
Asking is the 16in "relevant" is just stupid AF. Of course it is.
Well we have made a full circle now, boys
people buy 10.3s or 11.5s and put a suppressor on just to have more muzzle flash than a 16" with a good flash hider and about the same length and same weight with less velocity
Dont tell em about 300blk
@ 300blk is love
My 12.5 doesn't have much flash with a can🤷🏻♂️
@ you confirm the point I made above
in my book, 14.5” is just a way to spend a useless $200 to get something tied to your name over an inch and a half and a few less ounces of weight. If you’re going to bite the bullet, go shorter than 14.5” to make it worth your time and money. End of the day- 16” is the best overall setup.
“These are like 800 bucks, so they’re really cheap” haha. Thats not cheap
A 16" AR has a lot of things going for it. With the right ammo/barrel configuration they can MOA accurate to 250 yards or so. You can sling a lot of lead quickly. You can keep it close to the body. But if you want to suppress that caliber I'd suggest going with a lever or bolt action.