Back in 1.09 I got into a PvP group whose rules were: No healing pots No NK No hacked items Clvl 76 (this kept a lot of hacked shit out anyways, at least at that time) The only other duels I really liked were the lvl 9 duels. Some of those guys were beasts! Crazy the power they could get from a lvl 9 character.
Only rules i play by are no healing pots and make sure the other person is ready to go. After that, it's game on and kill or be killed by any means necessary. If you have build that nerfs another persons build, great, that's the whole point. But characters that are only good against one type of character are typically weak against other types of characters so it's a rock, paper, scissors type thing. Great vid. Good to see people enjoying dueling after all this time.
Personally, when I'm dueling with friends, this is typically how we do it, too. In most cases, these are the two most important things that make a duel enjoyable.
8:15 is so true. Constantly going to town before you are about to die is extremely annoying. I'd say it's considered BM if they continue to do it over and over again and just don't "want to die". It's like the ufc analogy, where at the end of the fight, the fighter who's getting stomped at the last round, just leaves the arena lol. I think it's fine for a couple times, but if it continuously happens oh man it's so aggravating
Ya and the reason a bunch of new people wanting to legit play the game in a good manner way probably quit cause of a holes killing them and looting their stuff....... It's fun for the person with a lvl 90 char of every class but a little scummy to kill a lvl 60 or lower and pretend to be "Having Fun", probably not fun to lose hard earned stuff and either try to trade for it back or go earn it again in a game as random as D2.
@@gunzakimbo eh? This reply is equivelant to yelling POTATO during a political conversation at a dinner party. You are talking about exploiting by popping corpses? Yeah that's not what we are talking about here cowboy
this method is really effective gold farming, because no one can hit you until you up lvl 9, this gold cam be transferred to high lvl mule for gambling.
When we duel on hardcore the potion rule is non exitent :) dueling was with unlimited refills of full rejuvinating potions and the player who is able to burst the other before he drinks a full reju - wins. Thats how we did it 20 years ago. Barb vs barb 1.07 - version of the game
Slowing and absorbing sounds like a strat and not BM to me. I haven't played D2 in a long time but shouldn't it be up to your opponent to figure out how to counter that?
rules varied a lot depending on the community you dueled with. some things were also hypocritical like slow was widely considered bm from items cause it was gearing against specific opponents, but 50% slow from clay golem was considered gm and it was way stronger. Poison charms being bm is more of a legacy thing back from when people used poison charms or undergeared opponents thought poison damage was overpowered, but in reality characters loaded up with 320s were stronger so some communities thought it was fair to allow poison builds cause they really weren't that good on the high end of things. barbs having doom on switch was considered fine where I dueled, but if there was an amazon in the game oh boy would they complain about being bm'd. sorb limit rules were also different depending on east/west servers. using charges on items was also considered gm/bm depending on the realm. in the end a lot of it was about having fun matchups reasonably balanced cause it was way too easy to get lopsided unwinnable 1v1 duels with the right setup. was less of an issue in 3v3 and 4v4.
Poison is bm because while it is easily countered, it is annoying to need another extra gear swap just because someone uses psn charms. Same with psn necros. Easily killed char, but annoying to need a new gear swap just to kill 1 l8z char.
This could use a part two. Your channel has grown a lot in a year. I think PvP really needs a chance to grow. It might be a cool idea to invite Llama or Dbrunski or some other mainly pvm streamer to collaborate on this. You could also do build videos on entry level characters. People might feel more interested in doing something if they feel like it's actually possible. A lot of players out there who didn't start jsp in time to sell d keys for 200 a pop. I'll never feel like I acquired enough while the getting was good. My 200fcr fireball sorc (budget) was a staple of my childhood. Got to spend about an hour maybe two a night fireball jousting.
Back in the day, I remember dropping junk on players' bodies and then when they would try to pick up their body and accidentally pick up the junk, I'd kill them and pop their inventories allowing me to loot their stuff.
In some rule sets, it depends on the % ES you have. It's generally discouraged, DFC currently allows it, but does not allow prebuffing your ES. Has evened out so far.
I actually made the most BM type of pvp char ever, for the nkers among us (cant remember the exact items). Amazone with fastest possible attack speed, bow/gear. Knockback, bleed, crushing blow, max slow AAAND all of my poisen charms :D To be honest, it was an old mule which i made for fun :D
I don't agree with the absorb. If you want to base your character to absorb as much as possible you're losing else where. but setting up to be good against specific char types and making yourself vulnerable to others. Diablo has always been pretty okay when it comes to balance, theres normally not always one end all be all build. get tired of sorcs.. try to get a lot of absorb. till a bear sorc comes and punches your teeth in. lol
I played .08 .09 An 10 I seen there was recent reset I'm an east guy an wad always heave into PvP whats this banned skills back in the day a duel was a duel...an being slowed sucked but it's a PvP build or used to. a super fast running charge pally was a bitch to fight lol an no iron maid/slow mis sounds like ppl are getting political about fighting ...only rule was... naked...
Yeah but that was back when life lechee and mana steal worked in pvp, dont even get me started on guided arrows pierce and fuck damage reduction nova sorcs...
I don’t recall any pub pvp games following most of these rules. It was always the damn Wild West. Healing and Nking are the only things I recall always being universally shit on. Banned moves are a completely new concept to me. But then again it’s been 10 years since I last played
a comment to your #3 when i was young we started the trend of an uber dual or an extended fight. this is when players could bring one belt full of potions (still no full rejuv) anyway it was an interesting way to see the fight happen. sometimes a person that would kill you in a regular dual would get stomped in an extended. :)
Literally not a single rule was around when I played most s1, 2, 3, 4 on us west. Literally all the absorb you can, full rejuvs all day, slow missiles can backfire anyway. While I would respect these new rules, I don't think I'd enjoy them. Outside of nk, everything else goes. 2 separate 1v1's going on at the same time, just run out and kill them all! It was definitely more of a king of the hill type thing. Whoever held the moor longest was best
also guided arrows normally won't lock onto targets unless they're on screen... When you shoot them at someone across the map, you still have to aim. It's also perfectly fine, like I said, to throw in multishots, because.. well, it's strategic. GA WAY more dmg than multishot did anyways... Amazon vs amazon duels are supposed to be fought at great distances from each other. Otherwise it's just a stat check, and not fun at all.
I used to use redvex mod which had auto aim, auto juv, and auto tp. I would gm duel but if someone in a game was bming or nk they would be in for a world of hurt. All I had to do was turn it on come in with a zon and auto aim charge strike them from across the screen. I couldnt die before juving or auto tp. Or ide come in with my smiter and auto charge them across the screen I was invisible till they were dead n the whole team i defeated would run for there bodies and all I had to do was target there name push a button and immediate death. No one wanted to mess with that.
Hm, Mercs are "BM" but I feel like infinity polearms make certain builds possible on characters who cant "use" them so they keep them on a desert merc. Same with faith bows. I mean yes everyone can use them but you know what I really mean. Am I wrong to want to use a merc as a battery to extend my skill pool based on items ive worked for? I havent actively played in probably 10 years and nobody seemed to mind back then.
What is this nonsense? :D From 1.09 to whenever, a duel/PvP is the ultimate experience in the game. You can use anything, just as the other players can. That's the idea - to be the best! Only hacks were frowned upon and people bad-mouthing, but that meant that everyone went after that guy and take their gold.
i absolutely agree with you, there should be 2 alternative set of rules, 1 for using everything and 2 with restrictions. But i wonder what is the strongest character if you can use everything ? amazon with slowing down missiles or necromancer with decripify and bone prison ?
as someone who knows nothing about pvp i wonder: ...why? why is slow missile banned, but not guided arrow? why holy freeze, but not teleport (especially pre-enigma days)? is it because if these things were allowed everyone would default to 2-3 build because they're just OP?
Not slowing someone has never been a rule in any duel been doing it since 2002, being overly defensive has never been a part of GM duels. This only comes from people who get clapped by a barb.
Huh, so in your D4 expectations video you stated how much Blizz nailed the balance around PvP but now I hear Im supposed to avoid a good chunk of core mechanics. Mixed feelings. Glad I found this channel, btw. Best D2 content, made me reinstall.
I play this game over 15 years, i am big fan, but i never found PVP on D2 interesting. However i know and respect rules in D2 pvp, i can't deal with it. Full absorb build IS simply overpowered, and some ideas like running instead fighting are dumb, but if i can't slow down smiter, because he is IAS based build, but he can kill me easly due to desync - thats wrong if you ask me. For me PVP in every game is ability to take advantege from game mechanic, if Holy Freez slows down assa traps, it's mean this is assa counter play, and if this is how game works, it's not "BM". Great video anyway, i respect D2 PVP players for they skill and game knowledge, but i keep away from pvp on D2 :D
@Coooley why are mana potions allowed? If you're too low on mana, shouldn't you have specced your char differently? I think there shouldn't be any beverage allowed.
Slows are grey zone, depending who you ask. I think cleg glovs and doom is fine to use and part of the game, slow missile and bone prison too. Ill go as far is not being offended by someone precasting fade to fight me. Overall, if you are unhappy with it, you can disengage, kiss Akara, nobody can force you to engage in battle that you feel is unfair. Everyone have his own personal flavour set of rules, so don't go if you don't have an agreement, it is as simple as that. Also have a super cheat option if the other dude is very insisting. Anybody lobbying for class skills ban is projecting his own flavour of "fair".
Sounds like a great idea. I doubt they would implement it for D2R, whereas they're focusing on keeping the game as similar as possible. Wouldn't be surprised if some sort of Arena was developed in D4 though!
People can choose to build their character how they want if they want max resist it’s on the opponent to figure out how to be versatile and not use that element that’s a ridic rule
On MLD as i know decreph isn’t allowed (let’s say to use lawbringer on a kicksin vs melee) or at least talk about before duel so u keep it gm. Sometimes we allowed holyfreeze in svs duels
Idk about limiting my res or sorb…I don’t have a full inv of 3/20/20 skill 40 lifers or nigma or perf Annis or torch’s my opponent may have them but I need to go easy on my res for sportsmanship reasons? Meh…I’ve sorbed damage since it became a thing what happened on d2x to make this a thing?
Hey! I have some questions, I've seen people talking about itens with charges (you can use the itens although you cant use the charges) some say its BM, but ive seen people using charges on duel. Also, i have a question about life tap on melee vs melee isnt that BM? Or you can use it?
Is the skill animation swap glitch considered BM in duels? (I assume yes) To clarify, I am talking about the one where you weapon swap and press a skill hotkey within one frame, and end up using the cast animation of the previously selected skill with the effect of the hotkeyed skill.
No absorb means no dr. Lol. Same with slow. My pally is a hammer another charger with no maxed offensive aura but uses everyy aura to beat every single build. Sorb all the elements. Block all the damage. And destroy everyone
Played TONS of D2 PvM, never liked PVP, so this video was very interesting for me. I don't get the "absorb" and "resistance" thing. You want to stack up defence, so that you get less damage but you don't stack your res with absorb? And how about skills that have that, like Cyclone from the druid or Bone Shield of the necro for dmg? Are those banned too?
the rules are there to give everyone a fighting chance. without limiting res/sorb stacking, there'd be no point to making a pvp sorc/trapsin because with enough stacking, you can completely nullify all their attacks.
@@JBlNN this is the most participation trophy thing I'ver ever heard... lol so you cant beat someone because you classed your char out. as a fire sorc. congrats them on being good against fire sorcs and come up with a strategy or new char to combat those people. your fire sorc will own many other types of chars that are gear out weak to you or just not specifically gear to combat fire. congrats! those are your wins. I will make multiple chars classed and geared out to do VERY specific things and they end up being VERY weak to others. I say congrats and find out if they would like to duel another one of my chars that I normally have specifically geared out to combat their fighting style/class. and I've been beat on those because they are just skilled players. I think the biggest BM he forgot to mention was whining because your char cant beat EVER other type of char.
Mana pots were BM for a very long time. A stacked ES sorc with 10k mana and a belt full of super mana pots was basically unkillable by casters (Poison obv sucked but yea)
@@GBEWgw2 Meh we always played empty belt duels. Seemed the fairest way to go. Actually penalize that Barb for only having 150 mana and only being able to WW 5 times lol made things much more interesting.
Haven't played softcore in 15 years or so. Checking this video to see if I should roll SC in D2R so I can duel. Honestly my impression after watching this video is that dueling seems like it would never become more than an incredibly small niche community. The rules seem way too complicated and extensive. The only way I can see it really taking off would be if Blizzard adds some arena feature that had a bunch of rules built in. So that you couldn't break the rules by ignorance. Some items/skills banned, ok button, instructions etc. Another thing which I guess seems like it would be problematic with dueling is the economy. I have played a lot of D2 but almost never traded. Reason is I don't find it fun to use items that possibly have been botted or duped. So if you are that kind of player who want to play "legit" I don't see how you wouldn't be at a disadvantage so massive that it would be impossible to have much of a chance. Guess I will probably stay in HC.
Yeah, a lot of these rules seem kind of weird and overwhelming to a player trying to get into dueling. Especially when it's things like "you can't have too high resistances/absorbs, you can't slow IAS based builds, you can't use slow missiles (and if you do, you're not allowed to take pride in the win." Like I can understand some limitations, but it's a little confusing to me that trying to use game mechanics to negate your opponent's advantages or exploit their weaknesses is "bad manners."
I don't understand the part where you shouldn't slow your opponent but I've seen people using clay golem which slows... Also some items have slow so what should I remove them?
woah. well all fine beside absorb and overly defensive rules, I remember 08/09 duels played a lot around this and maxing res. slow missile... well guess was forbidden since ever, while maiden was absolutely legit and most common way to kill as necro enemy barbarians. i also really don't appreciate banning hole freeze auras, only because some classes sucks vs it. thats a bad world out there, thats why hybrid builds were favoured. also the poison damage capped... i feel dueling changed much ;p my auradin had cleansing on some higher lvl for that
About the poison part: You said the only restriction on psn is amount of 451 scs, but psn nova necs are considered BM. Also, decrepify (regardless of actual rules) people whine about like hell. Same goes with Lower Resist. Pretty much if you play necro, get ready for whiners and get ready to discard half your spells.
I think you're mixing up some rules from *Team Duels* where Poison Nova and Lower Res are BM. But you're right about whiners... Although we never let those people stop us from building fun chars :P
Decrepify has such a small radius skill to cast even with skill boosted items that it's very hard to just land the curse on desynched paladins and whatnot. Almost never see Decrepify on Necro players because standing still if you're not FHR locking with spear is instant death.
i never liked d2jsp. I always thought it trivialized the point of ladder resets. and it seems like I remember back in .09 that domain name was being used to house forums for the meph bot, and it was linked officially by blizzhackers dot com which housed the forums for most other scripts/bots. oh and btw, potions were totally fine for dueling in hardcore mode, everyone used them. As a matter of fact, people who dueled often liked to stock up on LOTS of full rejuvs. Nobody had issue with people using them lol understandably. "keep it legit" was definitely a thing though...everyone had the MH that allowed you to see each other's inventory, so people would know anyways. most of these other things weren't really a thing. I've NEVER heard of that poison dmg limit. It was generally considered cheesy to have poison damage on AMAZONS, as there were a LOT of people doing it on softcore mode...but that's it. There were no rules against it, it was just cheesy. Gosupvp had their own rules about it, and I remember them telling me you couldn't have ANY poison damage, and it only really applied to amazons AFAIK.. I mean, I only dueled with Gosupvp on an amazon anyways. When 1.1 rolled around though, all limits of poison damage seemed to be nonexistant...I mean there were no more poison damage zons anymore, and in fact it seemed like there were strategies around open wounds when I came back to softcore mode for a little while. Btw, the slow item that's considered BM is Cleglaw's lol... and it's only considered BM on amazons understandably. WF/Knockback is also considered BM in Gosupvp, generally if you wanted to duel with an amazon and not be considered BM, you'd have to roll one of those 3 open socket cruel Matriarch bows of quickness with chipped gems. I mean, I guess Faith is fine these days, but in 1.09 the only good pvp bow that was "GM" as you call it, was a cruel matriarch of quickness with 3 open sockets(can't make em anymore for some reason). I never really got into dueling in 1.1. I got that out of my system in 1.09. I can't imagine what it's like these days...back in teh day good rare amulets with teleport charges were considered godly and people VERY RARELY had them. Enigma just makes me shudder. Probably a mad house.
I never understood why they removed cruels, I remember some pretty filthy cruel 6 soc CB with 3x 30/15s & 3x ohms. I would make a barb work to pvp with a decent cruel again..
@@Jjvblack88 they didn't remove cruels.. the affix still exists.. they removed the cube recipe that rolled magic weapons with 3 open sockets. I don't remember any 6os cruels.. i don't remember those being a thing. there were ethereal cruels though that you could reroll socket quest on until you got 2 open sockets... i had an ethereal cruel scissors suwayyah of evisceration with 2 open sockets on hardcore mode. Probably one of the best items I ever had. Thing about the ethereal versions is that you could only get them as drops from monsters.. and you'd have to check each individual one... would help if you had the MH that showed you if it was ethereal... but still.. crazy. why they are so rare.
@@aBanabis you are correct, I was confusing ith's. Same era and equally-ish as strong back in the day. Iths, cruels, white rings, hex charms seems like more was possible back then with pvp..
@@Jjvblack88 I remember white rings were only a thing on USWest. There was a short time where USEast was down for a few days for some reason, so I went over to West and got rich super fast because of Oculus rings being so ridiculously cheap. So overpowered, yet they were basically throw away items. lol
also when people dueled amazon vs amazon even in high tier gosupvp, they dueled a great distance from each other... they normally wouldn't see each other the entire time, you'd have to aim guided missiles at their X on the map... multishot was fine too... idk why u think it's BM lol.... you didn't just say go and start shooting arrows directly at each other like it was a stat check. i mean it's no fun that way, especially when there are clear differences in power.
If I can’t use frozen or slower the shots, than don’t use enigma or other expensive shit. Not every one is rich. Do it equal than instead instant win every-time. If you don’t like all skills there is, than don’t duel.
Your videos on d2 make me feel less like a pariah on the games I play. Crazy it took 20 years for good d2 content on youtube.
Completely the same feeling here 😂
Back in 1.09 I got into a PvP group whose rules were:
No healing pots
No NK
No hacked items
Clvl 76 (this kept a lot of hacked shit out anyways, at least at that time)
The only other duels I really liked were the lvl 9 duels. Some of those guys were beasts! Crazy the power they could get from a lvl 9 character.
@@GBEWgw2 thanks 😀
30 LLD was fun. Until hybrid runewords ruined that entirely.
Wow, this one is the best video I've ever seen In the history of D2. Keep it up, great work!!
Thanks, Ricardo. I appreciate you!
i have only one rule..take my ear before I take it from you..
@Merrill Matzen :D
Only rules i play by are no healing pots and make sure the other person is ready to go. After that, it's game on and kill or be killed by any means necessary. If you have build that nerfs another persons build, great, that's the whole point. But characters that are only good against one type of character are typically weak against other types of characters so it's a rock, paper, scissors type thing. Great vid. Good to see people enjoying dueling after all this time.
Personally, when I'm dueling with friends, this is typically how we do it, too. In most cases, these are the two most important things that make a duel enjoyable.
"You ever have that dream where you just can't run fast enough? Sucks, doesn't it?"
That's what made me subscribe. 😂
8:15 is so true. Constantly going to town before you are about to die is extremely annoying. I'd say it's considered BM if they continue to do it over and over again and just don't "want to die".
It's like the ufc analogy, where at the end of the fight, the fighter who's getting stomped at the last round, just leaves the arena lol. I think it's fine for a couple times, but if it continuously happens oh man it's so aggravating
Bro back in the day the mannerism you are pushing forward was extremely rare. That's what was fun about d2 though, the chaotic environment!
Ya and the reason a bunch of new people wanting to legit play the game in a good manner way probably quit cause of a holes killing them and looting their stuff.......
It's fun for the person with a lvl 90 char of every class but a little scummy to kill a lvl 60 or lower and pretend to be "Having Fun", probably not fun to lose hard earned stuff and either try to trade for it back or go earn it again in a game as random as D2.
@@gunzakimbo eh? This reply is equivelant to yelling POTATO during a political conversation at a dinner party. You are talking about exploiting by popping corpses? Yeah that's not what we are talking about here cowboy
Lol whenever I started a new character I’d first join a dueling game and wait for someone to die and take their gold
That is proper protocol LOL
this method is really effective gold farming, because no one can hit you until you up lvl 9, this gold cam be transferred to high lvl mule for gambling.
The best.
Used to play a pvp fireclaws bear. Was super fun but had no answer to almost all casters. Would love to see more melee pvp builds
I haven't heard of GM duels for 10 years omggggg blast from the pass
When we duel on hardcore the potion rule is non exitent :) dueling was with unlimited refills of full rejuvinating potions and the player who is able to burst the other before he drinks a full reju - wins. Thats how we did it 20 years ago. Barb vs barb 1.07 - version of the game
Slowing and absorbing sounds like a strat and not BM to me. I haven't played D2 in a long time but shouldn't it be up to your opponent to figure out how to counter that?
rules varied a lot depending on the community you dueled with.
some things were also hypocritical like slow was widely considered bm from items cause it was gearing against specific opponents, but 50% slow from clay golem was considered gm and it was way stronger. Poison charms being bm is more of a legacy thing back from when people used poison charms or undergeared opponents thought poison damage was overpowered, but in reality characters loaded up with 320s were stronger so some communities thought it was fair to allow poison builds cause they really weren't that good on the high end of things. barbs having doom on switch was considered fine where I dueled, but if there was an amazon in the game oh boy would they complain about being bm'd.
sorb limit rules were also different depending on east/west servers. using charges on items was also considered gm/bm depending on the realm.
in the end a lot of it was about having fun matchups reasonably balanced cause it was way too easy to get lopsided unwinnable 1v1 duels with the right setup. was less of an issue in 3v3 and 4v4.
Poison is bm because while it is easily countered, it is annoying to need another extra gear swap just because someone uses psn charms. Same with psn necros. Easily killed char, but annoying to need a new gear swap just to kill 1 l8z char.
hi agreed , you are smart!
Great vídeo man, love all content refer yo D2 btw, One of the Best games ever! You got a new sub
It sure is, man. Thanks so much for the sub!
This could use a part two. Your channel has grown a lot in a year.
I think PvP really needs a chance to grow. It might be a cool idea to invite Llama or Dbrunski or some other mainly pvm streamer to collaborate on this.
You could also do build videos on entry level characters. People might feel more interested in doing something if they feel like it's actually possible. A lot of players out there who didn't start jsp in time to sell d keys for 200 a pop. I'll never feel like I acquired enough while the getting was good.
My 200fcr fireball sorc (budget) was a staple of my childhood. Got to spend about an hour maybe two a night fireball jousting.
I remember those bear summon Druids just sitting getting those kills on neked players 😂
Oof 12 year old me’s shining char was a TG Druid lol
Slow missiles is hilarious. I love doing that against my friends.
Back in the day, I remember dropping junk on players' bodies and then when they would try to pick up their body and accidentally pick up the junk, I'd kill them and pop their inventories allowing me to loot their stuff.
Bm
Nice lmao
Dirty haha
Ya, the kind of a hole that he was talking about in his earlier vids? Good for you buddy.......
@@gunzakimbo well... it was 20 years ago and back then ppl weren't so soft.
What bout an ES soso are the allowed to drink mana too? i find it kinda unfair? and the apponements wont even know it?
In some rule sets, it depends on the % ES you have. It's generally discouraged, DFC currently allows it, but does not allow prebuffing your ES. Has evened out so far.
certain necro curses also banned such as life tap from dracul's grasp. It's free pot
I actually made the most BM type of pvp char ever, for the nkers among us (cant remember the exact items). Amazone with fastest possible attack speed, bow/gear. Knockback, bleed, crushing blow, max slow AAAND all of my poisen charms :D To be honest, it was an old mule which i made for fun :D
Great videos man. Love D2!
I don't agree with the absorb. If you want to base your character to absorb as much as possible you're losing else where. but setting up to be good against specific char types and making yourself vulnerable to others. Diablo has always been pretty okay when it comes to balance, theres normally not always one end all be all build. get tired of sorcs.. try to get a lot of absorb. till a bear sorc comes and punches your teeth in. lol
I watched this video to get tips on what to do with BM players who mess around in my farming games. The answer is to use BM dueling tactics.
Thanks, I learn so much from ur D2 videos. You rock!
Your knowledge on this game is insane dude!
#4 keep it legit ... duels in a community where everyone uses hybrid runewords and known dupes.
Rabis druids tend to be considered bm for the bone wall bug and that you literally just run away lol
I played .08 .09 An 10 I seen there was recent reset I'm an east guy an wad always heave into PvP whats this banned skills back in the day a duel was a duel...an being slowed sucked but it's a PvP build or used to. a super fast running charge pally was a bitch to fight lol an no iron maid/slow mis sounds like ppl are getting political about fighting ...only rule was... naked...
Yeah but that was back when life lechee and mana steal worked in pvp, dont even get me started on guided arrows pierce and fuck damage reduction nova sorcs...
Haha when guided would pierce 10 times. That was awesome
I don’t recall any pub pvp games following most of these rules. It was always the damn Wild West. Healing and Nking are the only things I recall always being universally shit on. Banned moves are a completely new concept to me. But then again it’s been 10 years since I last played
a comment to your #3 when i was young we started the trend of an uber dual or an extended fight. this is when players could bring one belt full of potions (still no full rejuv) anyway it was an interesting way to see the fight happen. sometimes a person that would kill you in a regular dual would get stomped in an extended. :)
This sounds awesome! haha And yes, I've seen the Grim Dawn mod. Looks cool!
Nice Video. U forget Prison vs no Enigma Chars :P
heh necromancer is the ultimate BM class imo :D revive a bunch of souls from WSK (this is great with LR :D), decrep, prison, iron maiden
Literally not a single rule was around when I played most s1, 2, 3, 4 on us west. Literally all the absorb you can, full rejuvs all day, slow missiles can backfire anyway. While I would respect these new rules, I don't think I'd enjoy them. Outside of nk, everything else goes. 2 separate 1v1's going on at the same time, just run out and kill them all! It was definitely more of a king of the hill type thing. Whoever held the moor longest was best
I am watching this in 2024 because I am thinking of getting into dueling I am wondering if Cooley will ever do an update to this???
also guided arrows normally won't lock onto targets unless they're on screen... When you shoot them at someone across the map, you still have to aim. It's also perfectly fine, like I said, to throw in multishots, because.. well, it's strategic. GA WAY more dmg than multishot did anyways... Amazon vs amazon duels are supposed to be fought at great distances from each other. Otherwise it's just a stat check, and not fun at all.
I used to use redvex mod which had auto aim, auto juv, and auto tp. I would gm duel but if someone in a game was bming or nk they would be in for a world of hurt. All I had to do was turn it on come in with a zon and auto aim charge strike them from across the screen. I couldnt die before juving or auto tp. Or ide come in with my smiter and auto charge them across the screen I was invisible till they were dead n the whole team i defeated would run for there bodies and all I had to do was target there name push a button and immediate death. No one wanted to mess with that.
Hm, Mercs are "BM" but I feel like infinity polearms make certain builds possible on characters who cant "use" them so they keep them on a desert merc. Same with faith bows. I mean yes everyone can use them but you know what I really mean.
Am I wrong to want to use a merc as a battery to extend my skill pool based on items ive worked for? I havent actively played in probably 10 years and nobody seemed to mind back then.
Mercs are considered "BM" in good-mannered duels, but people make BM chars all the time haha. I say, do what makes you happy!
What is this nonsense? :D From 1.09 to whenever, a duel/PvP is the ultimate experience in the game. You can use anything, just as the other players can. That's the idea - to be the best! Only hacks were frowned upon and people bad-mouthing, but that meant that everyone went after that guy and take their gold.
Other than that, your videos are cool to watch :)
i absolutely agree with you, there should be 2 alternative set of rules, 1 for using everything and 2 with restrictions. But i wonder what is the strongest character if you can use everything ? amazon with slowing down missiles or necromancer with decripify and bone prison ?
I remember when i played back in 1.10 necromancer was basically banned from dueling because of poison, decrepify and bone wall lol
Necros = still OP!
if this was USeast duel rules this video would have been 45 minutes long
as someone who knows nothing about pvp i wonder: ...why?
why is slow missile banned, but not guided arrow? why holy freeze, but not teleport (especially pre-enigma days)?
is it because if these things were allowed everyone would default to 2-3 build because they're just OP?
Not slowing someone has never been a rule in any duel been doing it since 2002, being overly defensive has never been a part of GM duels. This only comes from people who get clapped by a barb.
Huh, so in your D4 expectations video you stated how much Blizz nailed the balance around PvP but now I hear Im supposed to avoid a good chunk of core mechanics. Mixed feelings.
Glad I found this channel, btw. Best D2 content, made me reinstall.
I mean you could use pots if u want, probably won’t help you.
Shoutout to GoKissAkara
That's a lot of stuff you need to ban if you play the xpac compared to classic lol.
I play this game over 15 years, i am big fan, but i never found PVP on D2 interesting. However i know and respect rules in D2 pvp, i can't deal with it. Full absorb build IS simply overpowered, and some ideas like running instead fighting are dumb, but if i can't slow down smiter, because he is IAS based build, but he can kill me easly due to desync - thats wrong if you ask me. For me PVP in every game is ability to take advantege from game mechanic, if Holy Freez slows down assa traps, it's mean this is assa counter play, and if this is how game works, it's not "BM". Great video anyway, i respect D2 PVP players for they skill and game knowledge, but i keep away from pvp on D2 :D
@Coooley why are mana potions allowed? If you're too low on mana, shouldn't you have specced your char differently? I think there shouldn't be any beverage allowed.
Not a dueler... but I think that decrep is ok because it's so small and short.
man member them .09 patch days trying to get my body to be guided arrowed over and over again ! made my 7th grade year remediable
thanks coooley
i use to melee in the east with palapk group. everyone was using 20 STR strength charms while claiming legit LOL
Nah m8. My ice maiden slows everything. That’s her thing. The cold aura and the slow missiles is all she has. It’s great fun too.
Slows are grey zone, depending who you ask. I think cleg glovs and doom is fine to use and part of the game, slow missile and bone prison too. Ill go as far is not being offended by someone precasting fade to fight me.
Overall, if you are unhappy with it, you can disengage, kiss Akara, nobody can force you to engage in battle that you feel is unfair. Everyone have his own personal flavour set of rules, so don't go if you don't have an agreement, it is as simple as that. Also have a super cheat option if the other dude is very insisting.
Anybody lobbying for class skills ban is projecting his own flavour of "fair".
These sound like they could benefit from being server settings for duelling specifically for the D2 remaster. Ever considered suggesting these?
Sounds like a great idea. I doubt they would implement it for D2R, whereas they're focusing on keeping the game as similar as possible. Wouldn't be surprised if some sort of Arena was developed in D4 though!
People can choose to build their character how they want if they want max resist it’s on the opponent to figure out how to be versatile and not use that element that’s a ridic rule
are you playing on the offical blizzard server or is there a dueling server ?
USEast, brother. Although the Asgard resource refers to a pvp server, a lot of people observe it on the realm.
You didn't cover shrines. With that said, great video!
On MLD as i know decreph isn’t allowed (let’s say to use lawbringer on a kicksin vs melee) or at least talk about before duel so u keep it gm. Sometimes we allowed holyfreeze in svs duels
Can you do a video on name-lock and/or stomping?
Absolutely will be included in a future vid. Thanks man!
Dope shit dude
What about town camping and auradins? 😏 Oh, this brought back memories. Haven't played since 2013.
Last Wish and Exile okay? I know a lot of people are against life tap.
Great vid! Isn’t there a rule against Fist of the Heavens On pally? I forget, it’s been a while.
Not to my knowledge! A lot of hybrid pally builds mix it into their skill set. Very effective.
Type of vidéo i like ty
As a druid, can I use mobs to charge up Feral Rage?
Idk about limiting my res or sorb…I don’t have a full inv of 3/20/20 skill 40 lifers or nigma or perf Annis or torch’s my opponent may have them but I need to go easy on my res for sportsmanship reasons? Meh…I’ve sorbed damage since it became a thing what happened on d2x to make this a thing?
Used to have a barb with 37x 175psn / 20lifers, doubble dweb on switch. Was hilarious!
Venom proc from grief didn't do my any favor though.
@@GBEWgw2 8.5k hp and a single hit would anyone :D
Fun build :3
@@GBEWgw2 Im aware its not top tier build. Never claimed it was good, however it WAS fun :)
The fact that you seem to think that is hilarious.
@@GBEWgw2 christ you must be bad at dueling if you have this much pinned up negativity.
Banned skill are BS
Hey! I have some questions, I've seen people talking about itens with charges (you can use the itens although you cant use the charges) some say its BM, but ive seen people using charges on duel. Also, i have a question about life tap on melee vs melee isnt that BM? Or you can use it?
Check those rulesets in the description! In DFC, all of that is allowed. Traditionally, though, it hasn't been
Is the skill animation swap glitch considered BM in duels? (I assume yes)
To clarify, I am talking about the one where you weapon swap and press a skill hotkey within one frame, and end up using the cast animation of the previously selected skill with the effect of the hotkeyed skill.
*Swapcast* is actually _not_ BM in duels, it's just extremely hard to pull off when you have a player attacking you. Good question!
Why is slow missiles BM? I don't understand
Hog as FUG video!
Thanks, Bruh?
No absorb means no dr. Lol. Same with slow. My pally is a hammer another charger with no maxed offensive aura but uses everyy aura to beat every single build. Sorb all the elements. Block all the damage. And destroy everyone
Played TONS of D2 PvM, never liked PVP, so this video was very interesting for me. I don't get the "absorb" and "resistance" thing. You want to stack up defence, so that you get less damage but you don't stack your res with absorb? And how about skills that have that, like Cyclone from the druid or Bone Shield of the necro for dmg? Are those banned too?
the rules are there to give everyone a fighting chance. without limiting res/sorb stacking, there'd be no point to making a pvp sorc/trapsin because with enough stacking, you can completely nullify all their attacks.
@@JBlNN this is the most participation trophy thing I'ver ever heard... lol so you cant beat someone because you classed your char out. as a fire sorc. congrats them on being good against fire sorcs and come up with a strategy or new char to combat those people. your fire sorc will own many other types of chars that are gear out weak to you or just not specifically gear to combat fire. congrats! those are your wins. I will make multiple chars classed and geared out to do VERY specific things and they end up being VERY weak to others. I say congrats and find out if they would like to duel another one of my chars that I normally have specifically geared out to combat their fighting style/class. and I've been beat on those because they are just skilled players. I think the biggest BM he forgot to mention was whining because your char cant beat EVER other type of char.
Mana pots were BM for a very long time. A stacked ES sorc with 10k mana and a belt full of super mana pots was basically unkillable by casters (Poison obv sucked but yea)
@@GBEWgw2 Meh we always played empty belt duels. Seemed the fairest way to go. Actually penalize that Barb for only having 150 mana and only being able to WW 5 times lol made things much more interesting.
double white rings it is!
I remember stacking dragon for a friend, good times
Those aura paladins were boss back in the day.
Haven't played softcore in 15 years or so. Checking this video to see if I should roll SC in D2R so I can duel. Honestly my impression after watching this video is that dueling seems like it would never become more than an incredibly small niche community. The rules seem way too complicated and extensive.
The only way I can see it really taking off would be if Blizzard adds some arena feature that had a bunch of rules built in. So that you couldn't break the rules by ignorance. Some items/skills banned, ok button, instructions etc. Another thing which I guess seems like it would be problematic with dueling is the economy. I have played a lot of D2 but almost never traded. Reason is I don't find it fun to use items that possibly have been botted or duped. So if you are that kind of player who want to play "legit" I don't see how you wouldn't be at a disadvantage so massive that it would be impossible to have much of a chance. Guess I will probably stay in HC.
Yeah, a lot of these rules seem kind of weird and overwhelming to a player trying to get into dueling. Especially when it's things like "you can't have too high resistances/absorbs, you can't slow IAS based builds, you can't use slow missiles (and if you do, you're not allowed to take pride in the win." Like I can understand some limitations, but it's a little confusing to me that trying to use game mechanics to negate your opponent's advantages or exploit their weaknesses is "bad manners."
Sure not mana potting on a es sorc. Might as well let everyone use health pots too while your at it.
So plague javelin is good manners? Nice
I don't understand the part where you shouldn't slow your opponent but I've seen people using clay golem which slows... Also some items have slow so what should I remove them?
I don’t get that either like I can’t use my weapon because opponent is melee.
woah. well all fine beside absorb and overly defensive rules, I remember 08/09 duels played a lot around this and maxing res.
slow missile... well guess was forbidden since ever, while maiden was absolutely legit and most common way to kill as necro enemy barbarians.
i also really don't appreciate banning hole freeze auras, only because some classes sucks vs it. thats a bad world out there, thats why hybrid builds were favoured.
also the poison damage capped... i feel dueling changed much ;p
my auradin had cleansing on some higher lvl for that
About the poison part: You said the only restriction on psn is amount of 451 scs, but psn nova necs are considered BM. Also, decrepify (regardless of actual rules) people whine about like hell. Same goes with Lower Resist. Pretty much if you play necro, get ready for whiners and get ready to discard half your spells.
I think you're mixing up some rules from *Team Duels* where Poison Nova and Lower Res are BM. But you're right about whiners... Although we never let those people stop us from building fun chars :P
Decrepify has such a small radius skill to cast even with skill boosted items that it's very hard to just land the curse on desynched paladins and whatnot. Almost never see Decrepify on Necro players because standing still if you're not FHR locking with spear is instant death.
i never liked d2jsp. I always thought it trivialized the point of ladder resets. and it seems like I remember back in .09 that domain name was being used to house forums for the meph bot, and it was linked officially by blizzhackers dot com which housed the forums for most other scripts/bots. oh and btw, potions were totally fine for dueling in hardcore mode, everyone used them. As a matter of fact, people who dueled often liked to stock up on LOTS of full rejuvs. Nobody had issue with people using them lol understandably. "keep it legit" was definitely a thing though...everyone had the MH that allowed you to see each other's inventory, so people would know anyways. most of these other things weren't really a thing. I've NEVER heard of that poison dmg limit. It was generally considered cheesy to have poison damage on AMAZONS, as there were a LOT of people doing it on softcore mode...but that's it. There were no rules against it, it was just cheesy. Gosupvp had their own rules about it, and I remember them telling me you couldn't have ANY poison damage, and it only really applied to amazons AFAIK.. I mean, I only dueled with Gosupvp on an amazon anyways. When 1.1 rolled around though, all limits of poison damage seemed to be nonexistant...I mean there were no more poison damage zons anymore, and in fact it seemed like there were strategies around open wounds when I came back to softcore mode for a little while. Btw, the slow item that's considered BM is Cleglaw's lol... and it's only considered BM on amazons understandably. WF/Knockback is also considered BM in Gosupvp, generally if you wanted to duel with an amazon and not be considered BM, you'd have to roll one of those 3 open socket cruel Matriarch bows of quickness with chipped gems. I mean, I guess Faith is fine these days, but in 1.09 the only good pvp bow that was "GM" as you call it, was a cruel matriarch of quickness with 3 open sockets(can't make em anymore for some reason). I never really got into dueling in 1.1. I got that out of my system in 1.09. I can't imagine what it's like these days...back in teh day good rare amulets with teleport charges were considered godly and people VERY RARELY had them. Enigma just makes me shudder. Probably a mad house.
I never understood why they removed cruels, I remember some pretty filthy cruel 6 soc CB with 3x 30/15s & 3x ohms. I would make a barb work to pvp with a decent cruel again..
@@Jjvblack88 they didn't remove cruels.. the affix still exists.. they removed the cube recipe that rolled magic weapons with 3 open sockets. I don't remember any 6os cruels.. i don't remember those being a thing. there were ethereal cruels though that you could reroll socket quest on until you got 2 open sockets... i had an ethereal cruel scissors suwayyah of evisceration with 2 open sockets on hardcore mode. Probably one of the best items I ever had. Thing about the ethereal versions is that you could only get them as drops from monsters.. and you'd have to check each individual one... would help if you had the MH that showed you if it was ethereal... but still.. crazy. why they are so rare.
@@aBanabis you are correct, I was confusing ith's. Same era and equally-ish as strong back in the day. Iths, cruels, white rings, hex charms seems like more was possible back then with pvp..
@@Jjvblack88 I remember white rings were only a thing on USWest. There was a short time where USEast was down for a few days for some reason, so I went over to West and got rich super fast because of Oculus rings being so ridiculously cheap. So overpowered, yet they were basically throw away items. lol
@@aBanabis fuck I forgot about occy rings.
This must be a pc thing cuz the first and only rule of console pvp is there are no rules
Decrep is only allowed if the person you're dueling has teleport.
HC rules could be added
also when people dueled amazon vs amazon even in high tier gosupvp, they dueled a great distance from each other... they normally wouldn't see each other the entire time, you'd have to aim guided missiles at their X on the map... multishot was fine too... idk why u think it's BM lol.... you didn't just say go and start shooting arrows directly at each other like it was a stat check. i mean it's no fun that way, especially when there are clear differences in power.
Is there an updated version of the rules? Because the blizzard sorc is S tier on pvp but is bad mannered to counter them with cold absorb? Lol
hahaha my bowzon pvp character back in the day used to fuck shit up with slow missle LOL
Havent played d2 since 1.10. Do naked characters still pop is they continue to be killed trying to get their body?
Nice video!
You forgot about prison,its bm vs non tele chars atleast here in Europe where i play
Is on East, too. It almost made the list, but I had to draw the line somewhere and hit the "big" ones. Glad you liked, man!
I made a pretty decent poison necro back in 2010. 40% of the time i would kill my opponent only to find them chugging antiodote potions to beat me.
It's crazy the things some people resort to when they can't win haha
thats me nailed it
I never used potions in dueling. But i hate when i duel and theres some full rejuvs in the belt, and i die. Those always get taken.
Yes! haha People seem to hate on others having those even if you don't use 'em.
If I can’t use frozen or slower the shots, than don’t use enigma or other expensive shit. Not every one is rich. Do it equal than instead instant win every-time. If you don’t like all skills there is, than don’t duel.
I don't mind anything that comes from legit spells or weapons. Don't nk, don't pot, say go are my big ones.
You forgotten another bm.. spamming the front entrance.
Kinda the same thing as not saying Go and waiting for opponent to say Go, right? ;)