In between banner scalings, warcries always affecting allies, champion now able to share fortification (or go all in on taunt which also has some nice effects for allies), and the extra reservation cluster on the bottom side of the tree, it seems like a new form of supporter can be played. While being less able to reserve and thus stack auras than a scion (if your party is big enough, someone else can cover that), you invest in warcry piano speed to stack valour very quickly (and also share some nice effects to allies, power covered by Red blade banner), and place some massive effect multiplied banners. You can wear perfidy as well, so if you're quick enough (or take more duration on banners), you can have all three banners active at the same time for a non-trivial amount of time. Alternatively, you can reserve the warcries with autoexertion, but they lose the buff effects in favor of no longer having to wear redblade banner. Why would you do so? So that you don't suffer from RSI in record speed 💀
ehm, are you sure about that scaling? I would thought that it would be scaling way differently. Dunno, but that math of yours feel kinda wrong. As far as I know, the more you invest into something such as damage, it gives you less than stated, due to dissipating effects, I would say its the same with these, no?
You about to be downvoted by people who can’t click more than one button in POE 😂 In all seriousness I prefer this to having totems give the boost because whether in real life or fiction, banners have always played a crucial role in boosting morale, signifying unity, and representing identity. They are powerful symbols that evoke a sense of pride and belonging, making them an enduring element in human history and storytelling.
Conditional defenses = no good. Conditional spell suppress feels like it's just asking for a bad time, and conditional block just seems pointless--you need block vs. all the incidental hits in maps--most endgame bosses do damage in the form of spells. That leaves war banner which...seems excellent when fully invested.
Pretty much, the time when the defenses will be useful is with Perfidy for permanent uptime, but War banner is absolutely very strong, carry on melee builds, drop against tanky targets
@@Tots214unless you have spell suppression is lucky, not having capped suppressed can be sketchy against things you really want suppression consistently. Eg. Shaper Balls, or spell hits with a lot of penetration. Suppression is a stat you want to cap or have near 100% chance.
Yes but you can use both when you DONT have any or little block or spell suppression. Specially with Not endgame characters. For dual wielding builds, getting +24% block and life on block can be huge during hard encounters (like Ritual, Blight boss, etc). It still requires a lot of points to get Max Block. Also, this banner +Versatile Combatant can be an option for having permanent high attack block and sometimes having a bit of spell block Getting suppression is not as mandatory as before for builds in the down left side of the tree thanks to endurance charges and more maximum elemental resistances. But it is possible to get "some" spell suppresion and the Lucky mastery. Then you can can your spell suppresion during boss fights that benefit from it like the Shaper.
As soon as I saw the size of these buffs I assumed they would be great for most boss arenas. I've never enjoyed making a first character of the league as melee, but definitely eager to have one as a 2nd character this go around.
they also work with generosity, to giga buff minions, but... you can aslo abuse them with hands of phrecia to get turbo boosted auras for both you and the minions(which i learned from your video on it lol)
Banners are strong. Rage is strong. Tinctures are strong. Impale is strong. Warcries are strong. But the main problem (or "challenge") is that we are spread thinner with our points this league, between mana cost reduction and all the new "spread" powerful mechanics. I have NO doubt that this is a buff, but it might take some time for people to find the middle road between all of these mechanics. But hey, choices are good.
One extra thing i noticed. Champion all the banner aura effect you mentioned and also with inspirational notable and the aura cluster near templar can take versatile combatant keystone and get around 65attack and 60 spell block. Pretty bonkers. Especially if you steap that glad lucky block node with flesh and flame.
just interested in them as a replacement for totems on map bosses. probably worth investing in +8% mastery and using it on boss and league mechanic. Might also work well in delve.
To be fair avatar of the wild makes berserk look like a puppy. 80% more dmg and 100% chance to shock, freeze and ignite is just insanity. In the earlier stage of the game you will need 6 to 7 seconds to fully charge it in boss fights. Later on it will be avaible every 5s for 10s. I wouldn't be surprised if that gets nerfed in 3.26 already. As it stands now, warden provides roughly 4x the dmg of current deadeye for elemental builds. That's madness.
There's so much to play around with now. Trying to figure out just the right amount of war cry, rage, banner, or impale investment for your builds is going to be pretty interesting, and hopefully means we'll see many different melee builds now. I'm hoping the gold cost to respec is reasonable while leveling so my second character can experiment quite a bit during the campaign. One thing that really interests me is having ways to scale my damage higher without investing into crit now. Defiance banner makes Lucky Suppress a bit more appealing since you can map with uncapped Lucky Suppress, then use the banner to cap during bosses or strong rares whiel also making your suppress stronger. The large Life on Block from Dread banner might make Glancing Blow builds feel better, and since it doesn't require blocking with a shield, you can make use of it with a staff too.
All good points. I am totally overwhelmed trying to choose things, let alone decide upon a league starter, but that is a good thing in the end. Like you mentioned, as an SSF player, I am particularly hoping that the gold cost to respec passives is generous early on.
well only issue is that every point spend on something is a large sacrificed opportunity lost elswhere. most good builds now are really tailored into max effect, and especially for hc the amount of offencive points are very limited for damage. only way i can see this be worth is if you can make this perm always reliable buff, as you mention. meaning you kind of need that chest armor to be able to perm drop it every time you move a screen forward. A question here: does the champions 30% of valour gained when leaving the area scale by banner valour % on the tree?
@@dalimillazan2877 Don't get me wrong, at the start of the league I'm going to take the biggest stick I can find and swing it until my wrist falls off. Its just can't help but notice how some of the nodes interact with each other in interesting ways
I mostly play spells and minions so dont have much experience with melee. You simply scale with levels and weapons that buff your high base damage.. but melee? You use weapons that have terrible base damage, your weapons dont give you any increases to damage beside the base damage and there seems to be so few ways to scale melee. Am I noob or there is actualy just a few ways to play melee? It seems like you have to be: strenght stacking, int stacking, dext stacking, accuracy stacking, armour aura stacking, base phys stacking with voidforge..... There is literaly about 10 ways to scale melee and if you dont, your damage is trash. I tried building melee in pob and when I got to 1 mil without any scaling, pretty pathetic. Last league I had over 1 milion with ice nova of frostbolts elementalist with 1c unique before even finishing campain.... Anyway in pob I did get decent damage with dominating blow of inspiration though. The gem is about 50% power of normal gem, but scales about 3 times faster with increased damage and you can get increased damage easier. Each jewel can give you up to 20% minion damage + attack speed. Also minion rings work on you and can give you way more damage and attack speed than regular melee scaling. I picked guardian for the 3 auras for high base damage. Even though it was pretty good, I still just got just few milions in endgame setup. Then I tried to put together skeleton archer necromancer with poison and wither and got about double the damage, while being safer. So, is it just me, or even after 2-3x damage buffs, melee is in disadvantage? How do you scale melee?
The banner explode node + Perfidy + Defiance Banner + Lingering Banner effect seems like an insane clear speed combo especially with Charged Dash's quality. You can reach "Illusion moves at 200% of your movement speed" on Charged Dash which would make this effect 288%. You would have no damage, though, but at least you would be fast.
war banner is what ancestral totem should be,got decent duration you only need to drop it on bosses once,get that super buff finish the boss,but pretty sure they gonna nerf it in 3.26.
Did i get that right? You don't need a shield or something similiar with block chance to be able to block when using dread banner? So i can use it with a 2 handed mace for example?
How much increased non-curse aura effect is actually reasonable to obtain on a melee build? What about a banner build? At least 57% for banners, and at least 87% for banners on champions. War banner + maim + more duration + increased AOE support with the banner maim mastery and the banner inc damage mastery is going to apply 8% inc damage taken to enemies, then the maim will cause the same enemies to take another 20% increased physical damage. Then, at 105 valor, you deal 46% more physical damage with melee attacks while in the banner area, which is already huge at 105 valor but would be 1.6x an area with 21/20 incAOE supporting the banner. The 46% more is scaled by increased non-curse aura effect, and could become rather absurd. As mentioned in the video, it goes up to 72% with 57% aura effect, but with this level of investment in banners, you are likely to play a champion who would have *at least* 87%, giving you 86% more melee physical damage with attacks. Even with Perfidy and the 3s linger mastery, To keep up with 105 valor you’d need to spam some warcries. Hooray for autoexertion general’s cry and whatever else you want to press manually. As long as you warcry 10x before the banner duration falls off, you’re ready to go drop a new banner. If you are champ and you drop a 105 valor banner, when you exit you get 31 valor back. So you need 74 valor, which would be 7 warcries and some melee kills or hits on big baddies. 7 warcries on warcry piano is pretty damn fast. Overall, when taken to the extreme, the banner man playstyle needs to heavily incorporate warcries and results in an extremely button intensive playstyle that yields higher numbers than most people’s napkin math could see at first glance. It looks amazing and terrible at the same time.
Hang on, you seem to be assuming increased aura effect from the skill tree is multiplicative with the aura effect from the consumed valour. Are we sure that’s correct? Because that makes a huge difference in overestimating the impact.
That's just how more/increased works in the game, it's nothing to do with banners, they put more aura effect on the banners instead of increased aura effect for a reason, so you could invest into scaling it
Okay, so if your build isnt a 1 morbillion mirror, you can snapshot a high damage bleed to cover the downtime of a banner with a high amount of valor until your bleed runs out and you need to summon the banner again and reapply ypur dot?
Now the real question, does "When you warcry" count Autoexertion supported Warcries? With increased valour gain and 3 or 4 warcries going off you could have some really good uptime.
I might be overthinking this but, when it comes to banners, they do affect allies and if they do I could really see that benefit of Health on block being really useful for keeping minions up
Just remember you have to be doing melee combat. Skills like dominating blow will be able to make use of this, but not animate weapon or SRS type builds
@@_ByteBlaze_ That is true but it only matters if the melee is the thing that gets the kill, even then that's a large margin to play with. True dominating blow is one of the easier ways to do it but it's not the only way to do it and in fact there are many minion builds that do use melee attacks .
@@fireballloadout I mean, if they implement it as "when you kill with a melee skill" that is kind of lame, because then people will just use shield charge and culling strike + Speaker's Wreath, but I suppose that is a special kind of investment
From the patch note they write "Banners also Maim Enemies" and "Banners also cause Enemies to take 8% increased Damage" so i believe these general for all banners
@Dreamcore - we've not seen a lot of details for Retaliation skills. But I'm *very* keen to see The Surrender level 30 version of Crushing Fist. I expect preposterous damage on that.
Auto-exerting three-war cries on something like earthquake and all of the banner nodes seems really powerful. And then some of the notables, like the exploding ones feel like it would actually make clearing super dense maps pretty fun. But any sort of mapping seems like it would require Perfidy in order to be smooth or enjoyable. I wish that stat wasn't exclusive to the unique.
It's not the 'I can't do more buttons' or the temporary and not 'up all the time' that drive me away from Banners. It's the fact that they make u stand in a circle. People actually don't have issue with pressing more buttons. Divine Blessing with Grace for Armour Stackers and Malevolence for DoT builds are prime examples.
one thing that is unfortunate is that Banner doesn't work like Sigil of Power where we can run in and out for the duration of the skill. it would be much more convenient in many situations
I really want to know if the 100% increase valour gained works with the 30% refund on champion. Either way, the 10/Warcry is already enough for this to be "Usable."
Good Video. I think the Champion was low key buff because of the changes to the game Banners and Flesh and stone are going to be huge with the Champions 30% increased aura effect.
Do you think valour gained will work with one of the duelists ascendancies that say somethin near the lines of you get 30% valour back whenever u reacquire it?
If the reservation node duration works too you can get that thing up to something silly like 50 seconds with more duration gems. Still a strange thing that they don't have any reason to level them past 19-20 past one point of hp block, you have to get them to 23 for a single point of added effect, if you can do that then of course do it... you can scale it absurdly with things like a crest of desire... I wonder if it snapshots... two cold iron points in a weapon swap.. crest with a +4 corruption and an ashes.... a lot of investment sure, but a level 40 banner if it does snapshot the cold irons... that lasts practically forever.... and warcries to get it maxed before a major fight.
My main build got hit hard by this, those increased damage taken were really important for phys minions. I think the buff from war banner is pretty crazy now, especially with investment, however I'm not a fan of the conditional and occasional nature of it all.
I'm using dread banner to cap clock when I need on my evasion based viper strike of the mamba league start. Also, for the looks of it, vaal breach will cost a liver next league.
there's a lot of problems with banner exp; if you want to block why invest in banner when u can just invest in permanent block? same for suppress and damage
So with war banner do I not gain more melee damage or accuracy until the banner is placed? Is the aura what makes you have that increase in damage and accuracy?
Well banner can be a viable option for all the content of only one scenery like Uber bosses or simulacrum where you could maybe have a more stable uptime with the banner
The question is: Would you rather invest 12 points to have +40% more melee damage when you place banner? Or would you rather invest 12 points into skill tree, giving you on average 2% more damage per point= 24% more damage unconditionaly? Mods like less aura effect would also reduce power of banners significantly, so why dont put points into something that works regardless of map mods like increased damage, attack speed or defences? The banners are still probably worth the gem slot even if you are socket starved. It does make sense to scale banner effect through aura effect instead as it also scales your auras. To invest into theese trees, they would have to give even more power. 60% more damage for 12 points when you place banner might be enough. That would be about 6% more damage per point conditionaly. In many builds I can get 2.5-3% more damage per point, so asking for 5-6% on few strong enemies isnt that much of a stretch.
Block banner is awesome for 2H characters. Suppression banner is awesome for left side characters. But the damage banner is definitely the best of the three.
surprised the charges notable didnt get talked about, if you dont increase valour to 105, and keep it at 50, it's pretty reasonable for champion, without perfidy, to maintain 100% uptime on a banner at 50 valour between warcries, the 3s linger, and champion refund, having 100% uptime on endurance charges and spell suppression, eleresist and frenzy charges seems quite good. Banner + less duration means that you can get banners to only last on the ground for the duration of your warcry CDs, and then it wears off, you pop warcries during linger effect to get back to full valour and then drop another 50 valour banner, refreshing your charges and defensive buffs. Pretty sure you could maneuver the cooldowns in such a way with tattoos to even fully automate the whole thing between automation support on banner and autoexert on warcries. if slam exerting at least.
I hadn't thought about this but it seems like quite an awkward playstyle, warcry piano on steriods, but it will be quite strong regardless. Unless you also gain spent valour when a banner ends while you're in the area, I don't think champion is necessary for the less duration setup, as the wording only implies you gain the valour back when leaving the area(ie. ending it early) but it may work, would need to test it when the patch hits
@@dreamcore_gg Im sure there is an exact cooldown reduction and level of less duration gem you could use to hit equalibrium for using a fully automated setup or a setup you only need to push banner button. but thats a level of fiddling i'd need to do in game bc its not my strongsuit.
The problem is all of these bonuses and investment are tied to a limited buff you need to wind up [and if you go to 105 valour it takes longer! Uptime is worse] and it's a lot of tree investment for it.
Im going to make an attempt at a bot comment: "your vids are so enlightening and bring so much joy to your viewers, thank you for saving the world and curing all diseases" Real talk, love your channel bro 😂❤
I wish they retain Dread Banner's Impale gimmick oh yeah and since Banners are no longer reserve mana/life, you can jam support gems with it for more bonus stats like AOE Support and Increase Duration Support
I wish banners were less like totems and more like you carrying the banner into battle. So instead of placing the banner down like theyre new totems, it just being a button you push that throws up the banner on your back - a good visual indicator on your character (I love buff visuals on your character, like flasks or the new retaliation skills!), rather than having to pay attention to the often times crowded buff bar. That way you wouldn’t have to worry about being within it’s aoe and with duration, the buff would feel like a mix between a guard skill and an additional flask (depending on which one it was). I don’t particularly like the defensive side if these though. I could see these types of defensives working better in PoE2, but in PoE having conditional spell suppress or block just seems like a recipe for disaster. Though for bossing, with generally more telegraphed attacks, I could see people using them.. on softcore 😅. I’ll definitely be using war banner though!
I actually thought they're bad because they get destroyed if you leave the area and I assumed the area is smaller since I never placed banners before. But the area looks reasonable.
@1:34 I dont get it..whats the point of movement speed if the buff will disappear when moving out of the banner's radius? GGG has so many bad balancing these days..
Everybody in the comments talking about using them with minions... but are you getting melee kills to get valour on your minion build? I really doubt you gain valour from your minon's melee kills.
@@dreamcore_ggDid you mention it in this video? It feels like this mastery alone makes banners much more usable in maps since you aren't locked into a position to fight in. Especisly powerful for the movementspeed bonus.
I think if heavy investmetn banner builds exist they will be pretty specialized... I dont see banners on bosses because even if you gain valor during banner uptime ... there is not much valor to be gained. I can maybe see specialized simulacrum farmers or maybe delve or blight ... but then again you dont need a special build to farm blight you can do that naked. Maybe there is some kind of sweetspot where using a banner in a "normal" build can be worth it but I think pulling these huge modifiers out of them costs too much on the tree.
I've added War Banner to my warcry slammer and with only 5 points invested specifically for the banners I'm looking at ~36% more melee damage for ~22 seconds. Even uninvested 24% for 15 seconds (assuming no passives and linked with More Duration) is pretty solid for only 2 sockets. I have to admit that the 5 valour per warcry on my 6 warcry build (3 manual, 3 auto) is doing the heavy lifting for me, especially against bosses where you won't be gaining from kills. Non-warcry builds will have to spend 25 seconds consistently hitting the boss to hit 50 Valour, or 26 seconds to hit 105 Valour with all the generation investment on the tree. Perfidy potentially allows for 100% uptime, which is nice, but it's a lot of passives and your body slot so probably not worth going ALL IN on Banners for solo play. Now, if you are BANNERMAN in a party... I mean... significantly overcapping spell suppress for the whole team is pretty insane and so is that massive block + LGOH.
War banner is the only banner worth using IMO and it's only good for phys melee builds or giga accuracy stackers - Builds are already extremely point starved there is just no way to justify investing into more banner stuff imo. Is it really worth putting 4 points into rallying icon + mastery? You can very likely spend 4 points for a similar or slightly smaller amount of damage all of the time rather than just in a banner window. Just take the nice phys damage amp when you drop war banner on map bosses/tanky rares ect on builds for 1 gem. The rate of valor gain for bossing makes them mostly irrelevant there unless you do some warcry stuff, but then you are also investing into that and I will state the same argument as above. Unfortunately I don't think the banner rework turned out quite what I think GGG was expecting, and as a player I much prefer they either left them how they were or just straight up deleted them. They were still extremely powerful to drop before (even though the vast majority of players didn't do that). Every other melee archetype (ele, bleed, poison, ect.) also got left by the wayside with these changes. This not a slight at you or your videos by the way, the content is great, but I don't think this iteration of banners is and your deep dive into them kind of proves that I think :)
The chest piece is nice but with the changes coming to body armor you’ll be sacrificing a whole a lot of stats for some extra damage. Doesn’t seem worth
New totems lol Seriously though, they are much better than existing totems and optional as well. Way better to use and make more sense for melee playstyle than totems. That unique armor though needs buffs as well as Champion's node and note on the passive skill tree that provides +elemental res. They are a bit weak for banners.
nobody likes conditional effects and investing passive points into them has hidesous opportunity cost. The Suppress banner is pretty cool not gonna lie but i am not investing 20 points into it. Thats 2 full clusters.
Nice analysis but it seems like that's a lot of investment for something that won't have much uptime, unless you build around it like say on champion. The playstyle of planting banners every pack of monsters seems kind meh too.
i just dont like the conditional defensive on banner,unless they give you like free time to do more dps tho i dont think GGG will let the banner do this
They could have buffed champ by allowing them to use a banner with like 10 valour as an aura for free tbh, and have a constant field around them kind of like the Blasphemy support. Also grant them the ability to use an additional banner on top of that.
Rip, welp there goes my plan. Losing the 8% increased damage taken breaks the skill for me. 😢 It's not enough damage/protection for the amount of investment you have to put in and up time.
Testing dominating blow champ without totems as is to see if its viable for leveling. It is, already in 3.24. Respec may be a bit expensive (10+) but the typical path is now littered with warcry and banner skills. Herald of purity would work well since warcries and banner dont have reservation.
I think that banners seem clunky and very specific. Melee kill? Bleed builds won't get valour except from warcry. They are far better than our old totems, and they do have some great effects. I have 2 builds ready. One immortal build that takes 0 damage from Uber memory game, with enough damage to reach DoT cap. And one fast clear build with 130 million dps. I did not utilize banners in either. But they are both melee builds, so I could if I wanted to. I am trying to find a great starter build. 😅 Sure my 130 mil dps can be a starter build. I just want something solid.
I can't stand piano keying so I am probably going to avoid crys lol. Banners might be different though because it's basically place once in a fight and forget.
great video, seems the chest piece will be a nice unique to use while farming ultimatums/tituals/expedition which are all kind of "stand in the circle" type of content
BANNERMAN
GARFMAN
In between banner scalings, warcries always affecting allies, champion now able to share fortification (or go all in on taunt which also has some nice effects for allies), and the extra reservation cluster on the bottom side of the tree, it seems like a new form of supporter can be played. While being less able to reserve and thus stack auras than a scion (if your party is big enough, someone else can cover that), you invest in warcry piano speed to stack valour very quickly (and also share some nice effects to allies, power covered by Red blade banner), and place some massive effect multiplied banners. You can wear perfidy as well, so if you're quick enough (or take more duration on banners), you can have all three banners active at the same time for a non-trivial amount of time. Alternatively, you can reserve the warcries with autoexertion, but they lose the buff effects in favor of no longer having to wear redblade banner. Why would you do so? So that you don't suffer from RSI in record speed 💀
There is also a reservation mastery for 50% increased duration of non-curse aura's which is a huge chunk of duration for a single point.
@@alexsterling5788 Great point 👍
ehm, are you sure about that scaling? I would thought that it would be scaling way differently. Dunno, but that math of yours feel kinda wrong. As far as I know, the more you invest into something such as damage, it gives you less than stated, due to dissipating effects, I would say its the same with these, no?
love the tone of your videos, man. informative, straight to the point, no over hyping. and valuable information
No over hyping? "New banner scaling is INSANE"
@@The_Rampart Them just be facts
Been loving some of the intros lately
ditto
bro, how did Tujen make it on the moon!? 😂❤
the explode notable could be good for something like blight where a lot of enemies are bunched up together.
You about to be downvoted by people who can’t click more than one button in POE 😂
In all seriousness I prefer this to having totems give the boost because whether in real life or fiction, banners have always played a crucial role in boosting morale, signifying unity, and representing identity. They are powerful symbols that evoke a sense of pride and belonging, making them an enduring element in human history and storytelling.
thats me
such a well thought out and great comment
@@blrrich1051 ikr. It just resonates with you.
the videos for this pre seasons are pure gold this channel have gone above and beyond this time
Conditional defenses = no good. Conditional spell suppress feels like it's just asking for a bad time, and conditional block just seems pointless--you need block vs. all the incidental hits in maps--most endgame bosses do damage in the form of spells.
That leaves war banner which...seems excellent when fully invested.
Pretty much, the time when the defenses will be useful is with Perfidy for permanent uptime, but War banner is absolutely very strong, carry on melee builds, drop against tanky targets
For somebody who didn’t invest any spell suppress wouldn’t it be very good?
@@Tots214unless you have spell suppression is lucky, not having capped suppressed can be sketchy against things you really want suppression consistently. Eg. Shaper Balls, or spell hits with a lot of penetration.
Suppression is a stat you want to cap or have near 100% chance.
@@Tots214 It could certainly be useful in some situations yes
Yes but you can use both when you DONT have any or little block or spell suppression. Specially with Not endgame characters.
For dual wielding builds, getting +24% block and life on block can be huge during hard encounters (like Ritual, Blight boss, etc). It still requires a lot of points to get Max Block. Also, this banner +Versatile Combatant can be an option for having permanent high attack block and sometimes having a bit of spell block
Getting suppression is not as mandatory as before for builds in the down left side of the tree thanks to endurance charges and more maximum elemental resistances. But it is possible to get "some" spell suppresion and the Lucky mastery. Then you can can your spell suppresion during boss fights that benefit from it like the Shaper.
Love the new intros!
As soon as I saw the size of these buffs I assumed they would be great for most boss arenas. I've never enjoyed making a first character of the league as melee, but definitely eager to have one as a 2nd character this go around.
they also work with generosity, to giga buff minions, but...
you can aslo abuse them with hands of phrecia to get turbo boosted auras for both you and the minions(which i learned from your video on it lol)
"Fixed a bug where the Hand of Phrecia Unique Gloves applied Auras to players using Generosity Support."
@@Unhazed that u die if ur linked minion dies is so fucking dumb.
Banners are strong. Rage is strong. Tinctures are strong. Impale is strong. Warcries are strong. But the main problem (or "challenge") is that we are spread thinner with our points this league, between mana cost reduction and all the new "spread" powerful mechanics. I have NO doubt that this is a buff, but it might take some time for people to find the middle road between all of these mechanics. But hey, choices are good.
One extra thing i noticed. Champion all the banner aura effect you mentioned and also with inspirational notable and the aura cluster near templar can take versatile combatant keystone and get around 65attack and 60 spell block. Pretty bonkers. Especially if you steap that glad lucky block node with flesh and flame.
Your channel is greatness!
just interested in them as a replacement for totems on map bosses. probably worth investing in +8% mastery and using it on boss and league mechanic. Might also work well in delve.
Both Banners and the Warden's Avatar of the Wild seem to be going in the direction of "Berserk at home"
To be fair avatar of the wild makes berserk look like a puppy. 80% more dmg and 100% chance to shock, freeze and ignite is just insanity. In the earlier stage of the game you will need 6 to 7 seconds to fully charge it in boss fights. Later on it will be avaible every 5s for 10s. I wouldn't be surprised if that gets nerfed in 3.26 already. As it stands now, warden provides roughly 4x the dmg of current deadeye for elemental builds. That's madness.
There's so much to play around with now. Trying to figure out just the right amount of war cry, rage, banner, or impale investment for your builds is going to be pretty interesting, and hopefully means we'll see many different melee builds now. I'm hoping the gold cost to respec is reasonable while leveling so my second character can experiment quite a bit during the campaign.
One thing that really interests me is having ways to scale my damage higher without investing into crit now.
Defiance banner makes Lucky Suppress a bit more appealing since you can map with uncapped Lucky Suppress, then use the banner to cap during bosses or strong rares whiel also making your suppress stronger.
The large Life on Block from Dread banner might make Glancing Blow builds feel better, and since it doesn't require blocking with a shield, you can make use of it with a staff too.
All good points. I am totally overwhelmed trying to choose things, let alone decide upon a league starter, but that is a good thing in the end. Like you mentioned, as an SSF player, I am particularly hoping that the gold cost to respec passives is generous early on.
@@e56hdyhdfgh Regrets are also still in. So we can use gold at low levels and regrets later, hopefully.
well only issue is that every point spend on something is a large sacrificed opportunity lost elswhere. most good builds now are really tailored into max effect, and especially for hc the amount of offencive points are very limited for damage. only way i can see this be worth is if you can make this perm always reliable buff, as you mention. meaning you kind of need that chest armor to be able to perm drop it every time you move a screen forward. A question here: does the champions 30% of valour gained when leaving the area scale by banner valour % on the tree?
It looks like with the reworking of the cry and banners, there is an interesting option to play minions
Oh no, they finally buffed melee after more than 5 years dude and you think about minions ... :D
@@dalimillazan2877 Don't get me wrong, at the start of the league I'm going to take the biggest stick I can find and swing it until my wrist falls off. Its just can't help but notice how some of the nodes interact with each other in interesting ways
I mostly play spells and minions so dont have much experience with melee. You simply scale with levels and weapons that buff your high base damage.. but melee?
You use weapons that have terrible base damage, your weapons dont give you any increases to damage beside the base damage and there seems to be so few ways to scale melee.
Am I noob or there is actualy just a few ways to play melee?
It seems like you have to be: strenght stacking, int stacking, dext stacking, accuracy stacking, armour aura stacking, base phys stacking with voidforge.....
There is literaly about 10 ways to scale melee and if you dont, your damage is trash.
I tried building melee in pob and when I got to 1 mil without any scaling, pretty pathetic.
Last league I had over 1 milion with ice nova of frostbolts elementalist with 1c unique before even finishing campain.... Anyway in pob I did get decent damage with dominating blow of inspiration though.
The gem is about 50% power of normal gem, but scales about 3 times faster with increased damage and you can get increased damage easier. Each jewel can give you up to 20% minion damage + attack speed. Also minion rings work on you and can give you way more damage and attack speed than regular melee scaling.
I picked guardian for the 3 auras for high base damage.
Even though it was pretty good, I still just got just few milions in endgame setup.
Then I tried to put together skeleton archer necromancer with poison and wither and got about double the damage, while being safer.
So, is it just me, or even after 2-3x damage buffs, melee is in disadvantage?
How do you scale melee?
The banner explode node + Perfidy + Defiance Banner + Lingering Banner effect seems like an insane clear speed combo especially with Charged Dash's quality. You can reach "Illusion moves at 200% of your movement speed" on Charged Dash which would make this effect 288%. You would have no damage, though, but at least you would be fast.
war banner is what ancestral totem should be,got decent duration you only need to drop it on bosses once,get that super buff finish the boss,but pretty sure they gonna nerf it in 3.26.
Did i get that right? You don't need a shield or something similiar with block chance to be able to block when using dread banner? So i can use it with a 2 handed mace for example?
How much increased non-curse aura effect is actually reasonable to obtain on a melee build? What about a banner build? At least 57% for banners, and at least 87% for banners on champions.
War banner + maim + more duration + increased AOE support with the banner maim mastery and the banner inc damage mastery is going to apply 8% inc damage taken to enemies, then the maim will cause the same enemies to take another 20% increased physical damage.
Then, at 105 valor, you deal 46% more physical damage with melee attacks while in the banner area, which is already huge at 105 valor but would be 1.6x an area with 21/20 incAOE supporting the banner. The 46% more is scaled by increased non-curse aura effect, and could become rather absurd. As mentioned in the video, it goes up to 72% with 57% aura effect, but with this level of investment in banners, you are likely to play a champion who would have *at least* 87%, giving you 86% more melee physical damage with attacks.
Even with Perfidy and the 3s linger mastery, To keep up with 105 valor you’d need to spam some warcries. Hooray for autoexertion general’s cry and whatever else you want to press manually. As long as you warcry 10x before the banner duration falls off, you’re ready to go drop a new banner.
If you are champ and you drop a 105 valor banner, when you exit you get 31 valor back. So you need 74 valor, which would be 7 warcries and some melee kills or hits on big baddies. 7 warcries on warcry piano is pretty damn fast.
Overall, when taken to the extreme, the banner man playstyle needs to heavily incorporate warcries and results in an extremely button intensive playstyle that yields higher numbers than most people’s napkin math could see at first glance. It looks amazing and terrible at the same time.
All the videos covering the new league content have been great so far, excited to see more. Please keep em coming
Hang on, you seem to be assuming increased aura effect from the skill tree is multiplicative with the aura effect from the consumed valour. Are we sure that’s correct? Because that makes a huge difference in overestimating the impact.
That's just how more/increased works in the game, it's nothing to do with banners, they put more aura effect on the banners instead of increased aura effect for a reason, so you could invest into scaling it
Okay, so if your build isnt a 1 morbillion mirror, you can snapshot a high damage bleed to cover the downtime of a banner with a high amount of valor until your bleed runs out and you need to summon the banner again and reapply ypur dot?
That intro is mirror tier. Love it.
Now the real question, does "When you warcry" count Autoexertion supported Warcries? With increased valour gain and 3 or 4 warcries going off you could have some really good uptime.
I might be overthinking this but, when it comes to banners, they do affect allies and if they do I could really see that benefit of Health on block being really useful for keeping minions up
Just remember you have to be doing melee combat. Skills like dominating blow will be able to make use of this, but not animate weapon or SRS type builds
@@_ByteBlaze_ That is true but it only matters if the melee is the thing that gets the kill, even then that's a large margin to play with. True dominating blow is one of the easier ways to do it but it's not the only way to do it and in fact there are many minion builds that do use melee attacks
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@@fireballloadout I mean, if they implement it as "when you kill with a melee skill" that is kind of lame, because then people will just use shield charge and culling strike + Speaker's Wreath, but I suppose that is a special kind of investment
From the patch note they write "Banners also Maim Enemies" and "Banners also cause Enemies to take 8% increased Damage" so i believe these general for all banners
@Dreamcore - we've not seen a lot of details for Retaliation skills. But I'm *very* keen to see The Surrender level 30 version of Crushing Fist. I expect preposterous damage on that.
That intro was gold!
Awe and Terror with Penance mark is really interesting.
Auto-exerting three-war cries on something like earthquake and all of the banner nodes seems really powerful. And then some of the notables, like the exploding ones feel like it would actually make clearing super dense maps pretty fun. But any sort of mapping seems like it would require Perfidy in order to be smooth or enjoyable. I wish that stat wasn't exclusive to the unique.
It's not the 'I can't do more buttons' or the temporary and not 'up all the time' that drive me away from Banners. It's the fact that they make u stand in a circle.
People actually don't have issue with pressing more buttons. Divine Blessing with Grace for Armour Stackers and Malevolence for DoT builds are prime examples.
one thing that is unfortunate is that Banner doesn't work like Sigil of Power where we can run in and out for the duration of the skill. it would be much more convenient in many situations
I really want to know if the 100% increase valour gained works with the 30% refund on champion. Either way, the 10/Warcry is already enough for this to be "Usable."
Good Video. I think the Champion was low key buff because of the changes to the game Banners and Flesh and stone are going to be huge with the Champions 30% increased aura effect.
Do you think valour gained will work with one of the duelists ascendancies that say somethin near the lines of you get 30% valour back whenever u reacquire it?
Not sure on this one, need to test when patch hits
If the reservation node duration works too you can get that thing up to something silly like 50 seconds with more duration gems.
Still a strange thing that they don't have any reason to level them past 19-20 past one point of hp block, you have to get them to 23 for a single point of added effect, if you can do that then of course do it... you can scale it absurdly with things like a crest of desire...
I wonder if it snapshots... two cold iron points in a weapon swap.. crest with a +4 corruption and an ashes.... a lot of investment sure, but a level 40 banner if it does snapshot the cold irons... that lasts practically forever.... and warcries to get it maxed before a major fight.
My main build got hit hard by this, those increased damage taken were really important for phys minions.
I think the buff from war banner is pretty crazy now, especially with investment, however I'm not a fan of the conditional and occasional nature of it all.
I'm using dread banner to cap clock when I need on my evasion based viper strike of the mamba league start.
Also, for the looks of it, vaal breach will cost a liver next league.
there's a lot of problems with banner
exp; if you want to block why invest in banner when u can just invest in permanent block?
same for suppress and damage
So with war banner do I not gain more melee damage or accuracy until the banner is placed? Is the aura what makes you have that increase in damage and accuracy?
Yes, no benefits until it's placed, the aura aound the banner provides those buffs
@@dreamcore_gg thank you! Is the aura circle the ani action we see and the radius described in the skill itself?
@@trippy1v349 Yes, if you leave the circle the banner is destroyed
wait can you cast when damage taken banners??
does the new banner empower allies and minions?
Well banner can be a viable option for all the content of only one scenery like Uber bosses or simulacrum where you could maybe have a more stable uptime with the banner
The question is:
Would you rather invest 12 points to have +40% more melee damage when you place banner?
Or would you rather invest 12 points into skill tree, giving you on average 2% more damage per point= 24% more damage unconditionaly?
Mods like less aura effect would also reduce power of banners significantly, so why dont put points into something that works regardless of map mods like increased damage, attack speed or defences?
The banners are still probably worth the gem slot even if you are socket starved.
It does make sense to scale banner effect through aura effect instead as it also scales your auras.
To invest into theese trees, they would have to give even more power. 60% more damage for 12 points when you place banner might be enough. That would be about 6% more damage per point conditionaly. In many builds I can get 2.5-3% more damage per point, so asking for 5-6% on few strong enemies isnt that much of a stretch.
GGG: No more melee support totems.
Also GGG: Anyways, here are melee support banners.
great video. everyone has dismissed the banners as pointless a bit prematurely possibly....
Block banner is awesome for 2H characters. Suppression banner is awesome for left side characters. But the damage banner is definitely the best of the three.
surprised the charges notable didnt get talked about, if you dont increase valour to 105, and keep it at 50, it's pretty reasonable for champion, without perfidy, to maintain 100% uptime on a banner at 50 valour between warcries, the 3s linger, and champion refund, having 100% uptime on endurance charges and spell suppression, eleresist and frenzy charges seems quite good. Banner + less duration means that you can get banners to only last on the ground for the duration of your warcry CDs, and then it wears off, you pop warcries during linger effect to get back to full valour and then drop another 50 valour banner, refreshing your charges and defensive buffs.
Pretty sure you could maneuver the cooldowns in such a way with tattoos to even fully automate the whole thing between automation support on banner and autoexert on warcries. if slam exerting at least.
I hadn't thought about this but it seems like quite an awkward playstyle, warcry piano on steriods, but it will be quite strong regardless. Unless you also gain spent valour when a banner ends while you're in the area, I don't think champion is necessary for the less duration setup, as the wording only implies you gain the valour back when leaving the area(ie. ending it early) but it may work, would need to test it when the patch hits
@@dreamcore_gg Im sure there is an exact cooldown reduction and level of less duration gem you could use to hit equalibrium for using a fully automated setup or a setup you only need to push banner button. but thats a level of fiddling i'd need to do in game bc its not my strongsuit.
The problem is all of these bonuses and investment are tied to a limited buff you need to wind up [and if you go to 105 valour it takes longer! Uptime is worse] and it's a lot of tree investment for it.
Chieftain warcry + banner looks good
Im going to make an attempt at a bot comment: "your vids are so enlightening and bring so much joy to your viewers, thank you for saving the world and curing all diseases"
Real talk, love your channel bro 😂❤
they should make the unique armour just let you gain affects of banner pn your back, the we can get to use that chest.
The intro was awesome lol
I wish they retain Dread Banner's Impale gimmick
oh yeah and since Banners are no longer reserve mana/life, you can jam support gems with it for more bonus stats like AOE Support and Increase Duration Support
Good content, thanks!
Definitely seems strong for bossing but it is a lot of points to invest for situational buffs...
I wish banners were less like totems and more like you carrying the banner into battle. So instead of placing the banner down like theyre new totems, it just being a button you push that throws up the banner on your back - a good visual indicator on your character (I love buff visuals on your character, like flasks or the new retaliation skills!), rather than having to pay attention to the often times crowded buff bar. That way you wouldn’t have to worry about being within it’s aoe and with duration, the buff would feel like a mix between a guard skill and an additional flask (depending on which one it was). I don’t particularly like the defensive side if these though. I could see these types of defensives working better in PoE2, but in PoE having conditional spell suppress or block just seems like a recipe for disaster. Though for bossing, with generally more telegraphed attacks, I could see people using them.. on softcore 😅. I’ll definitely be using war banner though!
Got me with that intro!
Does this make the map mod - "Players have #% reduced effect of Non-Curse Auras from Skills" at high tiers a brick like can't leech?
it'll just be less damage on the boss
That intro was real funny lol ngl
The intro is great xD
accuracy staking banner reaver ?
My only problem with them is I don't fuck with conditional defense. War banner looks pretty good thou
I actually thought they're bad because they get destroyed if you leave the area and I assumed the area is smaller since I never placed banners before.
But the area looks reasonable.
Like deserved just for the intro!
@1:34 I dont get it..whats the point of movement speed if the buff will disappear when moving out of the banner's radius? GGG has so many bad balancing these days..
Super interesting!
So that block could be for 2H melee?
Yes brother its generic block
they souldve added the 20%more attack speed we lost from totem to one of the banners
Everybody in the comments talking about using them with minions... but are you getting melee kills to get valour on your minion build? I really doubt you gain valour from your minon's melee kills.
Wasn't there a something that allows us to keep the buffs of banners even if we leave their aoe? Feels mandatory for banners past the league start.
There's a mastery that allows their effects to linger for 3 seconds
@@dreamcore_ggDid you mention it in this video? It feels like this mastery alone makes banners much more usable in maps since you aren't locked into a position to fight in. Especisly powerful for the movementspeed bonus.
I think if heavy investmetn banner builds exist they will be pretty specialized... I dont see banners on bosses because even if you gain valor during banner uptime ... there is not much valor to be gained. I can maybe see specialized simulacrum farmers or maybe delve or blight ... but then again you dont need a special build to farm blight you can do that naked. Maybe there is some kind of sweetspot where using a banner in a "normal" build can be worth it but I think pulling these huge modifiers out of them costs too much on the tree.
I've added War Banner to my warcry slammer and with only 5 points invested specifically for the banners I'm looking at ~36% more melee damage for ~22 seconds. Even uninvested 24% for 15 seconds (assuming no passives and linked with More Duration) is pretty solid for only 2 sockets.
I have to admit that the 5 valour per warcry on my 6 warcry build (3 manual, 3 auto) is doing the heavy lifting for me, especially against bosses where you won't be gaining from kills. Non-warcry builds will have to spend 25 seconds consistently hitting the boss to hit 50 Valour, or 26 seconds to hit 105 Valour with all the generation investment on the tree.
Perfidy potentially allows for 100% uptime, which is nice, but it's a lot of passives and your body slot so probably not worth going ALL IN on Banners for solo play. Now, if you are BANNERMAN in a party... I mean... significantly overcapping spell suppress for the whole team is pretty insane and so is that massive block + LGOH.
War banner is the only banner worth using IMO and it's only good for phys melee builds or giga accuracy stackers - Builds are already extremely point starved there is just no way to justify investing into more banner stuff imo. Is it really worth putting 4 points into rallying icon + mastery? You can very likely spend 4 points for a similar or slightly smaller amount of damage all of the time rather than just in a banner window. Just take the nice phys damage amp when you drop war banner on map bosses/tanky rares ect on builds for 1 gem. The rate of valor gain for bossing makes them mostly irrelevant there unless you do some warcry stuff, but then you are also investing into that and I will state the same argument as above. Unfortunately I don't think the banner rework turned out quite what I think GGG was expecting, and as a player I much prefer they either left them how they were or just straight up deleted them. They were still extremely powerful to drop before (even though the vast majority of players didn't do that). Every other melee archetype (ele, bleed, poison, ect.) also got left by the wayside with these changes.
This not a slight at you or your videos by the way, the content is great, but I don't think this iteration of banners is and your deep dive into them kind of proves that I think :)
You're by far the best poe content creator lately. I'm British though, so totally biased.
I mean I hear you, but will my build creators hear you too and implement those buffs? :D
The chest piece is nice but with the changes coming to body armor you’ll be sacrificing a whole a lot of stats for some extra damage. Doesn’t seem worth
HAHAHAHAHA killer intro.
If a button doesn't increase my damage, I am not going to press it (unless it is an aura etc.).
Strength stacking no cooldown warcry bannerman go brrrrrrrrrrrrr
I think the banners suckkkk but i think its fun to scale. The old banners dcaled with aura effect too and were useful these are too generic
New totems lol
Seriously though, they are much better than existing totems and optional as well. Way better to use and make more sense for melee playstyle than totems.
That unique armor though needs buffs as well as Champion's node and note on the passive skill tree that provides +elemental res. They are a bit weak for banners.
I dont get the aoe pict, migth have to do with my colour blindless but....
nobody likes conditional effects and investing passive points into them has hidesous opportunity cost. The Suppress banner is pretty cool not gonna lie but i am not investing 20 points into it. Thats 2 full clusters.
Nice analysis but it seems like that's a lot of investment for something that won't have much uptime, unless you build around it like say on champion. The playstyle of planting banners every pack of monsters seems kind meh too.
i just dont like the conditional defensive on banner,unless they give you like free time to do more dps tho i dont think GGG will let the banner do this
They could have buffed champ by allowing them to use a banner with like 10 valour as an aura for free tbh, and have a constant field around them kind of like the Blasphemy support. Also grant them the ability to use an additional banner on top of that.
One.. giant.. leap.. FOR THE COWGIRL! 😂
Banners seem slept on tbh
They said they didnt like totems and then went and made another totem
Rip, welp there goes my plan. Losing the 8% increased damage taken breaks the skill for me. 😢
It's not enough damage/protection for the amount of investment you have to put in and up time.
Testing dominating blow champ without totems as is to see if its viable for leveling. It is, already in 3.24. Respec may be a bit expensive (10+) but the typical path is now littered with warcry and banner skills. Herald of purity would work well since warcries and banner dont have reservation.
I think that banners seem clunky and very specific. Melee kill? Bleed builds won't get valour except from warcry. They are far better than our old totems, and they do have some great effects. I have 2 builds ready. One immortal build that takes 0 damage from Uber memory game, with enough damage to reach DoT cap.
And one fast clear build with 130 million dps.
I did not utilize banners in either. But they are both melee builds, so I could if I wanted to.
I am trying to find a great starter build. 😅 Sure my 130 mil dps can be a starter build. I just want something solid.
I can't stand piano keying so I am probably going to avoid crys lol. Banners might be different though because it's basically place once in a fight and forget.
For the cowgirl!!
10/10 intro
great video, seems the chest piece will be a nice unique to use while farming ultimatums/tituals/expedition which are all kind of "stand in the circle" type of content
nice vid