Marvel Take Gay Iceman In Disturbing Direction
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- Опубліковано 19 жов 2024
- Marvel Comics are going to far portraying gay Iceman as young as 10 years old in their Marvel Voices: Iceman series. In a recent interview Marvel Voices: Iceman writer artist Luciano Vecchio confirms the series is about Iceman's journey as a gay character. But the imagery associated with the series is clearly aimed at very young children. DC Comics recently did something very similar with Tim Drake when he came out as gay. All of the sudden the character looks 14 rather than in his 20's. Aging down Marvel and DC heroes when they come out as LGBTQ is creepy behavior on the part of Marvel and DC Comics. Marvel Comics take gay Iceman is a disturbing direction in Marvel Voices.
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🤣🤣 me and my friends actually were going over this comic each week cause one of us was reading each issue and wow, one thing we found so hilarious.
You see, Romeo was a kid younger Iceman was dating until he ghosted Bobby. Romeo of the present would have been around the same age as young Bobby which would put him around 15 years old. And current day bobby would be the same age as Spiderman(whose 27). So as far as bobby was aware, this was current day Romeo he was sleeping with. And lol, don't give me that excuse that he has a mustache which shows he's older. I'm brown skin and my mustache was growing since I was like, 12😅😅😅. But yeah, later Romeo revealed to Bobby that threw time travel shinnanigans, he is now older. But that wasn't brought up until after these 2 had sex.
I mean😅😅😅😅🤣🤣🤣🤣 good lord man, just the thought that bobby had no problems sleeping with a minor but that it would be given a pass since those 2 are gay just😅😅😅😅dude, bobby, he may be gay but he is a HORRIBLE person to idolize for any gay youth out there😅😅😅😅
Wait. Thats the story? (Still watching the video.) Damn.... Most likely won't sells. But good reason for "Okay Groomer."
This doesn't help the stereotype of gay people being pedos or groomers. Big oof on Marvel's part. 😬
Imagine acting fake outraged about ages in comic books lmao. The shit’s vague on purpose. Teen characters introduced decades before another can be treated as the same age. It’s fine. If you’re seeing two adult gay characters in comics and just assuming one is underaged, that’s kind of on you my dude.
@@NidorinoAlliance what????? Dude I'm providing evidence since we are are talking time travel here???
Iceman's 15 year old self was the one that came from the past to the present and had a romance with Romeo who was from present day time. Romeo ghosted Bobby before he had to leave back to his own timeline and we never got to see Romeo ever again(assumed to have been killed along with the rest of the Inhumans in the Death of Inhumans story). Until this series came up and bam, Romeo is there and almost immediately, he and iceman start smashing without Bobby caring or asking what he's been up to which is weird cause as far as Bobby(who is in his late 20s) knows, this is modern day Romeo who is still a minor
🤮
Man..the Family Guy Iceman gag was more compelling than this. Hell....even back in the day, he used to be wannabe smooth operator as chill as ice. Now ..this feels even more forced than before...
It’s heartbreaking because Iceman was never intended to be Gay and Stan Lee said this himself. Yet Marvel just allows the legacy and foundation to be crapped on by these writers and artists.
So called writers. 👎
Blame Bendis.This guy is a cancer to industry since the early of the 2000's.
Correct 💯 In fact, Bobby was always kind of a hound. I have NOTHING against the gay community and I have several gay friends (who also hate the direction DC and Marvel have taken). But if you want gay characters, then create some new ones. Stop commandeering characters that we have come to love. Both companies have become complete trash!
Most of the ppl who are supportive of this wtfery are the kind who are " we got one of yours,suck it haters!" The ppl who like this don't actually BUY any of this is notwithstanding.
I don't know if Stan Lee ever said that but the push to turn iceman gay has been there since the 90's lobdell did a story that was basically a metaphor of getting gay bashed (but it happened to his dad) there was a comic where iceman and rogue went on a road trip and rogue spelled it out for the reader Bobby is gay (that one could have been written by waid) then in the 2000's joe Casey and Chuck austen did it again until bendis finally made it happen.
Wes, they are straight up grooming kids. This is why my daughter lives on a steady diet of back issues from the before times. The sooner Marvel and DC kill off their comics business the better off they will be. I’m hoping the Discovery merger will lead to more interesting and less intersectional comics in the future.
This goes all the way to Greece. The “ Highest Form” of love there was “Older Men and Young boys”. And people these days act like NAMBLA wasn’t a thing.
Why mostly modern cómic gay characters are BORING as heck?
Its like saying being gay its the only trick they know.
As a great man once said IT'S TIME TO STOP!
That’s pretty bad.
Give me back old Bobby Drake, please.
The problem is that the plot becomes "I'm gay. Excuse, did you know I'm gay? Sorry, I think you misheard me. I'm GAY!"
Contrast that with Wolverine and Mariko. Love, honour, sacrifice and loss. Or Peter and MJ. Two lovebirds trying to make it work in the face of impossible odds but still supporting one another no matter what life throws at them (well, until THAT story line came along).
These writers are hacks and the LGBT community, quite frankly, deserve better. The fans deserve better. They are being used as a marketing tool and the kicker is it's not even working. Sales are in toilet right alongside any integrity the industry was still holding on to.
He's the Marvel Comics version of that In Living Color sketch where Jim Carrey spends the entire time informing everyone he's gay.
Hey did I mention I'm gay? 🤣
Came late for this but definitely. What happened with their already existing characters of the LGBT+ community or them actually writting good new characters whose identities weren't "I'm gay" and that's it... but the moment you take that away they're nothing.
Like, I remember the Runaways, Young Avengers, Avengers: the Initiative and Avengers Academy and actually liking these new characters. Their stories had different characters representative of different things but that didn't make them their entire identities or that was shown 24/7. Like Karolina Dean in the Runaways; she's a lesbian and actually had a crush on one of her friends but that didn't mean it was all for her. Like, even when she comes out to Nico in the comics, I think she gets rejected but they still end up remaining friends and the storyline had more important matters than focusing on the romantic affairs and happiness of a lesbian.
The other stories regarding these grups were not much different. Each one had interesting new characters without disrespecting the already existing ones. Hell, Avengers: the Initiative was My Hero Academia before My Hero Academia was created.
Nowadays, modern day writters can't write original characters because the moment they do, they realise the characters suck balls so hard. And after calling everyone homophobe bigots, they turn already existing characters into this or that for woke points. And the woke mobs on the internet hyper inflate their egos by saying these change over of the characters are brave and smart when it's just soulless steaming hot garbage.
The correct characterization of Iceman is the middle ground between Peter Parker and Johnny Storm. Bobby is kind of nerdy and a quipster (not to the extent of Spidey) and he loves the ladies and ladies love him (though not to the extent of Johnny).
How much longer? For me none. I completely dropped Marvel, DC, and Netflix. I do miss a good Marvel or DC story, but that was true well before I quit them.
Remember when Rebirth was a good throwback to when DC had good stories? Yeah, I miss that too.
LGBT+ Propaganda targeted toward children how is this not grooming
FAX
Do kids want this stuff? When i was a kid i wanted to see a hero doing heroic things , ie beating the crap outta bad guys , saving the day in the nick of time. Action and great art. I cant see kids liking this stuff
I'm really sad with what Bobby Drake has been reduced to.
It’s sad what comics have come to
I blame Lorna.
@@StrawHatVladEK best comment here
@@tomfin-wo5vc true f that ho
Wes, you draw the right conclusion. DC and Marvel are to a large part not publishing superhero comics anymore. Books like this one aren't created by mistake but are exactly what they want to release. It's on you to decide to go along, or move on to back issues, manga or other forms of entertainment.
Marvel is worst.
But why are they creating this? Is this content even selling at a point where they can disregard their loyal readership?
@@brianbenjamin653 Look at their social media profiles. It’s ideologues that define their entire existence by these traits. It’s not even just the creators but the mid level management decision makers that don’t care about sales numbers for as long as they are seen championing the “right causes”.
Chasing trends is what comics are famous for. They are either going to die on this hill or a lot of it will fade away eventually.
8:13 was when I realized the new design of Iceman was a self insert.
It is getting a little bit disturbing. And I'm about getting tired of them using LGBT artists to draw a lot of these characters, who are LGBT and then draw them in like the stereotypical weird costumes and stuff like that. Then try to be like oh because we need to show the life of a LGBT person no that's not how this works! There's been plenty of LGBT characters before 2015 and they were drawn as human beings as real people not this disturbing LGBT harness and gay clothing and just unnecessary nonsense that is a big turn off. Look a lot of people do not want Iceman to be gay because it just doesn't make any logical sense and why would you hire him? Especially when you wouldn't even hire professional people who can actually draw professionally well who can actually make Iceman at least look like a man a real man! This stuff is getting disturbing they keep pushing this crap on us and then telling us we have to like it or something's wrong with us for not liking it, no it's disturbing it is quite frankly disturbing is downright disgusting at this point you know comic books was already a niche market as it is and then you going to try to Target a niche community and then expect people to still support it when you just keep doing things that a lot of people do not want. And then they wonder why they're not getting any sales and your purposely going up on prices and you wonder why people are not buying these books they're not buying it no matter what anybody says they're not buying it there are more people sharing images online, but that doesn't mean that they're buying these books or even reading them nine times out ten you question them, they can't tell you what happened in the story because they're not buying this the crap. They're only exciting because they finally get a character that is LGBT instead of actually caring about the character itself they're just happy that the character has that identity so they can be like oh we claim this one, great you claim it you claim Iceman now what? Oh you put them in a series that nobody's going to read because it's on an app and he's not going to be used in any major story lines anymore because don't nobody want to read him don't nobody want to read this. It is down right disrespectful to not only Jack Kirby and Stan Lee but to comic book fans of the character Iceman, to the X-Men themselves and you expect people to be like yeah this is a good idea we should keep reading and supporting this nonsense. No at some point Marvel Disney DC Warner Brothers all of this stuff they got to sit down and be like we need to stop this because it's not working doubling down on it does not work the fans are clearly rejecting it they made it where you can't sell Iceman outside the United States hardly no matter what they say they know during well that character could never show up in movies again and his merchandise barely can get sold because a lot of countries are rejecting this stuff there's only so much people can take before they hit a ceiling with all of this stuff. And then try to be like oh it's for kids it's for the LGBT youth no no it's not no it's not cuz most LGBT people do not care about comic books do not try that nonsense with us no stop stop trying to Target kids stop trying to use children as a reason to do all this stuff it is people's personal fetishes and hopes and fanfic that they got a chance to do this stuff with these characters and then trying to hide behind children. At some point it has to stop it really does because people are getting tired and people are walking away like young ripper said people are going to start finding alternatives to you know the mainstream and if DC and Marvel keeps this up people are going to find other avenues of material which they have in manga in the comic books and people who do crowdfunding more and more people are walking away from DC and Marvel and they still think that every day every year every month let's make another character LGBT but the LGBT community ain't coming for them so you change all these characters to virtue signal to a community that don't barely buy comic books make it make sense. I'm just disappointed how far the comic book industry has fallen honestly.
Very true
Agreed, but next time, give us paragraphs.
Preach, brother! 🤙
I agree but Jesus Christ you need to space this out
"Focus on Ice man's sexuality" That's literally been his personality and story ever since Jean Grey brain-buggered him into being gay. It was used for headlines, now used as a shield for terrible writers. In comic/shows; No one talks about the anything other then the characters being gay, especially in the final. One, makes them sound "inclusive" when they are not - and Two, canonizes their porn folder.
“Porn folder” lol. Y’all hear gay and immediately are like “I CANT STOP THINKING ABOUT GAY SEX”. It jumps immediately to porn for you freaks.
@@NidorinoAlliance It's telling you got that defensive over a comment made a year ago, so there is probably quite a lot of truth to it.
We've already seen enough of people shouting at fans that don't like changes to characters are just mad they can't "Jerk off" by people whose likes are public.
This is why manga is exploding. They have a genre for EVERYTHING including LGBT romance. They also treat their characters like real people instead of negative stereotypes.
And you can avoid things entirely if you want to. Everything is not in every book.
I think we'll be seeing the left attacking manga soon because of this.
American is either killing Japan in lgbt which is worst sometimes
I'm still amazed that the panel sequence where Jean and Bobby are talking has Bobby say: "What's happening?" right before Jean announces: "Bobby ... you're gay." It doesn't get any clearer than that. That's some major telepathic mind control. She was evil "Dark Jean Grey" long before Dark Phoenix happened.
Disney Grooming. Adding the P to LGBT "community"
The concept that Bobby being gay is a psychic post-hypnotic suggestion implanted by Jean is a fantastic way for this character to have a redemption arc and reclaim their straightness and agency.
Now we just need a writer with the balls to do it!
no because that would suggest that being gay is some horrifying thing. if you are gonna make him straight again don't treat it like it is some illness.
@@Diablo3364 No, it would suggest that being mind controlled into doing something that you you have never expressed any interest or inclination toward in your entire life was "some horrifying thing".
And that is because it is.
Quick question: Why did Jean brain wash Bobby into thinking he's gay. That's *straight* up gaslighting on her part.
Gay iceman isn’t the iceman i grew up with 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️
Hickman was our last hope. X-Men are dead.
Hickman X-Men sucks.
Honestly, it seems like the members of the LGBTQ+ community would be offended by what Bendis and Marvel did to Iceman as well as the "straight" community. Bobby Drake is NOT gay. This might get some heat, but if someone had had Hank McCoy "come out", I could have accepted that. Yeah, Hank has dated women, but for all of his attempts at acting like a womanizer, he has always gravitated to his guy friends. But Bobby? We have seen him in many relationships with females over the years. We've seen his thought bubbles. Bobby has always genuinely chased women. He might not have always had a lot of luck, but that was kind of chalked up to his immaturity. Which in the 90's, they were moving him forward and letting him gain some responsibility. Now, his only personality is "I'm gay!" I mean, that is just weak. Spider-Man isn't just: "I'm straight!"
Honestly, if I were just reading the comics and not thinking about the writer politics, I would say young Jean Grey put that thought in his mind and changed his personality. Which is a good sign of something evil going on in the story. If he WERE gay, pulling him out of the closet by reading his private thoughts would be evil. But if she just put that thought in his mind at that second, that is some serious sign of Phoenix level mind tampering. Not to mention that young Jean Grey as established by Stan Lee was a kind person who would NEVER do something like that to someone. So who is this evil character that just messes with people's mind on a whim?
They want to make western superhero comics into Yaoi
Sadly yeah
I agree. They should keep sexuality out of comics made for kids.
Everything I see old School Iceman..I see Bobby being a hero and a ladies man. This is issue with DC and Marvel.. I will never count the current runs of Iceman and Tim Drake cannon. Because this is a huge disrespect to Iceman and the long time fans. These writers never cared about the legacy characters and foundation of the history of characters.
I don't understand why being gay is a personality trait, Bobby never was flamboyant gay. Its like a total different character.
He looks like Ice-baby and not IceMAN. This is ugly and uncomfortable to look at.
Also, if the writer really did dive into the history of Iceman he would find more of his history as a straight hero who DID things than just a LGBT representative.
Who cares who these characters bone, tell a good damn story!
There's a reason these people hate the term "groomer" so much, it's because it hits the nail so squarely on the head.
They shouldn’t be showing this for four to five years old kids.They ve wrecked the original iceman by doing what they did.
They did
I shudder to think how many forests were sacrificed so crappy comics can be printed.
Just think how far Marvel has come: 30 years ago, Marvel got flack for having Northstar come out (very poorly) in Alpha Flight 106. Now they’ve gone full throttle on this. (I remember John Byrne’s reveal of Northstar’s sexuality was so subtle, you had to really pay attention.)
I've been saying for years now that modern activist creators basically pass the baton when they can so they have an answer ready when fans rightly ask where the idea that Iceman (or anyone) was hinted at being gay. They say "the subtext was there" and I can see that it's just previous activist writers inching forward in the shadow until finally, here we are, where modern Marvel ignores what the characters actually are instead of creating the characters they claim to want to see.
2:30 - The Ligbit Community, prior to 2015: "We just wanna marry! We're not coming for your kids!"
The Ligbit Community, now: "WE ARE COMING FOR YOUR CHILDREN!"
It really seems like they want to get as many young people as possible to embrace this sort of life style, or at the very least infanticize this idea of homosexuality by de-aging the characters and making them look youthful. There's definitely something behind it. It's all tied together.
Lack of creativity continues. As we stated before, the current creators decide to press and push all these ideas on the historical characters and expect the readers/fans to accept. This is not the way. If they want to create new characters, that would be fine. Prove to the readers, they are creating new ideas and storylines. If you just continue to reimagine the historical heroes as swapped no matter which type swap it may be, you're not proving you have original and compelling ideas - let alone true talent.
Iceman/Bobby Drake was never intended to be gay. He dated multiple women across his entire 60-years existence in Marvel Comics. He was hopelessly in love with Polaris, a woman, and pined for her for _years_ while she was in a relationship with Havoc. There was a whole story arc about him helping a past lover because she claimed her young daughter was theirs. _He managed to bang Mystique and live._ Iceman, as a character, was never intended or presented as being gay.
But NOW one mind-whammy from young!Jean Grey and suddenly he's 100% gay, no-questions-asked-or-allowed. And honestly, he's been written as a pretty mean-spirited, offensive stereotype of a gay man ever since then.
If he really had to become an LGBT character *_for the sake of diversity and representation_* then the right thing to do would be to make him bisexual and keep all his past romances intact and respected. But that's too much to ask for nowadays, I guess. :/
And that's not even getting into how disturbing this story is... Hey Marvel/Disney! Leave the kids alone!!
Did he read all those almost 60 years when Ice Man always was in love with women?
I used to be a massive Marvel & DC fan, now all i hope is that i get to see them go bust and close down in my lifetime
Ew! Yeah This IS disturbing... Wouldn't want to look these people in the eye :(
Thanks for the news ^^
I've been bothered with how much media has felt like fanfiction the past few years (I like fanfictions and crazy ideas; This is being *unprofessional)*
My heart breaks everytime I see Bobby now..... When I tell you guys he's been my *favorite X-Men* since 10... It's so disappointing.... It's like they're stealing away your poor ol grandma or something
I feel like the early 2000s craze with 'reality' tv made tv and movie producers forget how important writers are and were to Hollywood. It just filtered into every other media from there. And something definitely happened ~2015 to make them think that previous gay characters werent GAY ENOUGH to promote for their stuff.
@@fangorn23 Good thought 🤔 It does seem like that
@@fangorn23ironically enough, 2015 was the year I gave up on comics altogether. Like, I still love superheroes, comic books and marvel... but I'm talking about old school Marvel, not this garbage. And yeah, whatever happened with their already existing gay characters that were actually written well unlike "gay Iceman"? The fact there are people supporting this is insane...
Iceman used to be one of my favorite xmen, now there is just an awkwardness and creepiness attached to him that nobody wanted.
Worst decision in comics is retro fitting established characters into these cliche gay roles. It’s so rampant now it’s ridiculous
Gay Iceman and the Iceman that existed before Bendis, Grace, and the other diversity writers are not the same character.
What's weird is that you can tell when there is actual story vs not for LGBTQA+ characters. Notice how Northstar, Daken, Midnighter, Apollo etc are characters that have long been established as gay/bi yet they do not get as many stories. And when they do get used, by actual writers, they feel more organic, not stereotypes that need to remind you every other page. With how they write characters like Iceman now, if you point out the flaws with the story, the authors get a pass and the "haters" get labeled bigots and such. Most other characters don't have their sexuality as the core/sole aspect of their personality. As for art, I can't agree on Tim (since DC has majority of their characters locked in a set age and Tim just happens to always get the mid-late teen block), I feel like they do a mix of age regression and artists whose styles make things look kiddish (and honestly might never be used in comics otherwise) when dealing with Bobby.
I doubt many of the latest writers/artists could do justice with any of these characters, regardless of sexuality. The companies aren't doing things for ay staying power.
The problem with the art is that modern artists too often add manga-sensibilities to western-style drawings which makes all of them into pretty much chibi-versions of what they are mostly look like. The Iceman-Art here is a prime example for that.
I disagree. As Wes implies this isn't Manga sensibilities corrupting western art....it's a deliberate act of making Iceman look younger and cuter to attract younger readers. It's a predatory tactic. There are lots of manga art that depict older characters or even teens in cool ways.
@@rotimigbadebo9609 Oh, first off all, I really wouldn't say that Manga sensibilites "corrupt" western art. It's just that some artists don't know how to use them/are just not very good.
And also: Giving Iceman the Yaoi/Bishonen-look is maybe a way to attract younger readers because, yes, Manga visuals sell. Also yes, the authors/artists often don't have a good frame of reference as to what their audience is (or should be), which comes off as predatory to some people.
But it's also within the frame that Wes said: This series isn't a superhero-series or inspired by "cool looking" Manga styles like shonen, this is a "gay-love"-series, literally a Western Yaoi-series, which is probably the reason why the artist panders to that Manga-crowd.
I wouldn't go so far as to imply a predatory tactic and think that it's coming more from being tone-deaf and just not a very good artist when it comes to mixing the western- and anime-styles.
Honestly I kinda feel like it’s more distasteful to make a character gay and then treat them as pretty much just a token character and a diversity box rather than an actual character. We don’t need to be beat over the head with that character’s sexuality because that’s not how people normally act or talk. That’s why I’ve really loved the Midnighter and Apollo stuff I’ve read because are they in love and a couple? Yes. Do they care about each other? Yes. But those characters are written more tastefully and creatively because I feel like they don’t beat you over the head with those characters sexuality.
Refreshing to listen to videos from someone who talks about the comics. I've been a Marvel fan since I was a kid and it pains me to see what it's turned into.
Tim Drake has never been depicted as older than 17 to my knowledge. In Rebirth he was supposed to be 16 and there was a subplot around him getting into a super prestigious college even though he was younger than a normal college student. He should be 6-7 years older than Damian. I hate what's been done to Tim, but I've never gotten the impression he has been allowed to age into a legal adult.
Tim should be in his late 20s by now but of course the writers won't allow Tim to physically age for stupid reasons.
@Ryan Wilson Tim was 13 when he first appeared and 14 when he became Robin, DC Rebirth made Damian 13 so the math absolutely makes no sense. Tim is supposed to be around 1 to 2 years younger than Jason
@@Kaine-e4h conner and bart right?
@@zemox2534 nah dick should be in his late 20's, Jason mid and Tim early
DC has a weird set up. The only characters that were allowed to age were the Titans/Infinity Inc era characters and even that stopped once they got to about the mid 20s. With very few, poorly done exceptions (ie Jon Kent) ages have been frozen. None of the Jl or YJ characters have really aged in decades.
I can agree with most of what you’re saying But I don’t think “aging down” the character were intentional here. It seems more like a consequence of the art style chosen, because like you said, one of the characters looks like a 10 year old with a beard. It’s very similar to when people see some anime characters and be like “hmmm, looks pretty young” but in reality the character will be in their 20s or something (not talking about the 5000 y/o dragons lol).
Man Iceman used to be one of my favorite X-Men characters before they turned him gay. This artwork is disgusting. It clearly takes too much from manga styling and I cant help but think Iceman looks like a taller version of Astroboy
Also..This is modern Disney. There’s a reason why people are leaving them alone in droves.
I kind of noticed that too that newer comics often potray school kids in a more fanservice way than some of the mature adults.
Are we not going to talk about how messed up it is that Iceman was "made" gay by Jean Grey and now it's the new normal like that's messed up
Making that official would be the easiest retcon in the world--but it'll never happen, unfortunately.
They need or should make Iceman straight again, because he's become a joke.
The sales will be around ten to twelve too.
I grew up with the old Iceman. I'm glad I'm not reading what they've turned him into. It hurts just to imagine what they've done to him. 😞
Christ Almighty that art is creepy, and not just because it resembles manga.
Wouldn't a younger Iceman be living in a time when LGBT stuff was far less pronounced or accepted? Wasn't that the ENTIRE REASON his memories of being gay were submerged in his subconscious when it was revealed? The preview pages and the way they're talking act like it's the exact same as present day.
It's another aspect that doesn't make sense; since the whole idea was it being suppressed to the point where it took an Omega Telepath to bring it up; most of Bobby's stories should be happening now and him discovering things.
What’s crazy is, he’s been gay for like 6 years now and that’s still the only character trait they highlight.
As a gay man, I agree 100 percent. The problem isn't JUST with Iceman though. Once they make a character part of the community, it becomes there entire personality and worse they only become half of a more boring whole. Like Wiccan and Hulkling. If they aren't in the same panel, they are sulking about missing each other. Being gay either has to do with 100% of the story or 0% of the story. And writers don't seem to get that.
Bring back REAL Bobby Drake!
Bobby is 30. He was 15 in X-Men 1. The sliding timeline is around 15 years now.
Funny how they crap on anime and manga for how they write kids in there media. Here they are doing the samething but it worst.
This is sad. 😔
Iceman used to be my favorite X-Man.
Look at how they massacred my boy.
All they can do now is just tell us how GAY he is. Like... he literally doesn't talk about anything else.
One of my favorite characters ruined. He's unrecognizable now.
At one time audiences wanted to know which supervillains is the hero gonna fight.
Now we need to know instead who his new gay love interest is gonna be.
I'm glad that I don't collect anymore.
Obviously I'm not the target audience.
Its what happens when you hire a bunch of groomer activists to write and draw your comics. At this point no parent should ever let their kids anywhere near a comic or TV show without first reviewing everything about it. Its sad that the only thing that might be safe for kids will soon be nothing but religious kids shows. Either that or find a network/streaming service that only shows old cartoons and kids shows from the 60s - 80s. I don't know if one exists but its a big business opportunity if it doesn't. Parents are soon going to be scrambling for entertainment that they feel is safe and a streaming service that focuses on older safe shows could be a great business, even if you never create a new or original program for it.
Having had gay friends in the past, I've noticed, without actually addressing it, a lot of them tend to be drawn to the young, boyish clean-cut look. None of this is really about representation; this is about sex, kink and projection.
Old gay men love the younger guys. Case in point, famous Clinton donor Ed Buck that would get off on young gay men overdosing on drugs he supplied.
Yup, they like "twinks"
I see, interesting.
I want every body to watch the iconic mad as hell speech from the movie Network and it pretty much sums up what the fans are trying to say or want to say. Iceman's case is just like Robin and in a way Polarstar. Fanfic writers who would serve better in elseworld stories changing the main canon for the worse.
When I was reading Xmen, around 1979/82, if I had to designate potentially queer characters I would have said Iceman and Northstar. They were the ones I identified with, so There must have been a reason for this in the issues.
Now that the spotlight is slightly on them, it's funny to see all the binaries coming to the fore to deny them what makes a queer queer.
Luciano Vecchio has done a superb job visually, and in just a few volumes has given Bobby Drake a sentimental environment that will enable him to evolve satisfactorily into more typically Super Hero stories.
Comics like this make me fall in love with manga even more everyday.
Are the comicbook companies trying to destroy the identity of these characters? Will these stories holdup in value? The further they go down this path, the more valuable the back issues will become. My local comicbook stores are selling more back issues because of this. Even the value of filler back issues are becoming desirable. Great Video Wes
Love your channel thanks for speaking on this🖤
They shouldn't have changed this beloved character this way. This has to stop.
Iceman being gay only works if Jean actually brainwashed him. I remember when Emma "no morals" Frost went into his mind and turned shit upside down. If he had a single gay feeling you know Emma would have brought it up then lol.
Bobby Drake is in his 30's but as soon they turned him gay he behaves like a pre-teen. He jumped around on a pogostick and could barely make full sentences in his coming out series ffs. And now this. It is gross to be fair
The alphabet community needs to clean house. There seems to be way too many Ezra types there.
I do agree with what you said about what happens after characters come out. How they just kinda sees to be fleshed out characters.
There is NO way I would get a kid interested in comics.
The ONLY Comic with Gay-Iceman that DIDN'T Suck was in X-Men Gold, I'm not saying X-men gold was great, but Iceman wasn't bad in X-Men Gold and was still gay and it also had Gay-Iceman have a one-night stand with another character that was put in the story without making the story all about Iceman being gay.
I love how they kept the story about Superheroes and Iceman being a team player.
Media today is to the point that I'd have to read every single page of something before I'd feel comfortable handing it to a kid under 16.
It's sad that iceman and other comic book characters are being turned into.
DAMMIT wes ! you hit this One Out the park again! - However, we are still in troubled waters - thanks for this Vid
The entirety of the iceman outing saga did nothing but ruin the character imo mainly feeling like they just didn’t put any thought into how to do it properly and respectfully to the character in a way that showed some actual thought behind it…
Your Netflix image made me do a double take because my daughter's name is Becca. Lol
This character making him gay was forced since he was always played straight
At this point, I want to see the things that bought me joy as a kid just crash and burn. And that's sad.
Nuance would undermine the intention of the work
The REAL battle in comics:
DC and Marvel suing each other over the rights for the superhero, Chicken Hawk.
I literally hate what they've done to Bobby Drake. No character deserves such a treatment.
Having gay or any LGBTQ characters is important, we live in a diverse society and to some extent comics SHOULD reflect that, however sexualising child characters has to be wrong 🤦🏻♂️
And I totally agree that this is an alarming trend
Agreed, like you said the world is diverse, but that does mean is pass to be a creep.
Bobby is in his 30's
@@tobiookuma1835 yes, maybe someone should tell Luciano Vecchio that
Ok groomer
The X-Men back in '63 were supposed to be teenagers. Bobby was the youngest of the group. But they did drive cars and go to dance clubs in the city so they must have been in their late teens. But yeah, Bobby should be in his 20s at least in Marvel time. KIds don't read comics anymore, don't worry about them reading this.
The worst part is alot of LGBT people don't like this or this kind of representation. It's looks creepy and goes down a creepy road that they don't and is the worst stereotype about them
If DC, Marvel, Image, IDW, or Boom wants gay characters, fine, create new ones and *stop* making established ones gay because you want representation from a community that wasn’t really reading comics in the first place. Create new ones, let them succeed or fail on their own, not because of media coverage and/or backlash from readers that see long running characters get crapped on for the sake of a “coming out” issue or limited series for a temporary sales spike.
They were teens in the 1960s, not adults.
Break your habit and stop buying and supporting these companies
Wow! That's disgusting! So that's why he looks like a child. I really was very disappointed and sickening when they turned legacy characters Bobby Drake/Ice man and Alan Scott/original golden age Green Lantern gay.
Speak up against this wRong deeds. Because that is TRUE. Blame Jim Lee and Bendis and Disney
Pretty much every gay public figure who has talked about the subject has claimed that they first knew they were gay around the age of five or six. That in itself should prove that 'gay' is a subculture, and has little to do with sexuality.
Disney doing cuties in comic form.
Does he fall into a “dark hole” by any chance? That’d be interesting… for a few reasons I guess lol
I think that my favourite Ice-Man story is X-Factor #63 and #64, Ice-Man's girlfriend, Opal was kidnapped by cyborgs and taken to Japan. Bobby travels all the way to Japan and fights a gang of smaurai cyborgs to rescue her.