Ok, loads of good suggestions and much to think about. Thanks for participating. This video is currently ranking high at this point. Do you want a Sharp Sports Showdown 3? Based off your suggestions, mistakes were made in this round as well. I'm happy to go for round 3 if you think it can be improved. I've only got 3 BESS clips left so I'm happy to use them on this knife plus I have a standard BESS cartridge (not a fan) so I could use that I guess. If I use the cartridge I'll take a before reading so we can compare the two scores of cartridge vs clips and we can have a base reading to go off. But let's get specific. If you're keen to contribute more, please reply to this message with the exact steps you think I should take in what order to achieve the ultimate edge on this beautiful Miyabi knife. One thing I won't do is BESS test after the SG. I want to go through the entire process from SG at 12 degrees per side all the way to final strop before testing testing. Here's a list of tools at my disposal: 1) An SG-250 wheel 2) An SJ-250 wheel 3) A leather honing wheel with 3 compounds; Autosol (coarse grade), Tormek Paste (medium grade) and Chrome Oxide green compound (finest grade) 4) Kangaroo tail strop used 5) Kangaroo tail cleaned with alcohol 6) Kangaroo tail strop: fresh (I'll make a new one) 7) Kangaroo tail hanging strop rough side 8) Kangaroo tail hanging strop suede side 9) Fresh new Kangaroo tail hanging strop 10) Smooth thin kangaroo body leather strop mounted on wood with Chrome Oxide green compound Here's what I think I can do to improve (or did wrong) based off your comments: 1) Use clean water after every step and especially before the Japanese 4,000 wheel 2) Strip and clean the honing wheel and reload with fresh compound 3) Strip and clean the leather compound strop and reload with fresh compound 4) Start fresh with a 12 degree re-grind on the SG wheel 5) Use a marker to determine the correct angle on the SJ wheel instead of relying on the angle guide. 6) Make and use a fresh Kangaroo tail strop (in case the current one is loaded with metal - I'll investigate cleaning the current strop with alcohol) 7) Re-surface and true both the SG and SJ stone so they're fresh and correctly graded. 8) Restructure the procedure. With regards to that last point. What do you think the procedure should be given my current tools and setup? Should I go from the SG stone directly to the SJ stone without honing or stropping? Should I then go from the SJ stone to the fresh honing wheel, then to the kangaroo strop and then to the Chrome Oxide strop? Or should I hone and strop in between wheels? The reason I honed and stropped in between wheel for rounds 1 and 2 where so I could test the results of the SG wheel against the SJ wheel but I'm happy to leave that out and just go the full procedure and test at the end. Also, do you mind if I time lapse the steps to make the videos shorter or do you want me to show all steps in their entirety at normal speed so you can see exactly what I'm doing, including commentary? This is fun for me, thanks for being a part of this and I hope we're learning something along the way. Learning what not to do is just as important for our knowledge as seeing the correct way to do things and if I can achieve a better score I'll be even happier.
Hey Baz, I think you got bit by your microbevel from the green honing wheel again and stropping. Same stuff I said last time. No other reason I can think of you could be changing angle that much and still not hit it in places. You spend a lot of time on a finishing stone, even at the start with your first passes. I said how you know you're done too. You aren't trying to cut another apex, you are just refining at the correct angle. Once the scratch pattern/polish is all of the new grit, you are done. If you aren't, you weren't ready for that stone and moved to it too soon or you did something wrong. I think you need to either figure out how to mostly deburr on sg-250 or have a very flat roo strop you can hit the exact angle at free hand (maybe buy angle wedges or a digital angle cube) to do in between stones. I think whether you need to deburr after j stone will depend on how much pressure you use, how much time you spend on it, and how much is ground before switching sides. You should strop anyways after the j stone, just don't need anything aggressive to do a major deburring (hopefully) but instead something to further refine the edge at the right angle (ie compound, diamond paste,or even plain smooth leather) Unless you can set up the honing wheel so you aren't doing it free hand and it can hit the exact angle, I think skip it altogether when going for sharpest. I had a better day than last. Decided to give an old x50 steel a go. Wasn't my best day but got it sharp enough to do 90% of free standing rollie. Shaved well too but wasn't hair splitting so definitely not my best even with that steel. I think you just need a spring clip and weight you can tape to it to equal 100g and then that tensions the string when using canister. Tedious but reliable.
@@mikeboettcher9709 Oh man, I had a multi paragraph 15 minute long reply all typed out and the video skipped forward and I lost it all. Haven't got the heart to write it all out again right now but I'll try and take in your suggestions next time. I do want to try again and will try some of your suggestions. Thanks.
@@iSharpen My suggestion: 1. SG-250 wheel 2. leather honing wheel with Tormek paste 3. used roo strop rough side (10 passes per side) 4. compound wheel Crome Oxyde 5. suede side hanging roo leather (but rather the hard side of flat pure leather on wood, holding exact sharpening angle 12-15 passes per side and just for the last 2 slow soft passes per side at 45 degree angle. ) Time lapse is good, maybe interrupted with some comment or information.
@@iSharpen yeah, had that happen before too. Real gut punch after all the typing. Whichever suggestions you try from different people just remember after you establish the apex you are only refining. If you free hand anything you have to maintain the angle established. did you ever watch outdoors55 newer video on double hair whittling? Did you ever read science of sharp blog? Lots of info on burrs and burr removal, how edge refinement works, sharpness vs keenness, stropping, etc with SEM photos galore. Might get some more insight into how you can get better results.
Alright, here are my two cents; What I believe happened is that because it took so long to hit the apex on one side of the blade, a decent sized burr was created (one side of the edge had a lot of passes, the other side basically none, until you apexed). Two ways to reduce/combat this are; lots of light alternating passes or dragging the edge 90 degrees over a wetstone. This is what I like to call jointing. It takes the apex right off, but takes the burr with it. A few light alternating passes back on the tormek would quickly apex the secondary bevel again. This seems time involving but is actually often quicker than the first method. Lastly, on a 4000 grit stone, before even thinking about stropping, you want to be able to cleanly shave arm hair (1xx Bess score). When this is not achieved, stropping will definitely work, but you’ll never be able to gain the maximum amount of sharpness achievable.
Yeah but I spent so much time on that one side because it wasn't going near the apex. So a burr couldn't have developed. It was basically just shining the bevel and doing nothing to aid sharpness.
What i’m trying to say is that you did not reach the apex on one side, so you were not bending the burr from one side to the other either (to weaken and remove it). You were hitting both sides, and one side was hitting the apex, the burr was allowed to fold over to the other side and then not be removed by the passes on the problematic side. In time this burr grew larger. This explains the high bess score straight off a 4000 grit stone. English is not my first language, I hope you understand what I am trying to say however.
@@lars43771 what if actually like to do us fly you down here so we can work together...lol your English is fine. Might have to do round three. I'm not happy with this round. Lots of great suggestions from everyone. I want to try again. I should be able to see a low 60s score with this fantastic knife.
@@iSharpen I’d love to come over with a few stones/strops and a collection of different rolling papers, i’m sure we’d be able to figure this problem out. My funds and wife say otherwise, however😆
Have you tried going edge trailing with the 4000 grit wheel? I feel this should draw out the burr to a super fine foil edge that should easily be stropped off.
From experience, I would suggest going for hand stropping on leather with 1 then 0.25 diamond compound after doing the whole honing/roo thing. Mine takes very well to fine stropping and it makes the edge absolutely screaming. I no longer have access to a BESS tester so I cant tell you the number, but I can get it to the point where it bites into my finger and draws blood before I even feel it touching.
@@kvernesdotten interesting. I don't do diamond spray but I do have a hard strop with chrome oxide. Others have suggested I hop back onto the chrome oxide honing wheel after the kangaroo. I might try that or the hard strop with chrome oxide. Both suggestions are the same, a bit of refining after the violence of the kangaroo strop might help.
I had this identical knife which I gave to one of my daughters , along with 2 smaller knifes by this same maker . I hand sharpen all of my knives along with families knives solely using sharpening stones . I own from 150 grit to around 30000 grit . Rarely do I need a razor strop , but I do use when finishing on razors . I wasn't a fan of these only for the chipping on the edge because of their hardness . Nice looking knives though a little heavy in my opinion . I also had a 4 knife set which a daughter got last Christmas from me with cork handles , price was $ 1200.00 for the set . They were also Japanese knives . Great work and video's , keep up the great work . I'm retired and simply love sharpening knives , it's my passion . I just received 3 cheaper Japanese knives and am expecting 6 more that I will sharpen before giving out as Christmas presents . Have a great day .
I suggest studying Dr Vadim Kraichuk's Books and Videos. Getting below 50 BESS is really just a matter of deburring, not of building an edge. I think deburring and stropping freehand (as in this video) is not the way to go. Going on the SJ-250 AFTER the stropping seems counterproductive, the proof being the cration of a new burr. Dr Kraichuk's little variations in the angle when deburring depending on the type of steel are noteworthy. I also recommend the new KS-123, avoiding these errors with the diameter. For me, it started a new liking of the SJ-250 because it shortens the workflow.
@@keewitz612 Since dying I thought his family abandoned all his products but I found a copy still for sale on Amazon. Might grab one. I stripped after the SG because I wanted to test it to compare to the SJ. The SJ is still a mystery to me.
Hi Baz, new subscriber since a few weeks now and love all your videos!! Highly educational. Couldn't resist so had to ask you, but is that a bottle of Singha beer near you window?? 😋 Keep up the good work! Greetzz from Belgium, Kenny
@@kennystouten5752 hey! Welcome aboard. It's there to remind me of a great customer I had who brought beers to his sharpening. I thought that was funny and cool so I leave my empty there. Plus I think it makes a great prop.
very good video on the japanese myabi knife, the thing i would do different is after the 4k wheel i am using a balsa soft/light wood with 0,5 um compound as a substitute for the kangaroo strop, (witch i like to have but here in sweden is a very strict animal protection so not selling here :-( ). the balsa technic is working great for me so pleas try it :-)
28:04 - When it the grinding feel changes is usually a good indication for me, though its alot harder to feel on a machine than by freehand. Its kinda like when you talk about the honing wheel "grabbing" the steel a bit, when you feel like it stops "taking" thats usually a good sign you have replaced the previous scratch pattern with a new one.
@@kvernesdotten thanks. The problem is with the Japanese wheel there's no change. It feels totally slippery from start to finish. There's no change in the feel at all.
Bazz, You are the man, good on you! You made it sharper. RightOn RightOn RightOn. I belive still when the bevels angles where changed a new apex was made creating as you said with new burr. Maybe use your magnification scope. Try your normal path speed when on your JWS. You are the man You and Alex
They cant be trusted, I had that system and returned it, had absolutely unstable results, if you place a little heavier pressure it will give you different number, they say to apply pressure steadily over few seconds, but even then it would give different results each time, my ultimate test is if when your knife can shave hair, you know you sharpened it just right
@ yeah but everyone’s hair is different and what if you’re a commercial sharpener like me? What are you going to shave every time? I’m already bald enough. As for the BESS. I disagree when you use preset cartridges it’s pretty stable. But the canister is unstable. I did a video on it if you care to search for it.
@iSharpen lol for sure, u cant shave hair if ure sharpening big qty, usually when it can split hairs- knife is razor sharp. Your test that shows cutting very thin magazine paper is also a good indicator of a sharp knife. Also when it can glide through skin of a soft tomato 🍅 that is a good indicator knife is extremely sharp.
@@ia6980 We can take vegetables or fruit off the table, you'll never find any in my home. Also, I have no hair on my head so I'd have to go to a hair dresser to collect hairs which is not a bad idea but I haven't tried that yet. Thin magazine or even better telephone book paper or the best test which is cigarette rolling paper tells me everything i need to know. When I first started, I struggled to even slice through normal magazine paper. Then I finally understood the edge and got better and better. I'm still not the best sharpener on the interwebs but I'm more than good enough for my customers both domestic and commercial.
@@iSharpen I would think it's better stuck to the stone directly and at that size might be small enough to use with the T4 as well. As far as the sharpening i would go down a different route Start be using the KS-123 Knife Angle Setter,check it out on the Tormek youtube if you haven't already then using the SJ wheel as the angle is adjusted on the guide rail will be exactly the same then try guided honing using the tormek paste again using the KS-123 to set it up then go to the kangaroo block strop.
@@PDSVIDEO1966 yep, these small used up T8 wheels will fit in a T4. You think contact cement will stick to a stone? KS-123, no thanks. I lost the will to live half way through their video on the day they released it. I rarely switch wheels anyway. The SJ is largely useless. And the regular Angie finder takes only 3 seconds to use. The KS is over engineered and redundant for my use. If you have lots of different sized wheels and are always changing between them I can maybe see a use but it's a head shaker for me I'm afraid.
@@PDSVIDEO1966 good idea. Although I was also thinking to just use Gorilla double sided tape directly onto the gaff tape. These are very low rev machines with hardly any stress.
The only thing I would try is going to a 25deg angle & finish off with an 8000 stone. Japanese steel seems to like that angle. Since I’ve changed to a 25deg angle I’m shaving arm hairs
Why 25°? I sharpen my miyabis from 11°-15° per angle and had no problems in shaving hair, and process took half the time than in this video on fixed ts prof system
I like how you try every possible thing to improve. What I would try is two things: do quicker lighter alternating passes on the Japonese wheel towards the end. Quicker lighter passes might reduce the burr size. And then move to the honing wheel using the support rail at the same angle and also do alternating passes there. Let me know if that made a difference. Hope my English is understandable. Greetings from Zurich
Yes I do, but I own also two wheels from the Butzbacher Schleifwerke, I get them from a quy in Germany. Both are around 600 grid , the white one for knives, the green one for HSS wood turning tools typically. I don’t use the J Stone for everyday use, more of a bevel has to be nice and shiny. And I also don’t use the SG 250 anymore, after the experiences with the other stones.
Maybe shouldn't have changed the apex angle when you went to the Japanese stone to give the final polish. When putting on a mirror finish - one stroke per side / one pass per side. The best tester is good but with the results that were expecting you should have magnification to be able to see what type of burr that was created. Just my observation
@@acakakarot once you lock in the knife, use it on every stone to confirm Angle Only take 15 seconds to snap it on and confirm I also use it on the honing side So far my best knife was 52 with the clips on bess
@@acakakarot that's a good suggestion. I've done that before, not sure why I didn't think of that. Spent too much time polishing the bevel for nothing.
A Bloch of soft wood on the sg gives a third / finer grit. Than honing on a sj or the leather wheel I personally think marking the edge on different grits a the Japanese stone is very satisfying.
If sharpening gets olimpic- you're prepared. 👌 I'm curious if the result would get better, if you polish few passes on the compound wheel again after the roo tail stropping and finalize on the soft hanging leather. 🤔😊
@@iSharpen yes that compound is what 8k grit? Let the roo tail pull the burr and clean up with compound again. I have noticed some steel release the burr easier
I found when moving to that Japan stone to change the water out. I use my microscope to confirm apex very easily to see In my limited experience 1 degree higher on that stone was to much i do 1/4 to 1/2 higher and only after microscope inspection confirmation that im not hitting apex You basically started over with a micro beveled
@@viper04af good idea on the water. My microscope isn't strong enough to see what's going on at the apex though I think. Good input with the angle but even 1 degree didn't get me to apex. I think in round 3 I'll use the marker method on both sides.
@@simonhouweling9771 I have several and even a digital microscope. It looks shiny but that doesn't seem to translate into sharper edges for me (as measured by the BESS tester anyway. As I mentioned before, I must be missing something or I need more skill or knowledge.
@@iSharpen maybe that an perfect sharpened blade can be too smooth? Maybe a setup with a carrot or tomato and a small weight ? That gives a cutting result. Like a project farm setup?
diamond plates 80 and 320 ... on what scale? none of JIS, ANSI, FEPA-F, FEPA-P make any sense at all to me. Tormek says 220 and 1000 ... on what scale none of JIS, ANSI, FEPA-F, FEPA-P make any sense at all to me.
Ok, loads of good suggestions and much to think about. Thanks for participating. This video is currently ranking high at this point.
Do you want a Sharp Sports Showdown 3? Based off your suggestions, mistakes were made in this round as well. I'm happy to go for round 3 if you think it can be improved. I've only got 3 BESS clips left so I'm happy to use them on this knife plus I have a standard BESS cartridge (not a fan) so I could use that I guess. If I use the cartridge I'll take a before reading so we can compare the two scores of cartridge vs clips and we can have a base reading to go off.
But let's get specific. If you're keen to contribute more, please reply to this message with the exact steps you think I should take in what order to achieve the ultimate edge on this beautiful Miyabi knife. One thing I won't do is BESS test after the SG. I want to go through the entire process from SG at 12 degrees per side all the way to final strop before testing testing.
Here's a list of tools at my disposal:
1) An SG-250 wheel
2) An SJ-250 wheel
3) A leather honing wheel with 3 compounds; Autosol (coarse grade), Tormek Paste (medium grade) and Chrome Oxide green compound (finest grade)
4) Kangaroo tail strop used
5) Kangaroo tail cleaned with alcohol
6) Kangaroo tail strop: fresh (I'll make a new one)
7) Kangaroo tail hanging strop rough side
8) Kangaroo tail hanging strop suede side
9) Fresh new Kangaroo tail hanging strop
10) Smooth thin kangaroo body leather strop mounted on wood with Chrome Oxide green compound
Here's what I think I can do to improve (or did wrong) based off your comments:
1) Use clean water after every step and especially before the Japanese 4,000 wheel
2) Strip and clean the honing wheel and reload with fresh compound
3) Strip and clean the leather compound strop and reload with fresh compound
4) Start fresh with a 12 degree re-grind on the SG wheel
5) Use a marker to determine the correct angle on the SJ wheel instead of relying on the angle guide.
6) Make and use a fresh Kangaroo tail strop (in case the current one is loaded with metal - I'll investigate cleaning the current strop with alcohol)
7) Re-surface and true both the SG and SJ stone so they're fresh and correctly graded.
8) Restructure the procedure.
With regards to that last point. What do you think the procedure should be given my current tools and setup? Should I go from the SG stone directly to the SJ stone without honing or stropping? Should I then go from the SJ stone to the fresh honing wheel, then to the kangaroo strop and then to the Chrome Oxide strop? Or should I hone and strop in between wheels?
The reason I honed and stropped in between wheel for rounds 1 and 2 where so I could test the results of the SG wheel against the SJ wheel but I'm happy to leave that out and just go the full procedure and test at the end.
Also, do you mind if I time lapse the steps to make the videos shorter or do you want me to show all steps in their entirety at normal speed so you can see exactly what I'm doing, including commentary?
This is fun for me, thanks for being a part of this and I hope we're learning something along the way. Learning what not to do is just as important for our knowledge as seeing the correct way to do things and if I can achieve a better score I'll be even happier.
Hey Baz, I think you got bit by your microbevel from the green honing wheel again and stropping. Same stuff I said last time. No other reason I can think of you could be changing angle that much and still not hit it in places.
You spend a lot of time on a finishing stone, even at the start with your first passes. I said how you know you're done too. You aren't trying to cut another apex, you are just refining at the correct angle. Once the scratch pattern/polish is all of the new grit, you are done. If you aren't, you weren't ready for that stone and moved to it too soon or you did something wrong.
I think you need to either figure out how to mostly deburr on sg-250 or have a very flat roo strop you can hit the exact angle at free hand (maybe buy angle wedges or a digital angle cube) to do in between stones.
I think whether you need to deburr after j stone will depend on how much pressure you use, how much time you spend on it, and how much is ground before switching sides.
You should strop anyways after the j stone, just don't need anything aggressive to do a major deburring (hopefully) but instead something to further refine the edge at the right angle (ie compound, diamond paste,or even plain smooth leather)
Unless you can set up the honing wheel so you aren't doing it free hand and it can hit the exact angle, I think skip it altogether when going for sharpest.
I had a better day than last. Decided to give an old x50 steel a go. Wasn't my best day but got it sharp enough to do 90% of free standing rollie. Shaved well too but wasn't hair splitting so definitely not my best even with that steel.
I think you just need a spring clip and weight you can tape to it to equal 100g and then that tensions the string when using canister. Tedious but reliable.
@@mikeboettcher9709 Oh man, I had a multi paragraph 15 minute long reply all typed out and the video skipped forward and I lost it all. Haven't got the heart to write it all out again right now but I'll try and take in your suggestions next time. I do want to try again and will try some of your suggestions. Thanks.
@@iSharpen My suggestion:
1. SG-250 wheel
2. leather honing wheel with Tormek paste
3. used roo strop rough side (10 passes per side)
4. compound wheel Crome Oxyde
5. suede side hanging roo leather (but rather the hard side of flat pure leather on wood, holding exact sharpening angle 12-15 passes per side and just for the last 2 slow soft passes per side at 45 degree angle. )
Time lapse is good, maybe interrupted with some comment or information.
@@lone-wolf-1 so back into the honing wheel after the kangaroo strop? Interesting. I'd never considered that. Good suggestion. Thanks.
@@iSharpen yeah, had that happen before too. Real gut punch after all the typing.
Whichever suggestions you try from different people just remember after you establish the apex you are only refining. If you free hand anything you have to maintain the angle established.
did you ever watch outdoors55 newer video on double hair whittling?
Did you ever read science of sharp blog? Lots of info on burrs and burr removal, how edge refinement works, sharpness vs keenness, stropping, etc with SEM photos galore.
Might get some more insight into how you can get better results.
Alright, here are my two cents; What I believe happened is that because it took so long to hit the apex on one side of the blade, a decent sized burr was created (one side of the edge had a lot of passes, the other side basically none, until you apexed). Two ways to reduce/combat this are; lots of light alternating passes or dragging the edge 90 degrees over a wetstone. This is what I like to call jointing. It takes the apex right off, but takes the burr with it. A few light alternating passes back on the tormek would quickly apex the secondary bevel again. This seems time involving but is actually often quicker than the first method. Lastly, on a 4000 grit stone, before even thinking about stropping, you want to be able to cleanly shave arm hair (1xx Bess score). When this is not achieved, stropping will definitely work, but you’ll never be able to gain the maximum amount of sharpness achievable.
Yeah but I spent so much time on that one side because it wasn't going near the apex. So a burr couldn't have developed. It was basically just shining the bevel and doing nothing to aid sharpness.
What i’m trying to say is that you did not reach the apex on one side, so you were not bending the burr from one side to the other either (to weaken and remove it). You were hitting both sides, and one side was hitting the apex, the burr was allowed to fold over to the other side and then not be removed by the passes on the problematic side. In time this burr grew larger. This explains the high bess score straight off a 4000 grit stone. English is not my first language, I hope you understand what I am trying to say however.
@@lars43771 what if actually like to do us fly you down here so we can work together...lol your English is fine.
Might have to do round three. I'm not happy with this round. Lots of great suggestions from everyone. I want to try again. I should be able to see a low 60s score with this fantastic knife.
@@iSharpen I’d love to come over with a few stones/strops and a collection of different rolling papers, i’m sure we’d be able to figure this problem out. My funds and wife say otherwise, however😆
@@lars43771 Keep watching and liking my videos and maybe UA-cam will pay for it one day.
For the diamondplates. There is more to come after this test
(Better late then sorry)
@@Ringarn67 thanks!! Please explain what you mean about "for the diamond plates" I'd love to help you in any way I can.
@@iSharpen You have already helped me 😃I have sent you an email
Have you tried going edge trailing with the 4000 grit wheel? I feel this should draw out the burr to a super fine foil edge that should easily be stropped off.
From experience, I would suggest going for hand stropping on leather with 1 then 0.25 diamond compound after doing the whole honing/roo thing. Mine takes very well to fine stropping and it makes the edge absolutely screaming. I no longer have access to a BESS tester so I cant tell you the number, but I can get it to the point where it bites into my finger and draws blood before I even feel it touching.
@@kvernesdotten interesting. I don't do diamond spray but I do have a hard strop with chrome oxide. Others have suggested I hop back onto the chrome oxide honing wheel after the kangaroo. I might try that or the hard strop with chrome oxide. Both suggestions are the same, a bit of refining after the violence of the kangaroo strop might help.
I had this identical knife which I gave to one of my daughters , along with 2 smaller knifes by this same maker . I hand sharpen all of my knives along with families knives solely using sharpening stones . I own from 150 grit to around 30000 grit . Rarely do I need a razor strop , but I do use when finishing on razors . I wasn't a fan of these only for the chipping on the edge because of their hardness . Nice looking knives though a little heavy in my opinion . I also had a 4 knife set which a daughter got last Christmas from me with cork handles , price was $ 1200.00 for the set . They were also Japanese knives . Great work and video's , keep up the great work . I'm retired and simply love sharpening knives , it's my passion . I just received 3 cheaper Japanese knives and am expecting 6 more that I will sharpen before giving out as Christmas presents . Have a great day .
Cool! Sharpening knives is a very soothing and therapeutic experience no matter what the method is. Thanks for watching.
Thanks very much man! 👍🏻 maybe try the Bess before and after honing?
This knife has been sold now. If I ever get another Miyabi I'll try it. Or maybe I'll try with one of the new BAZ knives when they arrive.
I suggest studying Dr Vadim Kraichuk's Books and Videos. Getting below 50 BESS is really just a matter of deburring, not of building an edge. I think deburring and stropping freehand (as in this video) is not the way to go. Going on the SJ-250 AFTER the stropping seems counterproductive, the proof being the cration of a new burr. Dr Kraichuk's little variations in the angle when deburring depending on the type of steel are noteworthy. I also recommend the new KS-123, avoiding these errors with the diameter. For me, it started a new liking of the SJ-250 because it shortens the workflow.
@@keewitz612 Since dying I thought his family abandoned all his products but I found a copy still for sale on Amazon. Might grab one.
I stripped after the SG because I wanted to test it to compare to the SJ. The SJ is still a mystery to me.
Yes, that new KS 123 is certainly a wonderful time saving jig. Most impressed.
Hi Baz, new subscriber since a few weeks now and love all your videos!! Highly educational.
Couldn't resist so had to ask you, but is that a bottle of Singha beer near you window?? 😋
Keep up the good work!
Greetzz from Belgium,
Kenny
@@kennystouten5752 hey! Welcome aboard. It's there to remind me of a great customer I had who brought beers to his sharpening. I thought that was funny and cool so I leave my empty there. Plus I think it makes a great prop.
very good video on the japanese myabi knife, the thing i would do different is after the 4k wheel i am using a balsa soft/light wood with 0,5 um compound as a substitute for the kangaroo strop, (witch i like to have but here in sweden is a very strict animal protection so not selling here :-( ).
the balsa technic is working great for me so pleas try it :-)
28:04 - When it the grinding feel changes is usually a good indication for me, though its alot harder to feel on a machine than by freehand. Its kinda like when you talk about the honing wheel "grabbing" the steel a bit, when you feel like it stops "taking" thats usually a good sign you have replaced the previous scratch pattern with a new one.
@@kvernesdotten thanks. The problem is with the Japanese wheel there's no change. It feels totally slippery from start to finish. There's no change in the feel at all.
What is the purpose of preparing wheel with a diamond sanding paper can you sharpen knives without using those papers?
@@ia6980 look for my video “ingenious Tormek Hack” it explains the diamond plates. I use 17gsm papers as they’re extremely reliable.
@iSharpen thanks!
Bazz,
You are the man, good on you! You made it sharper. RightOn RightOn RightOn. I belive still when the bevels angles where changed a new apex was made creating as you said with new burr. Maybe use your magnification scope. Try your normal path speed when on your JWS. You are the man You and Alex
@@DonMcGlasson thanks. Maybe one day I'll be fit to bring Alex coffee.
How about the teststrings, are they to be trusted?
Yes, I trust them more than the drawstring. I just bought 500 of them.
They cant be trusted, I had that system and returned it, had absolutely unstable results, if you place a little heavier pressure it will give you different number, they say to apply pressure steadily over few seconds, but even then it would give different results each time, my ultimate test is if when your knife can shave hair, you know you sharpened it just right
@ yeah but everyone’s hair is different and what if you’re a commercial sharpener like me? What are you going to shave every time? I’m already bald enough.
As for the BESS. I disagree when you use preset cartridges it’s pretty stable. But the canister is unstable. I did a video on it if you care to search for it.
@iSharpen lol for sure, u cant shave hair if ure sharpening big qty, usually when it can split hairs- knife is razor sharp. Your test that shows cutting very thin magazine paper is also a good indicator of a sharp knife. Also when it can glide through skin of a soft tomato 🍅 that is a good indicator knife is extremely sharp.
@@ia6980 We can take vegetables or fruit off the table, you'll never find any in my home. Also, I have no hair on my head so I'd have to go to a hair dresser to collect hairs which is not a bad idea but I haven't tried that yet. Thin magazine or even better telephone book paper or the best test which is cigarette rolling paper tells me everything i need to know. When I first started, I struggled to even slice through normal magazine paper. Then I finally understood the edge and got better and better. I'm still not the best sharpener on the interwebs but I'm more than good enough for my customers both domestic and commercial.
The first bes test was a 79.
Yeah, lol I realised that when editing. Close enough. I was expecting a 60-ish BESS. I still think it's a waste of time polishing the edge.
Nice work
@@MrWarhawk700 😉
Kangaroo tail around the old sg wheel,i actually thought about that a while back after you used the cbn wheel.
Bingo! Exactly what I was thinking. I even wonder if contact glue will stick directly to the SG wheel or if I should glue to the gaffa tape.
@@iSharpen I would think it's better stuck to the stone directly and at that size might be small enough to use with the T4 as well. As far as the sharpening i would go down a different route Start be using the KS-123 Knife Angle Setter,check it out on the Tormek youtube if you haven't already then using the SJ wheel as the angle is adjusted on the guide rail will be exactly the same then try guided honing using the tormek paste again using the KS-123 to set it up then go to the kangaroo block strop.
@@PDSVIDEO1966 yep, these small used up T8 wheels will fit in a T4.
You think contact cement will stick to a stone?
KS-123, no thanks. I lost the will to live half way through their video on the day they released it. I rarely switch wheels anyway. The SJ is largely useless. And the regular Angie finder takes only 3 seconds to use. The KS is over engineered and redundant for my use. If you have lots of different sized wheels and are always changing between them I can maybe see a use but it's a head shaker for me I'm afraid.
@@iSharpen Might be worth sticking a small piece of kangaroo tail to one of the stones and see how easy it comes off.
@@PDSVIDEO1966 good idea. Although I was also thinking to just use Gorilla double sided tape directly onto the gaff tape. These are very low rev machines with hardly any stress.
The only thing I would try is going to a 25deg angle & finish off with an 8000 stone.
Japanese steel seems to like that angle.
Since I’ve changed to a 25deg angle I’m shaving arm hairs
Why 25°? I sharpen my miyabis from 11°-15° per angle and had no problems in shaving hair, and process took half the time than in this video on fixed ts prof system
Glididge can be improved by gliding the edge over the “head” of a small block of soft wood. The same block I use to get the extra fine grit on my sg.
I think a block of wood might remove some of the loose particles but won't remove any adhered particles.
@@iSharpen true, I do it as an extra.
I like how you try every possible thing to improve. What I would try is two things: do quicker lighter alternating passes on the Japonese wheel towards the end. Quicker lighter passes might reduce the burr size. And then move to the honing wheel using the support rail at the same angle and also do alternating passes there. Let me know if that made a difference. Hope my English is understandable. Greetings from Zurich
@@felixbaader6817 I appreciate your comments. Do you own an SJ wheel?
Yes I do, but I own also two wheels from the Butzbacher Schleifwerke, I get them from a quy in Germany. Both are around 600 grid , the white one for knives, the green one for HSS wood turning tools typically.
I don’t use the J Stone for everyday use, more of a bevel has to be nice and shiny.
And I also don’t use the SG 250 anymore, after the experiences with the other stones.
@@felixbaader6817 the SJ is mostly useless. I only use the SG. I love it. I've only had bad luck with CBN.
@@felixbaader6817which stone would you recommend over sg250?
Maybe shouldn't have changed the apex angle when you went to the Japanese stone to give the final polish. When putting on a mirror finish - one stroke per side / one pass per side. The best tester is good but with the results that were expecting you should have magnification to be able to see what type of burr that was created.
Just my observation
Do you have a Japanese wheel?
When I use japanise stone a prefer a marker metod
I find with the new angels jig I don't need to marker anymore
@@viper04af i have new angle jig but i did not try it on JS
@@acakakarot once you lock in the knife, use it on every stone to confirm Angle
Only take 15 seconds to snap it on and confirm
I also use it on the honing side
So far my best knife was 52 with the clips on bess
@@acakakarot that's a good suggestion. I've done that before, not sure why I didn't think of that. Spent too much time polishing the bevel for nothing.
A Bloch of soft wood on the sg gives a third / finer grit. Than honing on a sj or the leather wheel I personally think marking the edge on different grits a the Japanese stone is very satisfying.
If sharpening gets olimpic- you're prepared. 👌
I'm curious if the result would get better, if you polish few passes on the compound wheel again after the roo tail stropping and finalize on the soft hanging leather. 🤔😊
I always do this, there is a burr there to get rid of
@@lone-wolf-1 interesting. Do you think there's a better score to be had?
@@viper04af are you saying I should compound wheel, then kangaroo tail and then compound wheel again?
@@iSharpen yes that compound is what 8k grit?
Let the roo tail pull the burr and clean up with compound again.
I have noticed some steel release the burr easier
@@viper04af interesting, I don't normally use the kangaroo tail to pull the burr. Only to release the wire edge. Something to think about for sure.
I found when moving to that Japan stone to change the water out.
I use my microscope to confirm apex very easily to see
In my limited experience 1 degree higher on that stone was to much i do 1/4 to 1/2 higher and only after microscope inspection confirmation that im not hitting apex
You basically started over with a micro beveled
@@viper04af good idea on the water. My microscope isn't strong enough to see what's going on at the apex though I think.
Good input with the angle but even 1 degree didn't get me to apex. I think in round 3 I'll use the marker method on both sides.
Use a good magnifying glass ( loepe ?)
To see how far the edge is from the Japanese stone.
@@simonhouweling9771 I have several and even a digital microscope. It looks shiny but that doesn't seem to translate into sharper edges for me (as measured by the BESS tester anyway. As I mentioned before, I must be missing something or I need more skill or knowledge.
@@iSharpen maybe that an perfect sharpened blade can be too smooth? Maybe a setup with a carrot or tomato and a small weight ? That gives a cutting result. Like a project farm setup?
It may be that you reached the limit of the steel.
@@josephspratt2055 not sure about that. Zwilling put a lot of quality and effort into their Miyabi knives. I'd blame the operator for sure.
diamond plates 80 and 320 ... on what scale?
none of JIS, ANSI, FEPA-F, FEPA-P make any sense at all to me.
Tormek says 220 and 1000 ... on what scale
none of JIS, ANSI, FEPA-F, FEPA-P make any sense at all to me.
No one cares. It is what it is. No one else worries about. It just works.