So, the reason the doors in FNAF 4 don’t stay closed is gameplay balance. I know this. BUT I really enjoy the idea that the child (be it Dave or Mike) keeps the doors open because he gets in trouble for having them closed. To a young child, “there are monsters in the hallways that want to kill me” and “Dad yells at me for closing the door” would have equal weight when making decisions.
I wanna make a point defending BV's behaviors under BVRunaway. It actually lines up more with FNaF 4 than one might initially think. In that game, Bv actively tries to get away from danger and what he is scared of. He sees an employee in a suit? He runs the other way. He has the opportunity to escape Fredbear's, he immediately leaves and goes home. He only collapses and cries once he has nowhere to go or is scared by his brother. When running from the employee, he gets too close to the stage for comfort and decides to hide under the table. This is what we see in MM. He is escaping his room to avoid William's abuse and it will come home soon. He can't go out the front door because Michael is babysitting him and is in the living room. His only option is to escape through his window and run off to that place again (likely a place of comfort for him to escape the abuse).
Look at the two sprites of Mustard Man. We've got a blocky stocky one with a lighter color and a tall lanky one with weird limbs and a darker version of the same color. Where have we seen this before? Oh right. FNAF 2's Afton sprites. Seriously compare the two Yellow Guy/Orange Man sprites to the old Pink Guy/Purple Man sprites it's a dead ringer. People just got extremely hung up on the color while ignoring that the game was being developed during the Miketrap-Willtrap schism and the confirmation by Scott came as result of a theory Matpat made less than a month before 6. Scott didn't want to feed that confusion and it's not his fault the community moved on from it right before the game came out.
I really do like the explanation as to why Afton is yellow in the minigame and I don't think I've actually ever heard the proper context of it before, that is Scott trying to explain purple man is not really purple and to distinguish him from Mike. The only real complaint for this video that I have is a very minor one: the reason why Elizabeth's room would still be there if she's dead could be because that's how parents of dead kids often do. They don't have the heart to clean and renovate their dead child out of the picture. IMO the empty room really begs the question "where is the sister", which lends credibility to the theory that Elizabeth is already dead by the time of FNAF4. Or she could be out playing or in the daycare, or Mrs Aftom took custody, or it was the aliens, idk, I swear this franchise is no good to anyone's sanity.
Actually I believe Elizabeth is still alive during MM but dies at the start of FNAF 4. Notice how the the minigame's house is kept very simple with only one path, it isn't meant to be taken literal and it only exist to get a point/story event across. Similar to how in FNAF 4, Afton and Mike's room don't exist but we know it belongs to them thank you for coming to my TED talk
This whole 'A lot of gut reaction early theories this was Afton were correct, then people talked themselves out of it and spent 6 years chasing ghosts only to end up back at the original conclusion" thing reminds me of about a year and a half period (Late 2017 to Early 2019) where people were convinced Crying Child was Micheal Afton instead of him being Foxy Bro, despite that being so weird and convuluted to the point Scott had to make two whole books to get the correct message across and Matpat still misunderstood the truth initially. Why? Mostly because people utterly refused to consider the possibility we weren't playing as Crying Child in the FNAF 4 nights. This utter refusal is probably why Dream Theory took off instead of people reading the clues the correct way, and Scott really had to badger people in the head to get it. That in turn lead to people struggling to solve FNAF SL because they went in with bad assumptions and hadn't figured out Mike Schmidt = Fritz Smith = 3 Guard = Foxy Bro which was totally doable with only 1-4 and so ended up thinking we played as Afton. The fact people refused to consider 2 spirits could haunt one suit was also an issue and that's only finally finally being settled after also going on a half decade long circle loop. People were initially like "Crying Child being Puppet breaks the lore, Crying Child being Golden Freddy breaks the lore, therefore either the series is broken, he's nobody, or he becomes Mangle somehow maybe". and then got angry about him not being anything with lead to Dream Theory. This also made the Security Logbook harder. Just from a logical perspective with 3 alone, we have a Golden Freddy spirit freed in Happiness Day, and another one giving cake to Foxy in Stage 01. Those aren't the same guy.
The problem with this theory is that, in Sister Location, Hand Unit states that Circus Baby's Pizza World opened after a Freddy's location closed. If Elizabeth died before Dave (Crying Child), then Freadbear's would still be open when Circus Baby was created, which contradicts Hand Unit.
Circus Baby's Pizza World (SL Minigame/Start/End of Night Audio) was open for 1 day, but Circus Baby's Entertainment (Sister Location Gameplay) and Rentals is said to open after a Freddy Fazbear’s Pizza closed which is Either after, timeline order, 1983-1985 (FNaF 1 Location OG opening) 1987 (FNaF 2 Location) 1993 (FNaF 1 Location Gameplay Time) Hand Unit does not talk about Pizza World, only the Scott Games Teaser does, the Cancelled Due to Leaks one
@@DeskFanMan87even if hand unit is referring to the rental service we have evidence that the rental service opened shortly after pizza world closed. So the timeframe of your whole MM narrative would be incredibly tight. This would mean Dave and Charlie being killed, the Aftons moving out, ms afton leaving, and finally the MCI being killed, and closing down Freddy’s would happen in the timeframe of maybe a week to a month at most.
I believe MM takes place the night Charlie was murdered, and the feet is from that of Shadow Freddy who actually broke Michael’s Window.. the feet print could be from Shadow Freddy as we don’t see a trail of them, just a set of feet.
Honestly yellow guy and purple guy are such great color symbolism On the outside, his springbonnie suit, the trap: yellow, a happy joyful bright and fun color On the inside, William afton, the spring: purple, an evil mysterious and toxic color. And William is often related to the color yellow. Like in the maze minigame. And psychic friend fredbear
I don't really agree with cc (Dave) being the run away it don't really fit what we know about him I think Mike is the runaway and that "place" is cc grave
Mike running to the grave of Dave is fair interpretation, but I find the argument that Dave can’t be the runaway because he’s too scared to be kind of odd. Kids, heck, people change quickly all the time. Something clearly caused him to be the way he is in 4, what that specifically is I’m not brave enough to guess lol.
@@DeskFanMan87 yeaaa FNAF 4 is one of the most annoying games to try and solve Dave being the runaway is interesting but just don't really fit in my mind since we only seen the kid once lol I wished we got more of him so we can see him more instead of this kid who just got super unlucky in life
@@DeskFanMan87I think that Elizabeth is the runaway and Dave is in the mound, it fits better and gives him a reason to make the funtimes. Edit: the mound being Dave means that he could have caused the animatronic to appear outside Elizabeth’s window and maybe even lead her to his grave, even though William uses male pronouns to refer to the runaway, we already know that William was drunk that night so he could have forgotten that Dave was dead and thought he was Elizabeth.
For Elizabeth not being in MM, I actually have a few solutions to throw out. It seems like it’s around 8-10 on at night in the minigame, possibly a school night, so it’s probably her bedtime and she’s already fast asleep. Considering that I doubt the house is one living room and a huge hallway with one room, it’s likely not fully accurate, so she’s probably just in a different room we don’t see. Another possibility is that shes with Ms. Afton at the time. If we take immortal and the restless as a sign that the two weren’t on the best of terms, this might be one of those divorce custody things where sometimes the kid switches around which parent they live with. This is a bit of an assumption, but I think that’d make sense for this and even FNAF 4 (there’s also that therapy tape in SB about Vanessa’s dad and the court thing, which could either be a parallel that happens a lot with Vanessa or Glitchtrap memory stuff, but that’s relying on games long past Pizza sim so idk). As for the mound of dirt…. Honestly it’s probably just the chest. Whatever was meant to be in it I couldn’t say, we know it’s changed a few times, for all we know the mimics in there now for some reason, but if the minigames were meant to answer questions of the time, I guess that would at least tell us where it is? 😅
IMO the mound has to be either Elizabeth or Mrs. Afton, some comments have really swayed me. School night and the Vanessa tapes are good points to keep in mind though.
I feel like we’re missing something that solves the timeline for MM that’s a core part of Secret of the Mimic. I could see whatever inciting incident that took place either before or after fallfest there is what kickstarted his fascination with remnant and led to the creation of the funtimes making Elizabeth the first death.
Great video! My theory on explaining Midnight Motorist goes as follows (i would like to hear what do you all think about this): This minigame shows William Afton after he killed Charlie. The mound of dirt is an initial prototype for the underground bunker William would build years later (the one we see in SL) At this time, William had below this mound of dirt a small workshop where he was experimenting with robotics, to surpass Henry. The Crying Child would often escape home to go to this place where the Fredbear plush was. William was creating and improving the Fredbear plush as a way of controlling his son, but CC somehow discovered about this secret workshop of his father and would often go there to have time with the Fredbear plush, the only thing which bringed comfort to him. In the night of Midnight Motorist, Shadow Freddy manifested from Charlie's death, and lured CC out of his house, to see Charlie's body. CC became deeply traumatized from seeing it. William thinked that CC had gone to the mound of dirt again, but this time he wasn't there. CC come back traumatized, and often would have nightmares with Shadow Freddy. William had seen the animatronic footsteeps and somehow know about his son bizarre nightmares, so William suspected that there was something different going on, perhaps related to Charlie. Wanting to investigate more, he used the Fredbear plush to manipulate CC and increase his fears. The Bite of 83 happened. After that, the agony from CC give "life" to the plush, causing William to became even more fascinated with this spiritual manifestations related to emotions. So, he designed the nightmare experiments to impinge extreme fear on children, to see if he could discover what exactly happened to CC. Perhaps the bedroom used in the experiments were based of from Michael's room, because Mike was the one he used at first for the experiments
@@rednerdscience3278 I like the workshop idea, I just wish it was like a hatch in the ground or something instead of loose dirt. It’s cool to see we have similar thoughts about the FNAF 4 room being based off Mikes actual bedroom!
y'know...i have a potential explanation for the mound of dirt in the woods, and who's buried there. of course, this is based on a theory of my own (both Charlie's death and the MCI took place at least some point before the Fnaf 4 minigames), but i feel like there's some evidence that actually points to this. we know William drinks, and if MM is anything to go by, he likely also drunk drives. we know Susie's dog was hit by a car and killed. long story short, my personal theory is that there's not a person buried under that mound: It's Susie's Dog. the real nail in the coffin for me was when i asked myself the question that no one else seems to ask: How Exactly DID William Know About Susie's Dog?
I’ve had that idea before, you even got a yellow rabbit coming out of the ground in fruity maze, but since I believe the MCI to be later (I see you think it’s before FNAF 4) I’ve unfortunately moved away from the idea. I wish it would work cus I really like it but 🤷♂️
@@DeskFanMan87 yeah, i can see that. for me personally, i just think it happening, at the very least, before the Fnaf 4 minigames, actually makes a lot of sense. it definitely makes the Fnaf 4 minigames make sense to me (especially because. Pigtail Girl. i'm just gonna leave it there). but those are just my personal thoughts :]
16:01 - This reminds me of something I saw in another theory video (it was a brazillian one iirc) that theorized that Charlie's murder caused an ENORMOUS amount of agony, what unleashed Shadow Freddy in the first place. Shadow Freddy goes on to Afton's house, and lures Dave to the Fredbear's building, where Charlie had just died, making the poor kid witness it... and THAT goes on to traumatize him, make him a crying mess, and cause him fear of the animatronics, remember... *"What is seen in the shadows is easily misunderstood in the mind of a child"* (the Puppet was there, alongside Charlie's corpse, making Dave think the animatronic killed her). Furtherore, the reason Shadow Freddy goes on to meet SPECIFICALLY DAVE could be because Charlie and Dave were FRIENDS (yes, that's crazy ik, but hear me out, they are both sons of the co-owners of a pizzeria, they probably meet often while their dads are at work at the pizzeria, so it could be possible they developed a friendship there, and furthermore, that could have just made William HATE Henry and his daughter more... or maybe it held him back from doing stuff sooner bcuz of his son, idk... not really matters considering what happened later). And after witnessing his friend's death, the poor kid that LOVED the pizzeria (why would he go in "that place" again if he didnt like it?) started to fear it so much that we find him in *that* state in FNaF 4 That could also be whatever the Psychic Friend Freadbear meant with "Don't you remember what you saw?", as that would be William's way of manipulating his own son (using his trauma to controle him... litteraly)
I usually like listening to fnaf theory videos when I’m drawing and I just stumbled on this video in my recommended and WOW, your clearly a dedicated theorist and I love the way you narrate things, really brings you into the story :D
I’m more supeised that people don’t use the movie for Elizabeth being born later in the timeline as there she isn’t born( or is an infant) when garret is taken away
You and another person have made comments that make me want to do a follow up on this video just kinda reading through the comments here, because this is a great point. Honestly I’ll take any solid reason for Elizabeth to not be the mound, so I like this train of thought.
Alright i believe the Mound to be Mrs. Aftons grave. Why? Simplle you have to remember that FFPS is a game meant for clarifying stuff. Back when SL released a lot of people were wondering what the role of Mrs. Afton was. The most popular theory was that she was possessing ballora which FFPS debunks by proving Molten MCI. So i think Scott added the Mound (which we know to be a grave due to it's looks and TUG calling it a grave) to show Mrs. Aftons role in the story. She Has no role she dies early in the timeline before William kills someone.
But still great video, it's nice to see someone believing Mike to be the Couch potato and BV to be the runaway. Imo those 2 theories just seem REALLY obvious.
Oh that’s actually a solid point for Momma Afton mound, this is one of the better ones I’ve seen. You definitely just gave that idea more credit IMO, but for me it makes a tad more sense for the Afton minigame to be including the already established Afton characters we’ve met up to this point. Just my POV, but seriously props to you cus I did a double take at this😅
@@DeskFanMan87yeah I get that, my explanation at least for why Elizabeth isn't in Midnight motorists is because the minigame is simply not about her. People didn't really need a clarification on Elizabeth because we already knew everything we needed to know about her. (Except for her name but FFPS already confirms her name to be Elizabeth)
The main reason I’m not convinced of BVRunaway is because him seeing Charlie’s body kinda retcons what we know about BV’s fears because FNAF 4 already tells us that BV just misunderstood something simple and nothing in the game even connects his fears to the Puppet. Another problem I have is that if Afton didn’t want BV to run to Fredbear’s, why did the Aftons move near the diner after MM? So, to me, I mostly stick with MikeRunaway or the possibility that BV was just lured to the mound (who could just be Mrs. Afton) rather than the diner.
Yeah, I kinda danced around that in the video, should have just said it outright but I say I don’t know where Dave goes because I don’t think he goes to Fredbear’s and sees Charlie. Do I have another answer? Unfortunately no, but if he sees Charlie it kinda goes against the whole “misunderstood in mind of a child” thing. Though that is an out of game hint, so could have been changed. I do stick by WillPlush speaker, so him gaslighting Dave in 4 could actually make sense…….you got me thinking now, my head hurts.
@@DeskFanMan87 Well, if BVRunaway is true, I think Shadow Freddy could have taken BV to the mound, which could be Mrs. Afton’s grave under this interpretation. Although I’m not sure why, my guess is that SF wants to get agony from BV or something.
I mean it’s not just Charlie that he would see but also the puppet like wrapped around her or something. He’d probably think that it killed her, hence the fear of animatronics. Admittedly, the security puppet is a little different, but still. For the second point, it’s harder to say exactly; I think it’s probably just that he didn’t want to change plans for a new home closer to work just because of his kid (especially if the SL bunker really is right under his house), so he took precautions with the cameras, stoking his fears with the plushbear, and forcing Micheal to look after him.
imo purpleman is just evil. no motivation to start the killing. one thing i cant understand is who ran away in midnight motorist. and if the gray guy is really mike, why is he being "good" or worried about the crying child?
Even if Afton was a psycho trying to just kidnap and kill kids, Elizabeth dies and possesses Baby, and THAT causes him to study soul juice, it STILL runs into the issue of Charlie being all but confirmed to be that LAST death at this point. Unless the DCI happened.
Tbh it makes sense for elizabeth to die before the mci but after the death of charlie and cc Just like the novels The 8 bit minigame numbers could give us a date: January 7, 1985
@@cake1987-cm7yb I agree, I really don’t like the chance of her being before everything. Heck, my first theory video has her before the MCI and after Charlie and CC. I’m probably going to do a follow up video on this just reading y’all’s comments, because there’s a lot of great points so far.
@@DeskFanMan87 “The most terrible accidents sometimes bear the most beautiful fruits,” he said, as if to himself. “Re-creating the accident-that is the duty and the honor of science. To replicate the experiment, and obtain the same result. I give my life to this experiment, piece by piece.” Elizabeth is treated like garbage on TFC, so the accident is her and the beautiful fruits are the mci
There are Faz-Tokens that have engravings that tell us that Freddy Fazbear's Pizza had opened in 1983. Therefore, I'm not sure that Elizabeth could not have died before Crying Child.
I kinda want to wait for Secret of the Mimic at this point before saying things can’t exist before 1983, which is a rule I used to really like to follow. But I dunno anymore.
@@DeskFanMan87 Waiting for The Secrets of the Mimic is extremely fair. Who knows what that game could reveal about the early days of FNAF. Keep up the good work. Look forward to your perspectives and theories!
What if it is BOTH williams car, but at the same time, william is also the one kidnapping the child. This way we are accounting for the yandere chicas description of william kidnapping a child after trying to break in, and then finding a window, WHILE ALSO accounting for the fact the springbonnie decoration is in the midnight motor in FLAF what if the purple car is indeed williams, BUT yellow person is not william, but instead Mrs afton, coming home in her husbands car, only to find crying child isnt opening his door, she then walks to the back of the house, to find that the window is broken,her son was missing.. or kidnapped? This could be an explanation of crying child experiencing fnaf 4, since he recognises nightmare fredbear in the logbook, replying with "Im scared", he was kidnapped by william, and sent to the games version of the dittophobia bunker, michael could potentially ALSO have seen the nightmares, since he after being injected with remnant using the scooper, experienced the memories of the dead children, one of them being crying child.
@@scaleonkhan183 if jr's is a bar maybe she became an alcoholic to deal with her grief over cc, or if cc isn't dead yet, sometimes people just be alcoholics regardless
3:20 "-that one piece of the jigsaw puzzle nobody knew how to fit in properly" Ah yes, the ONE PIECE that doesn't fit anywhere neatly. The SINGULAR event nobody knows where to put in the timeline.
I agree with most of it except the Elizabeth part, I think the "buried" person could be Mrs. Afton, the reason Elizabeth wouldn't come out would be because she was too young at that time and she is asleep, if we take into account the data that the novels show, Elizabeth was barely a kindergartener in 84-85, if we subtract that, she should be 2 or 3 years old at most in 1983, It wouldn't be unreasonable to think that he was sleeping. That aside, I do agree with BV being the person running away and Mike being the person on the couch, watching TV, the fact that his and William's color palettes pretty similar to FNAF 4 text color must definitely be an indication to take into account.
I could see it swinging either way, momma Afton or Elizabeth, but imo Liz just makes more contextual sense. With that it’s all the established Afton characters in the same minigame. The age is a good callout though.
@@DeskFanMan87 Yes, but having it be Elizabeth would complicate the timeline issue a bit, especially when the novels establish that Elizabeth died shortly before the MCI.
Another great video from desk the fan yet again. I do agree with most of your interpretation of midnight motorist and it was great to see your view on aftonMM. Though I think that the mound is and the footprints is coming from springbonnie, like the mound being the burrow for the yellow rabbit like in fruity maze and the footprints coming from William in the springbonnie suit to scare bv from him running away to fredbears. For my two cents on bv runaway i think it makes sense since I think that the lore-keeper minigames is kinda like a continuation of the fnaf 3 mini-games with the ending resembling the fnaf 3 good ending. And the fnaf 3 minigames focus on the MCI kids, bv, and Charlie. Fruity maze focus on the MCI, security puppet focus on Charlie, so I think that midnight motorist would focus on bv hence why midnight motorist is connected to fnaf 4. And makes sense why midnight motorist would connect to Charlie death in security puppet. Like bv running away from home to fredbears and William stopping him from doing that is like a inverse to how Henry built the security puppet in order to make sure that Charlie doesn’t run to the exit at fredbears. Anyways great video as always and can wait for the next one.
Whats the likelihood that Charlie's body could be in the mound? If afton left Jr's after causing a problem while drunk and went to freddy's ran her over (especially with the crazy driving in the mini game) and he just hid the body in a hard to find clearing? Why hide your child somewhere isolated and not the coworkers kid you just killed when your business depends on his work. Then i could just pass her off as going missing. She possessed the puppet but a body had to be left over 🤔. Dave could have saw him burying her and could even have told henry. If he went vack to the place.
Considered it, but like you said the body being left in the Security Puppet minigame makes me believe it’s unlikely, especially since it seems Will has already sped off leaving tire marks.
Great video! I agree with all the basics: the motorist Afton, couch person Mike, and runaway Dave. Those first two had elements that made their identities pretty clear, imo. The rationale for the footprints being Shadow Freddy also works well. With Nightmarionne and Nightmare being interchangeable in FNAF 4 and the Puppet being kept in Lefty (a black-colored bear) I think the existence of Shadow Freddy is linked to the death of Henry's daughter. Without further evidence I can't agree to the Funtimes existing that early so I don't think Elizabeth could be dead yet. She could just be absent because she isn't relevant to the story of MM. To add my own theorizing, I'm actually leaning towards the footprints still being Springbonnie. We know that the runaway had ran away at least once before, potentially as a habit, so I'm thinking that William was using the suit to stand outside the window and scare the kid to stay in. The footprints wouldn't be from the same night, that's just the spot William stands in. He couldn't do it that night because 1. he was killing and 2. it was raining. Also I don't have an explanation for the dirt pile but to be fair, it's a pile of dirt.
Fair enough interpretation, but for another possible clue as to what Midnight Motorist is, I'd recommend looking at the numbers on the dice in the Midnight Motor in FLAF
Maybe this is just coincidence but I think it's interesting that in the Halloween update of fnaf 4, Nightmare is replaced with the nightmare-puppet. if shadow freddy really is the footprints outside the house and lead Dave to Charlie's death, I think that this could be further evidence for that interpretation.
Honestly I think you may be overthinking things at the ending of the vid a bit because well... it is MIDNIGHT motorist. Chances are good Elizabeth would have just been in bed at the time and that's why we don't see her lmao. That noted it is possible she was already dead so who knows! At this point I think this franchise needs more "The Week Before" type books that genuinely spell out the solutions to certain old mysteries that are just not possible to concretely solve with the game material alone.
The dirt mound is inside of a gray, building-ish outline. I think the outline is meant to clarify that there is a) an underground bunker, b) a building planned to be made, or c) a building that previously existed, now destroyed. I can't figure out which one it is, but I think that's the utility of the dirt mound and we might have co-opted it to mean something more violent or horror-related than the true intention. I don't know though!
I think specifically 2 or 3 are good options, but honestly it would have made more sense if there just wasn’t the pile, the outline on its own would make me believe it more.
@@DeskFanMan87 To me it's pretty simple: - The minigame takes place after William murdered Charlie in a drunken rage, most likely due to either the death of the CC or Elizabeth, depending on you think died first and who's corpse the unmarked grave contains (doesn't really matter in the context of the minigame, it could be both for all we know lol). William getting drunk all the time after the deaths of the CC & Elizabeth could explain why he isn't allowed in JR's, you know, a bar. - Orange guy is William, more specifically how other people see him (when he isn't committing evil acts or is simply cloaked in shadows, in the same vain as "What's seen in shadows is easily misunderstood in the mind of a child"). - The TV watcher is Ms. Afton, who is trying to protect Michael but not outright think of him as innocent due to the bite. - The runaway is Michael, which would explain William's aggressiveness to whoever is the runaway (not JUST him being drunk). - Michael potentially runs off to a Freddy's location because of an "animatronic" that seems to know & help Michael (maybe Shadow Bonnie, given his involvement in the Happiest Day).
@@sillydani106 since the Scott interview and how he answered about the box, I don’t know if I believe it’s a physical thing anymore. Shizu’s explanation does make a lot of sense though and if the box is real, that’s what I’d go with in my narrative unless there’s a better alternative. Really like the shattered plush angle.
I think this answers "Daves" remember what you saw.. He saw Yupple Guy kill that person and bury them. MOST LIKELY Dressed as SpringTrap. Thats why Dave never put 2+2 Together and he was scared of the Animatronics.. and NOT his father. It would also give a reason for William to Withdraw from being around his son, Dave. He felt guilty.
Shadow Freddy Origins theory; What if, like in the silver eyes, Afton survived a spring lock failure very, very early in the timeline... While wearing the Fredbear suit. He survives, but his agony of the experience "spawns" Shadow Freddy and HE SEES IT and then that triggers his... "research", we'll call it. This could explain why the "shadows" are weird; what if they aren't spirits/souls at all and so they don't "embody" a specific persons wants, traits or anything? Maybe, being nothing but agony, they then spawn whenever there's just a lot of activity in the area? The Follow Me events seem to be a lot of activity suddenly occurring in a building that's been shut down for a while; suddenly there's stuff going on, people are here... Shadow Freddy materializes and irritates the physical haunted objects into action.
But where did shadow freddy come from, the best theory I know is that shadow freddy came from the agony of the bite of ‘83 but that contradicts this theory
Shadow Freddy would spawn from Charlie’s death at Fredbear’s under this narrative. Withered Circle just released a video that made a great case for Shadow Bonnie to be the one here instead though.
Well, we’re talking about a minigame in a game that ends in fire, so TECHNICALLY this is the perfect time to get heated. (I’m just trying to justify it but this isn’t working)
Ok finished the video. First off, another BANGER from my favorite fnaf theory channel. Great job as always. You bring up some great points. Personally I still think the mound is a purposely open mystery to leave room for future games. I think that if Secret of the Mimic reveals a motivation for William and gives us more info on shadow Freddy I could finally accept this as canon. Would also help if we get another appearance of yellow Afton in the new game but that's hopeful thinking. Its still possible that Scott removes the bunny from the midnight motor or changes the name to reference save him instead and then it all falls apart.
@@Gamer_Dylan_6 glad you liked it! For some reason the mound being an open mystery is something I’ve never even considered, I actually don’t mind that. Lots of people so far screaming Mrs. Afton, but like I said that’s one of those things that just “fits cus it can” not “cus it makes much sense with what we have”. But it just being an open ended thing for some reason I feel more comfortable with.
12:50 YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! IT WAS SAID THAT YOU WOULD SOLVE AFTONMM, NOT MAKE IT VAGUE. BRING BALANCE TO THE COMMUNITY, NOT GO FOR THE CRAZY THEORIES. I’m joking. I’ll be honest, even if I don’t agree with what you said in this video, I highly enjoyed it. With FFPS trying to tie up lose ends, I want to share my personal thoughts on what Midnight Motorist is supposed to imply: - Afton is abusive, which debunks WillCare/WillGrief - William lost control over Fredbear’s after the Big Bite, which made him furious towards Henry because of Henry not being harmed and still owns the property since it’s running down. This makes William drive to Fredbear’s to strangle Charlie mainly to hurt Henry over wild jealously. - Shadow Freddy is born from Charlie’s murder. Henry said “I couldn’t save you then” and this quote makes me believe Henry was the Freddy mascot in TCTTC minigame. This is where Shadow Freddy’s birth was and this makes him follow William wherever he goes (including Mike) - Speaking of Mike, I believe that Mike is the runaway because if Shadow Freddy is the one standing in the back, then he’s picking a pickle on Mike. Which makes sense due to how Nightmare is part of Mike’s dreams. - And with “That place”, I have a feeling William was referring to Fredbear’s. And Mike would have the memory of finding Charlie’s body, which makes him have the similarities to Clara- now why? Because Mike believes everything is crazy and that no one would take him literal since he’s responsible for the Big Bite. - This gives William a motivation to create the Nightmare chambers. If Mike is experiencing nightmares about Fredbear, with BV having nightmares about the animatronics in the first place, then William would start finding out if BV is actually haunting him and that he’s giving a sign that there’s something worse than death for Willy. So Willy started experimenting on fear, which led him to believe Charlie now possesses the Puppet with him being aware of ghosts. - Mrs. Afton is a thing. And with her watching TV, I could assume that Mike had developed a similar personality to his mother while having the looks of his father. But is Mrs. Afton herself really important? More likely: No. I could imagine that after Charlie’s death, she left due to children dying and Fredbear’s being dead. - And since Midnight Motorist was all about the Aftons, I believe the narrative of this minigame is supposed to reflect the story of FFPS. It’s the relationship of both the father and the son during the aftermath of what caused their journeys to began with. And FFPS is where it’s showing both the past and the present of Mike and William’s relationship and character arcs. That’s all I could say about it. I know FFPS doesn’t have to be narratively satisfying since I’m too ranty with the lore. I’m not even a BVRunaway but I’m getting a little hesitant with it being brought up now that Flaf confirmed AftonMM, I just think MikeRunaway makes more sense mainly because of how it’s symbolizing the protagonist and antagonist in FFPS’s modern story (With Puppet minigame, it’s with Henry and Lefty; as Fruity Maze, I might say it’s more info on the MCI and how it’s supposed to sympathize them as Molten Freddy). I feel like it’s nice to get more character info about the Aftons and how it’s reflecting the story of FFPS. With AftonMM being confirmed, I’m completely glad that we got an answer for Midnight Motorist rather than teasing everyone who was wrong. I’m just glad that the debate is done, but not yet. Anyways, just here to share my opinions- but I’m totally shock over your conclusions in this video 😅 Edit: Also, Congrats on the FuhNaff stream. Glad to see you there
This is great, seriously, but man I just struggle with accepting things like Mrs. Afton, Mikerunaway, ect. Narratively I like it, but it’s just the evidence I struggle with. For me it just makes sense to have all of the established Afton characters be included in some form for the minigame, so at that point it’s taking what the game gives us and just matching characters to ones we know. I almost even said Jr’s Green Guy was Henry to connect to Charlie’s green band, but with Jrs bar theory it just makes no sense. And it was cool to see you at the live stream! Saw ya in the live chat.
@@DeskFanMan87 Understandable, the struggle with accepting happened to me with things like Glitch/Burntrap being Mimic, what narrative I had for SB, Frights and Tales, and so on. I had change of opinions to find out what could be the story of FNAF. I don’t really think Midnight Motorist has to have all of the Aftons for that specific story. We never had any appearance of Mrs. Afton, while she’s not important, she’s never given any attention for a big story like this. I just look at the lore from what makes sense to me and how the tone of the characters and storyline fit with the lore. And even if you argue Mrs. Afton has no relevance of MikeRunaway grudges you, I have some level of thoughts: Mrs. Afton could have some relevance like Phone Guy, characters who get involved but don’t have a bigger impact on the story overall. I understand why she’s not important, she’s never acknowledged- But I’ll be shocked if she’s ever appeared in future games. And MikeRunaway, I’ve always had a hesitant with using colors to solve the lore, remember when people said Fredbear Plush has a different speaker in Night 6 due to text color? That’s kinda my problem with using color for lore. I could see the Couch Potato to be Mrs. Afton with a gown, with the gray connecting her to Michael (which would put some weight on Michael being like his mom). But with the Runaway, I think it makes sense that the player and his son would have an impact on what’s show in FFPS. It’s kinda like how Star Wars uses parallels to show a connection between both Prequels and OG Trilogy. It’s fine to disagree though. I hope you do more streams, it’s fun with you around
The grave could very well be the grave of the mother who William murdered also being the catalyst for his evil. It could even be a combination of this and the spring lock theory u present.
Baby says herself that she doesn't know why or how she killed Elizabeth as we know from her optional dialogue on night 3 of Sister Location and if William was kidnapping kids with Baby then why would William do so? No, Baby's dialogue implies it was an accident, a malfunction with her ice cream claw, the Springlock animatronics were also know to malfunction afterall. Baby has no reason to lie as this is an optional bit if dialogue, she wanted us to trust her so we do what she says, her being desperate to leave as well as stuck with all her thoughts and being torchured with shocks would heavily imply she just wants freedom. She also obviously is circus themed and her being there before Charlie and Dave dies means she existed as an animatronic before Freddy and the gang thus meaning the Funtimes shouldn't exist then as what woukd they be based off of then. So Baby (and possibly Ballora) were made before or near the start of 1983 with the funtimes coming afterwards, so that's another reason why William wouldn't be kidnapping at that point. With all this and literally everything else i agree with in the video, Elizabeth’s death is why Charlie was killed to make sure if William lost his dauther the Henry would to and seeing Baby's eyes change later motivates him to kidnap, kill and experiment. Dave goes to the grave with Shadow Freddy taking him there, possibly sees Charlie dead next to the Puppet creating his fear of tye animatronics and at least 5 days later gets bitten and then slowly dies from his injuries then William does his thing.
I mean, couldn't you say that the grave is Mrs Afton/the mother under this? I feel like that makes considerably more sense than Elizabeth if BV is still alive and Charlie just died. And if you are going to say that she's important enough to use her to explain the house change, i don't see why this would be out of the question.
It could, but like I said it’s one of those “it can fit here so why not” sort of things. I don’t even like the whole “she keeps the big house” thing, but it does jump out at me that Afton specifically says that the house in MM is HIS house. It gives that idea just the slight edge of legitimacy to me. This is a theory overall just trying to take what the minigame is saying at face value without trying to completely make it fit, like I realllly dislike Baby’s being earlier, but with Elizabeth being the grave you all of a sudden have every established Afton character up to this point in the same minigame.
Hmm it kinda makes sence taht cisrcus baby was earlier in the beginig, probably the game was made to fill in the gap Scot didnt take in azount in the first games, but how, for some reason there is no grave for elisabeth.
Hmmm im a little confused because I thought the footprints would belong to spring bonnie because William is trying to scare his kids away from the animatronics :>. But for thinking mike is the TV person and not Mrs. Afton is probably correct. One other thing is tho why would William have motive for killing charlie and how would he know about remnent before he killed charlie? He has no motive to build the funtimes yet... And thats why idk if the tv person is micheal or Wife Afton or not. Im so confused help me chat :(
probably michael, and he killed charlie in anger after his wife died, he was angry henry (charlies dad, and his partner) had a happy life and kid, and he (william) didnt.
Incredible video. I think for me, the most difficult part is trying to find out WHY cassidy is the special one. My best guess is because she was killed in a springlock failure... but why? and why does that matter to the story? And it just feels like there's a much simpler explanation that I'm just missing. Of course there are the small details you pointed out like 'who are the shadows' 'what did the crying child see' and 'whose the fredbear plush' but TOYSNHK is the one I just don't get. If it wasn't for that detail the story would make 10 thousand times more sense edit: I always viewed the dirtpile as the beginning of building the fnaf 4 house (the gameplay one) but you raise great points
Personally, I don't think the Crying Child/Dave/Garrett, whatever his name is, is not the runaway kid. Because it defeats the whole purpose of why he was scared, Misunderstood. He misunderstood something that was seen in the shadows and easily got scared and cried. If he saw a creepy purple bear or the dead body of Charlie (which some people think.) That is not misunderstood that he can be bullied by that?!?!? To me, I feel like Michael is the runaway kid and saw Shadow Freddy.
Probably what he "misunderstood" (following that logic) was who caused Charlie's death, in his eyes it was an animatronic who caused his death, because he did not see the complete scenario, he only saw a little girl with an animatronic on top of her, so he would blame the animatronics and that would be the reason why he is so afraid of them. He mistakenly thought it was an animatronic who kills her and not William (bc he didn't see the whole scene), plus that would explain why there are so many rumors in FNAF 4 about animatronics and hiding bodies in suits.
@@alesm9666 But like, what would they make rumors about a dead child being killed by a animatronic, wouldn't that make people scared and possibly shut down Fredbear's for that?! And also get bullied and not get serious about that?? it's a dead body!!? no matter who the cause of that?? And William (Orange Guy) doesn't seem to be panicking, he just seems annoyed by him going "that place again". I'm sorry, but I just don't see that to be the case and it's ruined the whole premise of his fears, being misunderstood by something that is harmless. NOT A DEAD BODY, NOR WHO THE CAUSE OF THIS! Because many people don't take it seriously and make bullshit rumors about it as if that's harmless.
@@fungames1631 Throughout the FNAF saga there are rumors of deaths, after the MCI there are and still people went to the location of 87, in help wanted the game itself is about covering up the events with unfounded rumors. William referring to going to "that place again" may refer to the fact that he used to go to Fredbears, which is why he would (hypothetically) stumble upon the scene of Charlotte's death.
@@alesm9666 Okay, you have a point there. But tbh, I don't think that is what Scott is referring to, and I just don't think that C.C. saw Charlie's Dead Body as his misunderstanding of the killer because that just contradicts how other people act in FNaF 4, as they are not taking it seriously. Personally, I think we already saw what C.C. misunderstood in the shadows as just William putting someone in a Springbonnie suit Easter egg as it's telling that someone is putting on a spring-lock suit and C.C. saw in the shadows and probably other kids as they made rumors about it to make it scary. Again, this is just my opinion, and I'm very sorry if I was mean or if I lash out this way. I just really don't like that theory. And I think Michael being the runaway kid fits better for his character.
@@fungames1631 No problem! I don't 100% agree with this theory either, but I see it as a possibility considering the different interpretations that can be given to the phrase and that at least, narratively speaking, it would be very interesting Regarding the other thing, I'm not sure if CC's trauma is related to seeing the workers put on the springlocks suits considering that in the minigame he doesn't show any reaction to the easter egg but It's totally valid if you see it that way and I see your vision, if I'm honest I think CC's trauma could be related to something he saw at the fallfest (because of the implications in TCoD), but it's my personal opinion hehe.
Here's a thought you probably won't see since it's four hours late and UA-camrs only notice the first hour of comments... What if the grave is Michael and Dave's mother. Hear me out. Michael and Dave are Brunette, so is William Afton if the books are to be believed. Elizabeth is a Ginger. What if Elizabeth is Michael and Dave's half-sister? It would explain the grave. It would also explain the drunken nights as JRs. What's worse, what if Mrs. Afton was killed in a car accident after William got drunk? That's why he's not allowed in. It would explain Elizabeth. And... Mrs. Afton may have been pregnant with a girl which explains the girl's room in FNAF 4. William sees Charlie as the daughter he never had and his rage at himself makes him take it out on her. Especially since Charlie is a brunette as well. Crazy idea, right?
Boom, within 10 minute reply! And yeah, crazy ideas indeed, but cool ones. The car crash thing is a bit much for me, maybe if there was a loose tire or something also in the clearing to indicate I’d be more comfortable with it but it’s still not impossible.
Being redheaded is a recessive gene. You can have two parents who don’t have red hair have a red headed child - it’s fairly common. Likewise, we don’t even know Mrs. Afton’s hair color anyway - she could’ve easily been a redhead. Either way, Elizabeth’s hair color is by no means solid evidence of being a half-sibling.
@@tritter15 this may be true, but the idea I am going with, and have been since MatPat's three episode timeline, is the possibility that William has been married twice with Elizabeth being younger. This would give a lot of leeway for Sister Location, it explains why Elizabeth nor Mrs. Afton were not around in FNAF 4, and it might help explain why, in FNAF 6 Michael is sitting in his chair watching the Immortal and the Restless while Dave escapes. Also to @DeskFanMan87 the idea of the Car Accident is that Mrs. Afton was buried after the accident in the plot of land not at the same time. People do bury their loved ones close to home.
@@silverbullet1620 There’s no evidence for a second marriage, nor is there evidence to suggest that Elizabeth was born after Mrs. Afton’s death - which the death itself doesn’t even have strong evidence for. Just a grave whose origins are unknown that could be speculated to be Mrs. Afton’s - but could also be Elizabeth’s, a missing child, some have even suggested the box itself. The tl;dr, is that you’d have to first establish that Elizabeth was born AFTER Mrs. Afton left (or died) in the first place. And we don’t have any evidence for that.
I never understood why people assume the person watching TV is Mike. He's always been characterized as abusive and a bully to Dave, why would he tell William to give him a break?
@@aromaladyellie He is literally laughing with his friends moments before Fredbear kills Dave, and only does what he does after the fact - I assume to redeem himself.
my brother was also a bully to me, but the thing with siblings is that shit changes on a dime. Some days bullies don’t bully as hard. teenagers are just like that. it’s very plausible for Mike to acknowledge dave having a rough day and deciding he’s has enough and doesn’t need his dads shit.
And I thought the orange guy was Henry because lf his shirt, Aston stole his car, killed Charlie and made everyone think it was Henry 😂😂😂 (just dumb shi, don’t attack me pls)
Well considering it was(/is?) theorized that Henry was convicted instead of William thanks to the Newspapers in FNaF 1, it's honestly not too farfetched. Though in the end that was just a theory on what we had to go by at the time.
I still think the midnight motorist guy is still an MCI parent who wound up getting a bad rental car that was Williams. The fnaf movie has William doing different odd jobs to assist in his murders... Is it time for the goofy Afton rental car salesman arc! I'm down for it. 😅
I doubt Dave would talk to William the way the Tv person does. Technically he does watch tv briefly in FNAF 4, but that vs the protagonist we spent a week with watching TV, I think the latter wins by default. And him watching tv is emphasized again by the Survival Logbook.
I just need to say this, The crying child is not the runaway, it's Michael And Michael isn't the person sitting on the couch watching TV Siresquawks made a video about it a year ago and in the beginning he said "I solved FNAF, deal with it!" Plus people who mostly runaway from home are mostly pre-teens or teenagers, not little kids
In the books, 8-year-old Timmy runs away from his grandparents' house which is located in the middle of nowhere, it's not that far-fetched to think that CC would escape from home, especially when it's a place where he receives mistreated, it is a natural behavior of children, not just adolescents.
I have a Fnaf Theory with no evidence: Sammy Emily was kidnapped and tortured as an experiment by William Afton and when he was done with him he let Michael Afton do the Bite of 83 prank only for Michael to regret his actions and bring Sammy Emily to the hospital with a deactivated Funtime Freddy for emotional support only for Funtime Freddy to steal away Sammy Emily’s dead body after he went flatlining in the hospital. Only evidence I actually do have is that The Crying Child was kidnapped by William Afton in the Fnaf movie and that William Afton kidnapped Charlie Emily in the Silver Eyes trilogy, but no mention of who exactly William Afton kidnaps in Midnight Motorist because it’s implied he did kidnap someone just not really whom exactly he kidnapped. The only other evidence besides all that is of course Dittophobia (apologies for misspelling) where William Afton “supposedly” kidnapped a child named Rory and he used to the Nightmare Gas from sister location on Rory to make him hallucinate mannequins in what seems to be a bunker of some kind(what everyone thought was the Afton House). In Dittophobia it’s said Rory was in that place for over a decade, but it feels as though for The Crying Child that either the experiment was interrupted or something bad happened… I’m leaning towards the “something bad that happened” was The Bite of 1983. That’s it, that’s all I got. Have a nice day. 😅
Oh wow that is a lot of pieces put in a very different order than I’ve ever heard. I actually kinda like the kidnapping angle, but I dunno about the rest. Still cool tho.
The only weird thing of the theory is that the only reason we could think of William being Orange guy is the little rabbit head in the car, something we just see in five laps at fredy's, and it could just be a reference. Because FLAF is not canon right? RIGHT???
@@RavenZombieX my conclusions are mostly the same, but I mean I hope that they would. We wouldn’t solve anything if everyone had a completely different answer. I believe I did add a new angle to AftonMM, explaining why he would be Yellow, ect. The analysis of Scott’s reply to MatPat is a part I’m extremely proud of, because the context around that time is something I think people have forgotten. And anytime I do get direct inspiration from another creator, I always make it a point to reference them, either linking their specific video or their channel. My rule is that if I hear something from someone I will reference them. As far as the mound….that’s to be covered more later (get it, COVERED, cus it’s a dirt pile….)
So, the reason the doors in FNAF 4 don’t stay closed is gameplay balance. I know this. BUT I really enjoy the idea that the child (be it Dave or Mike) keeps the doors open because he gets in trouble for having them closed. To a young child, “there are monsters in the hallways that want to kill me” and “Dad yells at me for closing the door” would have equal weight when making decisions.
What if the dirt pile is Williams secret stash of the entire Fazbear Frights novel collection
Lmaoo
Is the pile big enough for that?
I wanna make a point defending BV's behaviors under BVRunaway. It actually lines up more with FNaF 4 than one might initially think. In that game, Bv actively tries to get away from danger and what he is scared of. He sees an employee in a suit? He runs the other way. He has the opportunity to escape Fredbear's, he immediately leaves and goes home.
He only collapses and cries once he has nowhere to go or is scared by his brother. When running from the employee, he gets too close to the stage for comfort and decides to hide under the table.
This is what we see in MM. He is escaping his room to avoid William's abuse and it will come home soon. He can't go out the front door because Michael is babysitting him and is in the living room. His only option is to escape through his window and run off to that place again (likely a place of comfort for him to escape the abuse).
That’s a really solid point!
Look at the two sprites of Mustard Man. We've got a blocky stocky one with a lighter color and a tall lanky one with weird limbs and a darker version of the same color. Where have we seen this before? Oh right. FNAF 2's Afton sprites. Seriously compare the two Yellow Guy/Orange Man sprites to the old Pink Guy/Purple Man sprites it's a dead ringer.
People just got extremely hung up on the color while ignoring that the game was being developed during the Miketrap-Willtrap schism and the confirmation by Scott came as result of a theory Matpat made less than a month before 6. Scott didn't want to feed that confusion and it's not his fault the community moved on from it right before the game came out.
I really do like the explanation as to why Afton is yellow in the minigame and I don't think I've actually ever heard the proper context of it before, that is Scott trying to explain purple man is not really purple and to distinguish him from Mike. The only real complaint for this video that I have is a very minor one: the reason why Elizabeth's room would still be there if she's dead could be because that's how parents of dead kids often do. They don't have the heart to clean and renovate their dead child out of the picture. IMO the empty room really begs the question "where is the sister", which lends credibility to the theory that Elizabeth is already dead by the time of FNAF4. Or she could be out playing or in the daycare, or Mrs Aftom took custody, or it was the aliens, idk, I swear this franchise is no good to anyone's sanity.
Sanity? What’s that??
Actually I believe Elizabeth is still alive during MM but dies at the start of FNAF 4. Notice how the the minigame's house is kept very simple with only one path, it isn't meant to be taken literal and it only exist to get a point/story event across. Similar to how in FNAF 4, Afton and Mike's room don't exist but we know it belongs to them
thank you for coming to my TED talk
This whole 'A lot of gut reaction early theories this was Afton were correct, then people talked themselves out of it and spent 6 years chasing ghosts only to end up back at the original conclusion" thing reminds me of about a year and a half period (Late 2017 to Early 2019) where people were convinced Crying Child was Micheal Afton instead of him being Foxy Bro, despite that being so weird and convuluted to the point Scott had to make two whole books to get the correct message across and Matpat still misunderstood the truth initially.
Why? Mostly because people utterly refused to consider the possibility we weren't playing as Crying Child in the FNAF 4 nights. This utter refusal is probably why Dream Theory took off instead of people reading the clues the correct way, and Scott really had to badger people in the head to get it. That in turn lead to people struggling to solve FNAF SL because they went in with bad assumptions and hadn't figured out Mike Schmidt = Fritz Smith = 3 Guard = Foxy Bro which was totally doable with only 1-4 and so ended up thinking we played as Afton.
The fact people refused to consider 2 spirits could haunt one suit was also an issue and that's only finally finally being settled after also going on a half decade long circle loop. People were initially like "Crying Child being Puppet breaks the lore, Crying Child being Golden Freddy breaks the lore, therefore either the series is broken, he's nobody, or he becomes Mangle somehow maybe". and then got angry about him not being anything with lead to Dream Theory. This also made the Security Logbook harder. Just from a logical perspective with 3 alone, we have a Golden Freddy spirit freed in Happiness Day, and another one giving cake to Foxy in Stage 01. Those aren't the same guy.
The problem with this theory is that, in Sister Location, Hand Unit states that Circus Baby's Pizza World opened after a Freddy's location closed. If Elizabeth died before Dave (Crying Child), then Freadbear's would still be open when Circus Baby was created, which contradicts Hand Unit.
The rental service opened after Freddy’s closes, not Pizza World.
Circus Baby's Pizza World (SL Minigame/Start/End of Night Audio) was open for 1 day, but Circus Baby's Entertainment (Sister Location Gameplay) and Rentals is said to open after a Freddy Fazbear’s Pizza closed which is Either after, timeline order, 1983-1985 (FNaF 1 Location OG opening) 1987 (FNaF 2 Location) 1993 (FNaF 1 Location Gameplay Time)
Hand Unit does not talk about Pizza World, only the Scott Games Teaser does, the Cancelled Due to Leaks one
@@DeskFanMan87even if hand unit is referring to the rental service we have evidence that the rental service opened shortly after pizza world closed. So the timeframe of your whole MM narrative would be incredibly tight. This would mean Dave and Charlie being killed, the Aftons moving out, ms afton leaving, and finally the MCI being killed, and closing down Freddy’s would happen in the timeframe of maybe a week to a month at most.
I believe MM takes place the night Charlie was murdered, and the feet is from that of Shadow Freddy who actually broke Michael’s Window.. the feet print could be from Shadow Freddy as we don’t see a trail of them, just a set of feet.
Also, forgot to add this but this may be how William discovered Remnant.
Honestly yellow guy and purple guy are such great color symbolism
On the outside, his springbonnie suit, the trap: yellow, a happy joyful bright and fun color
On the inside, William afton, the spring: purple, an evil mysterious and toxic color.
And William is often related to the color yellow. Like in the maze minigame. And psychic friend fredbear
I don't really agree with cc (Dave) being the run away it don't really fit what we know about him I think Mike is the runaway and that "place" is cc grave
Mike running to the grave of Dave is fair interpretation, but I find the argument that Dave can’t be the runaway because he’s too scared to be kind of odd. Kids, heck, people change quickly all the time. Something clearly caused him to be the way he is in 4, what that specifically is I’m not brave enough to guess lol.
@@DeskFanMan87 yeaaa FNAF 4 is one of the most annoying games to try and solve Dave being the runaway is interesting but just don't really fit in my mind since we only seen the kid once lol I wished we got more of him so we can see him more instead of this kid who just got super unlucky in life
He could have been a rebellious brat prior to him seeing Charlie's dead body with Shadow Freddy and The Puppet.
@@DeskFanMan87I think that Elizabeth is the runaway and Dave is in the mound, it fits better and gives him a reason to make the funtimes. Edit: the mound being Dave means that he could have caused the animatronic to appear outside Elizabeth’s window and maybe even lead her to his grave, even though William uses male pronouns to refer to the runaway, we already know that William was drunk that night so he could have forgotten that Dave was dead and thought he was Elizabeth.
@@RogerMollet Sorry, but William and the chair person use "he/him" pronouns to adress the runaway, so it can't be a girl.
Midnight motorist reminded me of the scene from the movie when Golden Freddy comes and picks up Abby and kill aunt Jane
For Elizabeth not being in MM, I actually have a few solutions to throw out. It seems like it’s around 8-10 on at night in the minigame, possibly a school night, so it’s probably her bedtime and she’s already fast asleep. Considering that I doubt the house is one living room and a huge hallway with one room, it’s likely not fully accurate, so she’s probably just in a different room we don’t see.
Another possibility is that shes with Ms. Afton at the time. If we take immortal and the restless as a sign that the two weren’t on the best of terms, this might be one of those divorce custody things where sometimes the kid switches around which parent they live with. This is a bit of an assumption, but I think that’d make sense for this and even FNAF 4 (there’s also that therapy tape in SB about Vanessa’s dad and the court thing, which could either be a parallel that happens a lot with Vanessa or Glitchtrap memory stuff, but that’s relying on games long past Pizza sim so idk).
As for the mound of dirt…. Honestly it’s probably just the chest. Whatever was meant to be in it I couldn’t say, we know it’s changed a few times, for all we know the mimics in there now for some reason, but if the minigames were meant to answer questions of the time, I guess that would at least tell us where it is? 😅
IMO the mound has to be either Elizabeth or Mrs. Afton, some comments have really swayed me.
School night and the Vanessa tapes are good points to keep in mind though.
I feel like we’re missing something that solves the timeline for MM that’s a core part of Secret of the Mimic. I could see whatever inciting incident that took place either before or after fallfest there is what kickstarted his fascination with remnant and led to the creation of the funtimes making Elizabeth the first death.
Great video! My theory on explaining Midnight Motorist goes as follows (i would like to hear what do you all think about this):
This minigame shows William Afton after he killed Charlie. The mound of dirt is an initial prototype for the underground bunker William would build years later (the one we see in SL)
At this time, William had below this mound of dirt a small workshop where he was experimenting with robotics, to surpass Henry. The Crying Child would often escape home to go to this place where the Fredbear plush was. William was creating and improving the Fredbear plush as a way of controlling his son, but CC somehow discovered about this secret workshop of his father and would often go there to have time with the Fredbear plush, the only thing which bringed comfort to him.
In the night of Midnight Motorist, Shadow Freddy manifested from Charlie's death, and lured CC out of his house, to see Charlie's body. CC became deeply traumatized from seeing it. William thinked that CC had gone to the mound of dirt again, but this time he wasn't there.
CC come back traumatized, and often would have nightmares with Shadow Freddy. William had seen the animatronic footsteeps and somehow know about his son bizarre nightmares, so William suspected that there was something different going on, perhaps related to Charlie.
Wanting to investigate more, he used the Fredbear plush to manipulate CC and increase his fears. The Bite of 83 happened. After that, the agony from CC give "life" to the plush, causing William to became even more fascinated with this spiritual manifestations related to emotions.
So, he designed the nightmare experiments to impinge extreme fear on children, to see if he could discover what exactly happened to CC. Perhaps the bedroom used in the experiments were based of from Michael's room, because Mike was the one he used at first for the experiments
@@rednerdscience3278 I like the workshop idea, I just wish it was like a hatch in the ground or something instead of loose dirt. It’s cool to see we have similar thoughts about the FNAF 4 room being based off Mikes actual bedroom!
y'know...i have a potential explanation for the mound of dirt in the woods, and who's buried there.
of course, this is based on a theory of my own (both Charlie's death and the MCI took place at least some point before the Fnaf 4 minigames), but i feel like there's some evidence that actually points to this.
we know William drinks, and if MM is anything to go by, he likely also drunk drives. we know Susie's dog was hit by a car and killed.
long story short, my personal theory is that there's not a person buried under that mound: It's Susie's Dog.
the real nail in the coffin for me was when i asked myself the question that no one else seems to ask: How Exactly DID William Know About Susie's Dog?
I’ve had that idea before, you even got a yellow rabbit coming out of the ground in fruity maze, but since I believe the MCI to be later (I see you think it’s before FNAF 4) I’ve unfortunately moved away from the idea. I wish it would work cus I really like it but 🤷♂️
@@DeskFanMan87 yeah, i can see that. for me personally, i just think it happening, at the very least, before the Fnaf 4 minigames, actually makes a lot of sense. it definitely makes the Fnaf 4 minigames make sense to me (especially because. Pigtail Girl. i'm just gonna leave it there). but those are just my personal thoughts :]
i feel like it was to show that when afton isn't killing people, he can be associated with the color yellow.
16:01 - This reminds me of something I saw in another theory video (it was a brazillian one iirc) that theorized that Charlie's murder caused an ENORMOUS amount of agony, what unleashed Shadow Freddy in the first place.
Shadow Freddy goes on to Afton's house, and lures Dave to the Fredbear's building, where Charlie had just died, making the poor kid witness it... and THAT goes on to traumatize him, make him a crying mess, and cause him fear of the animatronics, remember... *"What is seen in the shadows is easily misunderstood in the mind of a child"* (the Puppet was there, alongside Charlie's corpse, making Dave think the animatronic killed her).
Furtherore, the reason Shadow Freddy goes on to meet SPECIFICALLY DAVE could be because Charlie and Dave were FRIENDS (yes, that's crazy ik, but hear me out, they are both sons of the co-owners of a pizzeria, they probably meet often while their dads are at work at the pizzeria, so it could be possible they developed a friendship there, and furthermore, that could have just made William HATE Henry and his daughter more... or maybe it held him back from doing stuff sooner bcuz of his son, idk... not really matters considering what happened later). And after witnessing his friend's death, the poor kid that LOVED the pizzeria (why would he go in "that place" again if he didnt like it?) started to fear it so much that we find him in *that* state in FNaF 4
That could also be whatever the Psychic Friend Freadbear meant with "Don't you remember what you saw?", as that would be William's way of manipulating his own son (using his trauma to controle him... litteraly)
I usually like listening to fnaf theory videos when I’m drawing and I just stumbled on this video in my recommended and WOW, your clearly a dedicated theorist and I love the way you narrate things, really brings you into the story :D
@@Misschivous666 thank you for listening! (Though my audio can be hit or miss)
@@DeskFanMan87 it was clearly a hit in this video, I was legitimately invested💯🙏🏾😊
I’m more supeised that people don’t use the movie for Elizabeth being born later in the timeline as there she isn’t born( or is an infant) when garret is taken away
You and another person have made comments that make me want to do a follow up on this video just kinda reading through the comments here, because this is a great point. Honestly I’ll take any solid reason for Elizabeth to not be the mound, so I like this train of thought.
Alright i believe the Mound to be Mrs. Aftons grave. Why? Simplle you have to remember that FFPS is a game meant for clarifying stuff. Back when SL released a lot of people were wondering what the role of Mrs. Afton was. The most popular theory was that she was possessing ballora which FFPS debunks by proving Molten MCI. So i think Scott added the Mound (which we know to be a grave due to it's looks and TUG calling it a grave) to show Mrs. Aftons role in the story. She Has no role she dies early in the timeline before William kills someone.
But still great video, it's nice to see someone believing Mike to be the Couch potato and BV to be the runaway. Imo those 2 theories just seem REALLY obvious.
Oh that’s actually a solid point for Momma Afton mound, this is one of the better ones I’ve seen.
You definitely just gave that idea more credit IMO, but for me it makes a tad more sense for the Afton minigame to be including the already established Afton characters we’ve met up to this point.
Just my POV, but seriously props to you cus I did a double take at this😅
And thank you!
@@DeskFanMan87yeah I get that, my explanation at least for why Elizabeth isn't in Midnight motorists is because the minigame is simply not about her. People didn't really need a clarification on Elizabeth because we already knew everything we needed to know about her. (Except for her name but FFPS already confirms her name to be Elizabeth)
@@century453 that’s fair
This mini game gonna haunt us till we all die, we're all gonna be in our 50s and still wonder what this mini game was all about
Honestly, yeah probably.
The main reason I’m not convinced of BVRunaway is because him seeing Charlie’s body kinda retcons what we know about BV’s fears because FNAF 4 already tells us that BV just misunderstood something simple and nothing in the game even connects his fears to the Puppet. Another problem I have is that if Afton didn’t want BV to run to Fredbear’s, why did the Aftons move near the diner after MM?
So, to me, I mostly stick with MikeRunaway or the possibility that BV was just lured to the mound (who could just be Mrs. Afton) rather than the diner.
Yeah, I kinda danced around that in the video, should have just said it outright but I say I don’t know where Dave goes because I don’t think he goes to Fredbear’s and sees Charlie. Do I have another answer? Unfortunately no, but if he sees Charlie it kinda goes against the whole “misunderstood in mind of a child” thing. Though that is an out of game hint, so could have been changed. I do stick by WillPlush speaker, so him gaslighting Dave in 4 could actually make sense…….you got me thinking now, my head hurts.
@@DeskFanMan87 Well, if BVRunaway is true, I think Shadow Freddy could have taken BV to the mound, which could be Mrs. Afton’s grave under this interpretation. Although I’m not sure why, my guess is that SF wants to get agony from BV or something.
I mean it’s not just Charlie that he would see but also the puppet like wrapped around her or something. He’d probably think that it killed her, hence the fear of animatronics. Admittedly, the security puppet is a little different, but still.
For the second point, it’s harder to say exactly; I think it’s probably just that he didn’t want to change plans for a new home closer to work just because of his kid (especially if the SL bunker really is right under his house), so he took precautions with the cameras, stoking his fears with the plushbear, and forcing Micheal to look after him.
@Sketch-ic6jf I do agree with your problem with BVRunaway
imo purpleman is just evil. no motivation to start the killing.
one thing i cant understand is who ran away in midnight motorist. and if the gray guy is really mike, why is he being "good" or worried about the crying child?
Brothers are complicated. I unironically use Diary of a Wimpy Kid: Rodrick Rules as an example.
Even if Afton was a psycho trying to just kidnap and kill kids, Elizabeth dies and possesses Baby, and THAT causes him to study soul juice, it STILL runs into the issue of Charlie being all but confirmed to be that LAST death at this point. Unless the DCI happened.
I don’t think HW2 says Charlie dies last, I believe it’s the release order, which would line up with Frights.
Tbh it makes sense for elizabeth to die before the mci but after the death of charlie and cc
Just like the novels
The 8 bit minigame numbers could give us a date:
January 7, 1985
@@cake1987-cm7yb I agree, I really don’t like the chance of her being before everything. Heck, my first theory video has her before the MCI and after Charlie and CC.
I’m probably going to do a follow up video on this just reading y’all’s comments, because there’s a lot of great points so far.
@@DeskFanMan87 “The most terrible accidents sometimes bear the most beautiful fruits,” he said, as if to himself. “Re-creating the accident-that is the duty and the honor of science. To replicate the experiment, and obtain the same result. I give my life to this experiment, piece by piece.”
Elizabeth is treated like garbage on TFC, so the accident is her and the beautiful fruits are the mci
@@cake1987-cm7yb actually have that first part of the quote on the thumbnail for my first vid!
There are Faz-Tokens that have engravings that tell us that Freddy Fazbear's Pizza had opened in 1983. Therefore, I'm not sure that Elizabeth could not have died before Crying Child.
I kinda want to wait for Secret of the Mimic at this point before saying things can’t exist before 1983, which is a rule I used to really like to follow. But I dunno anymore.
@@DeskFanMan87 Waiting for The Secrets of the Mimic is extremely fair. Who knows what that game could reveal about the early days of FNAF. Keep up the good work. Look forward to your perspectives and theories!
What if it is BOTH williams car, but at the same time, william is also the one kidnapping the child.
This way we are accounting for the yandere chicas description of william kidnapping a child after trying to break in, and then finding a window, WHILE ALSO accounting for the fact the springbonnie decoration is in the midnight motor in FLAF
what if the purple car is indeed williams, BUT yellow person is not william, but instead Mrs afton, coming home in her husbands car, only to find crying child isnt opening his door, she then walks to the back of the house, to find that the window is broken,her son was missing.. or kidnapped?
This could be an explanation of crying child experiencing fnaf 4, since he recognises nightmare fredbear in the logbook, replying with "Im scared", he was kidnapped by william, and sent to the games version of the dittophobia bunker, michael could potentially ALSO have seen the nightmares, since he after being injected with remnant using the scooper, experienced the memories of the dead children, one of them being crying child.
I like this, but if Yellow Guy is Mrs. Afton, why do you think she’d be denied entry into JR’s?
@@scaleonkhan183 if jr's is a bar maybe she became an alcoholic to deal with her grief over cc, or if cc isn't dead yet, sometimes people just be alcoholics regardless
3:20 "-that one piece of the jigsaw puzzle nobody knew how to fit in properly"
Ah yes, the ONE PIECE that doesn't fit anywhere neatly. The SINGULAR event nobody knows where to put in the timeline.
Congratulations, this made me laugh more than it should have.
I agree with most of it except the Elizabeth part, I think the "buried" person could be Mrs. Afton, the reason Elizabeth wouldn't come out would be because she was too young at that time and she is asleep, if we take into account the data that the novels show, Elizabeth was barely a kindergartener in 84-85, if we subtract that, she should be 2 or 3 years old at most in 1983, It wouldn't be unreasonable to think that he was sleeping.
That aside, I do agree with BV being the person running away and Mike being the person on the couch, watching TV, the fact that his and William's color palettes pretty similar to FNAF 4 text color must definitely be an indication to take into account.
Also the fact that baby literlly absorbed the body and I imagine her hating afton wasn’t just gonna cough it up
I could see it swinging either way, momma Afton or Elizabeth, but imo Liz just makes more contextual sense. With that it’s all the established Afton characters in the same minigame. The age is a good callout though.
@@DeskFanMan87 Yes, but having it be Elizabeth would complicate the timeline issue a bit, especially when the novels establish that Elizabeth died shortly before the MCI.
@@alesm9666 oh absolutely, isn’t it fun?? (I’m going crazy)
Another great video from desk the fan yet again.
I do agree with most of your interpretation of midnight motorist and it was great to see your view on aftonMM.
Though I think that the mound is and the footprints is coming from springbonnie, like the mound being the burrow for the yellow rabbit like in fruity maze and the footprints coming from William in the springbonnie suit to scare bv from him running away to fredbears.
For my two cents on bv runaway i think it makes sense since I think that the lore-keeper minigames is kinda like a continuation of the fnaf 3 mini-games with the ending resembling the fnaf 3 good ending. And the fnaf 3 minigames focus on the MCI kids, bv, and Charlie. Fruity maze focus on the MCI, security puppet focus on Charlie, so I think that midnight motorist would focus on bv hence why midnight motorist is connected to fnaf 4. And makes sense why midnight motorist would connect to Charlie death in security puppet.
Like bv running away from home to fredbears and William stopping him from doing that is like a inverse to how Henry built the security puppet in order to make sure that Charlie doesn’t run to the exit at fredbears.
Anyways great video as always and can wait for the next one.
Everything in this games breaks the timeline. That's how I feel most of the time. 😂
Where's your desk fan you Charlton?!
I’m a fraud and don’t have one😭😭
(Good idea for a prop tho)
Whats the likelihood that Charlie's body could be in the mound? If afton left Jr's after causing a problem while drunk and went to freddy's ran her over (especially with the crazy driving in the mini game) and he just hid the body in a hard to find clearing? Why hide your child somewhere isolated and not the coworkers kid you just killed when your business depends on his work. Then i could just pass her off as going missing. She possessed the puppet but a body had to be left over 🤔. Dave could have saw him burying her and could even have told henry. If he went vack to the place.
Considered it, but like you said the body being left in the Security Puppet minigame makes me believe it’s unlikely, especially since it seems Will has already sped off leaving tire marks.
Putting Elizabeth OR Charlie too early in the TL forces people to wonder why William is killing children.
Yeah, it’s why I’ve always disliked it. But I just follow the clues 🕵️
He's just a little crazy
Congratulations. You have a new subscriber. You not only touched on what I already knew, you expanded what I knew and gave me a deeper understanding.
Glad to have done so, thank you!
This video was so so great. And you are a good, clear communicator. I hope your YT channel continues to grow
Thank you!
Great video! I agree with all the basics: the motorist Afton, couch person Mike, and runaway Dave. Those first two had elements that made their identities pretty clear, imo. The rationale for the footprints being Shadow Freddy also works well. With Nightmarionne and Nightmare being interchangeable in FNAF 4 and the Puppet being kept in Lefty (a black-colored bear) I think the existence of Shadow Freddy is linked to the death of Henry's daughter.
Without further evidence I can't agree to the Funtimes existing that early so I don't think Elizabeth could be dead yet. She could just be absent because she isn't relevant to the story of MM.
To add my own theorizing, I'm actually leaning towards the footprints still being Springbonnie. We know that the runaway had ran away at least once before, potentially as a habit, so I'm thinking that William was using the suit to stand outside the window and scare the kid to stay in. The footprints wouldn't be from the same night, that's just the spot William stands in. He couldn't do it that night because 1. he was killing and 2. it was raining.
Also I don't have an explanation for the dirt pile but to be fair, it's a pile of dirt.
Fair enough interpretation, but for another possible clue as to what Midnight Motorist is, I'd recommend looking at the numbers on the dice in the Midnight Motor in FLAF
Probably, I recorded this before I saw anything about the dice
Maybe this is just coincidence but I think it's interesting that in the Halloween update of fnaf 4, Nightmare is replaced with the nightmare-puppet. if shadow freddy really is the footprints outside the house and lead Dave to Charlie's death, I think that this could be further evidence for that interpretation.
Honestly I think you may be overthinking things at the ending of the vid a bit because well... it is MIDNIGHT motorist. Chances are good Elizabeth would have just been in bed at the time and that's why we don't see her lmao.
That noted it is possible she was already dead so who knows! At this point I think this franchise needs more "The Week Before" type books that genuinely spell out the solutions to certain old mysteries that are just not possible to concretely solve with the game material alone.
The dirt mound is inside of a gray, building-ish outline. I think the outline is meant to clarify that there is a) an underground bunker, b) a building planned to be made, or c) a building that previously existed, now destroyed. I can't figure out which one it is, but I think that's the utility of the dirt mound and we might have co-opted it to mean something more violent or horror-related than the true intention. I don't know though!
I think specifically 2 or 3 are good options, but honestly it would have made more sense if there just wasn’t the pile, the outline on its own would make me believe it more.
Dude I really think Secret of the Mimic and the “first tragedy” or whatever Henry calls it, will be all about Elizabeth.
Am I the only one who thought from the beggining that Midnight Motorist was all about William? :/
I mean I don’t think so, I thought so when it came out but over the years it just made less sense to me. So we’re kinda back to square one lol
@@DeskFanMan87 To me it's pretty simple:
- The minigame takes place after William murdered Charlie in a drunken rage, most likely due to either the death of the CC or Elizabeth, depending on you think died first and who's corpse the unmarked grave contains (doesn't really matter in the context of the minigame, it could be both for all we know lol). William getting drunk all the time after the deaths of the CC & Elizabeth could explain why he isn't allowed in JR's, you know, a bar.
- Orange guy is William, more specifically how other people see him (when he isn't committing evil acts or is simply cloaked in shadows, in the same vain as "What's seen in shadows is easily misunderstood in the mind of a child").
- The TV watcher is Ms. Afton, who is trying to protect Michael but not outright think of him as innocent due to the bite.
- The runaway is Michael, which would explain William's aggressiveness to whoever is the runaway (not JUST him being drunk).
- Michael potentially runs off to a Freddy's location because of an "animatronic" that seems to know & help Michael (maybe Shadow Bonnie, given his involvement in the Happiest Day).
Odd thought. What if the mound is the FNAF 4 box? I mostly asked this because of Shizu's video.
@@sillydani106 since the Scott interview and how he answered about the box, I don’t know if I believe it’s a physical thing anymore. Shizu’s explanation does make a lot of sense though and if the box is real, that’s what I’d go with in my narrative unless there’s a better alternative.
Really like the shattered plush angle.
I think this answers "Daves" remember what you saw.. He saw Yupple Guy kill that person and bury them.
MOST LIKELY Dressed as SpringTrap. Thats why Dave never put 2+2 Together and he was scared of the Animatronics.. and NOT his father.
It would also give a reason for William to Withdraw from being around his son, Dave. He felt guilty.
I don’t believe William would feel guilty, but besides that the rest could work.
I don’t think William regrets the murders, nor does he really seem like loving father
Shadow Freddy Origins theory; What if, like in the silver eyes, Afton survived a spring lock failure very, very early in the timeline... While wearing the Fredbear suit. He survives, but his agony of the experience "spawns" Shadow Freddy and HE SEES IT and then that triggers his... "research", we'll call it. This could explain why the "shadows" are weird; what if they aren't spirits/souls at all and so they don't "embody" a specific persons wants, traits or anything? Maybe, being nothing but agony, they then spawn whenever there's just a lot of activity in the area? The Follow Me events seem to be a lot of activity suddenly occurring in a building that's been shut down for a while; suddenly there's stuff going on, people are here... Shadow Freddy materializes and irritates the physical haunted objects into action.
While I don't agree with Dave (CC) Afton being the Runaway, I did still enjoy the theory, excitedly waiting for the next one!
Thank you!
(I’m thinking of covering ITP next, but honestly dunno yet)
But where did shadow freddy come from, the best theory I know is that shadow freddy came from the agony of the bite of ‘83 but that contradicts this theory
Shadow Freddy would spawn from Charlie’s death at Fredbear’s under this narrative. Withered Circle just released a video that made a great case for Shadow Bonnie to be the one here instead though.
I promise to not get heated this time.
Well, we’re talking about a minigame in a game that ends in fire, so TECHNICALLY this is the perfect time to get heated. (I’m just trying to justify it but this isn’t working)
Ok finished the video. First off, another BANGER from my favorite fnaf theory channel. Great job as always. You bring up some great points. Personally I still think the mound is a purposely open mystery to leave room for future games. I think that if Secret of the Mimic reveals a motivation for William and gives us more info on shadow Freddy I could finally accept this as canon. Would also help if we get another appearance of yellow Afton in the new game but that's hopeful thinking. Its still possible that Scott removes the bunny from the midnight motor or changes the name to reference save him instead and then it all falls apart.
@@Gamer_Dylan_6 glad you liked it! For some reason the mound being an open mystery is something I’ve never even considered, I actually don’t mind that.
Lots of people so far screaming Mrs. Afton, but like I said that’s one of those things that just “fits cus it can” not “cus it makes much sense with what we have”. But it just being an open ended thing for some reason I feel more comfortable with.
12:50 YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! IT WAS SAID THAT YOU WOULD SOLVE AFTONMM, NOT MAKE IT VAGUE. BRING BALANCE TO THE COMMUNITY, NOT GO FOR THE CRAZY THEORIES.
I’m joking. I’ll be honest, even if I don’t agree with what you said in this video, I highly enjoyed it.
With FFPS trying to tie up lose ends, I want to share my personal thoughts on what Midnight Motorist is supposed to imply:
- Afton is abusive, which debunks WillCare/WillGrief
- William lost control over Fredbear’s after the Big Bite, which made him furious towards Henry because of Henry not being harmed and still owns the property since it’s running down. This makes William drive to Fredbear’s to strangle Charlie mainly to hurt Henry over wild jealously.
- Shadow Freddy is born from Charlie’s murder. Henry said “I couldn’t save you then” and this quote makes me believe Henry was the Freddy mascot in TCTTC minigame. This is where Shadow Freddy’s birth was and this makes him follow William wherever he goes (including Mike)
- Speaking of Mike, I believe that Mike is the runaway because if Shadow Freddy is the one standing in the back, then he’s picking a pickle on Mike. Which makes sense due to how Nightmare is part of Mike’s dreams.
- And with “That place”, I have a feeling William was referring to Fredbear’s. And Mike would have the memory of finding Charlie’s body, which makes him have the similarities to Clara- now why? Because Mike believes everything is crazy and that no one would take him literal since he’s responsible for the Big Bite.
- This gives William a motivation to create the Nightmare chambers. If Mike is experiencing nightmares about Fredbear, with BV having nightmares about the animatronics in the first place, then William would start finding out if BV is actually haunting him and that he’s giving a sign that there’s something worse than death for Willy. So Willy started experimenting on fear, which led him to believe Charlie now possesses the Puppet with him being aware of ghosts.
- Mrs. Afton is a thing. And with her watching TV, I could assume that Mike had developed a similar personality to his mother while having the looks of his father. But is Mrs. Afton herself really important? More likely: No. I could imagine that after Charlie’s death, she left due to children dying and Fredbear’s being dead.
- And since Midnight Motorist was all about the Aftons, I believe the narrative of this minigame is supposed to reflect the story of FFPS. It’s the relationship of both the father and the son during the aftermath of what caused their journeys to began with. And FFPS is where it’s showing both the past and the present of Mike and William’s relationship and character arcs.
That’s all I could say about it. I know FFPS doesn’t have to be narratively satisfying since I’m too ranty with the lore. I’m not even a BVRunaway but I’m getting a little hesitant with it being brought up now that Flaf confirmed AftonMM, I just think MikeRunaway makes more sense mainly because of how it’s symbolizing the protagonist and antagonist in FFPS’s modern story (With Puppet minigame, it’s with Henry and Lefty; as Fruity Maze, I might say it’s more info on the MCI and how it’s supposed to sympathize them as Molten Freddy). I feel like it’s nice to get more character info about the Aftons and how it’s reflecting the story of FFPS.
With AftonMM being confirmed, I’m completely glad that we got an answer for Midnight Motorist rather than teasing everyone who was wrong. I’m just glad that the debate is done, but not yet. Anyways, just here to share my opinions- but I’m totally shock over your conclusions in this video 😅
Edit: Also, Congrats on the FuhNaff stream. Glad to see you there
This is great, seriously, but man I just struggle with accepting things like Mrs. Afton, Mikerunaway, ect. Narratively I like it, but it’s just the evidence I struggle with.
For me it just makes sense to have all of the established Afton characters be included in some form for the minigame, so at that point it’s taking what the game gives us and just matching characters to ones we know. I almost even said Jr’s Green Guy was Henry to connect to Charlie’s green band, but with Jrs bar theory it just makes no sense.
And it was cool to see you at the live stream! Saw ya in the live chat.
@@DeskFanMan87 Understandable, the struggle with accepting happened to me with things like Glitch/Burntrap being Mimic, what narrative I had for SB, Frights and Tales, and so on. I had change of opinions to find out what could be the story of FNAF.
I don’t really think Midnight Motorist has to have all of the Aftons for that specific story. We never had any appearance of Mrs. Afton, while she’s not important, she’s never given any attention for a big story like this. I just look at the lore from what makes sense to me and how the tone of the characters and storyline fit with the lore. And even if you argue Mrs. Afton has no relevance of MikeRunaway grudges you, I have some level of thoughts:
Mrs. Afton could have some relevance like Phone Guy, characters who get involved but don’t have a bigger impact on the story overall. I understand why she’s not important, she’s never acknowledged- But I’ll be shocked if she’s ever appeared in future games.
And MikeRunaway, I’ve always had a hesitant with using colors to solve the lore, remember when people said Fredbear Plush has a different speaker in Night 6 due to text color? That’s kinda my problem with using color for lore. I could see the Couch Potato to be Mrs. Afton with a gown, with the gray connecting her to Michael (which would put some weight on Michael being like his mom). But with the Runaway, I think it makes sense that the player and his son would have an impact on what’s show in FFPS. It’s kinda like how Star Wars uses parallels to show a connection between both Prequels and OG Trilogy.
It’s fine to disagree though. I hope you do more streams, it’s fun with you around
@@Cross_Corp64 definitely plan to stream more at some point, hopefully this week
@@DeskFanMan87 Awesome 🤩
The grave could very well be the grave of the mother who William murdered also being the catalyst for his evil. It could even be a combination of this and the spring lock theory u present.
The car could be a rental. Like how Vlad says his car is a rental
Yeah I remember Ozone bringing that up, definitely an option.
Baby says herself that she doesn't know why or how she killed Elizabeth as we know from her optional dialogue on night 3 of Sister Location and if William was kidnapping kids with Baby then why would William do so? No, Baby's dialogue implies it was an accident, a malfunction with her ice cream claw, the Springlock animatronics were also know to malfunction afterall.
Baby has no reason to lie as this is an optional bit if dialogue, she wanted us to trust her so we do what she says, her being desperate to leave as well as stuck with all her thoughts and being torchured with shocks would heavily imply she just wants freedom. She also obviously is circus themed and her being there before Charlie and Dave dies means she existed as an animatronic before Freddy and the gang thus meaning the Funtimes shouldn't exist then as what woukd they be based off of then.
So Baby (and possibly Ballora) were made before or near the start of 1983 with the funtimes coming afterwards, so that's another reason why William wouldn't be kidnapping at that point.
With all this and literally everything else i agree with in the video, Elizabeth’s death is why Charlie was killed to make sure if William lost his dauther the Henry would to and seeing Baby's eyes change later motivates him to kidnap, kill and experiment. Dave goes to the grave with Shadow Freddy taking him there, possibly sees Charlie dead next to the Puppet creating his fear of tye animatronics and at least 5 days later gets bitten and then slowly dies from his injuries then William does his thing.
I mean, couldn't you say that the grave is Mrs Afton/the mother under this?
I feel like that makes considerably more sense than Elizabeth if BV is still alive and Charlie just died. And if you are going to say that she's important enough to use her to explain the house change, i don't see why this would be out of the question.
It could, but like I said it’s one of those “it can fit here so why not” sort of things. I don’t even like the whole “she keeps the big house” thing, but it does jump out at me that Afton specifically says that the house in MM is HIS house. It gives that idea just the slight edge of legitimacy to me.
This is a theory overall just trying to take what the minigame is saying at face value without trying to completely make it fit, like I realllly dislike Baby’s being earlier, but with Elizabeth being the grave you all of a sudden have every established Afton character up to this point in the same minigame.
Hmm it kinda makes sence taht cisrcus baby was earlier in the beginig, probably the game was made to fill in the gap Scot didnt take in azount in the first games, but how, for some reason there is no grave for elisabeth.
Hmmm im a little confused because I thought the footprints would belong to spring bonnie because William is trying to scare his kids away from the animatronics :>. But for thinking mike is the TV person and not Mrs. Afton is probably correct. One other thing is tho why would William have motive for killing charlie and how would he know about remnent before he killed charlie? He has no motive to build the funtimes yet... And thats why idk if the tv person is micheal or Wife Afton or not. Im so confused help me chat :(
probably michael, and he killed charlie in anger after his wife died, he was angry henry (charlies dad, and his partner) had a happy life and kid, and he (william) didnt.
@@feder_tion I thought he killed charlie because he was mad cuz the animatronic part failed, killing cc. I thought thats why he killed charley
@@Julplayz no bru, watch an updated complete timeline video thats uploaded within like the last 20 days because we just got more lore in a book
@@feder_tionTf are you talking about. How does The Week Before give clarification to William’s motive to kill Charlie?
@@quantum6637 Bro we've known this for years..
Incredible video. I think for me, the most difficult part is trying to find out WHY cassidy is the special one. My best guess is because she was killed in a springlock failure... but why? and why does that matter to the story? And it just feels like there's a much simpler explanation that I'm just missing. Of course there are the small details you pointed out like 'who are the shadows' 'what did the crying child see' and 'whose the fredbear plush' but TOYSNHK is the one I just don't get. If it wasn't for that detail the story would make 10 thousand times more sense
edit: I always viewed the dirtpile as the beginning of building the fnaf 4 house (the gameplay one) but you raise great points
We have the same lamp shade
Oh cool lol
while i don’t agree on who the runaway is, i always appreciate seeing a new perspective. love your vids!
Thank you!
Maybe that's the one retcon Scott made, making William yellow instead of purple, lol
Personally, I don't think the Crying Child/Dave/Garrett, whatever his name is, is not the runaway kid. Because it defeats the whole purpose of why he was scared, Misunderstood.
He misunderstood something that was seen in the shadows and easily got scared and cried. If he saw a creepy purple bear or the dead body of Charlie (which some people think.) That is not misunderstood that he can be bullied by that?!?!? To me, I feel like Michael is the runaway kid and saw Shadow Freddy.
Probably what he "misunderstood" (following that logic) was who caused Charlie's death, in his eyes it was an animatronic who caused his death, because he did not see the complete scenario, he only saw a little girl with an animatronic on top of her, so he would blame the animatronics and that would be the reason why he is so afraid of them. He mistakenly thought it was an animatronic who kills her and not William (bc he didn't see the whole scene), plus that would explain why there are so many rumors in FNAF 4 about animatronics and hiding bodies in suits.
@@alesm9666 But like, what would they make rumors about a dead child being killed by a animatronic, wouldn't that make people scared and possibly shut down Fredbear's for that?! And also get bullied and not get serious about that?? it's a dead body!!? no matter who the cause of that?? And William (Orange Guy) doesn't seem to be panicking, he just seems annoyed by him going "that place again". I'm sorry, but I just don't see that to be the case and it's ruined the whole premise of his fears, being misunderstood by something that is harmless. NOT A DEAD BODY, NOR WHO THE CAUSE OF THIS! Because many people don't take it seriously and make bullshit rumors about it as if that's harmless.
@@fungames1631 Throughout the FNAF saga there are rumors of deaths, after the MCI there are and still people went to the location of 87, in help wanted the game itself is about covering up the events with unfounded rumors. William referring to going to "that place again" may refer to the fact that he used to go to Fredbears, which is why he would (hypothetically) stumble upon the scene of Charlotte's death.
@@alesm9666 Okay, you have a point there. But tbh, I don't think that is what Scott is referring to, and I just don't think that C.C. saw Charlie's Dead Body as his misunderstanding of the killer because that just contradicts how other people act in FNaF 4, as they are not taking it seriously. Personally, I think we already saw what C.C. misunderstood in the shadows as just William putting someone in a Springbonnie suit Easter egg as it's telling that someone is putting on a spring-lock suit and C.C. saw in the shadows and probably other kids as they made rumors about it to make it scary. Again, this is just my opinion, and I'm very sorry if I was mean or if I lash out this way. I just really don't like that theory. And I think Michael being the runaway kid fits better for his character.
@@fungames1631 No problem! I don't 100% agree with this theory either, but I see it as a possibility considering the different interpretations that can be given to the phrase and that at least, narratively speaking, it would be very interesting
Regarding the other thing, I'm not sure if CC's trauma is related to seeing the workers put on the springlocks suits considering that in the minigame he doesn't show any reaction to the easter egg but It's totally valid if you see it that way and I see your vision, if I'm honest I think CC's trauma could be related to something he saw at the fallfest (because of the implications in TCoD), but it's my personal opinion hehe.
Wait, why does Elizabeth have a room/toys if she’s dead before they move in? 🤔
That’s why I had it that Afton moved into the smaller house after she dies.
@@DeskFanMan87 oh ok gotcha, misunderstood that part :p
Here's a thought you probably won't see since it's four hours late and UA-camrs only notice the first hour of comments... What if the grave is Michael and Dave's mother. Hear me out. Michael and Dave are Brunette, so is William Afton if the books are to be believed. Elizabeth is a Ginger. What if Elizabeth is Michael and Dave's half-sister? It would explain the grave. It would also explain the drunken nights as JRs. What's worse, what if Mrs. Afton was killed in a car accident after William got drunk? That's why he's not allowed in. It would explain Elizabeth. And... Mrs. Afton may have been pregnant with a girl which explains the girl's room in FNAF 4. William sees Charlie as the daughter he never had and his rage at himself makes him take it out on her. Especially since Charlie is a brunette as well. Crazy idea, right?
Boom, within 10 minute reply! And yeah, crazy ideas indeed, but cool ones. The car crash thing is a bit much for me, maybe if there was a loose tire or something also in the clearing to indicate I’d be more comfortable with it but it’s still not impossible.
Being redheaded is a recessive gene. You can have two parents who don’t have red hair have a red headed child - it’s fairly common. Likewise, we don’t even know Mrs. Afton’s hair color anyway - she could’ve easily been a redhead. Either way, Elizabeth’s hair color is by no means solid evidence of being a half-sibling.
@@tritter15 this may be true, but the idea I am going with, and have been since MatPat's three episode timeline, is the possibility that William has been married twice with Elizabeth being younger. This would give a lot of leeway for Sister Location, it explains why Elizabeth nor Mrs. Afton were not around in FNAF 4, and it might help explain why, in FNAF 6 Michael is sitting in his chair watching the Immortal and the Restless while Dave escapes.
Also to @DeskFanMan87 the idea of the Car Accident is that Mrs. Afton was buried after the accident in the plot of land not at the same time. People do bury their loved ones close to home.
@@silverbullet1620 There’s no evidence for a second marriage, nor is there evidence to suggest that Elizabeth was born after Mrs. Afton’s death - which the death itself doesn’t even have strong evidence for. Just a grave whose origins are unknown that could be speculated to be Mrs. Afton’s - but could also be Elizabeth’s, a missing child, some have even suggested the box itself.
The tl;dr, is that you’d have to first establish that Elizabeth was born AFTER Mrs. Afton left (or died) in the first place. And we don’t have any evidence for that.
@@tritter15 there is no evidence disproving my theory. That's why it's a theory.
great video, just one small criticism, I’d recommend to stop using that fnaf 1 camera flipping gameplay, it burnt my eyes off😭
I’ll try to use that specifically less or blur it at the very least.
I never understood why people assume the person watching TV is Mike. He's always been characterized as abusive and a bully to Dave, why would he tell William to give him a break?
Because he’s not heartless and obviously does love his brother since he goes through hell for CC and Elizabeth.
@@aromaladyellie He is literally laughing with his friends moments before Fredbear kills Dave, and only does what he does after the fact - I assume to redeem himself.
my brother was also a bully to me, but the thing with siblings is that shit changes on a dime. Some days bullies don’t bully as hard. teenagers are just like that. it’s very plausible for Mike to acknowledge dave having a rough day and deciding he’s has enough and doesn’t need his dads shit.
I recommend you watch Diary of a Wimpy Kid: Rodrick Rules, and come back to this comment again.
I personally think Charlie died soon after the crying child. William was just letting him cope that night. Making Elizabeth the most likely run away
And I thought the orange guy was Henry because lf his shirt, Aston stole his car, killed Charlie and made everyone think it was Henry 😂😂😂 (just dumb shi, don’t attack me pls)
No attacking from me lol
Well considering it was(/is?) theorized that Henry was convicted instead of William thanks to the Newspapers in FNaF 1, it's honestly not too farfetched.
Though in the end that was just a theory on what we had to go by at the time.
I still think the midnight motorist guy is still an MCI parent who wound up getting a bad rental car that was Williams. The fnaf movie has William doing different odd jobs to assist in his murders...
Is it time for the goofy Afton rental car salesman arc! I'm down for it. 😅
We need that as fan art ASAP.
Mike isn't the only person in the world that watches TV. So this evidence is weak
Edit: Elizabeth could be at her mother's or something
I doubt Dave would talk to William the way the Tv person does. Technically he does watch tv briefly in FNAF 4, but that vs the protagonist we spent a week with watching TV, I think the latter wins by default. And him watching tv is emphasized again by the Survival Logbook.
Ok, also. Elizabeth could be at her mother's or at a sleepover or something
I just need to say this, The crying child is not the runaway, it's Michael
And Michael isn't the person sitting on the couch watching TV
Siresquawks made a video about it a year ago and in the beginning he said "I solved FNAF, deal with it!"
Plus people who mostly runaway from home are mostly pre-teens or teenagers, not little kids
I’ve seen that video, I still disagree the runaway is Mike, but I get the teen argument.
In the books, 8-year-old Timmy runs away from his grandparents' house which is located in the middle of nowhere, it's not that far-fetched to think that CC would escape from home, especially when it's a place where he receives mistreated, it is a natural behavior of children, not just adolescents.
I have a Fnaf Theory with no evidence: Sammy Emily was kidnapped and tortured as an experiment by William Afton and when he was done with him he let Michael Afton do the Bite of 83 prank only for Michael to regret his actions and bring Sammy Emily to the hospital with a deactivated Funtime Freddy for emotional support only for Funtime Freddy to steal away Sammy Emily’s dead body after he went flatlining in the hospital.
Only evidence I actually do have is that The Crying Child was kidnapped by William Afton in the Fnaf movie and that William Afton kidnapped Charlie Emily in the Silver Eyes trilogy, but no mention of who exactly William Afton kidnaps in Midnight Motorist because it’s implied he did kidnap someone just not really whom exactly he kidnapped. The only other evidence besides all that is of course Dittophobia (apologies for misspelling) where William Afton “supposedly” kidnapped a child named Rory and he used to the Nightmare Gas from sister location on Rory to make him hallucinate mannequins in what seems to be a bunker of some kind(what everyone thought was the Afton House). In Dittophobia it’s said Rory was in that place for over a decade, but it feels as though for The Crying Child that either the experiment was interrupted or something bad happened… I’m leaning towards the “something bad that happened” was The Bite of 1983. That’s it, that’s all I got. Have a nice day. 😅
Oh wow that is a lot of pieces put in a very different order than I’ve ever heard. I actually kinda like the kidnapping angle, but I dunno about the rest. Still cool tho.
The only weird thing of the theory is that the only reason we could think of William being Orange guy is the little rabbit head in the car, something we just see in five laps at fredy's, and it could just be a reference.
Because FLAF is not canon right? RIGHT???
Or maybe we will have an completely different answer with next games
Meh, we already knew it was William. The car just made it more clear.
This video doesn't have anything new from everyone else's exact 'theory'. You literally just copied everyone else.
Also, the mound could be Mrs Afton
@@RavenZombieX my conclusions are mostly the same, but I mean I hope that they would. We wouldn’t solve anything if everyone had a completely different answer.
I believe I did add a new angle to AftonMM, explaining why he would be Yellow, ect. The analysis of Scott’s reply to MatPat is a part I’m extremely proud of, because the context around that time is something I think people have forgotten. And anytime I do get direct inspiration from another creator, I always make it a point to reference them, either linking their specific video or their channel. My rule is that if I hear something from someone I will reference them.
As far as the mound….that’s to be covered more later (get it, COVERED, cus it’s a dirt pile….)