That's the trouble with impatience, it gets the better of us, and then makes scrap metal out of good stuff, I've done that enough times when my impatience took hold and I ended up breaking stuff, and found there was a very simple fault elsewhere... :(
Yeah, I've found in my work impatience costs time & money- time for the new part to arrive or to re-fabricate a part, Much better when frustrated to take a short break, think about it, then begin again, remembering that this is a learning opportunity that WILL save me time on the NEXT ONES or similar parts in the future.
Murphy's law states, if it's stuck, force it. If it breaks, it was effed anyway. You win some, you lose some. Some parts have been stuck together for decades and they're never gonna move, at least not in one piece.
Its always easy to see in hindsight, but for future similar situations, I would consider applying rotational force to the crankshaft at the same time as the press. Apply pressure to the piston with the press and leverage to the crank at the same time. There's no guarantee of course, but it may increase the chances of success as opposed to the press just applying crush force as in this case. Having said that, by the glimpse we got of that crank, it was looking unlikey to move and would most likely have been scrap anyway..
Even though it’s easy to sit here and criticize you for applying 7 tonnes of force to that poor little piston, I like the fact that you share your successes as well as your failures/mistakes.
I know how you feel when you try to salvage old engines and you know sometimes you break parts and you get frustrated depressed and aggravated and how you feel I go through it too
It is unfortunate those things occurred. It is macabre, it is at least comforting that it is not just me that ends up in how should we say, "destructive repairs" 🙂. Knowing how things go, I was nervous when you had it in the vise pumping grease with only the side supported either it ends up on the floor or you end up nervous about the former, and end up squishing something. I would suggest having a workmate around since you could oddly shaped objects between the jaws and clamp at odd angles, and if it does fail, it can't do any harm since it can't fall between the jaws. I think it would've prevented the initial casing breakage since you could support the sides where the chain attaches with wooden blocks and the sensitive part of the case would be protected. The grease method has me wondering about potential damage, particularly on such small stuff. If it is as stuck as this was and it maintained a airtight seal at a very high pressure, I couldn't say, but I imagine you could run into a situation where it would damage the spark plug threading or warp the head? Given some engines propensity to self remove plugs I imagine it's possibility especially if it would be an aluminum head in question.
My father and myself used the grease nipple technique on a puch twingle engine, we were unaware the crank was seized solid with rust and as that wouldn't rotate to accommodate the movement of the piston, the pressure of the grease forced the bottom flange off of the barrel. It didn't have through-bolts like yours.
Scott over at cold war motors did this grease trick in the Straight Eight showdown. Plus he was using a portapower and not just a regular greasegun. He got the piston to go down a little, but there was no saving it. It had to be drilled out and ruined to get it out of the cylinder.
Cereal boxes make great gaskets. A cereal box gasket wouldn't work as a proper head gasket, but I would think it would be good enough to seal it against grease.
I had saved a Electrolux built Husqvarna weedeater (that I had seized with wrong oil/fuel mix ratio...) by filling the cylinder with heavy weight gear oil and forcing a BP6ES (long threaded 14mm sparkplug for a Mercedes car..) in after making sure there was no air bubbles in the cylinder or the sparkplug. It took a couple refills to completely break the piston free as it was near TDC when it seized. I'm now using that weedeater again. Your problm is that there really need to be a gasket on the head even if it's just an annealed sheet of copper roughly shaped. Sorry to hear about breaking of the piston. I would have stopped when it moved the second time on the press, and made sure the crank was OK and retried forcing it down with more grease gun pressure. That way you keep the damaging forces localized.
I'm currently fighting two velosolex engines that will not budge. My buddy gave me a 2200 and a 3800 and both sat outside for over 15 years. I'm to the point where I might as well buy some good used engines
Did anyone else have an internal OCD meltdown when that tap went in crooked? Lol. Seriously though I must deal with my OCD lol. And I really do like his relaxed approach. I need to be more chill.
If you look in the exhaust port. the piston will have reached Bottom Dead Center when the top of the piston is level with the bottom edge of the exhaust port.
never use constant preasure when trying to loosen things like pistons, the best way that worked every single time i tryed is HOT oil, and what i mean by that i mean boiling oil, you just fill the cylinder with boiling oil and screw back the spark plug so the heat doesnt escape leting it be hot for longer, after its coold, maybe less than half an hour you try to hamer the piston with anything that can go through the sparkplug hole, if want to save piston you put a pice of thick ruber in so you dont hit piston directly (i broke one piston like that didnt use the ruber :), the heat stretches the metal and while its hot oil is easily geting between cylinder and piston to the rings which are the thing that is actualy making them stuck, this also works when piston rings are glued only to the piston and there is no compresion, you can unstuck them in both cases like this, you can use any motor oil the principle is the same
Hi, as far as I remember your cylinder does`nt necesseraly need a foot, i had one which was bored that much, that the foot fell away, it ran very good.
Prøv lige at rense cylinder og stempel og se hvordan det ødelagte skørt sidder i forhold til indsugningsport. Hvis bunden af stemplet er knækket ved indsugningspoten, er den selvfølgelig til skrot, men måske er den brækket et heldigt sted så indsugning ikke er påvirket? (det er lidt svært at se på videoen)
IF ITS THAT STUCK AND IF ITS CAUSED BY CORROSION YOU HAVE TO USE ACID IT DOSE WORK BUT THE BEARINGS AN PISTON AND THE RINGS WOULD PROBABLY NOT BE REUSABLE.CAR BATTERY WORKS.
I am sorry for saying this but if you do not understand or have the skills to work on old mopeds and cycle masters please seek advice , cycle masters are getting few now and need looking after . I have worked on them way back in the early 50s & 60s . I have split crank shafts and fitted new needle rollers had them rebored converted them to the larger bore size . I have been thinking of getting one myself to work on but they seem expensive here in the UK .
Be careful with hydraulic power..there is a lot of risk with damage.....if you youse wd40 and something to heat the cilinder and some time and a little hammer and a peace of wood that be enough....5 Tons of hydraulic power is complete ridiculous .
Wrong... when a crank+piston is fused by rust i´ve seen forces close to 20 tons needed to free them up... WD40 or ATF and hammers only works if its not THAT stuck.... and that was the reason that those things were tried first... :)
@SeasideGarage My experience with a lot of Wd40 &Brake fluid )is working well.. spray in ( waiting a Night.)..that the most pistons ( rusty) in combination with a Great gas burner and make it real hot(not a little one in the video )and a good 🔨 with a peace of wood and.water to cool the piston in quicke.real time..the most rusty piston.s losing the game without damage...when I have not a lot of Time and no choice anymore...yes Hydraulic power is a solution..and afcource big Engine.s with big pistons in rusty condition 20 Ton of Hydraulic power thats absolute possible..to keep them Free...( My English is not perfect..come from the Dutch.( I mean 5 Ton.s ridiculous for that small moped engine...for bigger ones afcource 20 Ton.
I use the metal detector to find my projects.... But hey... I think you are watching the wrong stuff? Im having fun.. that's all that matters really...
@@SeasideGarage Rabeneick was founded 1930, closed in 1960, so this is a historic, hard to find rare engine you clumsily destroyed. Reminds me of that amateur woman who "restored" a historic religious painting with a rather comical outcome.Probably she also thought it was fun!
That's the trouble with impatience, it gets the better of us, and then makes scrap metal out of good stuff, I've done that enough times when my impatience took hold and I ended up breaking stuff, and found there was a very simple fault elsewhere... :(
Yeah, I've found in my work impatience costs time & money- time for the new part to arrive or to re-fabricate a part,
Much better when frustrated to take a short break, think about it, then begin again, remembering that this is a learning opportunity that WILL save me time on the NEXT ONES or similar parts in the future.
Murphy's law states, if it's stuck, force it.
If it breaks, it was effed anyway.
You win some, you lose some. Some parts have been stuck together for decades and they're never gonna move, at least not in one piece.
Agree.... I dont think anything could have saved this...
Its always easy to see in hindsight, but for future similar situations, I would consider applying rotational force to the crankshaft at the same time as the press. Apply pressure to the piston with the press and leverage to the crank at the same time. There's no guarantee of course, but it may increase the chances of success as opposed to the press just applying crush force as in this case. Having said that, by the glimpse we got of that crank, it was looking unlikey to move and would most likely have been scrap anyway..
Never mind Sepp. You did your best.
I have twelve cyclemasters five on the road. Brilliant piece of engineering.
12!!!
“You can’t win them all”. Oldest adage in the book for good reason. 👍🍻
Even though it’s easy to sit here and criticize you for applying 7 tonnes of force to that poor little piston, I like the fact that you share your successes as well as your failures/mistakes.
Don't toss the cylinder. You might be able to get a shop to put a sleeve in it.
I'm pretty sure that tiny crack can be welded. It's not on the load bearing part.
That's a real bummer. Thanks for the video. 👍
I know how you feel when you try to salvage old engines and you know sometimes you break parts and you get frustrated depressed and aggravated and how you feel I go through it too
0:45 Should be a warning here. I just drowned my laptop in coffee from laughing so much. GOLD!!
It is unfortunate those things occurred. It is macabre, it is at least comforting that it is not just me that ends up in how should we say, "destructive repairs" 🙂.
Knowing how things go, I was nervous when you had it in the vise pumping grease with only the side supported either it ends up on the floor or you end up nervous about the former, and end up squishing something.
I would suggest having a workmate around since you could oddly shaped objects between the jaws and clamp at odd angles, and if it does fail, it can't do any harm since it can't fall between the jaws. I think it would've prevented the initial casing breakage since you could support the sides where the chain attaches with wooden blocks and the sensitive part of the case would be protected.
The grease method has me wondering about potential damage, particularly on such small stuff. If it is as stuck as this was and it maintained a airtight seal at a very high pressure, I couldn't say, but I imagine you could run into a situation where it would damage the spark plug threading or warp the head? Given some engines propensity to self remove plugs I imagine it's possibility especially if it would be an aluminum head in question.
It was a nice try. This is exactly the kind of mistake that I am also masterful at making :)
My father and myself used the grease nipple technique on a puch twingle engine, we were unaware the crank was seized solid with rust and as that wouldn't rotate to accommodate the movement of the piston, the pressure of the grease forced the bottom flange off of the barrel. It didn't have through-bolts like yours.
I just now started following you but I really hope you achieve your goal on rebuilding
Chances are high that Cyclemaster was not using a custom piston and rings and cylinder. If you measure it, you might find a suitable substitute.
Try to solver weld / brazen the cylinder and the other broken part with aluminum rods😎👍
Scott over at cold war motors did this grease trick in the Straight Eight showdown. Plus he was using a portapower and not just a regular greasegun. He got the piston to go down a little, but there was no saving it. It had to be drilled out and ruined to get it out of the cylinder.
Cereal boxes make great gaskets. A cereal box gasket wouldn't work as a proper head gasket, but I would think it would be good enough to seal it against grease.
I had saved a Electrolux built Husqvarna weedeater (that I had seized with wrong oil/fuel mix ratio...) by filling the cylinder with heavy weight gear oil and forcing a BP6ES (long threaded 14mm sparkplug for a Mercedes car..) in after making sure there was no air bubbles in the cylinder or the sparkplug. It took a couple refills to completely break the piston free as it was near TDC when it seized. I'm now using that weedeater again. Your problm is that there really need to be a gasket on the head even if it's just an annealed sheet of copper roughly shaped. Sorry to hear about breaking of the piston. I would have stopped when it moved the second time on the press, and made sure the crank was OK and retried forcing it down with more grease gun pressure. That way you keep the damaging forces localized.
I'm currently fighting two velosolex engines that will not budge. My buddy gave me a 2200 and a 3800 and both sat outside for over 15 years. I'm to the point where I might as well buy some good used engines
Any news as to the 2CV?
Did anyone else have an internal OCD meltdown when that tap went in crooked? Lol. Seriously though I must deal with my OCD lol. And I really do like his relaxed approach. I need to be more chill.
haha yea.. and I even have a bench drill... why did I not use it?
Sorry Seppo but I couldn't stop laughing. Brilliant entertainment though and I look forward to the next episode. 😀
Cyclemaster history visualized….
You can't win them all 🧐
If you look in the exhaust port. the piston will have reached Bottom Dead Center when the top of the piston is level with the bottom edge of the exhaust port.
never use constant preasure when trying to loosen things like pistons, the best way that worked every single time i tryed is HOT oil, and what i mean by that i mean boiling oil, you just fill the cylinder with boiling oil and screw back the spark plug so the heat doesnt escape leting it be hot for longer, after its coold, maybe less than half an hour you try to hamer the piston with anything that can go through the sparkplug hole, if want to save piston you put a pice of thick ruber in so you dont hit piston directly (i broke one piston like that didnt use the ruber :), the heat stretches the metal and while its hot oil is easily geting between cylinder and piston to the rings which are the thing that is actualy making them stuck, this also works when piston rings are glued only to the piston and there is no compresion, you can unstuck them in both cases like this, you can use any motor oil the principle is the same
Maybe look into piaggio ciao cilinders? They seem roughly the same size and also have a 3 stud design?
Have the workshop manual for the cyclemaster ? covers every thing ?
Awww! I had high hopes at least part of it could be saved. Any point in welding up the cylinder base and machining it out again?
The tank, rim, and carb is still useable.. and exhaust! :D
HubNut sticker. I approve. ;)
As soon as you said you would a working o e, I kind of knew what would happen.
Oh well 🤷♂️
Sometimes they are just too far gone to be helped.
Hi, as far as I remember your cylinder does`nt necesseraly need a foot, i had one which was bored that much, that the foot fell away, it ran very good.
Good to know!
svarva cylindern och pressa i ett foder! hälsningar från sverige
Prøv lige at rense cylinder og stempel og se hvordan det ødelagte skørt sidder i forhold til indsugningsport. Hvis bunden af stemplet er knækket ved indsugningspoten, er den selvfølgelig til skrot, men måske er den brækket et heldigt sted så indsugning ikke er påvirket? (det er lidt svært at se på videoen)
Cylinderen er færdig... men du har ret... måske stemplet stadig kan bruges... men vi må se hvad der dukker på i posten... :P
The sprockets in against the press plays I meant to say
Hey buddy you using the price to push that piston down look at the sprocket where the chain goes that's hitting right against the hydraulic housing
Rename the channel to the breaking garage
You forgot to put unboxing in the title again! 2 Miilion views. 😊😊
haha!
IF ITS THAT STUCK AND IF ITS CAUSED BY CORROSION YOU HAVE TO USE ACID IT DOSE WORK BUT THE BEARINGS AN PISTON AND THE RINGS WOULD PROBABLY NOT BE REUSABLE.CAR BATTERY WORKS.
If at first you don't succeed use a bigger hammer... Not the end of the world. 👍
Right on
you should change your name to R A G garage(Rough As Guts)🤣 use breakfast cereal box soaked in oil for gasket .
that's de pressing ! you may be able to sleeve it but the cost ! but these things happen to cowboys !
Ha ha Chernobyl things! 😂
I am sorry for saying this but if you do not understand or have the skills to work on old mopeds and cycle masters please seek advice , cycle masters are getting few now and need looking after .
I have worked on them way back in the early 50s & 60s . I have split crank shafts and fitted new needle rollers had them rebored converted them to the larger bore size .
I have been thinking of getting one myself to work on but they seem expensive here in the UK .
You should of used hot oil on top of the piston.
Pistons are easy to get so you can drill it off by saw.
Someone told me to use ATF & Acetone mix to free off a seized piston
yes! but I doubt it would make a difference... the is stuck and there is STUCK
Did you not see the crank was not turning? Did you not look? I'm sad that you have your hands on this engine.
Никогда не видел так плотно засевшего поршня
Wouldn't it work to just turn a bolt into the hole and let it press on the piston?
Im pretty sure that would have put a bolt sized hole in the piston.... :) But on the other hand... I dont think it was possible to save this one..
@SeasideGarage yeah true. I didn't watch the end yet when I commented 😅
PLEASE SOMEONE HELP THIS !!!!!!!
Can't win them all
e so ter usado acido de lavar piso que come o ferrugem
😮😂
Be careful with hydraulic power..there is a lot of risk with damage.....if you youse wd40 and something to heat the cilinder and some time and a little hammer and a peace of wood that be enough....5 Tons of hydraulic power is complete ridiculous .
Wrong... when a crank+piston is fused by rust i´ve seen forces close to 20 tons needed to free them up... WD40 or ATF and hammers only works if its not THAT stuck.... and that was the reason that those things were tried first... :)
@SeasideGarage My experience with a lot of Wd40 &Brake fluid )is working well.. spray in ( waiting a Night.)..that the most pistons ( rusty) in combination with a Great gas burner and make it real hot(not a little one in the video )and a good 🔨 with a peace of wood and.water to cool the piston in quicke.real time..the most rusty piston.s losing the game without damage...when I have not a lot of Time and no choice anymore...yes Hydraulic power is a solution..and afcource big Engine.s with big pistons in rusty condition 20 Ton of Hydraulic power thats absolute possible..to keep them Free...( My English is not perfect..come from the Dutch.( I mean 5 Ton.s ridiculous for that small moped engine...for bigger ones afcource 20 Ton.
do you know what restore means this is not it
But some things are just effed from the get go.
It is really painful to watch you "repair" stuff! Better switch to another none destructive hobby,like metal detector beach searching!
I use the metal detector to find my projects.... But hey... I think you are watching the wrong stuff? Im having fun.. that's all that matters really...
@@SeasideGarage Rabeneick was founded 1930, closed in 1960, so this is a historic, hard to find rare engine you clumsily destroyed. Reminds me of that amateur woman who "restored" a historic religious painting with a rather comical outcome.Probably she also thought it was fun!