What Makes a Conlang Bad? | The Goals of Constructed Languages
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Perhaps the most important thing you can do when beginning a new conlang is to set a goal for it. Without one, it can become quite difficult for your language to do what you need it to. As an example, let’s check out David Peterson’s first conlang: Megdevi. It had a lot of awesome ideas, but ultimately he abandoned the project. Let’s talk about why, and how you can avoid the same fate for your conlangs. Check out Campfire, a customizable tool for writers to plan, organize, and share their writing:
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//VIDEO CREDITS//
Script and audio by Adam Bassett: / adamcbassett
Editing by @4bs_ben
Thumbnail by Cole Field: / acolefield
//ADDITIONAL RESOURCES//
More videos about conlangs: • How to Make a Language...
An interview with Paul Frommer (Creator of Na'vi): www.campfirewr...
David Peterson on Megdevi: dedalvs.com/me...
Devid Peterson’s conlang videos: • The Art of Language In...
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The hardest part is actually giving the language a purpose after you've created it, like, cool, I've now got a language, who's going to use it anyway? Unless you're creating it for a research or for a film/book, of course. I usually lose motivation quickly because of this, so I end up not having a language at all, ahahah.
I have made up a multiverse where I have my own country and a whole unit and it is used somewhere there. It keeps me motivated lol. (I actually created the country a few years ago ≈ 5 years)
@@Alexxpvz That surely helps, but, still, no one but me will speak it irl, unless a group of people created a universe together and each one learned each other's langauges ig. Which does sound fun I'll say
Same, but I'm actually trying to finish at least some of it to keep in my folder of pretty things I made. I'm now working on my third ever conlang (the first was scrapped because it wasn't exactly a language, the second because I didn't write down my rules so I don't even know how to read it anymore oops).
The goal and purpose right now is to successfully translate the first paragraph of The Little Mermaid :)
@@naolucillerandom5280 That sounds cool! I've never really managed to take a conlang to the point where I could write something in it unfortunately.
You can use it in your d&d campaign@@lucag.8941
I make polynesian/japanese style conlangs, and i do it all on paper. I have mountains of paper. So much paper. Help
This escalate quickly 😂
True, keep writing it on papers, and not on your device, if you want to keep it personal
Before I knew about conlangs, I started a conlang to secretly communicate with my friends as well. I did not know that was commonplace. I thought it was unique.
Ai hav kreated Winglish, hwich bi based on Inglish ande Romance lingwajes, bot wid simplifiked gramatik, pronunciation, ande speling.
@@juandiegovalverde1982 dis lingwaj luks intiresting, ken yu tel as mor abawt et?
@@its_Hazer dis lingwaj luk interesing. Kan yu tel wi mor abaut it?
@@its_Hazer In Winglish yu not ad an s in de trit singular person ov de presente simple indikativ
@@its_Hazer first = wonet, second = tut (but the unit of time is sekonde), third = trit, fourth = fouret, fifth = faivet, sixth = sikset, seventh = sevenet, eighth = eitet, ninth = nainet, tenth = tenet, eleventh = wontenet, twelfth = tutenet, thirteenth = tritenet
I've got an idea for conlang
1. Less than 20 nouns in total. Each if them is very abstract and metaphysical concept. To make anything life-related, you put a lot of basic nouns to build a proof that whatever you mean matters.
2. No genders for male/female differentiation. But there are:
~10 for castes
7! for combinations of related sins
30(2*3*5) for degree of official respect/despise
30 for degree of personal despise (honestly feeling respect? Lolwhat)
2 for completely metaphysical "lower/higher level" (These are added to numerical)
4. 300 sounds. Only 40 of them are used. Rest is for foreign words, so they A) are pronounced correctly for diplomatic relationship and B) remain foreign for your mind
5. Ton of verbs, but anyone with self-respect must use them as rarely as possible, bc nouns with genders are just better
6. Numerical system is base 3*4*5, with all the digit names from 0 to 59 having slight difference in tone and pronounced, so you always basically say "that much±5" (Non-elites don't need to count past 59 anyway, and only suffer from precise logic)
Elite numericals are different, precise and clear, but involve full-body gestures (and also muscle memory will always scream to have some kind of rhythm, but rhythm is for lowly, and elite's duty is live in existential suffering and cause it)
Let's get this guy in CCC2
Actually silly aside quick point about #4. Ain't that every language? You can pronounce foreign words correctly but we just don't because it's either difficult or we get weird looks. Weird looks is like American culture so can't really change that but the difficulty would remain if it was just for like rare diplomatic interactions.
Just my personal opinion, these are all good, but (assuming it's meant to be a naturalistic language) there might be too many rules at once. Such a language might take many years of practice to even get used to, while most natural languages are just complex enough to be both efficient _and_ effective. Just my opinion, though.
I'm creating a lauguages for my book. This actually really helped me.
My stance on formulaic language is that they can work (irl Hebrew and Arabic are very formulaic languages but it needs to come from good reason like Jewish people and Arabs put the written word in very high regards so learning it and understanding it’s formulaic form and how to invent words that would still be part of it is important), the megdavi words change for different form of bite sounds exactly like how roots system in Hebrew work and in general if the goal was to create language in similar structure to Hebrew it could have been good and pretty accurate
Yeah I think, since it was Peterson's first attempt at a conlang, he was very much reusing things he'd learned from other languages. Not really because they were good for Megdevi but because he liked them. Which in a personal language is fine-but of course that's kind of why it didn't work out the way he hoped it would, haha!
Still, it was a solid first go at it. Better than my smattering of random sounds. 😂
Sorry, that's not how it happened. Like, not at all. Not even close to the correct history. Nonsense, actually.
Semitic language LONG predates Judaism and Islam. Arabic LONG predates Islam - it was already used all over the Arabian peninsula WHEN MUHAMMAD WAS BORN. (And he was illiterate, according to Islamic tradition.)
This language family goes back to Akkadian, at least.
Semitic language created alphabetic writing BECAUSE THE CONSONANTS CARRY ALL THE SEMANTICS.... not the other way around.
@@metsfan1873 thats exacly what i was gonna say, so ill just second your comment: people today, exposed to writing all around them, have the misconception that the written form of a language is the "true" or "correct" form, and any deviations from it in speech must just be collective "mistakes". in reality, language existed long before writting, and should writing fall out of use, it will continue to exist without it. its a part of language, but it is not the most important one.
How can you even think that lol
that would necessitate that either that writing was prior to, or at the very least coëval with, the initial development of the languages, or else that the languages were universally & intentionally re-worked once writing came along. wtf lol
1:33
As a Russian speaker, imagining it as битьзда makes it simple to pronounce for me, but then i end up going быитьшда after a while, which is then wrong.
That's a fair point, I'm coming into that attempt as a US English speaker, so it's possible that's making it more difficult, haha!
@@AroundTheCampfire Ahaha i can see how that makes it harder.
I also learnt Welsh as a child and am learning Spanish and Catalan right now, so obviously a lot of syllables have been exposed to me.
For a Polish speaker, pronouncing that word makes it sound extremely close to a very vulgar word... 😨
@@kamiccola oh yeah that reminds me of the Russian word пиздa
@@56independent42 same in Polish. 😂
I can pronounce bitdza, it's bit-dza (dz being the sound of the voiced alveolar affricate).
To ease learning, simplify rules and avoid things to memorize . So don't create exceptional words like "little" in English . Don't create multiple grammatical genders like latin and German . Don't add excessive word inflections like Latin, or excessive caste variations like Japanese .
Import entire vocabulary and idioms from a language known to users via a formulaic rule such as adding -aargh to all words .
This video inspires me to continue making my conlang. Hopefully you get more views too to inspire you making more of these videos
Ai hav kreated Winglish, hwich bi based on Inglish ande Romance lingwajes, bot wid simplifiked gramatik, pronunciation, ande speling.
@@juandiegovalverde1982I understood every last bit. English structure will be the foundation of my conlang. With simple grammar just putting word together like building blocks. Some letters may have different sounds but it will be simple. Writing online is done totally in English alphabet but on paper done in different symbols with the same sounds mostly.
DO I HEAR!!! CONLANGING?!?!!!!!
i'll try write the comment in my conlang
maya mawilshatempte gomment yusas mashat-bashamaya
i try not to make it hard and make it natural as much as possible
maya ne maatempte mash nga difikulo sasa maayak nga sanaturalo taha nga possible
my language is a lot cooler when writing use its own script
bashamaya sabone taha mayusas mashbukna
i think i want to this language to be limitless in thought
maya maayak bashani nehaba limit dipensi
and i'm very satisfy how it was turned out
la maya sasatisfigo dibashani na kio eshist
i even make a poem with this
maya sama mayusas bashani mashbuk an poem
bitdza doesn't seem difficult to pronunce
first syllable bit
second syllable dza
dz and ts are sounds we use even in English. If you can pronounce ch you can pronounce these.
Which "ch"? The one in "which" or another one?
@@johndododoe1411 yes
@@johndododoe1411They’re talking about [x]. They wrote it as /ch/ because that’s how Germanic languages write it
The easiest/simplest way to make a conlang is to Have simple grammar rules and Latin script to make it easier when texting. Also have your own script for actual writing on paper maybe using 24 symbols like English. My grammar rules would be building blocks. Simply put the words together just like you do in English. Example in Spanish (Te amo) only two words. English(I-love-you) three. Just simple and straightforward. No conlang is a bad language. It’s only bad if it isn’t unique and if you give up trying to make it be as great as the next conlang.
How the hell does someone make so many languages like that??
You have to make up a new ways to saw each word in the different languages
I did a conlang also that was supposed to be a combination of all Romance languages including latin, its coming along fairly well and it’s for a story I’m creating
Hey I've been doing the same thing for one of my stories, but without including the latin part, mainly due to the fact it's meant to be set far in the future
Gotta say tho including french and romanian has to be one of the more difficult tasks, due to the heavy influence on the languages causing them to vary a bit more
@@diavolo3436 Yes! Though for me it adds a bit more of a unique flavor
the writing system and the verb grammar are both clearly re-skinned arabic. not to fault Peterson and Megdevi, but i'd like that fact to be made clear
When studying linguistics, I started making an alien conlang ahd after watching a few videos realized that I have to scrap it all.
The aliens I invented have the nasal openings on the back of their head and are essentially noseless, so nasal sounds can't be used at all.
Also the grammar in it is so alien, that it's borderline unlearnable. I'll transliterate one sentence.
"E er re'au aule krau araš qrir"
which translates as "(statement word) (past time) want eat hot dog"
Basically, several kinds of sentence defining words are used before a sentence consisting of mostly unchanging words. I developed it back in my teen years and am still working on it. It's probably gonna stay primitive, so I'll just call it a day at some point and make it an ancient language, from which a more derived and advanced one will come out.
I mean, if your goal is to make an alien language, it probably *should* be hard for humans to learn! But I get your point for sure, haha.
Haha im trying to make a conlang 😂
i have only made a few words so far:
Oun AllahiJhatÿr jinkhr (or AllahiJhatÿr for short) and it means „Good night“ but more specifically means „May God rest your soul“ :)
I‘m only making this so i can secretly speak it
Sorry, but this feels like saying goodbye to a dead person 😅
Türkmüsün
I'm currently experimenting with a language that has no subjunctions (subordinating conjunctions), instead using cases.
We'll see how it goes.
Ai hav kreated Winglish, hwich bi based on Inglish ande Romance lingwajes, bot wid simplifiked gramatik, pronunciation, ande speling.
@@juandiegovalverde1982 What has that to do with my comment and why do you talk in such a weird way?
@@kaengurus.sind.genossen Ai bi not toking, Ai bi raiting.
@@kaengurus.sind.genossen Ai tinke dat yuz lingwistik projekte bi veri interesante.
@@kaengurus.sind.genossen hav yu som eksemple?
Tolkien first created his languages, and than created the universe for the language. So are they still artistic, or perhaps, you have the wrong definition 3:20 - with all due respect, I'll assume the latter...
"Bitzda" is way easier to pronounce than "jetzt sprechen", where you are also supposed to pronounce every phoneme.
German is a terrible conlang.
Or other
The True form of newspeak
1. Memorise every single rule of a basic language.
2. Pronounce everything as ib rules
3. Intentionally and variously break the rules that relate to building sentences out of these words.
"How do you do? I am Pete"- "Do is you. How? Pete am"
"World is everyone what change wants. Change, noone yourself -wants what"
Битва снова всё есть(так но не),
Грудь- сердцем тревожится и,
Юность: Ленин опять таковой,
Октябрь? молодеть впереди"
И вновь продолжается бой,
И сердцу тревожно в груди,
И Ленин такой молодой,
И юный Октябрь впереди.
И Ленин такой молодой,
И юный Октябрь впереди.
@@ESALTEREGO спс за перевод с русского полома на русский, не подумал его добавить
The fact there's a priest who only communicates in Esperanto suggests it's has some success.
I think everyone's first conlang was like this.
My elf is still waiting for me to update her language
I try to make mine solve a problem. I do a lot of IE languages where there is a gap or resurrect extinct languages.
Mistake #1: making it too similar to another language. If it is to sound much like French, then it must not be otherwise like French.
Mistake #2: ignoring that language is a cultural phenomenon.
Mistake #3: making it too complicated
Mistake #4: making it weird.
My idea is of a "general Germanic" which encompasses a one-to-one relationship of sounds of Germanic languages. For this, "ts" represents English unvoiced and "dz" represents voiced English "th" (as between "bath" and "bathe". A full complement of indicative endings allows one to get away without needing nominative pronouns except in rare instances (comparison) and the subjunctive mood. Cases are limited to accusative and nominative (even Zamenhof saw this necessary for preventing some sloppy writing).
The idea is to make Germanic languages easy to translate into another literary language.
2:31 720 is my favorite number, ironically!!!! 😂😂😍😍
bruh, bitdza is perfectly pronounceable word. Assuming dz is a an africate
Here is my idea for a conlang; there are certain sounds in english that are very specific to it, like in hear, fear, tear, cherry jerry thunder this that their judge jury, large yellow lemons thought,
Knowing growing showing throwing chewing DERINGER
Maybe throw in some of that welsh thlethl from llanfairpwllwingill??
Or some some of that Scottish dutch loch they cant get genoog of
J R l NG TH Y
L n d t m b p w
F ll gh er ir ar or air
I like how he used the super rare combinations: PS BZ
humans who speak languages have trouble creating languages that humans can speak
Ai hav kreated wingglish, hwich bi based on ingglish ande romance linggwajes, bot wid simplifiked gramatik, pronunciation ande speling.
hweir it bi documentid? ai wants lern it.
@@itsMeKvman Ai bi raiting an buk abaut it. Werdes ov germanik origin (koming from oulde ingglish or oulde norse) bi raited az dei bi pronunced in moderne ingglish, bot werdes koming direkti or indirektli from latin ande grek hav moch mor traslinggwal speling ande pronunciation.
@@itsMeKvman c bi olweiz pronunced ts
@@itsMeKvman g bi olweiz pronunced oklusiv, az in gas.
@@itsMeKvman de vokales bi pronunced laik in spanish.
What movie is that squid alien thing from? At the end of the vid
Arrival!
@@AroundTheCampfire umm… ok?
The movie title got caught off there somehow, apologies! It's Arrival.@@widojay2048
@@AroundTheCampfire thank you so much!
for me its not elves, but mute cat raccoons
how cool
Nud niganak Firbjenka kos seni nud mirtik kot Kaveno.
(Don't speak Firbjenka if you're not from Kaveno.)
I've been working on my conlang for over a decade, and I've noticed that I don't have possessive nouns. Is that something that I should consider?
Ha!! My conlang isn't for elves its for fairies!
Mostly its for casting spells though.
yooooo Wenedyk mentioned!! jemu iła lęgwa
It's funny to me that humans can be both obsessed with conlangs and barely capable of speaking their own native tongue. The way we know everything about Star Wars but very little about actual science. I blame Tolkien.
First
Very helpful!!