Who will stop Littlefinger? Varys? Doran? Sansa? The answer may surprise you. Littlefinger has made a mistake and its is coming back to haunt him. www.patreon.co...
Yes, the fact that George specifically mentions that Sansa lose's her shoe would lead people to think that it would be of significance. But you have to take into account how ridiculous it would be to assume that they even found her shoe. It fell 600 feet! It could of gone anywhere!
+TheJackFroster I really doubt they found her body. I like PJ's videos, but I don't believe the shoe has anything to do with it, but for sure Myranda is trying to unveil Alayne. Sansa's shoe has less chance to be relevant than Quentyn to be alive, lol, Quentyn has more chances XD
+TheJackFroster Yes, it could have gone anywhere. But this also means, it could have just dropped right onto the fat head of Ser Nestor or in his sight, yard, whatever.
Man, Preston says some weird things sometimes, but the whole fingering someone being harder than playing the harp thing is probably one of the weirdest.
+Hossam Eddine Benmessaoud A good point, but they would have to comb the mountain to find Lysa. I don't think it would end of miles away, but possibly several hundred feet.
+Preston Jacobs true he would have to comb the mountain. But if the moon were use frequent enough there most likely be a bunch of shoes and other garments skewed throughout the mountain
I imagine there's so much debris and splatter at the bottom of that mountain it's impossible to tell what's what. The moon door is thousands of feet high, so the debris field would be huge and it sounds like people get thrown out of there all the time. There's probably shoes, bits of face and bones from allsorts going back years - doubt anyone is putting it all together.
+Really Funny, Original Name True, but with the winds at that height, it would be almost impossible for the shoe to land in the same spot as the body. Oh hey a shoe, must have something to do with that corpse 1 mile south...
Yeah, I was also thinking the part about the shoe was a bit of a stretch. Even if they found the shoe, and knew it belonged to Sansa, that still only means that she was there, and Sansa never denied that. They Royce's suspicion and Myranda's subtle interrogation of Alayne is because she's with Littlefinger, and Littlefinger is extremely untrustworthy, not because of a shoe.
I don't believe there would be a body to examine. The deceleration trauma would leave Lysa's body in tiny fragments. She'd reach >200km/hr falling onto rocks and rocky mountain. There may be some parts intact, but they likely aren't even retrievable without a helicopter. Critters and birds would eat her morsel-sized remains. I think Lysa's shoes and clothing would also be bashed to smithereens, or bounced randomly far away from Lysa's randomly strewn mincemeat.
+AeroDoe I also don't see how the 3rd shoe will fall anywhere near the body. Since it's lighter and has weird shape any slight wind will know it hundreds of meters or even kilometres away. Plus can you imagine randomly finding a shoe in a forest??? Plus even if they did find a shoe who would care. That mood door is used so much that I bet assholes throw their trash from there. So it's extremely possible that someone just threw or dropped a random shoe days or weeks ago. It's like police finding a dead body and a gum near it and assuming with 100% certainty that this was the gum of the killer. Not that it was thrown on the ground by the hundreds of thousands of people walking on that street.
+Ico Petrov it seems very possible to me. We are talking about fiction and it seems to make too much sense as kind of a reverse Cinderella situation to not be the case. Otherwise why would George have even had her lose the shoe?
+Blood Raven also what evidence do we have of how often the moon door was used? It is in the thrown room so it isn't a space that just anyone is allowed to use however they want.
+AeroDoe I've see pictures of when people fall from great heights. While it is in no way a pretty sight the body does stay more or less in one main piece.
TheToemeister I've seen some of those too. Limbs at really weird angles (if they still have limbs), heads twisted to the back. I've actually seen one intact body with my own eyes in person. If the body falls in a swamp, a field of grasses, and other compressible mediums, it might not shatter into little pieces. This body fell from a great height onto rock, however. That makes a big difference.
Nester Royce: ...and as my final damning piece of evidence, Carrot brought down this shoe from the Eyrie, the matching shoe to the one I found on the ground below! Littlefinger: So, you found the first shoe? NR: Yes. LF: And your man found the second shoe? NR: Yes. LF: And no one was around to corroborate either of these discoveries besides people loyal to you? NR: ...Yes. LF: And since we live in a perpetual feudal age with little to no technology, there is no way to get DNA evidence to conclusively prove that this pair of shoes even belonged to Alayne in the first place? NR: ...yes... LF: Ladies and gentlemen of the Vale, I rest my case.
Nah mate Bran will just quote something Littlefinger said to Sansa and Lysa alone and everyone will believe that without question and Littlefinger won't defend himself and just start sobbing until he's killed, that's how trials work we have just decided
Myranda:"There's a new High Septon did you know? Oh, and the Night's Watch has a boy commander, some bastard son of Eddard Stark's." Alayne/Sansa: "Jon Snow?" Me: Holy fucking shit, you did NOT just do that!
MrDibara Why not? Myranda knew? Sansa is Littlefinger's ward and Littlefinger is one of the most well-informed men in the Seven Kingdoms. One would presume Alayne heard it from him.
Ryan Denziloe Problem is, why would Littlefinger tell her septa daughter about some new lord of the Night's Watch? Why would that interest Alayne? Also, how could she possibly know the name of Eddard's bastard if she's never heard of him? Myranda is a noble lady, she's supposed to hear some of these events once in a while, especially considering the Eerye is so close to the North. Alayne is a bastard who grew up being mentored by the Faith of the Seven down there in the South and only recently has Littlefinger come to take her with him. How is she supposed to know anything about the Wall? And even if she heard something about the North, why would she hear especifically about who Eddard's bastard is when it's most likely to hear about the Starks' fall, the Boltons ruling the North or even Stannis fighting the ironborns in the Woodlands?
I disagree with a lot of your theories but I have to say: this is really, really insightful. It's a brand new analysis of Randa's questioning of Sansa and I love it.
You're right Littlefinger did make a mistake, but it is that the lords of The Vale figured out he might have Sansa.Yohn Royce recognized her. House Royce and House Stark are blood related. They also almost led the rest of the Vale into open revolt when Lysa Arryn refused to join the North in rebellion. They don't care if Sansa Stark killed her.
Littlefingers obsession with Sansa, is his fatal flaw. He is teaching her the game, and if she understands it before his plans are complete, all she would have to do is announce herself and accuse him of murdering Lysa Arryn.
I could see it going the other way and LIttlefinger being the death of her. Also, I kind of like Sansa. She isn't as passive as everyone thinks,just playing her role to survive. We don't like her for it, but given all she has been through, I don't think Sansa likes being Sansa much either.
Cratlord That's a point... he could well be the end of her, if it suits his political agenda I see him throwing her under the bus without hesitation. If and when Rickon comes back, and he scuppers Littlefinger's Northern plans, I see Sansa's life possibly being in danger as she will be a burden to him. And I agree with you, I think a large reason behind her being so sheepish and passive is just because she needed to survive in the situation she found herself in. And while I do not hold that against her, and I fully understand why she did it, I still don't *really* like her as a character. The only reason I get excited about her chapters now is because they involve Littlefinger! :D
Luminousreign exactly they will protect her from LF scheming defo to use her to get the Eyrie Yohan Royce won't be happy could gather like 10 thousand men along with other houses such as Redford but it's hard to know if they will join
It's obvious that the shoe would drop like a stone, straight down. The violent winds surround the mountain would definitely not have any effect whatsoever on a single, small, shoe. Nope. None whatsoever.
they have no idea its sansa shoe, and its a mountain range. There is tons of debris. the shoe could be from something else entirely. the moon door has existed for 1000s of years, there is years of debris from there.
It really doesn't matter if there is a third shoe or not, since as was pointed out before my comment, it could've belonged to someone else who was thrown out of the moon door before. It also makes no sense for the shoes to remain intact after falling from that height, even if they did fall straight down (which they wouldn't). They'd likely burst into a myrriad of pieces after falling from that height, scattering along the mountainside. Unless Nestor has a crew of people glueing every item that falls from the moon door like puzzles, I doubt that they'd even notice Sansa's shoe.
If Myranda really is this Machiavellian character you present her as then I'm very impressed with her. When she presented the current world events back to back, one regarding the faith (the story Randa knows would interest Alayne) and another regarding Ned Stark's bastard (which would interest Sansa Stark) Sansa just fell for it hook line and sinker. She might as well have yelled " I am indeed Ned Stark's daughter, my lady!" right then and there.
if playing a harp is easier than using your fingers for "other things" so far as you are concerned you are doing something very wrong or else are really naturally talented at the harp.
@@donaldjgumpofficial5754 it actually doesn't. The corpses to be found there are those of the worst criminals, which could well be left for the crows. Also if cleaning up was as issue, they would have shifted to beheading etc. long age, since you wouldn't want to loose a single good man in climbing for a dead criminal. Also, considering the difference in weight between a corpse and the show should let them land well apart from each other. I guess things falling from the Eiry by accident shouldn't be to uncommon a thing, considering its placement. Tl;dr: Just because you wrap enough tinfoil around a shoe, doesn't make a "theory" valid.
Someone drops a shoe from a great height toward a mountain. Its going to end up nowhere near the body, there will be little if anything left of the body in fact, certainly not enough for a proper burial.
+Mark Joseph Middleton And even IF they the remains of a body and THREE shoes are found, what does that mean? Nothing; so a shoe has fallen from the eyrie. Big deal; it's a high castle, things tend to fall from great heights. Maybe a hat, a book, a chair and a dead cat felt from the Eyrie once. So what? That means nothing at all...
Having to clean up the remains of body that fall down from so high must suck Join us next weeks where Preston Jacobs tell us the entire plot of the Winds of winters
+Redem10 People still have to do similar jobs today... I watched a video (on LiveLeak) recently of some cleaners, cleaning up a body in China... pretty grim stuff, the body was partly squashed or crushed after the poor bastard was run over by a lorry I think. I would hate to have a job like that.
+tcpgblizzard Why the fuck would you watch anything of that like, from snuff videos, animal abuse or other. The dark Web is a fucked up place and things like that shouldn't even exist.
Littlefinger's plans often rely on his opponent's stupidity or distraction with other matters. Thus he takes a lot of risks as par for course - calculated risks, but risks none the less. Eventually he's going to get unlucky or mess with someone who's more observant then he first assumed.
so great... can't believe I let this one so easy while re-reading.. I also love how George has put together the daughter of Eddard, Robert and son of Jon Eryn at the same place they were fostered :)
+Jackson Porter In another video, Preston uses the argument that Marillion could not be heard singing because of "screaming winds" in the sky cells. Those same winds would carry a lady shoe away differently than a Lysa body. The chances of finding shoe & body close together are worse than Moonboy and Lord Tarly falling in love.
Yes but they are cleaned up and I don't think there was an execution right before the death of Lysa because I think it would have been mentioned. So when Lysa's body is cleaned up there are only the 3 shoes there (or maybe a couple more but not so many that one couldn't tell there's an extra shoe)
not necessarily, he probably spends a lot of time on the asoiaf subreddit looking at fan fan theories and finding ones he thinks might be true, then rereads the stories looking for more evidence and expanding them.
Not dissing, but it’s probably a minor aneurysm. Not in insult, I had one too. It makes it so you can see through time. He already has a draft for TWOW
Baelish has made some pretty big judgement errors. He left Sweets alone in the Vale. He left Sansa alone in Winterfell. He went back to Kings Landing. He fucked with Cersei. He married Sansa to Ramsay. He kissed Katelyn at prom even though he's going out with Rebecca. He's not the smartest tool in the shed, I must say. Lol jk D&D fucked him up baaaad. He could probably kill me right now and he's not even real person nor does he know I exist. Fuck D&D.
Preston Jacobs He truly is the Underpants Gnomes of the TV show. He knows what he wants, doesn't know what the hell he's doing to get it, and he expects to have an uncomfrotable chair and a redhead for when he wins.
LittleFinger and Sansa can easily say they're lying about the shoes. LittleFinger is preparing to reveal Sansa anyway, and the shoe is speculative at best. So unless they get a confession, the shoe is pointless. They can know the truth but saying they found a shoe is not going to cut it. And Sweet Robin wouldn't believe it and Sansa has him in the palm of her hand.
It's also such an easy lie. "Oh yes! I wanted to see the moon door and oh, clumsy me, I slipped and my shoe fell down! How good of you to have found it!". Sansa's bad at lying, but only when she doesn't know she's being questioned. She can lie if she knows she's being accused.
Just read the last Sansa chapter of ASoS two days ago and completely missed the 3rd shoe. She was pushed out to the edge. But 'Lysa's Rock' did seem strangely overjoyed for his reward. Great catch as usual, Preston! Keep it up!
Your perception blows my mind. I'm going to have to go back and re-watch all of your videos. The details of this conversation went right over my head when I read it. Love your channel! Keep up the good and interesting work!
Now that's more like it! These are your best videos Preston, where you pick up on little details like the missing shoe. I can actually see the Royce's using that in the next book and coming to the fore. Well done. Much better than any bs about telepathic puppeteering or whatever.
theres no way that three objects falling from the mountain would end up in the same spot, plus transporting goods is very expensive so all trash from the castle would be thrown down also, so theres plenty of garbage covering hole mountains base ;)
All Alayne has to do is say "after he pushed my aunt out, he came towards me. I had nothing to perfect me. I threw my shoe at him. It must have fallen out the moon door."
wow! your videos are so complete and self-explanatory and add intrigue to the story with facts that usually go unnoticed. Thanks for your videos keep the good work.
You're banking too much on geography being favorable to your hypothesis - that the odd-shoe-out would land in a location that is both accessible and within view of Nestorino's search party/parties - the shoe, being lighter, could've overshot the area where Lysa went splat and thus not seem related to Lysa's demise. It would just be an odd abandoned shoe found a mile or so away from the 'crime scene.' Alternatively, the shoe could've landed on any number of mountain ledges or within a crevasses placed anywhere between the Moon Door and the ground. We do not know the layout. We can not surmise if the trajectory of the footwear was sufficient enough to cause a kerfuffle. I am so happy I've had a chance to actually type out that last sentence.
Wow... Preston Jacobs, you amaze me with the kind and amount of attention to detail you have. Excellent! I wonder if GRRM himself thought of these things consciously...
I feel like I just watched a massive spoiler and not a theory man. Your work is insane. To me this is exactly the kind of thing that would slip up the most calculating guy in Westeros, a shoe.
+maddyisalive11 I think he had...if you read the prologue he was the only one who wanted to check out thoose dead wildling and he faced the Other bravely then when he became a wight he went straight onto Will...idk maybe its just me but i really think he wanted something there but not sure what
this while sub plot went right over my head both times I read FfC. Thanks, Preston! Between this, the Greyjoy stuff, and the Dornish Master Plan, You've transformed Book 4 into an Important addition to the SOIAF series. Very perceptive!
Oh my god I really hope this plays out. Jesus, Preston, you put all this shit together because of one line about a missing shoe, why aren't you a real detective, you'd make Adrian Monk look like an amateur.
Quite opposite. Like everyone else already pointed out, the shoe is carried by the wind and likely never found. If everything he said depended on it, he'd not be Sherlock, he'd be a conspiracy nutjob. Fortunately, all does not depend on it.
+Brian R. OH NO THEY NEVER MENTIONED LYSA*S BODY THAT MEANS SHES ALIVE - AND YOU KNOW WHO ELSE CANT DIE - WHITE WALKERS. AND WE KNOW THAT THERE WAS AN OTHER QUEEN SO LYSA = NIGHT QUEEN OMG LYSA AND JON SNOW WILL MARRY AND RULE THE NORTH AND THE VALE BY THE POWER OF ICE. LYSA IS THE THIRD HEAD OF THE DRAGON WITH DANY AND JON. THEN GRRM WILL MAKE A PORN CALLED MOM TEACHES YOUNG CROW HOW TO PLEASE HIS HORNY FIFTEEN YO BUT-MARRIED-TWICE WIFE
Sometimes people forget that a book is not all about facts and easter eggs hidden carefully inside tiny fragments of descriptions.Mostly,it's about just literature and how the narrative helps the reader make a brautiful and detailed image in his head. The fallen shoe is a narrative tool to help the reader picture how close Sansa was to the Moon Door. Now,onto the scientific aspect of the story,gravity is gravity,air is air,trajectory is trajectory.A non debatable factor in both reality and fiction.But...but...FICTION!Nope.Any person being thrown from such height would be mostly tomato juice with it's bits and pieces here and there.Plus,any ornaments or accessories said person would have,would separate from the body due to air resistance. But,let's just accept the premise that this Nestor Royce finds 3 shoes in close proximity of the body.Odds are,a lowly ranked lord,tasked with 'cleaning up the mess' could not make those proposed assumptions.They all know some weird shit happened in that castle,and the Moon Door was constantly open,because Lysa's kid has a sick imagination and likes to see things fly.There's literally a million guesses Nestor could've made upon the sight of a third shoe. Lysa could've thrown that shoe,teasing Sansa or some other girl in her service.Or,maybe,that shoe just happened to be there,belonging to another victim.Maybe another woman visited the site,to clean up the mess or see a loved one who died,and lost her shoe there.And,that is,IF he spotted the shoe.C'mon,don't expect me to believe that somehow Lysa's body was dropped in 'Sherlock Holme's' backyard.Clearly this guy was more focused on the body,and speculating how and who might've dropped her,than snooping around for her clothing. But,hey,let's accept that Nestor IS a GoT detective and has reached a conclusion regarding the shoe.That's not valid evidence to begin with.When you're messing with a lord or a higher up,accusing them of murder is a pretty big deal,and the evidence you need to provide have to beyond any shadow of doubt,or else you'd be fucked nine ways to Sunday.Even if Nestor is an ambitious and genious lord,he'd know better than to take Littlefinger to the court,with the accusations of murder,only to have presented a 'third shoe' to the court,which,btw anyone could make the case that HE planted it.The shoe needs to be matched with Sansa's other one,and even then,there's no proof of murder,just Sansa being near the Moon Door at some point during her presence of the Lysa nad her boy. Anyone could argue that Sansa had lost her shoe at a previous point of time,during some Moon Door showcase maybe? Weak stuff Preston.Cheap click bait.A bad showing of an,otherwise,cool theory maker.
i dont really see your shoe theory working such a high a fall and that mountain terrain make it almost impossible to find everything the chance of a lysa body part search party stumbling across them is pretty much zero imo, just like there will be parts of lysa missing as well.....
I think it's really unlikely the shoe will even be found, at such heights the wind is likely to carry it away. In any case, I agree that the Lords of the Vale will not de duped so easily.
Wait, if Nestor Royce isn't working together with Bronze Yohn Royce ( Nestor shutting down Yohn when he enquires about Alayne )... How does he know she is Sansa Stark? Is there a line about Sansa having met Nestor before (as Sansa)? When LF tells Sansa about the Lord Declarants she asks if Bronze Yohn is one of them, scared because "He knows her". But nothing about Nestor. Nestor might have had suspicions if he found the shoe, but suspicions doesn't mean Sansa. Miranda needs to have a reason to think it's Sansa BEFORE she goes with her "High Septon/Jon Snow" charade. She just wants a confirmation, she already thinks it's Sansa. How? How can Miranda/Nestor know it's Sansa, unless someone told them? Hell, LF - who is usually quite clever - doesn't even think Bronze Yohn will recognize Alayne as Sansa, despite having met her a few times. This is the missing link in that theory... There isn't much between "3rd shoe" and "Let's have Miranda question Alayne to see if she knows Jon Snow". Unless Bronze Yohn works with Nestor - which you seem to think they don't - Nestor can't have any idea it's Sansa. And to be honest it'd be quite disappointing if Bronze Yohn actually just recognized her and told Nestor. The whole genius of LF brought down because he thought Yohn wouldn't remember Sansa, but oops, actually he did? quite cheap.
Idk man, a lot of people have fallen through the moon door. It's likely a moderately sized skeletal graveyard. There's probably a lot of shoes down there. Doubtful it's just Lisa's body and 3 shoes.
If Petyr goes down for killing Lysa, it would be a sucky way to go out because Petyr was absolutely right for killing her. Lysa molested Petyr when he was a virgin, she was running her mouth about his secret plans, and she tried to throw Sansa out of the Moon Door. You can't dream up a better defense for killing her.
1) A shoe falling from that high might fly far away from the castle; 2) There's a record of people "flying" through a moon door so we may assume there's a nice collection of shoes scattered below the castle 3) Girls flower at very different ages and menstruation doesn't correlate with breast growth. Seriously, ask ten female friends about their puberty and you'll hear ten competently different stories about how their bodies changed; 4) Alayne being a bastard and low born knows not to show any kind of emotions when higher born insults her, it's how privilege works: you're born into better family and you can be absolutely oblivious to the limitations and threats that less fortunate face and most of all to the self-censorship when they talk with those in charge.
Good luck finding a shoe on a mountain. Plus, Sansa was a witness, and Sansa could argue her shoe was lost when Merillian attacked her and Lysa; just spin the lie a bit more. Plus, most of the characters in the story are gullible people; much like the readers, a lot of facts are missed by the characters in the seas of elaborate schemes. Would they understand the implication of three shoes? Remember, only Sam understood the circumstances of the wights posing as corpses near Castle Black (that they were freshly dead, not that they were rites), and the others did not get it. Maybe Nestor Royce is tasked with recovering Lysa's body, but simply oversees some peasants picking up the body and the lord doesn't inspect the details. Then, the shoe implicates Sansa, who actually did not murder Lysa; Littlefinger did. So, will they just think a preteen girl murdered Lysa? Also, how many bodies go out the Moon Door? Do they clean up every body? Has Sweetrobin ever been allowed to toss junk or toys out of the Moon Door before? Could there be piles of different carcasses and clothes? And couldn't a shoe or two fall very far apart from where the body falls? Winds, a entire mountainside with several castles below, and so on? I think if the lie was discovered, that it would simply be suspicion of Littlefinger. He was always disliked, and quickly inherited a kingdom soon after getting married. That is enough to doubt whatever story he tells. Even if he hadn't lied, there would be suspicious lords.
Oh you sly dog you just when I think your done you encore us with this brilliant analysis! You never cease to amaze. Only thing that puzzles me is the Royces and Starks are bound by blood, first men families and traditions I would think they would be pro Stark and really would be trying to save her if they knew how precarious her situation is, how deep in the fire she was in.
+joe bittar Except, if they believe she's responsible for Lysa's murder, then she'd be a kinslayer--Lysa would be her Aunt after all. And the gods (old and new) hate nothing more than a kinslayer. But this is presuming that the Royces know all. Clearly Myranda has sussed out that Alayne isn't who she says she is, but whether they've put all the pieces together or not... is another matter. It also says a lot about how well Sansa's playing "the game" if the Royces have already undone her cover story. If this video comes to pass it would seem that Sansa might never "learn the game" properly.
Actually they aren't as far as I can tell. The children of Jocelyn Stark were three daughters, who married into other houses--other houses who just attended a wedding in Gulltown that everyone was "surprised" to see them at (Waynwood, Corbray, and Templeton)--but it's not surprising if you consider that all of their mothers were likely Jocelyn Stark's daughters. It also makes me wonder if all three of them have an unspoken familial alliance and are secretly planning on bringing LF down from within (which has long been my theory--Martin didn't tell us about these three houses being kin to the Starks for no reason IMO). We're never told that Jocelyn had any more children or even a son to carry on the family line, nor are we told that Nestor or his parent had to change their name back again to be Royce (perfect time to bring that up would have been when Myranda discusses how Harry will inherit--mentioning that he'll have to change his name like her father had to change his or something like that). So Lord Royce of the junior branch must have had a previous marriage and the children from that relationship who was Nestor's father or mother IMO. The rest of Jocelyn's daughters are accounted for.
Too often it seems that you come up with theories first, and then use any kind of information you can think of to support your claims. It's is really telling, in this video, when you make weird and unsupported claims on the female anatomy. However, I love how crazy you are, so keep it coming.
+Preston Jacobs From your own source, "During puberty, the same changes happen to all girls, but the time they happen is different for every girl." It also stays far away from making any definite generalizations. As a chick myself, I wouldn't make these kind of assumptions about someone else.
+PandaBree Who said every girl? The video says that its possible, just improbable. It's just one suspicious thing among many things about Alayne's story that shouldn't add up for Myranda.
+Velu Siva That's unfortunate for me then, because it took me three years, and a lot of teasing, to start developing. Even weirder for my friends that developed a lot before they got their period. I'm aware that there are averages, but I'm just stating not every person falls near that average. It would be strange if they were saying that she was 6, and she had large breasts, but the given time frame isn't any where as unrealistic as Mr. Jacobs is claiming.
Holy heck this reveals a whole new dimension to game of thrones conversations. I loved this conversation but I never thought it had so much meaning! Thank you for these breakdowns!
Breast development starts a year prior to menarchy. Also, until the last 50-75 years ago the average start of menstruation was 14-16 years- mostly due to poorer nutrition and generally lower body weight. So there is nothing in Sansa's story that contradicts normal female physiology.
Not really though. Girls like Sansa were not that physically active back then remember? Intense physical activity is a major factor as well. Plus, Sansa is highborn so it's not like her nutrition would be that bad compared to the average person these days. Peasants(the average person back then) are a different story obviously. Also for all we know, all the shit we put in food today, is a possible cause of 11 year olds going into puberty too. Researchers are finding that has been an overall increase in environmental estrogen after all.
Her shoe would be blown away by the wind. It would probably end up hundreds of thousands of meters away from Lysa's body. Plus Lysa's own shoes would probably fall off too when she fell. So while I am yet again impressed by your theory and how you manage to create it all with such a small little detail, I just don't see it as happening.
I know truly want a House Royce dedicated series. Not because of Nestor Royce, but mostly because of Waymar Royce. A Night's Watch analysis would probably suffice.
Would they find the shoe though? Certainly not anywhere near Liza’s body I would think. It is a long fall, the winds are strong, and it is not like we are talking iron studded shoes or wooden clogs - if she managed to drop it we are more likely talking about a slipper or something along those lines. How heavy and cumbersome would a ladies slipper have to be before it would end up near Liza?
I think this was the first of Preston's videos I saw. And I am still waiting for the next half of Littlefinger's story. Alayne Stone may be a bastard, that does not mean she can not speak like a high born. Dunk gave Egg a firm correction when Egg called Bloodraven lowdown. "Sir Bynden is higborn, but a bastard." That does not change Miranda's conclusions, but it does sound lime something a schemer would be aware of.
I can’t believe you think that it’s suspicious that’s she said she was 14 and just had her first period....that’s still a normal age for a first period lol
This whole assumption is based on the premise that the shoe will not fall away from the body, being unaffected by the wind during the fall and / or after the fall.
The only flaw that I find in thisis the fact that Nestor Toyce would find the Shoe. I mean, it's a pretty freakin big drop, what makes you think the shoe would be right there on sight? It could have have been blown away by the wind somewhere else or bounced of down the mountain. The only explanation for it to be right there next to Lady Lysa's body (or pudding) would be that she clutched it tightly hopping it was an oddl shaped dragon egg and that her ice cold heart would somehow nurture it back to health midflight and make it hatch into a fully grown dragon that would fly her to safety. nevermind that even if she did hold onto it to the very last moment, the impact has been to known to make corpses resemble the name of the band that wrote Bullet With Butterfly Wings, so it's safe to say the show would blow away as well, and there is no particular reason that Royce would wander off looking for whatever more stuff after finding most of the more solid remains of her former liege lady, and it's not more probable that he would stumble upon a shoe, just one shoe, before he could spot the big gory squash on the ground with a silky sky blue gown at the epicenter.
Preston, the Myranda theory is great but the shoe... nah. Man, imagine the rocks beneath the Eyrie. Apart from the occasional body, there must be TONS of shit lying around, including many shoes and whatnot. Anything you need to get rid of? Simply toss it out of the window. Broken things, spoiled food, pails of shit and piss - make them fly! Nobody cared. Also, shadowcats!
+Preston Jacobs Mindblowing! Thanks for another great video. What do you think about the 5th suitor theory? Can it be truth? Especially if, as you just proved, Littlefinger may be in trouble, so the marriage of Sansa and Harry may not finish with "and they lived happily ever after"? :)
+Holypikemanz Hi :) Sorry, I thought it's a known theory. It goes like this: In Dunk & Egg there is a tourney in Ashford. It's young lady's Ashford name day, so 5 champions are chosen to fight on her behalf. They come from houses: Baratheon, Tyrell, Lannister, Hardyng & Targeryan. According the theory, 13 years old Lady Ashara is a reference to Sansa, and the champions are reference of all Sansa's suitors. All of the champions failed during the tourney and (for now) all Sansa's "husbands to be" failed to become her rightful husband... Joffrey Barathen, Willas Tyrel, Tyrion Lannister (marrage not consumed) and now Harry Hardyng may fail if Littlefinger makes a mistake. If Sansa will be somehow later in Varys hands, than he may plan to merry her to Aegon Targeryan... what do you think? :)
+Ola Gawle That theory sounds exactly like George's style of writing- repeating events with the same elements, just mixed around. Rhaegar winning the tournament at Harrenhal is very similar to Loras winning the tournament at King's Landing, blue roses given to a stark woman etc. Bael the bard is similar to Peter (Bael)ish, both people stealing a stark woman. By the way, I love your cat videos!
+Preston Jacobs Exactly! There is a series of events that are correlated with typical female development and you had it right, Preston. Thelarche (breast development) occurs before Menarche (menses). The usual onset of puberty is around 10.5 years for females.
Man, just like having a quality stereo cd player is required to truly appreciate the beauty of a Pink Floyd album, your theory videos are required to truly understand the intricate work of GRRM, I wouldn't have spotted this in a million re-reads, keep up the good work!
I can't imagine anyone would find or notice the shoe. It's a long fall down a very windy mountainside and the shoe would have landed hundreds of feet away from the body and possibly bounced even further down the mountain. From what Lysa says and Robin's enthusiasm for making people fly it seems like they use the Moon Door fairly often, so the landing zone would be littered with all sorts of debris.
Not a bad theory at all. Clearly Miranda is pumping Sansa for information. So if your theories are correct, Sansa is in mortal danger since LittleFinger won't sacrifice himself for her. Can't wait for the next book!!
The damn shoe could have landed no where near Lysa's body, even if it was close unless you were looking for a shoe it could easily go unnoticed. But you're cooking with gas on the Randa stuff.
I would like to request a video on Mace Tyrell. I realize you give priority to people on patreon, but I think Mace is one of the most undervalued and overlooked players in Westeros. He may be considered an oaf by Olenna, but she calls everyone an idiot while keeping her true believes to herself. Mace's army was the only force to defeat Robert Baratheon, he then effectively kept his army out of the Usurper's war by massing his fleet and army at Storms End (thereby perserving his strength while claiming to keep loyal). He then manages to get his daughter and youngest son into extermely powerful positions, and slowly accumulates more power through politicing, to the point that house Tyrell is as powerful, if not more so, than the Lannisters. Furthermore, if he is truely an oaf, why is the rest of his family more than competent? Olenna is a master deciever, Mace's oldest soon is quiet accomplished dispite his injuries, his two other sons are great warriors and more than intelligent, and his daughter is more cunning, more aware of the game, and better fit to rule than most other people in Kings Landing. Olenna's 'oaf' comment is a smoke screen to how smart Mace turely is.
I don't think so. Not everyone is plotting, some people are genuinely dumb. Mace Tyrell did not defeat Robert Baratheon. It was Randyll Tarly who defeated him and Mace just goes around claiming that he beat Robert and Randyl can't say anything because he's a subordinate and not the lord of the reach. It was Olenna who brokered Margery's marriage to Renly and then Joffery. His family is competent because they just are and it has nothing to do with him. Tytos Lannister was an incompetent ruler but all of his children are very competent and how is that possible then?
I have one problem with 3 shoe theory... thas is snow, terrain and probably more mess... we dont know how many bodies were there, because sweetrobin probably executed many people, or we dont know if moondoor was nevere used as "trash can" by lazy servants... therefore they maybe find much much more, so one shoe could not bring their attention
"Who will stop Littlefinger? Varys? Doran? Sansa? The answer may surprise you."
Sounds like a buzzfeed article
IT DID SURPRISE US!!!!!! IT TURNED OUT TO BE A PSYCHOTIC GIRL SCOUT WITH A VALERIAN STEEL DAGGER!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
Sansa will stop him
@@danielwhittaker695 No no no, I don't recall reading any of that
@@richardfitzpatrick9732 I agree. In fact I think Sansa and Arya will overcome their differences and stop Littlefinger. I'm calling it now.
@@futurei0oo Unless LF *is* onboard with Stannis, as Preston seems to think.
Yes, the fact that George specifically mentions that Sansa lose's her shoe would lead people to think that it would be of significance. But you have to take into account how ridiculous it would be to assume that they even found her shoe. It fell 600 feet! It could of gone anywhere!
Little fingerer done goofed!
+TheJackFroster I really doubt they found her body. I like PJ's videos, but I don't believe the shoe has anything to do with it, but for sure Myranda is trying to unveil Alayne.
Sansa's shoe has less chance to be relevant than Quentyn to be alive, lol, Quentyn has more chances XD
+Robb Stark Maybe the shoe made it's way to Mereen, and Quentyn was wearing it.
+TheJackFroster they never find a grown womans body but they find the third shoe and immediatly realize its Sansas :D
+TheJackFroster Yes, it could have gone anywhere. But this also means, it could have just dropped right onto the fat head of Ser Nestor or in his sight, yard, whatever.
I would believe you if you said Hodor was a Maester.
Dangerous talent.
Water Sheep omg it’s water sheep wtf
@@perspii2808 A man who watched Preston 3 years ago is now water sheep
@@perspii2808 its jeb_ omg
Hahaha. Same here.
Man, Preston says some weird things sometimes, but the whole fingering someone being harder than playing the harp thing is probably one of the weirdest.
Yesssss!! I just commented about this. There's no way I can play an instrument, but I'm definitely able to do some pleasuring 😂
@J .S With the more intimate skill, you only have one chord to learn.
He's clearly a virgin. He doesn't know how puberty works for women, either.
@@etherealrose2139 dude, he has a child
@@ivandankob7112 I feel very sad for that child. They're fucked, metaphorically.
but a shoe is so very light it will end up miles away from the body, the moon door is high and there is a lot of wind in there
+Hossam Eddine Benmessaoud A good point, but they would have to comb the mountain to find Lysa. I don't think it would end of miles away, but possibly several hundred feet.
+Preston Jacobs true it could have been tangled with here cloths, good video man high five
+Preston Jacobs true he would have to comb the mountain. But if the moon were use frequent enough there most likely be a bunch of shoes and other garments skewed throughout the mountain
+Serious Shrubery A good point. I do wonder how often female executions happen. In our society, almost never.
he does say he's probably wrong about the sh*t he talks about
I imagine there's so much debris and splatter at the bottom of that mountain it's impossible to tell what's what. The moon door is thousands of feet high, so the debris field would be huge and it sounds like people get thrown out of there all the time. There's probably shoes, bits of face and bones from allsorts going back years - doubt anyone is putting it all together.
+Really Funny, Original Name True, but with the winds at that height, it would be almost impossible for the shoe to land in the same spot as the body. Oh hey a shoe, must have something to do with that corpse 1 mile south...
lol true
Probably, just physics wise, the shoe and Lysa's body probably didn't land in the same place.
Yeah, I was also thinking the part about the shoe was a bit of a stretch. Even if they found the shoe, and knew it belonged to Sansa, that still only means that she was there, and Sansa never denied that. They Royce's suspicion and Myranda's subtle interrogation of Alayne is because she's with Littlefinger, and Littlefinger is extremely untrustworthy, not because of a shoe.
exactly how the fuck does extra shoe = Sansa is the murderer.
I don't believe there would be a body to examine. The deceleration trauma would leave Lysa's body in tiny fragments. She'd reach >200km/hr falling onto rocks and rocky mountain. There may be some parts intact, but they likely aren't even retrievable without a helicopter. Critters and birds would eat her morsel-sized remains. I think Lysa's shoes and clothing would also be bashed to smithereens, or bounced randomly far away from Lysa's randomly strewn mincemeat.
+AeroDoe I also don't see how the 3rd shoe will fall anywhere near the body. Since it's lighter and has weird shape any slight wind will know it hundreds of meters or even kilometres away. Plus can you imagine randomly finding a shoe in a forest???
Plus even if they did find a shoe who would care. That mood door is used so much that I bet assholes throw their trash from there. So it's extremely possible that someone just threw or dropped a random shoe days or weeks ago.
It's like police finding a dead body and a gum near it and assuming with 100% certainty that this was the gum of the killer. Not that it was thrown on the ground by the hundreds of thousands of people walking on that street.
+Ico Petrov it seems very possible to me. We are talking about fiction and it seems to make too much sense as kind of a reverse Cinderella situation to not be the case. Otherwise why would George have even had her lose the shoe?
+Blood Raven also what evidence do we have of how often the moon door was used? It is in the thrown room so it isn't a space that just anyone is allowed to use however they want.
+AeroDoe I've see pictures of when people fall from great heights. While it is in no way a pretty sight the body does stay more or less in one main piece.
TheToemeister
I've seen some of those too. Limbs at really weird angles (if they still have limbs), heads twisted to the back. I've actually seen one intact body with my own eyes in person.
If the body falls in a swamp, a field of grasses, and other compressible mediums, it might not shatter into little pieces. This body fell from a great height onto rock, however. That makes a big difference.
Nester Royce: ...and as my final damning piece of evidence, Carrot brought down this shoe from the Eyrie, the matching shoe to the one I found on the ground below!
Littlefinger: So, you found the first shoe?
NR: Yes.
LF: And your man found the second shoe?
NR: Yes.
LF: And no one was around to corroborate either of these discoveries besides people loyal to you?
NR: ...Yes.
LF: And since we live in a perpetual feudal age with little to no technology, there is no way to get DNA evidence to conclusively prove that this pair of shoes even belonged to Alayne in the first place?
NR: ...yes...
LF: Ladies and gentlemen of the Vale, I rest my case.
CSI Westeros
If the shoe fits...
Aniruddha Purekar WEEEEHAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUU
I demand trial by combat!
Nah mate Bran will just quote something Littlefinger said to Sansa and Lysa alone and everyone will believe that without question and Littlefinger won't defend himself and just start sobbing until he's killed, that's how trials work we have just decided
Myranda:"There's a new High Septon did you know? Oh, and the Night's Watch has a boy commander, some bastard son of Eddard Stark's."
Alayne/Sansa: "Jon Snow?"
Me: Holy fucking shit, you did NOT just do that!
+MrDibara well Sansa was always dumb, there is a reason why Littlefinger would never tell her any of his important plans.
+MrDibara To be honest it is possible that Alayne had simply heard who the new Lord Commander was.
Ryan Denziloe Be honest with me, what are the chances of that?
MrDibara Why not? Myranda knew? Sansa is Littlefinger's ward and Littlefinger is one of the most well-informed men in the Seven Kingdoms. One would presume Alayne heard it from him.
Ryan Denziloe Problem is, why would Littlefinger tell her septa daughter about some new lord of the Night's Watch? Why would that interest Alayne? Also, how could she possibly know the name of Eddard's bastard if she's never heard of him?
Myranda is a noble lady, she's supposed to hear some of these events once in a while, especially considering the Eerye is so close to the North. Alayne is a bastard who grew up being mentored by the Faith of the Seven down there in the South and only recently has Littlefinger come to take her with him. How is she supposed to know anything about the Wall? And even if she heard something about the North, why would she hear especifically about who Eddard's bastard is when it's most likely to hear about the Starks' fall, the Boltons ruling the North or even Stannis fighting the ironborns in the Woodlands?
I disagree with a lot of your theories but I have to say: this is really, really insightful. It's a brand new analysis of Randa's questioning of Sansa and I love it.
You're right Littlefinger did make a mistake, but it is that the lords of The Vale figured out he might have Sansa.Yohn Royce recognized her. House Royce and House Stark are blood related. They also almost led the rest of the Vale into open revolt when Lysa Arryn refused to join the North in rebellion. They don't care if Sansa Stark killed her.
Littlefingers obsession with Sansa, is his fatal flaw. He is teaching her the game, and if she understands it before his plans are complete, all she would have to do is announce herself and accuse him of murdering Lysa Arryn.
+Cratlord I hope that doesn't happen (though I suspect it will). I love Littlefinger, but I can take or leave Sansa to be honest.
I could see it going the other way and LIttlefinger being the death of her. Also, I kind of like Sansa. She isn't as passive as everyone thinks,just playing her role to survive. We don't like her for it, but given all she has been through, I don't think Sansa likes being Sansa much either.
Cratlord That's a point... he could well be the end of her, if it suits his political agenda I see him throwing her under the bus without hesitation. If and when Rickon comes back, and he scuppers Littlefinger's Northern plans, I see Sansa's life possibly being in danger as she will be a burden to him.
And I agree with you, I think a large reason behind her being so sheepish and passive is just because she needed to survive in the situation she found herself in. And while I do not hold that against her, and I fully understand why she did it, I still don't *really* like her as a character. The only reason I get excited about her chapters now is because they involve Littlefinger! :D
Luminousreign exactly they will protect her from LF scheming defo to use her to get the Eyrie Yohan Royce won't be happy could gather like 10 thousand men along with other houses such as Redford but it's hard to know if they will join
It's obvious that the shoe would drop like a stone, straight down. The violent winds surround the mountain would definitely not have any effect whatsoever on a single, small, shoe. Nope. None whatsoever.
EXACTLY!! This whole theory relies on the fact that they find all the shoes forget one. Basically it's shit
thats not even the worst part of the shoe idea to me. How the fuck does finding an extra shoe = Sansa is the murderer.
AMA F Because it's Sansa's shoe and it's near the corpse?
they have no idea its sansa shoe, and its a mountain range. There is tons of debris. the shoe could be from something else entirely. the moon door has existed for 1000s of years, there is years of debris from there.
It really doesn't matter if there is a third shoe or not, since as was pointed out before my comment, it could've belonged to someone else who was thrown out of the moon door before.
It also makes no sense for the shoes to remain intact after falling from that height, even if they did fall straight down (which they wouldn't). They'd likely burst into a myrriad of pieces after falling from that height, scattering along the mountainside.
Unless Nestor has a crew of people glueing every item that falls from the moon door like puzzles, I doubt that they'd even notice Sansa's shoe.
If Myranda really is this Machiavellian character you present her as then I'm very impressed with her. When she presented the current world events back to back, one regarding the faith (the story Randa knows would interest Alayne) and another regarding Ned Stark's bastard (which would interest Sansa Stark) Sansa just fell for it hook line and sinker. She might as well have yelled " I am indeed Ned Stark's daughter, my lady!" right then and there.
if playing a harp is easier than using your fingers for "other things" so far as you are concerned you are doing something very wrong or else are really naturally talented at the harp.
rebusforever well my boy Preston is concert harpist didnt you know?
i'm sure they will find hundreds of shoes down there
Yeb sweet Robin throwing them when he gets bored
Well, I think the point is that they clear the remains quite often but that would be hilarious.
@@donaldjgumpofficial5754 How do you know they clean up the remains? I'm not sure, but I'd expect the mountains below to be not easily accessible.
@@jackodees1765 We don't for sure but it makes sense.
@@donaldjgumpofficial5754 it actually doesn't. The corpses to be found there are those of the worst criminals, which could well be left for the crows. Also if cleaning up was as issue, they would have shifted to beheading etc. long age, since you wouldn't want to loose a single good man in climbing for a dead criminal.
Also, considering the difference in weight between a corpse and the show should let them land well apart from each other. I guess things falling from the Eiry by accident shouldn't be to uncommon a thing, considering its placement.
Tl;dr: Just because you wrap enough tinfoil around a shoe, doesn't make a "theory" valid.
Spoiler: It's Ser Pounce.
+Slail Ser Pounce, widely recognized as the most underrated villain in the books.
+Slail Voldemort/Ser Pounce/Harry the Heir you never see them together because they are the same person!!!
Could someone explain the Ser Pounce theory?
+Gerald Rowan Ser Pounce is a secret Targaryen
Gerald Rowan Watch: Al shift x Ser pounce video. It explains everything perfectly
The third shoe is of Tormund's member im sure.
Someone drops a shoe from a great height toward a mountain. Its going to end up nowhere near the body, there will be little if anything left of the body in fact, certainly not enough for a proper burial.
+Mark Joseph Middleton And even IF they the remains of a body and THREE shoes are found, what does that mean? Nothing; so a shoe has fallen from the eyrie. Big deal; it's a high castle, things tend to fall from great heights. Maybe a hat, a book, a chair and a dead cat felt from the Eyrie once. So what? That means nothing at all...
Peter Kuypers Yep, exactly :D, further how many people have been thrown out of that door as punishment.
Having to clean up the remains of body that fall down from so high must suck
Join us next weeks where Preston Jacobs tell us the entire plot of the Winds of winters
+Southernboy474 Sandor Clegane will be her champion if anyone, he was ALWAYS tender to Sansa from the beginning...
***** That meeting will be interesting lol
***** I agree. Particularly since I have almost finished Re- Reading A Feast For Crows. Many hints to her death.
+Redem10 People still have to do similar jobs today... I watched a video (on LiveLeak) recently of some cleaners, cleaning up a body in China... pretty grim stuff, the body was partly squashed or crushed after the poor bastard was run over by a lorry I think. I would hate to have a job like that.
+tcpgblizzard Why the fuck would you watch anything of that like, from snuff videos, animal abuse or other. The dark Web is a fucked up place and things like that shouldn't even exist.
Littlefinger's plans often rely on his opponent's stupidity or distraction with other matters. Thus he takes a lot of risks as par for course - calculated risks, but risks none the less. Eventually he's going to get unlucky or mess with someone who's more observant then he first assumed.
so great... can't believe I let this one so easy while re-reading..
I also love how George has put together the daughter of Eddard, Robert and son of Jon Eryn at the same place they were fostered :)
Except for the fact that the shoe probably fell far away from Lysa's body.
+Jackson Porter Thank you! Not to mention the hundred other shoes that Robert Arryan throw down there when he was bored...
+Jackson Porter In another video, Preston uses the argument that Marillion could not be heard singing because of "screaming winds" in the sky cells. Those same winds would carry a lady shoe away differently than a Lysa body. The chances of finding shoe & body close together are worse than Moonboy and Lord Tarly falling in love.
I thought lots of people get trown through the moon door as punishment. wouldn't there be lost of shoes and remains of people at the bottom.
+Knerbert Klom
yes but there will be one shoe more then feet!
Probably not - it's in the eerie: how many executions do we reckon happen in the cloud castle of the Lords and ladies?
Yes but they are cleaned up and I don't think there was an execution right before the death of Lysa because I think it would have been mentioned. So when Lysa's body is cleaned up there are only the 3 shoes there (or maybe a couple more but not so many that one couldn't tell there's an extra shoe)
Impressive! The detail of the missing shoe never occurred to me the two times I read the novel.
I see words and you see a whole other story within the story. You sir are a magician.
not necessarily, he probably spends a lot of time on the asoiaf subreddit looking at fan fan theories and finding ones he thinks might be true, then rereads the stories looking for more evidence and expanding them.
+ArtPlays Nah, he actually works out the theories himself, although he does go on the asioaf forum and ask for opinions.
Not dissing, but it’s probably a minor aneurysm.
Not in insult, I had one too. It makes it so you can see through time. He already has a draft for TWOW
Baelish has made some pretty big judgement errors. He left Sweets alone in the Vale. He left Sansa alone in Winterfell. He went back to Kings Landing. He fucked with Cersei. He married Sansa to Ramsay. He kissed Katelyn at prom even though he's going out with Rebecca. He's not the smartest tool in the shed, I must say.
Lol jk D&D fucked him up baaaad. He could probably kill me right now and he's not even real person nor does he know I exist. Fuck D&D.
+manband20 Well, that's Show-Littlefinger who is just plain irrational. Book-Littlefinger is a different creature.
hes talking about the books gtfo
+manband20 You totally got me! I should have known you were kidding. :)
+Preston Jacobs love me
Preston Jacobs He truly is the Underpants Gnomes of the TV show. He knows what he wants, doesn't know what the hell he's doing to get it, and he expects to have an uncomfrotable chair and a redhead for when he wins.
Petyr Baelish basically "littlefingered" the Vale, but not quite.
RiceDuke doesn't have it and don't think he will no way it's happening like
LittleFinger and Sansa can easily say they're lying about the shoes. LittleFinger is preparing to reveal Sansa anyway, and the shoe is speculative at best. So unless they get a confession, the shoe is pointless. They can know the truth but saying they found a shoe is not going to cut it. And Sweet Robin wouldn't believe it and Sansa has him in the palm of her hand.
It's also such an easy lie. "Oh yes! I wanted to see the moon door and oh, clumsy me, I slipped and my shoe fell down! How good of you to have found it!". Sansa's bad at lying, but only when she doesn't know she's being questioned. She can lie if she knows she's being accused.
Yess yet another great video!
stop
This comment chain went south fast.
OMG! IT IS YOUUUUUUUU!!!!
Just read the last Sansa chapter of ASoS two days ago and completely missed the 3rd shoe. She was pushed out to the edge. But 'Lysa's Rock' did seem strangely overjoyed for his reward.
Great catch as usual, Preston! Keep it up!
Almost all Serial Killers end up making a mistake due to impulse, Littlefinger will be no different.
+James Buschell Most serial killers are dumb. Baelish is a genius.
+greenghost2008 no...most serial killers are in fact geniuses
Ninich look it up. There have been studies done. Serial killers tend to have low IQs.
eatin some chicken mane No man. A man as great as he deserves a great death.
greenghost2008 he is a snake he doesnt deserve a great death but a misarable and worthless one
Am I the only one who's pissed at the way Petyr died in the latest episode? (s7e7)
just know, I like your shit so much that I sit thru the whole commercials so u get paid
It's all part of my plan. Simpletons will never understand this.
FInd a random shoe and assume it fell at the same time or nearly? Are you barking mad?
How many people fall from the moon door I ask you? How many people would be climbing on the mountain. It doesn't mean Petyr lied, it's just a theory.
Robin does like the moon door.
Your perception blows my mind. I'm going to have to go back and re-watch all of your videos. The details of this conversation went right over my head when I read it. Love your channel! Keep up the good and interesting work!
Now that's more like it! These are your best videos Preston, where you pick up on little details like the missing shoe. I can actually see the Royce's using that in the next book and coming to the fore. Well done. Much better than any bs about telepathic puppeteering or whatever.
I never miss any of your videos!! Sometimes, I think they are a little crazy, but I love them! Keep it up with the good work!!
I remember reading this chapter and saying dope when Sansa answers Jon Snow.
theres no way that three objects falling from the mountain would end up in the same spot, plus transporting goods is very expensive so all trash from the castle would be thrown down also, so theres plenty of garbage covering hole mountains base ;)
All Alayne has to do is say "after he pushed my aunt out, he came towards me. I had nothing to perfect me. I threw my shoe at him. It must have fallen out the moon door."
Everyone seems concerned the shoe was impossible to find, but even without it Myranda and Nester and clearly suspicious
I challenge you to drop three shoes off a mountain and find any of them. let alone in the same place.
wow! your videos are so complete and self-explanatory and add intrigue to the story with facts that usually go unnoticed. Thanks for your videos keep the good work.
You're banking too much on geography being favorable to your hypothesis - that the odd-shoe-out would land in a location that is both accessible and within view of Nestorino's search party/parties - the shoe, being lighter, could've overshot the area where Lysa went splat and thus not seem related to Lysa's demise. It would just be an odd abandoned shoe found a mile or so away from the 'crime scene.'
Alternatively, the shoe could've landed on any number of mountain ledges or within a crevasses placed anywhere between the Moon Door and the ground. We do not know the layout. We can not surmise if the trajectory of the footwear was sufficient enough to cause a kerfuffle.
I am so happy I've had a chance to actually type out that last sentence.
It seems like George gardening to me. It's possible that it is or isn't important to the story and he just planted the seed for the possibility.
Wow... Preston Jacobs, you amaze me with the kind and amount of attention to detail you have. Excellent! I wonder if GRRM himself thought of these things consciously...
Preston Jacobs posted another video? And it's 16 minutes long?! AND IT DOESN'T SAY PART 1?!?!? YEEAAAHHHHH
I feel like I just watched a massive spoiler and not a theory man. Your work is insane. To me this is exactly the kind of thing that would slip up the most calculating guy in Westeros, a shoe.
There's more to house Royce.
+The Night's King I think it's coming though. I think they have roots in the north.
+maddyisalive11 yep
+maddyisalive11 I think he had...if you read the prologue he was the only one who wanted to check out thoose dead wildling and he faced the Other bravely then when he became a wight he went straight onto Will...idk maybe its just me but i really think he wanted something there but not sure what
+Theresa Wheeler There's more to house manderly, hightower, Yronwood, Reed and Tarly too.
We remember.
this while sub plot went right over my head both times I read FfC. Thanks, Preston!
Between this, the Greyjoy stuff, and the Dornish Master Plan, You've transformed Book 4 into an Important addition to the SOIAF series.
Very perceptive!
Yes I want more.
+The Night's King ill take one for the team
+lukeandjosh9 But would you take one....for the watch?
Nick Bruce IM STILL SALTY ABOUT THAT
I hope little finger gets a pov chapter, really curious about how he thinks,his motivation everything
Oh my god I really hope this plays out. Jesus, Preston, you put all this shit together because of one line about a missing shoe, why aren't you a real detective, you'd make Adrian Monk look like an amateur.
Quite opposite. Like everyone else already pointed out, the shoe is carried by the wind and likely never found.
If everything he said depended on it, he'd not be Sherlock, he'd be a conspiracy nutjob.
Fortunately, all does not depend on it.
+Brian R. OH NO THEY NEVER MENTIONED LYSA*S BODY THAT MEANS SHES ALIVE - AND YOU KNOW WHO ELSE CANT DIE - WHITE WALKERS. AND WE KNOW THAT THERE WAS AN OTHER QUEEN SO LYSA = NIGHT QUEEN OMG LYSA AND JON SNOW WILL MARRY AND RULE THE NORTH AND THE VALE BY THE POWER OF ICE. LYSA IS THE THIRD HEAD OF THE DRAGON WITH DANY AND JON. THEN GRRM WILL MAKE A PORN CALLED MOM TEACHES YOUNG CROW HOW TO PLEASE HIS HORNY FIFTEEN YO BUT-MARRIED-TWICE WIFE
+AdiBilly1 The porn reference had me in tears.
Sometimes people forget that a book is not all about facts and easter eggs hidden carefully inside tiny fragments of descriptions.Mostly,it's about just literature and how the narrative helps the reader make a brautiful and detailed image in his head.
The fallen shoe is a narrative tool to help the reader picture how close Sansa was to the Moon Door.
Now,onto the scientific aspect of the story,gravity is gravity,air is air,trajectory is trajectory.A non debatable factor in both reality and fiction.But...but...FICTION!Nope.Any person being thrown from such height would be mostly tomato juice with it's bits and pieces here and there.Plus,any ornaments or accessories said person would have,would separate from the body due to air resistance.
But,let's just accept the premise that this Nestor Royce finds 3 shoes in close proximity of the body.Odds are,a lowly ranked lord,tasked with 'cleaning up the mess' could not make those proposed assumptions.They all know some weird shit happened in that castle,and the Moon Door was constantly open,because Lysa's kid has a sick imagination and likes to see things fly.There's literally a million guesses Nestor could've made upon the sight of a third shoe.
Lysa could've thrown that shoe,teasing Sansa or some other girl in her service.Or,maybe,that shoe just happened to be there,belonging to another victim.Maybe another woman visited the site,to clean up the mess or see a loved one who died,and lost her shoe there.And,that is,IF he spotted the shoe.C'mon,don't expect me to believe that somehow Lysa's body was dropped in 'Sherlock Holme's' backyard.Clearly this guy was more focused on the body,and speculating how and who might've dropped her,than snooping around for her clothing.
But,hey,let's accept that Nestor IS a GoT detective and has reached a conclusion regarding the shoe.That's not valid evidence to begin with.When you're messing with a lord or a higher up,accusing them of murder is a pretty big deal,and the evidence you need to provide have to beyond any shadow of doubt,or else you'd be fucked nine ways to Sunday.Even if Nestor is an ambitious and genious lord,he'd know better than to take Littlefinger to the court,with the accusations of murder,only to have presented a 'third shoe' to the court,which,btw anyone could make the case that HE planted it.The shoe needs to be matched with Sansa's other one,and even then,there's no proof of murder,just Sansa being near the Moon Door at some point during her presence of the Lysa nad her boy.
Anyone could argue that Sansa had lost her shoe at a previous point of time,during some Moon Door showcase maybe?
Weak stuff Preston.Cheap click bait.A bad showing of an,otherwise,cool theory maker.
i dont really see your shoe theory working
such a high a fall and that mountain terrain make it almost impossible to find everything
the chance of a lysa body part search party stumbling across them is pretty much zero imo, just like there will be parts of lysa missing as well.....
+prospecial I imagine other high born have been dropped before and gathered. I imagine there is probably a zone where they know everything lands.
I like your older format, moving backgrounds, different character depictions, larger and less text, random artwork. Love the content, regardless!
I think it's really unlikely the shoe will even be found, at such heights the wind is likely to carry it away. In any case, I agree that the Lords of the Vale will not de duped so easily.
Wait, if Nestor Royce isn't working together with Bronze Yohn Royce ( Nestor shutting down Yohn when he enquires about Alayne )... How does he know she is Sansa Stark? Is there a line about Sansa having met Nestor before (as Sansa)? When LF tells Sansa about the Lord Declarants she asks if Bronze Yohn is one of them, scared because "He knows her". But nothing about Nestor.
Nestor might have had suspicions if he found the shoe, but suspicions doesn't mean Sansa.
Miranda needs to have a reason to think it's Sansa BEFORE she goes with her "High Septon/Jon Snow" charade.
She just wants a confirmation, she already thinks it's Sansa.
How? How can Miranda/Nestor know it's Sansa, unless someone told them?
Hell, LF - who is usually quite clever - doesn't even think Bronze Yohn will recognize Alayne as Sansa, despite having met her a few times.
This is the missing link in that theory...
There isn't much between "3rd shoe" and "Let's have Miranda question Alayne to see if she knows Jon Snow".
Unless Bronze Yohn works with Nestor - which you seem to think they don't - Nestor can't have any idea it's Sansa.
And to be honest it'd be quite disappointing if Bronze Yohn actually just recognized her and told Nestor.
The whole genius of LF brought down because he thought Yohn wouldn't remember Sansa, but oops, actually he did?
quite cheap.
If he can read that much into a single chapter, that speaks volumes of the depth of the world of GoT.
Tl;dr - Homie Preston makes Sansa look incompetent. But also outs himself as never having finger-blasted someone and/or played the harp.
Idk man, a lot of people have fallen through the moon door. It's likely a moderately sized skeletal graveyard. There's probably a lot of shoes down there. Doubtful it's just Lisa's body and 3 shoes.
During Sweet Robin’s breastfeeding times, they have three full graveyard clean-up teams on call at all times.
If Petyr goes down for killing Lysa, it would be a sucky way to go out because Petyr was absolutely right for killing her. Lysa molested Petyr when he was a virgin, she was running her mouth about his secret plans, and she tried to throw Sansa out of the Moon Door. You can't dream up a better defense for killing her.
1) A shoe falling from that high might fly far away from the castle;
2) There's a record of people "flying" through a moon door so we may assume there's a nice collection of shoes scattered below the castle
3) Girls flower at very different ages and menstruation doesn't correlate with breast growth. Seriously, ask ten female friends about their puberty and you'll hear ten competently different stories about how their bodies changed;
4) Alayne being a bastard and low born knows not to show any kind of emotions when higher born insults her, it's how privilege works: you're born into better family and you can be absolutely oblivious to the limitations and threats that less fortunate face and most of all to the self-censorship when they talk with those in charge.
Good luck finding a shoe on a mountain.
Plus, Sansa was a witness, and Sansa could argue her shoe was lost when Merillian attacked her and Lysa; just spin the lie a bit more.
Plus, most of the characters in the story are gullible people; much like the readers, a lot of facts are missed by the characters in the seas of elaborate schemes. Would they understand the implication of three shoes? Remember, only Sam understood the circumstances of the wights posing as corpses near Castle Black (that they were freshly dead, not that they were rites), and the others did not get it. Maybe Nestor Royce is tasked with recovering Lysa's body, but simply oversees some peasants picking up the body and the lord doesn't inspect the details.
Then, the shoe implicates Sansa, who actually did not murder Lysa; Littlefinger did. So, will they just think a preteen girl murdered Lysa?
Also, how many bodies go out the Moon Door? Do they clean up every body? Has Sweetrobin ever been allowed to toss junk or toys out of the Moon Door before? Could there be piles of different carcasses and clothes?
And couldn't a shoe or two fall very far apart from where the body falls? Winds, a entire mountainside with several castles below, and so on?
I think if the lie was discovered, that it would simply be suspicion of Littlefinger. He was always disliked, and quickly inherited a kingdom soon after getting married. That is enough to doubt whatever story he tells. Even if he hadn't lied, there would be suspicious lords.
i really hope that rickon stark and robert arryn have the perfect glow up and the two of them avenge thier houses and just destroy everyone
Oh you sly dog you just when I think your done you encore us with this brilliant analysis! You never cease to amaze.
Only thing that puzzles me is the Royces and Starks are bound by blood, first men families and traditions I would think they would be pro Stark and really would be trying to save her if they knew how precarious her situation is, how deep in the fire she was in.
+joe bittar Except, if they believe she's responsible for Lysa's murder, then she'd be a kinslayer--Lysa would be her Aunt after all. And the gods (old and new) hate nothing more than a kinslayer.
But this is presuming that the Royces know all. Clearly Myranda has sussed out that Alayne isn't who she says she is, but whether they've put all the pieces together or not... is another matter.
It also says a lot about how well Sansa's playing "the game" if the Royces have already undone her cover story. If this video comes to pass it would seem that Sansa might never "learn the game" properly.
+Salamon2 I think Miranda is the brains I'm not so sure if Nestor is that much a Sherlock Holmes, he and Ned are related after all
Actually they aren't as far as I can tell. The children of Jocelyn Stark were three daughters, who married into other houses--other houses who just attended a wedding in Gulltown that everyone was "surprised" to see them at (Waynwood, Corbray, and Templeton)--but it's not surprising if you consider that all of their mothers were likely Jocelyn Stark's daughters. It also makes me wonder if all three of them have an unspoken familial alliance and are secretly planning on bringing LF down from within (which has long been my theory--Martin didn't tell us about these three houses being kin to the Starks for no reason IMO).
We're never told that Jocelyn had any more children or even a son to carry on the family line, nor are we told that Nestor or his parent had to change their name back again to be Royce (perfect time to bring that up would have been when Myranda discusses how Harry will inherit--mentioning that he'll have to change his name like her father had to change his or something like that). So Lord Royce of the junior branch must have had a previous marriage and the children from that relationship who was Nestor's father or mother IMO. The rest of Jocelyn's daughters are accounted for.
+Salamon2 hmm do you think sansa has lots more friends of stark then realizes then?
I do. I really do, but my issue right now with her is that she's helping LF work against them all.
LF works for the Iron Bank. I would not be surprised if he succeeds in seizing the IT in WOW.
The mad mouse was with brienne maybe he came looking for Sansa. I think there's something your missing between Sansa and Lothor Brune!
It breaks my heart knowing that you’ve probably created a better, deeper story than the one that you’re reading
Too often it seems that you come up with theories first, and then use any kind of information you can think of to support your claims. It's is really telling, in this video, when you make weird and unsupported claims on the female anatomy. However, I love how crazy you are, so keep it coming.
+PandaBree www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/puberty/Pages/Physical-Development-Girls-What-to-Expect.aspx
youngwomenshealth.org/2010/04/21/puberty/
www.today.com/health/when-should-young-girls-period-start-2D80555382
+Preston Jacobs From your own source, "During puberty, the same changes happen to all girls, but the time they happen is different for every girl." It also stays far away from making any definite generalizations. As a chick myself, I wouldn't make these kind of assumptions about someone else.
+PandaBree Menses typically start approximately 6 months after breast buds (Tanner Stage 2)
+PandaBree Who said every girl? The video says that its possible, just improbable. It's just one suspicious thing among many things about Alayne's story that shouldn't add up for Myranda.
+Velu Siva That's unfortunate for me then, because it took me three years, and a lot of teasing, to start developing. Even weirder for my friends that developed a lot before they got their period.
I'm aware that there are averages, but I'm just stating not every person falls near that average. It would be strange if they were saying that she was 6, and she had large breasts, but the given time frame isn't any where as unrealistic as Mr. Jacobs is claiming.
Holy heck this reveals a whole new dimension to game of thrones conversations. I loved this conversation but I never thought it had so much meaning! Thank you for these breakdowns!
Breast development starts a year prior to menarchy. Also, until the last 50-75 years ago the average start of menstruation was 14-16 years- mostly due to poorer nutrition and generally lower body weight. So there is nothing in Sansa's story that contradicts normal female physiology.
Not really though. Girls like Sansa were not that physically active back then remember? Intense physical activity is a major factor as well. Plus, Sansa is highborn so it's not like her nutrition would be that bad compared to the average person these days. Peasants(the average person back then) are a different story obviously. Also for all we know, all the shit we put in food today, is a possible cause of 11 year olds going into puberty too. Researchers are finding that has been an overall increase in environmental estrogen after all.
So I guess we could say that Littlefinger is just waiting for .... the other shoe to drop
Excellent analysis, as usual.
Probably your best/most plausible one yet.
Her shoe would be blown away by the wind. It would probably end up hundreds of thousands of meters away from Lysa's body. Plus Lysa's own shoes would probably fall off too when she fell.
So while I am yet again impressed by your theory and how you manage to create it all with such a small little detail, I just don't see it as happening.
I know truly want a House Royce dedicated series. Not because of Nestor Royce, but mostly because of Waymar Royce. A Night's Watch analysis would probably suffice.
yes just before bed time :)
+tiberius gracchus Me too :D
Ahmed Ghazwan, cool my dude.
Would they find the shoe though? Certainly not anywhere near Liza’s body I would think. It is a long fall, the winds are strong, and it is not like we are talking iron studded shoes or wooden clogs - if she managed to drop it we are more likely talking about a slipper or something along those lines. How heavy and cumbersome would a ladies slipper have to be before it would end up near Liza?
I think this was the first of Preston's videos I saw. And I am still waiting for the next half of Littlefinger's story.
Alayne Stone may be a bastard, that does not mean she can not speak like a high born. Dunk gave Egg a firm correction when Egg called Bloodraven lowdown. "Sir Bynden is higborn, but a bastard." That does not change Miranda's conclusions, but it does sound lime something a schemer would be aware of.
Im just now getting into the GOT theory sphere and I'm just shocked by how deeply the text can be read into.
I can’t believe you think that it’s suspicious that’s she said she was 14 and just had her first period....that’s still a normal age for a first period lol
This whole assumption is based on the premise that the shoe will not fall away from the body, being unaffected by the wind during the fall and / or after the fall.
Yes but that's not how stories work. George wrote to create that pathway if he needs it later down the line.
Right or wrong your theories are always scintillating. Making me want to read the books or at least listen to them.
The only flaw that I find in thisis the fact that Nestor Toyce would find the Shoe. I mean, it's a pretty freakin big drop, what makes you think the shoe would be right there on sight? It could have have been blown away by the wind somewhere else or bounced of down the mountain. The only explanation for it to be right there next to Lady Lysa's body (or pudding) would be that she clutched it tightly hopping it was an oddl shaped dragon egg and that her ice cold heart would somehow nurture it back to health midflight and make it hatch into a fully grown dragon that would fly her to safety. nevermind that even if she did hold onto it to the very last moment, the impact has been to known to make corpses resemble the name of the band that wrote Bullet With Butterfly Wings, so it's safe to say the show would blow away as well, and there is no particular reason that Royce would wander off looking for whatever more stuff after finding most of the more solid remains of her former liege lady, and it's not more probable that he would stumble upon a shoe, just one shoe, before he could spot the big gory squash on the ground with a silky sky blue gown at the epicenter.
Preston, the Myranda theory is great but the shoe... nah. Man, imagine the rocks beneath the Eyrie. Apart from the occasional body, there must be TONS of shit lying around, including many shoes and whatnot. Anything you need to get rid of? Simply toss it out of the window. Broken things, spoiled food, pails of shit and piss - make them fly! Nobody cared.
Also, shadowcats!
Also, I imagine the air currents carrying the light shoes far far away from the body.
Its been 4 years and we are still waiting for the winds of winter so we can find out if this is true
+Preston Jacobs
Mindblowing! Thanks for another great video. What do you think about the 5th suitor theory? Can it be truth? Especially if, as you just proved, Littlefinger may be in trouble, so the marriage of Sansa and Harry may not finish with "and they lived happily ever after"? :)
+Ola Gawle my theory is that you should explain your theories, when you ask if people believe in your theory.
+Holypikemanz Hi :) Sorry, I thought it's a known theory. It goes like this: In Dunk & Egg there is a tourney in Ashford. It's young lady's Ashford name day, so 5 champions are chosen to fight on her behalf. They come from houses:
Baratheon, Tyrell, Lannister, Hardyng & Targeryan.
According the theory, 13 years old Lady Ashara is a reference to Sansa, and the champions are reference of all Sansa's suitors.
All of the champions failed during the tourney and (for now) all Sansa's "husbands to be" failed to become her rightful husband... Joffrey Barathen, Willas Tyrel, Tyrion Lannister (marrage not consumed) and now Harry Hardyng may fail if Littlefinger makes a mistake.
If Sansa will be somehow later in Varys hands, than he may plan to merry her to Aegon Targeryan... what do you think? :)
+Ola Gawle That theory sounds exactly like George's style of writing- repeating events with the same elements, just mixed around. Rhaegar winning the tournament at Harrenhal is very similar to Loras winning the tournament at King's Landing, blue roses given to a stark woman etc. Bael the bard is similar to Peter (Bael)ish, both people stealing a stark woman. By the way, I love your cat videos!
I enjoy your channel. One of my favorites.
Chaos is a laddah!
Genius... Martin is a genius for coming up with this and you are for deciphering it.
breast development has nothing to do with menstruation.
+angellover02171 www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/puberty/Pages/Physical-Development-Girls-What-to-Expect.aspx
youngwomenshealth.org/2010/04/21/puberty/
www.today.com/health/when-should-young-girls-period-start-2D80555382
you might want to read your own links first mense doesnt cause breast development.
+angellover02171 We're not talking about causation, we're talking about correlation.
+Preston Jacobs yep there isn't a coralation between breast development and first mense.
+Preston Jacobs Exactly! There is a series of events that are correlated with typical female development and you had it right, Preston. Thelarche (breast development) occurs before Menarche (menses). The usual onset of puberty is around 10.5 years for females.
Man, just like having a quality stereo cd player is required to truly appreciate the beauty of a Pink Floyd album, your theory videos are required to truly understand the intricate work of GRRM, I wouldn't have spotted this in a million re-reads, keep up the good work!
That third shoe would never have landed in the same place.
Why do you keep calling Robert Aryn "Sweet Robin"?
+Roger McKay Sweetrobin is his nickname in the book, much like Littlefinger is Peter Baelish's nickname.
+Roger McKay Someone physics so we know for sure!
He's called Sweetrobin. That's why. Book and show.
Qarnatics Cuhz
I never heard ANYONE call him that on the show.
I can't imagine anyone would find or notice the shoe. It's a long fall down a very windy mountainside and the shoe would have landed hundreds of feet away from the body and possibly bounced even further down the mountain. From what Lysa says and Robin's enthusiasm for making people fly it seems like they use the Moon Door fairly often, so the landing zone would be littered with all sorts of debris.
Not a bad theory at all. Clearly Miranda is pumping Sansa for information. So if your theories are correct, Sansa is in mortal danger since LittleFinger won't sacrifice himself for her. Can't wait for the next book!!
The damn shoe could have landed no where near Lysa's body, even if it was close unless you were looking for a shoe it could easily go unnoticed.
But you're cooking with gas on the Randa stuff.
I would like to request a video on Mace Tyrell. I realize you give priority to people on patreon, but I think Mace is one of the most undervalued and overlooked players in Westeros. He may be considered an oaf by Olenna, but she calls everyone an idiot while keeping her true believes to herself. Mace's army was the only force to defeat Robert Baratheon, he then effectively kept his army out of the Usurper's war by massing his fleet and army at Storms End (thereby perserving his strength while claiming to keep loyal). He then manages to get his daughter and youngest son into extermely powerful positions, and slowly accumulates more power through politicing, to the point that house Tyrell is as powerful, if not more so, than the Lannisters. Furthermore, if he is truely an oaf, why is the rest of his family more than competent? Olenna is a master deciever, Mace's oldest soon is quiet accomplished dispite his injuries, his two other sons are great warriors and more than intelligent, and his daughter is more cunning, more aware of the game, and better fit to rule than most other people in Kings Landing. Olenna's 'oaf' comment is a smoke screen to how smart Mace turely is.
I don't think so. Not everyone is plotting, some people are genuinely dumb.
Mace Tyrell did not defeat Robert Baratheon. It was Randyll Tarly who defeated him and Mace just goes around claiming that he beat Robert and Randyl can't say anything because he's a subordinate and not the lord of the reach.
It was Olenna who brokered Margery's marriage to Renly and then Joffery. His family is competent because they just are and it has nothing to do with him. Tytos Lannister was an incompetent ruler but all of his children are very competent and how is that possible then?
I have one problem with 3 shoe theory... thas is snow, terrain and probably more mess... we dont know how many bodies were there, because sweetrobin probably executed many people, or we dont know if moondoor was nevere used as "trash can" by lazy servants... therefore they maybe find much much more, so one shoe could not bring their attention
I get turned on by the Vale's politics & schemes