@@showtime112 ever heard about the siege of jadotiville involving irish troops on a un peace keeping mission in the congo?.....it has a somewhat ironic twist to it.
I love how you craft your videos. The narration is on-point, but the black and white editing, subtle sounds and music of the cultures involved is excellent.
Chalmers 'Slick' Goodlin was the Bell Aircraft Company test pilot who priced himself out of the opportunity to be the first man to break the sound barrier in the X-1 experimental rocket plane.
A very interesting conflict. Especially the Avia S-199s, which were mechanically inferior yet their pilots were skilled enough to take the fight to the Egyptians.
"Blue on Blue", friendly fire is not that friendly. 3 different sides using the same airplane model, obviously this would happen sooner or latter. Thanks for this EXCELLENT historical video and keep on working.
@@showtime112 Great, whenever you have time please make a video of the Argentinian A-4s attacking the British fleet, the HMS Coventry would be great. Thanks ¡¡¡¡
Wow, that was a great story, great video! :) Many years ago - around 2006 or 2007 I saw the first story telling cinematic video which was made with IL2 Strumovik 1946 (it was an awesome WWII combat flight simulator back than those days). This was about this event, I still have that movie in the good old AVI format. :D
@@showtime112 I've just posted that exact video in comment under a video, to someones very similar channel. It was within a month I think. I thought it was under one of your videos. But than here it is, very cinematic one :) It was called: "Brothers in Arms". ua-cam.com/video/cfExeLT-j18/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/JQiZUNyHgAQ/v-deo.html
Thanks! It is possible, for the 1948 War. Many aircraft used in that war are available in DCS (or at least very similar ones). There might be another video similar to this one soon.
very picky about the DCS channels i look at... i have slowly worked thru a lot your content...you've knocked it out of the park, man. in the immortal words of Cyrus the Virus: "love your work."
You are mostly right to blame the RAF. But It was also their bosses fault, the UK Labor's Government fault for refusing to recognize Israel or Israeli airspace at the time, The British had already threatened to attack Israeli forces it saw as endangering their hold on the Suez Canal and vis-avis a mutual defense treaty that had been signed with the Egyptian King. They were already likely sharing intelligence gained from reconnaissance flights with the Egyptians at the very least. The Israeli's assumed that the RAF was making good on that threat. The British were acting like a colonial master and had at the time had not recognized Israel's right to exist. You can read about the parliamentary debate on the incident here, but to summarize: Winston Churchill who was in opposition to the UK's official refusal at the time [Early 1949] to recognize the new Jewish State: "Whether the right hon. Gentleman likes it or not, and whether we like it or not, the coming into being of a Jewish State in Palestine is an event in world history to be viewed in the perspective, not of a generation or a century, but in the perspective of a thousand, two thousand or even three thousand years. That is a standard of temporal values or time values which seems very much out of accord with the perpetual click-clack of our rapidly-changing moods and of the age in which we live." hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1949-01-26/debates/251e0075-50f2-48f0-8d03-45365384cffe/MiddleEast
Excellent video! I’m learning more & more about military aviation history watching your channel. Never heard of this incident before. RIP Sergeant Sayer. 🫡
Excelent video , thanks for info about that part of history. Svaka čast dobro odrađen video, nisam imao pojma da se toliko toga događalo tamo tih godina 👍
@@showtime112 kakva je bila reakcija biritanaca na obaranja njihovih aviona i smrti pilota? Kako su Izraelci tretirali zarobljene britanske pilote, kao neprijatelje ili kao treću nepristranu stranku aka vraćali ih Britancima?
@@moxie_ST McElhaw opisuje zarobljavanje u intervjuu. Stavili su ih u zgradu tj. improvizirai zatvor gdje su držali svoje vlastite dezertere. NIje bilo niakvog lošeg tretmana a ubrzo su ih poslali brodom na Cipar. Britanija je nakraju samo tražila odštetu (što Izraeli nikada nije platio).
Fantastic and original story which based on a sequence of bad events due to visual recognition mistakes. It was the first conflict that we could qualified of "installation war" or the independence war. Three more will arrive later.
the Brits were training arab countries like Jordan and Egypt, they provided arab countries with their newest armaments, tanks, and airplanes, and they expected Israel to be eliminated.
I do realize that Il-2 1946 is somewhat (a lot, maybe?😁) long in the tooth but, with all the community made mods, i think it's still very good looking...and you could find a LOT more historical planes there! Just a suggestion...Thank you, and keep up the outstanding work! 👋👋👋👍👍👍
Thanks for the suggestion. It does offer a pretty good range of aircraft, I agree. It does look pretty dated. The current IL-2 also offers a big range which I haven't used as much as I would like to. I'll think about it.
@@SmashedGlass This might be because i'm sorta dinosaur myself! 🤣🤣 I started flight combat simming in '97, so the latest modded instances of Il.-2 still look quite pretty to me. Anyway, for historical reenactments, it provides nearly EVERY aircraft that has ever flown (together with some which actually never left the drawing board!).
MAJOR correction: it's a major misconception among you Europeans that the "Palestinians" were Arabs who were native to the region. JEWS were the original Palestinians since the Romans kicked the Jews' asses in the Second Jewish Rebellion (aka Bar Kokhba Rebellion) from 132-135 CE and renamed Judea as "Palestine" which was the Latin for "Philistina", home of the Philistines, the constant thorn in the side of the Jews in Judea living in modern-day Gaza. Arabs and especially Muslims came along much, much, much, MUCH later in history.
@@showtime112 Maybe you should get your nomenclature correct before spreading more misinformation about a people who have been smeared and massacred for centuries because of false beliefs, starting with "you killed our Lord"...
Brits and Yanks and Canadians fighting each other in Spitfires. Interesting - what a crazy war. And not to mention the fact that a mere few years earlier the same pilots would have used the same airfields and bumped shoulders in the same mess halls, while fighting a common enemy. A couple of observations... -Was that low-level photo recon pass of the bombed convoy REALLY necessary? Any pilot would have known instinctively that whoever's on the ground will consider it another attack and have their fingers already on every AA trigger, itching to retaliate. -Fifteen Tempests escorted by Spitfires.... Doesn't really sound like "investigate", more like "revenge".
It was crazy alright. I agree that flying over a recently attacked column wasn't the best idea and it's no wonder situation developed the way it did. And the next sortie flown by the RAF was probably sent with the thought of an open war against Israel.
I experiment a bit and I try not to mark the videos as 'gaming' (because essentially, they are not) But YT thinks it knows better 😁 Thanks for the advice, my skill as a warbird pilot is not what I'd like it to be.
I read of a WW2 US ace who was flying for Israel in 1948 and using a Mustang he shot down an RAF spitfire (Griffin engined). Apparently the RAF then sent two Tempests to investigate, but they didn't find either aircraft.
As far as I can find, Israeli Mustangs claimed one British Mosquito and three Egyptian MC.205s. This sounds like the story depicted in this video but with some facts changed.
Not v. good that particular RAF flight, were they, either that or they were - not thinking they had a war on personally - caught 1/2 asleep. Another good presentation, thx.
Thanks! You mean the Spitfires used here? Basically, two variants were used. Mk IX was used by Egypt and Israel. Some Israeli Spitfires were clipped wing models. The British used Mk XVIII which is a late, Griffon powered model, faster than the Mk IX.
Robert Gandt's chapter on this conflict is well written: He points out that one of the volunteer IAF pilot's defended his decision to attack the British in this battle: "What do you mean.. Whaddyamean they were British... either you have air supremacy or you don't". [From "Angels in the Sky" by Robert Gandt]
If you see your troops on the ground attacked, with vehicles on fire, some airplanes flying over them and even fired upon from the ground, it would be hard to see that those are not the same guys who performed the attack.
Operation Peochar by pakistan army aviation could be a good video idea One of the largest heli borne ops ever A Mi17 was shot down and a cobra damaged beyond repair
I don't know if you guys know that Paul Reuben's (Pee Wee Herman) father was very involved in these early days of Isreal's air force. I guess they both were good at handling a joystick.
You should do a video when a Swiss Me109 fighter shot down a German Me 109 (I think it was either that or an American P51, don't remember clearly) when it drifted into Switzerland's airspace during WW2. Also during the Vietnam War a US Bell UH-1 Huey shot down an NVA An-2, check it out
The Swiss shot down a significant number of both German and Allied aircraft. I hope to cover some of that someday. I just need to find a detailed source. And see if there are any Swiss skins for the Bf109 available.
Are you unaware that the British were allied with the Egyptians at the time and threatening to attack Israeli forces operating in the Sinai, or are you motivated by some ugly instinct?
Thanks for the video. It is of note that pre ReIndependence of Israel in 1948, all people in The Land of Israel, Judean, Arab and other had documents from the occupying English authorities under the so called palestine Mandate. Hence, everyone was called a Palestinian, my mother included. The word is a misnomer from the name Philistine, Plishtim in Hebrew, meaning invaders.
So called palestine? u are so brainwashed it’s unbelievable. U believe palestine were invaders?😂😂the irony is unbelievable😂 israel is a fake country based on apartheid and lies. Wouldve never became a thing without england
Very odd indeed. While they had bomber engines and weren't very good they were all the Israelis could buy because of the embargo. Only Czechoslovakia was willing to sell armament to them.
I thought at one point the Israelis were actually of all things using FW 190s and Messerschmitt bf109s, particularly in fighting Egypt who was using Supermarine Spitfires. Kind of turns the tables considering what the Nazis were but I guess practicality does matter
IL-2 Great Battles doesn't have a desert map. There's Il-2 Desert Wings which is based on an older version but I don't own it and it doesn't look as giid as DCS. Il use those two sims depending on the case.
Gotta love a video of Royal Egyptian Air Force Spitfires-in their absolutely gorgeous camouflage and markings-bombing and strafing a Zionist military column.
Before this clash there was another Spitfire on Spitfire clash between Egyptian and RAF Spitfires over Ramat David airfield in northern Israel. The Egyptians had not realised that after the British most left, a few remained behind to cover the withdrawl, so attacked them, thinking they were Israeli. Again the British suffered the loss of a few Spitfires, for no losses on the other side. BTW, it is rather offensive to call the Jews 'Settlers'. Many had been there for hundreds of years since their return, whilst some had never left, and had been there since Biblical times.
This story will be covered too. But Egyptians lost five Spitfires in the attack, four of them shot down by the pilots of 208 Squadron. As for Jews in Palestine, a certain number had lived there since the biblical times but most had really come quite recently relative to that time. Especially after WWII.
The entire authorative (accurate) history of ancient Israel of Antiquity, though its torturous rebirth in 1948 (+ the prelude of extended violence 😳 prior to 1948), and continuing today in Oct 2022, is extremely fascinating, exciting, so informative, and relevant to contemporary issues. I strongly recommend studying it for better understanding the broader context of todays societal chaos.
The British had already threatened to attack Israeli forces it saw as endangering their hold on the Suez Canal and vis-avis a mutual defense treaty that had been signed with the Egyptian King. They were already sharing intelligence gained from reconnaissance flights with the Egyptians at the very least. The Israeli's assumed that the RAF was making good on that threat. The British were acting like a colonial master and had at the time had not recognized Israel's right to exist. You can read about the parliamentary debate on the incident here, but to summarize: Winston Churchill who was in opposition to the UK's official refusal at the time [Early 1949] to recognize the new Jewish State: "Whether the right hon. Gentleman likes it or not, and whether we like it or not, the coming into being of a Jewish State in Palestine is an event in world history to be viewed in the perspective, not of a generation or a century, but in the perspective of a thousand, two thousand or even three thousand years. That is a standard of temporal values or time values which seems very much out of accord with the perpetual click-clack of our rapidly-changing moods and of the age in which we live." hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1949-01-26/debates/251e0075-50f2-48f0-8d03-45365384cffe/MiddleEast
You mean the Tempest shootdown? Currently, it's a bit hard to do. We don't have the Tempest in DCS. We have it it IL-2 but there's no desert terrain there.
RAF intelligence was cooperating with Egypt and whether these [low-level] reconnaissance flights crossed into Israeli air space : "[MP] Mr. S. Silverman: May I ask two questions? The first is: In view of the precautions taken to avoid any incident by warning the Egyptian Government that these planes were to go, can my right hon. and learned Friend say why similar precautions were not taken by warning the Israeli Government that these planes were going, and the purpose of the flight? The second question is: Since under the Anglo-Egyptian Treaty we are entitled to fly planes outside the Canal Zone only on training flights unless the Treaty has been invoked, and since this was not a training flight, was not the flight of these planes a breach of the Anglo-Egyptian Treaty?" [Answer from the Secretary of State for Air, Mr. Henderson]: "..Apparently the Egyptian Government do not take this view that there has been a breach, first of all because they have been well aware of the fact that these reconnaissances were taking place, and, in fact, as I said in my statement, they participated in the first one on 30th December [1948]. [MP]Mr. Boothby: May we take it that whoever else gave instructions for these reconnaissance flights over a battle area, they were not authorised by the right hon. and learned Gentleman in his capacity as Secretary of State for Air [Henderson]? §Mr. Henderson I certainly am not going to shirk my share of any responsibility. I thought I had made it clear to the House that I had, in consultation with other Ministers, or after consultation with other Ministers, sanctioned in principle the carrying out of these tactical reconnaissances. §Mr. Thomas Reid In view of one of my right hon. and learned Friend's previous statements, that our planes did not cross the Egyptian frontier, would he say if our pilots have made statements asserting that they had flown over the Egyptian frontier into Palestine? §Mr. Henderson Yes, Sir. There is a conflict of statements between Pilot-Officer Cooper, on the one hand, and Pilot-Officer Close, on the other hand, that can be determined only as and when we have the court of inquiry...." [elsewhere here they outright admit high-level flights like the RAF Mosquito the Israeli's had shot down earlier (11/20/1948) in the war that they had named the "Shufti Kite" was violating Israeli airspace with impunity and this definition/distinction they were was causing much confusion to the British MK's until it was disclosed.] api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1949/jan/19/middle-east-raf-reconnaissance-flights
Israel is a welfare state. They could not even survive on their own! This is their nature. They attack their so called friends! They better hope that Great Britan and the U.S. never wakeup!
It depends on a situation. If RAF boys were again surprised, they would likely lose. Also, none of the four were WWII veterans while the two Israeli pilots were. Even today, Israeli pilots are more likely to be experienced.
@@showtime112 yes, but many of them are trained by British and American pilots. They actually send Israelis to the U.S. for flight school. Israel only has basic flight school. They have very limited special training forces in all areas of their military.
Showtime 112 the Jewish insurgency in Palestine 1 February 1944 - 14 May 1948 against the British mandate, the British view jewish has ungrateful, for their help establish the mandate for Jewish colonies in Palestine and helping the Jewish against the Arabs in the Arab revolt 1936-1939 and the Nazi and Fascist, the Jewish view the British blocking them with colonial with the White Paper act. That said the Israeli use B 17 bombers to bomb Cairo and the Egyptian use C 47 cargo planes to bomb Tel Aviv, air warfare was just in its infancy in the Middle East conflicts both side side was in the junk yards looking for surplus World War two equipment.
And for banning Jewish refugees from trying to flee the German murder factories. The British navy won some great victories during this time such as the Struma and the Exodus. GLORIOUS TIME
Now I understand it, now it dawned on me why Israel helped us so generously in the Malvinas War! Long live Israel forever, and thanks again for so much help in 1982!
Alliances and loyalties can change quickly. Britain was all but formally allied with Arab nations in this conflict, including Egypt. But in 1956, it attacked Egypt and allied itself with Israel.
@@showtime112 WRONG and big mistake in the issue Argentina-Israel, theyt are our brothers for EVER... and 41 years after, they still heping us, try to get this simple fact... I am croatian like you (Rijeka, 23 May 1970, shortly after that,we had to escape to Argentina ), and your lies about Argentina are damaging the credibility of Croatia... by the way, Croatia owes 90 percent of its independence to Argentina, with the 4,646 tons of weapons, rifles, mortars, and 155mm howitzers that we sent to it in 1992-1993... I myself worked with the Argentine officers who supervised those arms shipments in Greek and Panamanian ships..... you should have a bit of honor, and make a video of how old Argentine planes sank NINE British ships bristling with last generation missiles...
@@showtime112 4,646 tons of weapons, rifles, mortars, and 155mm howitzers that we sent to it in 1992-1993... I myself worked with the Argentine officers who supervised those arms shipments in Greek and Panamanian ships..
Negdje sam pročitao da su neki od pilota išli u SSSR i da su probali ispaliti radarski vođenu raketu kratkog dometa sa 21-ice (RS-2U mislim). Ali nije im se svidjelo to što se cijelo vrijeme trebao držati radarski zahvat pa su onda preporučili da se ta vrsta raketa ni ne nabavlja. Drugih za MiG-21 nije ni bilo. Ne mogu se sjetiti točnog izvora ali mislim da je to razlog.
@@showtime112 Not at that time, get them while they weak and before they become a menace to the region. (Government not people ) I am quarter Jewish myself.
The RAF was not at war with Israel, and not flying over Israeli territory. They never expected to be attacked by what was supposed to be a friendly state. The RAF aircraft were clearly marked and known to be in the area, the Israelis chose to attack anyway. This episode came very close to Britain going to war with Israel and soured relations for many years.
I beleive the RAF aircraft were not carrying ammunition as they were in a policing roll so the two pilots flying for the Israel side should have been credited with a murder and an attempted murder
@@peterbird1076 The RAF were patrolling the Canal Zone and the aircraft were not armed. The Israelis with ex-WW2 fighter aces in their ranks, ambushed them. The RAF planes were painted totally different from the Egyptian, and should have been recognized. Its like in 1967 when Israel attacked USS Liberty, a clearly marked American ship in International waters. It was repeatedly attacked killing 34 and wounding 121 of her crew.
I think RAF planes were armed. Otherwise, why would Cooper try to dogfight Goodlin? With his Mk XVIII he could have easily escaped. The Israeli pilots jumped to conclusions but again, seeing your friendly trucks on fire and a bunch of planes flying above them, who would have thought they had nothing to do with it? When the two pilots came back, their superiors were quite upset and worried about possible consequences.
Da, stvarno je ironično da je baš prvi borbeni avion Izraela upravo najpoznatiji lovac nacističke Njemačke (tj. njegova varijanta). Ali stvari nekad tako ispadnu.
@@nrudnjanin Podgorica im je bila stajalište na kojem su točili gorivo a tadašnja jugoslavenska vlast je inzistirala da nose jugoslavenske oznade pri preletu.
There was no war between Israel & the "Palestinians" in 1948 as the "Palestinians" were only created in 1964 in Cairo by Egypt's Nasser, his Egyptian born agent Yasser Arafat & the KGB. The war was between Israel & the surrounding Arab nations with very limited help from the grand Mufti's terror gangs. In the mid-1930's when starting the Arab Revolt against British in Mandatory Palestine the grand Mufti Mohammed Al Husseini rejected any notion of "Palestinian " citizenship for the Arabs & declared in an interview to a Damascus newspaper " We Arabs are all citizens of a Greater Syria " Under the terms of the 1920 San Remo agreement the British Mandate for Palestine ( which included the area what was to be illegally made into Trans-Jordan ) only provided for the creation of a Jewish state ( which the British to their everlasting shame failed to carry out ) & for the protection of the rights of other residents & minorities as existed under the Ottoman Empire - ie, the Arabs were regarded as "Subject People " & stateless nomads and not citizens .
For one thing, thank you for contributing additional info. And calling the Arabs who lived in the region under British mandate later split between them and the Jews 'Palestinians' might not be absolutely accurate but calling them Syrians or something else might be confusing. For example, Byzantines didn't call themselves that. They called themselves 'Romans' ,but if you say that 'Romans did this or that in 10th century AD', people might not understand what you mean.
@@showtime112 The "Palestinian" Grand Mufti Mohammed al Husseini from a wealthy Arab family in Jerusalem & their original leader was the one who defined them as Syrians because during Ottoman times the area that is today 4 separate states - Israel, Lebanon, Jordan & Syria where all part of the Ottoman Turkish province of Syria & ruled from Damascus. After starting the 1936 Arab Revolt in Mandatory Palestine against the British he resided in French controlled Syria & later with the help of the Vichy French moved to Berlin where he was Hitlers guest & advisor on Arab affairs and raised 3 Muslim SS divisions to fight for Germany in the Balkans & as concentration camp guards ( about 30K Muslims mostly from south eastern Europe joined the SS plus around 2K Arabs including Palestinians, Iraqis, Syrians & Egyptians ). in 1946 after WW2 now a convicted war criminal wanted by the British he returned to Syria to coordinate attacks on Jews in Palestine & placed his terror gangs under Syrian army control during the 1948 war( He died many years later in Damascus ) You will find details & photos of the Mufti & Hitler on Wiki
I like how 3 nations were using the same Aircraft in the same Theatre of operations in a rudimentary era without electronic friend/foe indicators.
Something like that simply had to happen. Thanks for commenting!
Hell we see that now in Ukraine
And befooling whom
There were rudimentary IFFs since before WW2
@@showtime112 ever heard about the siege of jadotiville involving irish troops on a un peace keeping mission in the congo?.....it has a somewhat ironic twist to it.
I love how you craft your videos. The narration is on-point, but the black and white editing, subtle sounds and music of the cultures involved is excellent.
Thanks! I like adding those elements, I feel it improves the viewer experience.
@@showtime112 Please continue. It truly makes a big difference verse just telling a story. You paint the picture. Cheers
Chalmers 'Slick' Goodlin was the Bell Aircraft Company test pilot who priced himself out of the opportunity to be the first man to break the sound barrier in the X-1 experimental rocket plane.
Thank you for adding info!
The sound barrier was broken before Yeager officially broke it.
@@jimmoynahan9910In dives yes, level flight no
A very interesting conflict. Especially the Avia S-199s, which were mechanically inferior yet their pilots were skilled enough to take the fight to the Egyptians.
Thanks for commenting! I hope to explore the role of S-199 in the conflict a bit more in the future.
@@showtime112 Looking forward to it! :)
"Blue on Blue", friendly fire is not that friendly. 3 different sides using the same airplane model, obviously this would happen sooner or latter. Thanks for this EXCELLENT historical video and keep on working.
Thanks for continuing to watch! There are a few very interesting stories left there and they might also be covered in the future.
@@showtime112 Great, whenever you have time please make a video of the Argentinian A-4s attacking the British fleet, the HMS Coventry would be great. Thanks ¡¡¡¡
Such a confusing time in history... Very interesting video Showtime112.
Thank you for the comment! The situation was definitely not a simple one.
Wow, that was a great story, great video! :) Many years ago - around 2006 or 2007 I saw the first story telling cinematic video which was made with IL2 Strumovik 1946 (it was an awesome WWII combat flight simulator back than those days). This was about this event, I still have that movie in the good old AVI format. :D
Glad you liked it, thanks! I would be interested to see the video you mention. I didn't find anything similar on YT.
@@showtime112 I've just posted that exact video in comment under a video, to someones very similar channel. It was within a month I think. I thought it was under one of your videos. But than here it is, very cinematic one :) It was called: "Brothers in Arms".
ua-cam.com/video/cfExeLT-j18/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/JQiZUNyHgAQ/v-deo.html
Trully outstanding historical videos!! Is it possible to do more of the earlier Middle Eastern conflicts?
Thanks! It is possible, for the 1948 War. Many aircraft used in that war are available in DCS (or at least very similar ones). There might be another video similar to this one soon.
@@showtime112 I subscribe to Jim's request. I find it a very interesting and fascinating subject!
very picky about the DCS channels i look at...
i have slowly worked thru a lot your content...you've knocked it out of the park, man.
in the immortal words of Cyrus the Virus: "love your work."
Thank you very much for your feedback! It is always a good thing to win over some picky viewers 😁😁😁
I’m ready for someone to debate me on this
This was the British military’s fault. Change my mind
You are mostly right to blame the RAF. But It was also their bosses fault, the UK Labor's Government fault for refusing to recognize Israel or Israeli airspace at the time, The British had already threatened to attack Israeli forces it saw as endangering their hold on the Suez Canal and vis-avis a mutual defense treaty that had been signed with the Egyptian King. They were already likely sharing intelligence gained from reconnaissance flights with the Egyptians at the very least. The Israeli's assumed that the RAF was making good on that threat. The British were acting like a colonial master and had at the time had not recognized Israel's right to exist. You can read about the parliamentary debate on the incident here, but to summarize: Winston Churchill who was in opposition to the UK's official refusal at the time [Early 1949] to recognize the new Jewish State: "Whether the right hon. Gentleman likes it or not, and whether we like it or not, the coming into being of a Jewish State in Palestine is an event in world history to be viewed in the perspective, not of a generation or a century, but in the perspective of a thousand, two thousand or even three thousand years. That is a standard of temporal values or time values which seems very much out of accord with the perpetual click-clack of our rapidly-changing moods and of the age in which we live." hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1949-01-26/debates/251e0075-50f2-48f0-8d03-45365384cffe/MiddleEast
Fascinating history. Thank you for posting.
Thank you for appreciating it!
Excellent video! I’m learning more & more about military aviation history watching your channel. Never heard of this incident before. RIP Sergeant Sayer. 🫡
Thanks! This incident is one of those 'forgotten' stories that I personally love to discover.
Another great video about lesser known battles!
Thanks for commenting!
Very nice job mate, specially I like the "new" tone of your voice, it makes one to be engaged and paying more attention to the details.Very well done!
The voice recording is now mastered by a professional. Glad you noticed it.
Excelent video , thanks for info about that part of history.
Svaka čast dobro odrađen video, nisam imao pojma da se toliko toga događalo tamo tih godina 👍
Hvala! Taj prvi izraelsko-arapski rat je puno manje poznat od kasnijih. Mislim da je red da se malo ukaže pažnja i na njega.
@@showtime112 kakva je bila reakcija biritanaca na obaranja njihovih aviona i smrti pilota?
Kako su Izraelci tretirali zarobljene britanske pilote, kao neprijatelje ili kao treću nepristranu stranku aka vraćali ih Britancima?
@@moxie_ST McElhaw opisuje zarobljavanje u intervjuu. Stavili su ih u zgradu tj. improvizirai zatvor gdje su držali svoje vlastite dezertere. NIje bilo niakvog lošeg tretmana a ubrzo su ih poslali brodom na Cipar. Britanija je nakraju samo tražila odštetu (što Izraeli nikada nije platio).
That intro was awesome probably one of the best you made
Oh, thanks! I was rather happy with it.
@@showtime112 keep it up those video are on point
Fantastic and original story which based on a sequence of bad events due to visual recognition mistakes.
It was the first conflict that we could qualified of "installation war" or the independence war.
Three more will arrive later.
Thanks you for the comment and for your continuous presence!
the Brits were training arab countries like Jordan and Egypt, they provided arab countries with their newest armaments, tanks, and airplanes, and they expected Israel to be eliminated.
I do realize that Il-2 1946 is somewhat (a lot, maybe?😁) long in the tooth but, with all the community made mods, i think it's still very good looking...and you could find a LOT more historical planes there! Just a suggestion...Thank you, and keep up the outstanding work! 👋👋👋👍👍👍
Thanks for the suggestion. It does offer a pretty good range of aircraft, I agree. It does look pretty dated. The current IL-2 also offers a big range which I haven't used as much as I would like to. I'll think about it.
But it is still hobbled by its graphics engine being 20+ years old. Great game, just basically a dinosaur compared to DCS
@@SmashedGlass Something like that 😁
@@SmashedGlass This might be because i'm sorta dinosaur myself! 🤣🤣 I started flight combat simming in '97, so the latest modded instances of Il.-2 still look quite pretty to me. Anyway, for historical reenactments, it provides nearly EVERY aircraft that has ever flown (together with some which actually never left the drawing board!).
Love this content. Please don't stop!
It's very nice to hear, thank you! The plan is to keep going as long as possible.
Richard Nixon: "I'm told you have the best army in the world."
Moishe Dayan: "I don't know. We've only ever fought arabs."
Great video. Greetings from Czech Republic :)
Thanks for the feedback!
MAJOR correction: it's a major misconception among you Europeans that the "Palestinians" were Arabs who were native to the region. JEWS were the original Palestinians since the Romans kicked the Jews' asses in the Second Jewish Rebellion (aka Bar Kokhba Rebellion) from 132-135 CE and renamed Judea as "Palestine" which was the Latin for "Philistina", home of the Philistines, the constant thorn in the side of the Jews in Judea living in modern-day Gaza. Arabs and especially Muslims came along much, much, much, MUCH later in history.
The video is not about politics nor does it try to prove the point of view of any specific side. But thank you for contributing additional info.
@@showtime112 Maybe you should get your nomenclature correct before spreading more misinformation about a people who have been smeared and massacred for centuries because of false beliefs, starting with "you killed our Lord"...
Brits and Yanks and Canadians fighting each other in Spitfires. Interesting - what a crazy war. And not to mention the fact that a mere few years earlier the same pilots would have used the same airfields and bumped shoulders in the same mess halls, while fighting a common enemy.
A couple of observations...
-Was that low-level photo recon pass of the bombed convoy REALLY necessary? Any pilot would have known instinctively that whoever's on the ground will consider it another attack and have their fingers already on every AA trigger, itching to retaliate.
-Fifteen Tempests escorted by Spitfires.... Doesn't really sound like "investigate", more like "revenge".
It was crazy alright. I agree that flying over a recently attacked column wasn't the best idea and it's no wonder situation developed the way it did. And the next sortie flown by the RAF was probably sent with the thought of an open war against Israel.
I knew about Swiss bf109 fighting German and few Slovak or Romania but not about Spitfire vs Spitfire. Wow. This is something!
Swiss Air Force intercepting German aircraft..... Not a bad idea for a video 😁
Also Yugoslav Bf-109Es fought German Bf-109Es over Belgrade in April 1941.
@@nrudnjanin Another good idea
Just discovered your channel, really awesome stuff!
Glad you liked it, stay as long as you like 😁
Nice little documentary
Thanks!
Weird how this DCS footage is marked War Thunder by UA-cam. I also recommend against running +9 boost at 2600rpm....that's gonna kill the engine.
I experiment a bit and I try not to mark the videos as 'gaming' (because essentially, they are not) But YT thinks it knows better 😁 Thanks for the advice, my skill as a warbird pilot is not what I'd like it to be.
Great story, thanks.
I sure agree, thank you for watching!
Muchas gracias por traer un combate aéreo de una guerra pocas veces vista en medios audiovisuales.
Thank you for watching and appreciating it!
Nice. I love when an older tech has the edge...
I agree, it is cool when an older plane wins.
I read of a WW2 US ace who was flying for Israel in 1948 and using a Mustang he shot down an RAF spitfire (Griffin engined). Apparently the RAF then sent two Tempests to investigate, but they didn't find either aircraft.
As far as I can find, Israeli Mustangs claimed one British Mosquito and three Egyptian MC.205s. This sounds like the story depicted in this video but with some facts changed.
@@showtime112
You may be right. 👍
Like the hundred hour war were corsair fought corsair. Or the continuation war were hurricane fought hurricane.
Love the editing! 🙌
Thanks Showtime.
Thank you for watching and commenting!
Another excellent video!
Thanks for the feedback!
Not v. good that particular RAF flight, were they, either that or they were - not thinking they had a war on personally - caught 1/2 asleep. Another good presentation, thx.
I appreciate your comment!
This is interesting, thank you for covering this. Also, what were the Spitfire variants? Because, they're too many Spitfires to tell the difference.
Thanks! You mean the Spitfires used here? Basically, two variants were used. Mk IX was used by Egypt and Israel. Some Israeli Spitfires were clipped wing models. The British used Mk XVIII which is a late, Griffon powered model, faster than the Mk IX.
@@showtime112 ooh. Interesting.
Woaw... Great story telling ! Showtime 112 you are the Mark Felton of DSC!!
Wow, thanks! I often watch Mark's videos and that is a big compliment.
I did not realize that the British were involved in the Israeli War for Independence, let alone that they lost fighter aircraft in combat.
Oh yes, they were involved. And those were not the only losses.
Robert Gandt's chapter on this conflict is well written: He points out that one of the volunteer IAF pilot's defended his decision to attack the British in this battle:
"What do you mean.. Whaddyamean they were British... either you have air supremacy or you don't". [From "Angels in the Sky" by Robert Gandt]
If you see your troops on the ground attacked, with vehicles on fire, some airplanes flying over them and even fired upon from the ground, it would be hard to see that those are not the same guys who performed the attack.
Operation Peochar by pakistan army aviation could be a good video idea
One of the largest heli borne ops ever
A Mi17 was shot down and a cobra damaged beyond repair
Thanks for the suggestion. I will try to research it and see if it is possible to do.
"Investigate,". But they had the whole nine yards.
Rather recklessly, as it turned out.
Damn it, this event was so early the Egyptian flag was still the old green with crescent and stars...
They seem to change insignia every couple of years 😁
I don't know if you guys know that Paul Reuben's (Pee Wee Herman) father was very involved in these early days of Isreal's air force. I guess they both were good at handling a joystick.
Très intéressant.
I'm glad you think so, thanks!
You should do a video when a Swiss Me109 fighter shot down a German Me 109 (I think it was either that or an American P51, don't remember clearly) when it drifted into Switzerland's airspace during WW2.
Also during the Vietnam War a US Bell UH-1 Huey shot down an NVA An-2, check it out
The Swiss shot down a significant number of both German and Allied aircraft. I hope to cover some of that someday. I just need to find a detailed source. And see if there are any Swiss skins for the Bf109 available.
The Huey was an Air America chopper in northern Laos. The Huey's crew chief shot the An-2 down with an automatic weapon.
Thanks for another informative history lesson 😉do you know if any ex Luftwaffe pilots flew for the arab nations ? 🙃
To be honest, I can't remember hearing of any specific case.
You can read Robert Gandt's book about the birth of the IDF. Great read indeed.
They seem to love fighting everyone, even their allies.
Are you unaware that the British were allied with the Egyptians at the time and threatening to attack Israeli forces operating in the Sinai, or are you motivated by some ugly instinct?
Risky take of yours to speak about this. Speacially when a certain group of people is so defensive now a days (I wonder why). Still good video men...
Thanks! Well, I sometimes touch some sensitive subjects but despite this, the focus is always on aviation, not politics.
Thanks for the video. It is of note that pre ReIndependence of Israel in 1948, all people in The Land of Israel, Judean, Arab and other had documents from the occupying English authorities under the so called palestine Mandate. Hence, everyone was called a Palestinian, my mother included. The word is a misnomer from the name Philistine, Plishtim in Hebrew, meaning invaders.
So called palestine? u are so brainwashed it’s unbelievable. U believe palestine were invaders?😂😂the irony is unbelievable😂 israel is a fake country based on apartheid and lies. Wouldve never became a thing without england
Isreali 109's were also shooting down Eygptian spitfires in this war.
There are a couple of claims. I will probably give some attention to that in the future.
Is that a bus in the Israeli column?
Tim McElhaw remembers seeing two buses. We don't have the 1940's vintage in the game but I placed a more modern one in the back.
I find it odd that Israel used Bf 109's in their air force for a while .
They were technically not called that but I agree, it is strange indeed.
Very odd indeed. While they had bomber engines and weren't very good they were all the Israelis could buy because of the embargo. Only Czechoslovakia was willing to sell armament to them.
Nice video.
Thanks for the comment!
מצוין! Subscribed
Thank you very much!
So the mark 19 was less of a dogfighter
I thought at one point the Israelis were actually of all things using FW 190s and Messerschmitt bf109s, particularly in fighting Egypt who was using Supermarine Spitfires. Kind of turns the tables considering what the Nazis were but I guess practicality does matter
A classical Anglo-Saxon knockout
Excellent presentation of history! Well done! Love this channel. 🎩♠️🎱🇺🇲🏁🇺🇦🌻🔱💮🌸🌼👊🏴☠️🏹
It's good to see you still like the content!
@@showtime112 Always
Use IL-2 for the next reenactment if you can. I don’t know if IL-2 has a desert map
IL-2 Great Battles doesn't have a desert map. There's Il-2 Desert Wings which is based on an older version but I don't own it and it doesn't look as giid as DCS. Il use those two sims depending on the case.
Gotta love a video of Royal Egyptian Air Force Spitfires-in their absolutely gorgeous camouflage and markings-bombing and strafing a Zionist military column.
Would love to see more prop plane stuff.
There will be more, I can tell you that much.
Israel didn't really 'declare Independence' surely. It was reformed by UN resolution on expiry of the British Mandate.
🎥 = 👍
Thanks!
I wonder how many Egyptian Spit fires remain
Today? I'm not sure if any survived.
Before this clash there was another Spitfire on Spitfire clash between Egyptian and RAF Spitfires over Ramat David airfield in northern Israel. The Egyptians had not realised that after the British most left, a few remained behind to cover the withdrawl, so attacked them, thinking they were Israeli. Again the British suffered the loss of a few Spitfires, for no losses on the other side.
BTW, it is rather offensive to call the Jews 'Settlers'. Many had been there for hundreds of years since their return, whilst some had never left, and had been there since Biblical times.
This story will be covered too. But Egyptians lost five Spitfires in the attack, four of them shot down by the pilots of 208 Squadron.
As for Jews in Palestine, a certain number had lived there since the biblical times but most had really come quite recently relative to that time. Especially after WWII.
The entire authorative (accurate) history of ancient Israel of Antiquity, though its torturous rebirth in 1948 (+ the prelude of extended violence 😳 prior to 1948), and continuing today in Oct 2022, is extremely fascinating, exciting, so informative, and relevant to contemporary issues.
I strongly recommend studying it for better understanding the broader context of todays societal chaos.
Never a dull moment there, for sure.
I find it so strange that the Israelis and the English were at war...
I would like to know more.
What does our tora and bibles say about this conduct?
The 'war' only lasted for one day and then they de-escalated it.
The British had already threatened to attack Israeli forces it saw as endangering their hold on the Suez Canal and vis-avis a mutual defense treaty that had been signed with the Egyptian King. They were already sharing intelligence gained from reconnaissance flights with the Egyptians at the very least. The Israeli's assumed that the RAF was making good on that threat. The British were acting like a colonial master and had at the time had not recognized Israel's right to exist. You can read about the parliamentary debate on the incident here, but to summarize: Winston Churchill who was in opposition to the UK's official refusal at the time [Early 1949] to recognize the new Jewish State: "Whether the right hon. Gentleman likes it or not, and whether we like it or not, the coming into being of a Jewish State in Palestine is an event in world history to be viewed in the perspective, not of a generation or a century, but in the perspective of a thousand, two thousand or even three thousand years. That is a standard of temporal values or time values which seems very much out of accord with the perpetual click-clack of our rapidly-changing moods and of the age in which we live." hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1949-01-26/debates/251e0075-50f2-48f0-8d03-45365384cffe/MiddleEast
Dang!
11:33: he shot down a pilot bailing out? What a barbarian and war criminal! Even Soviet and Nazi pilots did this to their defeated enemies!!
Sorry, surely they didn´t 🤭
Nope, he first shot him down and then the British pilot bailed out. But a comment helps with the algorithm 😁
82ND AIRBORNE
Supermarine Spitfire!! YEEEHAW!!
82ND AIRBORNE
The wingtips of the Spitfire's we're shortened to increase maneuverability... YEEEEEHAW!!
Yup. Downside is that the aircraft doesn't look like a true Spitfire 😉
@@showtime112
82ND AIRBORNE
Sacrificing Beauty to increase Lethality is a good trade...keep'em coming Amigo!!
Did the S-199s get any kills?
There are seven claims, not sure if all were confirmed.
The pilots bailing out was cool
The animation of 'manual' bail out is done relatively well in DCS.
finally a unquestioned Spitfire victory!!
A couple of them, in fact 😁
Waiting for the next israeli air force and raf!
You mean the Tempest shootdown? Currently, it's a bit hard to do. We don't have the Tempest in DCS. We have it it IL-2 but there's no desert terrain there.
RAF intelligence was cooperating with Egypt and whether these [low-level] reconnaissance flights crossed into Israeli air space : "[MP] Mr. S. Silverman: May I ask two questions? The first is: In view of the precautions taken to avoid any incident by warning the Egyptian Government that these planes were to go, can my right hon. and learned Friend say why similar precautions were not taken by warning the Israeli Government that these planes were going, and the purpose of the flight? The second question is: Since under the Anglo-Egyptian Treaty we are entitled to fly planes outside the Canal Zone only on training flights unless the Treaty has been invoked, and since this was not a training flight, was not the flight of these planes a breach of the Anglo-Egyptian Treaty?" [Answer from the Secretary of State for Air, Mr. Henderson]: "..Apparently the Egyptian Government do not take this view that there has been a breach, first of all because they have been well aware of the fact that these reconnaissances were taking place, and, in fact, as I said in my statement, they participated in the first one on 30th December [1948]. [MP]Mr. Boothby: May we take it that whoever else gave instructions for these reconnaissance flights over a battle area, they were not authorised by the right hon. and learned Gentleman in his capacity as Secretary of State for Air [Henderson]?
§Mr. Henderson I certainly am not going to shirk my share of any responsibility. I thought I had made it clear to the House that I had, in consultation with other Ministers, or after consultation with other Ministers, sanctioned in principle the carrying out of these tactical reconnaissances.
§Mr. Thomas Reid In view of one of my right hon. and learned Friend's previous statements, that our planes did not cross the Egyptian frontier, would he say if our pilots have made statements asserting that they had flown over the Egyptian frontier into Palestine?
§Mr. Henderson Yes, Sir. There is a conflict of statements between Pilot-Officer Cooper, on the one hand, and Pilot-Officer Close, on the other hand, that can be determined only as and when we have the court of inquiry...." [elsewhere here they outright admit high-level flights like the RAF Mosquito the Israeli's had shot down earlier (11/20/1948) in the war that they had named the "Shufti Kite" was violating Israeli airspace with impunity and this definition/distinction they were was causing much confusion to the British MK's until it was disclosed.] api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1949/jan/19/middle-east-raf-reconnaissance-flights
Thanks for this elaborate comment. It makes certain things about the British involvement clearer.
Israel is truly our greatest ally
Who’s greatest ally? And why?
Sounds like sarcasm to me 😁
Smells like sarcasm 😏👍
@@AlmirTaranis must be sarcasm
HEY, COOL IT WITH THE ANTISEMITIC REMARKS!
I winder who would win if they fought now ?
Israel is a welfare state. They could not even survive on their own! This is their nature. They attack their so called friends! They better hope that Great Britan and the U.S. never wakeup!
It depends on a situation. If RAF boys were again surprised, they would likely lose. Also, none of the four were WWII veterans while the two Israeli pilots were. Even today, Israeli pilots are more likely to be experienced.
I think it depends on if they were expecting to be attacked.
@@imperialinquisition6006 yes thats i meant in a head to head war
@@showtime112 yes, but many of them are trained by British and American pilots. They actually send Israelis to the U.S. for flight school. Israel only has basic flight school. They have very limited special training forces in all areas of their military.
Showtime 112 the Jewish insurgency in Palestine 1 February 1944 - 14 May 1948 against the British mandate, the British view jewish has ungrateful, for their help establish the mandate for Jewish colonies in Palestine and helping the Jewish against the Arabs in the Arab revolt 1936-1939 and the Nazi and Fascist, the Jewish view the British blocking them with colonial with the White Paper act. That said the Israeli use B 17 bombers to bomb Cairo and the Egyptian use C 47 cargo planes to bomb Tel Aviv, air warfare was just in its infancy in the Middle East conflicts both side side was in the junk yards looking for surplus World War two equipment.
And for banning Jewish refugees from trying to flee the German murder factories. The British navy won some great victories during this time such as the Struma and the Exodus. GLORIOUS TIME
The IAF is badass frm day 1. Salute to the israelis
Now I understand it, now it dawned on me why Israel helped us so generously in the Malvinas War!
Long live Israel forever, and thanks again for so much help in 1982!
Alliances and loyalties can change quickly. Britain was all but formally allied with Arab nations in this conflict, including Egypt. But in 1956, it attacked Egypt and allied itself with Israel.
@@showtime112 WRONG and big mistake in the issue Argentina-Israel, theyt are our brothers for EVER... and 41 years after, they still heping us, try to get this simple fact... I am croatian like you (Rijeka, 23 May 1970, shortly after that,we had to escape to Argentina ), and your lies about Argentina are damaging the credibility of Croatia... by the way, Croatia owes 90 percent of its independence to Argentina, with the 4,646 tons of weapons, rifles, mortars, and 155mm howitzers that we sent to it in 1992-1993... I myself worked with the Argentine officers who supervised those arms shipments in Greek and Panamanian ships..... you should have a bit of honor, and make a video of how old Argentine planes sank NINE British ships bristling with last generation missiles...
@@luisangeli9208 What lies about Argentina? 90 percent?
@@showtime112 4,646 tons of weapons, rifles, mortars, and 155mm howitzers that we sent to it in 1992-1993... I myself worked with the Argentine officers who supervised those arms shipments in Greek and Panamanian ships..
That's what happens when you fly into a war zone. 😮
Zanima me tvoje mišljenje, zašto se jna gadila fox1 raketa do 80-ih godina, po nekoj logici trebali su ih nabaviti 20 godina ranije
Negdje sam pročitao da su neki od pilota išli u SSSR i da su probali ispaliti radarski vođenu raketu kratkog dometa sa 21-ice (RS-2U mislim). Ali nije im se svidjelo to što se cijelo vrijeme trebao držati radarski zahvat pa su onda preporučili da se ta vrsta raketa ni ne nabavlja. Drugih za MiG-21 nije ni bilo. Ne mogu se sjetiti točnog izvora ali mislim da je to razlog.
Should have been enough for a British deceleration of war on Israel.
It would have been a very foolish move.
@@showtime112 Not at that time, get them while they weak and before they become a menace to the region. (Government not people ) I am quarter Jewish myself.
They were all set to do exactly that, but the US told Britain TO STAY OUT
Oy Vey
The RAF was not at war with Israel, and not flying over Israeli territory. They never expected to be attacked by what was supposed to be a friendly state. The RAF aircraft were clearly marked and known to be in the area, the Israelis chose to attack anyway. This episode came very close to Britain going to war with Israel and soured relations for many years.
I beleive the RAF aircraft were not carrying ammunition as they were in a policing roll so the two pilots flying for the Israel side should have been credited with a murder and an attempted murder
@@peterbird1076 The RAF were patrolling the Canal Zone and the aircraft were not armed. The Israelis with ex-WW2 fighter aces in their ranks, ambushed them. The RAF planes were painted totally different from the Egyptian, and should have been recognized. Its like in 1967 when Israel attacked USS Liberty, a clearly marked American ship in International waters. It was repeatedly attacked killing 34 and wounding 121 of her crew.
@@billballbuster7186 Thanks for that I thought that to be the case.
@@billballbuster7186 My thoughts exactly.
I think RAF planes were armed. Otherwise, why would Cooper try to dogfight Goodlin? With his Mk XVIII he could have easily escaped. The Israeli pilots jumped to conclusions but again, seeing your friendly trucks on fire and a bunch of planes flying above them, who would have thought they had nothing to do with it? When the two pilots came back, their superiors were quite upset and worried about possible consequences.
😍
Vidim da u zadnje vrijeme redovno gledaš 😉
Prelepi spitfajeri, čudno je to kako su izraelci kupovali češke kopije me 109
Da, stvarno je ironično da je baš prvi borbeni avion Izraela upravo najpoznatiji lovac nacističke Njemačke (tj. njegova varijanta). Ali stvari nekad tako ispadnu.
Pročitaj negde o operaciji Velveta 1 i 2 - kako su Izraelci kupovali češke spitfajere mk. IX... i kako su neki od njih nosili jugoslovenske oznake...
@@nrudnjanin Podgorica im je bila stajalište na kojem su točili gorivo a tadašnja jugoslavenska vlast je inzistirala da nose jugoslavenske oznade pri preletu.
Israel for ever...
FREE PALESTINE 🇵🇸❤️ Evil will never prevail. Truth will always prosper.🇵🇸
.
צ'אד מוב🗿🗿🗿🗿
Did Israel ever apologize for attacking the British aircraft?
Of course not, thats like a slave owner apologizing to their slave 😂
@@user-pn3im5sm7k funny enough, they actually did.
And for no good reason really.
There was no war between Israel & the "Palestinians" in 1948 as the "Palestinians" were only created in 1964 in Cairo by Egypt's Nasser, his Egyptian born agent Yasser Arafat & the KGB. The war was between Israel & the surrounding Arab nations with very limited help from the grand Mufti's terror gangs. In the mid-1930's when starting the Arab Revolt against British in Mandatory Palestine the grand Mufti Mohammed Al Husseini rejected any notion of "Palestinian " citizenship for the Arabs & declared in an interview to a Damascus newspaper " We Arabs are all citizens of a Greater Syria " Under the terms of the 1920 San Remo agreement the British Mandate for Palestine ( which included the area what was to be illegally made into Trans-Jordan ) only provided for the creation of a Jewish state ( which the British to their everlasting shame failed to carry out ) & for the protection of the rights of other residents & minorities as existed under the Ottoman Empire - ie, the Arabs were regarded as "Subject People " & stateless nomads and not citizens .
For one thing, thank you for contributing additional info. And calling the Arabs who lived in the region under British mandate later split between them and the Jews 'Palestinians' might not be absolutely accurate but calling them Syrians or something else might be confusing. For example, Byzantines didn't call themselves that. They called themselves 'Romans' ,but if you say that 'Romans did this or that in 10th century AD', people might not understand what you mean.
@@showtime112 The "Palestinian" Grand Mufti Mohammed al Husseini from a wealthy Arab family in Jerusalem & their original leader was the one who defined them as Syrians because during Ottoman times the area that is today 4 separate states - Israel, Lebanon, Jordan & Syria where all part of the Ottoman Turkish province of Syria & ruled from Damascus. After starting the 1936 Arab Revolt in Mandatory Palestine against the British he resided in French controlled Syria & later with the help of the Vichy French moved to Berlin where he was Hitlers guest & advisor on Arab affairs and raised 3 Muslim SS divisions to fight for Germany in the Balkans & as concentration camp guards ( about 30K Muslims mostly from south eastern Europe joined the SS plus around 2K Arabs including Palestinians, Iraqis, Syrians & Egyptians ). in 1946 after WW2 now a convicted war criminal wanted by the British he returned to Syria to coordinate attacks on Jews in Palestine & placed his terror gangs under Syrian army control during the 1948 war( He died many years later in Damascus ) You will find details & photos of the Mufti & Hitler on Wiki
👍👍👍🇮🇱
Thanks for commenting!
we love palestine
🥰
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
Not a big fan of the Israelis.
Many are not but personal likes or dislikes are not the focus of these videos.