How Italian Fighters Fought Against Israel (Part 1) - Macchi C.205V in Egypt
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2024
- Macchi C.205V was the most advanced Italian WWII fighter. Two years after the end of the conflict, the Macchi company decided to relaunch the production. Egyptians came shopping for a fighter aircraft to use in its war against Israel and they eventually ordered 80 C.205s. Fifteen of them were delivered before the end of the first Arab-Israeli War and they were heavily involved in combat. Were the Egyptian pilots flying this Italian fighter able to match experienced WWII veterans on the Israeli side? Find out in this video.
Sources:
- Marco Mattioli - Macchi C.202/C.205V Units in Combat
amzn.to/3rnlBcy
- Robert Gandt - Angels in the Sky: How a Band of Volunteer Airmen Saved the New State of Israel
amzn.to/3roXb2g
- Shlomo Aloni - Israeli Air Force Operations in the 1948 War: Israeli Winter Offensive Operation Horev 22 December 1948-7 January 1949
amzn.to/3LzeHrg
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#militaryaviation #militaryaviationhistory #israeliairforce #italianfighter
The year in the first scene is supposed to be 1948, sorry about that . I blame the new editing software 😊
lol I'm sure most your viewers will instantly know it's a typo. Great vid🙂
Yeah it was the first thing we caught, great video as always!!!
@@Norfolkyakker Early viewers will. But some of later viewers might just assume that the author is extremely ignorant 😁
I did wonder.....
I'll admit, I rewinded it and thought "1943? Doesn't mean mean 1948?" Then I read this 😂
The Macchi C.205 was the most beautiful fighter of WW2.
You know what they say about Italian design :)
@@showtime112 I honestly don't know 🤣
it's a beauty ok... but it has nothing on the lines of the Spitfire
@@TheGrrrudy The Spitfires looks are overrated.
@@MPi-KM : The only ugly Spitfires are the ones with the huge Vokes sand filter below the nose, used in North Africa.
The three "Series 5" fighter - Fiat G.55, Macchi C.205 and Reggiane Re.2005 - in significant numbers would give a huge headache for the Allies. If I would be the designer, I would put a cannon in the propeller hub (Fiat G.55 had I think), and would delete the two useless Breda-SAFAT 12.7mm to save more weight. Three excellent Mauser MG151/20 would be more than enough to bring down anything from fighter to heavy bomber. These three Italian "stallions" are maybe the most underrated and unnoticed fighters of WWII IMHO.
Thanks for the elaborate comment! They were some pretty good designs, I hope to cover them and their role in WWII in some future videos.
The 12.7mm Breda-SAFAT heavy machine gun was the same calibre as the US .50 inch heavy machine gun. Unfortunately, it had a slightly slower rate of fire (much less when synchronised with the propeller) and fired a lighter projectile.
From a now archived website with a very detailed analysis of WW2 fighter guns and ammunition, the US .50 inch M2 machine gun had a destructive power of 60, and the Breda-SAFAT a destructive power of 36 (when both wing-mounted). Yet both guns weighed exactly the same at 29 kg.
So 2 x 12.7mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns mounted in the engine cowling had only half the destructive power of 2 x wing-mounted .50 inch M2 machine guns.
Overrated, complex, difficult to produce and expensive
Wow! I knew the Egyptians flew G-55s and MC-205s in that war, but I'd never seen a detailed description of the role of those aircraft in the fighting. Thanks!
Thank you! Unfortunately, even those details we know are rather scarce but it's better than nothing.
Showtime 112 is the best channel of its kind in youtube. Thank you for reenacting these unkown conflicts for most of us. In addition, ideas for modelling with these plane paint schemes are excellent. Thank you.
That is very flattering, thank you! I used to do some modelling years ago and I hope to do it again someday.
Now that the starting date is corrected, its an outstanding video that teaches about post WW2 conflicts and how the great war material was still in use by the new countries and how the legacy of great planes continued after 1945
Thanks a lot! It certainly was an interesting conflict, close enough to WWII that all the equipment used in it originated from it. Tanks from WWII were used in Arab-Israeli conflicts for much longer.
*How is it possible that this remarkable channel doesn't have 100k subscribers by now?* 🤔
It's a niche thing I guess. I generally don't focus on the 'big picture' (which most people care about) but instead on details. But thanks for the compliment :)
Che bella macchina 👌
Medo poliglot :)
@@showtime112 😂😂 anšante ...
Another remakable work of historical research. Good work Showtime👏
I'm happy to hear it, thanks!
I’m kinda glad doyale got his chance to claim the title of ace after coming so close in ww2
Yes. Some of those pilots probably volunteered because they were looking for more adventure and success.
Love it,saturday just got so much better.👍👍👍
Thanks for the feedback!
Another great video. 👍 Do you know it says October 1943 at the beginning, instead of 1948.
Thanks! Yes, my subconscious mind was playing some tricks with me and my new video editing software was notoriously slow with the text editing :)
Something about those Israeli Spitfires in desert camo with the Star of David that sets them apart. Thanks
Thank you for commenting! Yes, the Spits look pretty good like that.
I was completely unaware of this history. Thanks for the illuminating presentation.
Thank you for watching! I think that this entire 1948/49 conflict is quite fascinating.
Great cinematographics, I have to catch up with your content! Been somewhat buisy the last few weeks... 😉🙋🏼♂️👏🏻👏🏻🍻🍻
Thanks! If the weather near you is anything like over here, it's not a bad time for catching up on YT content 😁
@@showtime112 Exactly! And catching up with some old friends, too...
Merci pour vos vidéos toujours bien faites et très bien documentées sur ces événements souvent peux abordés 👍
Les italiens sont les maîtres du design, les C205 sont vraiment tres beaux!
Thank you for appreciating the content! You are right about Italian design :)
Excellent video for a meeting with an aircraft that we did not speak about a lot. But its was a good one. Unfortunatly the egyptian has not enough practise for the dogfight. The israeli people has engaged professional fighter pilots from the last war which used the same fighter plane that they had during the conflict. This fact gave them a big advantage against the egyptian.
Tout a fait, les Israëliens avait embauche des vétérans de la WW2, soit des aventuriers mercenaires ou bien de confession israëlite. Par pognon ou conviction. J'ai un peu d'info sur un bouquin... faut que je vérifie. Demain soir easyJet switzerland A320.. direction Montpellier.
Thank you for the comment! Airplanes such as C.205 deserve some attention. As for Israelis, they certainly demonstrated great resourcefulness. It's probably why they won.
"In 1937 the Egyptian Army Air Force was separated from the Army Command and became an independent branch named the Royal Egyptian Air Force (REAF). New stations were built in the Suez Canal Zone, and the Western Desert.
During 1938 the REAF received two squadrons (Nos 2 and 5) of Gloster Gladiator biplane fighters and No. 1 Squadron of Westland Lysander reconnaissance aircraft, Egypt was the last state to use the Lysander in action, during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.
Second World War
As the Egyptian border was threatened by an Italian and German invasion during the Second World War, the Royal Air Force established more airfields in Egypt. The Royal Egyptian Air Force was sometimes treated as a part of the Royal Air Force, at other times a strict policy of neutrality was followed as Egypt maintained its official neutrality until very late in the war. As a result, few additional aircraft were supplied by Britain, however the arm did receive its first modern fighters, Hawker Hurricanes and a small number of Curtiss P-40 Tomahawks. In the immediate post-war period, cheap war surplus aircraft, including a large number of Supermarine Spitfire Mk.IXs were acquired.
A 1946 order of battle for the Air Force can be found in Jane's Fighting Aircraft of World War II, listing Nos 1, 3, 4, 5, and 6 Squadrons at Almaza Air Base, and No. 2 Squadron at Edku."
Source: Wkipedia
@@timonsolus
Thank You, for your Historic explaination very interesting. In fact all the vents due to the strategic presence of the Suez canal.
Again, a look at a little known piece of history. Well researched and staged.
Thank you.
Thanks, I appreciate your positive comment!
Biggest respect to our Regia Aereonautica and their plans . They did great things with the limited means and resources available on those circumstances
Thanks for commenting!
Great content as always - I am always looking forward to the next installment 👍🏼
Thank you very much for your positive comment!
Fascinating stuff. Thank you.
Thank you very much for the positive comment!
Great video! I think the Italians had a flair for design. Not for tanks but planes, cars, motorcycles, firearms and architecture. It's always a mistake to underestimate your enemy. I think in every culture there are people with the peripheral vision, eye-hand and feet coordination and killer instinct to be excellent fighter pilots.
Good points, thanks for the comment!
The Italian P-40 tank of which very few were made didn't look too bad.
the Italian tanks were designed for mountain warfare, and were usually quite OK when introduced, but their Industry was not able to deliver upgrades or generally necessary numbers. Armored cars and the "Saharriana" trucks are cool in my opinion, though.
I'm glad you think that way, because it's true. Not only Americans can be good fighter pilots 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Typical American comment.
@@PauloPereira-jj4jv it was a mistake the Germans and Japanese made. The supermen and the chosen race. Big mistake.
I love these small clips into little know air battles. What Spitfires were the Israelis using? Mk8?
Thanks a lot! Israeli Spitfires were Mk IX, I think most were clipped wing variants.
This is kinda random, but have you ever played strike fighters 2? I thought I'd be a cool game for you to recreate battles in and make videos with.
I actually haven't. It seems a bit dated and you can achieve most of that in WT. But thanks for the suggestion.
Kick ass..........
Thanks for the comment!
Nice video 👍
Thanks a lot!
Excellent vid. IMHO FIAT G. 55 was even better than the Macchi at higher altitudes at least.
Thank you! The G.55 was pretty good. I don't have much info about its use by Egyptians but I suppose there are a few good stories to tell about how it fought in WWII.
Great video presentation on the Arab- Israeli conflict with propellor aircraft. Job well done Showtime 112! Excellence at its best! ♠️🎩🎱🎯🇺🇲🏁🇺🇦🔱🌻🏵️💮🌸🌼🏴☠️🏹
I'm so happy to see you are still inspired to make an original comment each time!
I love the FIAT/Macchi powered by Daimler-Benz/ Alfa Roméo Monsone engine. I knew about Spitfires and Avia S-199 but I didn"t know Egypt bought Italian fighters.
Thanks for the video 😊👍
Thanks for the comment! There's part two coming out in a couple of weeks.
Based italian planes
Nice Video, very informative for me, as I did not really know that much about the air forces in the 1948 conflict.
Thank you for the feedback! That conflict is a bit obscure compared to later Arab-Israeli wars such as 1967 or 1973. I find it quite fascinating.
Whoa! I NEVER knew that Egypt used to operate Italian fighter aircraft! I learn something new every time I watch your videos.
There's so much of that, I'm often surprised by things I discover. That's what motivates me to go on.
Very nice video, I have read a ton of history books, so I know a lot about world war 2, a little about world war 1, a little about the Korean war, a lot about VIetnam, and the Israeli Arab wars (1967-1982) but this is a time period I have almost no knowlage about, so I found this video very interesting! Looking forward to part 2!!!
I think that conflict deserves to be known better. Thanks for the comment!
Extraordinario, como siempre. Excelente ambientación y muy buena narración.
Thank you very much for your feedback!
Thanks for this video, I never knew certain WW2 Italian aircrafts was used in the Middle East.
Thank you for sharing! That is definitely an obscure war, a sort of a WWII extension in terms of equipment and even participating pilots.
@@showtime112 yeah.
Cool re-enactment, one air conflict that is very little known is the battle of Australia over Darwin 1942, Spitfires Vs Zeros where the Spitfires actually came off worse in most engagements.
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion, it's actually a pretty interesting and probably a bit overlooked element of WWII.
Great job. Comment for algorithm.
Thanks, I appreciate it!
Was the C205 really the ultimate Italian fighter during WW2? What about the G55 and Re 2005?
The Re 2005 is the best but built in very little pieces
Those designs were comparable, I didn't suggest that C.205 was necessarily the best in everything. Italians usually had a couple of similar designs designed at about the same time.
Ah gotcha, yeah must have just misinterpreted what you said. Love the content! @@showtime112
All three of them were very good, and quite similar in their capabilities.
Interesting unknow story!
Thank you for commenting!
Macchi planes spot the two Spitfires: _give us a break, not _*_them_*_ again._
:)
The Italians were never afraid of Spitfires
October 1943? Surely you mean October 1948?
Yes. It's a typo which my brain somehow didn't register. Probably because an Italian fighter flying over desert makes perfect sense in 1943 😁
I got to admit I saw your correction in the comments - after I watched the video! But I'm looking forward to seeing part 2!@@showtime112
82ND AIRBORNE
No Reruns today...
Yeah, premiere is always better!
The Italian planes look like a cross between a Hurricane and a Russian Yak with the cockpit that far back.
Those Israelis, pretty stingy with bullets, lol.
The macc velltro was a nexcellentplane the d.b power plant trans formeditsperformamcemaking itbetter or on par withthe spit mk.9 othep.51😮
McElroy was a double ace who's kills were all German fighters, he had both a superior aircraft and his flying/fighting skills were way above his opponents skill grade.
Spits were not superior to Italian Serie 5 fighters.
They had better fire power and these were late model 1944/45 era Spits, Those Italian planes were 1943 designs at best with maybe a late add on German engine@@danhubert-hx4ss
Egyptian aircraft were pretty comparable to those flown by Israelis but experience that the pilots on Israeli side had sure wasn't. Thanks for another comment.
I believe the pilots ability made the difference
That seems to be the main reason. Egypt had Spitfires and two comparable Italian types that were a match for Israeli fighters.
👍
Thanks Chups!
Not 1943.
Yup :)
You are hazy about the time periods you discuss. One is clearly before the end of WW2, but we don't know the years and some are post WW2. It would help a lot to have the year of introduction of weapons systems. And I think the US air force was little used against the Italians.
The older types which preceded the C.205 are mentioned just to give some background but I'll try to take your suggestion in mind.
Is this WT footage? Doesn't look like IL-2.
It is War Thunder.
@@showtime112 Looks way better than I remember. Did they upgrade the graphics or my memory is just bad?
@@hankczinaski915 They are constantly upgrading it but it looks a lot better when you activate cinematic cameras in replay than when you play it with all those labels and arcade external views.
More great history that is rarely given any attention in the West. Keep going Showtime!
Thanks a lot, I sure intend to continue!
Go Egypt🌺🌺🌺
Dear friend, i have few info about these dogfights. I remember confusion between Fiat or Macchi. Many ww2 vétérans fought with IAF, by ...money or religion.
Will Check on my Book, mid week. And by the way....F4J "showtime 112"
What Mark of Spitfire were the Israelis flying?
They were Mk IXs
Damn,Israel's been making a progress during WW2😁
Ok, just a tip to help you with these less familiar arabic names... see Al is an indication for the next word to be known, like... Medina for example means City, Al Medina means THE City, like the city we were talking about andwe are both referring to... now Abd means Servant, and in arabic post islamic tradition the name of that sort consists of Abd Al Name... the name is often one of the many names assigned to many aspects of allah, so the name for example Abd Al Karim means the servant of the generous allah... the Al is to make sure you don't mistake this service toward anyone else than allah, he serves the generous allah, not some random generous arab dude who happened to also be named Karim in honor of generosity of allah who gifted the boy to their parents 😅 no joking, that's how it works,
Now if you want to read it... arabd are all about flow of the words, like obsessed with it, have you heard them read Qoran like a song? It is not a song, but it is maxed out on flow and rhyme, 1500 years ago desert style rapping was a serious deal to Arabs, and they took much pride in it, and in the perfecting of the flow, sometimesthe sounds shift or get added, or removed... soooooo
Long story short, to keep the flow going, don't struggle with Abd-Al-Wahhab, read it Abdulwah'hab in one go... that's how they themselves go about it 👍
Good luck bruh, amazing work just as you always do. See you on the next one. 😇
Thank you very much for this insight! I have to say that like most people in Europe or West generally, I'm only superficially familiar with the Arabic world. I'll try to remember that bit about the flow of name. Usually, I have to stop a bit and read it slowly or otherwise it might turn out completely wrong. A couple of minutes of practice might do the trick :)
@@showtime112😅 oh it IS hard, i was thought at school about it for years and I never managed anything better than a C, and l'm Iranian, Arabic is hardly two steps out of my way and yet even i struggled much with it, it's not the easiest i can tell you...
@@sohrabroozbahani4700 I thought your name sounded Iranian and not Arab. And an Arab would probably not like the video very much as they always insist that I should be showing their numerous victories 😁
Israeli air force was built on Mercenaries, the Egyptian should have hire German and Italian pilots in the 1948 war, the Israeli did have leg up started, they have talents within the Israeli army with experience in World war two with the Jewish Brigade and pilots, funny how Egyptian were netrual till the last days, they never got the experience need.
Well, there was the Arab Legion commanded by Glubb Pascha. And they were badass. Agreed that Arabs should have gone on a hiring spree for experienced pilots.
I feel sorry for the Egyptians.
Well, when you decide to go to a war, you better be prepared for it.
14:04 Sure, maybe the Egyptians didn't use foreigners but Syria on the other hand... :)
Oh Syrians definitely did. Probably not enough of them and they had practically no proper combat aircraft so they couldn't make an impact.
@@showtime112 Well a certain compatriot of yours reportedly dropped bombs from a Syrian Harvard/Texan onto Israeli targets on 14 July 1948... ;) "A History of the Syrian Air Force 1947-1967" by Noam Hartoch has the details.
@@SelfRaisingWheat I wasn't familiar with this book but it seems like a very interesting read. I've put it high on my list, thanks!
Once again the British aircraft were superior, along with the British trained pilots.
A good number of pilots flying for Israel were British trained but some were flying in the USAAF or USN during WWII.
0,20 for your info there was no Isreal at the second war, therefore there was no experienced Israelis veterans in that time! 😉
Nitpicking are we? There were experienced Jewish pilots in Allied air forces.
@@danhubert-hx4ss when you title the Isreal, when there is no Isreal exsist, then you should expect that someone going to correct your titel!
Sure thing, nitpicking is a popular pastime.@@aryanpers7726
For your info, text says 'experienced WWII veterans on Israeli side'.
Your correction is incorrect. But that is to be expected from someone with such an arrogant attitude. It always hides poor knowledge/superficiality and so on.
AT LEAST EGYPTIANS HAD BALLS TO FIGHT BRITS,CANADIAN [NOT ISRAELIS] PILOTS
Most of these Brits, Canadians and others were ethnic Jews.
Actually, two of the pilots in the Israeli fighter squadron were locally born Jews. Many other were Jews too but born in USA, South Africa, Canada etc.
FIATS...LOL... That wont end up well for those..
The C202 did not use German engine but the Alfa Romeo RA 1000 RC.41 (a great Italian engine). And it’s not true that he had a lacked firepower. The C202 was one of the best fighters of ww2 (along with C205, Re2005 and G55). Get informed before saying nonsense
Well, your 'great Italian engine' was nothing but a license produced German Daimler Benz DB 601. As for firepower, two 12,7mm and two 7,7 mm machine guns was DEFINITELY too little by 1943. So yes, somebody is not well informed and somebody is saying nonsense. Btw, if you are mentally challenged, I apologize for my tone.
@@showtime112 The Alfa Romeo RA 1000 RC.41 engine was not a license from Deimer. Fiat RA.1050 RC.58I Tifone F was a license-built engine of the Daimler-Benz DB 605, but despite this the Fiat engine was much better than the Deimer engine (as was the Alfa Romeo engine too). In fact, the Germans considered the G55 the best ww2 fighter. The G55 together with the C205 and the Re2005 were the best fighters of ww2. And then the Americans also created the Packard V-1650 engine (mounted in aircraft such as the P51) under license from the English Rolls-Royce Merlin engine. So I don't see what's wrong with building engines under license. But you are probably the classic incompetent who considers Italian engineering mediocre, while German engineering is the best. When in reality it's the opposite. Then the C202 entered service in 1941 and only the Spitfire (the best Allied fighter) was slightly superior to it. And the firepower of the C202 was much better than the Bf 109. Study the history before making useless videos
@@showtime112 What, you don’t talk anymore? Since you don’t have the competence, avoid talking about Italy. Because you proved you didn’t know the ww2 vehicles
@@giudicedredd9195 Never argue with an idiot. First, he drags you down to his level and then he beats you with experience 😁
@@showtime112 From your answer you proved you don’t have the competence
👍
Hvala!