It’s so weird to me how people think the guy who beat the entire hidden leaf solo would lose to someone like itachi. Y’all really think itachi could do something better or equivalent to that?
@@ppharaoh5421 no they weren’t. They would have taken over already. I’m not sure the coup would have even been successful. Itachi would no diff the leaf? That’s a tough argument to make. His skill set is best one on one. He would need the mangekyo more than he can probably handle
Yeah, Tendo, is again I think a KCM1 level threat. I think it would be rather awkward that other akatsuki members such as Kisame can be reached to that speed and Pain is some ‘sub-sage mode’ Naruto level opponent when that’s not with Pain’s intricate monster narrative.
@@Virhtue Kisame reached KCM1 level by absorbing Bee's chakra, he wasn't on that tier until after the Nagato and Itachi died. Pain isn't KCM1 level, he's in-between Sage Naruto and 6 Tails Naruto.
Why do people use Naruto casually moving with Itachi while actively not tryna fight and talk to Itachi as a feat for Itachi. Kabuto was trying to capture Naruto this does not make him Kcm speed . Chibabu tensei ends the fight Itachi can’t break out of it.Gedo statue into soul dragon ends the fight.Pain is immune to all his genjutsu unless all of them get hit which is not happening. All of Itachi’s ninjutsu are getting absorbed and actually make pain stronger when they get absorbed. Chakra rods disrupt chakra so if Itachi gets tagged he won’t be able to use his abilities to the extent that he would need. In terms of stamina lol, he’s fighting an Uzumaki who can Solo a village ,fight Sage Naruto with prep time and win and then bring back thousands of humans back to life and still have some life energy to have a conversation with Naruto.People always wanna give Itachi all the hypotheticals for his “Prime” when in vs battles but always downplay what a hypothetical “prime” pain would look like. A hypothetical “prime” pain would be Red haired Nagato that can move with all 6 paths of pain fighting along side him like what Obito had. With Nagato individually being above all of the paths and having all the abilities. Nagato being the guy who could No diff Bee and KCM Naruto. Imagine if Nagato would’ve absorbed the 9 tails chakra like he did Bee ……Yeah The Rinnegan is above the Sharigan with Nagato to this day being the most competent and versatile Rinnegan user we’ve seen in the verse including six paths characters. So good luck to Itachi ina 1v1 …. Or 1v6 I guess or 1v7
u mean the fodder that konohamaru handled, and one punches killed them there are many ways to deal with the chibaku tensei, No chakra rods can pierce through a Susano, worst of all one with the yata mirror ,izanagi negates chibaku, it could still be sliced with a sword and its basically just stone.with one of his strongest long range ninjutsu he destroyed 33.3 percent and in the kabuki fight he produced 4, deidara could do thesame against the leaf, it simply depends on your jutsu
I'm sure Itachi's Susano is stronger and can destroy the Chibabu tensei of pain with a swing of his sword. Itachi is fast and smart enough to not get caught by the gedo statue or anything of that sort. Also, before the gedo statue can do anything, I'm sure Itachi would make it eat his amaterasu and burn it to crisp. How are you sure about that? Itachi's genjutsu is powerful and capable. There's a reason why he has tsukoyomi the stronger genjutsu in the verse, hence why they used infinite tsukoyomi. I'm sure Itachi could catch one if not all of them in a genjutsu of which they can't break out off. Even if it was only one pain at a time, his genjutsu might be hard or impossible to leave, leaving one of the pains eliminated. How you so sure he doesn't have a genjutsu where he can catch them all? He even control the dream realm. Itachi is intelligent and keen, I'm sure after pain absorbs his first ninjutsu attack Itachi would be aware of it and know not to use it. At least against the one path that can absorb ninjutsu, the others are still susceptible. True but that's only if Pain is fast and perceptive enough to catch Itachi with the chakra rods. What if Itachi pulls out his Susano to negate the chakra rods to begin with, I don't think they can affect the Susano or Yata mirror at that. Naruto won what do you mean and win? You must be watching the wrong show. Itachi can solo that whole village too and with a swing of his Susano's sword, I'm sure he could cause just as much or more damage than pain did to the village. His blade could also just cut through and seal the pains. If he gets to nagato with that blade it's over. Nobody's trying to downplay Pain, I know he is one of the strongest that there is in the Naruto verse in all aspects. However, y'all are the ones always hating and trying to make Itachi more fodder when he lives up to his reputation!
A lot of People have misconception in a lot of things...When pain says that after the jiraya fight He means-If jiraya knew the secret..He means that after killing the 3 paths he woudnt had let them layed there to be revived , if he knew he coudve take the bodies away ...2-That comment from obito shows that he doenst know pain true intentions or they aren't really on the same page , and shows that obito thinks he keeps pain in control , pain hold back against jiraya cuz it was on the rain village he couldnt go all out to not destroy anything neither did he had to ..That shows obito didn't knew pain so well or was that close..That is very implied that pain-nagato kept a close eye on obito such as konan.Pain and itachi are objectively above óbito, obito has one weapon an hax that his very difficult to understand and different...Itachi hax variety one hit kill hax intelligence. Pain -most Powerful hax outta the 3 and battle warfare IQ. Tell me 2 character that had more things going on at the same time while keeping a charade or a behind the curtain plan , there's no other than pain and itachi...All akatsuki jutsus are Simply allowed trough nagato and i mean all of them ...Mofo is basically dead , sharing chakra with 6 bodies, has a gedo mazo statue summoned just chillin on a cave with a seal that makes it indestructible ,protects the rain village ,and the rest of jutsus made by him for akatsuki..Itachi all the stuff about being a double agent...Is clear as water obito needed the 2 of them not the contrary..And you can implie it to ways Obito feared itachi so the way to deal with him was by mutual ageement or consenses on plans ideas -He couldnt manipulate him. Pain obito feared him but was able to manipulate him based the story consequnces and circumstances from the past but still not knowing to wich extent thats why the need from time to time to implie that hes above and as it is known nagato did had plans and studied to overtake him cuz he didnt trust obitos resolve or plans on the long run...
It's not that he couldn't, but since they were all there why not just do it together? After all, Itachi wanted to teach Naruto about teamwork and relying on others!
@@Juan_Uchihayou're making shit up there's no context that he was teaching Naruto anything about teamwork Naruto is already kcm1 he knows a lot about teamwork at the point he ask because he doesn't have strong arsenal in his pull to destroy the core of probably one of the most powerful jutsus in the series even when pain uses it.
@@see3deezz no I also believe itachi wanted to teach naruto about teamwork, itachi throws 3 instead of 4 susanoo ring attacks used against kabuto so he wasn t using his strongest attack in that instance to destroy chibacu tensei , his attack is contributing to 1/3 or 33% , his strongest attack will be 40% so attacking just twice 80% will be enough to neutralize chibacu tensei since 100% was enough to pulverize chibacu tensei completely so overkill and itachi can attack twice and time the attacks since he can time and calculate 8 flying kunai in the air and change their trajectory at the same time before he hit the ground in 0.1 sec and chibacu tensei s absorbtion is very slow and because is gravity works the best with big things like 9 tails not a small zero weight itachi, even if it gives him extra 5 seconds it will be more then enough I will argue he can throw more then 2 attacks in that timeframe +bonus is in character to itachi to spam attack😂Hitachi can alone destroy chibacu tensei very easily I may add
@@ciupaca9576 except he literally said use your strongest ninjutsu lmao theres also no feats or amps or data thats says he can destroy it on his own. Again oure just making shit up those percentages are added by the number of attacks but that head canon for you we don't know for sure especially since he used it once with the help of killer bee and Naruto how strong that attack was or if he could do it himself. I doubt a live Itachi can generate anything on the level of himself KCM Naruto and Killer bee who are arguably the strongest characters in the show at this point. I can see if he got help from like a Sakura or something but he got help from literally the strongest tailed beast. Nothing about teamwork was aid or needed especially since at this point Naruto has been on team missions for the whole series.
I find it ironic that Tobirama of all characters kinda counters his argument on Edo Itachi being weakend/suppressed as he states verbatim the edo summons are *close* to their full power.
@@ShadowFiend777 those are two different Edo Tensei entirely. Itachi is suppressed and weakened how can you even deny that, Itachi was incapable of using the maximum susanoo or didn’t it’s one or the other. Also both commands Itachi is put under (Kabuto’s and Koto) do not have him operate at full power
@@Virhtue Well for one, Kabuto surpassed Orochimaru in edo tensei and second I believe it's stated Orocimaru gained access to Kabutos memories (including his improved edo tensei) which is how he knew about white zetsu. The bottom line: all edo tensei are "close" to their original power.
@@Virhtue I see your point but at the same time why would itachi get bee and naruto to use tailed beast bombs, both stronger raw power attacks than any moves in itachi's arsenal, on the chibaku tensei center. There's no way Itachi can get past planetary devastation; it's kinda just an insta kill on him. At the same time, Pain would never start a match with such a move.
Itachi vs Pain 1. Itachi, Naruto & Bee Vs Nagato (controlled by Kabuto) There's a huge difference. Kabuto almost forgot about Chibaku. The real Nagato wouldn't have just stood there like a puppet. Nagato has sensory to spot Kabuto for Itachi to find. He'll easily spot Itachi nearby. Plus, Itachi had to remind Kabuto that Nagato had sensory. Itachi was finished when Nagato casted Chibaku (Planetary Devastation). The real Nagato wouldn't allow Itachi's Totsuka blade to reach the core too. 2. Naruto vs Pain = Pain (after Konoha destroyed) - Jiraiya's info - Prep time with 2 Sage clones - Needed help from Frog Sage to reverse summon Naruto's clones - Tsunade's slug advising Naruto, maybe healing too - Pain almost made Naruto lose hope when he pinned him down until Hinata SUPER triggered him. - Minato had to reseal for Naruto, and rebuild his confidence. - Naruto gained Sage mode after being saved by Minato. - Naruto fought drained Pain after destroying the whole damn village! - On top of all of this, Pain never attacked Naruto with the intention to kill. Naruto attacked purely to kill. Naruto would've been SUPER dead if it was truly 1 vs 1. They both were taught by Jiraiya, and came from the Uzumaki clan. Pain, "You and I are sibling disciples. As students of the same master, we ought to be able to understand one another." (A joke with truth) 3. Itachi Vs Pain = Pain Ultimately, it'll come down to who has more chakra, Nagato. Pain is too much of a powerhouse for Itachi to last. Itachi is finished once his Susano'o is gone, assuming he's nearly or is out of chakra. Think about how well Nagato was able to control the Six Paths simultaneously. Even Pain's puppet uses advanced technologies greater than ours, like lasers and homing missiles. Amaterasu will do absolutely nothing because it'll get absorbed or pulled off immediately! Not to mention, Amaterasu could get absorbed with a scroll, like how Jiraiya did after Itachi and Kisame ran away from Jiraiya's jutsu. I'm sure Jiraiya taught him about it. Raikage dodged Amaterasu against Sasuke, which means it's not as fast as Sasuke's Kirin (lightning). Gaara easily pulled out Madara out of his Susano'o. That means Itachi won't be perfectly guarded. Maybe Pain could pull him out because when he pulls, I don't think anything must enter Susano'o to grab Itachi, however, a push seems different. If Itachi's Totsuka blade can't reach the core of Pain's Chibaku, then he'll get trapped inside along with Susano'o. Susano'o won't be able to move. Visual genjutsu doesn't work on Rinnegan. (Proof): Naruto chapter 677 page 9 aka page 678. Infinite Tsukuyomi does not work on three things that were stated in the manga; Perfect Susano'o, Rinnegan and the reanimated (undead). Black Zetsu, "The light can't penetrate that Susano'o? His Rinnegan can deter even this jutsu?" This means not even the Infinite Tsukuyomi can work on Perfect Susano'o and Rinnegan. Also, Itachi's Mangekyo Sharingan is TWO LEVELS BEHIND Rinnegan, while the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan is one level behind. Rinnegan requires Uchiha and Senju blood to activate. It is extremely rare and powerful. Why would the author make Rinnegan so LEGENDARY? The story made it clear that it was more powerful than any eye, including Mangekyō Sharingan. All that legendary talk for what? The author, Masashi Kishimoto, stated that Pain is the strongest Akatsuki. "The strongest man in Akatsuki heads for Naruto." Some people try to curve this by stating the time when Itachi gave Naruto his power, but obviously, it was referring to Pain because he was FINALLY being revealed. The author wouldn't ruin the hype by stating, "Oh, I was referring to Itachi" because it would stop the exciting momentum. It wouldn't follow the flow. Here's another question. Why didn't Itachi use Tsukuyomi right after Nagato casted Chibaku (Planetary Devastation), nor at all? Itachi knew he had infinite chakra too. He could've disabled Nagato so easily with it. Itachi probably knew that it wouldn't have worked against Rinnegan. If he wasn't sure then he would've at least tested it out because it's better than risking death or being captured. Itachi used Amaterasu multiple times, but he wouldn't even use Tsukuyomi once? It's because he never used it that answers the question about Rinnegan able to block all visual genjutsu, including Tsukuyomi. Kakashi never put Rinnegan-Obito under genjutsu. Only one person can put the other person in genjutsu at a time, not both at a time. You can't have Obito put Kakashi in genjutsu WHILE Kakashi put Obito in genjutsu. It's one at a time. Obito was in CONTROL of Kakashi during that whole fight. It was all by HIS design to have Kakashi destroy his heart that Madara implanted. There are so many ways this fight can last long. Pain will keep reviving. Itachi will have a tough time catching him. Nagato, aka 7th Pain, can summon the Gedo Statue that's even bigger than Choji and his dad. Even they needed help. If used right, it can hurt a lot. Itachi's Yata Mirror is strong, but it doesn't cover everywhere. Susano'o can only handle so much against multiple attacks simultaneously. There are ways for Pain to grab Susanoo's arm that's holding the Totsuka blade, like his lizard's tongue or other animals biting it. Pain could even absorb away the Susano'o because Susano'o is chakra construct. Pain could use his Almighty Push hidden under the ground to blow away Susano'o while Itachi is being distracted fighting others. We all saw how much Itachi lost chakra each time he used his eye powers. Eventually, Itachi will deplete all his chakra. Pain will rip out Itachi's soul with one touch while the others attack (not all 6). Itachi can never waste his chakra against Pain. Nagato is from the Uzumaki clan, which carries the most chakra. If this fight drags, it'll come down to who has more chakra. Pain wins. (6 Pains) Itachi's two eyes versus 6 Pains + 7th Pain with All Powers. Izanagi will be useless against Chibaku because he'll just get pulled up again. It won't matter how long his Izanagi lasts. I doubt Izanagi and Izanami link all the Pains. Itachi might have to fight blind against the 7th Pain. And that's IF Itachi could figure out how to kill him without chakra. Either way, one touch is all Nagato will need to rip out Itachi's soul. Pull + Rip = dead. Or another Chibaku (Planetary Devastation) while hidden and ready to absorb powers. I understand Itachi is extremely intelligent and powerful, but Pain is just too much of a powerhouse for Itachi. Even ChatGPT stated that Pain would win (just for humor about ChatGPT, but it's true that ChatGPT stated that Pain would win).
Ure conveniently ignoring that black zetsu said itachi's susanoo is invincible. He never said that about pain or nagato, cuz he knew he was just a pawn that cant even use the eyes to their full potential. In reality pain's best chance is to run. Whatever he tries, the yata mirror will repel it. Push, pull, doesnt matter. Yata mirror repels all attacks. If it didnt, then his susanoo wouldnt be invincible, but we know for a fact that it is as it was mentioned.
you gotta understand that the reason nagato got hot with totsuka blade is because itachi destroyed the eyes of the rinnegan from the summons and that rebirth statue whatever its called and nagato is far stronger then pain
Its worth remembering that obito was posing as madara, and its unlikely nagato ever fought obito to know if he could beat him or not. It makes sense he would not test this 'madara'. Also we cant be sure itachi is responsible for 1/3 of countering the planetary devastation, and if he was we also dont know if making more beads makes the attack stronger or just divides its potency in more beads( also edo nagato is weaker than alive nagato). Also, calling the frog song "normal" sound genjutsu its just wrong, its stated to the the strongest type of genjutsu in the series and it likely around before the sage of six paths. And it makes no sense narratively for a MS genjutsu work flawlessly against a rinnegan that is supose to be an MS evolution. Anyway good video.
Firstly, the double page is paneled as such with Itachi destroying it. Due to this being the most likely assumption, due to akams razor you would typically dismiss the idea. Now potency being different does make sense generally; in Itachi’s case though, we know that more would inherently allude to more chakra due to the susanoo being a physical manifestation of chakra so more beads = more chakra. The Frog Song stuff is wrong, the third databook’s mini section on it doesn’t include the word type at all. Then for the rinnegan to MS that’s more conjectural than anything else
edo nagato was way stronger than alive nagato when he had the red hair idk why you even mentioned that it just hurt your case. nagato went from being completely immobile and crippled to being able to physically blitz and subdue kcm naruto and v2 bee due to the amount of chakra he absorbed
Yo! Bringing up that theory that new horizons made a video on, Nice. Overall, a fantastic video. But that smoke did get in the way of Nagito’s vision. But what you said about Itachi Being faster than him is super true, so it doesn’t change too much.
Narrative wise Itachi and pain are on about the same level. But Itachi is a one on one fighter so he would get overwhelmed by the six paths of pain. It would be a good fight but six VS one would be very overwhelming for Itachi because all his attacks are crazy good but also mostly hit one person at a time. I think Itachi vs nagato would be much closer. If Itachi gets to hit nagato with a one hit shot he is done for. Which makes the fight probably go to Itachi’s favor. I think six paths of pain vs Itachi would be 8/10 for pain and itachi vs nagato would be 7/10 for itachi
I’ve always thought itachi was implied to be stronger but a few years back pain being stronger was the general consensus. As I looked into it more I’ve felt that itachi had better arguments and many people downplay his strength severely saying things like he would lose to jiraiya (worst argument ever) or he’s below sannin or he lost to a pre ms Sasuke just things that make me feel like they haven’t even seen the shows. Or even arguments that can be substantiated and they just say because they heard people say it but have no idea why. I’m glad more people are starting to agree that itachi wins i lean itachi a little more than most believing it’s a mid -high diff while many people say it’s extreme diff. This take could get me in the itachi glazer tier but I believe itachi is the strongest in the akatsuki (during his lifetime) but that’s another topic
Also w for someone who actually gives itachi respect like the stamina thing and someone actually giving credit to itachi for fighting orochimaru whole FULLY 100% blind. His eyes as u said we’re whited out and he said “judging by the feel of it” just little things like this show you know what you’re talking about and actually put in effort to videos. This really is such a great channel with such high effort and reminds me of what I wanted to do to start a channel a few years back. Also have you considered the yata mirror as being Omni directional I was curious to your thoughts on that? My base being that it could deflect all attacks and it clearly expanded when orochimaru attacked it. It also could’ve not even been reactionary but an automatic response to an attack that plus the statements lead me to believe I think six made a video on it where he goes much more in depth
This video really is impressive doing research on eyes and even hypothesized Wgat illness itachi has and connected it to the rain scene for itachi giving it multiple meanings
So a few things here 17:00 The Itachi vs Obito section does make it seem like Obito thought fighting Itachi would be too troublesome/ not worth it. But those statements aren’t really conclusive that Obito would just up and lose to Itachi. 18:08 Road to Ninja starts out with Konoha 11 vs All of the Akatsuki (which are alive at the same time for whatever reason.) This movie is super noncanon. And even if it was, using it to suspect Itachi could Amateratsu Obito when this is the same Obito that can press FKS Sasuke (who has a better Amateratsu) is reaching too hard. And in the canon, Obito Kamuid Itachi’s amateratsu. 27:33 Itachi is not sick during his Reanimation. It’s not his cells that are forced onto the sacrifice during reanimation. Instead it’s his soul and chakra. I understand you think it’s the case because Itachi can use his sharingan and they all have their normal hair color, but it’s not. Chakra/souls in Naruto work weird and don’t require actual DNA to inherit traits. Look at DMS Kakashi getting his sharingan from Obito. I can safely say this is just properties of the jutsu. And Itachi is revived to resemble what he was like moments prior to his death. This is why Nagato has white hair when he gets revived. It wouldn’t make any sense for Itachi to be revived in the state he was in a week or 2 before his death lol. It’s safe to say he just didn’t have the illness.
its more consistent for itachi to be summoned from some unknown time before his death, otherwise madara wouldnt be young and hiruzen wouldnt be able to make several clones(even though his chakra is constantly refreshing, he still should have something similar to his alive self as a maximum chakra reserve and he could barely survive making 2 vs oro)
@@AidenB1010 Hiruzen’s chakra didn’t decrease or increase as Edo. He just had an old body when he was alive. Remember it’s physical and mental energy that makes chakra, so it makes sense for old age to effect his use of chakra. Also Old Madara had his body tweaked to become young before the Edo body for him was made.
@@TheLDARtist in the anime. not in the manga, he was ust getting tossed around and the whole fight was way shorter ps itachi would have stomped eight tails naruto, which was breaking out of his chibaku tensei and pain couldnt do anything
I've watched this video a few times and it makes me so happy to see more creators stop wanking pain to unreasonable degrees and scaling itachi properly
Just found your channel today, already watched a ton of your content. You're making some straight fire stuff my dude, keep up the good work and I'm excited to see your channel grow and improve even more. Just don't become toxic 😹 so many anime UA-camrs are toxic assholes and it makes watching their content nearly impossible if you're not a salt lord lol
i feel like we leaving out alot of context with itachi vs edo nagato for one he didnt blitz him its pretty clear he snuck him thats why he injured the summons eyes forest for a sneak attack logistically it also makes 0 sense second i think its wild to imply he could eal with the actual pain bodies vision the same way once again hes able to hide in that area the only reason he could do that iss because he was able to postion himself in a way the summons couldnt see him something he couldnt do if all the pains were just looking straight at him also he wasnt actively controlling the summons its incredibly unlikely the pains who could react to rasenshuriken cant react to kunai that they can see coming
Itachi was literally 21 when he died. Yall don’t understand how fresh he was on that world. Kisimito just had to make sasuke the cool talented character older brother to set up sasuke. Itachi himself should be easily defeatable kishimoto just writes the right ppl for itachi to fight agaisnt or jusr staight up make itachi stronger or weaker depending on plot.
I don't agree and here's my interpretation: 1. It was never implied or stated that Pain was fearful of Itachi or any other Akatsuki member, except Tobi. At best, Tobi projected his fear onto Pain. 2. The author may have clumsily misdirected us (or perchance was it on purpose) but it's clear that the statement 'The strongest man in Akatsuki pursues Naruto' is about Pain since the following chapter is called 'In pursuit of Itachi'. Too misleading otherwise. 3. About their Edo state, Nagato's mobility is highly affected. We don't know how fast he would've been if his legs were functioning normally. No surprise Bee could Lariat GH Nagato. 4. Therefore, Itachi “blitzing” Nagato isn't surprising. Moreover, Nagato was preoccupied by Killer Bee and Naruto. Let's also remember that Nagato was controlled by Kabuto and he sabotaged him by his will power to diminish his reaction speed. 5. Itachi rescuing Naruto and Bee isn't speed blitz at all. Itachi kinda came out of nowhere. It's more of a surprise blitz than a pure upfront speed blitz, which he didn't do to Nagato at any point of time. He always used Nagato being distracted by Naruto and Bee to hide from his perception and attack him by surprise. So in my opinion, it's almost like saying Konohamaru is faster than Jigokudō because he lands a Rasengan. 6. Itachi destroyed Nagato's attraction core but with Bee's and Naruto's best attacks. It's too speculative to think he could've destroyed the entire core by himself because he threw “only” three and not four Yasaka beads. 7. Tendō kept pace with 6 tails Naruto who's arguably above KCM1's speed. He was more pushed around by 6t Naruto's ferocity than his speed. I would argue that SM Naruto has a faster reaction speed than KCM1 that Pain was able to keep pace with comfortably. So personally, I think Pain (or at least only Tendō) and Alive/Edo Itachi aren't that far away from each other speed wise. 8. Hiruzen has his old properties, but he clearly doesn't have the same stamina or general speed as when he fought Orochimaru. If it was the case, he would be unable to keep pace with the battlefield's higher cast. Alive, he was almost struggling to keep pace with heavily nerfed Hashirama and Tobirama. So I don't think Itachi had his illness. Also, if it was the case, he would've just been incapable of moving as soon as he was reanimated. It doesn't bring you to your prime, but it does improve your general state, so possibly freezing to improving your health condition. It doesn't reform your mental state, though. Plus, if his disease affected him, he would've at least spit his guts out considering how many times he used his MS. The blood dripping from his eyes due to Amaterasu is nothing but a body reaction. It doesn't mean he is still sick. ¿? Since Yata Mirror protects from incoming attacks, doesn't Banshō Ten'in work? Since it's a withdrawing attack, maybe it could... I don't know, I just thought about that. Great video nonetheless!
Great video at first when there was topics like Itachi vs Pain I've always said Pain wins but after doing a deep analysis my opinion changed. However I do think that Edo Nagato is stronger than Edo itachi based on what Kabuto said About Nagato being his second strongest summon and breaking down the fight between the two.
He literally says "you clearly are different from the rest." Unless you really wanna use that as an argument go ahead but when you do you are saying that he's above Madara which people would disagree on which is commonsense.
You know what it’s actually really refreshing to see someone actually take all of the objective facts and line them out to make a logical debate and I genuinely agree with virtually every point you make and you actually make a very good point about tsukyomi going through the chakra link to nagato I never actually considered that (My only gripe is I think Itachi scales slightly higher than EMS Sasuke as his edo form is categorically weaker than his living form yet edo Itachi still outperformed sasuke by a BIG margin against kabuto) another point I would like to make about Itachi is Tsukyomi actually works on multiple beings at once, as in the Itachi shinden novel (this is cannon btw) Itachi used Tsukyomi on the aburame that poisoned shisui but instead of using it on him he used it on the millions on bugs inside of the aburame to lock him in place so if Itachi can Tsukyomi on millions of sentient beings (Albeit bugs being less complex) I reckon he could use it on say 5-6 people at once… food for thought? Either way you have a subscriber with me much better video that what some of the other naruto creators did keep it up man 👍🏻
no I also believe itachi wanted to teach naruto about teamwork, itachi throws 3 instead of 4 susanoo ring attacks used against kabuto so he wasn t using his strongest attack in that instance to destroy chibacu tensei , his attack is contributing to 1/3 or 33% , his strongest attack will be 40% so attacking just twice 80% will be enough to neutralize chibacu tensei since 100% was enough to pulverize chibacu tensei completely so overkill and itachi can attack twice and time the attacks since he can time and calculate 8 flying kunai in the air and change their trajectory at the same time before he hit the ground in 0.1 sec and chibacu tensei s absorbtion is very slow and because is gravity works the best with big things like 9 tails not a small zero weight itachi, even if it gives him extra 5 seconds it will be more then enough I will argue he can throw more then 2 attacks in that timeframe +bonus is in character to itachi to spam attack😂Hitachi can alone destroy chibacu tensei very easily I may add
Itachi didn’t even blitz the fastest version of nagato, nagato wasn’t using the asura path rocket boosters, itachi can’t see chameleon so that is also a good win con. I feel you downplayed chibaku Tensei because pain states he’d make it bigger once he sees the 8tails granted when sage Naruto falls out he’s lets it dissapate but you could chalk it down to not wanting to kill Naruto. We no pain sandbagged that whole fight. The ororchimaru feat isn’t even that impressive for two reasons. One we already know that base to base itachi is stronger that orochimaru as well as the orochimaru that was brought back wasn’t even at full power he should’ve been sick just as he was vs sasuke so these are both 2 sick fighters in their higher forms. Secondly itachi blitzing a near fearless hydra has no merit. We know if pain gets tagged with tblade he should be able to summon/ reverse summon pains out of it because we see oro get summoned from curse mark even tho he was sealed. Itachi has no answer for all the summons out all at once and this is how pain fights common refutal is Amaterasu but if he uses 2-3 of those it should greatly expend his chakra. Amaterasu being itachis strongest jutsu doesn’t even make sense because that’s not what he used vs nagato. Also even if you want to grant itachi speed advantage all the summons plus 6 eyes and king of hell should make the blitz difference. You failed to mention what happens if itachi gets smoked by a rod it’s literally gg if he gets touched with 1. Good video nun the less😏
Yeah his videos be aight, he just be a lil bias sometimes and it shows. You stated things perfectly, Itachi is getting overwhelmed by all summons/paths of pain. Pain isn’t just going to sit there and let Itachi do his thing. We’ve never seen Pain take an opportunity seriously. He fought the leaf only for intel and he only wanted to capture Naruto. So he was holding back and heavily fatigued once Naruto arrived. So all his paths had to protect Deva path in formation. If Pain starts the fight off bloodlusted, it’s going to be similar to how Nagato cooked Bee & Naruto. Once all the paths start using their abilities at the same time, Itachi won’t have enough chakra or time to counter all Pains jutsu.
Can you show an instance where rinneagan absorption gives chakra above the absorber chakra reserves. All we see is his hair go back to red meaning his life force is rejuvenated or whatever. We see him absorb a rasengan from jiraiya and he doesn’t seem to just one shot blitz him after like he did bee and Naruto??
@@brxyn3937 don’t try to debate me😭 that’s a blatant strawman, my argument alone never entailed that presupposition. Also quantity doesn’t mean > we also know that chakra has certain properties and tailed beast chakra is implied to be the most potent from Bee and Kisame. You also have to realize at best you get Nagato is at his peak and Itachi is suppressed and holding back😭
funny… I think one average push from Pain and Itachi is lying on the ground with a broken neck. Don’t forget Itachi can’t fly. Everyone forgets that Itachi just human. For Pain to kill him is not a big difference like he launched Hinata into the sky. In other hand Nagato has 6 bodies that will launch smth into Itachi even with broken body(ashura path when kakashi saved chodgi)
Nagato is immobilezed and lacks speed so people underestimates pain speeds too. He was able speeed blits s.m naruto,all 3 frog summons,6 tails naruto etc.. he was also able to Dodge twin lion fist attacks easily against hinata in close combat. I don't think itachi is faster than pain. The whole leaf shinobi's knews pain abilities but they couldn't do anything against him. Pain has his own ways in combat. Downplaying him isn't good.
He's faster than Itachi point blank period. Itachi isn't superhuman he's just on the high upper echelon of ninjas in terms of speed. The biggest cpomparison people use to justify Itachi having crazy speed feats is when he's fighting KCM naruto with taijutsu. This argument doesn't work because Naruto obviously wasn't going at full speed because Itachi and him were having a conversation, he was getting intel.
@@silaswells6706how you gonna say itachi isnt superhuman when he handled kcm naruto and bee at the same time with just his base sharingan and with his ms he had to save ems sasuke ,who fought at an even pace with kcm2 naruto in the war, from kabuto several times and easily tagged kabuto with the totsuka blade
@@AidenB1010firstly Itachi didn't handle both Naruto and Bee, that was Nagato Itachi fought them individually and was evenly matched Nagato not only blitzed and beat both KCM Naruto and Bee at the same time but also almost killed them as well if Itachi didn't sneak attacked and saved them And note that was a fatigued Naruto who was not even going all out Secondly, EMS Sasuke is not equal to KCM 2 Naruto, Sasuke himself admitted inferiority to him and that was a Sasuke amped with Naruto's chakra and Jugo's curse mark Lastly Itachi never tagged Kabuto with the totsuka blade Itachi only ever used the totsuka blade twice, once against Orochimaru and second time to seal Nagato
There’s one small point I disagree with, which is the statement that the Yata Mirror is omnidirectional. Swagkage has mentioned that Itachi is shown moving it to confront an oncoming attach, which would imply that it is not omnidirectional. If we factor is subscriber scaling, that would give the W to Swagkage.
A theory i like that explains itachis "sickness" is that time experienced in tsukiyomi is directly a trade off of itachis own life force. Itachi doesnt show signs of sickness until after the massacre when he used his first and longest tsukiyomi of 60 ish years on izumi. In the izumi tsukiyomi itachi and izumi live to be in their late 70s/ early 80s. which the math roughly works out a number similar to the age itachi diead. After that he only uses tsukiyomi for instances of 24-72 hours of dilated time. Also in the fight with hebi sasuke the big use of tsukiyomi is itachi showing sasuke how to get ems. Which only last about a few minutes and a few minutes after his final tsukiyomi use he drops dead. Basically the theory would serve itachi with the chakra of an insanely op old man after the massacre.
Yeah I’ve heard this, NCHammer (I believe made it) I will say, this isn’t directly provable, just more of a possibility and still works with my lines of scaling. The second Itachi Shinden novel, after Itachi slaughters the clan it can be implied that he was so depressed and suicidal thag stress was the cause of it. So food for thought regarding when it started and maybe how.
My favorite theory early on in the manga was that itachis tsukiyomi actually was the secret to unlock MS. He used it on kakashi once then next thing we know kakashi has the MS. Then he has used it on Sasuke a few times who awaken his after the fight. Neither happened instantly more like extended release. Unfortunately it turns out that wasn't it, but it was great early on when the manga was still new
This is always a weird debate because we know itachi is almost always sandbagging his fights, but pain has lore and feats for being really strong. When he went up against sm Naruto, we was weakened or chakra drained at this point. So it’s weird but I lean towards pain.
It’s taking higher forms of assumption due to probability of higher likely hoods, therefore to make an assertive claim on it, as I did, Occam’s razor, would take precedence giving the most likely option being the biju bombs size being suppressed and the beads being suppressed, it would just be an unknown variable therefore claiming one over the others would be erroneous
Just bc nagato pain is stronger than itachi doesn’t mean he can beat him. Minato isn’t one of the strongest characters in the show but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t beat majority of the show
Not the point of the video, but... 18:23 Izanagi, not Kamui. Also, I don't think Jiraiya could've really won if all the Paths of Pain were there from the very start. Activating the genjutsu, as well as entering Sage Mode takes quite a lot of time.
Well it’s stated it was Kamui. The third databook says that as much and yeah Pain’s statement is in reference to if they were and it wouldn’t change much bc again how much Pain held back and he was just saying that every path was there, frog song would have beaten them
@@Virhtue i love itachi finally some youtber with a great understanding of the show , u cannot count intelligence as 1point especially when they almost have same strength,how do u quantify Intelligence?again u forgot to mention itachis crow technique of him just dodging attacks by turning into a crow the finger genjutsu and not necessarilyusing susano just him turning into crows like in the kisame fight, u gained a subscriber
Average Itachidaras ☕ . Itachi's Genjutsu not gonna work against Pain because they constantly getting chakra from Nagato and Tsukyoumi us useless because Pain's body can't feel Pain and it get breaked in second because Constantly getting chakra..... And Jiraiya's Genjutsu worked because That Genjutsu stated Unbreakable. And Itachi can't see Pain's camelion summon 😂😂😂 Which can provide Pain aa wide vision Gaara's sand is faster then Amatharasu so Pain can see building up chakra and avoid Amatharasu like nothing... Pain Gang bang Itachi...
ts is ass💀💀💀 first off nagato constantly giving chakra to pain doesn’t mean anything since i can argue that itachi would get tsukuyomi off before nagato even realizes and pain not being able to feel pain also doesn’t matter since they can still be killed and we know that tsukuyomi can kill people and itachi most likely can see pain comelion since he has the ms which is stated to see all things in the universe but it’s debatable and gaara sand is not faster than itachi amaterasu💀 if ur referring to sasuke amaterasu, sasuke and itachi amaterasu work differently and nagato literally failed to see itachi building chakra for his amaterasu so what makes u think pain would😭 itachi slams pain
I agree. As a shinobi overall I think Pain is stronger just because of his well-rounded arsenal and if the opponent doesn't have intel it's almost a sure lose fight for them. However, in a direct confrontation Itachi is the hard counter of Pain since from Jiraiya and Pa and Ma's analysis, Pain is clearly weak to genjutsu and Itachi just happens to be the master of genjutsu.
Sound genjustsu bro SOUND not a single Rinnegan user in the franchise of Naruto has ever been put under VISUAL genjustsu hell Sasuke negged infinite tsukyomi because of his rinnegan and was able to fly back down and cover the rest of team 7 so to say tsukyomi a weaker genjustsu would work is disingenuous asf😐
@@Virhtue itachi never even tried to use tsukuyomi against nagato(we all know genjutsu is itachi go too) ..also sasuke was the only one that didn’t get caught in the infinite tsukuyomi not because he just had a susano but because he had the rennigan empowered susano…….those are the only two situations i can even think can be used but they are definitely arguable
Itachi is beating pain in a encounter. Itachi is losing to pain in a stand up fight where he has to take down the paths. If you do it like a fighting game he loses, if he gets to learn, disengage, and find nagato pain is likely to lose. Neither of these scenarios is 100% due to the high lethality of the fighters involved.
Alive Itachi dies of chakra over use or another one of Pains wincons before he defeats all of the paths, that is if he is able to defeat them, let alone find Nagato Edo itachi will beat Nagato if Nagato cannot go red haired from white haired, but if Nagato gets any Chakra then Itachi is trapped in chibaku tensei as it took him, Naruto and Bee to break that Jutsu, he wouldnt manage by himself.
Rather than pain was holding back I think it's more of that Naruto was on offense while pain was on defense observing Naruto's sage mode comparing it to jiraiya's sage mode (speed, power, movements, abilities ) and waiting for his powers to recover ( pain can't use the shinra tensei for awhile after that Large one )
i think with chibaku tensei in an open battlefield itachi wouls still press pain alot, but eventually has no counter to chibaku tensei. as an edo its basically even as itachi gets more buffs from being an edo
We’ve literally seen itachi almost get one shot by nagato, if bee and naruto weren’t there they could not have destroyed the chibaku tensei’s core. Without B and naruto he gets sealed and one shot right then and there. End of discussion. Also, to say itachi was keeping up with KCM naruto is pretty far fetched, naruto wasn’t trying to kill or even hurt itachi while itachis body was going all out against him, naruto was just gathering info, also, when itachi hits nagato with his totsuka blade it’s because he’s completely stationary because kabuto who isn’t even on the battlefield and barely knows how to use his ability took over his brain and movements. Pain washes, I’m sorry, you can disagree and argue but you’re not changing my mind.
Tbh with you there’s not a single fight itachi had to take that pain couldn’t handle just as easy and most pain/nagato fights was just simply him getting dunked on to further plot
It literally wouldn’t work if it weren’t Omni directional. There are attacks within the series that’s attack from all sides (Haku’s ice senbon) so it would inherently have to be capable of being omnidirectional. People also pretend we didn’t literally watch it change size and shape abundantly on screen against Orochimaru.
@@Virhtue nawwwwwww. SM Jiraiya had issues. Itachi has a very slim chance. His only chance is knowing all the secrets behind the Rinnegan, ambushing Nagato and kill him before a fight even starts. But seeing as how Nagato is extremely hard to sneak up on, I don’t see that happening.
I came by after seeing Pain and Itachi swap fight you did with TG. I didn't make it to the end of this video, only about 33 minutes in, for a few reasons. The main one is that I think you missed the mark on your goal stated at the beginning of the video. I just wanted to say I appreciate the effort you put in to it and am interested to see you explore different topics another time.
This was a damn nearly perfect scaling video. And it’s so funny to see many people hating on ur scaling just because they’re butt hurt from the fact you prefer Itachi. Nowadays you can’t even spell his name without being called an Itachitard. The most funny thing about that is, the exact same people who call you an Itachitard don’t bring up any facts or arguments. Their ignorance lead themselves to a Gen-Jutsu (ironically) where they believe everything what’s logical for them is a fact. Of course Itachi isn’t on White Mask Obito or Madara level but the downplaying this man gets also from NCHammer is absolutely ridiculous!
Idk why this is still a debate Pain wins hands down he got way too much of an arsenal compared to even a 100% healthy itachi. This is like comparing ssj gohan to namek frieza
I think itachi has a real tough time if he fights like naruto.. open area just head to head not retreating but thats not how itachi rolls. I say he has a hard time bc he doesnt have any cover to launch some strategy.. itachi is smarter and faster than pain but not as powerful.. i think itachi would have an easier time if they were all in a small cage.. he could just blitz and use susaanoo.. if its open area pain takes it.. but if its in the rain village or the forest or mountains.. itachi takes it.. edit: ill also add that tsykunomi probably will work on the diva or nagato bc its not his rinnegan and the sharingan has way more genjutsu feats than the rinnegan does and itachi is of uchiha blood so his do jutsu is probably superior in that way.. plus itachi can fight outside of his susanoo and use his crows like pain does and give himself a broader range of vision
I think Itachi will need izanagi to be able to win against all 6 paths together. I see itachi having a counter to all of pains abilities except for chibaku tensei. This is where I'll see Itachi needing izanagi. Than once he uses it. He'll pull out totsuka blade and gg pain extreme diff..
I don’t believe pain is as fast as sage naruto, in there hand to hand skirmish sage naruto whoooped him and they even went base to base for a minute and i know base naruto cant go fist to fist with itachi.
genjutsu wouldn't work on pain since rinnegan is a stronger dojutsu and pain rods gives him the ability to disrupt chakra flow. also all mightly push is said to negate ninjutsu so he can get rid of the susano and all those tools. obito just out right says in the manga that hebi sasuke sharingan is stronger than itachi sharingan. as far as the itachi blitzing nagato its explained by kabuto that it wasnt that itachi was to fast the issue was that nagato had problems moving out the way due to his legs and was hoping the added field of vision would help mitigate that so no itachi is not a blitz level above kcm naruto. also there is difference between the yasaka beads and just regular beads in terms of output. judging from the scale of damage they to those rocks in the cave they wouldnt be able to disrupt the chibaku tensei the way it did with nagato.
The rinnegan being immune to occular genjutsu is actually a myth😧… The tools are sacred matchless weapons and have better statements implying them to be above Shinra Tensei and what is there to push, they lack mass. Its explained by Kabuto “Itachi Uchiha is clearly different”
Rinnegan was said to be immune to non sound bas genjutsu. And they arent nagato so it’s worthless. Like when ibuki caught one of the pains. It would just be a waste for itachi.
I think Itachi is gonna win because he’s like a super genius and I think he is above SM Naruto in terms of strength, tho Nagato has tons of Chakra and is very durable, he fought the entire village and destroyed it, won against SM Naruto, and won against 6 tails Naruto and still continued fighting after that, he is a beast when it comes to Chakra reserves and durability
itachi would figure out their weakness easily like in the nagato vs itachi naruto bee fight but he wont have the power to destroy planetory devastation alone and defend himself against almighty push its simply too strong he can defeat every pain except for tendo pain hes too strong
as for the genjutsu nah i doubt it would work for one its more implies hes specifically weak to auditory genjutsu as he should be naturally resistant to visual genjutsu those eyes are literally madaras second the chakra rods send chakra from nagato to the pains but it isnt a 2 way street they are receivers not transmitters so even if they are caught in the genjutsu it shouldnt affect as the chalra wouldnt trace back nagato third its very unlikely he was effected based on how qyuckly the other paths got there u mean to tell me in the few seconds between when jiraiya took out the 3 he was fighting nagato was released from the jutsu then immediately sent all 3 remaining pains and reached him immediately makes little sense bare minumin thats a crazy speed feat for pain on the topic of speed they should be comparable as naruto notes that his SM is faster than kcm AND the kcm naruto who fought itachi was fatigued overall im taking pain hell prolly lose some bodies but worst case its just diva and diva would win through simmilar stats and the fact his abilites work well against him amaterasu should honestly be able to dodge it aswell as he scales to sm naruto and a clone naruto scaled to a raikage in speed
W take. You know it's a good argument when the defending comments are pure copium 🤣🤣. Is it a coincidence that the best argued analysis has Itachi winning? I think not. Though Obito used Izanagi, not Kamui to escape Amaterasu. It even says it in the databook: The mystery of his power. What's most puzzling is how Madara survived. How did Madara survive? Izanagi. Also KCM2 Naruto would no diff alive Minato.
@@Virhtue By then it was too late. The flames had propagated throughout his torso and chemically bonded with his flesh, and he could no longer separately phase his body without taking the flames with him. It's the same way he can't just phase through Torune's bugs. Besides, if he phased through it, it would have spread through the cave. Kamui leaves far too many questions unanswered. Izanagi provides a clean solution.
Some of the scaling here is biased😂 i dont care much about the itachi vs pain but the mini vs battles throughout this video very biased.Virhtue I see you can have good reasoning eg. the edo tensei bleeding and being too bloody for young viewers but neglect good reasoning on other points😂 eg. Saying pain and itachi is faster than sm jiraya or kcm naruto which is not the case why? Because itachi and pain are able to react to people faster than themselves because of doujutsu and not because of being faster.
No, Pain is above Jiraiya due to pure physicality. Pain is faster than Six Tails, that’s shown and we never saw him against the Eught so Pain’s speed has to be based off narrative. Same goes for Itachi, he blatantly scales above. What about that is bias. If you claim “you talked more about Itachi” that’s just because again Pain’s alive showings on screen are better than Itachi’s and are less niche.
@@vaughnjackson6297 interesting thought and I don’t really disagree, Jiraiya in Sage Mode was confident in taking them one on one (when Pain wasn’t trying to Kill Jiraiya) and we see that the Human path is above or high end relative to Sage Jiraiya with the other paths out so I think the other paths could be above Base Jiraiya
This bias for itachi is insane you downplayed that whole chibaku tensei part kuz itachi by himself is never getting out of one of those things and he absolutely has 0 counters for it… the Amaterasu literally never did damage to any real person ever and it takes 2 days to travel and pain has a path that could absorb or repel it but ig that’s not an option… pain could use rinnegan rods and if itachi catches the whiff of one it’s up for him… If a base sharingan could break out of tsukyomi there shouldn’t even be a talk about a superior dojutsu like the rinne just not being affected or breaking it immediately because to control 6 pains…one needs immaculate chakra control and all the pains literally have genjutsu blockers… and bro has cancer…you think he’s winning a 6v1 smh he has a few uses of each of his jutsu and he might just die after that or use up the rest of whatever he has left and pain does him just like Jiraiya…itachi was written with potential but the fact that he literally had the sickness destroys everything because as I said 6v1…few uses of each jutsu…and pain literally overpowers him unless he uses his Susano’o and that half ass Susano’o is going in a chibaku tensei itachi does have wings cons but realistically they’re a lot slimmer🤝
Good vid, however i have some disagreements. I'll be up front my takes: Sick itachi vs pain in konoha: pain wins Alive full health itachi vs rain pain: itachi wins Edo v edo: pain wins Alive prime for both: pain wins. I'll explain my reasoning by trying to counter some of your points. The first being that itachi can handle chibaku tensei using the beads cuz he output a third of the force to destroy one as an edo. For starters he didn't destroy the fully formed planetoid or burst through it like 8 tails naruto did, he destroyed the core which in the panel you can see is still exposed. Secondly i believe it's disingenuous to say he contributed a third of the ap to perform that feat. The three way panel could give such impression but using the 8 tails biju bomb and kcm 1 naruto's rasenshuriken we know the rasenshuriken is weaker than bee's biju bomb. This is cuz after he used a rasenshuriken on the 3rd raikage and it was ineffective he was willing to try using a biju bomb (even though we he was unable to make it). Additionally bee's biju bomb was comparable to kuramas so unless ur implying that kcm 1 rasenshuriken is as strong as kuramas biju bomb i don't think taking that panel as all three attacks contributed evenly to the destruction of the sphere. Secondly the blitz arguments for edo itachi vs edo nagato always seem like people don't pick up the context of the scene. Itachi "blitzes" nagato twice. The first is after he blinds nagatos summons and then blindsides him while he's dealing with bee and naruto. It's obvious he was occupied and itachi caught him by suprise. It'd be like saying everytime someone suckerpunched another person they blitzed that person. It's more than fair to assume that a nagato fully focused or even a bit more focused could put up a counter attack similar to what nagato did when bee charged him while he was handling kcm 1 naruto. Essentially the only was this argument would make sense would be saying that the battle starts, nagato brings out his summons, starts looking at the dirt while itachi blinds his summons and suprise attacks him. The second whoch has more validity is itachi using the totska blade to seal nagato. The smoke as we see adds hinderance to nagato. I disagree with your assertion that the Rinnegan can see right through the smoke like the byakugan or smth. Your argument being that pain saw jiraiya through the smoke and blocked his punch. However, that could be explained as one of the pains outside the smoke noticing jiraiya's trajectory aa he launched into the smoke for an attack. Thus is more consistent as when naruto used a smoke assisted attack on the animal path, it was completely blind and unable to see especially as the pains outside the smoke were obstructed as the animal path was lured into gammabuntas mouth while in the smoke. That said, it would be disingenuous to say the smoke covered everything, as there was some space between the smoke and nagato. Nonetheless itachi was able to land the attack on nagato and it shows some level of speed superiority. That said my problem comes with the blitz connotation that people use regarding that scene. If we were to follow that standard then anytime anyone landed an attack on someone they would have blitzed said person. Using an example, we would have to then say that naruto blitzed kakuzu when he landed the rasenshuriken. Or would we say that kabuto blitzed itachi when he cut him in half? Now some other counterpoints. Nagato can absorb amaterasu without hurting himself. I believe kaguya did the same to sasuke's amaterasu and functionally, it should work the same way. Additionally, arguing that itachi was sick as an edo doesn't make sense even using your logic in thw video. We know this as itachi was consistently coughing and basically blind right before death. U hypothesize that edo tensei ressurrects u right at the moment of your death similar to how hiruzen was ressurected as an old man. However, it's shown or at least implied that this is done without any of the flaws or ilnesses one had at death as edo hiruzen was able to use 4 shadow clones while he could only muster two while alive. Itachi did not have an illness debuff as an edo and he also got a pseudo buff of basically having an ems as an edo. Sure he bled while using amaterasu but he never experienced any of the pains orshortcomings of the ms like the pain of using the susano or going blind from overuse. I'd go so far as to presume edos have a dulled if not muted sense of pain as they take fatal or life threatening attacks and walk them off while living characters suffer greatly from said attacks even if they survive them. Take the use of amaterasu on edo nagato compared to how bee reacted to being engulfed by amaterasu. So in all edo itachi similar to edo madar got buffs and debuffs from being an edo . Additionally, i am undecided on how i think tsukoyomi affects the Rinnegan. But safe to say, pain at the very least should know genjutsu is itachi's specialty and know not to look him in the eye. Additionally you could use the chakra potency/nullification argument to substantiate that any non tsukoyomi genjutsu from itachi wouldn't work on nagato. The potency argument is that having greater chakra reserves prevents you from being put under genjutsu similar to how ms sasuke couldn't genjutsu the 4th raikage but madara could. I believe everyone should be in agreement that nagato should have notably more chakra than itachi. All in all, using those claims, and counterclaims i made to sone of your arguments i belive the matchuos would go how i initially stated. Thanks
I personally disagree, but I see where you are coming from. I agree that itachi beats pain High diff. But I personally think edo naguto beats edo itachi high diff
Sasuke was holding his own against Itachi...And killed him. And Sasuke would just be bodied by kakashi. And pain literally killed kakashi. Shinra tensei itachi and he's dead
@@ShadowFiend777itachi literally went to obito for help to kill the anbu. Kishimoto loves itachi. But obito shoule be 10x better in every category than itachi. I hate this 21 year is better than every ninja and non other random ninja wven comes close yall don’t find that lame or weird..the average jonin is 30 years old. With about 500-1000 missions completed knows 2-3 natures..etc..itachi existence makes it hard to believe thr alliance struggle with madara..not even one ninja aged 12- 75 were even similar yo itachi. Itachi was 17-18 in part 1..why tf arent all ninjas this dangerous or at least jonins? Kishimoto gave this nigga the energy every jonin+ ninjas should have. Madara wouldn’t have one shot itachi if he was in that crowd. Its mfs alove with tripple the time itachi had and are still soooo much weaker while being ACTIVE NINJAS. Itachi shouldnt have been any stronger than sasuke. Itachi stops training in general at age 13-14. But can jusr capture tailed beast and “beat” pain. Hes the worst written character ever istg. Like genin naruto regular defeated chunins..but itachi exist? Likw shouldnt most ninjas be itachis? Like i understand itachi is a prodigy. But kakashi a REALLL prodigy makes itachi look imaginary. Kakashi has the age, known experience (being in war,anbu,then a leaf jonin he has history of being a ninja so his skills make sense hes seen alot) the attitude. And even with that he rarely wins against the antagonist. Itachi has has no weaknesses and is essentially perfect. Basically getting the level of power/experience hed have at 30+ at age 16-18.
@@someweirdguyi like how this entire essay is just yapping about how itachi being so ridiculously powerful just upsets the power scale and doesnt provide any actual reasoning. besides its explained that itachi was a generational prodigy that had never been seen in any village, at 5 years old before even attending the ninja academy he had to save his JONIN mother from debris and was implied to use the same chakra amplificiatioj technique as sakura and tsunade. at 8 years old he resists obitos genjutsu and awakens his 2 tomoe sharingan despite never even having the 1 tomoe. everything about itachi as a talent is an unrivaled fluke that danzo stated comes once every century or every few generations, i dont know why youre mad other people wouldnt be as strong as he was at his young age
@@Virhtue pain have the evolution of sharigan the rinegan > can absorb chakra > he win vs the kyubi and only the plot armor make naruto win > destroy a village easy> izanami and izanagi is 1 use and they are literally nerf itachi > pain have all counter for itachi
Idk why this is a debate. Pains way stronger than itachi . Itachi isn't beating the whole leef village , sage naruto 5 times hinata , sage creatures & the 8th tails. Let alone When he's fatigued
@Soular248 itachi is not beating all of then in a single go. If you think that idk what to tell you. He couldn't beat the leaf village by himself. He'd run out of stamina l, Chakra & go blind .same as if he fought pain . Pains a 10 itachis an 8
@@joshuacanny4858 I’m not saying he’s just gonna walk up and solo the leaf village like Pain because he don’t fight like that. But he would beat everyone that Pain beat in a 1v1 so that’s not a good argument. You just saying he’ll run out of stamina but he has a bunch of one shot abilities that can quickly deal with people before he runs out of stamina. Plus his chakra reserves are better than what most people give him credit for, and he’s faster than Pain and smarter
i disagree with the arguments that itachis sickness is why he’s going blind in the kage summit we see sasuke while slowly advancing his MS getting stronger and stronger he starts getting blind with worse perception the more he uses his abilities so i see no reason why the same wouldn’t apply to itachi using his abilities over the years while going on missions so edo itachi would be stronger and it wouldn’t be to far fetched to say faster aswell depending on what your interpretation of the sickness is but bare minimum it had an effect on his body so unless this has been debunked before, i don’t see whats wrong with saying he was slower while alive otherwise it makes the arguments for hebi sasuke and deidara being at KCM1 levels of speed alot more valid and ik he was holding back against sasuke just enough to rid him of orochimaru but i still dont see why that would include holding back speed wise just like how people say pain was holding back against kakashi when he dodged his kick or when people say minato was holding back against obito when he pulled up behind him, both speed wise ofc
It’s so weird to me how people think the guy who beat the entire hidden leaf solo would lose to someone like itachi. Y’all really think itachi could do something better or equivalent to that?
He literally would😭😭
I mean the uchiha clan was stronger than the leaf
@@ppharaoh5421 no they weren’t. They would have taken over already. I’m not sure the coup would have even been successful. Itachi would no diff the leaf? That’s a tough argument to make. His skill set is best one on one. He would need the mangekyo more than he can probably handle
@@justinmathis8078Thats the problem. It’s the WAY you are comparing them.
Itachi did beat kakashi easier than pain. Not to mention Itachi can do much!
Pain is definitely kcm speed when pouring all chakra into the deva path.
Yeah, Tendo, is again I think a KCM1 level threat. I think it would be rather awkward that other akatsuki members such as Kisame can be reached to that speed and Pain is some ‘sub-sage mode’ Naruto level opponent when that’s not with Pain’s intricate monster narrative.
Pain at optimal range and full power all paths are kcm speed
@@Virhtue Kisame reached KCM1 level by absorbing Bee's chakra, he wasn't on that tier until after the Nagato and Itachi died.
Pain isn't KCM1 level, he's in-between Sage Naruto and 6 Tails Naruto.
he is faster than 6 tails,he literally outruns it@@GeneFOX70
and tbh 6 tails might be faster than kcm1
No matter how many videos anybody makes on this topic, Nagato vs Itachi is a debate that will never end. Probably the best match up in the series.
Couldn’t agree more, been around for so long, still so contentious
Literally nagato wins very easily. This is only a battle for itachi fans. Nagato chibaku tensei gg..tf itachi gonna do amatasru it?
That’s what makes it such a great discussion though.
@@someweirdguyI think alive nagato beats alive itachi but Edo Itachi Beats Edo nagato
I’d argue Minato vs Itachi is the best battle that could happen.
Why do people use Naruto casually moving with Itachi while actively not tryna fight and talk to Itachi as a feat for Itachi. Kabuto was trying to capture Naruto this does not make him Kcm speed . Chibabu tensei ends the fight Itachi can’t break out of it.Gedo statue into soul dragon ends the fight.Pain is immune to all his genjutsu unless all of them get hit which is not happening. All of Itachi’s ninjutsu are getting absorbed and actually make pain stronger when they get absorbed. Chakra rods disrupt chakra so if Itachi gets tagged he won’t be able to use his abilities to the extent that he would need. In terms of stamina lol, he’s fighting an Uzumaki who can Solo a village ,fight Sage Naruto with prep time and win and then bring back thousands of humans back to life and still have some life energy to have a conversation with Naruto.People always wanna give Itachi all the hypotheticals for his “Prime” when in vs battles but always downplay what a hypothetical “prime” pain would look like.
A hypothetical “prime” pain would be Red haired Nagato that can move with all 6 paths of pain fighting along side him like what Obito had. With Nagato individually being above all of the paths and having all the abilities. Nagato being the guy who could No diff Bee and KCM Naruto. Imagine if Nagato would’ve absorbed the 9 tails chakra like he did Bee ……Yeah
The Rinnegan is above the Sharigan with Nagato to this day being the most competent and versatile Rinnegan user we’ve seen in the verse including six paths characters. So good luck to Itachi ina 1v1 …. Or 1v6 I guess or 1v7
Can’t be said any better
u mean the fodder that konohamaru handled, and one punches killed them there are many ways to deal with the chibaku tensei, No chakra rods can pierce through a Susano, worst of all one with the yata mirror ,izanagi negates chibaku, it could still be sliced with a sword and its basically just stone.with one of his strongest long range ninjutsu he destroyed 33.3 percent and in the kabuki fight he produced 4, deidara could do thesame against the leaf, it simply depends on your jutsu
I'm sure Itachi's Susano is stronger and can destroy the Chibabu tensei of pain with a swing of his sword. Itachi is fast and smart enough to not get caught by the gedo statue or anything of that sort. Also, before the gedo statue can do anything, I'm sure Itachi would make it eat his amaterasu and burn it to crisp. How are you sure about that? Itachi's genjutsu is powerful and capable. There's a reason why he has tsukoyomi the stronger genjutsu in the verse, hence why they used infinite tsukoyomi. I'm sure Itachi could catch one if not all of them in a genjutsu of which they can't break out off. Even if it was only one pain at a time, his genjutsu might be hard or impossible to leave, leaving one of the pains eliminated. How you so sure he doesn't have a genjutsu where he can catch them all? He even control the dream realm. Itachi is intelligent and keen, I'm sure after pain absorbs his first ninjutsu attack Itachi would be aware of it and know not to use it. At least against the one path that can absorb ninjutsu, the others are still susceptible. True but that's only if Pain is fast and perceptive enough to catch Itachi with the chakra rods. What if Itachi pulls out his Susano to negate the chakra rods to begin with, I don't think they can affect the Susano or Yata mirror at that. Naruto won what do you mean and win? You must be watching the wrong show. Itachi can solo that whole village too and with a swing of his Susano's sword, I'm sure he could cause just as much or more damage than pain did to the village. His blade could also just cut through and seal the pains. If he gets to nagato with that blade it's over. Nobody's trying to downplay Pain, I know he is one of the strongest that there is in the Naruto verse in all aspects. However, y'all are the ones always hating and trying to make Itachi more fodder when he lives up to his reputation!
A lot of People have misconception in a lot of things...When pain says that after the jiraya fight He means-If jiraya knew the secret..He means that after killing the 3 paths he woudnt had let them layed there to be revived , if he knew he coudve take the bodies away ...2-That comment from obito shows that he doenst know pain true intentions or they aren't really on the same page , and shows that obito thinks he keeps pain in control , pain hold back against jiraya cuz it was on the rain village he couldnt go all out to not destroy anything neither did he had to ..That shows obito didn't knew pain so well or was that close..That is very implied that pain-nagato kept a close eye on obito such as konan.Pain and itachi are objectively above óbito, obito has one weapon an hax that his very difficult to understand and different...Itachi hax variety one hit kill hax intelligence.
Pain -most Powerful hax outta the 3 and battle warfare IQ.
Tell me 2 character that had more things going on at the same time while keeping a charade or a behind the curtain plan , there's no other than pain and itachi...All akatsuki jutsus are Simply allowed trough nagato and i mean all of them ...Mofo is basically dead , sharing chakra with 6 bodies, has a gedo mazo statue summoned just chillin on a cave with a seal that makes it indestructible ,protects the rain village ,and the rest of jutsus made by him for akatsuki..Itachi all the stuff about being a double agent...Is clear as water obito needed the 2 of them not the contrary..And you can implie it to ways Obito feared itachi so the way to deal with him was by mutual ageement or consenses on plans ideas -He couldnt manipulate him.
Pain obito feared him but was able to manipulate him based the story consequnces and circumstances from the past but still not knowing to wich extent thats why the need from time to time to implie that hes above and as it is known nagato did had plans and studied to overtake him cuz he didnt trust obitos resolve or plans on the long run...
A bit of conjectural analysis, however I could agree with this generally
@@Virhtue yeah, a lot of this is left to interpretation unfortunately. However, it is possible that Obito did not know all the abilities of pain.
I dont think Itachi could deal with Planetary Devastation on his own,if he could...he would not of asked Naruto and Bee for help with it
It's not that he couldn't, but since they were all there why not just do it together? After all, Itachi wanted to teach Naruto about teamwork and relying on others!
I'm sure the susano he carries with a swing could cause just as much of or if not more damage than the one pain used.
@@Juan_Uchihayou're making shit up there's no context that he was teaching Naruto anything about teamwork Naruto is already kcm1 he knows a lot about teamwork at the point he ask because he doesn't have strong arsenal in his pull to destroy the core of probably one of the most powerful jutsus in the series even when pain uses it.
@@see3deezz no I also believe itachi wanted to teach naruto about teamwork, itachi throws 3 instead of 4 susanoo ring attacks used against kabuto so he wasn t using his strongest attack in that instance to destroy chibacu tensei , his attack is contributing to 1/3 or 33% , his strongest attack will be 40% so attacking just twice 80% will be enough to neutralize chibacu tensei since 100% was enough to pulverize chibacu tensei completely so overkill and itachi can attack twice and time the attacks since he can time and calculate 8 flying kunai in the air and change their trajectory at the same time before he hit the ground in 0.1 sec and chibacu tensei s absorbtion is very slow and because is gravity works the best with big things like 9 tails not a small zero weight itachi, even if it gives him extra 5 seconds it will be more then enough I will argue he can throw more then 2 attacks in that timeframe +bonus is in character to itachi to spam attack😂Hitachi can alone destroy chibacu tensei very easily I may add
@@ciupaca9576 except he literally said use your strongest ninjutsu lmao theres also no feats or amps or data thats says he can destroy it on his own. Again oure just making shit up those percentages are added by the number of attacks but that head canon for you we don't know for sure especially since he used it once with the help of killer bee and Naruto how strong that attack was or if he could do it himself. I doubt a live Itachi can generate anything on the level of himself KCM Naruto and Killer bee who are arguably the strongest characters in the show at this point. I can see if he got help from like a Sakura or something but he got help from literally the strongest tailed beast. Nothing about teamwork was aid or needed especially since at this point Naruto has been on team missions for the whole series.
You are soo soo wrong pain is much stronger then itachi and He can Not destroy a chibaku tensei
I find it ironic that Tobirama of all characters kinda counters his argument on Edo Itachi being weakend/suppressed as he states verbatim the edo summons are *close* to their full power.
@@ShadowFiend777 those are two different Edo Tensei entirely. Itachi is suppressed and weakened how can you even deny that, Itachi was incapable of using the maximum susanoo or didn’t it’s one or the other. Also both commands Itachi is put under (Kabuto’s and Koto) do not have him operate at full power
@@Virhtue Well for one, Kabuto surpassed Orochimaru in edo tensei and second I believe it's stated Orocimaru gained access to Kabutos memories (including his improved edo tensei) which is how he knew about white zetsu.
The bottom line: all edo tensei are "close" to their original power.
@@ShadowFiend777 he takes back his chakra that’s really it. But no not all Edo Tensei are the same😭
@@Virhtue I see your point but at the same time why would itachi get bee and naruto to use tailed beast bombs, both stronger raw power attacks than any moves in itachi's arsenal, on the chibaku tensei center. There's no way Itachi can get past planetary devastation; it's kinda just an insta kill on him. At the same time, Pain would never start a match with such a move.
Itachi vs Pain
1. Itachi, Naruto & Bee Vs Nagato (controlled by Kabuto) There's a huge difference. Kabuto almost forgot about Chibaku. The real Nagato wouldn't have just stood there like a puppet. Nagato has sensory to spot Kabuto for Itachi to find. He'll easily spot Itachi nearby. Plus, Itachi had to remind Kabuto that Nagato had sensory. Itachi was finished when Nagato casted Chibaku (Planetary Devastation). The real Nagato wouldn't allow Itachi's Totsuka blade to reach the core too.
2. Naruto vs Pain = Pain (after Konoha destroyed)
- Jiraiya's info
- Prep time with 2 Sage clones
- Needed help from Frog Sage to reverse summon Naruto's clones
- Tsunade's slug advising Naruto, maybe healing too
- Pain almost made Naruto lose hope when he pinned him down until Hinata SUPER triggered him.
- Minato had to reseal for Naruto, and rebuild his confidence.
- Naruto gained Sage mode after being saved by Minato.
- Naruto fought drained Pain after destroying the whole damn village!
- On top of all of this, Pain never attacked Naruto with the intention to kill. Naruto attacked purely to kill.
Naruto would've been SUPER dead if it was truly 1 vs 1. They both were taught by Jiraiya, and came from the Uzumaki clan. Pain, "You and I are sibling disciples. As students of the same master, we ought to be able to understand one another." (A joke with truth)
3. Itachi Vs Pain = Pain
Ultimately, it'll come down to who has more chakra, Nagato. Pain is too much of a powerhouse for Itachi to last. Itachi is finished once his Susano'o is gone, assuming he's nearly or is out of chakra. Think about how well Nagato was able to control the Six Paths simultaneously. Even Pain's puppet uses advanced technologies greater than ours, like lasers and homing missiles.
Amaterasu will do absolutely nothing because it'll get absorbed or pulled off immediately! Not to mention, Amaterasu could get absorbed with a scroll, like how Jiraiya did after Itachi and Kisame ran away from Jiraiya's jutsu. I'm sure Jiraiya taught him about it. Raikage dodged Amaterasu against Sasuke, which means it's not as fast as Sasuke's Kirin (lightning). Gaara easily pulled out Madara out of his Susano'o. That means Itachi won't be perfectly guarded. Maybe Pain could pull him out because when he pulls, I don't think anything must enter Susano'o to grab Itachi, however, a push seems different. If Itachi's Totsuka blade can't reach the core of Pain's Chibaku, then he'll get trapped inside along with Susano'o. Susano'o won't be able to move.
Visual genjutsu doesn't work on Rinnegan.
(Proof): Naruto chapter 677 page 9 aka page 678. Infinite Tsukuyomi does not work on three things that were stated in the manga; Perfect Susano'o, Rinnegan and the reanimated (undead). Black Zetsu, "The light can't penetrate that Susano'o? His Rinnegan can deter even this jutsu?" This means not even the Infinite Tsukuyomi can work on Perfect Susano'o and Rinnegan. Also, Itachi's Mangekyo Sharingan is TWO LEVELS BEHIND Rinnegan, while the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan is one level behind.
Rinnegan requires Uchiha and Senju blood to activate. It is extremely rare and powerful. Why would the author make Rinnegan so LEGENDARY? The story made it clear that it was more powerful than any eye, including Mangekyō Sharingan. All that legendary talk for what? The author, Masashi Kishimoto, stated that Pain is the strongest Akatsuki.
"The strongest man in Akatsuki heads for Naruto." Some people try to curve this by stating the time when Itachi gave Naruto his power, but obviously, it was referring to Pain because he was FINALLY being revealed. The author wouldn't ruin the hype by stating, "Oh, I was referring to Itachi" because it would stop the exciting momentum. It wouldn't follow the flow.
Here's another question. Why didn't Itachi use Tsukuyomi right after Nagato casted Chibaku (Planetary Devastation), nor at all? Itachi knew he had infinite chakra too. He could've disabled Nagato so easily with it. Itachi probably knew that it wouldn't have worked against Rinnegan. If he wasn't sure then he would've at least tested it out because it's better than risking death or being captured. Itachi used Amaterasu multiple times, but he wouldn't even use Tsukuyomi once? It's because he never used it that answers the question about Rinnegan able to block all visual genjutsu, including Tsukuyomi.
Kakashi never put Rinnegan-Obito under genjutsu.
Only one person can put the other person in genjutsu at a time, not both at a time. You can't have Obito put Kakashi in genjutsu WHILE Kakashi put Obito in genjutsu. It's one at a time. Obito was in CONTROL of Kakashi during that whole fight. It was all by HIS design to have Kakashi destroy his heart that Madara implanted.
There are so many ways this fight can last long. Pain will keep reviving. Itachi will have a tough time catching him. Nagato, aka 7th Pain, can summon the Gedo Statue that's even bigger than Choji and his dad. Even they needed help. If used right, it can hurt a lot. Itachi's Yata Mirror is strong, but it doesn't cover everywhere. Susano'o can only handle so much against multiple attacks simultaneously. There are ways for Pain to grab Susanoo's arm that's holding the Totsuka blade, like his lizard's tongue or other animals biting it. Pain could even absorb away the Susano'o because Susano'o is chakra construct. Pain could use his Almighty Push hidden under the ground to blow away Susano'o while Itachi is being distracted fighting others. We all saw how much Itachi lost chakra each time he used his eye powers.
Eventually, Itachi will deplete all his chakra. Pain will rip out Itachi's soul with one touch while the others attack (not all 6). Itachi can never waste his chakra against Pain. Nagato is from the Uzumaki clan, which carries the most chakra. If this fight drags, it'll come down to who has more chakra. Pain wins. (6 Pains)
Itachi's two eyes versus 6 Pains + 7th Pain with All Powers. Izanagi will be useless against Chibaku because he'll just get pulled up again. It won't matter how long his Izanagi lasts. I doubt Izanagi and Izanami link all the Pains. Itachi might have to fight blind against the 7th Pain. And that's IF Itachi could figure out how to kill him without chakra. Either way, one touch is all Nagato will need to rip out Itachi's soul.
Pull + Rip = dead.
Or another Chibaku (Planetary Devastation) while hidden and ready to absorb powers.
I understand Itachi is extremely intelligent and powerful, but Pain is just too much of a powerhouse for Itachi. Even ChatGPT stated that Pain would win (just for humor about ChatGPT, but it's true that ChatGPT stated that Pain would win).
Ure conveniently ignoring that black zetsu said itachi's susanoo is invincible. He never said that about pain or nagato, cuz he knew he was just a pawn that cant even use the eyes to their full potential. In reality pain's best chance is to run. Whatever he tries, the yata mirror will repel it. Push, pull, doesnt matter. Yata mirror repels all attacks. If it didnt, then his susanoo wouldnt be invincible, but we know for a fact that it is as it was mentioned.
you gotta understand that the reason nagato got hot with totsuka blade is because itachi destroyed the eyes of the rinnegan from the summons and that rebirth statue whatever its called and nagato is far stronger then pain
Its worth remembering that obito was posing as madara, and its unlikely nagato ever fought obito to know if he could beat him or not. It makes sense he would not test this 'madara'. Also we cant be sure itachi is responsible for 1/3 of countering the planetary devastation, and if he was we also dont know if making more beads makes the attack stronger or just divides its potency in more beads( also edo nagato is weaker than alive nagato).
Also, calling the frog song "normal" sound genjutsu its just wrong, its stated to the the strongest type of genjutsu in the series and it likely around before the sage of six paths. And it makes no sense narratively for a MS genjutsu work flawlessly against a rinnegan that is supose to be an MS evolution.
Anyway good video.
Firstly, the double page is paneled as such with Itachi destroying it. Due to this being the most likely assumption, due to akams razor you would typically dismiss the idea. Now potency being different does make sense generally; in Itachi’s case though, we know that more would inherently allude to more chakra due to the susanoo being a physical manifestation of chakra so more beads = more chakra. The Frog Song stuff is wrong, the third databook’s mini section on it doesn’t include the word type at all. Then for the rinnegan to MS that’s more conjectural than anything else
edo nagato was way stronger than alive nagato when he had the red hair idk why you even mentioned that it just hurt your case. nagato went from being completely immobile and crippled to being able to physically blitz and subdue kcm naruto and v2 bee due to the amount of chakra he absorbed
Yo! Bringing up that theory that new horizons made a video on, Nice.
Overall, a fantastic video.
But that smoke did get in the way of Nagito’s vision. But what you said about Itachi Being faster than him is super true, so it doesn’t change too much.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Congratulations on hitting 1k dude! This was awesome I really love videos like this! Nice one🔥
Thank you Very much my Man!
Narrative wise Itachi and pain are on about the same level. But Itachi is a one on one fighter so he would get overwhelmed by the six paths of pain. It would be a good fight but six VS one would be very overwhelming for Itachi because all his attacks are crazy good but also mostly hit one person at a time. I think Itachi vs nagato would be much closer. If Itachi gets to hit nagato with a one hit shot he is done for. Which makes the fight probably go to Itachi’s favor. I think six paths of pain vs Itachi would be 8/10 for pain and itachi vs nagato would be 7/10 for itachi
W video very in-depth definitely earned a sub ❤
I’ve always thought itachi was implied to be stronger but a few years back pain being stronger was the general consensus. As I looked into it more I’ve felt that itachi had better arguments and many people downplay his strength severely saying things like he would lose to jiraiya (worst argument ever) or he’s below sannin or he lost to a pre ms Sasuke just things that make me feel like they haven’t even seen the shows. Or even arguments that can be substantiated and they just say because they heard people say it but have no idea why. I’m glad more people are starting to agree that itachi wins i lean itachi a little more than most believing it’s a mid -high diff while many people say it’s extreme diff. This take could get me in the itachi glazer tier but I believe itachi is the strongest in the akatsuki (during his lifetime) but that’s another topic
Also w for someone who actually gives itachi respect like the stamina thing and someone actually giving credit to itachi for fighting orochimaru whole FULLY 100% blind. His eyes as u said we’re whited out and he said “judging by the feel of it” just little things like this show you know what you’re talking about and actually put in effort to videos. This really is such a great channel with such high effort and reminds me of what I wanted to do to start a channel a few years back. Also have you considered the yata mirror as being Omni directional I was curious to your thoughts on that? My base being that it could deflect all attacks and it clearly expanded when orochimaru attacked it. It also could’ve not even been reactionary but an automatic response to an attack that plus the statements lead me to believe I think six made a video on it where he goes much more in depth
This video really is impressive doing research on eyes and even hypothesized Wgat illness itachi has and connected it to the rain scene for itachi giving it multiple meanings
Awesome, thank you!
So a few things here
17:00
The Itachi vs Obito section does make it seem like Obito thought fighting Itachi would be too troublesome/ not worth it. But those statements aren’t really conclusive that Obito would just up and lose to Itachi.
18:08
Road to Ninja starts out with Konoha 11 vs All of the Akatsuki (which are alive at the same time for whatever reason.) This movie is super noncanon. And even if it was, using it to suspect Itachi could Amateratsu Obito when this is the same Obito that can press FKS Sasuke (who has a better Amateratsu) is reaching too hard. And in the canon, Obito Kamuid Itachi’s amateratsu.
27:33
Itachi is not sick during his Reanimation. It’s not his cells that are forced onto the sacrifice during reanimation. Instead it’s his soul and chakra. I understand you think it’s the case because Itachi can use his sharingan and they all have their normal hair color, but it’s not. Chakra/souls in Naruto work weird and don’t require actual DNA to inherit traits. Look at DMS Kakashi getting his sharingan from Obito. I can safely say this is just properties of the jutsu. And Itachi is revived to resemble what he was like moments prior to his death. This is why Nagato has white hair when he gets revived. It wouldn’t make any sense for Itachi to be revived in the state he was in a week or 2 before his death lol. It’s safe to say he just didn’t have the illness.
its more consistent for itachi to be summoned from some unknown time before his death, otherwise madara wouldnt be young and hiruzen wouldnt be able to make several clones(even though his chakra is constantly refreshing, he still should have something similar to his alive self as a maximum chakra reserve and he could barely survive making 2 vs oro)
@@AidenB1010 Hiruzen’s chakra didn’t decrease or increase as Edo. He just had an old body when he was alive. Remember it’s physical and mental energy that makes chakra, so it makes sense for old age to effect his use of chakra. Also Old Madara had his body tweaked to become young before the Edo body for him was made.
Dude diva path was battling and dodging 8 tails Naruto, he’s gonna clap a prime alive full powered itachi(which we never saw)?
No, that was Six .. and he Struggled.
@@jpisback he outsped and ran him around like a dog...
@@TheLDARtist in the anime. not in the manga, he was ust getting tossed around and the whole fight was way shorter
ps itachi would have stomped eight tails naruto, which was breaking out of his chibaku tensei and pain couldnt do anything
@@plavsk ye you mean 6 tails right? pain outsped and dog walked in both.
@@TheLDARtist no he didnt.
pls inform yourself
I've watched this video a few times and it makes me so happy to see more creators stop wanking pain to unreasonable degrees and scaling itachi properly
Just found your channel today, already watched a ton of your content. You're making some straight fire stuff my dude, keep up the good work and I'm excited to see your channel grow and improve even more.
Just don't become toxic 😹 so many anime UA-camrs are toxic assholes and it makes watching their content nearly impossible if you're not a salt lord lol
Trust me I’m pretty laid back, I hate this community and hope it becomes a more positive space and I appreciate that, hope to be at the top one day
i feel like we leaving out alot of context with itachi vs edo nagato for one he didnt blitz him its pretty clear he snuck him thats why he injured the summons eyes forest for a sneak attack logistically it also makes 0 sense second i think its wild to imply he could eal with the actual pain bodies vision the same way once again hes able to hide in that area the only reason he could do that iss because he was able to postion himself in a way the summons couldnt see him something he couldnt do if all the pains were just looking straight at him also he wasnt actively controlling the summons its incredibly unlikely the pains who could react to rasenshuriken cant react to kunai that they can see coming
You speaking facts!!!! About time somebody knows how much of a threat Itachi is!!!!
‘They don’t know the Truth’
Itachi was literally 21 when he died. Yall don’t understand how fresh he was on that world. Kisimito just had to make sasuke the cool talented character older brother to set up sasuke. Itachi himself should be easily defeatable kishimoto just writes the right ppl for itachi to fight agaisnt or jusr staight up make itachi stronger or weaker depending on plot.
I don't agree and here's my interpretation:
1. It was never implied or stated that Pain was fearful of Itachi or any other Akatsuki member, except Tobi. At best, Tobi projected his fear onto Pain.
2. The author may have clumsily misdirected us (or perchance was it on purpose) but it's clear that the statement 'The strongest man in Akatsuki pursues Naruto' is about Pain since the following chapter is called 'In pursuit of Itachi'. Too misleading otherwise.
3. About their Edo state, Nagato's mobility is highly affected. We don't know how fast he would've been if his legs were functioning normally. No surprise Bee could Lariat GH Nagato.
4. Therefore, Itachi “blitzing” Nagato isn't surprising. Moreover, Nagato was preoccupied by Killer Bee and Naruto. Let's also remember that Nagato was controlled by Kabuto and he sabotaged him by his will power to diminish his reaction speed.
5. Itachi rescuing Naruto and Bee isn't speed blitz at all. Itachi kinda came out of nowhere. It's more of a surprise blitz than a pure upfront speed blitz, which he didn't do to Nagato at any point of time. He always used Nagato being distracted by Naruto and Bee to hide from his perception and attack him by surprise. So in my opinion, it's almost like saying Konohamaru is faster than Jigokudō because he lands a Rasengan.
6. Itachi destroyed Nagato's attraction core but with Bee's and Naruto's best attacks. It's too speculative to think he could've destroyed the entire core by himself because he threw “only” three and not four Yasaka beads.
7. Tendō kept pace with 6 tails Naruto who's arguably above KCM1's speed. He was more pushed around by 6t Naruto's ferocity than his speed. I would argue that SM Naruto has a faster reaction speed than KCM1 that Pain was able to keep pace with comfortably. So personally, I think Pain (or at least only Tendō) and Alive/Edo Itachi aren't that far away from each other speed wise.
8. Hiruzen has his old properties, but he clearly doesn't have the same stamina or general speed as when he fought Orochimaru. If it was the case, he would be unable to keep pace with the battlefield's higher cast. Alive, he was almost struggling to keep pace with heavily nerfed Hashirama and Tobirama. So I don't think Itachi had his illness. Also, if it was the case, he would've just been incapable of moving as soon as he was reanimated. It doesn't bring you to your prime, but it does improve your general state, so possibly freezing to improving your health condition. It doesn't reform your mental state, though. Plus, if his disease affected him, he would've at least spit his guts out considering how many times he used his MS. The blood dripping from his eyes due to Amaterasu is nothing but a body reaction. It doesn't mean he is still sick.
¿? Since Yata Mirror protects from incoming attacks, doesn't Banshō Ten'in work? Since it's a withdrawing attack, maybe it could... I don't know, I just thought about that.
Great video nonetheless!
I don’t really disagree with these points but I could see your perspective
Great video at first when there was topics like Itachi vs Pain I've always said Pain wins but after doing a deep analysis my opinion changed. However I do think that Edo Nagato is stronger than Edo itachi based on what Kabuto said About Nagato being his second strongest summon and breaking down the fight between the two.
So unironically enough that statement is only In the game continuity and Kabuto admits he was wrong about Itachi’s ability
Then Kabuto changed his mind after Itachi sealed Kabuto.
@@Virhtue he underestimated itachi but the content of that was when he broke out of Kabutos control
He literally says "you clearly are different from the rest." Unless you really wanna use that as an argument go ahead but when you do you are saying that he's above Madara which people would disagree on which is commonsense.
@@Morislavelle and then what did he do??!?!? (He blitzed and one shot the animal summons and Nagato)
You know what it’s actually really refreshing to see someone actually take all of the objective facts and line them out to make a logical debate and I genuinely agree with virtually every point you make and you actually make a very good point about tsukyomi going through the chakra link to nagato I never actually considered that
(My only gripe is I think Itachi scales slightly higher than EMS Sasuke as his edo form is categorically weaker than his living form yet edo Itachi still outperformed sasuke by a BIG margin against kabuto)
another point I would like to make about Itachi is Tsukyomi actually works on multiple beings at once, as in the Itachi shinden novel (this is cannon btw) Itachi used Tsukyomi on the aburame that poisoned shisui but instead of using it on him he used it on the millions on bugs inside of the aburame to lock him in place so if Itachi can Tsukyomi on millions of sentient beings (Albeit bugs being less complex) I reckon he could use it on say 5-6 people at once… food for thought?
Either way you have a subscriber with me much better video that what some of the other naruto creators did keep it up man 👍🏻
I was not expecting to learn Itachi had aids when I clicked on this video
Now you know
This channel is like Six 2.0 and it’s fuckin awesome keep it up
no I also believe itachi wanted to teach naruto about teamwork, itachi throws 3 instead of 4 susanoo ring attacks used against kabuto so he wasn t using his strongest attack in that instance to destroy chibacu tensei , his attack is contributing to 1/3 or 33% , his strongest attack will be 40% so attacking just twice 80% will be enough to neutralize chibacu tensei since 100% was enough to pulverize chibacu tensei completely so overkill and itachi can attack twice and time the attacks since he can time and calculate 8 flying kunai in the air and change their trajectory at the same time before he hit the ground in 0.1 sec and chibacu tensei s absorbtion is very slow and because is gravity works the best with big things like 9 tails not a small zero weight itachi, even if it gives him extra 5 seconds it will be more then enough I will argue he can throw more then 2 attacks in that timeframe +bonus is in character to itachi to spam attack😂Hitachi can alone destroy chibacu tensei very easily I may add
Finally someone who gets it
Is just so much more consistent to say Itachi over pain than the antithesis
Itachi didn’t even blitz the fastest version of nagato, nagato wasn’t using the asura path rocket boosters, itachi can’t see chameleon so that is also a good win con. I feel you downplayed chibaku Tensei because pain states he’d make it bigger once he sees the 8tails granted when sage Naruto falls out he’s lets it dissapate but you could chalk it down to not wanting to kill Naruto. We no pain sandbagged that whole fight. The ororchimaru feat isn’t even that impressive for two reasons. One we already know that base to base itachi is stronger that orochimaru as well as the orochimaru that was brought back wasn’t even at full power he should’ve been sick just as he was vs sasuke so these are both 2 sick fighters in their higher forms. Secondly itachi blitzing a near fearless hydra has no merit. We know if pain gets tagged with tblade he should be able to summon/ reverse summon pains out of it because we see oro get summoned from curse mark even tho he was sealed. Itachi has no answer for all the summons out all at once and this is how pain fights common refutal is Amaterasu but if he uses 2-3 of those it should greatly expend his chakra. Amaterasu being itachis strongest jutsu doesn’t even make sense because that’s not what he used vs nagato. Also even if you want to grant itachi speed advantage all the summons plus 6 eyes and king of hell should make the blitz difference. You failed to mention what happens if itachi gets smoked by a rod it’s literally gg if he gets touched with 1. Good video nun the less😏
Yeah his videos be aight, he just be a lil bias sometimes and it shows. You stated things perfectly, Itachi is getting overwhelmed by all summons/paths of pain. Pain isn’t just going to sit there and let Itachi do his thing.
We’ve never seen Pain take an opportunity seriously. He fought the leaf only for intel and he only wanted to capture Naruto. So he was holding back and heavily fatigued once Naruto arrived. So all his paths had to protect Deva path in formation.
If Pain starts the fight off bloodlusted, it’s going to be similar to how Nagato cooked Bee & Naruto. Once all the paths start using their abilities at the same time, Itachi won’t have enough chakra or time to counter all Pains jutsu.
@@ExoticZahgood points especially the nagato part you brought up. Blood lusted pain blitzs and tags with rods for a gg
Oh no I forgot, he blitzed a nagato with Killer bee’s v2 chakra
Can you show an instance where rinneagan absorption gives chakra above the absorber chakra reserves. All we see is his hair go back to red meaning his life force is rejuvenated or whatever. We see him absorb a rasengan from jiraiya and he doesn’t seem to just one shot blitz him after like he did bee and Naruto??
@@brxyn3937 don’t try to debate me😭 that’s a blatant strawman, my argument alone never entailed that presupposition. Also quantity doesn’t mean > we also know that chakra has certain properties and tailed beast chakra is implied to be the most potent from Bee and Kisame. You also have to realize at best you get Nagato is at his peak and Itachi is suppressed and holding back😭
funny… I think one average push from Pain and Itachi is lying on the ground with a broken neck. Don’t forget Itachi can’t fly. Everyone forgets that Itachi just human. For Pain to kill him is not a big difference like he launched Hinata into the sky. In other hand Nagato has 6 bodies that will launch smth into Itachi even with broken body(ashura path when kakashi saved chodgi)
pain wins with 6 paths, but loses single body
Finally 🔥 🔥 🔥
Tell me about it, that upload speed way to long😂😂😂
Nagato is immobilezed and lacks speed so people underestimates pain speeds too. He was able speeed blits s.m naruto,all 3 frog summons,6 tails naruto etc.. he was also able to Dodge twin lion fist attacks easily against hinata in close combat. I don't think itachi is faster than pain. The whole leaf shinobi's knews pain abilities but they couldn't do anything against him. Pain has his own ways in combat. Downplaying him isn't good.
He's faster than Itachi point blank period. Itachi isn't superhuman he's just on the high upper echelon of ninjas in terms of speed. The biggest cpomparison people use to justify Itachi having crazy speed feats is when he's fighting KCM naruto with taijutsu. This argument doesn't work because Naruto obviously wasn't going at full speed because Itachi and him were having a conversation, he was getting intel.
@@silaswells6706how you gonna say itachi isnt superhuman when he handled kcm naruto and bee at the same time with just his base sharingan and with his ms he had to save ems sasuke ,who fought at an even pace with kcm2 naruto in the war, from kabuto several times and easily tagged kabuto with the totsuka blade
@@AidenB1010firstly Itachi didn't handle both Naruto and Bee, that was Nagato
Itachi fought them individually and was evenly matched
Nagato not only blitzed and beat both KCM Naruto and Bee at the same time but also almost killed them as well if Itachi didn't sneak attacked and saved them
And note that was a fatigued Naruto who was not even going all out
Secondly, EMS Sasuke is not equal to KCM 2 Naruto, Sasuke himself admitted inferiority to him and that was a Sasuke amped with Naruto's chakra and Jugo's curse mark
Lastly Itachi never tagged Kabuto with the totsuka blade
Itachi only ever used the totsuka blade twice, once against Orochimaru and second time to seal Nagato
There’s one small point I disagree with, which is the statement that the Yata Mirror is omnidirectional. Swagkage has mentioned that Itachi is shown moving it to confront an oncoming attach, which would imply that it is not omnidirectional. If we factor is subscriber scaling, that would give the W to Swagkage.
A theory i like that explains itachis "sickness" is that time experienced in tsukiyomi is directly a trade off of itachis own life force.
Itachi doesnt show signs of sickness until after the massacre when he used his first and longest tsukiyomi of 60 ish years on izumi. In the izumi tsukiyomi itachi and izumi live to be in their late 70s/ early 80s. which the math roughly works out a number similar to the age itachi diead. After that he only uses tsukiyomi for instances of 24-72 hours of dilated time. Also in the fight with hebi sasuke the big use of tsukiyomi is itachi showing sasuke how to get ems. Which only last about a few minutes and a few minutes after his final tsukiyomi use he drops dead. Basically the theory would serve itachi with the chakra of an insanely op old man after the massacre.
Yeah I’ve heard this, NCHammer (I believe made it) I will say, this isn’t directly provable, just more of a possibility and still works with my lines of scaling. The second Itachi Shinden novel, after Itachi slaughters the clan it can be implied that he was so depressed and suicidal thag stress was the cause of it. So food for thought regarding when it started and maybe how.
My favorite theory early on in the manga was that itachis tsukiyomi actually was the secret to unlock MS.
He used it on kakashi once then next thing we know kakashi has the MS. Then he has used it on Sasuke a few times who awaken his after the fight. Neither happened instantly more like extended release.
Unfortunately it turns out that wasn't it, but it was great early on when the manga was still new
@@SubZer00fucksgiven that is interesting
This is always a weird debate because we know itachi is almost always sandbagging his fights, but pain has lore and feats for being really strong. When he went up against sm Naruto, we was weakened or chakra drained at this point. So it’s weird but I lean towards pain.
30:30 isn't this whole point just assuming tho? Who's to say the biju bomb didn't carry the overall damage?
Nice video btw, just asking
It’s taking higher forms of assumption due to probability of higher likely hoods, therefore to make an assertive claim on it, as I did, Occam’s razor, would take precedence giving the most likely option being the biju bombs size being suppressed and the beads being suppressed, it would just be an unknown variable therefore claiming one over the others would be erroneous
Right, sure, fair
Peak vid 🗣️
You already know?
I Wish itachi and sasuke got more feats that solidly put them abive powerful people
Just bc nagato pain is stronger than itachi doesn’t mean he can beat him. Minato isn’t one of the strongest characters in the show but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t beat majority of the show
Edo Itachi > Edo Nagato
You talking about raw power..
He dosent beat most😂
@@Virhtueoh nah but edo itachi > pain
@@Virhtueno
Not the point of the video, but...
18:23 Izanagi, not Kamui. Also, I don't think Jiraiya could've really won if all the Paths of Pain were there from the very start. Activating the genjutsu, as well as entering Sage Mode takes quite a lot of time.
Well it’s stated it was Kamui. The third databook says that as much and yeah Pain’s statement is in reference to if they were and it wouldn’t change much bc again how much Pain held back and he was just saying that every path was there, frog song would have beaten them
@@Virhtue i love itachi finally some youtber with a great understanding of the show , u cannot count intelligence as 1point especially when they almost have same strength,how do u quantify Intelligence?again u forgot to mention itachis crow technique of him just dodging attacks by turning into a crow the finger genjutsu and not necessarilyusing susano just him turning into crows like in the kisame fight, u gained a subscriber
Nah.... Pain slams..
Video idea: tsukuyomi vs all domain expansions (don't forget to credit me lol)
💀💀
Average Itachidaras ☕ . Itachi's Genjutsu not gonna work against Pain because they constantly getting chakra from Nagato and Tsukyoumi us useless because Pain's body can't feel Pain and it get breaked in second because Constantly getting chakra..... And Jiraiya's Genjutsu worked because That Genjutsu stated Unbreakable. And Itachi can't see Pain's camelion summon 😂😂😂 Which can provide Pain aa wide vision Gaara's sand is faster then Amatharasu so Pain can see building up chakra and avoid Amatharasu like nothing... Pain Gang bang Itachi...
ts is ass💀💀💀 first off nagato constantly giving chakra to pain doesn’t mean anything since i can argue that itachi would get tsukuyomi off before nagato even realizes and pain not being able to feel pain also doesn’t matter since they can still be killed and we know that tsukuyomi can kill people and itachi most likely can see pain comelion since he has the ms which is stated to see all things in the universe but it’s debatable and gaara sand is not faster than itachi amaterasu💀 if ur referring to sasuke amaterasu, sasuke and itachi amaterasu work differently and nagato literally failed to see itachi building chakra for his amaterasu so what makes u think pain would😭 itachi slams pain
Ty ty someone realizes that itachi can't beat pain and it's not the greatest fight cuz itachi would get washed
@@vaughnjackson6297 pain is not beating itachi bud😭
@@TJJJJ1014 lol pain has a counter for all itachis techniques bud😁
@@vaughnjackson6297 he can’t counter amaterasu he can’t counter tsukuyomi and he can’t counter totsuka blade so wdym
I agree. As a shinobi overall I think Pain is stronger just because of his well-rounded arsenal and if the opponent doesn't have intel it's almost a sure lose fight for them. However, in a direct confrontation Itachi is the hard counter of Pain since from Jiraiya and Pa and Ma's analysis, Pain is clearly weak to genjutsu and Itachi just happens to be the master of genjutsu.
Sound genjustsu bro SOUND not a single Rinnegan user in the franchise of Naruto has ever been put under VISUAL genjustsu hell Sasuke negged infinite tsukyomi because of his rinnegan and was able to fly back down and cover the rest of team 7 so to say tsukyomi a weaker genjustsu would work is disingenuous asf😐
Ocular genjustu doesn’t work on the rennigan
This is impossible to prove
@@Virhtue itachi never even tried to use tsukuyomi against nagato(we all know genjutsu is itachi go too) ..also sasuke was the only one that didn’t get caught in the infinite tsukuyomi not because he just had a susano but because he had the rennigan empowered susano…….those are the only two situations i can even think can be used but they are definitely arguable
@@whoshou74u just basically said he didn’t try it so that means he couldnt
@@shadowuchiha4311 that’s wat I was pointing out genius
@@whoshou74 I think u read my statement wrong.
W video
Thank you!
Itachi is beating pain in a encounter. Itachi is losing to pain in a stand up fight where he has to take down the paths. If you do it like a fighting game he loses, if he gets to learn, disengage, and find nagato pain is likely to lose. Neither of these scenarios is 100% due to the high lethality of the fighters involved.
pain is clearly meant to be the strongest akatsuki he destroys itachi
“Clearly” your reasoning?
Alive Itachi dies of chakra over use or another one of Pains wincons before he defeats all of the paths, that is if he is able to defeat them, let alone find Nagato
Edo itachi will beat Nagato if Nagato cannot go red haired from white haired, but if Nagato gets any Chakra then Itachi is trapped in chibaku tensei as it took him, Naruto and Bee to break that Jutsu, he wouldnt manage by himself.
Rather than pain was holding back I think it's more of that Naruto was on offense while pain was on defense observing Naruto's sage mode comparing it to jiraiya's sage mode (speed, power, movements, abilities ) and waiting for his powers to recover ( pain can't use the shinra tensei for awhile after that Large one )
One of the few youtubers who get it. I agree 100%. However in a 100 fights i thibk itwill be something like 55/45 in itachis favor.
of course you do
@@xxxtimeghostxxx ofcrouse?
@@kaluchiamv9830 what else do you think,does kiba beat sasuke ?
@@xxxtimeghostxxx nah but pain isnt kiba level. youre disrespecting pain.. Just because itachi wins doesnt mean hes trash teir lol.
@@kaluchiamv9830 no i think kiba beats sasuke bro,just because naruto beats kiba i dont think you should disrespect kiba
Itachi isn't even close to Obito..... bro even brought up a movie that isn't even cannon 💀
This might be a weird take but I think itachi gets most of the paths off but will struggle against the deva path, and probably loses
“I can do this all day” ahh upload speed. Peak vid tho 🗣️
Omg fr
Yeah the pain downplay is crazy
i think with chibaku tensei in an open battlefield itachi wouls still press pain alot, but eventually has no counter to chibaku tensei.
as an edo its basically even as itachi gets more buffs from being an edo
We’ve literally seen itachi almost get one shot by nagato, if bee and naruto weren’t there they could not have destroyed the chibaku tensei’s core. Without B and naruto he gets sealed and one shot right then and there. End of discussion. Also, to say itachi was keeping up with KCM naruto is pretty far fetched, naruto wasn’t trying to kill or even hurt itachi while itachis body was going all out against him, naruto was just gathering info, also, when itachi hits nagato with his totsuka blade it’s because he’s completely stationary because kabuto who isn’t even on the battlefield and barely knows how to use his ability took over his brain and movements. Pain washes, I’m sorry, you can disagree and argue but you’re not changing my mind.
Tbh with you there’s not a single fight itachi had to take that pain couldn’t handle just as easy and most pain/nagato fights was just simply him getting dunked on to further plot
Great video. Glad to see someone actually acknowledging that the yata mirror can be omnidirectional.
Itachi profile pic too. We’ve never seen the yata mirror perform such a feat. It can’t cover his entire susanoo
It literally wouldn’t work if it weren’t Omni directional. There are attacks within the series that’s attack from all sides (Haku’s ice senbon) so it would inherently have to be capable of being omnidirectional. People also pretend we didn’t literally watch it change size and shape abundantly on screen against Orochimaru.
@@ExoticZah it quite literally changes size by atleast double against the Hydra, my friend.
Nah, saying that it is omni-directional is a stretch. Anyways, nagato is stronger.
@@forgive.them. why so?
Itachi winning is wild 😂😂
Wildly true!
@@Virhtue nawwwwwww. SM Jiraiya had issues. Itachi has a very slim chance. His only chance is knowing all the secrets behind the Rinnegan, ambushing Nagato and kill him before a fight even starts. But seeing as how Nagato is extremely hard to sneak up on, I don’t see that happening.
I came by after seeing Pain and Itachi swap fight you did with TG. I didn't make it to the end of this video, only about 33 minutes in, for a few reasons. The main one is that I think you missed the mark on your goal stated at the beginning of the video. I just wanted to say I appreciate the effort you put in to it and am interested to see you explore different topics another time.
I had to cover Itachi a lot more bc he isn’t shown near as much😭
Pain slaps fo sho
I don’t know?!?!?!?
This was a damn nearly perfect scaling video. And it’s so funny to see many people hating on ur scaling just because they’re butt hurt from the fact you prefer Itachi. Nowadays you can’t even spell his name without being called an Itachitard. The most funny thing about that is, the exact same people who call you an Itachitard don’t bring up any facts or arguments. Their ignorance lead themselves to a Gen-Jutsu (ironically) where they believe everything what’s logical for them is a fact. Of course Itachi isn’t on White Mask Obito or Madara level but the downplaying this man gets also from NCHammer is absolutely ridiculous!
Idk why this is still a debate
Pain wins hands down he got way too much of an arsenal compared to even a 100% healthy itachi.
This is like comparing ssj gohan to namek frieza
It is if you can understand or find a way to ignore blatant narrative
Na because if yall wana use maximum itachi we gonna use maximum pain
Even edo itachi needed help with edo nagato
@@Virhtue The same narrative which called nagato invincible
I think itachi has a real tough time if he fights like naruto.. open area just head to head not retreating but thats not how itachi rolls. I say he has a hard time bc he doesnt have any cover to launch some strategy.. itachi is smarter and faster than pain but not as powerful.. i think itachi would have an easier time if they were all in a small cage.. he could just blitz and use susaanoo.. if its open area pain takes it.. but if its in the rain village or the forest or mountains.. itachi takes it.. edit: ill also add that tsykunomi probably will work on the diva or nagato bc its not his rinnegan and the sharingan has way more genjutsu feats than the rinnegan does and itachi is of uchiha blood so his do jutsu is probably superior in that way.. plus itachi can fight outside of his susanoo and use his crows like pain does and give himself a broader range of vision
I think Itachi will need izanagi to be able to win against all 6 paths together. I see itachi having a counter to all of pains abilities except for chibaku tensei. This is where I'll see Itachi needing izanagi. Than once he uses it. He'll pull out totsuka blade and gg pain extreme diff..
Sure but we know he could just yasaka head the CT
He literally doesnt havw a counter to shit. Wtd
Bro he pulling out that blade after the second pain what u on?
@@Virhtue The same yasaka beads which when used by madara cant even dmg tsunade
W 🔥
You already know!
Amazing video! Always knew my Goat 🐐 Itachi of the Sharingan would win.
It’s close though for sure
I don’t believe pain is as fast as sage naruto, in there hand to hand skirmish sage naruto whoooped him and they even went base to base for a minute and i know base naruto cant go fist to fist with itachi.
Fax
I completely agree.
Facts
genjutsu wouldn't work on pain since rinnegan is a stronger dojutsu and pain rods gives him the ability to disrupt chakra flow. also all mightly push is said to negate ninjutsu so he can get rid of the susano and all those tools.
obito just out right says in the manga that hebi sasuke sharingan is stronger than itachi sharingan.
as far as the itachi blitzing nagato its explained by kabuto that it wasnt that itachi was to fast the issue was that nagato had problems moving out the way due to his legs and was hoping the added field of vision would help mitigate that so no itachi is not a blitz level above kcm naruto.
also there is difference between the yasaka beads and just regular beads in terms of output. judging from the scale of damage they to those rocks in the cave they wouldnt be able to disrupt the chibaku tensei the way it did with nagato.
The rinnegan being immune to occular genjutsu is actually a myth😧…
The tools are sacred matchless weapons and have better statements implying them to be above Shinra Tensei and what is there to push, they lack mass.
Its explained by Kabuto “Itachi Uchiha is clearly different”
Rinnegan was said to be immune to non sound bas genjutsu. And they arent nagato so it’s worthless. Like when ibuki caught one of the pains. It would just be a waste for itachi.
I think Itachi is gonna win because he’s like a super genius and I think he is above SM Naruto in terms of strength, tho Nagato has tons of Chakra and is very durable, he fought the entire village and destroyed it, won against SM Naruto, and won against 6 tails Naruto and still continued fighting after that, he is a beast when it comes to Chakra reserves and durability
tbh it could go either way but i see itachi most likely winning but very extreme diff
1st hokage,Madara,Naruto,Sasuke,Guy,Obito only characters that would beat itachi nobody else
W
Minato & Kakashi as well
How can you be basically tobirama and not be racist against the Uchiha?
Got you. Everything itachi has works in this matchup. Nothing pain has works. Great video
Appreciate it
I’m making sense of a lot of points here, but please let’s not use Road to Ninja 18:00 😂 shit is nowhere near canon.
Kishimoto is the credited writer of the movie🤭
@@Virhtue Doesn’t line up with the official timeline or events in any way. Saying it’s canon just cuz of that is crazy.
itachi would figure out their weakness easily like in the nagato vs itachi naruto bee fight but he wont have the power to destroy planetory devastation alone and defend himself against almighty push its simply too strong he can defeat every pain except for tendo pain hes too strong
as for the genjutsu nah i doubt it would work for one its more implies hes specifically weak to auditory genjutsu as he should be naturally resistant to visual genjutsu those eyes are literally madaras second the chakra rods send chakra from nagato to the pains but it isnt a 2 way street they are receivers not transmitters so even if they are caught in the genjutsu it shouldnt affect as the chalra wouldnt trace back nagato third its very unlikely he was effected based on how qyuckly the other paths got there u mean to tell me in the few seconds between when jiraiya took out the 3 he was fighting nagato was released from the jutsu then immediately sent all 3 remaining pains and reached him immediately makes little sense bare minumin thats a crazy speed feat for pain on the topic of speed they should be comparable as naruto notes that his SM is faster than kcm AND the kcm naruto who fought itachi was fatigued overall im taking pain hell prolly lose some bodies but worst case its just diva and diva would win through simmilar stats and the fact his abilites work well against him amaterasu should honestly be able to dodge it aswell as he scales to sm naruto and a clone naruto scaled to a raikage in speed
if you're gonna goon google definitions, at least use the original kanji bruh
W take. You know it's a good argument when the defending comments are pure copium 🤣🤣.
Is it a coincidence that the best argued analysis has Itachi winning? I think not.
Though Obito used Izanagi, not Kamui to escape Amaterasu.
It even says it in the databook: The mystery of his power. What's most puzzling is how Madara survived. How did Madara survive? Izanagi.
Also KCM2 Naruto would no diff alive Minato.
Yeah exactly. For the Kamui, it just works easier and it’s more in character for Obito and Izanagi was introduced until after databook three ended
@@Virhtue I don't Obito had a choice and had to use Izanagi at that point.
@@marwyn8152 kamui works passively
@@Virhtue By then it was too late. The flames had propagated throughout his torso and chemically bonded with his flesh, and he could no longer separately phase his body without taking the flames with him. It's the same way he can't just phase through Torune's bugs. Besides, if he phased through it, it would have spread through the cave.
Kamui leaves far too many questions unanswered. Izanagi provides a clean solution.
Some of the scaling here is biased😂 i dont care much about the itachi vs pain but the mini vs battles throughout this video very biased.Virhtue I see you can have good reasoning eg. the edo tensei bleeding and being too bloody for young viewers but neglect good reasoning on other points😂 eg. Saying pain and itachi is faster than sm jiraya or kcm naruto which is not the case why? Because itachi and pain are able to react to people faster than themselves because of doujutsu and not because of being faster.
No, Pain is above Jiraiya due to pure physicality. Pain is faster than Six Tails, that’s shown and we never saw him against the Eught so Pain’s speed has to be based off narrative. Same goes for Itachi, he blatantly scales above. What about that is bias. If you claim “you talked more about Itachi” that’s just because again Pain’s alive showings on screen are better than Itachi’s and are less niche.
@@Virhtue that's tendo pain bro the other 5 bodies can't move at that speed.And he moves that fast because of his ability
@@Virhtue only tendo pain is above jiraya(base)
@@vaughnjackson6297 interesting thought and I don’t really disagree, Jiraiya in Sage Mode was confident in taking them one on one (when Pain wasn’t trying to Kill Jiraiya) and we see that the Human path is above or high end relative to Sage Jiraiya with the other paths out so I think the other paths could be above Base Jiraiya
@@Virhtue in speed but not power and strength(single pain bodies vs jiraya base)
This bias for itachi is insane you downplayed that whole chibaku tensei part kuz itachi by himself is never getting out of one of those things and he absolutely has 0 counters for it… the Amaterasu literally never did damage to any real person ever and it takes 2 days to travel and pain has a path that could absorb or repel it but ig that’s not an option… pain could use rinnegan rods and if itachi catches the whiff of one it’s up for him… If a base sharingan could break out of tsukyomi there shouldn’t even be a talk about a superior dojutsu like the rinne just not being affected or breaking it immediately because to control 6 pains…one needs immaculate chakra control and all the pains literally have genjutsu blockers… and bro has cancer…you think he’s winning a 6v1 smh he has a few uses of each of his jutsu and he might just die after that or use up the rest of whatever he has left and pain does him just like Jiraiya…itachi was written with potential but the fact that he literally had the sickness destroys everything because as I said 6v1…few uses of each jutsu…and pain literally overpowers him unless he uses his Susano’o and that half ass Susano’o is going in a chibaku tensei itachi does have wings cons but realistically they’re a lot slimmer🤝
Good vid, however i have some disagreements. I'll be up front my takes:
Sick itachi vs pain in konoha: pain wins
Alive full health itachi vs rain pain: itachi wins
Edo v edo: pain wins
Alive prime for both: pain wins.
I'll explain my reasoning by trying to counter some of your points. The first being that itachi can handle chibaku tensei using the beads cuz he output a third of the force to destroy one as an edo. For starters he didn't destroy the fully formed planetoid or burst through it like 8 tails naruto did, he destroyed the core which in the panel you can see is still exposed. Secondly i believe it's disingenuous to say he contributed a third of the ap to perform that feat. The three way panel could give such impression but using the 8 tails biju bomb and kcm 1 naruto's rasenshuriken we know the rasenshuriken is weaker than bee's biju bomb. This is cuz after he used a rasenshuriken on the 3rd raikage and it was ineffective he was willing to try using a biju bomb (even though we he was unable to make it). Additionally bee's biju bomb was comparable to kuramas so unless ur implying that kcm 1 rasenshuriken is as strong as kuramas biju bomb i don't think taking that panel as all three attacks contributed evenly to the destruction of the sphere.
Secondly the blitz arguments for edo itachi vs edo nagato always seem like people don't pick up the context of the scene. Itachi "blitzes" nagato twice. The first is after he blinds nagatos summons and then blindsides him while he's dealing with bee and naruto. It's obvious he was occupied and itachi caught him by suprise. It'd be like saying everytime someone suckerpunched another person they blitzed that person. It's more than fair to assume that a nagato fully focused or even a bit more focused could put up a counter attack similar to what nagato did when bee charged him while he was handling kcm 1 naruto. Essentially the only was this argument would make sense would be saying that the battle starts, nagato brings out his summons, starts looking at the dirt while itachi blinds his summons and suprise attacks him.
The second whoch has more validity is itachi using the totska blade to seal nagato. The smoke as we see adds hinderance to nagato. I disagree with your assertion that the Rinnegan can see right through the smoke like the byakugan or smth. Your argument being that pain saw jiraiya through the smoke and blocked his punch. However, that could be explained as one of the pains outside the smoke noticing jiraiya's trajectory aa he launched into the smoke for an attack. Thus is more consistent as when naruto used a smoke assisted attack on the animal path, it was completely blind and unable to see especially as the pains outside the smoke were obstructed as the animal path was lured into gammabuntas mouth while in the smoke. That said, it would be disingenuous to say the smoke covered everything, as there was some space between the smoke and nagato. Nonetheless itachi was able to land the attack on nagato and it shows some level of speed superiority. That said my problem comes with the blitz connotation that people use regarding that scene. If we were to follow that standard then anytime anyone landed an attack on someone they would have blitzed said person. Using an example, we would have to then say that naruto blitzed kakuzu when he landed the rasenshuriken. Or would we say that kabuto blitzed itachi when he cut him in half?
Now some other counterpoints. Nagato can absorb amaterasu without hurting himself. I believe kaguya did the same to sasuke's amaterasu and functionally, it should work the same way. Additionally, arguing that itachi was sick as an edo doesn't make sense even using your logic in thw video. We know this as itachi was consistently coughing and basically blind right before death. U hypothesize that edo tensei ressurrects u right at the moment of your death similar to how hiruzen was ressurected as an old man. However, it's shown or at least implied that this is done without any of the flaws or ilnesses one had at death as edo hiruzen was able to use 4 shadow clones while he could only muster two while alive. Itachi did not have an illness debuff as an edo and he also got a pseudo buff of basically having an ems as an edo. Sure he bled while using amaterasu but he never experienced any of the pains orshortcomings of the ms like the pain of using the susano or going blind from overuse. I'd go so far as to presume edos have a dulled if not muted sense of pain as they take fatal or life threatening attacks and walk them off while living characters suffer greatly from said attacks even if they survive them. Take the use of amaterasu on edo nagato compared to how bee reacted to being engulfed by amaterasu. So in all edo itachi similar to edo madar got buffs and debuffs from being an edo .
Additionally, i am undecided on how i think tsukoyomi affects the Rinnegan. But safe to say, pain at the very least should know genjutsu is itachi's specialty and know not to look him in the eye. Additionally you could use the chakra potency/nullification argument to substantiate that any non tsukoyomi genjutsu from itachi wouldn't work on nagato. The potency argument is that having greater chakra reserves prevents you from being put under genjutsu similar to how ms sasuke couldn't genjutsu the 4th raikage but madara could. I believe everyone should be in agreement that nagato should have notably more chakra than itachi.
All in all, using those claims, and counterclaims i made to sone of your arguments i belive the matchuos would go how i initially stated. Thanks
Spot on 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I personally disagree, but I see where you are coming from. I agree that itachi beats pain High diff. But I personally think edo naguto beats edo itachi high diff
Hmm that’s understandable I suppose
If they figt Itachi doesn't even get close to Nagato.He would probably escape not to die at the end.
Itachi scales to ems sasuke who is way stronger than sage naruto end of debate
I know you are a itachi fan but please in front of NAGATO 😂
He blitzes and one shots, like he already did
Honesty i got sick itachi
This is busllshit😂
Sasuke was holding his own against Itachi...And killed him. And Sasuke would just be bodied by kakashi. And pain literally killed kakashi. Shinra tensei itachi and he's dead
Did you miss the part where Obito told Sasuke that if Itachi wanted him dead, he could've done so at any point in their fight?
Sasuke was not competitive with Itachi. Itachi was sandbagging hard to run Sasuke out of chakra.
@@ShadowFiend777itachi literally went to obito for help to kill the anbu. Kishimoto loves itachi. But obito shoule be 10x better in every category than itachi. I hate this 21 year is better than every ninja and non other random ninja wven comes close yall don’t find that lame or weird..the average jonin is 30 years old. With about 500-1000 missions completed knows 2-3 natures..etc..itachi existence makes it hard to believe thr alliance struggle with madara..not even one ninja aged 12- 75 were even similar yo itachi. Itachi was 17-18 in part 1..why tf arent all ninjas this dangerous or at least jonins? Kishimoto gave this nigga the energy every jonin+ ninjas should have. Madara wouldn’t have one shot itachi if he was in that crowd. Its mfs alove with tripple the time itachi had and are still soooo much weaker while being ACTIVE NINJAS.
Itachi shouldnt have been any stronger than sasuke. Itachi stops training in general at age 13-14. But can jusr capture tailed beast and “beat” pain. Hes the worst written character ever istg. Like genin naruto regular defeated chunins..but itachi exist? Likw shouldnt most ninjas be itachis?
Like i understand itachi is a prodigy. But kakashi a REALLL prodigy makes itachi look imaginary. Kakashi has the age, known experience (being in war,anbu,then a leaf jonin he has history of being a ninja so his skills make sense hes seen alot) the attitude. And even with that he rarely wins against the antagonist. Itachi has has no weaknesses and is essentially perfect. Basically getting the level of power/experience hed have at 30+ at age 16-18.
@@someweirdguyi like how this entire essay is just yapping about how itachi being so ridiculously powerful just upsets the power scale and doesnt provide any actual reasoning. besides its explained that itachi was a generational prodigy that had never been seen in any village, at 5 years old before even attending the ninja academy he had to save his JONIN mother from debris and was implied to use the same chakra amplificiatioj technique as sakura and tsunade. at 8 years old he resists obitos genjutsu and awakens his 2 tomoe sharingan despite never even having the 1 tomoe. everything about itachi as a talent is an unrivaled fluke that danzo stated comes once every century or every few generations, i dont know why youre mad other people wouldnt be as strong as he was at his young age
Pain one shots with planetary devastation
Huge Virhtue L
W* what’s your contention
It’s the same case with itachi and nagato
The Rinnegan cant see through smoke, thats exactly how Naruto duped the preta path with the fake Rasenshuriken.
It can, that’s shown
Smoke n dust isn't the same bro.
It can see through smoke but not dust
Itachi vs 6 pain is literally unfair because basho tenin and absorb chackra of pain
Nah
Sannin Level three Tomoe genjutsu >
Tsukuyomi >
Amaterasu, the strongest physical attack >
Totsuka Blade >
Yasaka Beads, able to bomb 33% of CT >
Yata Mirror, able to reflect anything ever >
Susanoo >
Izanagi >
Izanami >
@@Virhtue pain have the evolution of sharigan the rinegan > can absorb chakra > he win vs the kyubi and only the plot armor make naruto win > destroy a village easy> izanami and izanagi is 1 use and they are literally nerf itachi > pain have all counter for itachi
@@Virhtue and amateratsu literally never kill anybody even a random samurai survive amateratsu
Idk why this is a debate. Pains way stronger than itachi . Itachi isn't beating the whole leef village , sage naruto 5 times hinata , sage creatures & the 8th tails. Let alone When he's fatigued
Yeah Pain has better stamina but nobody there can touch Itachi in a one on one
But the thing is Itachi is beating everyone you just named in a fight so that’s not really a good argument
@Soular248 itachi is not beating all of then in a single go. If you think that idk what to tell you. He couldn't beat the leaf village by himself. He'd run out of stamina l, Chakra & go blind .same as if he fought pain . Pains a 10 itachis an 8
@@joshuacanny4858 I’m not saying he’s just gonna walk up and solo the leaf village like Pain because he don’t fight like that. But he would beat everyone that Pain beat in a 1v1 so that’s not a good argument. You just saying he’ll run out of stamina but he has a bunch of one shot abilities that can quickly deal with people before he runs out of stamina. Plus his chakra reserves are better than what most people give him credit for, and he’s faster than Pain and smarter
BANANA
i disagree with the arguments that itachis sickness is why he’s going blind
in the kage summit we see sasuke while slowly advancing his MS getting stronger and stronger he starts getting blind with worse perception the more he uses his abilities so i see no reason why the same wouldn’t apply to itachi using his abilities over the years while going on missions so edo itachi would be stronger and it wouldn’t be to far fetched to say faster aswell depending on what your interpretation of the sickness is but bare minimum it had an effect on his body so unless this has been debunked before, i don’t see whats wrong with saying he was slower while alive otherwise it makes the arguments for hebi sasuke and deidara being at KCM1 levels of speed alot more valid
and ik he was holding back against sasuke just enough to rid him of orochimaru but i still dont see why that would include holding back speed wise just like how people say pain was holding back against kakashi when he dodged his kick or when people say minato was holding back against obito when he pulled up behind him, both speed wise ofc
I never said that, he went blind because his overuse of MS whilst being so sick