GothamChess Drama Explained by GM Ben Finegold
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 жов 2023
- Check out Ben's Chessable courses here! www.chessable.com/author/BenF... chat, did I do the thumbnail right? - Ben's Editor
Clip with Ben [10-28-2023]
If you're interested in sponsoring a lecture of your choice, email Karen at karen@atlchessclub.com
Signup or gift a chess.com Premium membership to get access to their lessons, remove ads, improve your chess, AND help Ben at the same time!! Upgrade your chess.com membership or join! - go.chess.com/finegold.
Buy Merch today! ccscatlmerch.com/
Watch live at / itsbenandkaren
Donations are appreciated at: streamlabs.com/itsBenandKaren...
Follow me on Twitter: / ben_finegold
#benfinegold #chess #hansniemann #gothamchess - Ігри
I may not agree with Ben on some stuff. But I certainly agree that it’s called Twitter.
I'm not sure that Xitter isn't more deserved
And when you're right, you're right.
Never let people dictate how you use words, especially when they’re correct 🤔👍
unfortunately free speech doesnt exist on shitter. Elon will ban you if you talk bad about dear leader @@GeneralBlorp
I mean, he mocks Levy for being an IM, but at least GC is famous for actually creating chess content (and killing it, honestly), opposite of being famous for allegedly inserting weird objects in his an*s.
That unintentional "inserted" joke was pretty good. Sometimes they just slip in.
It speaks for itself
* waddles away awkardly into the sunset *
To the top with you good sir
Yeah, I can get behind that pun, sure.
Sometimes it slips out
That joke really vibed with me
Its good that Hans doesnt watch Spanish youtubers, because the clickbaits in their videos are like "Hans lost his internet connection" when he lost to caruana XD
Lolol
Someone tell him that
savage
LATAM baby
Fabi is 5-0 against Hans. He must be packing secret Italian wireless-jamming technology.
The GM of taking eight minutes to tell a story that could’ve been told in three.
Yessss.....So much this. I mean Jesus Tap Dancing Christ.....Just get to the point.
It's a lesson in patience. ;-)
@@i_never_asked_for_an_alias They should give him 3 minutes max with a 1 second increment for every concise and salient sentence.
Yes and I like it that way :)
The channel of taking 11 years to not make a single video and then comment on others' videos.
Ben’s videos are 30% analysis and 70% puns, one liners and dad jokes
Barely! Plus tax
that's 130% up my alley
he is the best in his chair
and zero % chess ?
maybe add again
@@victorfinberg8595 you are 127% correct
Luckily for me I've so far been spared the shame of being an IM.
while this is funny and true, Hans is kinda roasting levy, b/c if Levy had to choose between being a GM/ super GM competing/winning tournaments or being the biggest chess UA-camr grinding out clickbait everyday I think it's pretty clear (if you watch his content) what he'd choose.
He'd choose the grinding, right?@@ClemintineCake
@@rasputozenyes
@@ClemintineCakerelax with the psychology.he makes money.he said nothing against hans
@@ClemintineCakemeh at end of the day, Levi has low stress and makes a boatload of money.
If I was a GM who made 1% of the money an IM makes I would be salty too
levy's content creation elo is 3000
Its funny to me how much Hans now tries to stir up drama, all the while claiming others are using him for clout.
so the guy with the most money wins the argument? you are a moron
I mean why should chess skill = money on UA-cam? Gothem doesn’t make money cause he wins tournaments or get payed to show up to events and play chess. He gets payed to sell course aimed at beginners and make videos aimed to inform and entertain beginners. If GMs wanna make big bucks they should consider doing something more lucrative than playing chess(chess is cool, but you can’t be salty cause you’re the worlds best scrabble player, have decided to quit your job, pursue no other career paths, then get salty someone who’s a part time chess player full time UA-camr and chess teacher (with experience as a teacher) makes more bank than you
@verylogicalguy9216
idk maybe he did
or maybe he meant hans won all his games that day
or maybe he meant something else entirely
I think hans assumed he meant cheating...and maybe he did
I don't think it matters that much to my point
hans has been starting social media drama with just about every popular chess streamer lately it seems
I assume it is bc he knows drama drives clicks and he is trying to get his social media more attention so he can make money from that
in which case more power to him, but I find it funny if he thinks that we can't see he is doing basically what he claims others are doing if that is the case
and if that is not what he is doing then it is kinda sad that he is so sensitive and thin skinned
Have Duda and Rapport ever been seen in the same room together? Exactly!
I understand why Ben gets them mixed up
If not, they must be the same person!
Niemann should let his chess speak for itself.
How many times are we going to just say this like its funny
@@TheTastefulThickness Until it stops being funny.
I can confirm you that it's never gonna be unfunny
@@UncleDansVintageVinylsame crowd here that thinks SNL is still funny
@@TheTastefulThickness And you think that you're important.
loved the "No." ending
As sad as it is, it is kind of hard to blame creators for click bate because it actually works.
I don't know if it is available to everyone but my understanding is creators can now do a/b testing on thumbnails.
Actually, I never watched any GothamChess video exactly because they have disgusting clickbait titles.
Gotham also explicitly states in his videos that he uses clickbaity titles and thumbnails to try getting the UA-cam algorithm to pick his videos up more, so he isn’t hiding it or ashamed of it. I think it’s just a part of the UA-cam game
no, it is in fact very easy to blame him for lying in the video title and alluding to the cheating accusations against hans, heavily insinuating that something is suspicious with his games. levy is choosing to further damage hans reputation in order to make money, he's a scumbag
Click bait is cringe and childish, but when a large part of the UA-cam platform is just children you go where the following is. Though he doesn’t outright lie or misrepresent in his titles, it’s just hyperbolic.
chatter - "I think hes jebaiting for clicks"
Ben- "What??"
lol
Levy puts out a clickbait video? How shocking!! He's only done that like every day for the last few years. And it works. Who can really blame an IM for playing the clickbait game and making an absolute KILLING on youtube and streaming? And he's very good at what he does.
If you’re gonna brag about playing perfect games, you can’t be salty when someone says you played a perfect game… it’s clearly hyperbolic and Gothem is a very neutral party in all this (maybe even slightly favoring Hans cause he’s stated before people shouldn’t jump on allegations and pointed out the lack of evidence before)
I don't blame him and I love his content. But idk if any of that makes Hans's statement any less true or biting
@@jamesmoniz5263 I've found Gothem to be annoying and haven't watched him much at all in years but iirc on the few videos I saw on this topic, his stance on the situation was "I'm not saying he cheated *wink wink*" with his comment section all railing on Hans and making anal bead jokes.
TBF to Hans, (I'm not a fan of either of these guys), Gothem is able to sit there with plausible deniability while all his fans read into the titles to accuse him of cheating. The clickbait is just on the line of neutrality to where it could be viewed either way depending on your pov on the whole situation. I can see why Hans is defensive/annoyed simply because Gothem is clearly just playing dumb while stirring the pot with his titles.
@@ooSHINIES Gotham was defending Hans’s rating drop while other people were saying that it proves his cheating
@@ooSHINIESthe internet hates hans cause cause they are either 12 year olds who are hikarus simps, or older and don't like this attitude/personality and its not about the cheating. I don't like Hans personally, just cause he seems to just enjoy being a dick. Though Gotham really doesn't try to egg on the crowed more than an occasional "wow this is a crazy world we live in that an*l beads and chess are somehow related". He's not my favorite chess creator out there, but he's def informative and knows how to dumb how level games down (sometimes a little too much) so amature players can understand and learn from them. When I was newer to chess his vidoes were a lot more insightful than to me now.
Levy trying to say he stayed out of the original drama with Niemann-Carlsson is like me saying I'm a Grand Master in Chess.
I don't think he was claiming he stayed out of it, but that he didn't take a side on whether Niemann cheated, which is true. He certainly had plenty to say on pretty much every detail, but he was always clear that he didn't know if Niemann cheated or not and he did debunk some of the proof-Niemann-cheated claims. I mean, a reasonable person could argue about whether he did a good job, but he was at least trying to remain objective.
Correct @camipco
Levy had probably the most deliberately balanced coverage of that whole event.
Ben: 6 cp loss, hot damn that's virtually impossible!
Hans: YOU LOWLY 2500! HOW DARE YOU INSINUATE I CHEATED
I was about to ask why a 2800 would spend 8 seconds on a forced move until I saw the elo 🗿 truth hurts
I enjoy Levy’s content. I also enjoy Ben’s tremendously - particularly the lectures. Hans is a conceited, but very skilled Chess Master. One makes ones own bed. The world spins on its a great time to be a chess fan
Yea I've never taken a particular side in the whole cheating scandal, but one thing I've always though is Hans is a very conceited and ego driven person. But he does have the skills to back that up.
And no mention of how gothamchess literally is the same way as Hans except hes specifically doing it for clicks and content, or in more concrete terms, money. Ones a gross ewhore and the others a dislikable chess gm. The two are not the same and pretending Hans is worse than levy is retard levels of stupidity.
Hans' ego might well not be any bigger than any other top GM's I reckon, he's just the type who likes to stir shit and gas himself up by talking big out loud
Ahhh I get it now, was wondering why Gotham called the video that. Even though I'd seen the Hans interview I never connected the Gotham title. Thanks for explaining!
Remember the good old days when the biggest scandal in chess was a rogue moderator in Chess Brah's streams?
I see you've forgotten about the shenanigans of Kasparov, Karpov, Korchnoi, the Soviets vs Fischer, etc.
Good lord. Took the dude 3+ minutes to get the story started.
“Insertions a funny word when you’re talking about Hans” 😭😭😭Never change Ben
The clickbait wasn’t an insinuation. Anyone who has watched any Gotham video about Hans could tell Levy has never insinuated. The clickbait was just being over the top as usual. People just need controversy to feel something I guess
Hans was vibrating with rage
"Insertion is a funny word when you're talking about Hans"..............
2:08 You played a6 with the idea of b5+ etc. which is mate in 4. However a6 with the idea of Qc2+ is mate in 2.
i thought he had Qc2 and spent 5 minutes trying to work out what obvious thing i had missed. I shall accept my GM title now thank you.
Man, that's a long-winded way of saying that he missed Qc2#.
Honestly just Hans being touchytouchy. Probably trying to freak Gotham out because of he sued the last guy who accused him of anything.
'insertion is a funny word when you are talking about Hans'
i laughed so audibly, my neighbour literally asked wtf happened
And I literally choked on my potato chip (just for a second but still). Damn that made me laugh 😂
Ben, always there for the drama
I would think that Levy's title was in reference to Hans' statement but putting Hikaru in the thumbnail makes me think different though
7:40 maybe with very slight inaccuracies (2nd/3rd engine choices), rapport could have eeked out some advantage over a few moves
Gotham just rounded up, that's all.
The media calls it "X, formerly known as Twitter" so I just shorten that to "Twitter", especially since like 200 things try to call themselves X, so it's not even something you can copyright. It's a letter of the alphabet, it's very much public domain.
I saw Gotham chess’s video. There was no insinuation at all that Hans cheated.
Just getting bent over the title is super weak sauce.
I think the reason why I return Bens vids is because he isnt trying to be a mega influencer so theres no obnoxious drama content
This is obnoxious drama content this is the only chess UA-camr I follow talking about this lmao I clicked though so
Rapport and duda are the same 😂😂 now thats some chess spiritual stuff who only chess players can acknowledge
So... Hans is wrong, Levy is wrong, Ben is wrong and even this message may be wrong.
But 2 wrongs make a right. Right?
There's no such thing as being wrong anymore. Anything can be explained away.
Hikaru dropped a vid saying 50% of players are cheating and no one got butt hurt. Levy repeated something that Hans said himself in a clever way: Stop the presses; it's chess drama in the streets! lol
Have cheated and are cheating are incredibly incredibly different things. Do you make such huge discrepancies in your daily conversations?
not to take a side because the whole drama is kinda bs, but both are respectable imo
being a world class chess player takes a lot of talent, hard work, and guts
being one of the best chess content creators on youtube (even though its clickbaity) is also very hard work and takes talent
dont let some stupid drama bring down how far both of them have gotten in their respective areas
Gotham chess is irrelevant.
Ok I'll say it, those two things ain't remotely comparable lol
Click bait at the expense of another. Kinda trash
“-and insertion is a funny word when you’re talking about Hans”
I once played a game where i played an aggresive opening that basically once my opponent plays a certain move i gets a massive attack. The moves was pretty easy to find and the game didnt end in a checkmate, it was 11 moves and the moves way quite easy that i pretty much always finds the best moves according to engine apart from the book moves. According to cc it was a 100% accuracy. Literally. Because every move was top engine line. But according to lichess its 11 centipawn loss
6 centipawn loss is mind boggling
What's the name of the opening ?
this video has blown up, nice job Ben!
“Insertion is a funny word when you’re talking about Hans”😭😭😭
Gotham LITERALLY said after, I titled it that for clicks. No real opinion of Gotham, but Hans need to chill and remember the IM he's making fun of is a millionaire because of it.
If you take a UA-cam title so serious, it speaks for itself.
I think both played their respective "brand moves" for their audiences. Gotham made a clickbait video for attention, and Hans raged for attention.
We might be witnessing a Lawyer sac soon.
"Insertion is a funny word when you're talking about Hans" 😂😂😂
bro really needed that 8 min add revanue
Ignoring Twitter is good for your mental health.
What's better clickbait than drama? It's a win win for everyone involved, including you
So I watched the video in question. Hans is projecting. Big time. Levy didn’t do anything of the sort. It was a normal recap like he does for anyone else.
Lol that comment “fabi out here selling world championship prep to 900s”. I got into a Reddit argument with some 1500 lichess player saying he was going to buy the course. Guys blundering pieces and decided what he really needs is to fix his move order in specific subsets of the Spanish.
7:53 I don't usually pick sides, but if I had to pick a side, I'd go with baked potato, fully loaded.
Followed on twitch. Good vid. Can’t wait to see you play.
I know I was not alone in this. Only an idiot would call it X.
The idiot who owns the company, no less.
Hans’ arrogance, for a guy that’s known to cheat, is appalling
I guess being baselessly accused by more than the entire chess community conditions you to think a certain way
Baselessly lol
i clicked the video wanting to see 100% accuracy without any statement or reason, buit once it wasn't the case I close it.
4:08 you made me spit my coffee
Lmao why is that UA-cam ONLY recommends Ben Finegold to me when there is a controversy to talk about😂😂😂
Yep... Again
Within the first minute, the words out of our favorite GM was funny!
I like Neiman but I think he jumped the shark on this one. I watched the Gotham Video, there was no noticeable innuendo or wink wink moments. He covered the Neiman match exactly as he covers all his other matches.
4:09 "insertion is a funny word when you're talking about Hans" LMFAOOO
"Sometimes you swing and you hit a home run"
Levy can make every clickbait title he wants about Magnus playing better than stockfish and Hikaru playing a 100% game and having an estimated elo of 3800 but the moment it’s about Hans everyone is up in arms? Don’t project your own belief that Hans cheated onto Levy.
I always think Ben has the best takes for any Chess Drama stuff
I don't. Even this one is nothing brilliant and his yammering about Magnus retiring from the tournament where the Hans brouhaha started was absolutely brain dead. Magnus was upset that his concerns weren't being taken seriously. MVL has expressed similar concerns. Fabi recently said that chess organizers aren't doing a good job re anti-cheat protocols. Danny at Chesscom recently went on and on about how they are finally going to get seriously serious about online cheating. This whole discussion, which is absolutely critical, only started because Magnus made his dramatic move and all Ben could do was whine that is impolite to quit a tournament. It was just awful.
@@johnrichardson7629A dude wh hasn't been convinced was cancelled and suffered a lot of public humiliation and career setbacks.
Something good coming out of the drama doesn't justify the horrific behaviour of the public who cancelled hand, not the players who fed this controversy and without proof.
It's easy enough to say "There's no proof, I withhold judgement, but the cheating situation is really bad" but they didn't do that either.
You're also not taking into account how witch hunty people can get at certain topics.
Imagine Hans cheating online but never otb, and then playing good on his own. That would be a super hard situation to stay silent in for people who brought into the baseless (as far as the public knows ) allegations and rumours.
@arnavrawat9864 You are of course referring to guy who had already confessed to cheating, including in money tournaments. Gans is a victim only of his own behavior and has frankly gotten off light.
"sometimes when you swing, you hit a homerun" LOL I m gonna use that...
Thanks for filling us all in, Ben - unsubbed from Gotham ages ago, when he started with "THE ROOOOOOOOK" type stuff
I just watch the Gotham Games channel these days. Not interested in clicking on a 35 minute video with no idea what it will be about because the title is so misleading.
Honestly, they should stop bugging Hans. Hans is doing well he didn’t do anything suspicious.
He is also just 20. Barely an adult.
I saw a "Niemann 100%" title but when I noticed it was by gothamchess, I ignored it. Time well saved.
Why (or how) is a 2800 GM playing against a 400 rated player?
I wrote a huge response about why CAPS and the engine evaluation during the game differ, why Lichess analysis is unreliable due to a flaw in its distributed model that is actually necessary for Lichess to remain free, and the methods used to get reliable chess analysis results by using consistent specific hardware and correctly configured firmware+software, but nobody wants to read all of that. You didn't even want to read all of this. Long story short: Computers are complicated and most of us have no idea what the data we are being presented with means or if it is a reliable representation of what it claims to be. CAPS is not quite the same as raw engine correlated accuracy because it uses aggregation (sorting) and a game context-aware algorithm. So, when you look at the engine eval during the game and it is different, it isn't always a case of one instance being right and the other being wrong. It is more likely that they are representing different things. Rapport may have been better at one or more points in terms of raw evaluation, but when all of those peaks and valleys were aggretated into the final score, we saw that accuracy and adjusted precision scoring told different stories.
I watched the first minute or so of this video, then went and re-watched Levy's video to have it clear in my mind, and when I went to my history to switch back to this video, this one and Levy's were next to each other in my history. Turns out the thumbnails are the same, and I absolutely love that.
Bravo, Ben. Bravissimo!
Bens a gm in chess and in trolls
@@daveshif2514
Well said.
beef aside, is GC's book any good? anyone took a gander?
The ending where Ben is reading the chat is 😂
"Show hans vs Rapport"
"No"
Best way to end the video
@@spandankonar8635 my favorite is when Ben reads something or gets surprised by a move and then just says, “…what?”
I opened levy’s new chess book, and all it said was “Caro khan” on every page…
glad I don't have to understand this now. thanks
*You explained the drama very well
2:48 I felt the exact same about Rapport and Duda until the WCC lol
Niemann vs. Gotham. Can both of them lose?
You're committed to the game when you have mate, but with seconds on the clock you still are working to find mate in fewer moves.
I can't wait to see the next Gotham video.
Hans is a smart guy doing a character - he is playing a heel ala pro wrestling. He is making outlandish and controversial statements to be the bad guy to get people interested in him. It is interesting and effective.
since he seems to have zero friends in professional chess, cheated in the past, and never did anything chess-related that's out of character, it is reasonable to assume that he is just an interesting person
Being a dick to get attention is still being a dick.
I absolutely agree with Ben! He made a point, you know! First, finish the game and then tell the story. I learnt a lot today.
Hans has the self esteem of Bobby Fischer except he isn’t a Bobby Fischer
I should listen to Ben Finegold more often. I spent a lot of that 8 minutes laughing out loud.
Nieman is so sensitive to accusations of cheating that now he sees accusations of cheating everywhere.
I feel that Ben is "a bit" jealous of Gotham's success, so he mocks him constantly.
He is mocking everyone constantly
@@kayrakarabacak8810 Not like this. The truth hurts.
It was faster to go to twitter lol
I always agree with Ben. It’s myself I don’t agree with.
I became your fan for what you said about Twitter/X in the opening remark! 🙂
You had me at, "that's what an idiot would call it".
The only difference is Gotham's video wasn't specifically about Hans. He makes daily recaps highlighting several games from the tournament each round. Hans' game was just one of like 6 that he featured in the video. But Hans gets clicks so it's a pretty good title to use.
I guess Ben missed the other thread where Eric Rosen and Yasser were ripping each other a new one. 😉
What happened there?
@@galois6569 Just a joke. They're two of the chillest, least-angry personalities in the chess world.
Yasser is not physically able to frown.
I would argue that its a lot stupider to keep using an old archaic name for a company instead of the actual name of the company. You'll only look more and more silly and confuse more people the longer you refuse to accept reality. Eventually there will come a point where nobody knows what twitter means
my brother's name is Benjamin nuggets, but i call him Benny Logs, cause he always blocks the toilet.
i mean it's not clickbait if hans said he played perfectly in an interview is it? it's just a reference
Ben is absolutely hilarious!
I agree totally about twitter name. Yeah - I do wish Levy would calm down on his Titles - he doesn''t need to make his titles clickbaity - he's getting the views anyway. I love Levy but his video titles are always overdramatised. BUT, Hans, why even bother taking to twitter to diss Levy when really Levy wasn''t having a go. So thats just Hans getting his heckles up against anyone and everyone, due to feeling the world was against him. I mean he is still very young so i guess there will be some maturing with time.
Love your sense of humour 😂