Hey Photon, I'm huge NIN fan & synth player/musician. You having amazing production video quality, helping a lot. Subscribed! Shall the stars bless you
Wow that was really great... not only in visualizing how the sound design was could have been done but in giving us a concept to peruse with other music we could make.
Theres a interview with Trent somewhere and he said he used a wood block for that sound, he played the note high but then transposed it down 2 octaves so it has that weird sound to it
I tried this method with Phase Plant and it works very well. Adding a distortion after the bit crusher makes the notes really sing. Thanks for the great video!
This was awesome. I'm always always down for more nine inch nails stuff. I've been trying to recreate sounds I've heard Reznor make for many years with very little success 🤣
I’ve been experimenting around with having the filter open up for the higher notes and I have found that it works even with sounds that I’ve recorded to make my own lead sounds.
Great vid. I also suspect this sound was in the live version of Pinion (the Woodstock 94 performance is a good go-to). The Heresy and Ruiner examples are ones I'd never picked up on. Nice!
Nice surprise to see myself popping up in a YT video. Thanks for that :) FIrst just a sidenote regarding the sound on Ruiner, not sure if you have access to the 5.1 mix but mute the front speakers if you do (this sound is in the back speakers). I was surprised to hear that it actually had a very long decay and release. And while'st on the topic of Ruiner, this sound plays throughout the whole bridge in the 5.1 mix while in the stereo version it comes in half way. (And Trent if you are reading this, still waiting for the 5.1 mixes for The Fragile!!!). But to this Terrible Lie sound-my comments were based on my experiences with two very different sounds which have nothing to do with NIN. They are both from the song Tonight Tonight Tonight by Genesis. The lead sound in there is a mix of an marima sound combined with a DX7 woodblock sound (in a higher octave), ran through a gated reverb from the Yamaha REV7. The other are sounds from the Simmons SDS7, some of which you can also hear in that song and which share some similar qualities with Terrible Lie. Now I know that Trent didn't use the Simmons sounds and I believe the DX7 was never a sound source for NIN (just a controller he liked to abuse on stage) but in my experimentations to get these Genesis sounds and processing them, it really reminded me of the sound in Terrible Lie. Especially if you crank it to the point of distortion. I really do hear distortion going on there but not in the way a guitar amp or distortion pedal will give you. It sounds (at least to my ears) like some convertor or output stage of a synth/sampler is badly clipping (hence my first remark that I would use a bitcrusher, nice to see you use it as well here). And for that I kind of suspected the Emu Emax/Emulator he used. Actually everything except vocals and guitars sound like they could come from the Emulator/Emax (sorry forgot which of the two he used in the studio here). Now that I see you creating a similar sound with noise as the basis, that is actually how the SDS made it's drumsounds. Most of them are a noise generator with a sine/square for pitch (usually with an envelope on the pitch to make it drop). What he used, probably only he and Flood will know, but I think your method is the "easiest" way to start and get in the ballpark as I think the specifics of using samples and it's ability to get it sound like that depend on the quality of the sample used. Maybe Trent had samples like this, or he did create this sound similar to what you did on his minimoog or xpander, or perhaps he did that and sampled it into the emulator for sequencing and processing, or maybe it's still something else.
I made a version myself a while back using self oscillating filter, key tracked and mixed with noise. Got pretty close, sampling a good not made it more stable but less organic.
Yo, since you're doing tons of NIN stuff (thank you for these videos by the way, they're very interesting!) could you try the growl-ish bass synth that goes pretty much all throughout "Ahead of Ourselves"?
Can someone please explain how to port notation value to filter cutoff in ableton live 10 as explained around 3:17 ? Really new to ableton and trying to figure this one out. Thanks for the great video x
You're probably right in terms of how this sound was made! That said, I don't believe he actually automated this sound himself, I think he ported it as a sample. The reason I'm guessing that is because sources on the NIN wikipedia claim that the primary machine Trent used for the leads on Pretty Hate Machine was the E-Mu E-Max II. Which is a sampler keyboard.
Nice video! I think this is the smart way of going about recreating a sound like this, even if it might not be the way it was originally done. Note: the rest of this comment is somewhat speculative and ultimately unnecessary, but I figured since I had already written most of it and it's relevant to the conversation, I'd post it anyway. I'm not sure what exactly Trent used to make this sound, however I can without a doubt tell you what it's NOT: a DX7. Of course, there are about a million different ways to make sounds that are essentially the same, so I'm not suggesting that one couldn't use a DX7. But Trent hated the DX-7 and never used it other than for the on-stage synths which he repeatedly smashed to pieces during shows. The reason being that DX-7s were everywhere, they were relatively cheap, and they made for good on-stage controllers for the racks and other gear that was kept off-stage and out of harm's way. Samplers have been a staple of the NIN arsenal from PHM at least up to and including The Fragile. I remember reading a long time ago that Trent used a Kurzweil K2000 at some point. The K2000 makes a good candidate, as Trent would have been able to not only load samples onto it, but also process them using its VAST system (Variable Architecture Synthesis Technology). I'm rather unfamiliar with the K2000, but I've heard great things about VAST and what it's capable of. However, thanks to the magic of the internet, I recall either Charlie Clouser or Brian Liesegang talking about having an E-mu Emax in the LePig studio. I think. Anyway, a quick Google search immediately brings up an interview with Trent stating the following: "I've always had E-mu products. I had an Emulator II for a while, but I got rid of it right before I did the album. Almost every sound is an Emax. I like it because it has a slightly brighter sound than the Emulator. And I really love its crummy clock noise when you transpose down. That's the secret to a lot of the sounds on Pretty Hate Machine: get a cool sound, then transpose it down three octaves to get that great grainy high-end buzz." He also mentioned that he uses Turbosynth a lot, which no doubt has contributed a lot to the various types of sounds found on PHM, Broken, and TDS (not sure that he was still fussing with it when recording The Fragile). What's really cool is how so much of this stuff has either been documented in interviews or later explained by former members of the band who helped work on those albums on various online message boards. Also to note, the technical specs of the Emax: 12-bit at up to 42 kHz sample rates. You're definitely going to get some nice crunch at that bit depth. And now that I've typed all of this out, a quick scroll through the comments gets us much closer to the answer. I still find all of this stuff pretty interesting, though.
Can you identify which sounds from pretty hate machine are the minimoog? Because I don't know that much of phm used the minimoog based on the sounds I hear and the other instruments he said he had access to.
how do uu port the key or whatever the sweeping motion with the keyboard at 3:15 i dont use ableton but i have serum and hive ( my 2 most known vsts ) altho im not sure they're analog or not
Good try, but not that close. You must understand that it's not bitcrush, normally, it's aliasing. and the frequencies varies according to the pitch of each note whereas here, it's a static frequency independant of the keytrack. And secondly, I've read somewhere that Trent used a timestretched woodblock sound to make the sample of this melodyn probably with the Emax, or at least, resampled with the Emax. Try it with different kind of woodblock or even cowbell sound ... It's works really well and it's pretty close, and has this atonal / out of tune feeling. And even compare to the song tuning, this sample, in the album is slightly out of tune. They tuned it for some post 2000's shows, which I dislike, I prefer the original character of the first versions. and; at last, the melody is not the right one (but eventually, you can do what you prefer or like) Otherwise, I can say, but maybe you know, that a lot of the strange or gitty synths in Pretty Hate Machine are mostly Prophet VS or other stuff or synths resampled in the Emax and mangled or pitched.
God damn that's clever... says the guitarist who's only just trying to understand synths.... Could you show how to build some of the sounds like the bass synth in Land of Rape and Honey by Ministry or the string/pad synths in Worlock by skinny Puppy?? Even the Bass synth in Sin! I only have NI Massive and I'm trying to learn lol
"Feel free to leave suggestions in the comments, we don't have to cover just NIN-" Bear with me but I've got a few ideas: 1. Maybe the pad or the bass line from "Voyager" in Daft Punk's Discovery Album? It's one of my favorite songs from that album. 2. Perhaps the bass line from Aphex Twin's "Alberto Balsam" might be a good potential topic to cover? 3. Something tangentially NIN related, but maybe the synth from the intro to Roxy Music's "Take A Chance With Me" would be cool too. I love the concept behind these videos, and while I'm also a big NIN fan it'd be interesting to see you tackle stuff from other composers too.
Hello, how do you automate the resonance with the midi keys? I am using the analog synth in ableton. Does this need an external midi device to work or will it work on drawn out midi too?
Analog > Filter Panel > Freq Mod > Key I set this number to 1 from its default of 0. This is how the Analog synth modulates the filter position based on notation input. Performed or drawn. No midi keyboard required.
Hi man, great videos! I love your channel. Have a question for the community. How do you port notation or set notation to shape the noise to a note value? I wasn't able to do that. Thanks again!
That sample actually comes stock with the early 1980's Apple computer Music creating software. I think it's called "Laser Gun".The UA-camr "Look Mum No Computer" actually refurbished an old one and made a song with it.
All NIN all the time plz. Give me an excuse to use all these toys I bought. If you could recreate a whole Song that would be sweet too. 👌🏻 There is a demo of a song in UAD Luna that I just installed. Interesting DAW.
Trent said in interview that it's his favourite sound on Pretty Hate Machine and that it was a woodblock sound pitch-shifted
the king is back
I am here because my 5 year old boy absolutely loves this part of Terrible Lie. Thank you for posting these. 🙏
Hey Photon, I'm huge NIN fan & synth player/musician. You having amazing production video quality, helping a lot. Subscribed! Shall the stars bless you
Awesome, thank you!
Wow that was really great... not only in visualizing how the sound design was could have been done but in giving us a concept to peruse with other music we could make.
Theres a interview with Trent somewhere and he said he used a wood block for that sound, he played the note high but then transposed it down 2 octaves so it has that weird sound to it
Right, something to do with a sample storage workaround I think
I tried this method with Phase Plant and it works very well. Adding a distortion after the bit crusher makes the notes really sing. Thanks for the great video!
This was awesome. I'm always always down for more nine inch nails stuff. I've been trying to recreate sounds I've heard Reznor make for many years with very little success 🤣
Damn this is the EXACT sound I was looking for!! Kickass man, subbed
I’ve been experimenting around with having the filter open up for the higher notes and I have found that it works even with sounds that I’ve recorded to make my own lead sounds.
So glad to find a video covering a topic like this! Thank you! Fuxking awesome!
NIN synth tutorials!....keep em coming!
Man, your videos are the greatest ones I discovered searching for music stuff, amazing job sharing knowledge!!
Could you do some songs by Skinny Puppy? I'd like to know how to make the synth sounds used in Grave Wisdom in the beginning
I adore the NIN synth work you do
That unprocessed sound @2:12 definitely sounds like something used in the beginning of the Further Away remix of "Closer"
Phenomenal analysis. Really enjoyed watching you step through your theory.
Great vid. I also suspect this sound was in the live version of Pinion (the Woodstock 94 performance is a good go-to). The Heresy and Ruiner examples are ones I'd never picked up on. Nice!
Yep the live Pinion always used it as well. I was always like “fuck yeah that’s the Ruiner tone”
Nice surprise to see myself popping up in a YT video. Thanks for that :)
FIrst just a sidenote regarding the sound on Ruiner, not sure if you have access to the 5.1 mix but mute the front speakers if you do (this sound is in the back speakers). I was surprised to hear that it actually had a very long decay and release. And while'st on the topic of Ruiner, this sound plays throughout the whole bridge in the 5.1 mix while in the stereo version it comes in half way. (And Trent if you are reading this, still waiting for the 5.1 mixes for The Fragile!!!).
But to this Terrible Lie sound-my comments were based on my experiences with two very different sounds which have nothing to do with NIN. They are both from the song Tonight Tonight Tonight by Genesis. The lead sound in there is a mix of an marima sound combined with a DX7 woodblock sound (in a higher octave), ran through a gated reverb from the Yamaha REV7. The other are sounds from the Simmons SDS7, some of which you can also hear in that song and which share some similar qualities with Terrible Lie.
Now I know that Trent didn't use the Simmons sounds and I believe the DX7 was never a sound source for NIN (just a controller he liked to abuse on stage) but in my experimentations to get these Genesis sounds and processing them, it really reminded me of the sound in Terrible Lie. Especially if you crank it to the point of distortion. I really do hear distortion going on there but not in the way a guitar amp or distortion pedal will give you. It sounds (at least to my ears) like some convertor or output stage of a synth/sampler is badly clipping (hence my first remark that I would use a bitcrusher, nice to see you use it as well here). And for that I kind of suspected the Emu Emax/Emulator he used. Actually everything except vocals and guitars sound like they could come from the Emulator/Emax (sorry forgot which of the two he used in the studio here).
Now that I see you creating a similar sound with noise as the basis, that is actually how the SDS made it's drumsounds. Most of them are a noise generator with a sine/square for pitch (usually with an envelope on the pitch to make it drop). What he used, probably only he and Flood will know, but I think your method is the "easiest" way to start and get in the ballpark as I think the specifics of using samples and it's ability to get it sound like that depend on the quality of the sample used. Maybe Trent had samples like this, or he did create this sound similar to what you did on his minimoog or xpander, or perhaps he did that and sampled it into the emulator for sequencing and processing, or maybe it's still something else.
I really do appreciate the conversation here. So much to consider.
You just blew my mind
I made a version myself a while back using self oscillating filter, key tracked and mixed with noise. Got pretty close, sampling a good not made it more stable but less organic.
Yo, since you're doing tons of NIN stuff (thank you for these videos by the way, they're very interesting!) could you try the growl-ish bass synth that goes pretty much all throughout "Ahead of Ourselves"?
Can someone please explain how to port notation value to filter cutoff in ableton live 10 as explained around 3:17 ? Really new to ableton and trying to figure this one out. Thanks for the great video x
Awesome videos!
While it's not a Trent's patch, would be awesome to breakdown the bass synth of Royksopp's Vision One, it's quite unique!
Would LOVE to know how Trent got that glassy sound on the chorus part of Ringfinger that the keyboard plays as an arpeggio in C. Any ideas??
Nice, great work
Love it. Looks like I found a new channel to play with :-)
You're probably right in terms of how this sound was made! That said, I don't believe he actually automated this sound himself, I think he ported it as a sample. The reason I'm guessing that is because sources on the NIN wikipedia claim that the primary machine Trent used for the leads on Pretty Hate Machine was the E-Mu E-Max II. Which is a sampler keyboard.
I think you'll be happy once you watch part two of this episode
Nice video! I think this is the smart way of going about recreating a sound like this, even if it might not be the way it was originally done.
Note: the rest of this comment is somewhat speculative and ultimately unnecessary, but I figured since I had already written most of it and it's relevant to the conversation, I'd post it anyway.
I'm not sure what exactly Trent used to make this sound, however I can without a doubt tell you what it's NOT: a DX7. Of course, there are about a million different ways to make sounds that are essentially the same, so I'm not suggesting that one couldn't use a DX7. But Trent hated the DX-7 and never used it other than for the on-stage synths which he repeatedly smashed to pieces during shows. The reason being that DX-7s were everywhere, they were relatively cheap, and they made for good on-stage controllers for the racks and other gear that was kept off-stage and out of harm's way.
Samplers have been a staple of the NIN arsenal from PHM at least up to and including The Fragile. I remember reading a long time ago that Trent used a Kurzweil K2000 at some point. The K2000 makes a good candidate, as Trent would have been able to not only load samples onto it, but also process them using its VAST system (Variable Architecture Synthesis Technology). I'm rather unfamiliar with the K2000, but I've heard great things about VAST and what it's capable of.
However, thanks to the magic of the internet, I recall either Charlie Clouser or Brian Liesegang talking about having an E-mu Emax in the LePig studio. I think. Anyway, a quick Google search immediately brings up an interview with Trent stating the following:
"I've always had E-mu products. I had an Emulator II for a while, but I got rid of it right before I did the album. Almost every sound is an Emax. I like it because it has a slightly brighter sound than the Emulator. And I really love its crummy clock noise when you transpose down. That's the secret to a lot of the sounds on Pretty Hate Machine: get a cool sound, then transpose it down three octaves to get that great grainy high-end buzz."
He also mentioned that he uses Turbosynth a lot, which no doubt has contributed a lot to the various types of sounds found on PHM, Broken, and TDS (not sure that he was still fussing with it when recording The Fragile). What's really cool is how so much of this stuff has either been documented in interviews or later explained by former members of the band who helped work on those albums on various online message boards. Also to note, the technical specs of the Emax: 12-bit at up to 42 kHz sample rates. You're definitely going to get some nice crunch at that bit depth.
And now that I've typed all of this out, a quick scroll through the comments gets us much closer to the answer. I still find all of this stuff pretty interesting, though.
Can you identify which sounds from pretty hate machine are the minimoog? Because I don't know that much of phm used the minimoog based on the sounds I hear and the other instruments he said he had access to.
So u know you're wrong, that it is a woodblock, but ya nailed this nonetheless. Very very cool. Nin anything always gets me going
A year later, I think I agree w your analysis. Again great job
damn
On right track .
how do uu port the key or whatever the sweeping motion with the keyboard at 3:15
i dont use ableton but i have serum and hive ( my 2 most known vsts ) altho im not sure they're analog or not
nvm i see in the matrix its " note# " instead of " key " for anyone else wondering on serum
Good try, but not that close. You must understand that it's not bitcrush, normally, it's aliasing. and the frequencies varies according to the pitch of each note whereas here, it's a static frequency independant of the keytrack.
And secondly, I've read somewhere that Trent used a timestretched woodblock sound to make the sample of this melodyn probably with the Emax, or at least, resampled with the Emax.
Try it with different kind of woodblock or even cowbell sound ... It's works really well and it's pretty close, and has this atonal / out of tune feeling. And even compare to the song tuning, this sample, in the album is slightly out of tune. They tuned it for some post 2000's shows, which I dislike, I prefer the original character of the first versions.
and; at last, the melody is not the right one (but eventually, you can do what you prefer or like)
Otherwise, I can say, but maybe you know, that a lot of the strange or gitty synths in Pretty Hate Machine are mostly Prophet VS or other stuff or synths resampled in the Emax and mangled or pitched.
All of PHM was Fm, though interesting to see an attempt of the sounds on an analogue synth
Nope.
Emu Emax, Oberheim Xpander, and Moog Minimoog.
God damn that's clever... says the guitarist who's only just trying to understand synths.... Could you show how to build some of the sounds like the bass synth in Land of Rape and Honey by Ministry or the string/pad synths in Worlock by skinny Puppy?? Even the Bass synth in Sin! I only have NI Massive and I'm trying to learn lol
sick vid kid
"Feel free to leave suggestions in the comments, we don't have to cover just NIN-"
Bear with me but I've got a few ideas:
1. Maybe the pad or the bass line from "Voyager" in Daft Punk's Discovery Album? It's one of my favorite songs from that album.
2. Perhaps the bass line from Aphex Twin's "Alberto Balsam" might be a good potential topic to cover?
3. Something tangentially NIN related, but maybe the synth from the intro to Roxy Music's "Take A Chance With Me" would be cool too.
I love the concept behind these videos, and while I'm also a big NIN fan it'd be interesting to see you tackle stuff from other composers too.
woodblocks, noise generator, low bit depth. squelchy filter, now go for it!
I have a problem with your channel, there are not enough videos, I need more, give us more…………NOW!!!!!!!!
Hello, how do you automate the resonance with the midi keys? I am using the analog synth in ableton. Does this need an external midi device to work or will it work on drawn out midi too?
Analog > Filter Panel > Freq Mod > Key
I set this number to 1 from its default of 0. This is how the Analog synth modulates the filter position based on notation input. Performed or drawn. No midi keyboard required.
@@PhotonVideos Thank you so much for the quick reply! love your work, eagerly waiting for more stuff or the music you make!
I thought it was an original 1986-89 Emax?
It most likely was but I doubt they would have changed their woodblock sound for the demo that I referenced.
Can you talk about the process to automate parameters with keyboard notation output? This would be super helpful.
Thats definitely a case by case with all the synths in the world. What one are you going to use?
@@PhotonVideos I actually don't have a hardware synth, so I was mostly curious about the configuration on the DAW end.
Same goes for each software synthesizer. They are all incredibly unique and have their own ways of achieving that goal
Love your content!! to break the NIN chain, Could you help with the beginning synth of Thursday's "You Were the Cancer"?
Sweet! Can you do a video on how to make the sample/sound in Ministry's Land of Rape and Honey. The hunter horn hit sound
NIN fuck yeah!
Amazing video! i was wondering how did you map the MIDI notes to the filter cutoff in ableton?
It's been a long wait, but I hope this helps: ua-cam.com/video/YS-e2r5bef0/v-deo.html
@@nickatkinson7964 oh wow thank you so much!
Nice
What the devil
whispered to Robert Johnson between blues progressions.
that might just be it!
Hi man, great videos! I love your channel. Have a question for the community. How do you port notation or set notation to shape the noise to a note value? I wasn't able to do that. Thanks again!
That sample actually comes stock with the early 1980's Apple computer Music creating software. I think it's called "Laser Gun".The UA-camr "Look Mum No Computer" actually refurbished an old one and made a song with it.
Not quite the same sound. This started as a woodblock, then got... Trent-ed.
Anyone who makes such a concerted effort to analyse Trent's music deserves my click on "Subscribe."
Damn... only nine vids. Make more please. :)
All NIN all the time plz. Give me an excuse to use all these toys I bought. If you could recreate a whole Song that would be sweet too. 👌🏻 There is a demo of a song in UAD Luna that I just installed. Interesting DAW.
That's a great idea!
theres one incorrect note
That bit crusher sounds disgusting lmao