What if Gollum Repented? | Tolkien Theory
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 січ 2024
- Hit subscribe and the bell for great Tolkien content every week!
Nerd of the Rings on PATREON: / nerdoftherings
NOTR merch: nerdoftherings.creator-spring...
To purchase artist work, check out these amazing artists!
Tulikoura - www.deviantart.com/tulikoura
Matthew Stewart - www.matthew-stewart.com/
BellaBergolts - www.deviantart.com/bellabergolts
Magdalena Katanska - www.artstation.com/magdalenak... / qualiney
Jerry Vanderstelt - vandersteltstudio.com/store/
Anna Podedworna - www.artstation.com/akreon
Jenny Dolfen - goldseven.wordpress.com/
Kimberly80 - www.deviantart.com/kimberly80
Turner Mohan - turner_mohan
Ted Nasmith - www.tednasmith.com/shop/
Anke Eissmann - anke.edoras-art.de/anke_illust...
Aronja Art - / aronjaart
Ivan Cavini - / ivan_cavini
Sara Morello - www.artstation.com/saramorello
Matěj Čadil - www.etsy.com/people/matejcadil
Tulikoura - www.deviantart.com/tulikoura
Aegeri - www.deviantart.com/aegeri
Justyna Dura - www.artstation.com/justynadura
Sergio Botero - www.artstation.com/sboterod
Noe Leyva - / noeleyvart
Clemence Morisseau - www.artstation.com/kahirie
Edvige Faini - www.edvigefaini.com , edvige.faini edvige_faini
Miriam Ellis - www.miriamellis.com
Stevce Lazarevski - www.artstation.com/artofstevce
Álvaro González - / alvarofernag_art
MirachRavaia - www.deviantart.com/mirachravaia
Gollum while Frodo Sleeps - Ted Nasmith
Gollum - John Howe
Sam - Tolman Cotton
Hobbits and Gollum - Andrea Piparo
Gollum Flees the Elves of Mirkwood - John Howe
Stairs of Cirith Ungol - Alan Lee
Gollum - Elrodimus Flash
The Stairs of Cirith Ungol - Peter Xavier Price
Gollum - Matthew Stewart
Gollum - John Howe
Precious - Aegeri
Stairs of Cirith Ungol - Anke Eissmann
Ringbearer's_Burden - Peter Xavier Price
Gollum - Alan Lee
Gollum - John Howe
Gollum Frodo Sam - John Howe
Gollum - Steve Airola
Sam - Jerry Vanderstelt
Gollum - John Howe
Gollum - Olanda Fong-Surdenas
gollum - Jerry Vanderstelt
Gollum - Daniel Govar
Gandalf Frodo and the Ring - Elrodimus Flash
Gollums Cave - felix englund
GOLLUM BILBO - John Howe
Gollum - Daniel Govar
Gollum in cave - Daniel Dougherty
Prof Tolkien - Kinko White
Frodo Baggins - Matt Stewart
Gollum at the Forbidden Pool - Ted Nasmith
Sam - Anna Kulisz
I will not say the day is done - Matt Stewart
Gollum - Ted Nasmith
bilbo baggins - skullb*st*rd
Gollum2 - Elrodimus Flash
Gollum - Catherine Karina Chmiel
Riddles InThe Dark - John Howe
Sam - Matt Stewart
Bilbo - Elrodimus Flash
Stairs of Cirith Ungol - Elrodimus Flash
Shelob's Lair - Alan Lee
sam vs shelob - matej cadil
Cirith Ungol - Alan Lee
Cirith Ungol - Lída Holubová
Mithril - John_Howe
Samwise the Brave - Elrodimus Flash
MOUNT DOOM - John Howe
In Mordor - John Howe
In the land of Mordor - Olanda Fong-Surdenas
Hope - Anna Kulisz
mount doom - aegeri
Sam Frodo and Orcs - Elrodimus Flash
Tower of Cirith Ungol - Matěj Čadil
Across Gorgoroth - Ted Nasmith
Stench of Mordor - John Howe
Mount Doom - felix englund
frodo & sam in mordor - anotherstranger_me
1 Ring - Shannon Moe
Mount Doom - John Howe
Mount Doom - Alan Lee
Frodo Sam Mordor - Andrea Piparo
Mount_Doom - Olanda_Fong-Surdenas
Frodo_3 - Soni_Alcorn-Hender
Frodo_and_Sam_on_Mount_Doom - Soni_Alcorn-Hender
mount_doom - tolmancotton
Sam_Enters_Mordor_Alone - Ted Nasmith
Gollum_is_Defeated - Ted Nasmith
Mount_Doom_2 - Alan_Lee
Sauron forging the ring - Alan Lee
Sam and Frodo - Elrodimus Flash
Crack of Doom - KARL FITZGERALD
Call of the ring - anato-finnstark
A Sudden Call to Mount Doom - Ted Nasmith
Gollum - anthony catillaz
the Cracks of Doom - Ted Nasmith
Shadow of Sauron - Ted Nasmith
the Professor - Kinko White
gollum - tom romain
sauron - Shadow of War
Mount Doom - Elrodimus Flash
Rangers Scout the Ruins of Barad-dur - Ted Nasmith
Salvation at Mt. Doom - Jerry Vanderstelt
Battle of the Black Gate - Ted Nasmith
Field of cormallen - Tolman Cotton
Homeward_Bound - Alan_Lee
scouring of the shire - Tolman Cotton
frodo in bag_end - anotherstranger_me
Shelob's Lair - Lída Holubová
Grey Havens - Ralph Damiani
frodo - Jenny Dolfen
Black Gate - Ralph Damiani
Grey Havens - Alan Lee
bilbo in rivendell - Matej Cadil
Elanor the Fair - Jenny Dolfen
Red Book - Shannon Moe
Three Books of Lore - Miriam Ellis
Old Bilbo Baggins - Elrodimus Flash
bilbo's tales - Tolman Cotton
sam and rosie - Tolman Cotton
Frodos Dream of Earendil - Anke Eissmann
Grey Havens - Francesco Amadio
Sam and Shelob - John Howe
The Shire - Ted Nasmith
Bilbo Leaves Bag End - Elrodimus Flash
Eru and the Gods - Kip Rasmussen
#gollum #tolkien #whatif - Розваги
I was inspired to make this vid from my time guest co-hosting the Prancing Pony Podcast! Check it out! My eps are currently airing through the end of January!
theprancingponypodcast.com
My favourite video you’ve posted
Do a video about the History of Dale
I must ask, NotR. What do you think would happen if Sméagol only casted the One Ring into Mount Doom and not himself with it? Would he live long after the departure its departure? Would he sale to the Undying Lands as a Ring Bearer to be healed?
@@teleportedbreadfor3days Oooooooo that is a great theory, it would definitely be interesting if Sméagol got to sail to the undying lands😅
A great theory, and would have also been a beautiful end to the one ring
Theory idea: what if Boromir had survived the attack by Saruman’s uruk’s and regrouped with Aragorn and company?
Or if he had taken the ring
That was tolkiens intention originally but then he went back changed it. They're are old manuscripts where boromir travels with legolas argon and gimli to rohan
This is such a well-written moment, because Sam's not even wrong. Gollum HAD been sneaking out to cement his plot against Frodo and Sam. He is every bit the old villain that Sam accuses him of being. He's explicitly witnessed the struggle going on in Gollum's head, but he's been too obsessed with worry over his master to really register what it meant.
Honestly, I can't blame Sam for his harsh treatment of Gollum. Imagine having a cannibalistic creature who wants the object that is needed to save the world and that your dear friend keeps. Sam probably couldn't get an hour of sleep with Gollum around.
Absolutely. If I was Sam and hadn't already killed him at a hundred other points in time I'd have thrown him off the stairs while Frodo slept. "🤔 must have slipped?"
I can. I eventually re-read everything, and Sam was pessimistic and complaining the whole time. He had a seriously bad attitude! I don't know how others miss it.
@@therongjr totally, Sam did have heroic moments but never without flaw
@@therongjr
The point is that we think the attitude is justified
It was the ring that made him bad. From beginning to end. It was just what the ring does to people. Frodo felt he was similar in a lot of ways to what happened to Gollum. Sam was right not to fully trust Gollum because of the way the ring worked. But he was wrong to be mean about it.
I would like to see a theory video in which the blue wizards don't go into the far east, but instead stay relevant to the story. Another great video, Matt! Keep them coming.
One midnight blue, secretly after the ring, the other sky blue, for the light.
Artistic license allowed!
This is a really interesting request, I second an interest in hearing this theory!
That would be awesome!
Imagine a blue wizard theory video, I have many, but one slain by Sauruman
I bet Matt could do a decent job, but tbh I can’t imagine how you’d craft a theory about two characters that have almost 0 narrative info about them.
I know others have done it, but I would love to see a video on what if Faramir went to Rivendell instead of Boromir?
I was just wondering the same thing!
YES!
Men of the West actually covered that topic 6 years earlier actually.
That'd be a good one!!
Even without sacrificing himself, Gollum probably would have died shortly after the Ring's destruction. He was more than 500 years old, and the only thing keeping him alive was the ring. He probably would have turned into bones or dust.
He says so himself, yeah.
Yeah, like at the end of The Last Crusade
Maybe so, maybe not. Remember how Bilbo held on. There may be some residual power that would allow Smeagol to survive a while yet, and go with Bilbo and Frodo to the undying lands. I've posted an edit that posits such a possibility. Though I could see him making it to the very gangway of the ships and then expiring, smiling as he did so. I can hear what his last words would be as Frodo gently wept over him.
"It's all right, Dear Master, Gentle...Master. Smeagol is finally free."
@@CarlGorn
Bilbo had the Ring for 60 years.
Gollum had it for over 500.
Bilbo wasn't a scummy guy before finding the Ring.
Sméagol was a bad guy before he ever even found the Ring.
No, Bilbo and Gollum are not the same.
*Gollum:* Master Baggins, We don't feel so good...
This theory was really touching to me. To picture them as "the three heroes" and to hear about Smeagol's sacrifice brought a tear to my eye.
Also cool to hear that Tolkien already startet to give the foundations for AU fiction about the legendarium himself!
Here's a thought out of nowhere: Could there possibly be a parallel between the trio of Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli, and that of Frodo, Sam, and Gollum? I'm just spit-balling here; I don't actually have any suggestions.
Neat idea to explore, even if Gollum pre-ring wasnt exactly the nicest Hobbit out there.
Yeah, people often forget that even before the ring, Gollum wasn't a nice person. There is a reason he succumbed to the ring so easily.
Killing his bestie was a heavy weight to live 500 years alone in the dark,who could handle a supermax like Florence and not lose it ? Death would seem better.
All these years on, and I still remember how blown away by his first appearance in Two Towers. Serkis and the effects team of the trilogy deserve all of the praise in the world 😊
What if Feanor had sacrificed the Silmaril to revive the two trees ?
Almost nothing else in universe happens lol
@@philipcrandell3098they really just chill there for eternity I guess. Then the men just all fall to morgoth because nobody can fight him.
Wasn't this impossible??? Even as the request was made for Feanor to sacrifice his creation to revive the trees his father was killed and the Silmaril were stolen by Melkor.
@@alexiachimciuc3199 That's the main point ! There are many possible scenarios depending on how you modify the story. Did he just agree on sacraficing his creation and the other events remain the same or do you change the story to a point where he actually sacraficed them. In fact there is a line in the text where the narrator says that even just Feanors agreement could have prevented much evil and changed Ardas history.
@@tommythomasson1 aaa what? Even if Feanor sed "yes take them" there were no more silmarilions. Ah! Yes a kinder Feanor would have been better. No kin killing no boats burning no Helcaraxe.
One of the finest "Alternate LOTR Lore" episodes..... Wonderfully done ✅
"the three heroes" 😢
That would have been such a crowning moment of awesome for Smeagol. One final "f*** you, I won" to Sauron.
Oh my, I hadn't even considered the epilogue consequences. 😢 As someone who suddenly and unexpectedly lost their best friend and soulmate in youth almost 10 years ago to the day, this hit me so hard. Knowing that Sam gets to be reunited with Frodo in the Undying Lands in canon but not so in this hypothetical... It may seem silly but that actually brought me to tears.
Smeagol teaming up with Sam to carry Frodo up Mt. Doom is so wonderfully wholesome; I love it!
The most heart-wrenching moment for me in all of the Trilogy is when, on the steep slopes of Cirith Ungol, Smeagol looks upon Frodo and understands his own life's tragedy from possessing the Ring. Tolkien wove such a beautiful and poignant story.
I was hesitant to start this theory video as I usually stick with canon content. I'm glad I did however. It was a beautiful(in a sad way), and interesting take on Smeagol repentance. Well done!
If Sam did not go to the Undying lands and remained in Middle Earth, I seriously can't imagine Aragorn NOT a) moving Sam's tomb to Rath Dinen with Merry and Pippin, or if he didn't do that, B) Making some important statue or memorial for him in Rath Dinen or whatever the Northern Kingdom's Rath Dinen equivalent would be. I guarantee you Aragorn would not have forgotten him.
Aragorn might have moved his own tomb to the shire haha, the restored king of the united kingdoms buried alongside the great heroes of the shire to show that the greatness of men isnt in crowns or lordship, it is in all their hearts
You nailed it as far as I can tell. It's exactly what played in my head when i think about Gollum repenting.
"And it seemed at last that there were 2 musics progressing at one time before the seat of Illuvatar, and they were utterly at variance. The one was deep and wide and beautiful, but SLOW AND BLENDED WITH AN IMMEASURABLE SORROW, from which it's beauty chiefly came." Silmarilion, Ainulindalë.
To me, thus sang Nienna and her brothers Lorien and Mandos, together in glorious harmony against the Clamorous Chord of Melkor before the creation of Arda. It was in this moment that their song reached their peak before Illuvatar himself stood and lifted His hand for the Final Chord
I watched the movies before reading the books, and I was really hoping Gollum would repent, and was super sad when he didn’t. This would indeed have been an amazing alternative to the cannon, and honestly I wish it was, excepting that Sam didn’t get to reunite with Frodo, Gollum saving Frodo and destroying the ring and himself to do so is heartbreakingly tragic and would have made the books have ab even more bittersweet ending than they already do😊
Gollum/Sméagol is a tragic character
@@bighand1530 He is…
It may have still happened by accident, there was so much power at work with the ring close to its master and its place of making and possible destruction, I think the mountain would have started shaking and rocks would have been falling from above them , the three of them may have been struggling for the ring half wanting it and half wanting to destroy it and a big rock may have fallen knocking Gollum and the ring down into the lava leaving Frodo and Sam struggling to save themselves & each other...!
As soon as the ring is dissolved everything built by its power would have collapsed and Gandalf would have known it was done, and Frodo & Sam would need rescuing... the orc armies would be in panic... the ringwraiths would die... their flying creatures celebrate after being released from their job by flying in big happy circles... and might even be useful for the rescue mission if the eagles haven't come in time!!
Sam might have still got ton to go to the Undying Lands. Gimli ended up going with Legolas years later (first dwarf to do so) and he never carried the ring as far as I know
I'll confess, I've never been satisfied with Gollums death, that Fate interviened, he "accidentally" fell. Him CHOOSING to sacrifice himself is not only heroic, it's makes sense. I like that Tolkien thought of that version. I understand at the end, Gollums death is meant to be tragic, the most of the whole story. Thanks Matt! 🖖😁🤘🇨🇦🕊️
That was a great theory video and made me cry a little, because it made sense and had a different emotional resonance. Your theory videos are always a lot of fun.
I have been watching your videos for a year or two now and I love how you reference where you get your ideas and concepts. thank you for all the detailed time and research you put into this channel.
4 theories I wish to see:
1. What if Faramir went to Rivendell instead of Boromir?
2. What if Aragorn failed to resist the One's temptation and took the ring when Frodo offered it to him near the end of Fellowship?
3. What if Samwise Gamgee failed to resist the One's temptation?
4. What if Bilbo killed Smeagol instead of sparing his life?
I like the idea of Gollum sacrificing himself for Frodo, but it seems a lot to ask after so brief of a redemption. I could see Gollum trying the take the ring from Frodo to save him instead of just a desire to posses it, and the doom placed on Gollum by Frodo at his capture still causing his fall into the lava since Frodo would still see it as a betrayal in his current state.
I always love hearing your take on these topics.
Here's an idea; what if Smaug took the One Ring? Either because he got bored of Bilbo's riddling earlier in their conversation, or, more interestingly, if the Ring - sensing that it was in the presence of a more powerful bearer than it'd had in centuries - slipped from Bilbo's finger.
I remember requesting this video of you once! Thanks for making it! It's almost exactly how I pictured it going!
I loved this theory version of the "I can't carry it for you" moment. Excellent voice acting. Could you do another theory of Sauron's victory if Bilbo never found the One Ring in the first place? I imagine Bilbo's chance of surviving Smaug would've been much lower but how would the rest of the tale play out?
This was fantastic! I literally exclaimed out loud “wow!” When Gollum tossed himself into the lava. And yet, as surprised as I was, it was very much believable. Not simple because Tolkien said so in his letters, but because it fit in with everything we know of Gollum, the power of the ring, and of repentance.
As a research scientist, I also very much appreciated how you defined your sources for this theory both before and after the story.
I love your epilogue speakings and hope that you're able to do more of them in future videos!
@NerdoftheRings I really wanna take the time to thank you for all your work you have no idea how much your videos have helped me to get through this past year, your awesome man keep it going!
I enjoyed this very much. I'm always surprised at how well
you research you videos.
Bravo! This was genuinely the best video I’ve seen of yours and that is saying something. It was heart wrenching when Gollum said about helping to carry Frodo and then sacrificing himself to save him. And the end when Sam didn’t get to be reunited with his friend in the grey havens. Fantastic video
This might be your best video yet! That epilogue took me by surprise and was very touching.
13:53 on: We enjoyed the EPILOGUE theory, particularly because you brought Eleanor into the story, to play her part. Great work! Thank you for always referring to Tolkien's letters as a pertinent reference, as his master plan continually evolved. 🙌🏻🙌🏻 Happy 2024!
Awesome bro great video!!! I've enjoyed ur channel for years huge fan!!! it's awesome how I look forward to w.e nerd of the rings is dropping Saturday mornings almost more then some of the shows I watch u bring more people into Tolkiens world of works !!! Great idea my guy!
Well, this was awesome, i enjoy your voice and the story, keep it up!!!
This was one of the best Tolkein theory crafts I've seen and heard. Amazing!
I very deeply love how you've written out this alternate version. Honestly, it's how I hope humanity would actually be.
🐉Here's an idea, what if Smaug the Dragon gets the One Ring, and he had a desire to use it?🐉
Sam’s story changed the most. I wonder if Frodo would have made a gravemarker for Gollum for his sacrifice. Also I wonder where Sam’s body would have been laid to rest. In the Shire next to his wife or next to the graves of Aragon, Merry and Pippin.
As I commented earlier, I can't see Aragorn not doing SOMETHING for Sam after his death if Sam had stayed in Middle Earth. If he didn't move his body to Rath Dinen with Merry and Pippin, at least some memorial or statue in either Rath Dinen, the shire borders, or in the northern Kingdom's Rath Dinen Equivalent. I like to think in the Shire even after he DID go to the undying lands, they'd have some monument or plaque or memorial to him since besides his other feats and the cleansing of the shire, he was mayor for 49 years.
Theory: After their rescue from Mordor, Frodo and Sam tell Aragorn of their quest and of the aid they received from a repented Smeagol. Aragorn is moved (which says a lot considering he once captured Gollum and brought him to Thranduil and described it as a miserable experience). He commissions the best marble sculptor in Gondor.
The memorial is set in a quiet public courtyard off of the busy main thoroughfare of the city: the small statue of an old Hobbit. His face is lined and worn, as though he has lived through many, many years and been taken far from the land where he was born. But his expression is peaceful and contented. He sits on a marble bench, looking into a fountain where the fish swim in the sunlit waters. Weary travels especially seem drawn to the bench beside the fountain, where they sit quietly beside Smeagol and listen to the sound of trees and feel the softness of the wind.
If it weren't for the mallorn tree being the new Party Tree, I could see Sam's grave there under its boughs - a fitting tribute to Hobbiton's greatest gardener.
@@katherinegraham3803 I love this idea so much!
Wow that's a good what if, it brings my mind back to maedhros casting himself into a fiery chasm with his 'precious' silmaril. It would've been a good comparison, maedhros jumping with a heart of remorse and pain, and gollum jumping with love and and redemption. Like George Lucas says, it's like poetry, it rhymes. A what if I always wondered was what if feanor sent maedros back with the ships for fingolfin's host. And what if Thingol listened to Melian and surrendered the jewels when the Sons asked for it
Great as always! Keep it up
Beautiful work as usual.
Hey man, huge fan of your videos! I have a BUNCH of theory ideas, haha.
What if the Uruks carrying Merry and Pippin had realized that they did not have the Ring?
What if Frodo had decided not to go to the Mines of Moria and instead continued on Caradhras?
What if Boromir hadn't died but a) continued with Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli or b) had just gone into a coma, making Aragorn think he'd died, and been sent on his boat to wake up and swim back to Gondor, lol
What if Aragorn was unable to save the hobbits in time on Weathertop?
What if Faramir had gone to Rivendell instead of Boromir?
What if Gollum never escaped from the Elves of the Woodland Realm?
What if Galadriel had never sent the king of the eagles to get Gandalf when he was sent back?
What if in the sacking of the Shire Saruman was far more open about who he was and what he was doing?
What if Grima Wormtounge had repented of Saruman's ways and left him to rejoin King Theoden?
And this is from Rings of Power Amazonverse canon, but can you do:
What if Elrond had 'regained his sight' of Galadriel when she jumped from the ship and ended up in Numenor?
What if Galadriel had figured out Halbrand was Sauron sooner?
What if Galadriel had just straight up told Elrond that Halbrand was Sauron?
What if Halbrand/Sauron had refused to go with Galadriel to Middle-Earth?
Very respectfully and very well done. Thank you!
Matt's fantastic script writing contributions greatly to the success of these videos and this channel. This is a prime example.
A theory I'd love to see is what if Boromir had been able to resist the ring, and survived the Uruk-hai attack? What difference would it have made to Denethor and his decisions prior the Battle of the Pelennor Fields?
I really enjoyed the video. Thank you.
Beautiful. Thanks and cheers, mate 🍻
I have a slight edit, one that would give Frodo a fellow ring-bearer to journey with to the undying lands. I'd be honored if you told me what you think:
Smeagol stood staring at the finger he had just bitten off his master, at the Ring still shining on the gore of its ruin. Turning to Sam, he said in a strained voice, "This is the end of Smeagol's strength. Smeagol lived under the Precious too long, he can't fights it. He can't cast it into the fire."
"Smeagol, you've got to, or all the three of us have gone through will be for naught! You want HIM to have it? You want him to take Master and Smeagol and Sam and the Precious?"
"Silly Hobbit! Stupid Hobbit! Master Samwise never carried it, has he, Precious? He doesn't know its weight, he doesn't know its hunger. No, Master Sam has not known how it eats away at poor Master and Smeagol, devouring the will, consuming the mind. Constantly whispering, never ceasing, never silent, never still..."
Sam was taken aback by this revelation, and found pity anew for the creature he once viewed as an enemy - a pity shared for Smeagol and Frodo alike, both having been ensnared by the great burden they had brought thus far. Then his face set, as if some great and grim decision had been made. "Smeagol, hold your hand out over the fire."
"Smeagol told you! He can't throws it in! He hasn't the will!"
Sam drew Sting from his master's scabbard. "It's all right, Smeagol. You won't have to."
Smeagol, in a flash of fear and understanding and final resolve, said simply, "Yes, master. Goll..." then closed his eyes and held the clenched fist with the Ring over the molten rock below.
His face like ash-covered stone, Sam sprinted forward and slashed the Elvish blade downward, making certain he'd have no need for a second attempt. Smeagol howled as his still-clenched fist flew into the liquid earth, along with the One Ring, returning after long ages to the fires from whence it was forged.
You can extrapolate from there. Personally, I like the imagery of the lesser stump and the greater stump side by side on the road to Lothlorien. Though I do wonder where Smeagol would live in the interim. I can't imagine him adapting back to civilization after so many centuries living in the wild alone. Though having the ring cleaved by an Elvish weapon might have something of a cleansing effect, so perhaps he could finally stomach cooked food. If so, I can imagine Frodo making it a habit to leave a plate of supper on the back side of Bag End for his fellow ring-bearer.
Also, instead of Sam Gardener, perhaps he took the name Sam Pruner. Dark humor, I know, but reflective of the dark deeds that prevented darker times. Trimming one limb so the rest of the world could flourish, it's got a humble heroism to it, as well as a further echo of Isildur.
But enough of my opinion. I'd like to hear yours.
I've always wondered what would have happened if Faramir had guided them to mount doom.
I remember when Sam was talking with Frodo about the old tales he asked Gollum if he’d want to be remembered as the hero or villain. In the actual story Gollum is not present, but in this theory version he would’ve been; I wonder what the conversation would’ve occurred then, as Gollum likely thought about being seen as a hero with fondness but wondering if he ever really could be perceived as such in light of his past.
this video came up after I finished watching swt new video & im currently watching The fellowship of the ring extended cut.. so the timing is perfect
I have wondered if gollum/smeagol was able to be redeemed. This is a great theory. Love your videos. These have helped answer questions I have had and to help answer questions my mom has asked me, years ago, when events were unfolding in the movies. I joke about giving her a Sparknotes book of Middle-Earth. Keep up the good work.
My son and I love your channel! We have a Theory suggestion for you. What if Numenor repents? We would love to see your video on that!! Keep up the great work!
great video even greater Gollum voice hahaha cheers!
Plausible! I liked your analysis. You covered everything to the last detail.
The only flaw is not meeting Shelob and revelling in her demise!
Paul M.
Atlaanta, GA
This was absolutely gold
Everytime I hear or see Throdo and Sam in orc armor, it reminds me of the animated movie and the song
"Where there is a whip there's a way."
In your theory, Gollum experiences a moment of divine grace. And he does his best to respond accordingly and follow through on it. I think that is a noble theory and a very interesting take on an alternate version of the great tale.
"...... But WE can carry you." ❤
Nicely done, yet another what if.
Brilliant theory, well thought out, and strongly based on Tolkien’s own musings! I somehow struggle to believe the journey from the Morgul stair to Orodruin would go so smoothly, even with a repentant Sméagol to help (maybe the ring’s temptation would have overcome him sooner, or maybe the three of them would still have been waylaid by orcs?) but I think it would have played out as the Professor guessed. Now you’ve made this repentance theory, I wonder what would have happened if Saruman repented, or never succumbed to corruption? Thanks for another great video, Matt and team!
I was searching 'What if Gollum survived nerd' yesterday, not the results I wanted... low and behold, next day? there it is! Love it
Oh this is a great choice. I love the what if videos.
Theory idea: What if Déagol and Sméagol had not found the Ring, and it had remained lost in the River Anduin.
Saruman might well have found it.
Someone (or something) would have found it. The ring wanted to be found. It wanted to return to it's master, Sauron. The story of Sauron would not have ended until the ring was destroyed.
@@MySerpentine and yet Saruman told the White Council that he thought the ring lost forever, rolled down into the sea.Was he corrupted by Sauron at that point? I don't think so.
@@theharper1 Corrupted by Sauron? Probably not. Corrupted by his desire for the Ring, however...
@qevvy I think Saruman was corrupted by Sauron after they cast Sauron out of Dol Guldur, through the palantir.
I really liked this theory about Gollum's repentance. I hope there will be more of these theory videos. I suggest that you make a video about what if Sauron allies with Smaug under the mountain and The Balrog in Khazad-dûm. Thank you very much and I really appreciate your videos.
That was a great theory video! 😄👍
Another one I would like to see would be one where what would have happened if the repentant Boromir had survived the orc attack at Rauros.
My god, your voice acting talent is staggering.
It is assumed that Shelob died or faced disabling injuries after Sam wounded her. If that event never happened it might be interesting to consider what role Shelob would play in the 4th age and beyond.
I think that the realization that Frodo was about to destroy the ring would've driven Smeagol/Gollum mad and overwhelmed any repentance. The idea that Smeagol would sacrifice himself and therefore willingly destroy the ring is also unlikely - Tolkien confirmed that Sauron was correct in assuming that no one could willingly destroy the ring. Therefore, an unrepentant Gollum is quite likely the only path to the successful completion of the quest. Whether or not that non-repentance happens earlier - outside of Shelob's lair - or later - on the slopes of Mount Doom - either way, I think the final few moments would have played out similarly to the canon story.
I think this is my favorite video you’ve ever done. There is no book like the Lord of the Rings. Thanks for the work you do exploring its depth.
Have you ever thought about doing tier list videos on stream? Like the most powerful humans or elves in middle earth
Would love a theory For what would‘ve happened if Saruman hadn‘t turned evil. And also if the Siege on Helm‘s Deep would‘ve been successfull. Quite oposite turns but both interesting imo
Very nice video
Best channel right here
I don’t think so. Sam couldn’t sympathize with Gollum because Sam could not sympathize with the One Ring; whose corruption was personified with Gollum. He saw Gollum for what he was. Gollum was consumed by the One Ring; no matter how much he loved Frodo, he loved the One Ring much more and for centuries longer. The One Ring had hold, and Gollum would have betrayed the Hobbits sooner or later. Gollum never would have allowed, nor would he have assisted with the destruction of the One Ring. Intent and action are not always consistent, which is evident by Frodo’s intent to destroy the One Ring but his inability to do so. Gollum killed his own relative for possession of the One Ring, love has no leverage over corruption.
I feel like in this version, Sam would have named one of his 800 kids "Smeagol"
why did this make me tear up
I certainly agree that if Sam had seen Smeagol instead of Gollum that things definitely would have been very different. And I think Gandalf would have realized that the ring has been destroyed and that Sam and Frodo needed to be rescued.
8:25 by the way, that was a really good impersonation right there.
Next question: Having been a Ring-Bearer for a short time and catching a glimpse of what both Frodo and Gollum had endured, would Sam perhaps come to regret his harsh words once the constant fighting was over and he had time to reflect?
I would love to see a theory for if Faramir went to Rivendell.
Ive watched this awhile ago; but I think I just got something in my eye...
Nice video
A lovely concept for Smeagol's redemption.
I think the best chance for Gollum to take a different path was at the pool when he was captured by Faramir. Sam and Frodo should have got themselves "captured" too. Gollum would not then have felt the betrayal which turned him against Frodo.
So we'll done, thank you!
Was curious about the point in Return of the King during the Battle of the Pelennor fields when the Witch King fled as Rohan arrived . Gandalf was about to go out to the battle but Pippin informs him about Demethor in the house of the dead and he gos there instead.
What would been the likely out come if he had chosen the battle instead ?
I have oftened wondered what might have happened if Aragorn refused the crown, or even refused to fight, fleeing into the wilds instead of assisting the fellowship
I'm digging the what ifs homie. As a life long LOTR fan I have always had a What If I'd like you to discuss. On Weather top if Frodo had received the Shirt of Mythril from Bilbo before Rivendell would the Morgol blade have pierced his shoulder? No blade can pierce it correct? What are your thoughts? Keep up the great content.
You should do a theory on what of Glorfindel went with the Company.
This way also is a beautiful story. To think of Smeagol as anything but a villain is perplexing
I would love to see a what if Faramir went to Rivendell.
That’s a great idea!
I've always wondered about this, and basically have imagined your story up until the end, but instead of Gollum attacking Frodo, he and Sam manage to plead with him to make him throw the ring into mount doom willingly. They are all saved and go back home with Frodo keeping Gollum around as a helper around Bagend. I like happy endings 😄
Both Cannon story and Theory idea have their beautiful and Bittersweet moments...
I love it. I’d like to see a theory of what would happen if Saruman was never corrupted.
Very good
Good question. I felt that Sam, in the end, took Gollum's chance of redemption away. Had he not, we still have the problem is the ring and its potential destruction may have over-thrown the redemption.