My main change would be krak sak in A. The issue is pilot skill has to be HIGH in order to make it work. That’s not a burn on krak players, it’s a statement on why it’s not more played.
As someone who’s been playing atraxa since release I can say food chain does win games and its also easy to bait ppl into thinking you’re going the food chain route by playing mist or scourge early on while I’m actually going for a infinite mana with kitten/teferi then proceed to blink atraxa until I get what I need. Also I like to run unusual combos that ppl just don’t expect like drannith/uba mask
I tried out Witherbloom Apprentice and Chain of Smog for a while in Atraxa. It would always catch players off guard, especially if you Born Upon a Wind and then cast chain, or Silence into it. It was fun, but took too much to set it up and for a creature that doesn't do much otherwise the risk/reward wasn't there in the end.
It often shuts off two people at the table and the last player runs away with the game. Blood Moon and Magus still give opponents the chance to play dockside, which instantly makes them win the game.
Tymna Kraum is bound to get weaker over time because of it's lack of identity. Sans Green Good Stuff can only go so far, and if there's something Nadu proved coming super strong right off the bat is how a commander with a very specific strategy can turn obscure cards into bombs (looking at you Shuko), that means Blue farm can only get stronger with new generically strong goodstuff cards while decks like Nadu and SPECIALLY sisay can get much stronger with very wacky new cards that can be just niche good but super strong in their specific decks. By the way Kinnan is getting a huge new dork in Trailtracker Scout, the expend 8 is a joke for the deck with the dork itself pushing for 2 of that, even if the expend does not count for mana spent to activate Kinnan all hardcast fatties will.
I played Atraxa for the past year and a half, and I moved off of it, simply because it's hard to keep up with rog sai or Tymna Kraum, and you're not going off before them most of the time simply to trying to set up the first couple of turns while the other decks are getting straight gas plays to go off quicker. Hoping for a Blind Obedience or Thoracle with counters as back up, is really low vs other faster decks in the format. Currently playing Krark/Sakashima and I'm absolutely loving it! Solid interaction and plays to win on top of others trying to win. The fact that you can copy a counter and bounce it is super solid and I'm trying to be one of the solid players to represent the deck.
I built Nadu and dominated tables to the point where it got boring. Then everyone was jumping on the Nadu train, so then I built a staxy Magda deck, I called it “BURN THE BIRD”. It was specifically designed to shut Nadu down. I packed the deck with cards like rending volley, ghostfire slice, null elemental blast, fireblast, and the usual stuff I’d normally have in the deck anyway like bottlecap blast, red elemental blast, and pyroblast, all of which bolt the bird for 1 mana. I also run nullrod and tons of artifact destruction because if I can’t deal with Nadu, I’ll deal with his tool box instead. My Magda deck has a 100% win rate against Nadu so far. Also, since Nadu runs blue, their decks are usually packed with counterspells and most of Magda’s interaction isn’t countable by the typical counterspells you commonly see in cedh. You also can pack even more answers to Nadu in a Rog/Si deck too.
I put together a very busted Nadu Cedh deck and was in a pod going against a Rog Si player and it was epic! The Rog si player was going all gas but I had enough interaction to come out on top. I approve this list. #HeIsMyBirdWizard
Yessssir! Stella pilot here since the precon came out… I played it high power (8/9 no dockside no fast mana… then moved it up To Cedh level, have made several changes and adjustments and I have it pretty well tuned that it almost always is presenting a win attempt BY turn 3, usually with 1 counter spell to back me up, and I’ve found if I get shut down I am getting back in the game quickly so not as much of a glass cannon as it was when I was playing it at first at the cedh level
I appreciate the rankings and the (super brief) overview of each deck! My question: what’s a good place to find a recent “stock” decklist for any of these I’m interested in trying? (Magda and Blue Farm first, probably). Edhtop16?
@@LemorasCards I have! I also saw the Apple Card from assassin’s creed and ran it in another deck. Shut down a blue farm deck just by removing his hand from the game to storm off and go. Undervalued card I think.
I play tivit and can confirm it's too damn slow for the meta. Even with the perfect start (Blind Obedience, Drannith, counterbalance, etc.) it still loses to sisay and blue farm.
List looks accurate to me! Now just need to team up with some mardu players to get back on the tiers for fall. I personally have talion, OB, and marneus built up to test against and loan to other players. And Vohar runs laps over talion and Ob. Ob gets turned off real easy thats its biggest weakness. and talion just doesn't close games and might draw you too little if you call the wrong number. Marneus has the atraxa/tivit problem in that it needs time to set up before it dominates. But I do think if more pilots were on it and figuring it out it could move up a tier. Malcom vialsmasher I also think has potential to move up a tier if more committed pilots were on it that deck wins out of thin air and has the right pivots and protection. Malcom tymna I think just needs a couple more defining cards to get it there. hopefully pollywag and dour port might be the gas it needs. Jeska Tymna is cooking and I feel pretty strong at tables with that pair definitely could break through with more tourney entries. looking forward to see how meta shifts. right now i think a lot of higher tier decks are not running enough permanent removal to deal with magda and nadus OP artifacts that they drop and win with.
Solid list! Just a little heads up. You talk about Sisay having two main builds but just explain the classis build in more detail. Could confuse those not knowing about Clam Chowder. Especially since you mention that deck before but then don’t mention it again on sisay. Keep up the good work!
Sound reasoning behind all the choices, even if I am sad to see most of my favorites languishing in C 😭 Where would you put that Erinis/Street Urchin deck? That honestly seems underplayed to me for how well it’s been doing
Ooooh, that's a tough one. Based on my knowledge of it I think it's probably a pretty real B tier contender, but it's hard to say. If it was more popular I could see people understanding it better and it struggling to do quite as well. I definitely think it's a C at minimum.
@BeanutPutter01 He has high potential but is performing very poorly recently, would sadly put him in D even though it's a really cool deck I think has some cool strengths to it. Could see it moving up for sure.
Bro im a new atraxa player, been playing it for some 2 months, I feel deck really slow compared to other decks in store, I try to accommodate stax pieces but I really struggle to win with it, although I really like the commander
@luistonicher2152 yeah it's a bit on the slower side. Can keep rocking it if you enjoy it but there are definitely similar options if you find it lacking!
Etali, yuriko, ob all on the list but no inalla.... dedicated 4 mana 1 card combo machine. Multiple layered combos and a smooth midgame to coast. Where'd she go from people's memory. Man you even put marneus. I cry. Good video! but there's some slight tier 2 on here def. And I understand there's a clear division
@MrMargiritaMan Inalla is a weird one because it's basically doing absolutely horribly recently BUT I can't imagine it's actually that bad and is mainly just getting ignored.
@@LemorasCards right I agree, for me recently it's been looking like a grixis creature deck that absolutely play the midrange compared to the "turbo" rog package with an additional 1 card combo. But she def can make a spot in the meta and is unique in the value she can provide. I def think she's one slipping under the cracks. And maybe she's under the weather this month. I thought she was at a 24% conversion last month. But with the addition of lively dirge and wanderwine 1 card creature combo she's a baller. Has creature creature combo, 1 cast combos and dedicated stuff for certain stax. I'm just sad she's falling by the wayside
The D decks are high power edh decks. I run yuriko for that reason but without the cedh staples and actually play around her ability and fast aggro and its fun 👍🏻
Rog/Si is “kinda hard to play”. I couldn’t agree more. Played it for the first time and I was struggling 😂 got the win though. Definitely want to learn it better
Tier list bad.... Now that i got that out of my system. Thank you for another amazing video. I think you are doing a great job explaining and talking about the CEDH community. I feel like you do a really good job of explaining why decks are where they are. And I feel as if you have good grasp on the ideas. I would love to have you do more interviews with people who get high ranks in CEDH tournaments. If you can reach out to get a tournament or deck brake down. Hear it from the people who are playing those decks at the highest tables. And get there insite. As I feel like seeing things from there prospective would be really helpful for some of the newer players, or people who want to understand a deck better and done have the full reps just yet. ( Also I'm going to have to ask you to please quit talking nicely about rog/si.. Please put them down about 2 tiers. And tell people its a bad deck. As I am a rog/si player.. And people are already out for my head.. if you say its better then T&K then I don't have any more political capital. And I would like more paper tiger propaganda posted so people quit paying attention to us. Thank you. )
It was suprising for me to see Rakdos The Muscle having better stats than Ob lately. Maybe its the respect factor? People have come to understand Ob and its pop off while not so much so for Rakdos yet? (Also doesn't benefit off of opponent actions, so people probably are less scared of it coming down early and don't kill/counter it right away?) Just kinda interesting to me! Only 9 entries (same as blood pod, RIP), but an insane 44% conversion...
@verzun8470 I'm excited to see how it develops. It is probably a case of knowing that Rakdos will always be face up casting its own spells to get value so you can answer some other part of it later or kill it before whatever the other piece is. It does represent an interesting space since so many of its most broken synergies are with creatures which could be tough to answer.
My main deck is etali now and its great people need realize its turbo deck if etali isnt on battlfield turn 1 or turn 2 you not winning but if you get him turn 1 turn 2 its pretty much gg every time. Got so many wins turn 1 its crazy
I did give that one the nod during the Malcolm/Vial section. Tymna/Malcolm ks definitely the best performing of the esper lists and would slot into high B for me right now, though I would like to see more entries to get a better view of it.
@dougryan2620 Basically, it's very easy to interact with and requires very bad cards to work with it, and it's an infinite mana combo that can never pay for Rhystic Study because it only generates creature mana, really just a few different awkward things about it that make it tend to struggle.
Nice helpful Video. I am starting to thinking about cedh but cant decide which deck as a not experienced Pilot in the Format. Can someone advise ,especially when i just bought Gaias Cradle and Serras Sanctum,but the Original Duals are financiall out of Range ?
Honestly, price wise Nadu might be your best bet if you aren't able to use proxies. It has a pretty simple gameplan, only runs one OG dual land, which you could acquire eventually, and most of the other expensive cards it runs are staples of the format you can use in any deck.
Hey. Would you share your decklist? I restartet Magic with the Marneus Precon and i upgraded it. I would love a cedh Deck with him as a second option...
I believe it’s because Tivit is a slow deck. If the game goes to time It can’t win with time sieve. Since time sieve requires extra turns. I haven’t played in a cedh tournament but this would be my guess
@@jessepurdy6950 sure but so many other combos can be disrupted in awkward ways, even thoracle which is considered the best combo in cedh by many can make you lose the game if someone forces you to cantrip. I'm not being defensive here, I just got the feeling that he had some specific point in mind that I'd like to understand...
@thiagorebello Yes! Probably should've mentioned more about this, but Time Sieve has a few logistics issues in tournaments. 3 player pods or a player being dead means it's offline, and maybe most notably that once time in the round is called, you can't continue taking extra turns as the match is over at the end of the current turn.
I think sisay is as good as farm. Just harder to play. I love rog si .. my favorite deck. But when I switch to farm the game just feels easier. I’m not punished as hard for mistakes til I get to top 16
I’m running Trinket Mage and super bad card Shuko which isn’t needed at all tbh but just cranks your engine up to nuclear powered. With so many bounce and copy effects in the deck I think Nadu slots right in kinda like Six - not essential and not a combo piece but just provides so much gas.
@danielcarrillo4800 hmmm Lily has been one of the most consistent performers with the list maybe so might point you towards hers: www.moxfield.com/decks/15hDq43PYEOLYgzEtjMKLA
How many letters down is Elsha of the Infinite XD or like either of the Narsets or Jeska//Ishai if you think they’re a better Jeskai pile than Elsha :)
@OmegaX117 probably like C? I haven't seen it much, but it can't be that bad. Just runs into the "why not add black and play tymna/kraum" camp. Probably has B tier potential.
Yuriko might not be great with high power level cEDH.. but damn, Yuriko can sneak in some epic mid-late game wins in a casual setting without anyone wanting to punch you, since you're top card revealing to win and not interfering with other player's plays other than a good counterspell or doomblade.
@@LemorasCards Yeah it's definitely not being played a lot right now. As turbo goes I think it has a lot potential but just needs more exposure/pilots lol
While it's a fan favorite, I don't think Gitrog has been very competitively relevant in the entire time I've run this channe unfortunatelyl. It has pretty recently got some new interesting support, though.
Oh interesting question. Probably high C depends on looking at results. It does have some issues where it's pretty similar to Kenrith but has to run some pretty meh cards to enable it and seems to have gotten less upgrades, but 5 colors can only be so bad.
@@LemorasCardsI think it's interesting how it is similar to kennrith which is in A tier however adding a few cards that are only there to synergize with the commander can knock it down to the low B high C area. Does that small number of specific card selection really knocking down that far?
@brendanmcclanahan3935 it's also really just hard to evaluate a deck with so little representation. Maybe it could be up there with Kenrith, but Kenrith continually shows up and performs well with very high card quality, is much easier to cast to use in a longer game and take advantage of it's synergy cards, and doesn't have as many awkward dead draws. Tl;dr it's s not a deck I really know enough about to properly rate.
@@LemorasCards that makes a lot of sense. I know they're discord is also pretty small. Hopefully it'll get a couple good cards for it and see more play.
@luketaylor1257 Krrik could be included based on popularity, but its performance is so bad I felt like I didn't have much to say other than putting it in D. Inalla is in a similar boat, and hard to justify over Rog. The rest just aren't very represented.
@@WorldofSoupS hasn't been getting a lot of tops but also just doesn't seem to be getting as much play. Might also be that it can struggle when decks that play through it like Sisay or Magda can often present wins easier.
Nadu is why im taking a break from cedh. Its so frustrating playing against Nadu. Its just, turn off brain and go brrt. 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️ Focusing more on 1v1 format now.
@@LemorasCards If you only look at the tournaments with over 50 participants, a significantly different picture emerges. Nadu doesn't have enough entries to provide a picture you can rely on. Give the meta a few months to adjust to a new deck type. Just to clarify, there are even some commanders (yes plural) who even have a 100% win rate AND a 100% transition ;) are they therefore S-Tier?
@Mr.SpocksBrain I looked at events with 60+ since Nadu was legal. It's not even about conversion rate (it has a high one) it straight up has more top 16s, top 4s, and wins then the other decks. It's obviously not a long period of time, but no deck has had a first month that crazy ever. Obviously as time goes on we'll see where it ends up, I expect a drop into A tier personally.
@@LemorasCards Nadu is here to stay and is finally shaking up the meta a bit. A-Tier seems to be exactly the potential I see. Time will tell us. My experience with Nadu is simply summed up: it plays too many bad cards to be able to keep up in the long term. Very harshly formulated, this year's Winota ;)
What does your cEDH tier list look like? What do you think is the #1 deck? Let me know down below!
Tier list good
My main change would be krak sak in A. The issue is pilot skill has to be HIGH in order to make it work. That’s not a burn on krak players, it’s a statement on why it’s not more played.
@@ryansalmon6507 krak is better now especialy with the flares
I’m glad people are finally giving Magda the respect she deserves. She was treated as a fringe deck for so long, but kept putting up results.
@@pixielilla7369 gotta respect her 😤
Mommy magda
Just built a Magda deck and man is she strong
Magda is a powerhouse
I built her pretty much right when she came out. My community over here in AZ always has a healthy respect for Magda lol
So good to see something challenge Blue Farm for the top spot!! Go Nadu! Go Rog/Si!
As someone who’s been playing atraxa since release I can say food chain does win games and its also easy to bait ppl into thinking you’re going the food chain route by playing mist or scourge early on while I’m actually going for a infinite mana with kitten/teferi then proceed to blink atraxa until I get what I need. Also I like to run unusual combos that ppl just don’t expect like drannith/uba mask
I tried out Witherbloom Apprentice and Chain of Smog for a while in Atraxa. It would always catch players off guard, especially if you Born Upon a Wind and then cast chain, or Silence into it. It was fun, but took too much to set it up and for a creature that doesn't do much otherwise the risk/reward wasn't there in the end.
Based on this, I feel like we need more turbo blood moon decks... Mana denial checks 4/5c in other formats. Not sure what that looks like in cedh
It often shuts off two people at the table and the last player runs away with the game. Blood Moon and Magus still give opponents the chance to play dockside, which instantly makes them win the game.
Tymna Kraum is bound to get weaker over time because of it's lack of identity. Sans Green Good Stuff can only go so far, and if there's something Nadu proved coming super strong right off the bat is how a commander with a very specific strategy can turn obscure cards into bombs (looking at you Shuko), that means Blue farm can only get stronger with new generically strong goodstuff cards while decks like Nadu and SPECIALLY sisay can get much stronger with very wacky new cards that can be just niche good but super strong in their specific decks. By the way Kinnan is getting a huge new dork in Trailtracker Scout, the expend 8 is a joke for the deck with the dork itself pushing for 2 of that, even if the expend does not count for mana spent to activate Kinnan all hardcast fatties will.
I played Atraxa for the past year and a half, and I moved off of it, simply because it's hard to keep up with rog sai or Tymna Kraum, and you're not going off before them most of the time simply to trying to set up the first couple of turns while the other decks are getting straight gas plays to go off quicker. Hoping for a Blind Obedience or Thoracle with counters as back up, is really low vs other faster decks in the format.
Currently playing Krark/Sakashima and I'm absolutely loving it! Solid interaction and plays to win on top of others trying to win. The fact that you can copy a counter and bounce it is super solid and I'm trying to be one of the solid players to represent the deck.
I built Nadu and dominated tables to the point where it got boring. Then everyone was jumping on the Nadu train, so then I built a staxy Magda deck, I called it “BURN THE BIRD”. It was specifically designed to shut Nadu down. I packed the deck with cards like rending volley, ghostfire slice, null elemental blast, fireblast, and the usual stuff I’d normally have in the deck anyway like bottlecap blast, red elemental blast, and pyroblast, all of which bolt the bird for 1 mana. I also run nullrod and tons of artifact destruction because if I can’t deal with Nadu, I’ll deal with his tool box instead. My Magda deck has a 100% win rate against Nadu so far. Also, since Nadu runs blue, their decks are usually packed with counterspells and most of Magda’s interaction isn’t countable by the typical counterspells you commonly see in cedh. You also can pack even more answers to Nadu in a Rog/Si deck too.
I put together a very busted Nadu Cedh deck and was in a pod going against a Rog Si player and it was epic! The Rog si player was going all gas but I had enough interaction to come out on top. I approve this list. #HeIsMyBirdWizard
Can you send me your list of the deck nadu?🙏🏼
Yessssir! Stella pilot here since the precon came out… I played it high power (8/9 no dockside no fast mana… then moved it up
To Cedh level, have made several changes and adjustments and I have it pretty well tuned that it almost always is presenting a win attempt BY turn 3, usually with 1 counter spell to back me up, and I’ve found if I get shut down I am getting back in the game quickly so not as much of a glass cannon as it was when I was playing it at first at the cedh level
Do you have your list id be super interested as a fellow stella grinder
Very informative. Shout out my fellow sissay players.
Glad it was helpful!
Great work, and i love the data supported opinions
I appreciate the rankings and the (super brief) overview of each deck!
My question: what’s a good place to find a recent “stock” decklist for any of these I’m interested in trying? (Magda and Blue Farm first, probably). Edhtop16?
yeah, definitely edhtop16 filtering for newer lists.
Interesting to see how bowmasters really changed the pace of cedh , downgrading a lot of creature decks a couple tiers down
I think you’re right on all those things. Hurts cause Tivit was my first cEDH deck, but I’ve jumped to the turbo rogsi side now
Join us 💀
@@LemorasCards I have! I also saw the Apple Card from assassin’s creed and ran it in another deck. Shut down a blue farm deck just by removing his hand from the game to storm off and go. Undervalued card I think.
I agree with this list! Great one as always!
@@nathanlarsen7847 thank ya! Did my best 👌
Fantastic list! Do you think Niv Mizzet would make this list? If so which Tier?
Thank ya! Maybe low C or even as low as high D? I feel like the metagame hasn't been too kind to Niv.
You evil man!! My deck… the disclaimer actually made me laugh. Great content per usual
Thank you!
Tymna Kraum in my opinion is the #1 cedh deck as of right now
@gordypordy7379 always a safe bet!
This has been a commonly held opinion for quite some time.
ngl, i think the deck is slowly getting nudged off its throne.
@@tehguy0 definitely looks like it!
hottest cedh take
I play tivit and can confirm it's too damn slow for the meta. Even with the perfect start (Blind Obedience, Drannith, counterbalance, etc.) it still loses to sisay and blue farm.
List looks accurate to me! Now just need to team up with some mardu players to get back on the tiers for fall. I personally have talion, OB, and marneus built up to test against and loan to other players. And Vohar runs laps over talion and Ob. Ob gets turned off real easy thats its biggest weakness. and talion just doesn't close games and might draw you too little if you call the wrong number. Marneus has the atraxa/tivit problem in that it needs time to set up before it dominates. But I do think if more pilots were on it and figuring it out it could move up a tier. Malcom vialsmasher I also think has potential to move up a tier if more committed pilots were on it that deck wins out of thin air and has the right pivots and protection. Malcom tymna I think just needs a couple more defining cards to get it there. hopefully pollywag and dour port might be the gas it needs. Jeska Tymna is cooking and I feel pretty strong at tables with that pair definitely could break through with more tourney entries. looking forward to see how meta shifts. right now i think a lot of higher tier decks are not running enough permanent removal to deal with magda and nadus OP artifacts that they drop and win with.
Solid list! Just a little heads up. You talk about Sisay having two main builds but just explain the classis build in more detail. Could confuse those not knowing about Clam Chowder. Especially since you mention that deck before but then don’t mention it again on sisay. Keep up the good work!
Yeah could've gone into more detail on it here, was trying to keep things brief but maybe should've given a little description.
Lesss Goo im building *TYMNA KRAUM* for the first time im glad i have lemora to lean on
Sound reasoning behind all the choices, even if I am sad to see most of my favorites languishing in C 😭
Where would you put that Erinis/Street Urchin deck? That honestly seems underplayed to me for how well it’s been doing
Ooooh, that's a tough one. Based on my knowledge of it I think it's probably a pretty real B tier contender, but it's hard to say. If it was more popular I could see people understanding it better and it struggling to do quite as well. I definitely think it's a C at minimum.
No Rocco? i Do think that Rocco is a good deck, also, Captain Sissay performed wonderfully at the last tournement i was in.
Pleasantly surprised that you put Malcolm vial at B tier. It’s my pet deck and it’s very easy to snag wins with it
Where would you put K'rrik? New to cEDH personally, but the one deck I've brewed with him seems incredibly strong
@BeanutPutter01 He has high potential but is performing very poorly recently, would sadly put him in D even though it's a really cool deck I think has some cool strengths to it. Could see it moving up for sure.
Red taking over, besides Nadu lol
Bro im a new atraxa player, been playing it for some 2 months, I feel deck really slow compared to other decks in store, I try to accommodate stax pieces but I really struggle to win with it, although I really like the commander
@luistonicher2152 yeah it's a bit on the slower side. Can keep rocking it if you enjoy it but there are definitely similar options if you find it lacking!
Wish I saw this before spending hours building and proxy atraxa
@jacobpearlman7451 still a playable deck for sure if you enjoy it, and if you do switch it's full of staple cards you can bring to your next deck.
Etali, yuriko, ob all on the list but no inalla.... dedicated 4 mana 1 card combo machine. Multiple layered combos and a smooth midgame to coast. Where'd she go from people's memory. Man you even put marneus. I cry. Good video! but there's some slight tier 2 on here def. And I understand there's a clear division
@MrMargiritaMan Inalla is a weird one because it's basically doing absolutely horribly recently BUT I can't imagine it's actually that bad and is mainly just getting ignored.
@@LemorasCards right I agree, for me recently it's been looking like a grixis creature deck that absolutely play the midrange compared to the "turbo" rog package with an additional 1 card combo. But she def can make a spot in the meta and is unique in the value she can provide. I def think she's one slipping under the cracks. And maybe she's under the weather this month. I thought she was at a 24% conversion last month. But with the addition of lively dirge and wanderwine 1 card creature combo she's a baller. Has creature creature combo, 1 cast combos and dedicated stuff for certain stax. I'm just sad she's falling by the wayside
@@SlimiestSlime I expect her to move back up and get more love going forward.
I will take your D list Yuriko and play it in edh…just fun big/free spells with my favorite creature type
The D decks are high power edh decks. I run yuriko for that reason but without the cedh staples and actually play around her ability and fast aggro and its fun 👍🏻
great list once again thx lemora
@@thomasantoine6194 thank you!
Where would you put Urza in the current meta? Great vid!
Rog/Si is “kinda hard to play”. I couldn’t agree more. Played it for the first time and I was struggling 😂 got the win though. Definitely want to learn it better
@@mikeblanchard931 it's worth putting the work in!
Tier list bad....
Now that i got that out of my system. Thank you for another amazing video. I think you are doing a great job explaining and talking about the CEDH community. I feel like you do a really good job of explaining why decks are where they are. And I feel as if you have good grasp on the ideas. I would love to have you do more interviews with people who get high ranks in CEDH tournaments. If you can reach out to get a tournament or deck brake down. Hear it from the people who are playing those decks at the highest tables. And get there insite. As I feel like seeing things from there prospective would be really helpful for some of the newer players, or people who want to understand a deck better and done have the full reps just yet.
( Also I'm going to have to ask you to please quit talking nicely about rog/si.. Please put them down about 2 tiers. And tell people its a bad deck. As I am a rog/si player.. And people are already out for my head.. if you say its better then T&K then I don't have any more political capital. And I would like more paper tiger propaganda posted so people quit paying attention to us. Thank you. )
@Rageancharge1337 thank you a ton! I might have to look into doing some of that soon.
been loving stella lee
Where do we think Temur Pirates sits? C/D ?
@@AreJay2006 feels about right for how it's doing.
It was suprising for me to see Rakdos The Muscle having better stats than Ob lately. Maybe its the respect factor? People have come to understand Ob and its pop off while not so much so for Rakdos yet? (Also doesn't benefit off of opponent actions, so people probably are less scared of it coming down early and don't kill/counter it right away?) Just kinda interesting to me! Only 9 entries (same as blood pod, RIP), but an insane 44% conversion...
PS, there is no deck with more entries that has a better conversion rate. Still it's obviously going to drop going forward... Just by how much??
@verzun8470 I'm excited to see how it develops. It is probably a case of knowing that Rakdos will always be face up casting its own spells to get value so you can answer some other part of it later or kill it before whatever the other piece is.
It does represent an interesting space since so many of its most broken synergies are with creatures which could be tough to answer.
My main deck is etali now and its great people need realize its turbo deck if etali isnt on battlfield turn 1 or turn 2 you not winning but if you get him turn 1 turn 2 its pretty much gg every time. Got so many wins turn 1 its crazy
thanks for the video man, btw where do you see the conversion rate ?
Thank ya, edhtop16.com is the best place to go for those stats.
Nice! Great vid dude 🤙
@@deeds2r thank you!
Seein marneus calgar in the list but not tymna /Malcolm which is the best esper option in cedh in the current midrange meta kinda hurt 🤯
I did give that one the nod during the Malcolm/Vial section. Tymna/Malcolm ks definitely the best performing of the esper lists and would slot into high B for me right now, though I would like to see more entries to get a better view of it.
I'm new to CEDH and am running food chain Atraxa. Can you tell me why food chain is not good? Is it too easy to interact with?
@dougryan2620 Basically, it's very easy to interact with and requires very bad cards to work with it, and it's an infinite mana combo that can never pay for Rhystic Study because it only generates creature mana, really just a few different awkward things about it that make it tend to struggle.
Very good points. Thank you for taking the time to reply 🙂
Nice helpful Video.
I am starting to thinking about cedh but cant decide which deck as a not experienced Pilot in the Format.
Can someone advise ,especially when i just bought Gaias Cradle and Serras Sanctum,but the Original Duals are financiall out of Range ?
Honestly, price wise Nadu might be your best bet if you aren't able to use proxies. It has a pretty simple gameplan, only runs one OG dual land, which you could acquire eventually, and most of the other expensive cards it runs are staples of the format you can use in any deck.
Currently reworking Marneus to mqke it faster and consistent. MH3 has added a couple of pieces that help with the value engineel
Hey. Would you share your decklist? I restartet Magic with the Marneus Precon and i upgraded it. I would love a cedh Deck with him as a second option...
Im building a thaliagitroc full stax versus nadu. Ooph, blind ob, drann, archon, drana and linvala and so on...
Happy Yuriko is still here, even if lowest tier
best cedh content channel on youtube rn
@@willmatson3103 hell yeah! Thank you!
I agree completely with this list.
@kenlikescarbs wow that's wild, best comment i could get! If I'm wrong, it's good to know I'm wrong in good company 👍
can you provide a detailed answer as to why tivit’s time sieve combo is awkward in tournaments?
I believe it’s because Tivit is a slow deck. If the game goes to time It can’t win with time sieve. Since time sieve requires extra turns.
I haven’t played in a cedh tournament but this would be my guess
@@jessepurdy6950 sure but so many other combos can be disrupted in awkward ways, even thoracle which is considered the best combo in cedh by many can make you lose the game if someone forces you to cantrip. I'm not being defensive here, I just got the feeling that he had some specific point in mind that I'd like to understand...
@thiagorebello Yes! Probably should've mentioned more about this, but Time Sieve has a few logistics issues in tournaments. 3 player pods or a player being dead means it's offline, and maybe most notably that once time in the round is called, you can't continue taking extra turns as the match is over at the end of the current turn.
I’m a bit curious as to where you would see Thrasios // Vial Smasher atm
@@robertphillips7943 probably B tier but I think it's strong enough to be A if it saw more play. I actually believe in that deck quite a bit.
I think sisay is as good as farm. Just harder to play. I love rog si .. my favorite deck. But when I switch to farm the game just feels easier. I’m not punished as hard for mistakes til I get to top 16
nageela imo belongs in S teir with blue farm and sissay
What do you think of throwing Nadu in the 98 of Rog/Thras? I’m testing it out and so far its been incredible.
@@EroticaMax what enablers for it are you running?
I’m running Trinket Mage and super bad card Shuko which isn’t needed at all tbh but just cranks your engine up to nuclear powered. With so many bounce and copy effects in the deck I think Nadu slots right in kinda like Six - not essential and not a combo piece but just provides so much gas.
Magda is the Queen of the mountain ❤
what would be your preferred malcolm&vial list?
@danielcarrillo4800 hmmm Lily has been one of the most consistent performers with the list maybe so might point you towards hers: www.moxfield.com/decks/15hDq43PYEOLYgzEtjMKLA
Where would you place K’rrik? I’d imagine D or F since he’s a glass cannon
@@tmore3 yeah in D tier, decently popular with poor recent results.
I run slimefoot and squee awesome fun deck
Nobody is playing my 4 color pile 😢 thrasios vial smasher
Kinnan is underrated AF 🤣
How many letters down is Elsha of the Infinite XD or like either of the Narsets or Jeska//Ishai if you think they’re a better Jeskai pile than Elsha :)
@OmegaX117 probably like C? I haven't seen it much, but it can't be that bad. Just runs into the "why not add black and play tymna/kraum" camp. Probably has B tier potential.
Yuriko might not be great with high power level cEDH.. but damn, Yuriko can sneak in some epic mid-late game wins in a casual setting without anyone wanting to punch you, since you're top card revealing to win and not interfering with other player's plays other than a good counterspell or doomblade.
Wish I saw Tameshi on here
It's a deck with good results but would be VERY hard for me to accurately rank it with how little representation it gets.
Where would you place dihada on this?
@js_injection3978 probably in C, still has potential, hasn't really shown much of it lately that I've seen at least.
@@LemorasCards Yeah it's definitely not being played a lot right now. As turbo goes I think it has a lot potential but just needs more exposure/pilots lol
Nadu Summer baby!!!!
@@GoldSabertooth THE NADU SUMMER IS REALLLLLL
We have now officially all heard.
That the Bird is the Word.
Where is jhoira, the weather light captain 😢
8:23 What are conversion rates?
@M15CH13F how often a deck makes top 16 in a tournament per entry. If you have 100 entries for a deck, and 25 top 16s, you get a 25% conversion rate.
@@LemorasCards thank you!
Where is Winota?
@@Boof4K Resting in peace 🙏🏼 doesn't really show up much any more.
Yo who tf is Lemora, and what cards do they have?!?!
It's me, I'm the one with the Rog/Si cards.
no tayam, huge mistake missing that.
tayam's good yeah, his combos aren't interactable in typical ways
Just started, no Gitrog??
While it's a fan favorite, I don't think Gitrog has been very competitively relevant in the entire time I've run this channe unfortunatelyl. It has pretty recently got some new interesting support, though.
I dont think nadu is best deck but its easily top5 imo and better than kinnan by a lot
how do you feel about winota nowadays?
@ryanr532 still has to be respected but just doesn't seem to put in any results.
Ban nadu in every format enough said
Winota was very dominate
What about Tayam?
Bird Gang
Stella Lee B tier
CedhTV: REEEEEEEEE
Let’s go magda
I noticed there was only one Krark pairing deck on this list... They must really be losing on those flips
@@alanoftheinfinite krark/saka is on here!
@@LemorasCards I misspoke! I figured Krark-Thras would make it onto the list but it's far less popular
yeah i love krark/sak but where the hell is my boy krark/silas (grixis krark is unstopable)
What about ur dragon, or eldrazi?
Nadu 💀
It's despicable
Bird up!
Where is my boy krrik
@kevin171994 D tier unfortunately, pretty popular but doing real poorly right now.
Tymna tana?
My boy Gaddock Teeg at the top!!! ❤❤❤
Wait... he's not? $hit. Lol.
SSS+ tier
@@LemorasCards Yes!!!!
This is quite random; if at least would make sense with data análisis from cEDH TV I would consider it valuable information :(
where's gitrog. best deck in the format.
you think i'm joking? put her on there coward.
Wheres my cutie patootie derevi
Damn someone is missing fr
Its pretty niche but where would you place the Scion of the ur dragon decks that pop up every now and then?
Oh interesting question. Probably high C depends on looking at results. It does have some issues where it's pretty similar to Kenrith but has to run some pretty meh cards to enable it and seems to have gotten less upgrades, but 5 colors can only be so bad.
@@LemorasCardsI think it's interesting how it is similar to kennrith which is in A tier however adding a few cards that are only there to synergize with the commander can knock it down to the low B high C area. Does that small number of specific card selection really knocking down that far?
@brendanmcclanahan3935 it's also really just hard to evaluate a deck with so little representation. Maybe it could be up there with Kenrith, but Kenrith continually shows up and performs well with very high card quality, is much easier to cast to use in a longer game and take advantage of it's synergy cards, and doesn't have as many awkward dead draws.
Tl;dr it's s not a deck I really know enough about to properly rate.
@@LemorasCards that makes a lot of sense. I know they're discord is also pretty small. Hopefully it'll get a couple good cards for it and see more play.
Notable exclusions: Tayam, K'rrik, Krak/Thras, Winota, Codie, Timeshi, Inalla
@luketaylor1257 Krrik could be included based on popularity, but its performance is so bad I felt like I didn't have much to say other than putting it in D. Inalla is in a similar boat, and hard to justify over Rog. The rest just aren't very represented.
Is tayam not doing as well anymore?
@@WorldofSoupS hasn't been getting a lot of tops but also just doesn't seem to be getting as much play. Might also be that it can struggle when decks that play through it like Sisay or Magda can often present wins easier.
nadu is the most brainless deck ever, it literally plays itself.
Shukos Up
Shukos up!
Nadu is why im taking a break from cedh.
Its so frustrating playing against Nadu. Its just, turn off brain and go brrt.
🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
Focusing more on 1v1 format now.
Nadu is not near S-tier…
It's performing better than every other deck since it's released by pretty much every metric. Where should I have put it?
@@LemorasCards If you only look at the tournaments with over 50 participants, a significantly different picture emerges. Nadu doesn't have enough entries to provide a picture you can rely on. Give the meta a few months to adjust to a new deck type. Just to clarify, there are even some commanders (yes plural) who even have a 100% win rate AND a 100% transition ;) are they therefore S-Tier?
@Mr.SpocksBrain I looked at events with 60+ since Nadu was legal. It's not even about conversion rate (it has a high one) it straight up has more top 16s, top 4s, and wins then the other decks.
It's obviously not a long period of time, but no deck has had a first month that crazy ever. Obviously as time goes on we'll see where it ends up, I expect a drop into A tier personally.
@@LemorasCards Nadu is here to stay and is finally shaking up the meta a bit. A-Tier seems to be exactly the potential I see. Time will tell us. My experience with Nadu is simply summed up: it plays too many bad cards to be able to keep up in the long term. Very harshly formulated, this year's Winota ;)