40 cal Flintlock Testing at 50 Yards | American Longrifles Forum November Postal Match | Kibler SMR
Вставка
- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- Link to the match - americanlongrifles.org/forum/...
Learn more at ilovemuzzleloading.com
Today we're trying out the American Longrifles Forum's November Postal match with my Kibler Southern Mountain Rife. This is a .40 cal flintlock I built last winter and this is the first time we're trying it at 50 yards.
Click here to SUBSCRIBE - bit.ly/ILMvideo
Join the NMLRA today to learn more about muzzleloading - NMLRA.org
VIDEO CHAPTERS
0:00 Target and Safety
2:00 Loading for Target 1
6:22 Target 1 Review
7:05 Target 2 Planning
7:44 Target 2 Firing
7:54 Target 2 Review
8:48 Target Comparisson
10:05 Conclusion
Muzzleloading, muzzleloader, muzzle loader, mountain man, longhunter, bushcraft, living history, longrifle, flintlock, blackpowder
#muzzleloader #muzzleloading #blackpowder
I shoot 55 grains of 3fg in my 40 cal flintlock. I like a .400 ball and .018 patch but even a thicker patch is worth trying but it’s a little difficult to start the ball. I use Murphy’s Oil Soap cut with 10% rubbing alcohol for my lube. This load in a Rice barrel has worked really well for me over the years. I’m 71 years old and started shooting Muzzleloaders at age 16. Helped to start a Muzzleloading gun club in 1976. ( The Buck Creek Muzzleloaders) We just held our 45th annual Turkey Shoot. I’m Still learning new things amount Muzzleloaders all the time. Your videos are excellent. I like your style. Hey our clubs annual Trade Fair is January 22 & 23 , 2022 at the Linton Indiana City Park Roy Clark Building. Try to attend.
Interesting load…I have Mowrey .40 Silhouette that I haven’t pushed past 45 grs yet, but have gotten some good groups with. I’ll have to try pushing it a bit. I’m 73 years and still learning as well…a wonderful thing…keeps it all interesting!
I 'd be excited to hit the paper 10 times! ...LOL .....I enjoy visiting The muzzleloading forum too.
You really ARE a maniac!
I'm saving my pennies for one of Jim's rock locks.
That's all I can think of. Dream, day-dream, driving down the road, eating, watching ingin movies, the news, the weather, the menues, the at the gas station, picking up the dog doo, at the stop light, getting grocery s, at the court room for driving too slow , at the laundry, for taking too long, grocery shopping, for forgetting the lard, please.....is there any way to change the trajectory of my fate? Am I destin to this evil?
Hey there!! I find when I tamp down on the ball too much after loading, I consistently have a slight hang fire with both of my rifles (percussion locks). I feel like it compresses the powder so much, I create more of a fuse than a charge. After seeing CapnBall avoiding tamping altogether, and simply applying light, downward pressure in order to prevent damaging his rounds, I began doing the same thing (or very lightly tapping down with my range rod). Now, I very consistently achieve instantaneous ignition of each charge. I'm quite new to the sport, so I'm no expert or anything. Where I live, there's no club or anything, so I just absolutely love having the chance to talk to anybody about anything black powder, even if I'm dead wrong about something! Hehehe... Thank you so much for the video!!
How hard are you tamping? And what powder? I’ve not noticed anything but I’d love to hear more
I've never felt the need to fire a pan of powder before loading. I dry it, pick it, load it and pick it again then prime it. No powder residue left in the bottom of the pan to attract moisture. But whatever works.
A frizzen cover and a lock cover a must in damp and cold weather. Flintlocks don't like cold wet feet lol. In humid weather I use 3f or even 2 f in the pan to prime. Bees wax on the pan rim help too. I always clean my pan frizzen stone with rag and alcohol between shots. Never prime a dirty pan unless life depends on it .
Definitely, each time I cleaned the pan, it went off without a hitch, though I imagine if I was out on a hunt it would delay with any amount of time between loading and firing. Thank you for the tips!
"Pan frizzen stone". You mean the flint? And why a seperate cover for the lock and frizzen? Is the frizzen not part of the lock?
@@Nick-wn1xw Yes I make a frizzen cover out of a finger from a leather gloves to slide over it . I stich it down one side to make it fit and have a shoe lace tied to it so I can slip it off and shot. I tie the other end to trigger guard. This protect the frizzen from cold and mosture and oil. From your fingers. I also use a separate lock cover to protect the whole lock .
I just ordered the same rifle this weekend from Jim in the same caliber. I can't wait to assemble it and start working up a load. Thanks for the video and for sharing your insight.
I hope you enjoy it as much as I'm enjoying mine!
I grew up shooting those muzzle loaders your knowledge of your equipment is beyond question in my humble opinion. Jerry Rice was a family friend growing up in Georgia as well as a neighbor for a couple of years.
Did competition shooting years ago with an Enfield Rifled musket. Service charge was 60 gr but target load was best at 42 or 43 gr at 50 yds.
Once I got the tightest group played around with rear sight.
Used solder and a knife file.
Blair Clifford-I love muzzloaders too. Flintlocks and caplocks. Contemporary handmade rifles and smooth bores. I enjoy your channel. These are my favorite firearms.
Thanks for sharing Blair!
Nice rifle! I love it. I dream to have a Kibler's SMR but for the moment it's not possible. Good luck with the shooting!
I would say, that I would lap the barrel first. Then start at 25, get the group to touch or clover leaf the 5 shots. Then go to 50 yrds. And start over. Good vedio thanks
Thanks for watching broken toe, I agree the barrel needs breaking in for sure
I agree, i do the red 3m metal polishing trick i learned from duellist1954..
I treat all my barrels to a good polishing. And every now and then a followup polishing.
Consistent pressure on the ram-rod of about 25 pounds seems to help.
I have seen guys use a bathroom scale to get the feel for it.
Try gluing a 2-1/2" piece of bronze wound guitar string into a bit of deer antler for a vent pick. The bronze
Wire will rasp out the fouling without enlarging the touch-hole.
Of course a peep sight will cut your groups in half too, if you can find one that looks primitive enough.
Thanks for all you do.
very interesting ! I would suggest bumping your powder charge way up.... like double it !
and you are definitely seeing a delay in the flintlock when the hammer falls it should go boom not a pa-boom that you were getting check the powder hole and make sure the hole has a straight shot into the powder in the barrel and you may need to drill out the hole to a slightly larger size.... your powder for the flintlock needs to be very small grain to get into the barrel... I have read where you have to have 2 different powders triple f (FFF) for the pan, and then double f (FF) for the barrel.... this makes sense if you think about it as the powder in the pan has to go into the "touch hole" in order to set off the barrel charge.
I also have read where many flintlock rifles being sold are really messed up on the "touch hole" some are half way blocked off in fact... so check yours ! the slight delay is probably just using the wrong powder for the pan try a finer grain powder on a clean gun and see if the delay goes away (FFFF)..... half a second delay between the trigger pull and the gun firing is not unheard of at all with cheaper flintlocks and it is all due to the way they drilled the hole into the breach plug.... that can be fixed! (there should be no difference between a percussion ignition and a flintlock if the gun is working top notch !) (NO REALLY !)
I much prefer the cheep guns myself $350.00 is really a bunch of money to me !...
finding a flintlock for that little is not easy ! ....i've been looking !
although I made a 50cal cap and ball pistle years ago from scrap I am so intrigued about a flint lock lately, I think I will try to convert it to flintlock.... that should be a wild adventure !
and tighten the rear sight height adjustment about 1/4 turn and you should have it !
.... I am not an expert on flintlocks, that is just what I've picked up on the internet. talk to someexperts and see how they sujest to get rid of the delay.... some guns have a delay that you cannot get rid of..... but I bet I could LOL !
good video! Forty caliber flintlocks are great; in Arkansas they can be an all around gun, because Arkansas allows the .40 Cal for small game and even deer and bear!!! One gun for all seasons.
Love the videos! Keep them coming!
Thanks! Will do!
Never heard that. "The original American sport" I like it.
Especially because it's my favorite.
Kind Thanks! I was just shooting yesterday and what your saying about the entire process and slowing down time is very apparent and Lovely! It’s like Zen Black Powder! I always say that it’s like shooting history. I have an 1829 Army issue N. Starr 69cal. I restored years back. Originally flintlock the Army converted it to cap and ball. There is a brass insert where the flash pan had been. So nearly 200 years old and most likely used in the Civil War and who knows where else? It’s holding and shooting history in hand. You get this with replicas as well. I have a50 Hawkens and 1851 Navy and 1860 Army. Ihave these because of my connection to the past, my ancestry and that Zen Dimension we find ourselves in. The modern world is truly a rat race but Zen Shootin is Rootin Tootin Time Stopping Fun! As You well know! You do a great job and Many Thanks and Blessings! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania
Great video Ethan. Okay, I'm convinced now to get a Kibler.40 SMR.
Thank you Allen. It's a great rifle in my opinion!
I really enjoyed this. For match shooting, keeping a patch damp in your mouth, and doing a quick wipe between shots will cause one load to shoot like the last, and it will help prevent the stuck ball syndrome. It also makes cleanup way easier because there isn't a lot of stuff down there when you go home. If you do get a stuck ball from having caked up grooves, a little water trickled down the bore will dissolve the fouling and allow you to pull the ball without a lot of fuss. Then just wipe it before you reload. The water doesn't get to the breach just to the stuck ball, and frees the patch from the residue so you can pull the ball. Just use a little water and if you don't have the desired result use a tiny bit more and it will come loose. No need to pound or tap the ball with the rod, when you load, it will only harm the ball. One last comment, don't fire a pan full to clean the touch hole, it has the opposite effect. Clean it with a vent pick. I like to use a feather from a small bird. They are lying around on the ground, and they don't wear the touch hole, and the quill won't break off. Be discerning don't use one that's too wide, or you'll think I'm an idiot. Beautiful rifle. I just got a .36 from James Turpin in Kansas.
Thanks for the great tips James! I’ll add them to my notes!
.40 cal 40 grains of Goex 3F .395 ball pillow ticking patch Douglass barrel 1 to 1.5 in groups at 50yd. In general I have migrated to larger balls, using .451 in my .45 cal also a Douglass barrel.
A great video Ethan! This is my favorite way to shoot. Shoot a group, and then change one thing at a time and see what the result is. My suggestion is to settle on a patch size first. If your patches aren't burning through or being cut, then adjust your load, as you were doing in this video. Once you settle on a load, try changing your patch lube. A little more, a little less, etc. But (1) patch (2) load then (3) lube. Have fun and thanks for the videos!!
I shot not long ago... spent lots of time looking for patches.... never found a single one! I searched repeatedly. Next range trip I'm taking a leaf blower to clear the area.!
If you can find it Original Mink oil waterproofing sealer makes a pretty decent lube also .
I agree my flintlocks double as a time mach. Or time stretcher?
😜i luv it
Have you ever looked at Dutch Schultz’s book on improving accuracy? I have seen a great improvement in my shooting since I began following his principles. He has passed away, but his daughter is carrying on with his booklet. Well worth it!
I’ll check that out!!
I made a 40 cal. percussion gun from scratch and make my own black powder. Fun to shoot!
Hey Ethan I just got the same rifle In 36. How did you finish your cherry stock or is there a video I missed I would much appreciate hearing what you did it looks great.
Not bad... Just a little friendly suggestion (and I do know this was a Forum Postal Match) however, if you really want to tighten up your groups from 50 yards & (all yardages for that matter) shoot at the smallest target you can see... You don't have to see it well - but it's help you (and everyone else as far as this is concerned) to instinctively always go to the center of your target, no matter the size. Easier said then done (I know) but you will get better results in the long run. 👍
Thank you! That’s a great idea
good shooting Ethan. Glad you didn't dry ball it on camera. Yep, 3 kinds of muzzle loader shooters, those who have dry balled, those who will dry ball and those who have but lied about it. :). (joking). Hey on your rifle, try changing the point where the muzzle is resting on the bench support. Move it farther toward the muzzle or closer to the breech. That can make a difference in point of impact. Unlike modern rifles these barrels are not free-floated. That rifle is going off well for you.
Thanks for watching Jeff! I'll have to try adjusting the rest. I can say I've dryballed many times, thankfully not on camera.
Your ignition looked better in shooting the second target. Might be good to redo your test sometime to verify that it was the powder charge that caused the group size to change & not your ignition.
The original American sport would have to go to stickball or similar game. But shooting is an old one, to be sure. And darned fun.
Ethan I am coveting your rifle. After things slow down and the new year starts up I'll be contacting Kibler myself. Is your's a straight barrel or swamped? I'm having a hard time figuring out which I want but I do want a .40 cal. When I was shooting in a local club the first thing I noticed was that all the top shooters swabbed the bore after every round. Happy New Year.
Ethan I’ve found when loading patched round balls that having about the same amount of cloth on all sides when loading help’s with accuracy. When I got the alinement off center ,it threw my bullet off target . Doesn’t make sense . patch blow out will rune your accuracy 😢
I should’ve 400 round ball with an 18,000 patch works really well for me
Great!
Hey, I shoot just like your first group. Great video.
Thanks for watching!
I would also suggest stepping up a patch size, find a couple of patches from down range and give them a look. Maybe a different patch lube? But one thing at a time. And as you say bumping up powder 5 grains at time. “They” also say different brands can change POI too, as well as grain size. Im no expert, but “ they” have got me overthinking everything, lol out of Goex(worked fine, 2F, .015 pillow patch) now Schutzen, cant get my groups, and HAVE to swab after each shot. Load development, huh? Lol
PS, hows that Gemmer doing?
Thank you, I was so cold I didn't check the patches but that would be a great way to find out more.
Powder definitely will change things, Schuetzen burns a bit hotter so you normally don't need as much as GOEX. It's so easy to overthink, I know I do it too! In the end, just means more time at the range so I can't complain...
I was going to say if your working up loads 5grain increases and try different thicknesses of patch materials. And try different lubes also i have watched videos of several shooters who use Original Mink Oil for lube .
Thanks for the tips! I look forward to trying them out!
Personally I start with the same grains of powder as the bore of the rifle. I go up in 5 grains increments. Two of my 50 cal guns perform best with 80 grains while another does it best at 65 grains.
Would that just go pop in the pan. I am sure it's not going to blow anything through the touch hole. Vent pick would be the way to go?
Thanks for the video. I shoot the big 58s and 62s, looking at a smaller bore and 40 sounded different. How do you like it?
I really like shooting 40 myself, it’s “cheap to feed” as I like to put it. Great for woodswalks and calm matches among friends.
When sighting in and working up loads would you recommend weighing powder.I was told to measure by vol7me but I could see how that could not be as accurate as weighing to get loads worked up,
Traditional blackpowder is nice because it's the same dimension for volume and weight. So ideally, my volume measurements are the same as they would be if I weighed.
Now, you can get more precise by weighing if that's what you are looking for, but for me and this rifle, I'm not looking to win a championship so I stuck to volume. Hope this helps!
The flintlock seems to have a large delay. I´ve seen brown bess muskets with lower delay.🙂
When you are sighting in a rifle on a UA-cam video, there needs to be a conversation about filing sights down and drifting them left or right. For hunting, this is not so important. For target shooting and competition, this is everything.
Excellent point John. I believe I talked about this in my Kibler sighting in video, but I can't be sure. I'm planning on talking about it in depth later this fall. I hope this helps alleviate any confusion.
Hey feller you can improve your groups tremedously by not looking over the sights i noticed your barrel drops 4 to 6 inches every time you fire maybe your a bit shy of the recoil
Maybe your trying to look over the front sight to see the ball hit the target
Thanks!
@@ILoveMuzzleloading welcome sir i admit i may have screwed that comment up but your barrel dropping certainly is having a negative effect on your accuracy also your bench rest should probably raised up some it seemed as if your rifle was bit low for your height any way be cool and hope you get the deer of a lifetime this year
I shoot 60 grains of goex 3 f powder, works perfectly.
Awesome!
I’m curious, why did you choice a .40 caliber rifle? I’ve got one because I came across it cheap do to it’s poor condition. Reconditioned it came out great.
I have other rifles for hunting, I like shooting .40 for matches and hanging out with friends. It’s also cheap to feed.
Good video! I am thinking about a Kibler SMR, but I am not sure what caliber to get, 36 or 40? I will probably use it at the range, plinking and small game like rabbits. I understand 40 is too small for deer, but is it too big for rabbit and squirrel? How about coyote? Love to hear your thoughts on the subject?😎
I think .40 is fine for small game myself. It's a big hole in the target compared to the 32 but I think it's a better all around caliber than the 36. Getting that small on a rifle makes me a little nervous but that could just be me being afraid to break ramrods, hahah!
Thanks, good point about the ramrod. In terms of weight, tge OD of the barrel is the same between 36 and 40, so I suspect the 40 weighs less?
Instead of filling the pan and firing it to clear the vent get a vent pick. If the vent is plugged shooting a pan of powder may not clear it plus its a waste ofbpowder. Nice video.
Thanks George! I learned it from match shooting at the NMLRA, but you are right in many cases a vent pick will do the job.
I like to drop about ten grains of powder down the bore and charge the pan and fire it off to burn off the oil in the breach and touch hole.
I have less trouble with miss fires or hang fires when I do that.
To my opinion the load is a litle high, on my 45 pedersoli kentucky I use 37grs of swiss 3 f with a maxiball bullet off hand . What kind of powder do you use? maybe 30 grain would be good for target shooting to get a realy tight group.
And I saw you move a lot sedewards with the recoil. Do you have to push the gun sight to the target? Try this : get the gun in shooting position, get on target and than close your eyes. Take a deep breath than breath out . Now you still should be on the target with the right side direction. If not change your position untill it fits. The same will work for off hand as well.....
Please give me an reply how it works 😁😜
Before I forget...... it is a beautyful gun
Thanks! You are shooting a mighty light load over there, I can appreciate that. I'll try to get the flintlocks out again soon and try what you recommend! Thanks for watching.
I notice your camera sound cuts out when she goes off. Mines does too.
My suggestion would be to try off hand, I actually feel like I prefer off hand rather than bench.
I think your shooting just fine, all dead deer anyhow!
yeah man, I think the cameras don’t like the boom haha.
I like shooting offhand, comically enough the groups are a little tighter, all be it at 25 yards. Looking forward to getting it out more
@@ILoveMuzzleloading There's definitely truth to that. My best group was 3 shots at 75 yards, under 2 inches. Offhand, I can't even do that on a bench. Weird.
Not to get woo woo on it, but I think many times we are more in tune with the rifle when it’s just in our hands, there’s a connection there
Was your patching dry or damp? For me, using Lehigh or Shenandoah I prefer damp. But I use bear grease for hunting. I don’t believe you need larger ball. .395 ball with .018 or .020 patches should be fine but reclaimed patches should tell the story. I’ve found when I have vertical or horizontal stringing (which you don’t have)in my pattern that’s usually a clue of needing a tighter patch/ball combo. I tend to think as much as the pattern tightened from going from 40-50gr, that 55 will probably be your best load and then 60 will probably start to blow out again. But I’d try 55 and 60 yet.
With small calibers, they don’t always like a dirty barrel. My .36 can shoot 4 or 5 shots depending on humidity before getting erratic. That one shot that was slightly outside the pattern maybe your 5th shot. I’d mark each shot until I determined when I need to swab the barrel.
Great tip thank you Gene!!
Thank you for the insight! Very helpful. I'll try as soon as I can.
Anyone try FF in a .40 cal? I have an SMR kit on the way but mainly have FF on hand with my .75 cal.
Might foul a bit more, but you may not even notice
Is your barrel patina how did you do that
I used Brownell's Oxpho Blue.
My process was
1) Apply a full coat, let dry
2) Use water to get a scotch brite pad damp and gently scrub the barrel. This will remove some of the patina, but we want that.
3) Dry the barrel
Repeat steps 1-3 until you get the desired color. I applied 3 coats on this barrel.
How many grains you put in the pan
I don’t measure I just eyeball it, I try to get less than half the pan full
I built quite a few a bought many both percussion and flint mostly flint in later years I found if I took a brand new barrel and make a tight cloth plug put oil and abrasive mix little more abrasive than tooth paste Flitz metal polish comes to mind run that patch both ways for 50 full lengths then another50 strokes in the breach area try leave the muzzle alone though. You will feel when it is smooth enough you should never cut a patch and oh use a bore guide and be careful, for targets largest ball tightest patch consistency is utmost cigarette papers under the ball to test for patch size. Try rest way out on muzzle of barrel instead of in close to you oh ya my own cast balls were always better accuracy than any swaged commercial balls. Always weigh balls pick only within center of the range only perfect for matches and tests. Always sprue up I always cut patches at the barrel always try load exactly same every time 5grain up powder until you find sweet spot try to shoot a few fowlers before shooting score and I never found any lube in summer better than spit except after 20 rounds spit is hard to find. One last thing these barrels with a proper fitting ball combinations with proper load is capable of all balls touching at 100 yds if you do your part obviously powder can have an effect and if you tap the ramrod three times at the muzzle do it every time hope this helps someone may God bless and keep your powder dry
Thanks so much Don!
Lots in my head starting to forget
But how many shots on that barrel? It takes about two hundred or so before a barrel is broken in. You should be recovering and reading your patches; fresh, sharp rifling will shred them and whack accuracy. I found the tighter the ball, the tighter the group.
Great tips Bob! I'm over the break in point for the barrel now for sure and it's shooting well still. Probably a bit better than in the video. Perhaps it's something I need to return to.
Friend drew down on a large doe. Cap went off . So did the deer
No way would it fire. Got it home and found about an inch of stink bugs nestled in the bores breach. So - good idea on the muzzle patch for storage.
Those bugs will get in anywhere!
Don't pound the ball with the loading rod. Use one smooth push all the way down......
Thanks Howard! Do you notice a difference?
@@ILoveMuzzleloading . When you use one smooth push all the way down it does not deform the ball. With the spru up. You must however have a smooth polished bore , always. My .40 is a hand built Pennsylvania with a 42" bl.
Lube will heap alot
You need to file down your front sight. Slowly until you hit the bull😊 Then you should be consistent.
Thanks lawrence!
You really don't want to do that at 50 because you will be low at 25.
If you do it at 25 you will be about dead on at 50 too. You will be a little low at 100 but you can hold for that.
I would try 55 grains 3fg. . Try .400 balls for target shooting. Maybe even a thicker patch. Use a good lube. Are you cleaning between shots? You are very close to the right load now.
I agree Stephen, I think a tighter ball could help. Thanks for watching.
A .400 in a .400 bore? Then add a patch on top of that? You're crazy.
You should do hunting loads. 70 grains and up. Also. If you could do a traditions flintlock thatd be awesome. I’m new to UA-cam and muzzleloading aswell
Why "should" he? It's his rifle, not yours. His video, not yours.
Try 60 grains
I prefer small bore rifles. I used to have a little.32. I killed hundreds of ground squirrels with it.
They don't hardly use ANY powder or lead. And if you are like me, you like shooting much better than hunting.
But they definitely foul up much worse than a larger gun. I switched out that skinny little wooden ramrod for a delrin one that had a built in cleaning jag. Then after a couple shots, I'd just run a spit patch down the bore and keep right on shooting.
I sold that gun because I wanted a Flinter. I still regret selling it. I should have simply converted it.
Fouling attracts moisture any moisture in the air will be attracted to it. Any powder in contact with fouling will soak up whatever moisture is in the fouling.
Keep that lock clean of all fouling.
And it will then shoot consistently
PNW comment: yes indeed, and it's raining a lot this year.
55 grains if that don't do it shave front sight
Yep, taking a bit off the sight will help.
What about you going to private schools and having a field trip to the range
I would be worried about an undiscovered and unscrupulous and devious ALR or ML forum member shooting the postal match from 10 yards and sending in his perfect target for the win.
Good thing the only prize is bragging rights!
It's more like a poignant pause......click whomp phoosh!
Thank you! Couldn't find the word while I was shooting!
The term is pregnant pause.