Great test Ethan. Glad to see you did this from 100yrds to show the incredible expansion down range at a some what more hunting distance. Thanks for posting. “I love Muzzle Loading” too…
Fun and informative video! No blabbing, crappy video work, just to the point, well done and more scientific than you give yourself credit for work! A friend of mine has recovered about a dozen of those Federal rounds from deer. They have lost most of their mass and have such a projected area they seem to end up against the far side hide. I'll stick with the PowerBelt 295's. An accurate, ethical heart lung shot will always kill them, no matter what brand of lead you shoot.
WOW! Now that was impressive! Great job on this video despite all the inclement weather you faced. I plan to test those Federal Bore Lok that I purchased last year. It performed well and had great weight retention and expansion too. But the THOR Hammer was the winner for sure! Impressive expansion!
I'm a little shocked that the 247gr Thor held nearly 100% weight upon recovery; that's a lot of energy transfer. Awesome video, answered some questions I had been kicking around.
You should see the damage the Bor-lok does to a deer. Just dumped two in NY and the impact side had massive hemorrhaging. Great blood trails and a pass through on both.
@@andrewm9454 both were slightly quartered to and only one had a single petal break off. The only reason we found out the petal came off was because the heart had a petal shaped hole through it. All Copper bullets typically don't break off petals unless the shot is very close or heavy bone is encountered. The one that had a petal break off was shot at 15 yds.
@@chadwoodward2402 thanks for the reply. I think I'm sold on them. I was using the power belts but they seem to fragment no matter the distance or bone. Rib bone caused some and I had no blood trail with an excellent broadside shot.
@@andrewm9454 I won't shoot anything else. My brother and I have killed 6 bucks with them weighing any where from 143 lbs to 186 lbs. All pass throughs and all have had very easy but very short blood trails. Less the 50yds. The one in NY is the first sign of a petal breaking off but that was only noticable because the petal went through the heart. Shots have ranged from 15 yds out to 75yds. No bullets have been recovered yet. We push them with a 115 grains of blackhorn 209 so they are cooking on impact at those ranges.
I think the most interesting thing is that in the slowed down footage, you can hear the bullets penetrating each individual jug. With ear buds on, it sounds like a string of explosions going off.
Excellent camera work and consistent prep. I always put down tarps when doing any outside operation dressing deer, mechanical work, especially ballistic testing. I subscribed as am old muzzle loader help in legislation in Michigan with muzzle loading season in 70’s and behind scenes in straight wall pistol cartridge.
Great video, I use lead power Belts in my inline here in Oregon and in my Hawken Woodsmen 50 caliber I use the Hornady 385 grain Great Plains lead hollow points. Oregon has extra rules for muzzleloading Hunts. Thanks for a great video.
WOW! What a great video and nice job with this muzzleloader test! I've planned to do one form my channel, but never got to the Federal Bore-Loked! I had trouble loading after only five shots, using pelletized powder either Pyrodex or Triple 7, so I never got to that far in the process. But I'm definitely going to use these bullets for next years muzzleloader deer hunt!
@@charleycrawford2857 Thanks Charley! That's what everyone tells me to switch to Blackhorn 209! Will have to include this in my testing, but the pelletized powder is so convenient!
@@charleycrawford2857 I know as much as I love muzzleloader season I dread the cleaning! I bought a new CVA Accura V2 because it has an easy to remove breach plug. My old custom Thompson Center was super accurate, but took nearly two hours to clean and tow wrenches just to remove the breach plug!
Such a great video. Muzzleloaders have so many different combinations and I think you definitely touched on a way that the average joe can test their own particular muzzleloader out with different load combinations. The only thing I would like to see in your next test would be the common load of 100grains of either pyrodex or triple7 that is commonly used during hunting. Once again great video 👍
I’m planning on more than likely adding a brake to my cva. In saying that, I’ve got the Hornady boredrivers and was going to grab 2 more to test against them for best accuracy. I think this video (and the consensus) shows that the Thor hammers and federal bor lok are some of the best.
Got away from the powerbelts and started using full copper in my CVA this year and have been very happy with them. I would love to see a similar video with round balls and other bullet types for side locks.
I run the Bor-lok bullets and they are destructive on whitetail. We haven't recovered one yet. Just massive damage, pass throughs, weight retention and quick deaths. Exactly what I want from my bullets.
Thanks for braving the cold & damp to produce this video. I purchased the ELRs for my CVA 50 cal pistol, but after your experimentation, I think I would prefer the performance of the Federal Power Belt or the Thor Hammer as they retained weight for penetration and expanded beautifully.
Great Job on showing the penetration and expansion on each round. But it might be a good idea to research what the bullet design is manufactured to do. The federal round base is designed to stay attached. When fired the base moves forward to seat against the lands and groves to provide a seal. Great round.
Good point! What I find fascinating about shooting in general is the ballistics. With black powder it's almost like you can hand load at the range changing powders Etc. Like a big old science experiment
The Bor-Lok are great bullets. The base has a void space between the hard plastic and the copper. Upon firing it is pushed up the shank for a tight seal. It's legal in places that don't allow sabot and with 777 I can do 20 loads without cleaning. That tan base scrapes the bore to help clean.
I'd say from just looking that you were shooting a CVA Accura rifle in your test? I bought a CVA Optima V2 LR a few days ago and shot it for the first time yesterday. Fired four different bullets sighting it in at gallon jugs at 250 yards. I was really surprised how well all of them shot as far as accuracy and point of impact being almost exactly the same. Two were 250 grain bullets. One the Hornaday SST Sabot, and one being the Berry's Blue Diamond Sabot. First jug died to one of those, but all hits so close I was amazed, then tried the TC Cheap shot 240 grain solid lead Hollow Point which I did not expect to shoot to the same place being blunt nosed, but it did. Then the 270 grain Federal with the Barne's solid copper bullet which also hit a jug and exploded it. This rifle came with a 3-9 Konus scope and after only two adjustments up was right on at 250 yards using the second crosshair down. I have not shot it at 100 yards as of yet but hoping it's very close with the main crosshair as it is or if anything a bit high. Firing a total of twenty-five shots I only ran a patch down the barrel about three times and loading was never a problem with any of the bullets I fired. Cleanup was very easy with that Nitride barrel. and easy to remove breech plug. I guess I failed to mention that my powder charge for all shots was three pellets of Starfire Tripple 7 pellets for a 100-grain equivalent charge. They shoot MUCH cleaner than Pyrodex powder.
I think that you did an excellent job and gave us factual, visual, examples of the bullet performance of each. I recovered a Powerbelt Platinum that was even flatter than the Aerotip you showed from the chest cavity of an antelope, which I consider disappointing, considering elk and deer are much larger. I've not recovered even one of the Federal Trophy Coppers or Trophy Lead bullets. Now if you could add the Hornady Bore Driver to your test I'd have all my questions answered. Thanks for your efforts!
I was impressed in another one of your tests that as Kong as your powder stayed the same in brand and measure that several different bullets preformed basically the same in accuracy . So in real world conditions using the same powder in the same measure you could use different bullets and not really mess up your accuracy. That is interesting when you could use different bullets as you desire and with different penetration and expansion. It looked like the targets that the black circle was approximately a 3 inch diameter and most of the shots were within the circle. I could be satisfied with that at a 100 yards!
The last two were impressive in that the expansion was excellent. Both in the expansion and the control of expansion, because I don’t like the idea of losing pieces of bullet into the meat, but that big ole open hole could play games with accuracy. …..though you were bang on at 100! But Imagine if those first two hit a bone. It’d probably be all over the place.
I think I've watched all of these tests. Pretty interesting! Thank you! Trying to find that balance of good exansion and pass throughs (so there's a blood trail to follow). If I can add one to your list: Harvester Scorpion PT Gold. I just bought some 260's to try at the range but I'd be curious to see how they hold up in your penetration test. I'm sure these videos are a lot of work to put together, so thanks for doing it!
Tip for rainy day muzzle loading : cut the finger tip off a rubber glove and cover your barrel. It blows off before the bullet exits and keeps snow from melting and fouling your powder.
Thank you for this comparison. Happy to see the federals did well. Thor didn't work for my as my traditions doesn't like blackhorn and you really need a clean burning powder for thor or the 2nd and 3rd shots between swabs could get jammed before they seat all the way.
Your CVA should have come with a screw to cover that front sight mount on the barrel. If you don't have it im sure they will send you one. Great customer service. My Accura V2 didn't come with the screw and they hooked me up.
Good to know. Just picked up some bor locks after seeing this. This will be my first season of black powder hunting and really do want the most penetration and expansion that I can get trying to take these pigs.
this was a great vid. something i just thought of. now, obviously we always want our bullets to expand and mushroom. that will always increase their performance to the max. but i was just thinking. with a muzzleloader, the bullet is already significantly larger than a mushroomed bullet from a hunting rifle, such as a 30-06 or 7mm. so even if it didn't expand, it's doing just as much damage, if not more.
Great test, well done in my opinion. I'm just getting into muzzleloaders. Picked up a Traditions G4 Ultralight. Have been looking for projectile tests, thank you for doing this. I think I'm going with the Federal.
I noticed that you don't shoot with the ramrod in your rifle and I discovered that it makes a difference in shot placement by not shooting with the ramrod installed but all rifles are difference and l always want to shoot the same while hunting as when target shooting or sighting in my rifle. Maybe do a test to see if it makes a difference but it did with my rifle. Thanks for your videos l really enjoy them.
Impressive results, Ive been using the powerbelt 295`s for the last 6 or seven years as the 245`s were a bit to fragile on deer, they would kill them but break up to the the point where they might not exit and make one hell of a mess on the insides.
I’ve not been into muzzleloaders for very long but I’ve used the 245 areotip Powerbeats and had pretty good success but I’m wanting to try the areolite and that dang blackhorn is the only powder my rifle will ever shoot
Man the elr that u recovered is kinda making me think twice on using them for this weekend muzzloading, it would be pretty cool and more accurate to see them all shot again but through a gel block to see wound Chanel and expansion
I’ve seen many of the ELR with much better expansion online in the Facebook groups, if it’s accurate in your rifle I wouldn’t sweat too much, especially based on my test! I agree on the gel block, working on that now
@@ILoveMuzzleloading well I tested it out tonight actually, 113 yards on a big doe, quarting to me and right behind sholder, complete pass through, made a decent hole in the heart but u can tell it did not expand and the exit hole was actually smaller then the entry and there was a little blood trail so I was worried but she went 30 yards and expired quickly, so it def works but there was not the blood trial I was hoping for but it did it’s job even thoe u can tell it did not open up as ur test showed
Thank you for the great videos. I think I'm going to try the Federal Bore Lock out of my Traditions Pa Pellet ultralight. I don't believe I'm going to use pellets and I think I'm just going with 90 grains of 2F black powder or whatever grain weight the bullet prefers. I purchased a few packs on clearance last year and was debating on trying them but after your video I think that mushroom should do pretty good through a whitetail deer.
Just found your channel and subscribed. Really enjoy your vlogs. test and reviews. I started of with a TC renegade 50 cal patch and ball back in the 70s, I have a TC Encore 50 cal. and a new CVA Acuura V2 50 Cal. I just purchased two years ago. I love it! I use BH209 and Hornady SST Sabot, always looking for new bullets and reviews! Seriously considering the Bore lock bullets , just not sure which to try on deer sized game. some of the controlled expansion bullets seem better suited for larger animals such as bear, elk, or moose. Always learning. a neat tip if you want to try. using your plastic powder tube and even a plastic field flask, if you are experiencing lots of residue left in your tube, or poor pouring from your flask, take a dryer sheer and clean the inside of your tubes and flask. I think you will see a significant improvement on better and cleaner pours from your tubes. The dryer sheets removes the static electricity from inside the tubes and flask allowing for a cleaner pour. you get alot of use out of just one dryer sheet. give it a try see if you like it. 👍 Good luck, Thank you
Looks like a ton of fun. It’s interesting how they performed differently. I enjoy shooting water jugs. It gives you some extra instant satisfaction compared punching paper. Kind of like shooting steel but with some fun destruction.
I have not tested the Thor. I have shot the borelock a lot. Besides the absolute great terminal performance, the accuracy is phenomenal. I will be using this for my elk hunt.
I'll definitely b looking for another bullet for black powder season, I've used power belt aerotips and got my biggest buck this past year with aerotips 295grain bullet with 150grains of powder which I specifically go with for Max penetration and knockdown power and I barely penetrated the front shoulder bone and had only handful of drops of blood what's the shot being at 20 to 25 yards considering how close how much powder I use in my gun was very surprised that I didn't have much penetration can I see how some different sabbaths perform but I'm still going to stay with 150 grains of powder I was using 100 g like most hunters I may have never even found the deer add extra 50 Greens in a third pellat I think really made the difference luckily I recovered the deer the next morning
Test the tc shockwaves. I can get good groups out of them but have heard some people say they don’t expand. Some people say they do good on deer. I hope to see for myself this muzzleloader season.
I would like to see some of the new hornady bore driver ftx done. I'm using them in my knight now. Was using powerbelts but had a bad experience and decided the hornady was a way better option for a non saboted muzzleloader bullet.
How accurate are those out of your rifle? I’d be interested in seeing how they compare for accuracy as well. I know a lot plays into getting 3-5 shots without something going astray. Either way, great video
Liked the video could you please do the exactly the same at 150 yards and 200 yards with the same 4 bullet types, as the muzzle loading rifle is designed for hunting. Also could you do a muzzle drop target at each range as well with a 100 yard zero and also include a 50 yard target as well . Many thanks.
Cool test at 100 yards thank you. When you push that ELR bullet down the barrel does the tip deform at all? It is so narrow looking at it on the video.
My ramrod tip is concave on the end to accommodate the point so it shouldn't deform, but I'm going to do some testing soon to show on video if it deforms.
Great video. After myself and a few other people I know shooting deer with Powerbelts having minimal luck recovering deer, most have made the switch over to Hornady SST's. Would be curious to see how that round stacks up to the Thor and Federal.
I’ve looked for every deer I’ve shot with a powerbelt no matter how perfect the hit. Using what I have left for speedloaders. They do group very well tho.
Twisted Jedi, I hit a couple just about perfect to maximize meat off a deer just to never recover them. I hunt mainly public land, and I've had them run 150 yards, jump a fence, and not be able to confirm if the deer was dead. After that one, I really had to rethink my rounds.
Not saying they are the the right choice but have shot several 200 lb plus northern Minnesota whitetail with the .45 cal 270 grain power belt areo and have recovered every one of them. My only complaint is have yet to have one pass through bullet is always stuck in hide on opposite side. None of the deer where over 50 yards away. The expansion of the last 2 still dont think i would get a pass through. Might have to try the elr looked to have best penetration.
@@Zewbacca I have only been able to base it on the experience I've personally had or seen. Powerbelts clearly have worked for people or they would not still be manufactured or sold. Have you had good blood trails with yours? I know from some of my friends that they did not have drop of blood (in snow), thought they had missed, and stumbled onto a perfectly shot dead deer while on the way back to the truck.
No tamping very good never to old to learn..just a hint dont compress blackhorn to much and try to put same amount of pressure every time and you will notice a difference..but it seems like your rifle is dialed in ..be safe good luck...
Just found your channel. About to buy a new muzzleloader and looking at that same CVA Optima V2 LR. How do you like it and have you shot anything other then blackhorn out of it. Awesome videos.
I am new to black powder guns. I have a CVA Wolf V2. I hope to use old school round balls with it. Use a packing wad or not? My intended use is within 50yds.
I'm really surprised that they all grouped together...I use the federal copper bore lock and they are the only projectile that my tradition vortek 50 cal will shoot... I tried enough projectiles out of that gun that I could have bought it three times new... I spent time lapping in the barrel changing from triple seven to blackhorn 209 and things did improve I felt comfortable taking shots at 80 to 100 yards and had 8-in groups.... Shy of turning my brand new gun into a crowbar federal bore lock came into the market and I figured I'll give one more a try and now I'm punching 3 inch groups at 250 yds every time. Also the next muzzle loader I buy will be a CVA.
I didn't think much of it, but I see a ton of folks having trouble getting their rifles to shoot just one bullet, I feel blessed mine has been working so well.
Great video thx for sharing,as you can see the areo tip power belt is way to soft and completely flattens out, as does the new elr bullet by power belt, the federal borelock is hands down the winner in this comparison to me, the thor also did ok but the skirt shows evidence of leakage
@@reggiebuffat doesn't matter what powder charge , I shoot 70 grains by weight in 209 black horn or triple seven , both yield the same results power belts are to soft.
Is the expansion not enough? I ask that out of true curiosity, after more tests it feels like some bullets are designed for expansion, others for penetration. What are your thoughts?
@@ILoveMuzzleloading expansion is great as long as the bullet drives through and exits. Biggest problem with hunting from elevated stands is the downward angle , if the bullet doesn't exit and the animal runs most likely you will not have a blood trail . That's why a lot of people have lost deer with power belts including myself.
I just recently viewed some of your videos, enjoyed them. I watched another video on muzzleloading & they had lost deer using sabots. They switched to another bullet type (powerbelt) to use in the up coming hunt. Could you test the packaged sabot bullets, 230, 240 & I think they have a 300 grain. It would be interesting to see how they perform.
Great question Rick. Do you have a brand name in mind? I tried some others in this video (ua-cam.com/video/yk1mpFKfxIs/v-deo.html) but I'm not sure it's what you are thinking or not
@@ILoveMuzzleloading Thompson Center packaged 230 & 240 grain I believe XTP bullets with what they called Magnum Express sabot, but I believe they are MMP sabots. In the other video I watched they claimed the deer they lost didn’t have pass through so not a blood trail to follow. Of course there is two schools of though there. One is maximum expansion & complete energy transfer, the other, expansion & large exit wound for rapid blood loss. I’m thinking the lighter bullets have neither.
New sub here! Love the channel! Would love to see chronograph, penetration & barrel clean differences between powder coated & non powder coated Lee R.E.A.L bullets.
I like the bor lock performance. It would be interesting to see how the 330 grain bullet came out it may have penetrated further because it did not expand? Did you use the same charge weight or did you change the charge to the weight of the bullet? I don't have a muzzleloader but I'm seriously thinking about getting a CVA the performance with today's technology is really impressive compared to traditional muzzleloader. Thank you 👍
I’ll be testing the 330 grain again this weekend to see if we get some different results. I used the same weighted charge for each bullet. You should definitely have a few muzzleloaders! Be sure to try traditional and modern so you can experience all the fun
@@ILoveMuzzleloading when I was younger my father and I built a few traditional muzzleloaders. They had kits back then they probably still do today I'm not sure? My father did the 50 caliber Kentucky long rifle and I did a 50 caliber pistol I think it was a 10-in. They were a lot of fun but they were not very accurate. We couldn't get either one to really shoot. And my father and I were at the range every week. I used to compete NRA silhouette and ski and different things that are local range. When I was a kid I used to win pretty much everything I competed in. I competed with a Marlin 39a Golden
IF I were using an inline like you, I would pick any one of those last two, days would take down any north American big game, the first two were good but lost a lot of mass. I still prefer traditional flintlocks with round balls.
I broke down my answer throughout your video for best information. Please be sure to read each section, I think I can help you a little bit with what you’re doing, and make some of your shooting a little bit better with the answers given below, best of luck in the woods! I put my gun away, clean, lubricated, cork in the end, patch over the primer so everything remains nice and clean. If you’re worried about having a load in there, simply take a needle cleaner for an old Hawkins and insert that into your primer, if there’s a load in there, you will not be able to get it that deep, maybe a quarter of an inch max with a load, all the way in with no load. You can also mark your ram rod. I use three different charges, depending on how far I’m shooting and my ramrod is marked accordingly. By the way, take the caps off of the jugs, better chance of catching the bullet! Lee makes a tool for the non-plastic rounds, you have to swage your barrel and they will send you the kit, and with three squeezes of a trigger like a caulking gun you can shrink or expand your bullet to fit your bore perfectly. If you have a rifle barrel, this is important and will give you a lot more spin, resulting in less lift and drop. Measure the bullet you have the best rifle grooves in and you do not have to swage your barrel, the one that shows the exact count of your rifling, with the best cleanest marks is the exact diameter of your barrel, now you can buy specific rounds, such as .502, .505 wherever it happens to fall into the exact diameter of your barrel
While this isn't a direct transfer it does allow a consistent way to compare energy transfer visually. Also it would be better to have bullets of the same weight whenever possible Maybe a sandbag pressed up to a steel backing plate with a pressure sensor behind it that way you can register actual newton meters of force applied.
I discovered that shooting without the ramrod my rifle shot higher, 8 inches, than with the ramrod, l know that not all rifles are the same but I hunt with the ramrod in so when I'm sighting in or just shooting for fun always put the ramrod in the rifle, it changes the harmonicks of the barrel. 1/22/24
Your milk is expired.
Great test Ethan. Glad to see you did this from 100yrds to show the incredible expansion down range at a some what more hunting distance.
Thanks for posting. “I love Muzzle Loading” too…
Thanks for watching Wayne!
Fun and informative video! No blabbing, crappy video work, just to the point, well done and more scientific than you give yourself credit for work! A friend of mine has recovered about a dozen of those Federal rounds from deer. They have lost most of their mass and have such a projected area they seem to end up against the far side hide. I'll stick with the PowerBelt 295's. An accurate, ethical heart lung shot will always kill them, no matter what brand of lead you shoot.
Thanks for watching Jack!
Agreed
The expansion on the Federal and Thor was amazing to see!
I was certainly impressed!
Great video the federal and Thor bullet would be my choice I'll bet they tear up Alot of meat let's see this fall
WOW! Now that was impressive! Great job on this video despite all the inclement weather you faced. I plan to test those Federal Bore Lok that I purchased last year. It performed well and had great weight retention and expansion too. But the THOR Hammer was the winner for sure! Impressive expansion!
Have fun!
I'm a little shocked that the 247gr Thor held nearly 100% weight upon recovery; that's a lot of energy transfer. Awesome video, answered some questions I had been kicking around.
Thank you. More one the way.
You should see the damage the Bor-lok does to a deer. Just dumped two in NY and the impact side had massive hemorrhaging. Great blood trails and a pass through on both.
Could I ask where the hit location was and did bone cause large fragmentation of the bullet?
@@andrewm9454 both were slightly quartered to and only one had a single petal break off. The only reason we found out the petal came off was because the heart had a petal shaped hole through it. All Copper bullets typically don't break off petals unless the shot is very close or heavy bone is encountered. The one that had a petal break off was shot at 15 yds.
@@chadwoodward2402 thanks for the reply. I think I'm sold on them. I was using the power belts but they seem to fragment no matter the distance or bone. Rib bone caused some and I had no blood trail with an excellent broadside shot.
@@andrewm9454 I won't shoot anything else. My brother and I have killed 6 bucks with them weighing any where from 143 lbs to 186 lbs. All pass throughs and all have had very easy but very short blood trails. Less the 50yds. The one in NY is the first sign of a petal breaking off but that was only noticable because the petal went through the heart. Shots have ranged from 15 yds out to 75yds. No bullets have been recovered yet. We push them with a 115 grains of blackhorn 209 so they are cooking on impact at those ranges.
@@chadwoodward2402 thanks for the info I'll be purchasing a pack soon for next year. Thanks again and happy hunting to you and the others.
I think the most interesting thing is that in the slowed down footage, you can hear the bullets penetrating each individual jug.
With ear buds on, it sounds like a string of explosions going off.
Great observation Daniel.
Awesome Video Ethan! Thanks for all you do for muzzleloading!
Really good comparison test. Way better than most. Keep them coming.
Thank you!
Do some more flintlock shooting. Would love to see a traditions flintlock video. I just picked one up myself. A Hawken.
Thanks! More Flintlock shooting on the way. I don't have a Traditions Flintlock, but I bet I can get a hold of one. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for your comment back man. Shows the community how much you care
Excellent camera work and consistent prep. I always put down tarps when doing any outside operation dressing deer, mechanical work, especially ballistic testing. I subscribed as am old muzzle loader help in legislation in Michigan with muzzle loading season in 70’s and behind scenes in straight wall pistol cartridge.
Those were some excellent examples of of expansion! Very cool look at the projectiles
The bore lok really impressed me. I’ve been contemplating getting an accura mr-x so seeing this makes me wanna make another excuse to why I need one 😂
Thanks for watching! I'm a big fan of my Accura.
Great video, I use lead power Belts in my inline here in Oregon and in my Hawken Woodsmen 50 caliber I use the Hornady 385 grain Great Plains lead hollow points. Oregon has extra rules for muzzleloading Hunts. Thanks for a great video.
Ethan your videos rock plain and simple to the point. I will be following you since we are just getting inti muzzel loading
Thank you Joe, I don't like to beat around the bush!
WOW! What a great video and nice job with this muzzleloader test! I've planned to do one form my channel, but never got to the Federal Bore-Loked! I had trouble loading after only five shots, using pelletized powder either Pyrodex or Triple 7, so I never got to that far in the process. But I'm definitely going to use these bullets for next years muzzleloader deer hunt!
Thanks Ron!
Get blackhorn you will not regret it
@@charleycrawford2857 Thanks Charley! That's what everyone tells me to switch to Blackhorn 209! Will have to include this in my testing, but the pelletized powder is so convenient!
Pellets are easy to use but a pain in the ass to clean and the accuracy you'll gain is well worth it.
@@charleycrawford2857 I know as much as I love muzzleloader season I dread the cleaning! I bought a new CVA Accura V2 because it has an easy to remove breach plug. My old custom Thompson Center was super accurate, but took nearly two hours to clean and tow wrenches just to remove the breach plug!
Thanks for the great video! I'd love to see a similar test with roundball; maybe .50 vs .54 vs .58
Great idea, I've got one in the works!
Such a great video. Muzzleloaders have so many different combinations and I think you definitely touched on a way that the average joe can test their own particular muzzleloader out with different load combinations. The only thing I would like to see in your next test would be the common load of 100grains of either pyrodex or triple7 that is commonly used during hunting. Once again great video 👍
Thanks for the feedback! I've got some of the other substitutes on the way to test out in both my modern and traditional muzzleloaders.
I’m planning on more than likely adding a brake to my cva. In saying that, I’ve got the Hornady boredrivers and was going to grab 2 more to test against them for best accuracy. I think this video (and the consensus) shows that the Thor hammers and federal bor lok are some of the best.
Got away from the powerbelts and started using full copper in my CVA this year and have been very happy with them.
I would love to see a similar video with round balls and other bullet types for side locks.
Thanks Robert, I have more on the way
Powerbelts are softer for sure but the bigger the mushroom the more the damage
@@justinlloyd9342 I've had penetration issues with powerbelt on bone, I switched to copper as well.
I run the Bor-lok bullets and they are destructive on whitetail. We haven't recovered one yet. Just massive damage, pass throughs, weight retention and quick deaths. Exactly what I want from my bullets.
I may have try to find some of the federal bullets if my gun likes them I’ll give them a go
Thanks for braving the cold & damp to produce this video. I purchased the ELRs for my CVA 50 cal pistol, but after your experimentation, I think I would prefer the performance of the Federal Power Belt or the Thor Hammer as they retained weight for penetration and expanded beautifully.
Thanks for watching!
Another good job back expansion on all those are blood trail for deer or hogs and they all shoot pretty straight
Thanks Shannon!
Great Job on showing the penetration and expansion on each round. But it might be a good idea to research what the bullet design is manufactured to do. The federal round base is designed to stay attached. When fired the base moves forward to seat against the lands and groves to provide a seal. Great round.
Excellent point Russell! I need to do more research for sure
Awesome job you did great showing the different types of bullets and the damage of each !!
Good point! What I find fascinating about shooting in general is the ballistics. With black powder it's almost like you can hand load at the range changing powders Etc. Like a big old science experiment
The Bor-Lok are great bullets. The base has a void space between the hard plastic and the copper. Upon firing it is pushed up the shank for a tight seal. It's legal in places that don't allow sabot and with 777 I can do 20 loads without cleaning. That tan base scrapes the bore to help clean.
very cool Ethan. It would be interesting to see a similar video with roundball and different calibers.
I’ve got it in the works! Should be fun
@@ILoveMuzzleloading lookin forward to it Ethan.
I'd say from just looking that you were shooting a CVA Accura rifle in your test? I bought a CVA Optima V2 LR a few days ago and shot it for the first time yesterday. Fired four different bullets sighting it in at gallon jugs at 250 yards. I was really surprised how well all of them shot as far as accuracy and point of impact being almost exactly the same. Two were 250 grain bullets. One the Hornaday SST Sabot, and one being the Berry's Blue Diamond Sabot. First jug died to one of those, but all hits so close I was amazed, then tried the TC Cheap shot 240 grain solid lead Hollow Point which I did not expect to shoot to the same place being blunt nosed, but it did. Then the 270 grain Federal with the Barne's solid copper bullet which also hit a jug and exploded it. This rifle came with a 3-9 Konus scope and after only two adjustments up was right on at 250 yards using the second crosshair down. I have not shot it at 100 yards as of yet but hoping it's very close with the main crosshair as it is or if anything a bit high. Firing a total of twenty-five shots I only ran a patch down the barrel about three times and loading was never a problem with any of the bullets I fired. Cleanup was very easy with that Nitride barrel. and easy to remove breech plug. I guess I failed to mention that my powder charge for all shots was three pellets of Starfire Tripple 7 pellets for a 100-grain equivalent charge. They shoot MUCH cleaner than Pyrodex powder.
Great videos! I would love to see some ballistic gel tests with the cva paramount 45 with different bullets.
Thanks Jeremy. Someday I'll save up enough for some gel and a paramount.
I got to shoot a muzzleloader for the first time a couple days ago and it was fun as hell nice video brother
I think that you did an excellent job and gave us factual, visual, examples of the bullet performance of each. I recovered a Powerbelt Platinum that was even flatter than the Aerotip you showed from the chest cavity of an antelope, which I consider disappointing, considering elk and deer are much larger. I've not recovered even one of the Federal Trophy Coppers or Trophy Lead bullets. Now if you could add the Hornady Bore Driver to your test I'd have all my questions answered. Thanks for your efforts!
Thanks John, finishing up my next video in this series this weekend. I will be featuring the Bore Driver bullets.
I was impressed in another one of your tests that as Kong as your powder stayed the same in brand and measure that several different bullets preformed basically the same in accuracy . So in real world conditions using the same powder in the same measure you could use different bullets and not really mess up your accuracy. That is interesting when you could use different bullets as you desire and with different penetration and expansion. It looked like the targets that the black circle was approximately a 3 inch diameter and most of the shots were within the circle. I could be satisfied with that at a 100 yards!
Thanks John! That was a fun test!
The last two were impressive in that the expansion was excellent. Both in the expansion and the control of expansion, because I don’t like the idea of losing pieces of bullet into the meat, but that big ole open hole could play games with accuracy. …..though you were bang on at 100! But Imagine if those first two hit a bone. It’d probably be all over the place.
I think I've watched all of these tests. Pretty interesting! Thank you! Trying to find that balance of good exansion and pass throughs (so there's a blood trail to follow). If I can add one to your list: Harvester Scorpion PT Gold. I just bought some 260's to try at the range but I'd be curious to see how they hold up in your penetration test. I'm sure these videos are a lot of work to put together, so thanks for doing it!
Thanks for the suggestion! I'll keep an eye out for those!
Tip for rainy day muzzle loading : cut the finger tip off a rubber glove and cover your barrel. It blows off before the bullet exits and keeps snow from melting and fouling your powder.
I'll have to try that
You can also use small balloons
Damn. Great video. Satisfying to see a bullet after flight. Great job. 👍
Thank you
Thank you for this comparison. Happy to see the federals did well. Thor didn't work for my as my traditions doesn't like blackhorn and you really need a clean burning powder for thor or the 2nd and 3rd shots between swabs could get jammed before they seat all the way.
Great video, im thinking about getting back into it, i have killed two Elk with my old Hawken,
Your CVA should have come with a screw to cover that front sight mount on the barrel. If you don't have it im sure they will send you one. Great customer service. My Accura V2 didn't come with the screw and they hooked me up.
Thanks I’ll check that out
Good to know. Just picked up some bor locks after seeing this. This will be my first season of black powder hunting and really do want the most penetration and expansion that I can get trying to take these pigs.
Good vid I been using powerbelt
I'm glad you are enjoying them!
this was a great vid.
something i just thought of. now, obviously we always want our bullets to expand and mushroom. that will always increase their performance to the max. but i was just thinking. with a muzzleloader, the bullet is already significantly larger than a mushroomed bullet from a hunting rifle, such as a 30-06 or 7mm. so even if it didn't expand, it's doing just as much damage, if not more.
I’d have to agree with you. It’s hard to find a center fire cartridge this heavy. These aren’t moving as fast but they hit hard I think.
Great test, well done in my opinion. I'm just getting into muzzleloaders. Picked up a Traditions G4 Ultralight. Have been looking for projectile tests, thank you for doing this. I think I'm going with the Federal.
Thanks 👍 I just got a few more projectiles in, hoping to test more soon. Welcome to muzzleloading!
Great video! Super cool to see these brands before and after.
You are a busy guy! Thanks for all you are doing!
Thanks!
I noticed that you don't shoot with the ramrod in your rifle and I discovered that it makes a difference in shot placement by not shooting with the ramrod installed but all rifles are difference and l always want to shoot the same while hunting as when target shooting or sighting in my rifle. Maybe do a test to see if it makes a difference but it did with my rifle. Thanks for your videos l really enjoy them.
Impressive results, Ive been using the powerbelt 295`s for the last 6 or seven years as the 245`s were a bit to fragile on deer, they would kill them but break up to the the point where they might not exit and make one hell of a mess on the insides.
I've heard that about the Powerbelts, some love em, some don't. They work good on milk jugs though, haha
I’ve not been into muzzleloaders for very long but I’ve used the 245 areotip Powerbeats and had pretty good success but I’m wanting to try the areolite and that dang blackhorn is the only powder my rifle will ever shoot
well
done, ill be sticking w my 150grain of white hots w the Thor after watching this... thanks man
Thanks for watching!
Man the elr that u recovered is kinda making me think twice on using them for this weekend muzzloading, it would be pretty cool and more accurate to see them all shot again but through a gel block to see wound Chanel and expansion
I’ve seen many of the ELR with much better expansion online in the Facebook groups, if it’s accurate in your rifle I wouldn’t sweat too much, especially based on my test!
I agree on the gel block, working on that now
@@ILoveMuzzleloading well I tested it out tonight actually, 113 yards on a big doe, quarting to me and right behind sholder, complete pass through, made a decent hole in the heart but u can tell it did not expand and the exit hole was actually smaller then the entry and there was a little blood trail so I was worried but she went 30 yards and expired quickly, so it def works but there was not the blood trial I was hoping for but it did it’s job even thoe u can tell it did not open up as ur test showed
Yes it seems like that bullet is a little too hard for deer
Thank you for the great videos. I think I'm going to try the Federal Bore Lock out of my Traditions Pa Pellet ultralight. I don't believe I'm going to use pellets and I think I'm just going with 90 grains of 2F black powder or whatever grain weight the bullet prefers. I purchased a few packs on clearance last year and was debating on trying them but after your video I think that mushroom should do pretty good through a whitetail deer.
Just found your channel and subscribed. Really enjoy your vlogs. test and reviews. I started of with a TC renegade 50 cal patch and ball back in the 70s, I have a TC Encore 50 cal. and a new CVA Acuura V2 50 Cal. I just purchased two years ago. I love it! I use BH209 and Hornady SST Sabot, always looking for new bullets and reviews! Seriously considering the Bore lock bullets , just not sure which to try on deer sized game. some of the controlled expansion bullets seem better suited for larger animals such as bear, elk, or moose. Always learning. a neat tip if you want to try. using your plastic powder tube and even a plastic field flask, if you are experiencing lots of residue left in your tube, or poor pouring from your flask, take a dryer sheer and clean the inside of your tubes and flask. I think you will see a significant improvement on better and cleaner pours from your tubes. The dryer sheets removes the static electricity from inside the tubes and flask allowing for a cleaner pour. you get alot of use out of just one dryer sheet. give it a try see if you like it. 👍 Good luck, Thank you
Thanks Rodney!
Looks like a ton of fun. It’s interesting how they performed differently. I enjoy shooting water jugs. It gives you some extra instant satisfaction compared punching paper. Kind of like shooting steel but with some fun destruction.
Definitely! I figure the jugs can go to the recycling center all the same after I shoot em
I like the PowerBelt hollow point bullets
Good video and excellent job keeping the test the same for each bullet. May have to buy the federal bor loks
Thanks for watching Andrew. Working on testing some more bullets soon
I have not tested the Thor. I have shot the borelock a lot. Besides the absolute great terminal performance, the accuracy is phenomenal. I will be using this for my elk hunt.
I never had very good luck with powerbelt bullets.the plastic piece on the bottom was always cut lopsided at the factory
I'll definitely b looking for another bullet for black powder season, I've used power belt aerotips and got my biggest buck this past year with aerotips 295grain bullet with 150grains of powder which I specifically go with for Max penetration and knockdown power and I barely penetrated the front shoulder bone and had only handful of drops of blood what's the shot being at 20 to 25 yards considering how close how much powder I use in my gun was very surprised that I didn't have much penetration can I see how some different sabbaths perform but I'm still going to stay with 150 grains of powder I was using 100 g like most hunters I may have never even found the deer add extra 50 Greens in a third pellat I think really made the difference luckily I recovered the deer the next morning
Test the tc shockwaves. I can get good groups out of them but have heard some people say they don’t expand. Some people say they do good on deer. I hope to see for myself this muzzleloader season.
Great info!
Have you ever heard of or can you test the Berry’s Blue Diamond muzzleloader bullets? Thanks!
I've not heard of that brand, but I'll see if I can find some!
I would like to see some of the new hornady bore driver ftx done. I'm using them in my knight now. Was using powerbelts but had a bad experience and decided the hornady was a way better option for a non saboted muzzleloader bullet.
I’ve got a fresh box ready for the next test. If the weather holds I’ll be filming soon
@@ILoveMuzzleloading sweet. I'm really looking forward to seeing it.
This video is great. I'm going to try to find some of these slugs for my H&R .50 cal
Would like to see some classic sabots like the Hornady, scorpion hard cast lead, and Barnes to compare to your testing
Thanks! I have some Hornady Bore Drivers that just came in. Will see about finding more for the next test.
How accurate are those out of your rifle? I’d be interested in seeing how they compare for accuracy as well. I know a lot plays into getting 3-5 shots without something going astray. Either way, great video
Thanks bud! Looking to release a side by side accuracy test, as well as I can, very soon.
Liked the video could you please do the exactly the same at 150 yards and 200 yards with the same 4 bullet types, as the muzzle loading rifle is designed for hunting. Also could you do a muzzle drop target at each range as well with a 100 yard zero and also include a 50 yard target as well . Many thanks.
Thanks David, I'll do my best to address your requests, I'm happy to do some more shooting. Thanks for watching and have a Merry Christmas.
Thank you for replying and a Merry Christmas from the United Kingdom 🇬🇧.
Test out the Lehigh Defense Extreme Penetrator.
Cool test at 100 yards thank you. When you push that ELR bullet down the barrel does the tip deform at all? It is so narrow looking at it on the video.
My ramrod tip is concave on the end to accommodate the point so it shouldn't deform, but I'm going to do some testing soon to show on video if it deforms.
They come with a plastic tip that screws into ram rod ,
Great video. After myself and a few other people I know shooting deer with Powerbelts having minimal luck recovering deer, most have made the switch over to Hornady SST's. Would be curious to see how that round stacks up to the Thor and Federal.
I’ve looked for every deer I’ve shot with a powerbelt no matter how perfect the hit. Using what I have left for speedloaders. They do group very well tho.
Thanks Brandt. I'll have to find some SSTs, they are very popular.
Twisted Jedi, I hit a couple just about perfect to maximize meat off a deer just to never recover them. I hunt mainly public land, and I've had them run 150 yards, jump a fence, and not be able to confirm if the deer was dead. After that one, I really had to rethink my rounds.
Not saying they are the the right choice but have shot several 200 lb plus northern Minnesota whitetail with the .45 cal 270 grain power belt areo and have recovered every one of them. My only complaint is have yet to have one pass through bullet is always stuck in hide on opposite side. None of the deer where over 50 yards away. The expansion of the last 2 still dont think i would get a pass through. Might have to try the elr looked to have best penetration.
@@Zewbacca I have only been able to base it on the experience I've personally had or seen. Powerbelts clearly have worked for people or they would not still be manufactured or sold. Have you had good blood trails with yours? I know from some of my friends that they did not have drop of blood (in snow), thought they had missed, and stumbled onto a perfectly shot dead deer while on the way back to the truck.
Its about time someone did this. Keep it up!
No tamping very good never to old to learn..just a hint dont compress blackhorn to much and try to put same amount of pressure every time and you will notice a difference..but it seems like your rifle is dialed in ..be safe good luck...
I'm always willing to learn! Thanks John, I appreciate it.
Just found your channel. About to buy a new muzzleloader and looking at that same CVA Optima V2 LR. How do you like it and have you shot anything other then blackhorn out of it. Awesome videos.
Hi Doug, I havn't shot any of the other substitutes, but I plan to this summer for testing. Thanks for watching!
I am new to black powder guns. I have a CVA Wolf V2. I hope to use old school round balls with it. Use a packing wad or not? My
intended use is within 50yds.
I’ve seen that the Thor bullets are rifle bore specific. You need to buy a sizing pack of bullets .
That is correct
I'm really surprised that they all grouped together...I use the federal copper bore lock and they are the only projectile that my tradition vortek 50 cal will shoot... I tried enough projectiles out of that gun that I could have bought it three times new... I spent time lapping in the barrel changing from triple seven to blackhorn 209 and things did improve I felt comfortable taking shots at 80 to 100 yards and had 8-in groups.... Shy of turning my brand new gun into a crowbar federal bore lock came into the market and I figured I'll give one more a try and now I'm punching 3 inch groups at 250 yds every time. Also the next muzzle loader I buy will be a CVA.
I didn't think much of it, but I see a ton of folks having trouble getting their rifles to shoot just one bullet, I feel blessed mine has been working so well.
I am of the generation of work the load. What is the best load for Warren's rifle might be a nightmare in Paul's rifle and vice-versa
Very interesting!! Thank you for sharing.
That Powerbelt 330 ELR was nasty!
Yeah I'm going to give it another shot in the next test to see if this was a fluke.
I’m sighted in with the Federal. Hoping to harvest a deer this weekend with one. Great video.
They are lethal bullets you'll be happy when you send one through a whitetail.
Thanks for watching. I did you bring home a deer this year?
@@ILoveMuzzleloading no. Had a doe come by but didn’t have a good shot opportunity. Saw her too late. Maybe next year…
Great video thx for sharing,as you can see the areo tip power belt is way to soft and completely flattens out, as does the new elr bullet by power belt, the federal borelock is hands down the winner in this comparison to me, the thor also did ok but the skirt shows evidence of leakage
Power belts are generally shot with too much powder 65 to 85 grains is quite enough generally. Especially with a heavy bullet.
@@reggiebuffat doesn't matter what powder charge , I shoot 70 grains by weight in 209 black horn or triple seven , both yield the same results power belts are to soft.
Is the expansion not enough? I ask that out of true curiosity, after more tests it feels like some bullets are designed for expansion, others for penetration. What are your thoughts?
@@ILoveMuzzleloading expansion is great as long as the bullet drives through and exits. Biggest problem with hunting from elevated stands is the downward angle , if the bullet doesn't exit and the animal runs most likely you will not have a blood trail . That's why a lot of people have lost deer with power belts including myself.
I just recently viewed some of your videos, enjoyed them. I watched another video on muzzleloading & they had lost deer using sabots. They switched to another bullet type (powerbelt) to use in the up coming hunt. Could you test the packaged sabot bullets, 230, 240 & I think they have a 300 grain. It would be interesting to see how they perform.
Great question Rick. Do you have a brand name in mind? I tried some others in this video (ua-cam.com/video/yk1mpFKfxIs/v-deo.html) but I'm not sure it's what you are thinking or not
@@ILoveMuzzleloading Thompson Center packaged 230 & 240 grain I believe XTP bullets with what they called Magnum Express sabot, but I believe they are MMP sabots.
In the other video I watched they claimed the deer they lost didn’t have pass through so not a blood trail to follow.
Of course there is two schools of though there. One is maximum expansion & complete energy transfer, the other, expansion & large exit wound for rapid blood loss. I’m thinking the lighter bullets have neither.
Awesome video man!
Thank you! It’s been a lot of fun
Have you ever tried the Bore Driver on water jugs ? Really enjoyed this video . Thanks
I have a box ready for the next test. Thanks for watching
I would be very interested to see the chronograph results traditional versus modern. Did you ever do that video I'd love to watch that.
Thanks Brian, I’m set up to do that kind of test now thanks to some range work the past few weeks. Hoping to film it soon
@@ILoveMuzzleloading Very nice 👍. I will subscribe and patiently wait thank you
Traditional is not even close why would you ask that!!?
I've seen probably 30 or more bull elk killed bye both and it's not even a comparison!
That borelock looks exactly like Barnes expander . I think Federal bought Barnes and that's where the borelock matches up with a Barnes expander
Ethan, try 90 grs. of 209. thats what I use in my optima with fed. borlock and gets a 2in. group !! at 100 yds.
Thanks Terri. Are you measuring by weight or by volume?
that would be volume of course! I use the regular bp measure set at 90grs. like some say,try it you'll like it!
New sub here! Love the channel! Would love to see chronograph, penetration & barrel clean differences between powder coated & non powder coated Lee R.E.A.L bullets.
Thank you for watching! I've got some on the way! Winter is coming but I hope to be able to shoot some more
Gotta love the solid copper projectiles..
They did well in this round
Dude that was awesome looking forward to more!!!
Awesome thank you!
@@ILoveMuzzleloading yessir
You’ve got a good channel going. Stick with it.
Thanks Christopher.
I've used the federal b.o.r they work great on deer
Great video 👍
I like the bor lock performance. It would be interesting to see how the 330 grain bullet came out it may have penetrated further because it did not expand? Did you use the same charge weight or did you change the charge to the weight of the bullet? I don't have a muzzleloader but I'm seriously thinking about getting a CVA the performance with today's technology is really impressive compared to traditional muzzleloader. Thank you 👍
I’ll be testing the 330 grain again this weekend to see if we get some different results. I used the same weighted charge for each bullet.
You should definitely have a few muzzleloaders! Be sure to try traditional and modern so you can experience all the fun
@@ILoveMuzzleloading when I was younger my father and I built a few traditional muzzleloaders. They had kits back then they probably still do today I'm not sure? My father did the 50 caliber Kentucky long rifle and I did a 50 caliber pistol I think it was a 10-in. They were a lot of fun but they were not very accurate. We couldn't get either one to really shoot. And my father and I were at the range every week. I used to compete NRA silhouette and ski and different things that are local range. When I was a kid I used to win pretty much everything I competed in. I competed with a Marlin 39a Golden
IF I were using an inline like you, I would pick any one of those last two, days would take down any north American big game, the first two were good but lost a lot of mass. I still prefer traditional flintlocks with round balls.
Thanks for watching John.
Well DAMN! Those muzzle loaders are nice!👍👍👍👍👍
Thank you!
Should have included the power belt 348grain bullets as well
Thanks Austin, I'll do some more looking for those!
I broke down my answer throughout your video for best information. Please be sure to read each section, I think I can help you a little bit with what you’re doing, and make some of your shooting a little bit better with the answers given below, best of luck in the woods!
I put my gun away, clean, lubricated, cork in the end, patch over the primer so everything remains nice and clean. If you’re worried about having a load in there, simply take a needle cleaner for an old Hawkins and insert that into your primer, if there’s a load in there, you will not be able to get it that deep, maybe a quarter of an inch max with a load, all the way in with no load. You can also mark your ram rod. I use three different charges, depending on how far I’m shooting and my ramrod is marked accordingly.
By the way, take the caps off of the jugs, better chance of catching the bullet!
Lee makes a tool for the non-plastic rounds, you have to swage your barrel and they will send you the kit, and with three squeezes of a trigger like a caulking gun you can shrink or expand your bullet to fit your bore perfectly. If you have a rifle barrel, this is important and will give you a lot more spin, resulting in less lift and drop. Measure the bullet you have the best rifle grooves in and you do not have to swage your barrel, the one that shows the exact count of your rifling, with the best cleanest marks is the exact diameter of your barrel, now you can buy specific rounds, such as .502, .505 wherever it happens to fall into the exact diameter of your barrel
While this isn't a direct transfer it does allow a consistent way to compare energy transfer visually.
Also it would be better to have bullets of the same weight whenever possible
Maybe a sandbag pressed up to a steel backing plate with a pressure sensor behind it that way you can register actual newton meters of force applied.
Definitely something I’ll look into the pressure sensor. That would be great to have
Interesting video thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
I discovered that shooting without the ramrod my rifle shot higher, 8 inches, than with the ramrod, l know that not all rifles are the same but I hunt with the ramrod in so when I'm sighting in or just shooting for fun always put the ramrod in the rifle, it changes the harmonicks of the barrel. 1/22/24
Fantastic video
Thanks for the visit