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Hawken Expert Bob Woodfill Reviews the InvestArms Hawken Muzzleloader Kit | Beginner Hawken Rifle
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- Опубліковано 31 лип 2024
- Learn more at ilovemuzzleloading.com
Read Bob's articles in MUZZLE BLASTS at NMLRA.org/Muzzleblasts
Bob Woodfill is a longtime friend of mine, when he wrote his book "The Hawken Rifle; Its Evolution from 1822-1870" I saw Bob's scholarly side and his willingness to share his research. In 2021 Bob became fascinated with doing whatever he could to spread his love of the Hawken rifle with muzzleloading enthusiasts everywhere. The success of his book brought Hawken fans of all kinds to his doorstep and he wanted to do more to give back.
When it comes to Hawken rifles, the original pieces are so valuable, many of us, including Bob will probably never own one. Masterful recreations can fetch $10,000+, and very historically accurate kits can fetch $1500-$3000 depending on how you complete them. Bob reached out to me wanting to understand how someone with a limited budget could enjoy the Hawken rifle. When asked my mind immediately went to the Hawken kits I've built over the years. The first is the Traditions, St. Louis Hawken. Comically, Bob advised me on the build of this kit several years ago and had the same thing to say today, "It's a fine kit but there's not extra you can do with the kit". Bob was looking for an affordable, semi-accurate kit that could be finished to be a more accurate recreation of the Hawken Rifle.
I ultimately recommended the InvestArms Gemmer Hawken kit to Bob as a good place for a newcomer to get a semi-accurate kit made of quality components. Bob bought his kit and was off to the races. The "Gemmer" Hawken kit doesn't bear much resemblance to the actual Gemmer made Hawken rifles, but it does a few things right. The InvestArms Gemmer Hawken kit features all steel/iron hardware like the original Hawken rifles and importantly, the InvestArms kits leave some extra wood on the kit allowing for historically accurate modification.
I met with Bob in June 2022 and he gave me some of his initial impressions of the kit, by September 2022 Bob had finished the kit and was excited to share it with me in this video. Ultimately this kit was sent home with a young man who drew a Colorado Elk Tag. He will be hunting elk just like the mountain man of the old days, Hawken in hand.
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VIDEO CHAPTERS
0:00 The Hawken in the 20th Century
1:27 The Hawken in 2022
3:50 Mr. Woodfill shares his InvestArms Hawken experience
13:40 Bob's Wood Staining Technique
16:01 Wood Finish/Sealer
17:05 Bob's Philosophy on Hawken Wear
18:00 Metal Finishing Techniques
20:00 Bob Woodfill Reviews the InvestArms Gemmer Hawken
Muzzleloading, muzzleloader, muzzle loader, mountain man, longhunter, bushcraft, living history, longrifle, flintlock, blackpowder
#muzzleloader #muzzleloading #blackpowder
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That was so neat. What craftsmanship. Thank you for taking the time to explain all that, sir. And thank you to "I Love Muzzleloading" for filming and putting this together.
I remember the Friendship, sheep shed, commercial row from the 1970s with all the vendors and their parts. It was a magical place that did not shut down after dark. The vendors would eat dinner in their booth and stay open till about 10:00pm, talking to each other, sharing stories, talking to some of those men Bob mentions. It might still be that way but I have not camped at Friendship in 40 years.
Great video. Taught me everything I've done wrong on my 4 Hawken builds LOL.
What a downright enjoyable video! Everything that is right in the world bubbles forth from Mr. Woodfills enthusiasm. Lucky young man to tote that iron around this fall!
I bought the book The Hawken Rifle from NMLRA. I really enjoyed it. I have 2 Investarms Hawkens from their factory that I shoot every summer. Thanks for your video.
A very enjoyable and informative video. Thank you so very much, Sir!
Thank you, this was fantastic. I'm grateful to see people willing to share their knowledge with others. I'm saving this for future reference.
Nice video! A very good friend of mine used to collect original Hawken rifles. He passed away some time back. Don Stith was his name, your video caused me to remember him. He was a fine gentleman.
Great video ! VERY interesting information Ethan, thank you for sharing this!
I bought a Thompson Center Hawken Renegade 54 cal. there in September. I've got a few revolvers but this is my first rifle. I can't leave it alone. I shoot often and my wife is wanting her own now. It's not fancy, but good for my wants and needs.
Thanks for the video.
My wife and I have been shooting black powder for years. And it happened the same way for me. I took her with me a few times to dust of my 54 ….and it wasn’t very long after that and she wanted a Hawkins 50 kit..been love ever since.
I have quite a few T/C Renegade Rifles and they out shoot the custom made one at the matches. Maybe the shooter has something to do with that as well.
Miracles happen every day ! 👍👍👍😎. It’s great hearing him talk about them!
Absolutely fantastic. Been trying to learn as much as I can about proper Hawken builds and this information is extremely helpful. Another great video, thanks Ethan!
This is a great idea for future videos. You should try to get more interviews of these craftsmen to save for the future. This was an amazing overview of the great Hawkens. Thanks!
WOW! Thank you for preserving this for us. Such a wealth of knowledge and skill. As soon as I saw that rifle I knew it wasn't "modern." He does such a good job of explaining all the nuances. What a joy to watch!
Wish I can see a video on how to tune both percussion locks and flintlock locks.
Great interview. Thanks for bringing this to us.
Thanks for watching Snapper!
I have never made it to the Friendship Shoot. But as a young man, I did get to meet Roland Harper. As the story went, there was a match named after him there at the Friendship matches. Hope you got to meet him before he retired to Arizona. He was a heck of a shooter and a wealth of information for all of us out here in the west hungry for knowledge of anything BLACK POWDER !
I have a Lyman Great Plains rifle in 54 cal it is such a pleasure to shoot and very accurate, and heavy. I’ve taken a few deer with it, but I prefer my short barreled 50 , it is a great brush gun and I still get 2 in grouping’s at 50 yards . I love your tutorials I have learned a lot thanks.
I ordered your book am really enjoying it,learning a lot
Thanks, I found this very interesting.
I grabbed my Mike Adcock Hawken and compared it to your discussion of originals.
Mr. Woodfill, you did a great job on the Gemmer Hawken. I have one also, and you showed me things I need to do. I loved the presentation. Well done sir. An Inspiration for sure.
That is the best muzzleloading video I can recall ever watching. So plainly informative.
What a vast array of knowledge. Thank you sir.
Bob is one of the best!
Good to see Mr. Haney from Green Acres still alive and has a good hobby to boot!!!!
Awesome video Ethan!
That was awesome thank you.
A beautiful wealth of knowledge. Thank you for sharing!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video Ethan, thanks!
Awesome video. I learned a ton!
This is a great discussion, if not a better tutorial. Thx!
Beautiful job.
This is awesome. I wish you would do one on a full stock earlier version of a Hawken which could have been the possible flintlock first Hawkens of myth. I wonder what finish the Hawkens really used? Was it a linseed oil type finish or something else? I read somewhere the German Gunsmiths of PA used a kind of varnish, like a violin varnish, on their rifles in the 1700a.
This is such a cool little spotlight
That Investarms Hawken reminds me a lot of the old CVA Mountain Rifle. They look very much the same, the barrel is the same length, etc. The sights are a little different, but everything else appears to be the same.
Wonderful truly enjoyed the many helpful info and tips. Hope to get back to Friendship real soon!
Thank you so much. I hope to see you there!
I have a InvestArms .54 Hawken. Got it in 1995. It shoots fine , heavy as a fence post , but overall not bad. Only hang up is in the barrel by the nipple there is a " Fence" per say , with Pyrodex it will " hiccup" sometimes unless real black powder is used.
The stocks on these are new growth European Beech (the old ones yield wood that's even more knurled and figured than the best old growth red maple) . Its light like maple so Aquafortis should work well on it to get that proper deep red/ brown color.
Particularly enjoyed your little shop helper.
I’ve always wanted one with a tiger maple stock & polished brass trigger guard, butt plate & patch box, mainly for display. Have a 50 cal. Hunter cap lock now in the drab hunter model.
A Great Plains 50 cal. is also on my list of wanted.
Awesome info, thanks
Great video!
I was very glad to see the article in Muzzleblasts (Sep 2022) about this rifle, and this video really helps to expand on the article. Anyone interested in Hawken rifles should go to the Hawken Classic near St Louis, MO in 2023, 2024 or 2025 and see many original Hawken rifles. I also bought Bob’s book from the NMLRA and read it from cover to cover. My two Lyman Great Plains Rifles need a facelift following this recipe. Will this rifle be displayed at the Hawken Classic 2023? Thank you for making this video.
Thanks Todd!
fantastic video 👍👍
My wife bought a Hawkins 54 cal kit for me in 73 , I still have it ..the only thing I did since it was new was to have the barrel re blued .
That’s lovely!
Wealth of knowledge right there
Yes sir. those guys from back in the day at the Friendship meets really rescued the nearly lost art of Muzzleloading here in the US. One thing, What Mr. Woodfill is talking about with the metal finish is called "rust bluing", where you take the metal from browning and then boil it. Metal prep is key for this process, it has to be near perfect, and will show any imperfections like a neon sign. "Fire Bluing" is just that, flame bluing, and is a very precise operation involving raising the metal to an exact temp for a specified time. It's not for the fait of heart, and is best used on small bits like screw heads The grey finish he's talking about is what case hardening looks like after it's been exposed to oxidation (All steel is slowly oxidizing over time) and handling for years. Hawken rifles would have actual case hardened colors on the parts he mentions when new, but after 100+ years and frequent hard use, it would turn gray like he says. And yes, they leave FAR too much wood on the kits, but I'm sure it reduces the amount of spoiled stocks in production
Very good video, a lot of great information
Glad it was helpful!
I remember The Old Days when Turner Kirkland ( Early days of D-G-W )- The Plinker Flint, Or Percussion Kits - Parts were Reasonably Priced- Turner wanted to Promote the Sport, And it's done by NOT SCALPING THE CONSUMER ---
Great video.
You're one ( if not the THE most ) knowledgeable Person on this subject I've come across !
Thank You for the information .
Although I'm no longer a Youth ( You know this when People start saying that You're " X " amount of years " YOUNG " on Your Birthday ) !
I said that to say this ; I want to become a Beginner in this black powder rifle shooting world . I don't have a rifle at this time ( or enough knowledge to be safe , both to Myself and Others ) .
I'm going to HAVE to buy a used and working ( and accurate ) rifle with a short barrel . I'm not much into " wall hangers " I'm more into " go BANGERS " . I'm not able to afford a very expensive rifle either ! SO I guess that leaves Me between a rock & a hard place .
Legend! 🐐
Aw now I have to get a Gemmer Hawken kit too! Where does this hobby end!?!?
Great videos a lot of good info
It’s amazing to me how sharp that rifle is
Would be great idea to have some templates that a beginner can get ahold of to get the correct lines when carving the stock
Thank you
I enjoyed this video. I have an Ithaca Hawkin that I dearly love. It will go with me till I turn my toes up in a pine box.
Right on!
A fantastic video! Are there any books that can be used as reference material for building a Hawken Rifle?
what a great video
You are so kind! Thanks for watching
Jim has a kit in the works
Just so everyone knows this. The Missouri Historical Society has the Hawkins Bros. Rifling machine. In ST Louis Mo.
Looks like my Pedersoli River Hawken is a true (or at least very close) rendition of an original Hawken.
I knew that high quality custom made Hawkens can be expensive but I didn’t know that they can be sold as the same price as a .50 BMG, I learned something new.
Oh yes, they are quite valuable.
I like the green mountain barrels.
They are A+ barrels
Entertaining and informative! I just happened upon this vid,
Glad it was helpful!
I put a Hawkin kit together in 77, I was 16. Still use it. Question is, like in the war of 1812, AR or the Alamo. I know they made a muzzle loader that was like a single barrel shotgun. Most farmers used them for deer, birds etc. It shot buck and ball, birdshot etc. Question is, in the fighting, did militia use muskets or rifles? I know Morgan had riflemen. Second part of the question is after you fire the first shot on a rifle, if you do not patch the next ball it will be easier to load, but your round will drop about a foot, or more at 50 yards. What did they do in attacks? Thank you for your answer
Do you build a 58 caliber Hawkins I'd be interested in that
My Dad had a rifle ordered from Homer Dangler in 2017 or there about before declining health caused my dad to cancel the order. My dad passed in early 2018 and I heard that Homer had passed recently as well. We camped right next to Homer and Fran for years near the shotgun range in Friendship. Rip pop and Homer.
Wow Jeff, that's quite the story. Dangler was and still is an icon in the sport. May they all rest in peace!
I have an Austin Halleck flintlock hawken
Done subscribed! 1972 Jeremiah Johnson changed my life!
Welcome!
I was just looking to buy one of these
Build your own ....
Thanks for the video!
Do you have a contact link for Bob?
I had a Hawken Family question for him. Thanks!
Grew up in So Cal had Dicks Black Powder Gun Works a few 100 yrds down MY Street! Rode My Bike there in 1976 and bought an 1858 KIT at 12 yrs old still have it! put it next to ANY Adult's! I too think well cared for tools look Best! new tools make me suspicious. GOOD JOB! Looks Great!
I'm IN! I LIKE what you did with this Kit! these new kits are to rich for me and not enough "Me" in the kits. of late I have Re Built reproductions! I even have used my DYI fire blue quench for a wood stain. I want to be ready for any grand kids whom maybe Interested some day?
How does the TC 50 cal. Hawken stack up?.....curious....
I appreciate You posting this video !
I'm interested in buying a Gemmer rifle . I'm not able to
build a kit gun though . I don't even know what cal. to buy either .
What would be the most useful cal. to hunt the most game ( different ) ?
Is there a practical and legal cal. to hunt anything from
squirrels to deer ?
BTW ! ... I'm going to be going into MY
second Childhood
in a little while ( what would it cost for You to build ME
one of those babies )
i hope he gets a big elk very nice gun wow
Are you familiar with the Henry Leman rifle?
What's the length of pull
Very interesting video thank you for all the great information.
Glad you enjoyed it
Thompson center claimed making those muzzle loaders for Jeremiah Johnson
Yep
Como compro uma dessa
The scene where Jeremiah was drawing a bead on a Elk with Bear Claws giving him advice on staying behind the horse....Well the point I'm getting to....the rifle in Jeremiah's hands
DID NOT RESEMBLE A HAWKEN
👍👍
i am tottaly in love with this rifle , since i live in europe and it is the only option we have to get a fire arme to defend ourselves without going trough burocratic shit ! sadly !
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how do you buy from this company? i found their website but couldn’t find anything on ordering a rifle from them
Yes are no damn it
If you bought a kilber rifle kit you cant go wrong
Just when I thought I couldn't like this guy any more he says "its just like the difference... you know... there's beautiful women and there's really beautiful women. those lines are important." 🤣
Yup. The lines for the win. Beauty matters. To my eyes, the other factory offerings from CVA, TC, Traditions, etc, look too straight. Not enough drop at the comb, which may be the reason those things have such ugly, tall rear sights. They're just not "right." I think they are saving money on the width of the wood blanks.
I still have my 1980 Lyman GPR - which I suspect is the Gemmer in the video, but dressed up with german silver. Very good factory rifle.
(✨✨✨...🤠🧠💓🦅I) love muzzleload too , but my country does noy allow people to use gun.🤔
That stinks
🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸💪👍
I look at a few things.. IS that wood. Kild dried.., it’s light.. brittle.. looks good.. wouldn’t pay 2 cents for all that labor.. dude.. it’s immediately a rejection.. all the holding power is cooked away.. and everything you say until you under stand.,
Interesting perspective!
Looks like they went out of production.
I wonder if sell me a copy of the template for the lock
I use to have a TC - ST Louis Hawkins and it was in .45 cal and I would love to have a nother one but they want to much for them even in a kit and they no longer come in .45 cal it's all F-ing .50 cal who makes the cheapest kit say around 300 to 400 dollars because that's affordable for Kitchener 2-3-4 15000 dollars not worth it for me who makes the more affordable ones
The Hawken Brothers were NOT from Switzerland. They were born in Maryland.