@Sarnarath, agreed 100%! It's not how I pictured the Balrog when I read the book... but it's AWESOME! To me the movie Balrog is one of the all time greatest designs in cinema history. And that scene is just amazing to watch. The closeups up Gandalf's defiant face, Frodo screaming at the end, Aragorn's look of disbelief.... perfect!
🤣🤣🤣 Legit 💯! Just rude 😡 Years ago there was a guy in the apartment above me.... all hours of the night playing Call of Duty and telling into his microphone.... He is soooo lucky I didn't have Balrogs powers of fire and shadow 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Just think it's a superb way to deal with antisocial neighbors If you crossed it with a praying mantis it would say grace before it burned their house down
@@petrstanovsky7648 I think most of us here think the Ballrog got a rough deal same with Smaug they did all that to the poor dragon then got themselves killed dragons guard cursed treasure but there are always some yobs that mess it up lol
Thanks, I really appreciate that! 🙏 honestly just trying to keep Tolkien fun (I feel like it's become common to treat Tolkien a bit too serious sometimes). Really glad you liked it! 😅 Next video later this week: how did Isildur create the ghost army? 👻👻👻🤔
I get why they changed it for the movies. Knowing arcane and mysterious secrets is kind of the whole point of being a wizard. Hell, the Wizard literally comes from an Old English term for "Wise One." So having Gandalf know about the Balrog when nobody else did was actually thematically on-point in a way that randomly having Aragorn's foresight (which the movies had never once even hinted at up until that point) kick in to warn them would have been.
@rmartinson19, yeah I agree with you. Well said! I actually like the movie change, personally: * talking about Aragorn having foresight opens up potentially WAY too many plot holes * makes Saruman and Gandalf seem super cool and mysterious * creates good tension... "what is this in the mines that he is scared of?" * makes his sacrifice seem more like a choice, than bad luck. I agree... it's a super smart way to approach it!!
Great to see that you are laying out the differences between the books and the movies. Love the little video versions of the Balrogs. Maybe you should consider getting into the debate about whether the Balrogs had wings or not.🤷♀️
Thanks. Glad you like it. I'm not talented enough to create complex art... so I am sticking with pixel art 🤣🤣 Also, fwiw, I read the books long before the movies ever came out. So my imagination of the Balrog was WAY different than the movie. In my mind, it was mostly shadow and black and hard to see... more smokey than solid. And it was moving through the mines, so was not too tall, maybe like 10 ft or so? And definitely DID NOT have any wings!!!🤣 All that being said, love seeing other people's imagination. Movie balrog has to be one of the most iconic and awesome monster designs ever!!!
Very entertaining and the quality of your video is elite. I am glad I get to subscribe to your channel now and watch it grow into a success, you seem to deserve it.
Thanks for the positive feelings. I really appreciate that! I'm a new channel and don't really know what I'm doing yet, but having a lot of fun 🤣. I'm glad you liked the vid.
I don’t like it when people wake me up when I’m asleep. Especially very loud people. When they do wake me up, I’m usually like “UGHHH. Do I have to get up???” It’s when I get angry that I go full Balrog
Agreed. 100% Years ago there was a guy in the apartment above me.... all hours of the night playing Call of Duty and telling into his microphone.... He is soooo lucky I didn't have Balrogs powers of fire and shadow 😝🔥🔥🔥🔥
@landrecce Welcome aboard! Really glad you like the video.... have fun looking through the others. Thanks for the compliments! I really appreciate it. ＼（〇◡ｏ）／ In my personal opinion, lots of Tolkien sites have gotten pretty serious, so just trying to have some fun 🤓🤣
I love your wonderful inovated way of answering the questions on lord of the Rings I am a total fan of your creative works its really excellent Please keep it up I am enjoying it so much
Aragon in the book: half elf ageless bad ass with a gift of foresight. Aragon in movie: a weird dude with a sword sometime a bow running away from something. Had a cute girlfriend though.
Poor dwarves. 1. Eru didn't created them but probably gave them life out of pity anyways. 2. Smaug evicted the dwarves. 3. The Balrog couldn't sleep with those noisy clankings of the Dwarves' digging. 4. They dug so deep that they were almost forgotten later on by the other middle-Earth species.
I do agree. Dwarves always seem to get left out! And then there was the time ages ago when Elves first saw Dwarves, didn't know what they were, and hunted them for sport... sheeesh!! (Also, I have a secret theory that Orcs are actually Dwarves 🤫, which would be even more tragic)
Quick question. While they didn't know that there was a Balrog in Moiria didn't they know that there was something there. Durin's bane as it was known but no one knew what that was.
Yeah - your exactly right. I probably should have mentioned that in the video now that you say it. 🤦 They suspected there was something there when Durin's folks were wiped out long ago, but had no idea what it was or if it was still around so many years later. And even when Balin's group stopped sending messages to everyone, they still held out a bit of hope that Balin and the Dwarves were ok. But for sure everyone recognized the possibility of a problem in there. Your def right!
@thegreyhavens167 Durin's bane could have been anything. Maybe Sauron passed through Moiria for some reason and wiped out the original Moiria. No one knew if it was a resident there in Kaza Dum (spelling is wrong I'll just say Moiria) or a transient threat.
@@naraiceylobYou're answering your own question you asked in your original post. You ask if they did know that it was something there, "Durin's bane", but then you answer it yourself: "no one knew if it was something there still".
I thought it was Boromir who was most against going through Moria? I could be Mandela'ing myself somehow, but I was certain he dug his heels so deep on the matter, that he explicitly said he'd only go through with it if literally everyone else unanimously voted in favor of it.
Was Gothmog really higher rank than Sauron? I thought Sauron was Morgoth’s chief lieutenant. I have not read too much extra literature on Balrogs, but I have heard there were two thoughts behind how many existed. Anywhere from thousands to 3. I always went with the idea there were four, and that this was paralleled by the amount of Istari the Valar sent. Similar concept to the nine members of the fellowship to match the nine nazgul.
Great comment. Great question. Well said. As for how many Balrogs, it's all over the place. Your totally right. If you want to make all the stores work, you probably need at least 6 or 7, in my opinion. Like when the elves says there was a "host" of Balrogs in one of the wars ... to me I read it as a dozen or so ... But any guess is as good as another, right? I read it as Gothmog was second in command for a long time, with Sauron as a lower guy. Honestly, for the first 2-3 thousand years Sauron isn't mentioned even once! While Gothmog is there all the time eventually though, Sauron does become the number two guy. That's at least how I read it.
I get the impression Sauron and Gothmog are actually equals. Gothmog was the field commander while Sauron was in charge of other things. Logistics maybe.
IIRC it was Tolkien's earlier writings that implied that there were relatively few balrogs, but his later writings expanded that number greatly. As for Sauron, I can't recall anything about the relationship between him and gothmog. They were both considered to be "lieutenants" of Morgoth. Gothmog was a front-line military leader whereas Sauron was more of the rear-echelon advisor type.
@@Kreege Well said. I agree with a lot of that. Yeah now that I think on it hard to say Gothmog was his leader. I mean he was the leader of the "armies" of Morgoth, so I guess it depends if you think Sauron was outside that. For me, personally (the books def don't say this) I always pictures Gothmog as his #2 for the first part of the time, and eventually Sauron overcame him for the #2 spot. Just seems like we hear about Gothmog all the time, but never Sauron until waaaaaaay into the first age. ＼（〇_ｏ）／ But def agree on the Balrogs and Tolkien flip-flopping. I dont see how the story works unless there are at least 8-10 minimum. I mean they surrounded Ungoliant. And there had to be a lot of them to defeat her if she was tougher than Morgoth (like I don't see 5 Balrogs being tougher to beat than Morgoth). And there are other places where they are described as a unit in the army... which surely is more than 5 or 6. So in my mind, more like a dozen or so. But honestly every opinion is equally good here 🤣🤣
Yeah that's fair. I probably should not have been so "matter-of-fact" about the way I said that. It's a good callout. The Balrog stuff is all over the place in Tolkien's works. At one point he thought they were pretty common, and at another point he thought there were only 5 or 6, and .... who knows ＼（〇_ｏ）／ Either way, hope you liked the vid! 🤣 Question for you: Did you see the movies first or read the books first? And did the Balrog in the films match what you imagined when you read it?
@@thegreyhavens167 Did enjoy the video and you are correct, it's all over the place with the Balrog, there 5 named and then there later with some stuff added to the battle during the Siege of Angaband that "Gothmog leads a dozen of his kind forth". Hence usually people accept there where more than just the named ones. Also I read the Hobbit before I saw the movies but not the LOTR series which I read afterwards and to my suprise, my father handed me the Simarilion which we apperantly always had in the home. And I must say the movies did get pretty close to what I had in mind.
It's a fair question, well said! Answer: Gandalf and Saruman knew what Balrogs were, and probably had some past experiences with them. And they knew there was "something" inside Moria that killed a bunch of Dwarves. They just didn't know what it was, if it was still in there, and that it was going to be a Balrog. What do you think?
@@thegreyhavens167 thank you! So, I'm guessing they didn't have any kind of "godly" or magical knowledge/wisdom of the other Maiar on Middle Earth? I know they knew about Sauron because they were sent to help Middle Earth against him, but I guess they never knew the full history of the War of Wrath and the fact that one of the Maiar on Morgoth's side not named Sauron got away or what became of that Balrog because they weren't there at the time. Edit: spelling
@@swamijiethey were there and actively participated in the fight. The reason they didn't know about DB, or the two to six other surviving Balrogs, is scale. The War of Wrath was absolutely GARGANTUAN in scale. Think of it as the US going to war with China for scale and an entire continent being the battle line. The forces involved literally sank a portion of Middle Earth roughly the size of Texas into the sea. In such a massive conflict it was relatively easy for some of Morgoth's forces to slip away and hide.
do we know what happened or where the other 6 or so balrogs went after the war? I can't find a lot of lore on the balrogs and I wish he wrote so much more about them. They just seem so bad ass. The fight between Gandalf and DB from the movie would have been better if it followed the book fight at the door.
@@thegreyhavens167 :) You're welcome! Thanks for these amazing videos. Yes, maybe about Bree? I really love how they portrayed it in the Movie. (Just a suggestion, maybe get a new channel logo? I can help with that) :)
Agreed. Honestly I LOVE LOVE that scene where they mentally battle from either side of the door. Shame they had to cut it for the movie.... it's so EPIC
We know Dain looked past the gate and glimpsed Durin's Bane. Did he not recall it in clear enough detail for Gandalf to understand it? And why did Balin ignore his advice and attempt to retake Moria?
@@thegreyhavens167 totally right, they are the punk of that era. Maybe they should do a real movie on a Balrog and not a shitty WOKE, MODERNE WRITING movie or series and done by someone who will respect the source material.
Didn't read the books, but it seems that I prefer the film's version of Gandalf not wanting to go to Moria. Am I biased or would I end up preferring the book version once I read them ? Grey Havens, which do you prefer and why ?
I think both are honestly really good. * Book version is more deep, more to think about, and lasts longer as an intellectual thing to consider. * Movie version is quick, requires little dialog, is efficient in it's storytelling, creates a lot of tension (what's in those caves?!), and makes Gandalf's sacrifice seem less like bad luck and more intentional. So if I had to pick... I think I would go with the movie version too.
Great question.... I read it as "probably not", but I think most people read it as "probably true". Sorry for the crazy answer 🤣. Most people read it as there are still 3 or 4.... somewhere????
@willlamb9675, thanks for the positive vibes. I'm glad you liked it! I am making some guesses here, but this is what I think: * Bilbo wrote or translated all the of appendices, the Silmarillian, the Lost Tales, the Ring of Morgoth.... like everything that's published by Tolkien expect LOTR (written mostly by Frodo) was written by BB. I think he spent most of his time doing that. * Elrond was the greatest healer in ME, and his ring amplified this. So I also think he was also getting healing from Elrond for that little sliver of Sauron's spirit that attached to his. Note: in the films he gets really old really fast when he gives up the ring. Not so in the books. He stays young and energetic and awesome (just like Smeagol does). It's not until the ring takes a Lava bath that Bilbo starts to age suddenly. What do you think he was doing? Any guesses from your side?
I could see that. I mean Rivendell is a pretty sweet vacation spot for sure! And you got cool visitors like Gandalf and Galadriel and Aragorn popping in every once in a while. Pretty epic place to hang out.
@@thegreyhavens167 love the vids again, You mentioned in some video that Bilbo wrote the first part of FOTR, the part until they got into Rivendell and that's why Nazgul are more goofy and the vibes overall, are the other books goofy and a little childish too? as Bilbo wrote them, I haven't read books yet
Kinda yeah. Bilbo wrote the Hobbit... which is definitely a kids book. It has a similar vibe to "The Princess Bride", if you have seen or read that. I personally LOVE it, but I read it many times starting in elementary school. When Tolkien wrote the LOTR, he started out writing a kids book sequel to the Hobbit. But it then turned into an epic Arthurian tale around 20% in. So he just left the first 20% a kids book, and the rest a dramatic epic! 🤣 The shift is... odd... so he wrote an in-universe excuse that the author switched. Hard to say exactly where Bilbo took over, but that's my best guess.
Love IT! I have a short video here on Boromir if you are interested. One of my first vids: ua-cam.com/users/shorts1sqUeAxPuKA?feature=share But if your not in a video mood.... definitely a good guy.
@markusberwald6844, it's really neither... it's a family thing. Most of the people in Aragorn's family from his mother's side have the gift of Foresight. Note Elrond has this gift too, and Aragorn's family comes from Elrond's as well, so I gotta think it's somehow liked but just a guess.
Great Question! Here is my two cents (though others might read it differently): * The Balrog is def not a team mate with Sauron. They both served Morgoth, but for very different reasons. * It's not clear that Balrogs ever liked Orcs or Men on others. I think they felt they were above them. * Balrogs are gods of Consumption and Destruction. Probably would rather watch the whole world burn, Orcs included. Well, that's my personal thoughts, but not cannon or anything - just how I read it. What do you think?
@@thegreyhavens167 thanks for reply, i am true lotr fan but once again i am so fascinated how complex and confusing, in good way,Tolkein masterpieces are, so much details that decades and decades after we still have discussion about it...
Referring to the Valars as gods is justifiable because of the powers they have, the participation they have in the creation etc. We know they are not true gods, as there is only one god in Tolkien's legendarium. But calling the Mair minor gods is too much of a stretch. If you are going to use the expression minor gods should not be used to describe the Valar?
Jaime, I get where your coming from. Certainly not saying your wrong, but polite challenge to you here: * my site has both book readers and movie only fans... so I can't just throw out words like Valar and Maiar and Eru and such unless I'm going to spend a lot of time going into them, so gotta keep it in vernacular, easy terms for everyone. * Tolkien has one "God" in his world, but many "gods", right? * The Valar are absolutely "gods" just like the greek gods. Manwe is very analogous to the god Zeus, Ulwe to the god Posiden, etc. For a non-reader, describing them the same way we do the greek gods or norse gods makes sense to me. * In pretty much all polytheistic mythos.... even the "angelic spirits" are still referred to as "gods". Even a simple Hercules or Gilgamesh is still called a demi-god. While I know Tolkien doesn't use these terms this way, I think 99% of the world does when talking about mythology (which is what this is, right?). So there you go. Do you think I'm way off? What would you suggest? Really interested in your feedback on what you would suggest is the best way to communicate these things.... thanks again!
man, calling the ainur gods just feels so weird to me. i know it’s technically true in a way but this is a monotheistic universe and my religious little soul cannot cope
@oguzhanenescetin5702, thanks for the positive vibes. I appreciate that! Polite challenge to you though, I always read it that Sauron was under Gothmog for a really long time. I mean Gothmog joined up with Melkor thousands of years before Sauron. He was called the Chief Lieutenant, the High Captain, and was clearly the leader of the army. And Sauron was hardly mentioned at all, and when we was did not seem to be too high at first. He led a small island with a tower, while Gothmog was head of all of Angband! So in my mind he was the top dog for a really long time, and then later Sauron eventually. But I guess the text never explicitly says anything like that (that I can remember). What are your thoughts? How do you read it? Would love to know...
@@thegreyhavens167 Sauron was said to be greatest, most powerfull and the most perilous of the enemies servants. Sauron led Angbands armies while Morgoth was captured “Among those of his servants that have names the greatest was that spirit whom the Eldar called Sauron, or Gorthaur the Cruel. In his beginning he was of the Maiar of Aulë, and he remained mighty in the lore of that people. In all the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than his master in that for long he served another and not himself. But in after years he rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void.” “In all the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part ...” “Melkor had corrupted many spirits -some great, as Sauron, or less so, as Balrogs.” “Sauron who was thronéd as thane most mighty neath Morgoth Bauglir; whom that mighty one bade ‘Go ravage the realm of the robber Thingol, and mar the magic of Melian the Queen.’ “Some say also that secretly Morgoth or his black shadow and spirit in spite of the Valar creeps back over the Walls of the World in the North and East and visits the world, others that this is Sauron his great chief who escaped the Last Battle and dwells still in dark places, and perverts Men to his dreadful worship.” “Men called him Sauron, and as a god in after days beneath his rod bewildered bowed to him, and made his ghastly temples in the shade. Not yet by Men enthralled adored, now was he Morgoth’s mightiest lord, Master of Wolves, whose shivering howl for ever echoed in the hills, and foul enchantments and dark sigaldry did weave and wield. In glamoury that necromancer held his hosts of phantoms and of wandering ghosts, of misbegotten or spell-wronged monsters that about him thronged, working his bidding dark and vile: the werewolves of the Wizard’s Isle.” “The pine-forest Morgoth took and turned it to a place of dread as has been told, and the watchtower of Sirion he took and made it into a stronghold of evil and menace. There dwelt Sauron the chief servant of Morgoth, a sorcerer of dreadful power, the lord of wolves.” “But at length after the fall of Fingolfin, which is told hereafter, Sauron came against Orodreth, the warden of the tower, with a host of Balrogs. Sauron was the chief servant of the evil Vala, whom he had suborned to his service in Valinor from among the people of the Gods.”
Yeah - I get it. Just trying to keep it simple, especially for movie-only folks that have never heard of Eru or the Valar or any of that. I think they are most similar in other stories to the Greek "gods", so I went with that. I dunno... I gotta give this some thought and figure out the best, easiest way to talk about Maiar 🤔🤔 Thanks for the feedback! What do you think?
Great question. It's never directly addressed, but here are my thoughts: * the gods had an entire army of thousands of boats and tens of thousands of troops or possible even more. way too much for the dozens of eagles. * they also had all the stuff of war to transport. the war took 40 years. * lastly, it's unclear if eagles can carry gods or not. they dont seem to be as beefy in the books as in the movies to me. Those are my thoughts. What do you think?
@@thegreyhavens167 I guess what I was getting at is they are GOD's , " think it and they'll be destroyed" kinda thing. Great book series I've read 12 or 13 times watched the movies about the same and just over 25 years ago I names my new born son Stryder I know the spelling is off but it looks better on paper with a y.
Yep, I know. Just trying to keep it simple for movie-only folks. My traffic seemed to be about 33% deep book fans and 66% movie fans... so trying to tow that line. I dunno, do you think I should go a level deeper on these?
What a strange edit. I'm guessing this is done for a much younger audience than anything I qualify for at 43, so I will not subscribe. Though I left a like at least. I think the Balrog was not evil from the start, but corrupted by Morgoth. The information in this video I thought was quite good, just the editing was not for me.
@Irdanwen, thanks for the comment and the like. I appreciate that! Yep, my channel isn't for everyone, to be sure. Honestly just making videos on things I love that kinda make me laugh. Your not the first person to think my sense of humor is.... strange 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Have an awesome day!! Thanks again!!
The Balrog of Moria was one of the best things about the movie, a cinema classic scene.
@Sarnarath, agreed 100%! It's not how I pictured the Balrog when I read the book... but it's AWESOME!
To me the movie Balrog is one of the all time greatest designs in cinema history. And that scene is just amazing to watch. The closeups up Gandalf's defiant face, Frodo screaming at the end, Aragorn's look of disbelief.... perfect!
Agreed.
Quite rude of the dwarves to wake up the Balrog. I think the Balrog's actions were totally justified.
🤣🤣🤣 Legit 💯! Just rude 😡
Years ago there was a guy in the apartment above me.... all hours of the night playing Call of Duty and telling into his microphone.... He is soooo lucky I didn't have Balrogs powers of fire and shadow 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Just think it's a superb way to deal with antisocial neighbors If you crossed it with a praying mantis it would say grace before it burned their house down
Yeah he even stayed in Moria to not bother anyone...but no there has to come a god into Moria ofc the balrog wants to defend himself...
Well, he was just retirying in some deep hole after his master defeat and friends death in last war and they woke him up. I would be upset too. 😅
@@petrstanovsky7648 I think most of us here think the Ballrog got a rough deal same with Smaug they did all that to the poor dragon then got themselves killed dragons guard cursed treasure but there are always some yobs that mess it up lol
Thank you so much, you make Tolkien stories so interesting, i like the life and effect you bring into it.
Thanks, I really appreciate that! 🙏 honestly just trying to keep Tolkien fun (I feel like it's become common to treat Tolkien a bit too serious sometimes). Really glad you liked it! 😅
Next video later this week: how did Isildur create the ghost army? 👻👻👻🤔
I get why they changed it for the movies. Knowing arcane and mysterious secrets is kind of the whole point of being a wizard. Hell, the Wizard literally comes from an Old English term for "Wise One." So having Gandalf know about the Balrog when nobody else did was actually thematically on-point in a way that randomly having Aragorn's foresight (which the movies had never once even hinted at up until that point) kick in to warn them would have been.
@rmartinson19, yeah I agree with you. Well said! I actually like the movie change, personally:
* talking about Aragorn having foresight opens up potentially WAY too many plot holes
* makes Saruman and Gandalf seem super cool and mysterious
* creates good tension... "what is this in the mines that he is scared of?"
* makes his sacrifice seem more like a choice, than bad luck.
I agree... it's a super smart way to approach it!!
Great to see that you are laying out the differences between the books and the movies. Love the little video versions of the Balrogs. Maybe you should consider getting into the debate about whether the Balrogs had wings or not.🤷♀️
Thanks. Glad you like it. I'm not talented enough to create complex art... so I am sticking with pixel art 🤣🤣
Also, fwiw, I read the books long before the movies ever came out. So my imagination of the Balrog was WAY different than the movie. In my mind, it was mostly shadow and black and hard to see... more smokey than solid. And it was moving through the mines, so was not too tall, maybe like 10 ft or so? And definitely DID NOT have any wings!!!🤣
All that being said, love seeing other people's imagination. Movie balrog has to be one of the most iconic and awesome monster designs ever!!!
Very entertaining and the quality of your video is elite. I am glad I get to subscribe to your channel now and watch it grow into a success, you seem to deserve it.
Thanks for the positive feelings. I really appreciate that! I'm a new channel and don't really know what I'm doing yet, but having a lot of fun 🤣. I'm glad you liked the vid.
I don’t like it when people wake me up when I’m asleep. Especially very loud people. When they do wake me up, I’m usually like “UGHHH. Do I have to get up???” It’s when I get angry that I go full Balrog
Agreed. 100%
Years ago there was a guy in the apartment above me.... all hours of the night playing Call of Duty and telling into his microphone.... He is soooo lucky I didn't have Balrogs powers of fire and shadow 😝🔥🔥🔥🔥
@@thegreyhavens167 Yeah. I feel like some people (my family) are also glad that I don’t have the Balrog powers
Dude! This video is so awesome and your sense of humour and storytelling skills are perfection! Love at first sight! Subscribed! 🧙♂️✨️😍
@landrecce Welcome aboard! Really glad you like the video.... have fun looking through the others. Thanks for the compliments! I really appreciate it. ＼（〇◡ｏ）／
In my personal opinion, lots of Tolkien sites have gotten pretty serious, so just trying to have some fun 🤓🤣
I love this kind of lore explanation, will you do aragorns life timeline?
Thanks for the positive vibes!!! Life of Aragorn... 🤔 I like it!!! I just added it to the list. Thanks!
2:25: That's exactly what lembas looks like!
🤣 I mean they come in packs of 6... so it's actually impressive that Pippin says he only ate 4, right?
I love your wonderful inovated way of answering the questions on lord of the Rings I am a total fan of your creative works its really excellent Please keep it up I am enjoying it so much
Thanks 🙇 I appreciate the positive vibes. I'm really glad you enjoy them. Fwiw, I am having a ton of fun making these! 😅😅
Aragon in the book: half elf ageless bad ass with a gift of foresight.
Aragon in movie: a weird dude with a sword sometime a bow running away from something. Had a cute girlfriend though.
🤣🤣🤣 Best Comment of the Week Award!!! 🏆🏆🏆
This is a cool channel. You do good work.
Awwww yeah! Thanks (ノ^_^)ノ. Glad you liked it.
Poor dwarves.
1. Eru didn't created them but probably gave them life out of pity anyways.
2. Smaug evicted the dwarves.
3. The Balrog couldn't sleep with those noisy clankings of the Dwarves' digging.
4. They dug so deep that they were almost forgotten later on by the other middle-Earth species.
I do agree. Dwarves always seem to get left out! And then there was the time ages ago when Elves first saw Dwarves, didn't know what they were, and hunted them for sport... sheeesh!!
(Also, I have a secret theory that Orcs are actually Dwarves 🤫, which would be even more tragic)
@@thegreyhavens167Orcs are dwarves? Never heard that one, but why the heck not!
Quick question.
While they didn't know that there was a Balrog in Moiria didn't they know that there was something there. Durin's bane as it was known but no one knew what that was.
Yeah - your exactly right. I probably should have mentioned that in the video now that you say it. 🤦
They suspected there was something there when Durin's folks were wiped out long ago, but had no idea what it was or if it was still around so many years later. And even when Balin's group stopped sending messages to everyone, they still held out a bit of hope that Balin and the Dwarves were ok. But for sure everyone recognized the possibility of a problem in there. Your def right!
@thegreyhavens167 Durin's bane could have been anything. Maybe Sauron passed through Moiria for some reason and wiped out the original Moiria.
No one knew if it was a resident there in Kaza Dum (spelling is wrong I'll just say Moiria) or a transient threat.
@@naraiceylobYou're answering your own question you asked in your original post. You ask if they did know that it was something there, "Durin's bane", but then you answer it yourself: "no one knew if it was something there still".
I thought it was Boromir who was most against going through Moria? I could be Mandela'ing myself somehow, but I was certain he dug his heels so deep on the matter, that he explicitly said he'd only go through with it if literally everyone else unanimously voted in favor of it.
Great Video! 🙌🏻
Awww yeah!!! ＼（〇◡ｏ）／ Thanks!, Glad you liked it.
Was Gothmog really higher rank than Sauron? I thought Sauron was Morgoth’s chief lieutenant.
I have not read too much extra literature on Balrogs, but I have heard there were two thoughts behind how many existed. Anywhere from thousands to 3. I always went with the idea there were four, and that this was paralleled by the amount of Istari the Valar sent. Similar concept to the nine members of the fellowship to match the nine nazgul.
Great comment. Great question. Well said.
As for how many Balrogs, it's all over the place. Your totally right. If you want to make all the stores work, you probably need at least 6 or 7, in my opinion. Like when the elves says there was a "host" of Balrogs in one of the wars ... to me I read it as a dozen or so ... But any guess is as good as another, right?
I read it as Gothmog was second in command for a long time, with Sauron as a lower guy. Honestly, for the first 2-3 thousand years Sauron isn't mentioned even once! While Gothmog is there all the time eventually though, Sauron does become the number two guy. That's at least how I read it.
I get the impression Sauron and Gothmog are actually equals. Gothmog was the field commander while Sauron was in charge of other things. Logistics maybe.
IIRC it was Tolkien's earlier writings that implied that there were relatively few balrogs, but his later writings expanded that number greatly. As for Sauron, I can't recall anything about the relationship between him and gothmog. They were both considered to be "lieutenants" of Morgoth. Gothmog was a front-line military leader whereas Sauron was more of the rear-echelon advisor type.
@@Kreege Well said. I agree with a lot of that. Yeah now that I think on it hard to say Gothmog was his leader. I mean he was the leader of the "armies" of Morgoth, so I guess it depends if you think Sauron was outside that. For me, personally (the books def don't say this) I always pictures Gothmog as his #2 for the first part of the time, and eventually Sauron overcame him for the #2 spot. Just seems like we hear about Gothmog all the time, but never Sauron until waaaaaaay into the first age. ＼（〇_ｏ）／
But def agree on the Balrogs and Tolkien flip-flopping. I dont see how the story works unless there are at least 8-10 minimum. I mean they surrounded Ungoliant. And there had to be a lot of them to defeat her if she was tougher than Morgoth (like I don't see 5 Balrogs being tougher to beat than Morgoth). And there are other places where they are described as a unit in the army... which surely is more than 5 or 6. So in my mind, more like a dozen or so. But honestly every opinion is equally good here 🤣🤣
@@thegreyhavens167I think Sauron is #4 when battles start on First Age.
1. Morgoth
2. Gothmog
3. Glaurung
4. Sauron.
There's 3 Balrogs whose deaths where never confirmed, out of the 16 we know of.
Yeah that's fair. I probably should not have been so "matter-of-fact" about the way I said that. It's a good callout. The Balrog stuff is all over the place in Tolkien's works. At one point he thought they were pretty common, and at another point he thought there were only 5 or 6, and .... who knows ＼（〇_ｏ）／
Either way, hope you liked the vid! 🤣
Question for you: Did you see the movies first or read the books first? And did the Balrog in the films match what you imagined when you read it?
@@thegreyhavens167 Did enjoy the video and you are correct, it's all over the place with the Balrog, there 5 named and then there later with some stuff added to the battle during the Siege of Angaband that "Gothmog leads a dozen of his kind forth".
Hence usually people accept there where more than just the named ones.
Also I read the Hobbit before I saw the movies but not the LOTR series which I read afterwards and to my suprise, my father handed me the Simarilion which we apperantly always had in the home.
And I must say the movies did get pretty close to what I had in mind.
Wow, I need to reread the books. I completely forgot about this XD
Question: Durin's Bane being a Maia like Gandalf and Saruman, wouldn't they know about other Maiar, including any balrog like Bane?
It's a fair question, well said!
Answer: Gandalf and Saruman knew what Balrogs were, and probably had some past experiences with them. And they knew there was "something" inside Moria that killed a bunch of Dwarves. They just didn't know what it was, if it was still in there, and that it was going to be a Balrog.
What do you think?
@@thegreyhavens167 thank you! So, I'm guessing they didn't have any kind of "godly" or magical knowledge/wisdom of the other Maiar on Middle Earth? I know they knew about Sauron because they were sent to help Middle Earth against him, but I guess they never knew the full history of the War of Wrath and the fact that one of the Maiar on Morgoth's side not named Sauron got away or what became of that Balrog because they weren't there at the time.
Edit: spelling
@@swamijiethey were there and actively participated in the fight. The reason they didn't know about DB, or the two to six other surviving Balrogs, is scale. The War of Wrath was absolutely GARGANTUAN in scale. Think of it as the US going to war with China for scale and an entire continent being the battle line. The forces involved literally sank a portion of Middle Earth roughly the size of Texas into the sea. In such a massive conflict it was relatively easy for some of Morgoth's forces to slip away and hide.
@@joshuahogan3475 thank you!
do we know what happened or where the other 6 or so balrogs went after the war? I can't find a lot of lore on the balrogs and I wish he wrote so much more about them. They just seem so bad ass. The fight between Gandalf and DB from the movie would have been better if it followed the book fight at the door.
I really like you videos! Keep up the good work! :)
Thanks 👍. I really appreciate the positive vibes!! 😄
Are there any topics you think would be cool to explore? 🤔
@@thegreyhavens167 :) You're welcome! Thanks for these amazing videos.
Yes, maybe about Bree? I really love how they portrayed it in the Movie.
(Just a suggestion, maybe get a new channel logo? I can help with that) :)
This channel is really good. Just subbed 🎉
Great video and well worth time
@underwhelming832 , thanks for the positive vibes! I appreciate that. Glad you liked it.
"Something came into the room. I felt it through the door." That implies that Gandalf did not know about the balrog.
Agreed. Honestly I LOVE LOVE that scene where they mentally battle from either side of the door. Shame they had to cut it for the movie.... it's so EPIC
We know Dain looked past the gate and glimpsed Durin's Bane. Did he not recall it in clear enough detail for Gandalf to understand it? And why did Balin ignore his advice and attempt to retake Moria?
Durin's Bane real name is Felagrog.
He was 5th most powerful Balrog-Lord, out of seven existed.
Poor barog 😂 01:24
🤣 I mean those dwarves kinda had it coming, right?? 🔥🔥
@@thegreyhavens167 totally right, they are the punk of that era.
Maybe they should do a real movie on a Balrog and not a shitty WOKE, MODERNE WRITING movie or series and done by someone who will respect the source material.
Really nice vid,got yourself a new sub
Thanks for the positive vibes, I really appreciate that! Glad you liked the vid!
Didn't read the books, but it seems that I prefer the film's version of Gandalf not wanting to go to Moria. Am I biased or would I end up preferring the book version once I read them ? Grey Havens, which do you prefer and why ?
I think both are honestly really good.
* Book version is more deep, more to think about, and lasts longer as an intellectual thing to consider.
* Movie version is quick, requires little dialog, is efficient in it's storytelling, creates a lot of tension (what's in those caves?!), and makes Gandalf's sacrifice seem less like bad luck and more intentional.
So if I had to pick... I think I would go with the movie version too.
Looks like Aragorn is one man army.😂 He's the best warrior, the real wizard, the hidden elf and the king with the best speech. 😎
Is there a chance that other Balrogs still exist, and are just still asleep, or in the far reaches of middle earth or something?
Great question.... I read it as "probably not", but I think most people read it as "probably true". Sorry for the crazy answer 🤣.
Most people read it as there are still 3 or 4.... somewhere????
Question What happened to Bilbo in the time period form when he was at Rivendale to when he and Frodo go to the undying lands also love the videos
@willlamb9675, thanks for the positive vibes. I'm glad you liked it!
I am making some guesses here, but this is what I think:
* Bilbo wrote or translated all the of appendices, the Silmarillian, the Lost Tales, the Ring of Morgoth.... like everything that's published by Tolkien expect LOTR (written mostly by Frodo) was written by BB. I think he spent most of his time doing that.
* Elrond was the greatest healer in ME, and his ring amplified this. So I also think he was also getting healing from Elrond for that little sliver of Sauron's spirit that attached to his.
Note: in the films he gets really old really fast when he gives up the ring. Not so in the books. He stays young and energetic and awesome (just like Smeagol does). It's not until the ring takes a Lava bath that Bilbo starts to age suddenly.
What do you think he was doing? Any guesses from your side?
@@thegreyhavens167 I think that Bilbo rested at Rivendale and admired the the world
I could see that. I mean Rivendell is a pretty sweet vacation spot for sure! And you got cool visitors like Gandalf and Galadriel and Aragorn popping in every once in a while. Pretty epic place to hang out.
@@thegreyhavens167 love the vids again, You mentioned in some video that Bilbo wrote the first part of FOTR, the part until they got into Rivendell and that's why Nazgul are more goofy and the vibes overall, are the other books goofy and a little childish too? as Bilbo wrote them, I haven't read books yet
Kinda yeah. Bilbo wrote the Hobbit... which is definitely a kids book. It has a similar vibe to "The Princess Bride", if you have seen or read that. I personally LOVE it, but I read it many times starting in elementary school.
When Tolkien wrote the LOTR, he started out writing a kids book sequel to the Hobbit. But it then turned into an epic Arthurian tale around 20% in. So he just left the first 20% a kids book, and the rest a dramatic epic! 🤣 The shift is... odd... so he wrote an in-universe excuse that the author switched. Hard to say exactly where Bilbo took over, but that's my best guess.
Question: IS BOROMIR EVIL OR GOOD?
I love boromir, but i need a boromir episode
Love IT! I have a short video here on Boromir if you are interested. One of my first vids: ua-cam.com/users/shorts1sqUeAxPuKA?feature=share
But if your not in a video mood.... definitely a good guy.
This is gold
Aw yeah! Thanks for sending the positive vibes my way! I'm glad you like it 🤣
So does that mean when yhe balrog shows up everyone just kinda collectivly FREAKS OUT BECAUSE I WOULD'VE
Boromir didn't want to go either
Boromir was the smart one this time. (cant believe I just said that 🤣🤣🤣)
For Aragon’s foresight is that a numenorien thing or a Aragon thing
@markusberwald6844, it's really neither... it's a family thing. Most of the people in Aragorn's family from his mother's side have the gift of Foresight.
Note Elrond has this gift too, and Aragorn's family comes from Elrond's as well, so I gotta think it's somehow liked but just a guess.
This dude earned a sub!! 😂
@athenovae Glad you liked it!!! ＼（〇◡ｏ）／ Thanks for the positive vibes.
Why the goblins, as evil creatures, are afraid of Barlog if he is loyal to evil god Morgoth?
Great Question! Here is my two cents (though others might read it differently):
* The Balrog is def not a team mate with Sauron. They both served Morgoth, but for very different reasons.
* It's not clear that Balrogs ever liked Orcs or Men on others. I think they felt they were above them.
* Balrogs are gods of Consumption and Destruction. Probably would rather watch the whole world burn, Orcs included.
Well, that's my personal thoughts, but not cannon or anything - just how I read it. What do you think?
@@thegreyhavens167 thanks for reply, i am true lotr fan but once again i am so fascinated how complex and confusing, in good way,Tolkein masterpieces are, so much details that decades and decades after we still have discussion about it...
Referring to the Valars as gods is justifiable because of the powers they have, the participation they have in the creation etc. We know they are not true gods, as there is only one god in Tolkien's legendarium. But calling the Mair minor gods is too much of a stretch. If you are going to use the expression minor gods should not be used to describe the Valar?
Jaime, I get where your coming from. Certainly not saying your wrong, but polite challenge to you here:
* my site has both book readers and movie only fans... so I can't just throw out words like Valar and Maiar and Eru and such unless I'm going to spend a lot of time going into them, so gotta keep it in vernacular, easy terms for everyone.
* Tolkien has one "God" in his world, but many "gods", right?
* The Valar are absolutely "gods" just like the greek gods. Manwe is very analogous to the god Zeus, Ulwe to the god Posiden, etc. For a non-reader, describing them the same way we do the greek gods or norse gods makes sense to me.
* In pretty much all polytheistic mythos.... even the "angelic spirits" are still referred to as "gods". Even a simple Hercules or Gilgamesh is still called a demi-god.
While I know Tolkien doesn't use these terms this way, I think 99% of the world does when talking about mythology (which is what this is, right?).
So there you go. Do you think I'm way off? What would you suggest? Really interested in your feedback on what you would suggest is the best way to communicate these things.... thanks again!
So, my question is, why did Legolas knew about the Balrog?
man, calling the ainur gods just feels so weird to me. i know it’s technically true in a way but this is a monotheistic universe and my religious little soul cannot cope
Gothmog wasnt the leader of the Sauron🤔 otherwise actually
But I like this animations!
@oguzhanenescetin5702, thanks for the positive vibes. I appreciate that!
Polite challenge to you though, I always read it that Sauron was under Gothmog for a really long time. I mean Gothmog joined up with Melkor thousands of years before Sauron. He was called the Chief Lieutenant, the High Captain, and was clearly the leader of the army. And Sauron was hardly mentioned at all, and when we was did not seem to be too high at first. He led a small island with a tower, while Gothmog was head of all of Angband!
So in my mind he was the top dog for a really long time, and then later Sauron eventually. But I guess the text never explicitly says anything like that (that I can remember).
What are your thoughts? How do you read it? Would love to know...
@@thegreyhavens167 Sauron was said to be greatest, most powerfull and the most perilous of the enemies servants.
Sauron led Angbands armies while Morgoth was captured
“Among those of his servants that have names the greatest was that spirit whom the Eldar called Sauron, or Gorthaur the Cruel. In his beginning he was of the Maiar of Aulë, and he remained mighty in the lore of that people. In all the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than his master in that for long he served another and not himself. But in after years he rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void.”
“In all the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part ...”
“Melkor had corrupted many spirits -some great, as Sauron, or less so, as Balrogs.”
“Sauron who was thronéd as thane most mighty
neath Morgoth Bauglir; whom that mighty one bade
‘Go ravage the realm of the robber Thingol,
and mar the magic of Melian the Queen.’
“Some say also that secretly Morgoth or his black shadow and spirit in spite of the Valar creeps back over the Walls of the World in the North and East and visits the world, others that this is Sauron his great chief who escaped the Last Battle and dwells still in dark places, and perverts Men to his dreadful worship.”
“Men called him Sauron, and as a god
in after days beneath his rod
bewildered bowed to him, and made
his ghastly temples in the shade.
Not yet by Men enthralled adored,
now was he Morgoth’s mightiest lord,
Master of Wolves, whose shivering howl
for ever echoed in the hills, and foul
enchantments and dark sigaldry
did weave and wield. In glamoury
that necromancer held his hosts
of phantoms and of wandering ghosts,
of misbegotten or spell-wronged
monsters that about him thronged,
working his bidding dark and vile:
the werewolves of the Wizard’s Isle.”
“The pine-forest Morgoth took and turned it to a place of dread as has been told, and the watchtower of Sirion he took and made it into a stronghold of evil and menace. There dwelt Sauron the chief servant of Morgoth, a sorcerer of dreadful power, the lord of wolves.”
“But at length after the fall of Fingolfin, which is told hereafter, Sauron came against Orodreth, the warden of the tower, with a host of Balrogs. Sauron was the chief servant of the evil Vala, whom he had suborned to his service in Valinor from among the people of the Gods.”
Are you maybe confusing Gothmog the orc captain with Gothmog the baller balrog
@@NorBarGaming No I dont. Sauron still ruled over Gothmog
@@oguzhanenescetin5702 oh... well i dont know this exactly, what role did Sauron play in Morgoths army?
i wouldnt call maiar minor gods, more like angels
valar are minor gods, and eru illivatar is god
Yeah - I get it. Just trying to keep it simple, especially for movie-only folks that have never heard of Eru or the Valar or any of that. I think they are most similar in other stories to the Greek "gods", so I went with that.
I dunno... I gotta give this some thought and figure out the best, easiest way to talk about Maiar 🤔🤔 Thanks for the feedback! What do you think?
How does Gandalf come back?
Lurking about??? Is that a GoT reference?
Oh the good days when GoT had the best writing on TV....😢
Wow, that's impressive! I'm shocked anyone noticed. But yeah.... that scene where Tyrion dismisses Janos Slynt is electric ⚡⚡⚡
They were rather angels (not gods) and you forgot that they fell actually
Oh... my bad.... I thought that it was GANDALF who FELL! 🔥🤣🤣🤣🔥🔥
Why did the "gods" sail if they're "gods" , not enough eagles ?
Great question. It's never directly addressed, but here are my thoughts:
* the gods had an entire army of thousands of boats and tens of thousands of troops or possible even more. way too much for the dozens of eagles.
* they also had all the stuff of war to transport. the war took 40 years.
* lastly, it's unclear if eagles can carry gods or not. they dont seem to be as beefy in the books as in the movies to me.
Those are my thoughts. What do you think?
@@thegreyhavens167 I guess what I was getting at is they are GOD's , " think it and they'll be destroyed" kinda thing. Great book series I've read 12 or 13 times watched the movies about the same and just over 25 years ago I names my new born son Stryder I know the spelling is off but it looks better on paper with a y.
👍⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
🙇
You are missing eru. You do realise that?
Yep, I know. Just trying to keep it simple for movie-only folks. My traffic seemed to be about 33% deep book fans and 66% movie fans... so trying to tow that line. I dunno, do you think I should go a level deeper on these?
@@thegreyhavens167 I would say yes, we can get the movie fans to be like us.
🤔 Super interesting.... I'm going to give this some thought. Thanks for the good feedback!
your video are too short duuude
Hahaha
What a strange edit. I'm guessing this is done for a much younger audience than anything I qualify for at 43, so I will not subscribe. Though I left a like at least. I think the Balrog was not evil from the start, but corrupted by Morgoth. The information in this video I thought was quite good, just the editing was not for me.
@Irdanwen, thanks for the comment and the like. I appreciate that!
Yep, my channel isn't for everyone, to be sure. Honestly just making videos on things I love that kinda make me laugh. Your not the first person to think my sense of humor is.... strange 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Have an awesome day!! Thanks again!!