The Tollan: A Stargate Tragedy | Stargate Omnipedia
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- THE TOLLAN: One of the most advanced human civilizations encountered by Stargate Command, the Tollan became an important ally of Earth. With a demeanor that often comes across as cold or arrogant, they held any species with a lesser level of technology to be “inferior.”
While they maintained good relations with Earth, the Tollan refused to share their advanced technologies - until finally they were confronted by a superior foe ...
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I seem to remember the ending as ironic: the Tollan held to their high values until threatened . . . then they built the Goa’uld new weapons. They were so ethical . . . until it became risky.
To be fair, the Tolans never claimed to be ethical. They didn't share technology out of self interest - because the first time they did so they lost their homeworld... Ironically the second time they offered to share technology, they also lost their homeworld... The universe really doesn't want the Tolans sharing technology.
As is the way with most people, IRL.
ethical idiots always perish, be it a civilization, religion, or ideas.
I'd call it friendly relations rather than an alliance. They werent ever looking for mutual cooperation. Just exploiting what they could gain along with outlandish levels of arrogance
Reminds me of USA
I don't think they were really exploiting the Tauri. They just didn't think Earth was ethically ready for their advanced technology. I don't know that they were wrong. Imagine Senator Kinsey with ion cannons.
@@ClickBeetleTV considering their deal with Tanith, they weren't ethically ready either.
@@FirstnameLastname-py3bc lol you are so clueless
The tollen people would be like the USA with 200 cruise missiles systems each on the North, south, east west borders with 500 surface to air missile systems each to defend it and brag and be arrogant thinking were invisible and all it takes is some people to disable the systems and invade lol
To be honest, I consider the Tollan as a pretty smug and arrogant people, which was a key factor that led to their downfall.
I always considered the writers using Anubis to get rid of the Tollan sloppy at best. To quote Ryan George from ScreenRant "script pitch" video series, it was "extremely easily, barely an inconvenience" to write them out of the storyline.
Earth was completely vulnerable after the fall of the Tollan but the writers chose to have Anubis to take his time on attacking Earth instead of making an immediate or simultaneous attack which is how it really would've happened in the real world.
This would've ended the series on a bad note but it clearly shows the writers have no concept of military strategy when writing battle scenes. It's always dumb luck Earth survives because SG-1 pulls the proverbial rabbit out of the hat at the most dire moment and save the the day time after time after time.
Don't misunderstand me, I love SG-1 and consider it my favorite TV show but it isn't without flaws.
@@JohnFourtyTwo I disagree in that Anubis didn't know for sure he could beat the Asgard until Osiris took out Thor's ship at the end of season 5 so he wouldn't have gone after Earth militarily until then. But after, during season 6 yeah.
@@JohnFourtyTwo that's "SUPER easily, barely an inconvenience"
@@JohnFourtyTwo It's got some big flaws but it's also got the built in ex machina of the ascended ancients who very definitely do get involved. Finding Anubis' clone just in time to give them data for their anti-prior device by investigating a possible supergate just screams ascended intervention. Obviously it's just the writers sloppy footprints but by embracing such intervention by "project pegasus" they retconed all the skin-of-their-teeth miracles to likely interventions. Everything from meeting the Asgard to "finding" the android Reese and even Jackson finding the quantum mirror just in time to preempt Apoohis' attack in their world. Then alt-carter helping to figure out how to make Oniell's mark0 naquada generator work.
Remember in pegasus project Morgan Le Fay specifically says she was *told* to follow Merlin. We never find out more but the ascended certainly have a hierarchy and what acts a lot like a CIA/ Section 31 who are a lot less concerned with "interfering" than they are about getting _caught_ interfering. It actually fits since their primary concern isn't really non-interference so much as not being worshipped and becoming like the Ori. This detail even explains why the ascended left the humans in pegasus entirely SOL until the Tauri get there; plausible deniability when anything breaking their way would usually make them literally _praise the ancestors._
It's uneven as all hell but there are some interesting deep twists buried in the plots that never get said out loud.
@@johnassal5838 Agreed, great points.👍
Ah, the Tollan. The culture that pissed away thousands of years of development and progress by allowing their arrogance to blind them. They saw anything related to warfare as barbaric and beneath them. Other cultures may be arrogant, but they still understand how essential it is to be able to efficiently defend yourself. The Tollan thought that their ion cannons were unbeatable because they were so far above everybody else.
The irony in this is that in terms of warfare, the Tollan were laughably primitive. Find a weakness in the ion cannons, and boom, the Tollan get caught with their pants down, utterly defenseless. Hell, the freakin' _Romans_ would have laughed at such a glaring flaw. I imagine that in an alternate setting, with Earth at a roughly similar technological level, the solar system would be filled to the brim with all kinds of diverse defense installations to render any approach by enemy starships and any attempts at invading Earth horribly costly.
Only the Nox could afford being totally pacifist, because they were far, _far_ more advanced than even the Tollan were. And, even they probably understood the value of multi-layered defenses. They just refused to ever take the offense.
Gods, do I hate the Nox when it comes to this.
"Oh you dumb younglings and your warfare, always seeking more guns. Why can't you be smart like us and hide in another dimension?"
I mean... Earth relied pretty much solely on the Ancient weapon in Antarctica and as soon as that was damaged, the Earth was in immediate danger.
In other planets there doesn't seem to be more than a few factions vying for power. Earth seems to be more populated than others (hence, the diversity). Seriously, just look at the stargate in the Aschen episode alternate future apparently used for tourism (Teal'c can come and go) and compare it to foot traffic in Tokyo.
@@Domihork yes but Earth is also divided, the population doesn't know about the stargate and they only recently started developing warships. Plus technologically Earth is way behind.The Tollan were extremely advanced but they designed 1 weapon and never improved it. They were arrogant and because they didn't spend time preparing a worst case scenario or improving their designs they basically did this to themselves. Imagine if Earth never designed the BC304 and just felt ehhh the X303 is enough.
all it took was an ally bringing a contingent of enemies onto your planet directly to sabotage the ion cannons under the pretense of a trial and then yeah, defenseless... Also no way every ion cannon is close enough to the city to allow a single team to paint them all within a short time period.
I would have loved for a rag tag group of Tolen to have shown up in the last 2 season against the Ori or the Nox for that matter. It would be interesting to see how these cultures reacted when a superior threat came
Or even just seeing Tollan turn up as Goauld hosts like Nareem. Maybe they'd have the will and means to ensure a sarcophagus couldn't be used to revive them if killed but even so there must've been live Tollans captured. It's not as if they'd necessarily know anything useful (do you happen to know how to reproduce anything high tech, I don't) but they'd still be good hosts and seeing a Tollan from a previous episode, even just the crooked leaders that surrendered, would've had some impact.
@Karel Šlaj Yeah, any Tollan to survive that without a snake in their head are going to know better than stick around once a Prior shows up. You can't kill or enslave what's already dead (as far as you know.)
In fact it's my pet theory the main Asgard species basically did the same thing but by pretending to wipe themselves out then relocating *very far away* like the old Altairans had. There is the in universe explanation of asended ancients acting secretly on behalf of the Tauri if not straight up using them as pawns that takes ex machina to a new level. The Asgard wouldn't miss any of that in universe and it'd put a new spin on them honoring Oniell and Jackson much less gifting all their knowledge. You can almost cast that as them saying they don't want to get caught in whatever the Ancients are up to but the ancients won't need them if they share all their knowledge with earth.
I mean the pretext given for the Asgard suicide is just lazy. In series we see they can download and transport the minds of many more Asgard than thier ships could carry physically. If Harland can build perfect android replicas to clone the consciousness of each SG1 member then the Asgard could certainly soup them up enough to carry their minds. There's just absolutely no internal consistency to their exit in universe... _Unless_ they're just trying to get out of the way and run like hell so they won't get caught up any more in the games ascended factions play with each other like the Altairans vs Ori.
@Karel Šlaj But that's the thing, hormones if any don't matter downloaded into a computer which we know they could do. All the trouble they had been having much less this sudden acute worsening suggests they were trying to treat a medical condition that was really an attack by the Ori, begun by Anubis before he was dealt with *and/or* a pretext to cover a retreat.
It's entirely possible that the Ori could mess with them to make them double down on stupid choices that would cost them more but even then why would an a worsening _biological_ issue suddenly make it impossible to upload to androids at least until they can come up with a clean slate replacement for their clone bodies.
Out of universe it's mainly just the writers wanted the Asgard out of the way but I like my version better. Besides if the Asgard took serious losses before realizing the latest "software update" or something would say _prevent uploading_ as well as speed up the degradation of their DNA then that's a good time to upload whoever was left and play dead if only due to the *known* enemies who'd definitely try to take advantage of their weakness even if none of them played a part in causing it. A big if.
The fact they give their entire data base to earth seems like a nod and a wink to the idea their relations could only have advanced so much so quickly because the Ancients were anything but not involved.
Another way of justifying the Asgard going into witness protection would be the fact the replicators, their biggest enemy in 10,000 years were apparently created by an android in turn built by the ancients. Then those cute backwards humans go from a primitive curiosity to being their only weapon against those replicators and even wiping them out eventually. Then they just kinda accidentally call down the Ori on the whole galaxy, an enemy as advanced as the ancients. No. I'm guessing that alone is enough reason to think the Asgard would see the ancients were manipulating events and just collectively say "Nope." If so they mostly gave up their knowledge so the Ancients would be willing to let them go their own way since they'd never be able to fool them.
Anyway, just my opinion.
they were dumb
ALL THAT TECHNOLOGY AND THEY DID NOT RULE A GALAXY
YEAH DUMB
Yeah I was sad we never got more of the nox once humanity finally could go into space they were brought in the 5th race thanks to becoming the inheritors of the Asgard technology I also hope not all of the Asgard are gone since humanity inherited all their knowledge did they also receive their consciousness could they bring Thor and the others back if they’ve advanced enough?? Lol so much left untouched
The irony is with Shrodinger.... once Sg1 passed through the ring and went home knowing the Gould were attacking. From the view from Earth, is that at any one time the cat could be dead or alive with no human to witness it. So the cat "lived" up to its name
How would your response have changed if you knew there are those who could, in advance, choose the state in which they would find Schroedinger's cat ? Could you have done so and realized one has no obligation to accept their "religious" causal explanation?
Unless kitty was taken as a host by some system lord with a fun sense of humor.
@Karel Šlaj I thought it was "they considered our understanding of physics in general to be basic" ....**at best**
@Karel Šlaj if I remember correctly, it was actually not so much false as incomplete.
I found this funny
Technically the Goa'Uld weren't a threat to the Tolan. Anubis was uniquely dangerous.
True enough ... though without Teal'c and Lya, Zipacna's mothership could have done some real damage to Tollana in "Pretense."
I think the ascended are even worst, they would have just stand by and let Anubis take over the galaxy if the Tauri never discovered the stargate.
It only takes one.
@@davidjones3165 I was talking from a technological level.
Even if that is true. We have seen other threats in the stargate galaxy. Replicators being the greatest threat. Lets not forget the ship that attacked the Prometheus leaving captain carter concussed and in command hiding in a gas cloud. they appeared hostile. and very capable of destroying advanced asgard shields.
My headcanon is that the Nox helped hide at least some of the Tollans. Explains why they weren't around for the rest of the series - too busy playing dead.
I did find it odd that no Tollan ships could just 'phase out' and allow Anubis' weapons fire to pass through them. Also seems likely that some of them should have fled through the gate. Also, did the council begin their own 'Alpha site' when the Goa-Uld ship proved invincible?
@@dm121984 Might not even need to use ships, they might have phased out parts of the planet since they have/had access to infinite energy.
afaik in the books there were at least a tollan settlment on another planet that survived so they arnt extinct
Most likely with the Asgard archive in their possession the Tauri could probably figure out how to reproduce the Tollan ion cannon. Possibly even simply duplicating them without even figuring out how they worked or even which bits were crucial to being a weapon vs just being difficult to figure out. We see that ships loyal to Anubis were just as safe or nearly so from Asgard ion cannon at about the same time Tollan fell so it's an interesting question as to who had better weapons.
We can probably assume the general level of Asgard tech is way beyond the Tollan, certainly hyperdrives and shields but the Asgard never made it a priority to make their tech indecipherable to anyone at or below their own level like the Tollan who also had phasing tech and gun jamming tech the replicators would certainly have liked to aquire.
That's a point in SGs favor realistically showing that different societies could developed at odd or uneven rates, having surprising strengths or weaknesses and that oddball tech could come out of left field whether that's trinium arrows in an otherwise pre-iron age culture or a WW1 level society creating tritonan.
i do think the asgard cannons were supirior still, plus they had already developed more powerful ones on the new o'neill class. but as it stands currently the asgard plasmabeam weopons are the most potent weopon in the galaxy aside from ancients drones.
the ori beam is also technically more powerful in a single shot, but its also like a pretty huge cannon on even bigger ships.
@@hulmhochberg8129 all tech weapon tech was inferior to the ancients, they to had beam weapons that could teat through fleets of ships..but they decided smart torpedoes were better.
tollan were so isolationist that they had no decent hyperdrive (when they said that there was no chance for one of their ship to reach earth during their lifetim, fuck even goaulds could have reached earth in a matter of months)
and I find this quite ironic xD
It seemed that all the tollans had devices that allowed them to walk through matter, so I suspect a bunch of them survived.
Standard military strategy was to either dial in the gate for reinforcements or blast it inoperable, plus the shot down all leaving ships..if they survived it would be a small enclave and earth should have looked once we had interstellar jump drives but lazy writers didn't do that.
The Tollan were beyond of quantum mechanics, I always remember that with emotion! It highly impacted me even during my engineering degree studies at college!
Makes sense. There’s a lot we still don’t know about the universe. Thinking that quantum mechanics is the ultimate explanation is a little naive given how many times previous ideas turned out to be not entirely correct. It doesn’t mean quantum mechanics doesn’t work, it just means there may be cases where other rules are in play
Absolutely, that's my point too! And it seems I can still hear Narim answering Carter when she gave him Schrödinger 'among another misconceptions of elementary science'. My god, that episode is one of the best of all stargate imho!
@@sebaspignataro yeah, and to be fair, people keep misunderstanding the Schrödinger’s cat example. It wasn’t meant to be an illustration of quantum mechanics but an example of how dumb it was to try to apply those principles to the macro world
yet they were dumber than the ancients, and look how quickly we are understanding their technology..the tolan should have trusted earth.
@caloon5548 Understanding their technology? That's completely missing the point! And thinking like THAT is is the gist of the Tollan and Nox's concerns. Understanding the technology isn't the benchmark. Have you completely forgotten? Remember their neighbour that destroyed themselves? The Tollan had concrete real word experiences for their concerns.
And frankly, I don't know what you mean by Earth how quickly understanding their tech. It was pretty much admitted Earth had no idea how their tech worked on multiple occassions. Has there even been one example in the entire series where Earth was able to even fiddle with Tollan technology?
Allies, they didn't help at all!!! They were more a headache that Stargate command had to deal with.
• While the Tollan and Nox claim to be technologically superior, the "Primitive" Tau'ri had build their own starship in under five years, which they soon upgraded them to travel to other galaxies a few years after that.
• Unlike the Tollan and Nox the "Primitive" Tau'ri have explored the galaxy and made good relations, allies and friends of many races in the galaxy and regardless of technological development aided them in one way or another.
• The race of "Primitive" Tau'ri have also defeated not one but three galactic threats; The Gou'uld, The Replicators and the Ori thus freeing/saving the galaxy all in ten years time.
• What have the "superior" race of Tollan and Nox have been doing in their centuries/millennia ahead of the "Primitive" Tau'ri?
Well the Tau'ri did :
- use other technologie to advance and create their own.
- Had access to ancient technologie in a way. And with tealc arrivait to the team, while not specifically shown there was a transmission of technologie knowledge.
- Tau'ri build relationships with other because they had the need for it. And they were technically often not that far apart from each other perhapsba few century away. While Asgard, Ancient, Nox, etc....been around for more than thousands of years and quite frankly have no need for alliance.
- It is exactly because the tau'ri primitive that they have not protocol when meeting new races and share their technologie but as the show goes on you start seeing that they share less technologie and more support in the form of goods and medicine.
- The Tollan have not ac goulhieved war against the gou uld because they were simply not at war as it says they are peaceful just like nox. The Asgard had their own problems with population and then the replicator in their planet adapt to their technologie. Unlike the Tau'ri they had to oversee protection of several galatic sectors. Deal wtf their own problems, deal with other unknown threat ,gou uld , replicator and internal factions.
- Tau'ri won thanks for imparted technologie from other species. If not for the Asgard they wouldn't even be alive as they could had been orbital strikes away from existence long ago.
- Your analysis is leaving way to many things out and is biased hahahah 😆
You are assuming the Nox is interesting in actually helping anyone. Not out of arrogance, but rather because warfare is such a foreign concept to them at this point.
The Nox deliberately segregated themselves to not impact other societies and cultures, so making good relations, allies, and friends would be directly counter to their philosophy of non-interference.
Beyond that, the Nox likely didn't interfere with the Replicators specifically because others were dealing with them. Notice how The Nox and the Asgard actually know of each other, and were allies in the past, right? So even the Asgard seems to respect The Nox being extremely segregated.
The Ori can be considered a Galactic Threat, sure, and so can the Goa'uld, but in reality, neither of those two actually exterminate life. They change the societies for their own benefit...
And the Ori specifically is shown to create quite nice societies for the people they conquer, so the war against the Ori specifically was far more a war of ideology, rather than a war of extermination.
The Goa'uld is not really much different than many societies we see throughout the show. Powerful people controlling less powerful people, slavery, etc. Yeah, they are cruel about it, but again, it wouldn't exterminate life in the galaxy to let them roam either. It is again a war of ideology.
So of those three you mention, only one of them is technically a "Galactic Threat" outside of ideology. That would be The Replicators. The Replicators though aren't evil (pre-humanform at least)... they aren't malicious... they just perform their one duty they were programmed for.
And in terms of what Tollan and Nox have achieved? The Tollan achieved essentially a utopian society where people lived well. That is literally more than can be said about ANY other of the races portrayed in the show, outside of The Nox and The Asgard.
Just because you are more powerful, doesn't mean you have to interfere.
Because if you start interfering, you start becoming a dictator. YOU decide what is okay and what is not okay to do in the Galaxy.
The Tollan obviously haven't done much exploration, but The Nox and The Asgard have been through lore shown to have explored the universe. They'd obviously have to, to have been part of the Five Races.
You are looking through this from a very simplistic lens of good and evil, not understanding the impact that superior technology can have upon societies.
Even Viking technology, that certainly isn't particularly advanced in comparison to today, screwed up the people of Greenland. The settlers (and prisoners) of Australia screwed over the natives there, and the same thing in the Americas. As well as countless tribes across the world being essentially wiped out because of more modern technology, and actually ending up dying out.
Sometimes it is not your prerogative to decide how others should live, and force your morality on to others.
@@SioxerNikita I am pretty sure that a lot of people who ended up under the thumb of Goa'uld or Ori (as they were not exactly gentle when enforcing their views on how society should be ran) would prefer being exterminated over being experimented on, worked to death in naquadah mines it being remotely piloted by a megalomaniacal snake for generations to come.
You say it's simplistic to view it in terms on good and evil. I say it's really bloody easy to talk about finer points of morality when it's not your people dying for someone's mere whim and your planet living under some would be God's the thumb. And I am glad that SG rarely fi ever portrayed this ivory tower Prime Directive nonsense as anything even approaching a valid arguments. They are some argumetns you can make but this ain't it.
Sure this is some complicated stuff but surely there is some middle ground between smugly looking at countless generation composed of billions of living breathing people who are denied the basic rights and freedom we generally think people should have and just shrugging it off as someone else's problem and effectively conquering whole galaxy by yourself and telling everybody how to live. And if you are afraid of polluting and interfering with less advanced cultures... well that's what snake-eyes are already doing. They are already interfering with other societies and as Quinn proved, they are not too bothered about letting their toys lying around and while primitive in comparison they are more then enough to for primitives to blow themselves up.
And call me simplistic but yeah, opposing slaving despots who are all too happy to expand they slave pools and breeding pits is very, very rarely wrong thing to do.
@@jankostrhun8725 TL;DR, actions have consequences
If anyone were to find any Tollan survivors i'd would advice you to punch them in their superior stomachs and tell them "From the Tau'ri, With Love!"
I wonder how they would revisit their relationship with Earth now, that Earth has Asgard technology and knowledge...
Probably be mad about it and say something like, "You did not develop this technology yourself." or something.
Really enjoyed the video! I would have loved for the Tolan to have been revisted during the series. Maybe finding a settlement on another world where they were hiding from the rest of the galaxy? similar to the Asgard in Pegasus
Actually we know for a fact that they are alive and well. I assume they are pretty helpless and weakened at this point though, but with time it could be assumed their civilization will grow again.
stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Pellor
The RPG that this is drawn from is not canon. That's the case with much of what's on the Fandom wiki, so I recommend avoiding it when you don't want "expanded universe" material.
@@GateWorldDotNet there are novels however that are written as canon materials and were approved by mgm through each step of the process. so one could consider them as faithful expansions of the tv show at worst and canon at the best.
Did Earth never send one of their own ships to check on Tollana after they finally built some?
Not in the show, but I can't imagine they hadn't done so by the time Universe started. It just isn't ever mentioned.
You think?
I don't know... It's certainly possible.
But I think it was quite clear that the Tollan were completely annihilated.
@@DJJonPattrsn22 I doubt they were completely wiped out. I could see a ship or two escaping to be captured by Anubis and forced to try to teach their technogy to his scientists. Maybe kept controlled by their own Symbiotes.
What for, it's not like they were friendly to SG command, it would be a huge waste of resources to go look for survivors after the first encounter with them and since they don't share information or technology it's not worth the trip.
@@jason4275 You realize their relationship had improved with each encounter with them right? Helping recover stolen technology greatly improved relations with them. Sure, they still wouldn’t give technology to anyone less advanced than them(until Anubis forced their hands) but they were still good allies. As O’Neill said, “we need them, not their technology”. This became even more true when Earth started making their own ships. They became advanced enough to be recognized by other advanced races, and even overpower other interstellar races(such as the Wraith) and fight relatively evenly with an enemy that the Tollan themselves were helpless against, Anubis, and then defeated him. That could’ve improved the Tollans view of Earth to the point of sharing their technology, such as their phasing technology. So searching for them would’ve been worth a short trip to their planet.
I love the talked about idea that Noreem survived the attack and later went dark side. That should definitely be a part of any new stargate story lines...
I suppose a number survived, but these survivors decided to live in hiding, much like the Nox.
Tollana would have been on my short list of planets to visit after we had ships. Pity that never happened.
Agreed! It might have been fruitful to at least pick through the smoldering ruins to see if any technology survived that Earth could exploit.
@@GateWorldDotNet lol.. or survivors
Knowing the Tolans they would probably insult the Tauri for visiting them.
@@jason4275 we beam down from our very own ship with food and medical assistance while STILL rebuilding their world.... still calls us children
@@CmdrTom would be easier to pick up an unused stargate and dhd and then had those on earth assist with supplys and medicine rather than take a limited amount on a ship.
Considering that phase technology was heavily featured with the Tollans... I would imagine that most of the Tollans survived and probably went into hiding below the surface. We know from the show that Goa'uld don't share technology and they'd most likely still be superior to any one outside of Anubis' sect.
Aaahhh yes. When a society swings too far towards order they calcify and can't adapt quickly enough to new challenges. A mythic tale with great wisdom.
It’s kinda dumb that they developed these phase-shifting bombs but didn’t think to use them against Tanith. Then again, some fan materials suggest that their ion cannons also used phase shifting to get past shields, so if that no longer worked, then the bombs would fail too
I think it's risky to try and deploy a new and untested weapon against an enemy currently holding a gun to your head.
@@GateWorldDotNet An enemy which they had no reason to think wouldn't just go ahead and wipe them out anyways afterward.
Their annihilation was not a tragedy, it was cathartic.
^ Psychopath.
Spiritually speaking they needed that kind of cold shower :)) they can reencarnate into other civilizations.. To learn and earn empathy and real love or maube to help to spreaded or to add to it... Not all Tollans were the same.. Or agreed on the norm But obviously there was a dominant culture or mentality that ruled their behaviour, their civilization.
Curiosly, my comment could seem a bit lacking og empathy... But I try to see what it is as it is.. Of course, I would prefer that the Tollans didnt end up like that.. And maybe learn in another ways.. But at the same time perfectly understanding that they became so rigid and stagnant in their attitudes and ways that this same provoked and provided that "result"... They never took an objective look onto themselves.. They accomodated into a tech and physical status.. And refuse to really "evolve".. They werent honest with themselves.. They wete too much protective or in a defensive pattetn, but in a bad and detrimental way to themselves.. They lived in separation instead og in interconnectedness... Their exticntion was not an accident.. It was as Spock 🖖 would say "logic". Sorry, but that was proved to be so. But conciousness cannot really be destroyed....you see? 😉 ✨
I like a lot the Nox.. I think they are "really" advance.. And they don t have that Tollan arrogance and sense of convinience.. And they were wiser and more clever as they really knew how to prevent certainwarlike things and beings... ✨
Ah yes the tolan the most useless ally Earth ever had
In the video, he stated the planet whose inhabitants that destroyed themselves with Tollan tech, Sirita, did so eventually. That is a massive time overstatement. They destroyed themselves in one day.
I think what he meant is that over time, the Tollans gave the Saritans more and more advanced tech until one day when they gave them the advanced power source that wiped them out.
Any word on Schrodinger? Surely Felines (Furlings) are a far more advanced civilization and could have rescued him when Tolan fell
The Ferlines gave up their technology to build a utopia without it. They too were wiped out long before this happened
@@rachelheav857 Lol, no. That Utopia place was 1. not restricted to furlings, it was just made by them. 2. : Nowhere it is mentioned that they did so. I am sure that was their way of ascension, I am sure not all of them went that way. It might have been some retirement place for whoever wants to go there.
a new series of stargate can dive deeper into the Tolan civilization especially since the Tau'ri is now a galactic superpower
They fell victim to their arrogance, they believed the Goa'uld could and would never be a threat to them. They didn't think stradegically.
Yup, almost got killed the first time through tactics. Second time killed them with tech.
I, too, hate spell checking.
They put too much dependance on one defense system. Had they actually made some effort in building a layered defense, they might have been able to survive.
It would have helped to spread out to other worlds.
They made themselves an easy target
I love all the omnipedia videos! It helps when my friends and I are remembering aspects of the series
Thanks for watching, Mackenzie! We have some fun ones on the drawing board for upcoming Wednesdays.
Now Carter's cat rules whats left of Tollana with an iron paw.
The Tollan had ships and though the evacuation ones were being shot down, there's every chance some of them fled to Hebrodan and the Nox which Anubis hadn't even touched.
I would love to rub Atlantis and the legacy of the Asgards on their arrogant faces.
Would they ask us for help now that we are technologically superior?
I think many survived, and went to a mode of extreme isolationism.
I mean it's likely they were a multi planet spanning civilization. So likely they had other planets same way earth has different sites for just this scenario
@@ezralabandeira3552 Same thing I would assume.
Kicked it in with Nox.
@@noiteetion9372 I wish _I_ could kick with the Nox...or gnomes.
The fall of the Tollen was tragic and avoidable; but…the Tollen really bugged me. 🤷♂️😂
They deserved their fate after selling out Earth, the people who saved their asses more than once.
The Tollan showed the dangers of hubris for hubris leads to overconfidence, overconfidence leads to complacency and complacency leads to defeat.
Thanks for doing these omnipedia videos.. I love them.. 👍❤️👍
Thanks, Matthew! We have a fun line-up for every Wednesday. I'm working on May's videos now.
They lived in peace so long with no really war strategies or friends that when did finally got a real threat they could not longer protect themselves and think creatively on how to get out of the situation not to mention they had no really friends or allies to call on for help. And because of it this is why they fell. Nareem himself said that they had hardly any crime and once they did were so in sequential that it didn't really matter. Even when they were trying to figure all this out while I was happening nareem was basically useless because he couldn't even think of of do fight or do anything. This showed how far their society really was behind on how to think and fight when there weapons failed them.
When the Tollan were defeated, the first Era of SG1 was firmly over.
I thought the first Era was over when replicators were introduced.
As all storys with lessons to learn from, it is mostly about something terrible. Which is a good thing, since you want to brace yourself (as a species) against these tragedies.
Hated the Tollan and their arrogance. I remember the episode Jack stole some technology from them and kinda wished it wasn’t all pretend.
The Tollan make me wonder what would happen had the Nox had to face Anubis. Would they also succumb to their own arrogance around not fighting?
Great stuff. Excellent grammar. Thank you.
I still watch that last episode hoping some of them survived...😢
Tolans reminded me pirates: take what you can - give nothing back
I always thought it would be cool to meet an advanced society like the Tollans, but instead of asking for technology I'd want to study their culture, political and social structures, and the history of their struggles and how they overcame them.
So earth reverse engineers high technology from the asgard, ancient tech and even started to understand wraith tech...but the tolan who were not even in the same league as the ancients was made out to be more advanced, the inconsistencies of stargate writing pissed me off.
You aren't wrong about there being inconsistent writing but this is not an example of it. Yes the Tollan were overconfident of their technologies and became complacent losing interest, even the capacity to think tactically but they actually had tech the Asgard didn't and we don't know the Ancients ever had. Their phasing tech is even similar to if distinctly different even from Merlin's. That has to say something.
They failed to heed the events in Pretense and completely neglected the opportunity to learn from the Tauri where even the Asgard admitted they themselves simply couldn't think that way anymore and asked for human advisors. This effectively did them in though It still took the unforseen case of a mad half-ascended abomination like Anubis to wipe them out.
I think there is idea about tech path not tech level. Human were also unable to reverse engineer, wriath tech couse it had unique Biotech path and were also high level just different. Human technolocial evolution is more similar to ancients and Asgards couse both have culturally influenced humans.
Well for one the other tech can be accessed by SGCs own technology, which helps quite a lot compared to pretty much straight up guessing how the Tolans make theirs. Secondly it's not strange for a culture to develop their own unique technology based on their resources and needs. The Asgard and the Ancients probably didn't need phasing because they could beam or transport themselves anywhere way faster. Same with their jamming technology, the Ancients and the Asgard went with shields, something the Tolans never seem to use, instead they jam weapons completely. This make the Tolans unrivalled when it comes to these areas of technology and they played to their strengths as much as they could. And the Asgard shared their (some) tech willingly, which would mean they'd help out with how to construct it. The Ancients are gone but left their data-banks and a lot of Goa'uld tech is based off it so there's a much more primitive version that can be accessed easily.
The Tolans tech seems quite unique, were never shared and only very few scraps were ever stolen from them.
The Tollan weren't completely eradicated, one of the spin-offs or something talks about a tollan colony that survived.
I think they've popped up in a novel or elsewhere, but in the Stargate universe these are not canon stories.
Their real flaw was that they confused technology with strategy. Their technology was so advanced they forgot to similarly advance their strategic thinking in how to use it, even defensively. It's a pretty common mistake on Earth.
More than likey they did survive. Some probably left when they saw what was happening and maybe some even went to the Nox. I don't recall seeing all the ones that left to the Nox come back. More than likely that is what happened. The Nox would take them in again and probably let some just stay with them before this happened.
In Stargate uplifting inferior societies appears to lead to tragedy in one form or another.
Great episode from a fantastic series.
In many ways Earth became the successors of the Tolan as the technological superpower in the galaxy, minus the Nox of course.
pisses me off why earth didn't beam down later and said hi, we are now the legacy of the asgard and the ancients..please work with us.
@@jamiemcaloon5548 once you've got equal technology, the only reason to really talk to the Tollan survivors is to gloat. They're totally worthless as allies. I mean they were openly hostile from the moment they were discovered and sold Earth out to Anubis at the drop of a hat.
@@chrisdelzell8467 Gloating is sometimes an eye opener, especially if your civilisation is arrogant..plus they could have needed our aid, show them what being the good guys looks like lol.
The Tollan didn't think Earth was inferior. They thought we where childish because when we brought them to our world we where distrustful.
No they thought Earth was inferior.
If the tollan would have worked with sg1 on technology and other things they would have been able to smack down the Gould and the Ori. And the tollan wouldn't have been taken by Anubis.
I never understood why the SGC never sent a ship to the Tolen homeworld to check for survivors and if no one is left alive, scavenge for technology. If the world isn't radioactive or toxic, they could drop off a stargate since it's more or less off the known network.
I find it interesting that even when Anubis got his hands on ancient technology he didn't feel quite confident enough yet to take on the Asgard showing that he still considered them a threat, although not for long
Arrogance is the wrong term to use regarding the Tolen. The correct meaning of "arrogance" is one's ability to engage in wrong doing publicly without consequence.
I'm pretty sure both meanings apply to them.
Tollan were way to advanced, a lot further than the time earth wallowed in the dark ages. I wonder if the Tollan got their hands on some ancient tech, maybe even a well of knowledge to give them a boost.
Sounds fair, when a society doesn’t develop both technologically and culturally it’s akin to giving a caveman a fully automatic rifle and plenty of ammunition, sometimes help can be misused as war, when you give a lower race advanced technology and lack the social discipline and restraints will unfortunately cause more damages that a solution.
Of course anyone who watched the show knows the Tollan were the cavemen in this analogy, as the Asgard eventually figured after a lengthy 'feeling out' period.
For a really smart people, they were incredibly stupid. They placed their entire defensive strategy on a single weapon system.
Such is the arrogance of the unbeaten.
It's like Teal'c said they didn't think strategically.
Overconfident thy name is Tollan.
I know others are saying this below, but it'd be cool if the Tollans did survive. imagine meeting up with some survivors who are more flexible with sharing technology. They're desperate and open to new ideas, and want to set up a new colony.
I love how they almost got wiped out. And in the end earth became the most advanced in the galaxy. 🤣
You make it sound like making a star gate is complex - it’s just we don’t know how - but one was constructed in Sam’s basement from equipment from [brand name -forgotten- redacted]
I dont get why they were so stingy with giving earth defensive weapons. We're ALREADY a few button presses away from destroying ourselves, adding a few planetary defense turrets wouldn't have made that threat any worse.
SGC still had the old Tollan gate address. I would send expeditions to scavage their tech.
That entire planet was on the verge of being covered with lava.
And they actually did try to go there but up connection could be made; the most likely conclusion is that the gate was destroyed. Going there by ship to scavenge for tech that wasn't destroyed seems rather pointless once they had all the knowledge of the Asgard...
Imagine there reaction now that earth has technology beyond them
Can't understand such an advanced civilization hasn't figured out that we all came from humble origins and no need to look down upon anybody, one more friend is better than a foe.
if another civilizations misused their tech and modified their orbit why couldn't the Tollans correct the orbit of their planet lol. My favorite episode is without a doubt Enigma. I really liked them and I would have used them better if I wrote the show. The writers were very careful when adding advanced civilizations of humans and even went as far as eliminate them from the plot. The Ashen were another example. God they were so damn interesting and we saw very little of them.
For me the most interesting episodes of Stargate were those with civilizations of humans that differed from the main plot, I ached for knowing the inner workings of that human civilization that was in cryogenic sleep that put people inside of Daniel. or that other human civilization with small weapons (museum episode), instead we got like 5 episodes of freaking Chaka the lizard dude.
I truly love Stargate as a whole but with every rewatch I find myself watching episodes more about people than episodes about the Goaul'd or the ori or the replicator. I am very drawn to human interactions in other civilizations and the more advanced ones are even better. Too bad we got very little of those. imo the next Stargate tv show should not be the Tauri but another civilization a bit more advanced than humans or even a less advanced a civilization similar to the Geni. That would be so kick ass and it would totally justify having a different cast. Heck, you could set it in the Andromeda Galaxy and then introduce earth in season 2 or three.
It threw them out of orbit by BLOWING ITSELF UP. Getting back into orbit without it simply going too far would be almost impossible, not to mention how dangerous something with that power output would be.
Tollan, but no Central-America looking persons. Orban too. I get that it's SW Canada, but as a latino I always kind of hoped for it you know?
I agree, they did a great job casting with the Mongolian and Native American episodes but I was disappointed the Mayan inspired civilizations were filled with people that don’t look Mayan at all. If they do a fourth series I hope that’s something they can do right.
3:44 well they never fell victim to the goa'uld, they fell victim to an ascended being.
Unfortunately for them that made no difference to the result.
In the XSGCOM fanfic, the Tau’ri help the Tollan develop a better fleet, giving them Goa’uld hyperdrives since their own are so slow. Their ships can go out of phase at any moment, which means it’s virtually impossible to harm them. Meanwhile, their own ion cannons and bombs have no problems passing through enemy shields. This is how the Tollan are able to survive, by going on the offensive.
They also ally with the Optricians and help them defeat the Goa’uld-worshiping Bedrosians. They even ally with the Aschen, even though they don’t actually trust them. The only reason the Aschen don’t mess with the others is because they receive a message from the future that tells them not to fuck with XCOM (in that future, they tried sending a virus to Earth and got a BC-306 in orbit for their trouble that was in the process of leveling their cities)
Yeah the Ashen method of conquest was by deceit, so I guess they never considered what would happen if a planet was sufficiently advanced enough to prevent their bioweapons from working
Out of curiosity but would a staff rifle be an interesting concept where it’s a bulpup rifle with a small magazine for the naquada and a four pronged barrel much like the head of a staff weapon, so essentially you are combining the fire power of a staff weapon into a light compact weapon as well as being able to be used in a vacuum or non earth like environments where bullets won’t work
bullets work in vacuum though they have their own oxidisers.
@@cactusman1771 but that doesn’t include recoil plus over penetration
@@hadesdogs4366you got me on recoil. Overpenetration just use hollow point rounds then your good.
@@cactusman1771 true however even hollow points can still penetrate amor to a lesser extent plus using energy based weapons has a lower drain on resources since a staff weapon uses a form of naquda which would take up less space than a standard thirty round magazine, plus reliability is an issue. Also whilst hollow points can be used there is the whole civility and humanity aspect of the weapons since they are banned, and would be akin to using a flamethrower or even nerve agent like agent orange or white phosphorus, another problem is the lack of penetration such as when dealing with more armored targets such as a wraith which requires a fifth of a P90 magazine in the head or half in the chest, and unless they switch to a 308 bulpup rifle then that shouldn’t be a problem, but another problem would be atmosphere or sometime the lack of an. Atmosphere which may lead to failure to ignite the powder, a study was done by nasa to test the viability of guns in space and unfortunately, those fired in direct sunlight tend to overheat or simply melt due to the lack of coolant, guns frozen in the shadow tend to quickly freeze and again recoil will cause the gun to fire more uncontrollably even on earth and would be akin to shooting whilst on a trampoline.
@@hadesdogs4366 The Staff based weaponry is technically inferior to projectile based weaponry. It is shown time and again that the projectiles are rather slow, and actually dodgeable at a distance, which would relegate such a weaponry down to essentially an effective close range combat weapon.
Here you already have projectile based weapons that are better, specifically... the P90... It is incredibly compact, incredibly useful in close quarter combat, and has an effective range up to 200 meters.
So making an energy based weapon based on the Staff Weapon would be redundant when you have the resources to produce more effective weaponry, with the only disadvantage comparably being ammunition.
Also, flamethrowers aren't banned in warfare. White Phosphorus is, but White Phosphorus was used even after that by the US and only really came into disuse when they found out it was less effective than alternatives. Agent Orange is also not banned in warfare, also not a nerve agent. It was intended to remove foliage an area. It was certainly toxic and lead to cancer and other stuff. It was banned for use by the US... with the US being the only users of it...
And you say "The lack of penetration"? The Staff Weapon has shown time and time again to be less penetrating than a P90. Also Wraith aren't really armored. They just have a very hardy physiology and great regenerative power so they can essentially survive a ridiculous amount of damage to their body compared to a human. Switching to a larger round with more stopping power would certainly be a solution to dealing with the Wraith with less ammo used, sure... but considering their regenerative abilities and how people have been shown to survive even direct staff impacts, the Wraith would likely shrug them off easier than they would bullets, because staff weapons mostly do damage on the outer layers, and tend to kill due to shock and bleeding. Issues the Wraith don't really have due to their regenerative abilities.
Also a 308 is a 7.82, while the P90 is a 5.7. Yeah, there is a significant difference in size, but the issues of 308 is portability. The ammunition is significantly heavier, the bullet is far bigger, so magazines would contain less rounds, and you would generally be able to carry less ammunition with you.
This is not particularly valuable as expeditionary forces.
Also, failure to ignite the powder due to lack of an atmosphere? You even know how this ammunition works?
Yeah, overheating is certainly an issue... and would also be an issue for an energy based weapon... because they would also get hot... Just because you shoot something that isn't a bullet, doesn't mean thermal energy suddenly stops existing...
Also, no... guns in the shadow don't tend to "quickly freeze", you have any idea of how heat dissipation work? The exact same reason why the guns would overheat is lack of thermal dissipation, and that would also mean being in the shadow would also be slow to cool... because of lack of thermal dissipation...
And recoil in space? That CERTAINLY depends on what weapon we are talking about. Most guns do not have enough recoil to move you any significant amount, so a proper pose even in Zero G would eliminate most of your issues.
You talk about a lot of stuff here you have absolutely no idea about.
I hope you have learned some things in the year since this comment, because you speak with such confidence with half the information you post being straight up wrong. The other half seemingly misconceptions about what the purpose of things are.
can you create a video about the Aschen and the Genii too? :3
They are definitely on the list! I'll bump them up if you are interested. :)
I can understand their reasoning behind not sharing tech but they didn't need to be so much of a Ahole about it.
Actually Narim’s last transmission indicated that the Tollan people managed to get some of their people out before the Goa’uld destroyed the Stargate. And I think one of the later media mentioned a new colony for them.
Narim radioed that they were trying to flee but their ships were being shot down. But there's definitely a BIG open plot thread should future writers want to reintroduce the Tollan. It kind of fits that a small colony of survivors would have stayed completely off the grid, and even become xenophobes.
@@GateWorldDotNet I just rewatched and we’re both right. They got some people away before the Stargate was destroyed. They tried to fly more people out, but the Goa’uld were shooting them down.
Think while most fans agree they weren't the most deserving of what happened to them, they certainly weren't the least deserving either given their continued arrogant attitude that in the end lead to their own downfall. I highly doubt they were well-liked by the other four big races back in the ancients time either.
It's kind of sad how underutilized the other races of the Milky Way were. Just not enough content with them. I get they had to maintain an episodic format because of the time Stargate SG-1 was made. But still. So much more story here than what we got. And I reckon what we got was sufficient, and was good. But still.
The problem with the Tolans was they were too arrogant to ask for help.
The Asgard were not that arrogant
Nareem managed to warn SG1 of his suspicions. Hell the Tollans could have taken a risk and rig those bombs to explode on Tanniths ship upon delivery. It would have given them time to work on a delivery platform for those weapons when Anubis came back.
Unlike the Asgards, the Tollans probably never encountered much conflict or enemies that they couldn't handle and also not to mention that they were the most advanced race seemingly even more so than the Asgards as such like it was explained in the show, they didn't have the most strategic way of thinking plus they have very little interaction with less advanced races to know what they could offer them. They probably viewed the earthlings like an adult views a toddler. Would you ask a toddler to help you on how to get rid of a bear at your doorstep?
@@lylelaney8270 more advance than the Asgard? The Asgard were millions of years old. They were not as advance as the Ancients but enough for the Ancients to respect them.
The tolans were only a few hundred years more advance than Earth. The Asgard are millions of years more advance.
The Tolans know about conflict they know about the Goauld. They just chose to turn their eyes from the danger.
They dont know what humans from Earth can offer them. Earth has held its own and killed system lords at this point with primitive tech.
It would be stupid to ask Earth how to improve their ion cannons but in fighting the Goauld Earth has experts.
And they would have lost to Zipacna and Klorel in the Triod. They didnt even need advance tech to do it and they, the Tolans, still didnt learn.
@@jonreese7066 Like I said, would you ask a toddler on how to get rid of bear at your doorstep? The simple answer is no. The reason I said the tollans were more advanced technogically was Sam could actually learn and even fix Asgard tech but she also said they couldn't possibly reverse engineer tollan tech even if they could get their hands on them. Being older in stargate universe doesn't guarantee being more advanced. Being advanced technologically also doesn't mean having the most knowledge either. That's just my opinion at least for now. Might change in the future as amazon is rumoured to might have restarted or rebooted the series.
@@lylelaney8270
The Asgard asked SGC for help in small victories.
Your comment is too general. Just because the Tolans were better at tech doesnt mean earth cant do anything. Earth has more experience fighting the Goauld.
The Tolans could have beaten Tanith:
1.deliver the bombs armed set to blow up upon arrival in Taniths mothership.
2. Fly a shuttle with phase shift to Taniths mothership and blow it.
your right older does not mean better but your example is faulty.
Sam learned to fix Asgard tech because the Asgard gave her lessons. The tolans kept the tech for themselves.
The Asgard are more advance why:
1. Asgard have intergalactic hyperdrive ships. Omak couldnt call the new Tolan homeworld for a ship to pick them up from Earth because they didnt have ships back in the first encounter. S1 or 2
2. The Belisner was an old outdated ship and it still took two of Anubis ships to destroy it. Season 5
3. The Prometheus was modified with an Asgard shields and Anubis mothership rained fire on it and still couldnt destroy it. Season 7. If the Tolans could create shields with that level of power they wouldnt have needed to bend the knee to Tanith.
4. The modified Odyssey could bring down Ori motherships. Something a fleet of Goauld vessels couldnt do.
5. Asgard can modify their transport beam to remove a symbiote. The Tolans had to call the Tokra
@@jonreese7066 I mean mostly just plot armour.
I thought their downfall was a little too quick and they clearly had connections with advanced races like the nox. Its hard to believe they would have been wiped out.
they had potential to become something big in a show, they were almost like ancients before ascending, although more isolated
Not really i mean they are probably still ahead of earths technology level by the end of series minus the stuff the asguard gave us. They are a far cry from the ancients.
@@Darkfrost7456 I didn`t mean technologies only, they definitely didn`t have a scope of Lanteans, still they probably would fit the Destiny era (when Ancients built it), or maybe not, not enough info
@@spaceexpireaudio666 i dont think so not even the asgard were as far and the tollans are far behind them.
One thing that never came up again was their phasing technology, did the Goa'uld acquire it?
They were too arrogant to realize what their weakness was. Who would only depend on ion canons for planetairy defense. If i were them....starships, satellites platforms and other structures wouldve been the main systematic defenses
In the... idk... expanded stargate universe(?) it is revealed the Tollan race did survive the attack. After the contact was lost, their ships were sent from their off world colony, only to find the planet in revaged and under goa'uld control. Still there were Tollan survivors who formed an armed resistanec against the invaders.
I would LOVE to see a story like this for the Tollan. Unfortunately the novels, comics, and RPGs are not canon.
The Tollan were incredibly naive and hypocritical in their thinking.
Yes, they were quite advanced, but considering how the Tauri kept finding ways to make huge leaps in knowledge and technological capability, to presume the Gou’ld wouldn’t is just arrogance.
They also presumed that if the Tauri got their technology, they’d immediately blow themselves up with it, but due to the fact they didn’t really deal with mass wars, they lacked the knowledge of how wars happen. Two opposing sides WILL come together if faced with a much greater foe. Earth was facing SIGNIFICANTLY worse foes out in space that they didn’t even have proper time to even think of turning the weapons upon themselves.
What’s even worse is that they flat out went against what they preached as soon as serious danger came to them. They made weapons for the Gou’ld as soon as they saw the gun in their face.
A society that can’t recognize a good ally won’t recognize a terrible enemy.
So true.. Because it s all a reflection.. The Tollans were not so ethical after all...
so apperently the tollan had a colony
They did and it was also never stated whether or not that nobody survived Tollana. It was just an assumption because they couldn't reach it via stargate if I'm not mistaken. Also the writer just need to get rid of Tollans so the Ori could come unopposed.
Lessons from the Tolan: when humankind becomes enlightened, we will know this because we will decide to all wear the same color, always.
I have been to Tollana. It’s in Vancouver.
Its funny that they died in the exact same way as the ancients. So high up and above everything and ignoring building dangers of the lesser and the many.
Who would have thought that a University campus in Brasil is a home to such an advanced society?
The Prime Directive sucks.
This was they punishment from the start but do they ever learn they own lesson
Actually, according to the Stargate board game, a group survived on a colony. Not many but a few.
Interesting! Certainly not canon, but interesting. I always thought the writers had one more good Tollan story in them, but unfortunately it never materialized. It would have been interesting to find a surviving colony of refugees (led by Narim, of course) that desperately needed Earth to share their technology to help the Tollan get back on their feet after Anubis was defeated.
Wait … was JigSaw the leader of the Tolan?? Was this all just one big game that they failed?
I forgot Jigsaw played a Tollan
lets be honest here, the go’auld were no threat to the Tollan. Their tech was unlikely to ever get better than the Tollans without a outside factor being introduced,
They could not of anticipated that oma de sala would help a goaul pd ascend after being tricked by it and that goauld while not truly ascended would have the knowledge of ancients weapon tech. tHAt right there is the only reason the Tollan were defeated.
Well he couldn't use any of the ascended knowledge unless he could obtain it as a Goauld, but I dare say he would have used his knowledge to accelerate what he could have learned over a lifetime.
@@avaren7660 Either way, they couldnt plan for a half ascended Anubis.
They could have still been screwed over by a half dozen different enemies over the years. Their single biggest mistake was that they were so sure that they were superior to everyone else that they never even bothered to keep an eye on what everyone else were doing. Imagine if the Ori had found Tollan, or post-Asgard tech transfer Tauri had started a war with them. Or if the Wraith had found a way to get to the Milky Way.
IIRC Anubis wanted to use Tollan tech to send a bomb through the Earth gate, phasing it through SGC’s protective shield. Why not just do that to Anubis? It never made sense.