Watcher is too easy! | How to win at Slay the Spire | A0 Ladder runs
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
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This series has already helped a lot by improving the way I approach the game. I think before I would look at cards offered and see possibilities or opportunities based on maybe receiving 5 other cards and relics that would make that one card good. Now I understand that I need to focus on the present and decide what each card does for the deck I already have rather than the deck I wish I had. So for me, just witnessing the thought process of "My deck is good at this, therefore this card helps or doesn't" is valuable, even if it isn't part of some larger themed discussion within the video. It's the collection of examples of what solid decision-making looks like that makes watching something like this worthwhile.
Glad we got music this time, though.
I think a big part of someone growing as a player at anything is doing their own research. I learnt this game by watching runs by you and other players doing your streamed runs, and those runs weren't dedicated to teaching. I feel like I learnt better by just seeing what was being done and which cards were chosen and figuring out for myself why those decisions were made.
I don't think a big write up in the description is necessary. You could perhaps just add some notes if you feel like you missed out on saying something important for that run in particular, but you have at least 100 more runs in this series still to come and so you can just address any of the questions people have or things you felt you missed out in future runs. Future runs will also get harder and as a result the more nuanced decision points that actually matter will start to show up. At this point a new player doesn't need nuance, they just need to be told why you are making decisions that would look strange to someone new which you have done just fine already.
I've watched every episode and so far past me from all those years ago would have been extremely happy with something like this. So far I would have learnt about:
- Deck consistency via aiming to fill gaps in it's strengths.
- Card removes good, essentially buying better draws for the rest of the run.
- Curses rarely worth it (probably avoid them for now, I can slowly understand when to take them, like run where you took 999 gold and removed them both immediately).
- Fight and event pools change throughout an act (something I would have been curious about and researched myself).
- Preparing relics during fights.
- Start deck strength differences (don't go into a run with the same act 1 plan for each character).
- Check the deck frequently to make future draws less of a surprise.
And a few other things, but these things alone would have helped me smash the early ascension levels much easier. I don't think there should be a rush to teach more. There will be a lot of players watching that are A10+ at the moment and will be asking for information that someone at A2 doesn't need. If someone asks you in the comments it's worth answering, but I don't think you should worry about pre-emptively answering every question someone might have, not this early at least. I think you have provided more than enough for a new player to work with.
appreciate the feedback! i think there are easily 100 runs worth of things to talk about in the game, and the run itself is enough to talk about most of the time without even needing supplementary topics, but i am still curious if people have particular ideas or if some are more pressing than others (as realistically i may not finish the series, or a viewer may not finish watching the series).
@@Jorbs That is true. I think the way you are approaching it is fine. I do think that it is important to take the series all the way to A20, even if it means speeding through early levels offline and covering ascension levels in groups, such as skipping to A4 after A1 since A2, A3 and A4 all make encounters harder and will require similar adjustments to approaching each act. This hurts the purity of the series but it's an option I would personally consider if I was doing it.
As a beginner I was able to get to A15 with only minor issues after watching others play, but then I struggled a lot. One thing I know now after playing a lot more is that I kinda ignored the impact of the A10-A16 modifiers since the impact they have on a run is big but much less obvious, like the runs feel the same but suddenly you're losing a lot more. If you feel like you have enough information in the early episodes and are worried about not finishing or viewers not watching far then I think covering the A10-A16 modifiers and how the affect runs would be a huge help for a lot of players.
That's probably the best input I can provide at the moment. I'm enjoying the series though, it's fun to see how decisions change at low ascension levels and will be cool to see which decisions you put more emphasis on moving forward.
"I'm going to hold on to this Ancient potion for the Heart"
(2 seconds later)
"Here Ranwid, have my Ancient Potion"
I mean, it's correct, but it's also funny.
Honestly these episodes have been so chill I really enjoy these videos. Thanks Jorbs
I can't think of any ideas for discussion topics from this video, but watcher beta art unlocked, so my comment for the algorithm will just be that the sash whip beta art is increadible. Watcher is just so happy to be whipping silent. Strangely wholesome.
scrawl beta art is a masterpiece also
Small note for 29:00 - playing self-damage cards like Offering doesn't actually lose you the perfect bonus against bosses or elites. This also applies to Pain and Regret. The only cards that can lose you the bonus are the ones that deal damage that can be blocked, ie. Decay and Burn.
Really?! That’s interesting!
The game is nice with that
It doesn't lock you out from them
I first discovered sts watching Rhapsody, so... thin deck daddy was hardly imprinted in my game style...
Than jorbs thought me that having a lot of cards in your deck doesn't necessarily mean you can't cycle them very fast and having few cards isn't always a plus
Today I learned that watcher just doesn't care about any rules. Watcher just wins
I remember Jorbs' first heart run on the beta patch. He killed that heart with an infinite too. Though the heart didn't have invincible at that time, so Jorbs killed it on the first turn before it did anything.
Was it an infinite or just dead branch corruption?
@@Ddiaboloer it was a somewhat lucky roll of ironclad dead branch/corruption random bullshit go
Okay A0 videos done. Please keep making this series. I see some A1 videos for me to enjoy after I put a few hours into playing. Appreciate you and your content.
On the topic of just basic information accessibility, it's pretty easy to keep up with what the cards do by pausing on the card selection screen. What I struggle with is sometimes you'll grab relics so fast I can't read the description and I don't know what it does.
GGs!! 🎉
You were wondering about how much you should take time to explain what all the cards and relics do, but I think you’re hitting it spot on. I’ve put a few hundred hours into the game, somewhere between A10 and A19 with all characters, and I’m learning a ton from these videos. I reckon most players who would watch a “how to win at slay the spire” video would have about 50-100 hours and know most of the cards and relics pretty well.
I come from tabletop ccgs. I've got 2 weeks in and relying on my understanding of card mechanics. Luckily tho a basic explanation doesn't take long as relics are not that complicated.
Love this game and community seems legit as well
I think going for achievements during these runs is a bad idea. If the goal is to teach a new player how to win going for a special run is a bad way to do it. However, winning with basically the starter deck for most of the run was VERY eye opening to me and I'm sure others feel the same way. I really hope you keep this series up because its incredibly chill and fun to watch.
I did minimalist on deflect because claw is such a reliable source of scaling offense for this achievement
Ok so imagine your deck has 1 claw, a purity, and an unceasing top relic....
I used Rampage for the same reason.
@@Drecon84 rampage is good, the other reason I think deflect is better is because of cool-headed is also a common and consistent to obtain while provide defense. Pommel strike & shrug is not bad, though
Watching your A20 runs for a while I was wandering what would you be capable of at low levels of Ascension! Let me say... this is just so incredible to watch! It really feels like a different game
I really appreciate this series and am excited to see it move forward. Even if you aren't able to cover every facet of the game in just 84 runs, the fact that you're taking special care to discuss your thought processes as you make decisions and comment on the pitfalls you think new players tend to fall into goes a long way to teach players how to think and make decisions on their own. I've been A20 on all characters for a short while, and I already feel like I've learned or been reminded about so much just from watching these last few videos you've put out.
Plus, personally, I find made for UA-cam content much more engaging than Stream vods, but that may just be me.
I just hit my first infinite combo with Ironclad and killed the heart for the second time, and your videos are super helpful. This video in particular - with the minimalistic approach to the first area - was particularly instructive, not just for Watcher, but for the other classes as well. My first heart kill was with Watcher, but I didn't feel particularly in control of the game at any point, so this run was the first one I was happy with.
Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge in these videos Jorb!
I’ve been noodling around with sts for the last week or so. Since unlocking heart and setting that as my goal for clearing the game, I wasn’t having too hard a time on silent and defect just chosing good 0 cost cards and lots of draw.
Ironclad’s card pool had started to frustrate me so I went looking for answers and found this video series. My first ironclad act 3 clear was carried by bulwark so rng wasn’t always allowing me to play that strategy though solving heart does demand generating a ton of block outside of the usual action economy if you aren’t making 300 damage turns. It’d definitely be interesting/educational to newer players to also demonstrate a few larger (30-40 card) decks and/or non infinite wins.
If I had to point out something that’s especially stood out to me as a help concept that doesnt just follow normal deck building “pick these cards/thin decks are good” logic it’s the timing of strong attack cards in act 1.
Great run! I enjoy the cozy vibes. I find games that are perfectly balanced, or at least close to it, incredibly boring. I enjoy solving the puzzles that the Spire throws at me with an weaker deck and I enjoy stomping all over it, just clicking without thinking. Thats what makes games like this so replayable and enjoyable to me.
Had a lot of fun watching you slay. Changed my mind about the game completely
Come to Brazil
Will do
Venha
It mad eme so happy (probably because of the surprise) to see you at LRRMTG. You are awesome Jorbs!
I just did my Minimalist AND Common Sense achievements yesterday. Defect with two claws (one upgraded), two Defends and the only card you need as Defect - Coolheaded (upgraded). I got lucky with an Act 2 peace pipe which allowed me to add a Metamorphosis in early Act 3 to help me get thru the hallway fights. Also got lucky with awakened one as the boss. All that's left is a 20 minute speedrun to get all achievements.
it's always enjoyable to hear your thoughts about the things you're doing. thanks for the content, jorbs. jorbsLove
thank you for this series Jorbs, and get well.
How to win with watcher:
- Get a critical mass of stance dance cards
- Win
i mean, this run won without doing that but, yeah.
@@tomjackal5708 How to win with watcher.
- Play watcher
-Win
fortunately the "critical mass" is just 2 cards: Eruption and Vigilance
@@sylvainsanesti3499 eh, sometimes you need a 1 cost calm, but yeah critical mass is usually just two cards
I really love this series. And I agree with the comment that said you don’t need to put long explanations in the description. I think it would be fine to explain things you think you missed that were important but otherwise it’s fine to not explain every little detail.
I did minimalist with 2 drop kicks, a bash and a shrug it off.
This may sound weird, but I think Jorbs spire advices are actually effecting my IRL decisions , in a good way of course.
I start to think more toward completing my objective, have a clearer vision of what I lack and the ways to inprove them with thing I have access to.
Also just small tips for new players:
Establishment doesn't work with Runic Pyramid.
The pyramid make player not discard card at the end of turn, which is different from retain.
I really like these videos. Thank you for making them!
the best advice about watcher i gave to my friend was "if you want to count whether or not you have lethal, you have lethal just click on your cards"
I am a noob but I managed to get the minimalist achievement with the watcher after 5 trys. I started with 'transform 2 cards'. The combo was: I went in calm, then wrath and endet with empty fist to leave wrath. Worked very well
What's that? The sound of a thousand spires slain by noobs with establishment + meditate infinites?
Honestly, good for them. Abolish the Spire.
For minimalist, I think Ironclad is easiest because there are several archetypes that work. Dropkick infinite, Sundial with Pommel/Shrug, Barricade/Bodyslam, Evolve/Firebreathing.
I Love this content, have you ever thought about going over runs like this with someone looking to get better so they can ask more targeted questions for maybe people that have been playing the game for awhile but struggle to progress in the ascensions?
As someone already pointed out, offering (or any other self inflicted unavoidable damage) will not count against perfect in boss or Champion in elite fights.
Really cool videos!
You forgot to add this video to the "How to win at Slay the Spire" playlist.
Thanks for the series I've been enjoying it so far. There are a ton of runs if you do each character at each Ascension level from A1 to A20. If you want a series to show progression in strategy or decision making as you move up Ascension levels, but think it's unrealistic to do this many videos in the series, why not just jump a few at a time? Maybe do a set at A0, A1, A5, A10 etc.
Edit: I didn't think about the logistics of this if you want to continue to have a separate save file for this series (can't skip ascension levels) but I'm sure there are some workarounds for that...
Actual double-take when I saw him draw an Offering at 33:00
I can't believe I avoided Evaluate all this time but it's actually OP.
By the way Offering doesn't ruin your perfect score when you play it, cards that deal unblockable damage to player don't count as taking damage for the purposes of Perfect/Champion
Minimalist is rng dependent, sometimes you just have 6 or 7 at the end and you can't do anything about it, after hitting as many stores and events as you can.
Astrolabe on this seed was a possible angle. Collecting the keys for one more shop is a desperation option, but drafting even a single card the old fashioned way is a huge deal. No idea if Astrolabe would've given you a viable A0 deck on its own, either. It's not as consistent as Empty Cage, and Smiling Mask would've been nice.
I will always argue that pressure points is a great card. Even though it's absolutely bad at winning runs. Borrowing some common MTG terminology, it's a card for Johnny. Taking something weird and/or underpowered and forcing it to work are definitely more important than winning for some.
I agree with this very much! I think Slay the Spire benefits a lot from having cards like that because of the Transform mechanic as well; even if you wouldn't take them deliberately, you'll still end up with them in your deck sometimes.
Can Simeone explain why store vault plus instead vault?
1 Point off kekW 1:11:26
Great series btw
my brain doesn't have enough wrinkles to play watcher often. pretty much just silent and defect for me. but watching you and baalord definitely helps when im trying to figure out what moves to make with watcher.
I tried to play a pressure points deck. I tried way too many times. The time I got 3 copies, 2 upgraded, in the first act on Ascention 1 (rewound from ~6 on the basis that maybe it would work on low difficulty? I'm only up to 12 now, so I haven't got that much better since then lol) and STILL died to the first act 2 elites I came across was what finally disabused me of trying.
It has the same drawbacks as poison (weak to artifact charges etc) without proc'ing every turn. It's just *bad* - but I still wanted to win with a janky deck, and was upset that there wasn't a difficulty low enough to let me do that :(
I think the only hard part about watcher is she has so many good cards it's hard to decide what to take at times, also, mixed in with all those good and amazing and borderline broken cards, are cards that on paper, should be awesome and useful!, but in practice are actually pretty trash, so learning what is what and how to manage your wrath usage will make A20 watcher a breeze!
Watcher is easy, which is why I haven’t been able to win with her for the last several runs… 😂 Going to try using the starter deck next time!
If you get stance dancing, flurry and rushdown. Congratulations.
If not, abandon and start over.
Ez
watched this video once, my next run got the same infinite build you did and won, but i accidentally didnt get the red key sadge
It would be interesting to see a run where everything goes wrong. Like how bad does have to be for an S tier player to lose?
At low Ascension, I'm not sure it's possible
@@Math.Bandit Yea I obviously mean 20
You know what they say about small decks..
Lol dude 800+hours on this game, and I didnt have minimalist either. Two runs after watching this and now it's done...
Do I have lethal? YES.
On your recent relic tier list, you ranked Gremlin Horn as "restricted in vintage". What makes it so good? Would you ever buy it in a shop?
29:43 So you're saying Watcher had lethal?
Jorbs: I’m going to teach you how to beat the game with Watcher
Also Jorbs: I’m going to skip all the strong cards that you should really take if you want to win with Watcher, because we are going for minimalist.
FWIW, I do think that it’s spiced things up, and am hoping Jorbs will go for other achievements during this series (e.g. only commons, or no relics). However, found it funny to do so in the introductory ascension 0 run.
It was pretty obvious from the first episode of this series that he was already bored
For what it's worth, I think most of this works on high Ascension with Watcher as well. Many of his Watcher runs don't get posted to YT (I believe because they're pretty same-y for viewers), but if you watch his stream he skips a ton of cards. My instinct would be that he would probably have taken one or two more damage cards in Act 1, and possibly that Halt he skipped. So, I don't feel like he's being misleading, really.
Yes, it caps you at only getting one card unlock per run.
are you considering continuing this series?
Runic Pyramid causes us to retain our entire hand, so why doesn't Establishment reduce the cost of every single card?
There's a slight wording difference: Runic Pyramid makes you SKIP DISCARDING your hand, it doesn't actually retain.
Why didn’t the first slime boss split?
Can someone explain to me why vault is so good? Ive been watching Jorbs for a while now and he values it highly but I don't understand why exactly. I mean its better than ending a turn with extra energy (but it's a 3 cost before upgrade) and it synergizes with some relics (but he takes it early with no relics sometimes) so like, why?
You get a reshuffle and draw a new hand at worst it's still very good
It's not a 3 cost card, it's a 0 cost card. Don't get so hung up on the ending turn part. It's basically a 0 cost "discard all non-retain cards in your hand, draw 5 cards, trigger all effects that happen at the start of your turn". With energy relics and upgrade, you also get free energy.
At worst it lets you take a mulligan on your turn. If you didn't draw the cards you need, you can draw a new hand, where you are very likely to draw those cards. Once you upgrade it, or get more energy, it just gives you free energy. You can play a power or attack before Vault, and you don't have to worry about blocking that turn.
Watcher is by far my least favorite class. Her entire gimmick is to play around stances but most of her cards that revolve around divinity aren't that good BUT wrath/calm cards are absurd. Too many times you're offered brilliance, blasphemy or alpha and taking them would be a mistake. On the contrary, you're never wrong in taking rushdown, mental fortress, talk to the hand... I have all characters to A20 but watcher? A10. Going infinite with watcher is so boring I outright refuse to do it. I enjoy runs where I have an upgraded blasphemy+battle hymn+master reality/establishment.
It's a shame because the other classes have a variety of play styles that work but watcher? 99% of the times you'd be stupid not to go for infinites... I want to play simmering fury, not rushdown on repeat :(
I cannot win with this class on Ascension 0, no matter what I do. Cool video though, congrats
Never run infinite :D So that's why I'm not in high ascencion. I just play as devs have intended.
Why store a vault+ over a vault?😊
Because you can get it back out if you run into the same event later, and the upgrade is stored. So the best thing to put in is the best card you don't need, and Watcher is so broken you can just not even need a Vault+.
!dig
i find watcher the hardest tbh
I think, for your sanity, and everyone's viewing pleasure, this series should be at A0, A5, A10, A15, and A20. Maybe you could also do A16 through A19. But doing *every single* low ascension run seems very unnecessary for someone as skilled as you.
I know this is both a year old and also the series seems dead anyways, but I think just climbing one Ascension per run makes sense instead of doing them all on each char. So A0 Clad, A1 Silent, A2 Defect, etc.
Is he not playing mod the spire meaning he can't get minimalist
pretty sure modthespire just prevents the steam achievements but you can still see them in the save file bc modthespire has a separate save file list
🪷🤏😺 wow! I got: 9 cards, 10 relics, 2 powers, & 0 hp! Thanks, slavers !
19:47