ASTRLABE! Why'd We Start With You?! | Ascension 20 Defect Run | Slay the Spire
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
- An Astrolabe start into Skin, Capacitor and Recycle, let's see what deck that build.
Link to twitch VOD: / 692967158
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I'm really liking the drawing on screen, it makes it way easier to remember and understand your decision making.
I want to know what drawing tablet model he's using
"I fear no man, but those things (cut to Darklings) they scare me"
Streamline, go for the eyes and CLAW. And none of it in the tease. That's a true 200IQ play by YTJorbs.
The addition of the pink pen has been a massive leap forward! I’m loving it!
Nice to see a run where he doesn't just comfortably walk into act four like most of the other ones
When he was asking about his itchy back, I wished I could have been there to say, Play Claw
Jorbs trying to explain to chat how StS handles random number generation was pretty funny (if not a little sad because he's trying to run an entertainment broadcast and now has to spend time re-explaining computer science/mathematics to twitch chat whenever someone asks). You can almost see the grey hairs growing in.
Entertainment broadcast? Jeez… hes streaming a video game 😅 lets not make it seem more than it is
@@allnamesaretakenb4are you not being entertained by it? Is he not broadcasting it?
Why does defect need to rest? Isnt it a robot? I like to imaginé he gets an oil change or something like that
Greetings from Argentina🥰
Robots can need to do secondary processing or need to divert power to repair systems just like a human don't think it makes that little sense.
@@bentroyer1At the campfire though? It really is just for resting :/
@michaeladams2074 I interpreted those floors as safe zones in the spire more which still could be useful to him. Also maybe he uses it as a forge. Assuming hes made of a low temp alloy or something. But yeah the fire is likely superfluous to him.
This run brought to you by "hologram is a really good card guys"
56:04 no thought given here to dualcasting the plasma orb? Gives enough energy to play the echo form and also do other things (like blocking that savage book of stabbing).
Half the point of the plasma was to be able to get echo in play, right?
It was possibly also the better place to use the upgrade pot, make echo not ethereal and 6 upgrades generally good. Or both, free dualcast means you have an extra energy to capacitor or w/e…
Finally UA-cam Jorbs takes S Tier Streamline
Those darklings were rough, but those act 4 elite draws were miserable. Insane mastery and deck navigation (except maybe for that forgotten echo form'ed echo form on the heart fight lol), thanks for the upload!
Wait so if you recycle an x cost card with 2 energy left you get 2 more back?
If your title had included "Jorbs picks a Streamline AND a claw?" I feel like this could have 10x as many views lol.
The drawing on the screen is nice
Ah yes 3 hours speed run
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I fell asleep on my phone.
he thinks too much, its kinda hard to see 5 min just for choosing 1 card !!!! comeon jorbs go quicker!
@@Evolved_Monkey Well considering I watch jorbs to go to sleep, I think his content is fine.
@@Evolved_Monkey pokes jorbs with a stick
I really appreciate how the pink pen on screen matches Jorbs's background lighting. It's a nice touch & a great color choice, honestly. 💖
I enjoy this content
joey lehman I enjoy this comment and I also enjoy this content.
I enjoy both this comments and also the content
I enjoy the enjoyment of comments as well as of content, also the comments and content itself.
@@peter-klausnikolaus4823 You win the internet
25:43 Always impressed by your ability to remain calm under pressure.
kinda funny getting this in my recommended, and then seeing myself in twitch chat
Is this a claw deck?
2:38:24
Jorbs: *scribbles on shopkeeper's carpet*
Shopkeeper: .........................................................................
Jorbs' ability to see potential always amazes me. I'm so envious.
I think I've only seen Jorbs pick tiny chest once since it's rework. I don't think a relic that you actually avoid like the plague is making the game enjoyable.
Was it Cursed Key Omamori Peripat Duvu or whatever?
I enjoy tiny chest a lot, I think jorbs doesnt like it as much because he thinks much more about things like event spaces and certain chances and stuff like that, and relies on it a lot more, whereas the more casual player treats it almost like matryoshka, as in just a couple more free relics over the course of a run. I also wouldnt take it if i had cursed key, but I dont pick it up as often as jorbs and there are plenty of existing anti-synergies like that in the game already. I think the relic is fine as a relic that has a mostly positive effect, where top high ascension players might skip it for other reasons.
I prefer the old tiny chest
@@slin_jim He has one of the top win rates, but it's not a game we can really solve 100% so it's still possible that other priorities might be equally good. But it makes me hesitate, and then I get it anyway.
@@slin_jim he issue I have is that you can fight a gremlin nob as your first elite hoping for a relic to make you better and the second you see a tiny chest you can think "having this is actively bad, I don't want it" even though you have no relics. The thing about tiny chest is that my runs have improved a lot more since I've started skipping it. Technically it's two extra relics per run but it stops you getting other events that could be useful in act 2 and 3. I don't know what kind of rework would be needed to make it re pickable. Maybe "every 4th hallway fight drops a relic" or every 4th chest drops an extra relic? Gain gold for every floor you climb? I don't know.
Truly a thing of beauty
2:28:15
Why do you have Slimed in your draw pile drawing the Time water fight?
21:00 - I was rooting for the spicy Panache but with 9 HP it might die in the next fight. Feels bad.
Is the drawing on screen for accesibility purposes, like the hearing impaired?
I think so, in addition, it just helps illustrate(literally and figuratively) his thought process for both himself and viewers
Its for the thinking impaired :D
Anyone else finds it kinda funny that there seems to be some complaint that they found out that you can predict certain things to happen in the seed after they spend all that time going through the code to find out how seeds work so they can actually find patterns and thus predict certain things?? Why did you go through the code and try to find out how seeding works if you don't want to gain knowledge about the seed from it? I really don't understand that logic...
Yeah in practice this isn't a big deal. But this is a theoretical weakness.
Even if you don't know know that there's a weakness in something doesn't mean it isn't there. It's a flaw in the program but not a very important one (and one that could be fixed... but would break old seeds... not sure if the devs care).
And once you know it's there then some people will take advantage of it.
It is conceivable that the people who found it and the people who are complaining about it are not the same people.
even without going through the code, there are things you start to pick up on in spire where one thing always/never happens after another thing, and that shouldn't happen. it's not only a bug but it's also a really gross one because it feels like the game is gaslighting you. when someone explained that this was why i felt vindicated after 5000 hours of playing the game and thinking "huh i swear i've seen this pattern before".
@Refined Snack as a software developer, I second this
Is heatsinks was good due to force field? It seems to be useless without genetic algorithm or crazy amount of talents (how much you need for it is also a good topic).
Seed school with Jorbs
That part was super interesting. Learned some new stuff for sure :)
It should be noted that jorb's approach of using the output of one rng as the seeds of other rng objects works with most generator algorithms but not all of them. Some rng algorithms specifically use the output of the previous call as the input for the next one with no meaningful modification (see middle square). In that case, as someone in chat pointed out, they could be generating the same sequence just offset by 1, which is bad. This however is not usually an issue since it's poor practice to use that kind of rng in the first case... They tend to create bad sequences anyway, so it should be safe to use jorb's method.
That being said, simply adding 1 to the seed between using it as the input for rng objects would also work to create different sequences. A much cleaner approach to write out imo but its the same result so 🤷
@@OxidisedGearz or as some people in chat (which he completely missed unfortunately) were suggesting you could just have a compound seed where you have x separate seeds for various things combined into one seed, and the code would use the different seeds for the different types of rng. Then there is absolutely no way to correlate what happens during say a fight to what is going to happen during the next question mark. There are a lot of really elegant and simple solutions tbh.
1:55:37 - Wait. Recycling an X card is like playing Double Energy???
Yeah.
Sweet
I would love to know why he dosnt play the claws sometimes, thanks!
timestamp? Certain fights it is not beneficial
I'm sure no one really cares, but Jorb's suggestion for the RNG generation (using RNG(SEED) as the input for RNG1 etc.) would still allow the player to glean relevant information for RNGs by observing other RNGs. The key points to understanding why are:
1. All the different RNGs use the same RNG function so RNG1(x) == RNG2(x).
2. Using the previous result of an RNG as the seed for the next call to an RNG is already how RNGs generate their values. I.e. output1 = RNG(SEED), output2 = RNG(output1), output3 = RNG(output2), etc. This means that with Jorb's proposal, the function for determining the second value in a given RNG is the same as the function for determining the first value in the next RNG.
For these two reasons, each successive RNG would be the same as the previous RNG, but pushed forward by a single step in the series. So if RNG0 produces 2, 6, 1, 4... then RNG1 would produce 6, 1, 4... This means that if players learned the order of the RNGs, they could still gather some information about the result of future events by looking at the results of different RNGs.
IMO a better solution would to give each RNG a SALT value that it adds to the SEED to determine it's starting RNG. Something like RNG1[0] = RNG(SEED), RNG2[0] = RNG(SEED + 1), RNG3[0] = RNG(SEED + 2). This works well for two reasons:
1. Each RNG would use the same SALT every time, meaning that if you reuse your SEED, each of the RNGs will have the same output as previous usages of the SEED.
2. Because of the mechanics of RNGs, seeds that are barely different (SEED and SEED + 1 for example) result in completely different sequences, so there would be no discernible relationship between separate RNGs.
No RNG0 is a hidden value that is used as a seed for the other RNG values, so instead of one set of random numbers used for each separate RNG set, like it is now, you have a list of random numbers altered in some way for each new set you need, so that each set is a different set if numbers. He even said on stream when they where talking about it that the number don't advance it make a new set. So the better solution you have is actually the same one I think he was trying to explain
@@pennding3415 But the question is how do you generate that list? The devs want you to be able to copy and reuse the seed, so making one super long seed would be cumbersome. You also don't want to use a random number generator because like Kevin Lund said, that would lead to each RNG giving the same sequence but offset by one (2nd element of RNG1 == 1st element of RNG2 etc). This happens because most games use simple rng algoritms which have a 1:1 relation between the internal state, seed, and output value. More advanced algorithms have a larger internal state so they don't have this problem, or at least to a lesser extent. That leaves only the solution Kevin Lund gave, to have each element of RNG0 be 1 + the previous element (and the first element is the seed), or some variation of it.
@@pennding3415 "He even said on stream when they where talking about it that the number don't advance it make a new set."
I know that he said that, what I'm saying is that he's wrong.
First, if RNG0 is a hidden, random value then you couldn't reuse SEEDs because you'd get a different RNG0 every time. Jorb's specifically states that RNG0 is seeded with RNG(SEED). If you then use that result ro seed other RNGs then you're just using the same sequence but advanced one step. I think the key disconnect is that people don't know that RNGs calculate values by plugging in previous values as SEEDs.
@Refined Snack Saying "Rng0 is hidden" really makes me think you're just parroting the streamer and don't actually know what you're talking about. What does it mean for an rng to be "hidden"? An RNG is not a value that can be "hidden". Its a number *generator*. An RNG is a just tool that can take a number as input and spit out a seemingly random number as output.
By "hidden" do you mean that it is an RNG that is seeded with a hidden number? If this is your suggestion, then that is incompatible with seed sharing, since each run will be randomized with this hidden bonus seed, so two runs with the same known seed will will be completely different due to different "hidden" seeds.
By "hidden" do you mean that it uses the known seed, but we can't see the output? This is meaningless. The results of RNGs are already hidden, but its their impacts in the game that can be used to gain information about future events. This would still be the case, because you could just observe the impact of RNGs further down the line, and still use them to gain information due to the relationship between RNGs I discussed in my original comment.
By "hidden" do you mean that it uses a "hidden" algorithm to calculate the random values, separate from the algorithm that is used for the other RNGs? This could theoretically work, but would be a terrible waste of effort and complexity since it would require writing their own RNG or importing an RNG library. This is introducing an unnecessary failure point in the system and is a very suboptimal, overengineered solution IMO. If you're already bringing in arbitrary new generator algorithms, why not just give each of the 14 RNGs their own algorithm? There is a reason that most programs use a single RNG algorithm for all purposes: its simpler, and when managed correctly is capable of behaving in a way that is indistinguishable from actually using separate algorithms.
This is a problem that can be solved by simply adjusting inputs. Fundamentally changing the core of your algorithm or bringing in an all new algorithm is a terrible use of your time and effort when such a simple solution exists.
@Refined Snack You can't just *say* that it can't be used to calculate fights etc. Just because you don't use it directly to calculate in-game events doesn't mean you cant observe its impacts in-game.
"It's not particularly difficult and it does not require rewriting the library. It just requires more calls to the rng function that they are already using."
^^^ This is the core misunderstanding. RNG functions are deterministic, for a given input they will always give you the same output, and all the RNGs in STS use the same RNG function. This means that RNG1(x) will always give the same result as RNG12(x). If you wanted them to give different results for the same input, you'd have to use a different function under the hood, which would require a whole new algorithm.
The other main misunderstanding is that *each* time you call an RNG function, it is using a SEED value to calculate some seemingly random but actually deterministic output value. Its not like you instantiate the RNG with a SEED and then it goes off to the races making random numbers. Every single call to the RNG requires a SEED value that it will use to calculate the output. If you don't provide a SEED directly, then it will use the previously calculated value as the SEED to the next call (this is what happens in STS).
If S0 is our SEED, S1 is the result of RNG(S0), S2 is the result of RNG(S1) etc. then the series of values from RNG0 looks like this:
RNG0: S0 --> S1 --> S2 --> S3 --> S4...
Ok great. This series is "hidden" from the player. We never directly use it to calculate anything in game. But we *do* use it to seed RNG1. What does that look like in practice? As proposedl, we use the result of RNG(SEED) (which is S1) as the seed to RNG1. So what does RNG1 actually look like? Because RNG0 and RNG1 use the same RNG function under the hood, it will look the same, except it starts at S1:
RNG1: S1 --> S2 --> S3 --> S4 --> S5...
By the proposal, the same is done for RNG2, but it uses the result of RNG(S1) as a seed instead so it goes:
RNG2: S2 --> S3 --> S4 --> S5 --> S6
This continues for each of the RNGs. Thus, despite never actually seeing the direct impact of RNG0, we can for instance, observe S3 in RNG1, and use that to predict the events of S3 in RNG2.
Astrlabe stole the O
The “O” got transformed into an “”
This is what it takes to get a claw deck
Ah yes, the astrlabe that jrbs took, that one
A 3 hour run, I guess everything else will have to wait for tomorrow.
I propose to you all, the most absurd and ridiculous idea that will never happen for a multitude of reasons... Storm+, bottled Heatsinks, Mummified Hand, and 3000 Buffers+.
It only needs to be 2 buffers and some exhaust
lmao so many Darklings
Feel like creative AI would have been a good addition from the card game
I feel like this is “astrolabe start overexained” (I’m only on floor 12 so I could be wrong)
Anyone got a link to the glitch video Jorbs references here: 2:38:35
Jorbs really stuck his neck out for the thumbnail
A fellow summer hater.
Astrlabe
Not sure if spelling error or High Memelish
¿Porque no los dos?
(Roughly "Why not both?" In Spanish of you're interested).
why doesn't you use attacks often?
When is the Ironclad run where you got 200+ hp being uploaded?
everytime jorbs think, he looks up somewhere above his monitor, that is where he has hidden the all possible route of said seed
which proves that almost everyrun he had had always been not only prerecorded but also seeded, he just picks which way is more interesting for the stream and/or youtube to watch
That one guy that doesn't understand RNG seeding.
Why isnt Jorbs using Slay.I? It would show him the best card selections to save HP.
he did that once , the ai isnt so good
it is so cringe when people argue in chat about basic math facts and are dead wrong
51:26
The rainy food qualitatively inject because dorothy selectively worry out a bashful drink. foamy, shivering rutabaga
self repair save the run
self repair fixing the run for us.
Slavers elite fight is stupid, they hit too hard and they're relentless
HES STILL PLAYING THIS GAME? WTF
Its got a lot of content in it due to its variability
How much time does he have in sts?
@@doresofrimento I would say at least more than 500 hours dunno
@@AuroraTheFirstLight I think you dropped a zero at the end of your number. His time is much closer to 5000 than 500.