Copying solely for my own use, but if this brings the list to the top for everyone else then great. 1:20:02 Final Tier List 0:50 Alpha (F Tier, $80 for A Tier 59:22) 2:17 Battle Hymn (D Tier) 3:23 Blasphemy (A Tier) 4:23 Bowling Bash (B Tier) 5:56 Brilliance (B Tier) 7:21 Carve Reality (D Tier) 8:18 Collect (A Tier) 9:48 Conclude (B Tier) 10:50 Conjure Blade (D Tier) 12:20 Consecrate (B Tier) 13:11 Crescendo (A Tier) 14:05 Crush Joints (A Tier) 15:07 Cut Through Fate (S Tier) 16:33 Deceive Reality (A Tier) 18:43 Defend (F Tier) 18:52 Deus Ex Machina (C Tier) 19:56 Deva Form (B Tier) 22:26 Devotion (C Tier) 24:24 Empty Body (B Tier) 25:13 Empty Fist (S Tier) 26:40 Empty Mind (A Tier) 27:17 Eruption (C Tier) 28:02 Establishment (A Tier) 30:27 Evaluate (C Tier) 32:21 Fasting (B Tier) 33:16 Fear No Evil (A Tier) 34:16 Flurry of Blows (S Tier) 35:14 Flying Sleeves (B Tier) 35:44 Follow-Up (A Tier) 36:39 Foreign Influence (C Tier) 37:26 Foresight (S Tier) 37:59 Halt (B Tier) 39:00 Indignation (A Tier) 39:34 Inner Peace (A Tier) 40:11 Judgement (D Tier) 41:04 Just Lucky (S Tier) 41:28 Lessons Learned (S Tier) 42:33 Like Water (C Tier) 43:18 Master Reality (F Tier) 44:45 Meditate (S Tier) 45:57 Mental Fortress (A Tier) 47:24 Nirvana (B Tier) 48:20 Omniscience (S Tier) 49:00 Perseverance (C Tier) 50:11 Pray (F Tier) 50:47 Pressure Points (F Tier, $40 for C Tier 53:48, $80 for PP Tier 56:20) 52:27 Prostrate (C Tier) 53:23 Protect (B Tier) 54:48 Ragnarok (C Tier) 57:09 Reach Heaven (C Tier) 58:43 Rushdown (S Tier) 59:35 Sanctity (B Tier) 1:00:35 Sands of Time (S Tier) 1:01:33 Sash Whip (B Tier) 1:02:24 Scrawl (S Tier) 1:03:03 Signature Move (F Tier) 1:03:45 Simmering Fury (A Tier) 1:04:14 Spirit Shield (B Tier) 1:05:21 Strike (D Tier) 1:06:03 Study (F Tier) 1:07:52 Swivel (C Tier) 1:09:03 Talk to the Hand (S Tier) 1:09:09 Tantrum (A Tier) 1:09:43 Third Eye (A Tier) 1:10:45 Tranquility (A Tier) 1:10:56 Vault (S Tier) 1:11:54 Vigilance (C Tier) 1:12:18 Wallop (B Tier) 1:12:59 Wave of the Hand (A Tier) 1:13:46 Weave (A Tier) 1:14:36 Wheel Kick (B Tier) 1:15:21 Windmill Strike (B Tier) 1:16:40 Wish (A Tier) 1:17:53 Worship (C Tier) 1:18:40 Wreath of Flame (D Tier)
It isn’t as good with some decks that run cards like Ragnarock or meteor strike. And you are hoping to have at least two that can snowball. But adding one in from second level up if you don’t have one isn’t always the good choice. Still solid if you can get two or three. Especially if upgraded. But enemy’s with artifact will block it. And they don’t scale on strength.
Master Reality really should be a colorless card, or possibly even a universal relic. Every character has multiple cards that work with it and several other colorless cards do as well.
Hearing Frost somewhat snort in laughter nearly every time he hits the Beta Art button is so wholesome to me, the art is so funny and I always love seeing Frost's genuine enthusiasm for the game even after all this time.
I will be honest, I did not know that cut through fate was a common card. For some reason my brain always thought it was a uncommon since it's such a good card that can be found relatively easily.
I think the cards you undervalue are cause you don’t like the playstyle of how they synergize. Dues Ex Machina, Deva Form, Swivel, Ragnarok and Wheel Kick have great synergy with one another. Cause there is atleast two kinds of playstyles with the watcher, the quickly kill them before they kill you method with rapid form changes and lots of low damage cards, but these cards you undervalue are great on the watcher if you can defend enough to set up in one or two turns.(makes wish easier to pull off too)
Alpha is actually A tier, because I always draw Beta and then Omega exactly the turn after I play the previous one, and also I am averse to taking attacks and always take defense cards I think I make my case!
I really hope their will be a 5th character eventually. I love new content especially in a game where with every new character they always have some crazy complicated new combos too explore.
@@colebagin2277 Hermit is a really good and balanced character. He's also extremely unique! I like to play The Cursed sometimes, because even though he is practically a worse Ironclad, he can be fun with some (modded) curses; like Greed.
@@yasserkerbache unless they changed him since I played him ~1 year ago, hermit goes infinite extremely easily and I coasted from 1 to 20 ascension within a few days playing the same build
See also: Infernal Blade, Distraction, White Noise and Foreign Influence; and Double Tap, Burst, and Amplify (I don't think the Watcher has an analogous version of those cards unless I'm forgetting one)
@@Choccymilkshakeenjoyer it does, and it's literally in it's name. Ironclad can double attacks, silent can double skills, defect can double powers and watcher can double whatever the f she wants cuz she smort af.
I think weave should be a little higher, I freaking love that card. It's super strong because if you scry it, you can discard it, then it immediately goes to your hand, so you draw it for free.
Eruption at C tier is insane to me. It’s one of the reasons why Watcher is so consistently powerful. The ability to steamroll Act 1 is just so important and it’s all thanks to Eruption.
honestly I've struggled w/the watcher for so long -- i took one major thing from this: SCRY SCRY SCRY.. and i'm breezing through ascension levels.. thanks! p.s. I just got 4 pressure points and the +2 hp relic when not taking cards.. i had well over 100 hp, nonstop pressure points, absolutely melted everything, haha. so fun
I really love seeing devotion when I already have damaru or vise versa like knowing I'll be able to go into divinity every 2-3 turns and also if I brilliance it's like icing on the cake
I just Frost to know that youtube and twitch are starved for STS content. Even if it's not beating the heart. Even if it's not the craziest run ever we'll watch it. Because we love you and STS. Daily uploads like NL does with the binding of isaac would be so amazing
So, watching this made me re-evaluate how i play the watcher. I just straight up couldn't figure her out for literally years, and she saty at ascension 1 while I'm at 11+ in every other class on _three different platforms_. Now, I've just come off of a five-run winning streak, just because I figured out how to actually assess her cards. You rock, man. Thanks for this great series!
I think you’re underrating Judgement, taking it in act 1 or early act 2 wins those acts for you (though granted watcher doesn’t need much help), shutting down birds, sentries, orb, and slavers, and helps massively in every fight with multiple enemies.
@@pvewaste how many enemies in the game have block? Also, it doesn't deal 40 damage in a single draw? No, it deals like 100 lol, if you build your deck right and know how to shuffle your discard pile properly, it's the highest damage attack COMMON in the game. Also you don't even have to draw it, you can scry it away and get it back when you change stances. Also did I mention it blocks for 60 in the meantime since talk to the hand exists? All in all, a stance swapping watcher with a couple flurry of blows is by far the strongest fair deck in the game.
@@szelitzkyerick7456 sure, but that's reliant on lke 5 different rare cards to work, while judgement helps more in act 1/2 in a vacuum. And in the first place, I wasn't claiming Judgement was the best card ever, just underrated.
Great tier list! Glad to be able to accurately predict where a few would end up, but pleasantly surprised to learn a bunch more about this super unique character!
I've been struggling with the watcher a lot more than the other 3 characters, and now I know why. For the other characters, I generally avoided flooding my deck with too many commons, focusing on building around rares and uncommons. It seems like for Watcher, you actually want to pick up mostly commons instead because they're busted.
I'm only 10 minutes into the video but i already want to say: isn't it EXTREMELY sad how most watcher rares are kinda shitty? like now he has rated 4 rares and they are in B, C, E and F tier.... that's sooo bad... and he's actually rating them right cuz those cards are just garbage
My main issue with PP is that Watcher doesn't have amazing Artifact break. It's why I would put TttH in A tier too. Since there are a number of enemies/bosses that have Artifact which takes time for Watcher to get through. Since you're basically relying on Sash Whip and Crush Joints unless you get Wave on a good block turn.
Pressure Points is the most broken Card in the game by far. If you survive the early game and get 2-3 PP's you just have to remove as much cards as possible and cycle through them infinitely. I often die or abandon in act 1 with PP, but its the combo that easily carried me to beat the heart at a20 for the first time.
The constant snickering about the beta art is curing my depression, man. Unlocked the watcher yesterday, after a week of finally learning to play this game (been in my backlog for years, because I thought I hated card games… I was wrong). What a cool character. Can’t wait to master this one. This video really helps! As did the defect one. Thanks, Frost, you rule!
I like Deva Form because it lets me pick up (Also, use) more Fasting even if I don't get Pellets. Otherwise, it's like a poor man's Snecko Eye (Or a Snecko Eye I can use because Snecko hates me and just makes all my cards cost 3...)
I love Battle Hymn. A better strike guaranteed every turn so I can focus a little more on defence cards and stock-piling for divinity or wrath. It also pairs fantastically with establishment, churning out 0 mana deal 12s on a 1 turn delay
Yeah, ranking it so low confused me. A single card, and now for the rest of combat, you have access to high damage 1 energy cards with no draw. For every round you spend not doing a lot of damage because you need to block, this one power is stockpiling damage for when you FINALLY draw your wrath card. It's like one of the easiest cards to build around because it means you have less need to take damage cards and can focus on other cards. If you're making a divinity build, most builds are gonna be seeing at least 3 Smites before you finally change stances and nuke the fight.
If you play it and then play the smite next turn, that’s 2 cards 1 mana each for 12 damage total (over 2 turns). You can play 2 strikes as well. A lot of combats end in like 2-4 turns and you aren’t guaranteed to draw it turn 1 unless upgraded so it’s just meh
The watcher is the most fun character for me, the two most memorable runs are a Deva Form-Fasting deck, where I had two Deva forms and three fastings, which was incredible in elite and boss fights and the second run was a divinity deck where I got Mayhem+ from a shop and it was going great until I was fighting the heart and I had a Foresight running, so I discarded the last five cards in my deck, it reshuffled and Mayhem played Conclude, which lost me the run.
I'll have to wait an hour or so to watch but I will 100% leave a comment already because I have been waiting for the day this was uploaded so I can rewatch it a dozen times to cause the neural transmitters in my brain to overclock and fizzle out.
I had a run with 2 omniscience and an upgraded alpha. Turn 1 alpha followed by omniscience let me play 2 omegas turn 1. I had just the right relics lol
I feel the mantra generating cards are being a little undervalued here, all you need are 2 upgraded prostrates and a pray and you’re entering divinity every deck cycle, and only spending 1 mana on it. You can definitely build a deck around divinity, but I think people underestimate how easy it is to build a divinity engine into other deck types with not a ton of resources committed
As someone who’s new to the game, my first few runs with the watcher already made me realize how busted it is. I’ve got a lot of experience with deck builders and holy shit I was getting infinites in my first few wins with the watcher because of how powerful this character is.
In defense of Conjure Blade: while it's certainly not a card that you should build a deck around, I think it can be a spectacular secondary strategy when combined with wreath of flame. Especially if you're playing a deck that plays a lot of cards, like flurry, Conjure Blade can be a card to help get your through timekeeper or heart. It's not something you rely on, it's something you set up while doing your heavy stance swap bullshit
Honestly, conjure blade is mega goated, especially if you get it with deva form and\or master reality With watcher in general, if you stance dance or use divinity, you're generating a lot of energy and thanks to scry and things like meditate you can choose when to cash in big in making and using the expunger Master reality bumps it from a 9x damage to 15x and it becomes worthwhile even if you invest just two energy in it, or one if it's upgraded Was my trump card in my first ever heart kill!
My biggest issue with Deus ex Machina is that you can't use a card that let's you seek through your draw pile and grab it that way like omniscient, it doesn't proc the ability.
Listening to you give so much insights on how the game is supposed to be played. Man I have never had used Halt nor Indignation... I just won A14 with The Wather :D
@@abridge2 oh I see lmao, I feel like the watcher takes the biggest brain to learn but the smallest brain to play, just force yourself to play a stance switching or scry deck a bunch and you'll learn fast, trial by fire.
Quick question regarding the blaspemy if you have an artifact or pellets can you get rid of the die next turn or no just asking cause im not very informed on this game
The game considers blasphemy a buff so you can't counter it with artifact or pellets. The way it works is that if you have another turn after activating it you take something like 9999 damage at the start of the turn, which afaik can be negated the same as any other damage source with a buffer or intangibility.
I realize this is a year later, but I always want to point out that you need to end your turn with two intangible, because the damage is applied at the start of the next turn.
I once made a build that I called ‘Your wish is yours to keep’. I think it started with Wish off losing all your gold and then I got Omniscience, upgraded both and managed to get another copy of both so omni into omni into wish and wish so I could do stuff like 24 strength.
I come from ygo and more aptly, mtg... it's hard to believe that people don't find COLLECT that useful. Mana ramp is ridiculous but yes, you have to draw into cheap resource cards or have expensive, op ones. Good content. Thanks for doing the work for me 😅 ❤
Watcher has plenty of ways to get into Wrath (Crecendo, Tantrum and Simmering Fury) which do it easier and are cards you like to put into your deck even multiple times (Tantrum is a strong attack in of itself for example) Ironchad doesn't really have that many good ways to give Vulnerable (Uppercut, Thunderclap and Shockwave) since they're kind of clunky (Uppercut only lasts 1 turn unless upgraded, Thunderclap only lasts 1 turn and Shockwave exhausts) and not really cards you'll put multiple of into your deck unless you're memeing with Sadistic Nature and Champion Belt.
@@tarille1043 Tantrum and Simmering Fury are both uncommon. Crescendo exhausts so you can't stancedance long with it, and you're not adding multiple of them to your deck. Eruption is guaranteed and always there for you. Also, most notably, it can get rid of its 2 energy cost. Bash is always clunky to play, but Eruption+ in calm straight-up generates mana.
I would put Conclude lower because I always want to be in a warth stance using that to double the damage, so it "force" you to take x2 damage on enemy turn, so you want to use this strategy only when enemy doesn't attack, which happen a real few time in this game..
Battle Hymn getting compared to Infinite Blades and thrown to D tier makes me sad lol, because it's one of my favourites. It's the one single card that supplies you with infinite amount of (almost) Empty Fist+ in terms of damage, for 1 mana. I usually take it on mid floor 1~floor 2 if I see it. Also it's the biggest source of Retain cards. Has synergies with Establishment, Master Reality, Spirit Shield, Cloak Clasp. It's almost like those things were created around Battle Hymn.
It quickly requires you to use the cards it produces or your hand will get chunky. Like a couple other retain cards and then you go into a fight that doesn’t like cards played every turn like time eater and it stink :(
@@TheFrostPrime I don't think you've ever played a proper divinity deck. Battle hymn is easily most important divinity card. Its one of the best cards to run in them because it stacks your hand up with 36 damage strike+ that you play on your divinity turn. Wallhop is another core divinity card. 36 damage for 36 block. Its core block engine card for divinity decks. If your not using battle hymn, than your probably using Raknerok or Cut through Violence which are ok cards for divinity decks, Wheelhouse doing 60 damage can work as well. The main issue with other types of attacks is that Battle hymn is 1 card and it only costs 1 card "space". If you run other attack cards, you physically have to draw them and if its not turn you gain divinity, they're kinda dead turns in which you can die. A power I think you undervalue is study+, putting insight in your deck is pretty good for divinity and Halt decks(Decks that stay in Wraith entire game). it allows shuffle through your deck. Again divinity decks are hard to make because they're like pressure point decks, you need get prostates, worship, devotion, the relic etc. but they're fun if you get right pieces. Like the water is another power I think you undervalue as Like the water is really good with Wave the hand, It gives weakness generation which is important for survival as weakness is % damage modifier to mitigating damage. I'd say Sash whip is also under-valued. A card I think is overvalued in your tier-list is Wish. Wish is garbage in every possible way. Its only use is Omnipotence+ Wish, It gives 60 gold but it wastes a turn to use it, Its dead card in your deck at end of the turn and card giving gold is bad because your paying deck space for card removal which ALSO costs gold. F-tier. Playing Wish is also expensive. 3 cost is too high, even for watcher. It also wastes upgrade slots...in which you have very few campfires given how many other cards on watcher are good upgrades(Scrawl, Vault, so on).
Tbh, one of my best runs was with pressure points. I somehow managed to draw 4 of them and basically replaced all my strikes. It was utter carnage. The damage dealing potential is crazy.
I... I genuinely thought the card was 'Prostate' and never questioned it... Frost has infected me... In other non surprising news I am bad at words -Andrew
I just started playing less than a week ago so inexperience might be talking, but I disagree HARD on Battle Hymn. I think the card is B+ - A tier. You get a reliable 1 energy attack that hits twice as hard as a strike, 24 damage in wrath mode, and the retain let's you hang on to them for a couple turns, setting up your calm and perhaps a vulnerable or something, so that turn 3-4 you can just nuke everything. Upgrading is alright but 2 per turn is cutting into your energy allotment and hand size limit too much imo. But I will gladly take an early battle hymn and basically remove every other attack, grab all the stance changes I can, and combo my way up to lethal in 1-3 turns even for harder fights like solo elites.
Already watched the stream but back here to pog up andrew. Only things I'd say is badly ranked is Carve reality, Wreath of flames and *maybe* Battle hymn. ~Wreath of flames Tantrum. Tanrtum is an A rank card that, you will want in your deck that, When upgraded, Synergises with Wreath way better than Ragnorok. Just Wreath alone, To use your own saying, is 20(5x4) damage 1 mana; 40 if in wrath and then when upgraded 32 damage(8x4) 1 mana; 64 in wrath. Thats Nuts, and very likely to happen due to Tantrum's Shuffle. Even if its 2 energy for that, it can be set up like stances since both Wrath and Stances retain between turns. It's not an insane combo or anything, but its one worth putting in the C for Cituational Rank. ~Carve and Battle Hymn I understand Empty fist being amazing, but your, not always gonna have it. Despite the watcher having leathal, they still are a set up character for Wrath + attacks. Carve reality is a small attack that lets you always have an decent Attack to use when you get into Wrath, that on its own is a great thing to have. A battle Hymn can funtion in a similar way but for Longer periods, which has positives and negatives.
The issue with Wreath is it's spending 1 mana to do nothing initially. Unless you're likely to draw into (Or have in hand) Tantrum or Ragnarok and maybe Flying Sleeves which are Watchers only 3 multi-hit attacks it feels underwhelming. If it was an Ironchad card it'd be much better since he gets a plethora of multi-hit attacks and Barricade lets him stall out and wait for cards. Carve has the unfortunate thing of the base card is just a Strike. Why would you want to put just a Strike INTO your deck when you could just pick a card that is Strike+ already? The payoff of getting a Strike+ to hold in your hand isn't worth it when Watcher has so many good Strike+ cards. Battle Hymn's issue is just how it clogs up your hand which has huge anti-synergy with so many other things like good retain cards, Collect, Rushdown, Simmering Fury, Deus Ex Machina, Runic Pyramid and basically all card draw. If you have Establishment already then it's a little better because then you can just toss out some 0 mana Strike+ to empty your hand (Or alternatively instead of having these 2 mediocre cards, run 2 cards that give Watcher Lethal)
@@tarille1043 Mostly agree, but... Battle hymn is exactly that, can turn into a problem. Carve, Being a contolled version helps. I feel the Retain of a good Strike+ is worth more than most are giving it, Early Hallway fights/elites it may not be too good, but I can be good to have for the beefier boys mid Act 2 and beyond. Benifits off alot of Set up deck types like Simmering fury, Divinity Decks (especially blasphemy wanting to ensure a kill) or establishment. Wreath works because of the draw and Scy control to get what you want, and like i said Tantrum is a card you almost always want and shuffles to have in draw alot. Youll already have a piece of the puzzles, Wreath just amplifies it like crazy. Plus It's a skill, its not meant to have an immediate effect, comparing that point, Swivel is more situational for a higher cost and thats in C Rank where Wrath also deserves to be.
@@alphax-shroom6781 Swivel gives block. Wreath gives nothing. Swivel hitting any random 1 cost attack is basically 1 energy for 8/11 block which is Defend++ Wreath hitting any random 1 cost attack is 1 energy for a worse Strike (As it only deals 5/8 damage instead of Strike's 6/9). That's why Wreath NEEDS to hit multi-hit attacks to be worthwhile. While sure, Tantrum is A tier, you don't always draw it properly and you have to consider is adding this card and then trying to play around it by scrying a bunch to line up Wreath into Tantrum really worth it? Especially when Tantrum+ already just hits like a truck and will wreck all hallway fights as is?
@@tarille1043 don't forget (he also forgot to take note of in the video) that aoe cards such as consecrate also multiply the damage from wreath. (Also bowling bash is another multi attack card)
@@manflutewarrior Though, Watcher doesn't have many AoE attacks (Literally, just Consecrate and Conclude) to get good use from it (Also, ignoring the number of fights where AoE attacks aren't relevant, like most bosses and elites) In the end, I still think that Wreath isn't THAT good. Since it requires drawing it on the same turn as a multi hit attack to be better than a Strike. 99.99% of the time, you'd probably be better off with an Empty Fist in your deck than Wreath outside maybe a run where you got/picked Ragnarok from Neow so you build around it from floor 1.
._. I have never even once taken a Cut Through Fate because it always seemed very meh as a Strike+ Today I learned, I'm just very meh at Slay the Spire.
I really rate Judgement a *lot* higher than D-Tier. Especially on the Act 1 Boss, if I flip a Judgement, against, say, a Master Reality and Conjure Blade, it's an easy pick, and it trivializes so many Act 2/3 Hallway fights. Birds? Just Judge one. Bird + Chosen One? You mean just Chosen One. Triple Jaw Wurms/Cultists? Make it Double. Sentinel/Sentry Orb? Just flatten it. And, most importantly, Gremlin Leader or Collector? Minion Nuke for 1. I'd put it B-Tier for sheer utility for cleaning one minion or enemy from so many fights.
Deva form doesn't synergize with fasting so much as it mitigates its drawback to a hilariously excessive degree. Almost everything else is just stuff that you would want in any run anyway. Deva Form and Snecko Eye, though...
it's just too slow. unless you have an energy engine of some kind in place, watcher doesn't get a ton of opportunities to play a 3 cost card without paying a price
Noob question, because I didn't get much from Frost's explanation: Why is Judgement not that good? Destroying everything between 30-40 HP for 1 energy seems really useful.
Yeah it's just a matter of consistency. 30 or 40 damage that ignores block and artifact for 1 energy is crazy, but if you draw judgement at the wrong time it's literally useless. It also doesn't synergize with anything that gives your attacks more damage since it's not an attack. It's an amazing card if you have Runic Pyramid though
Copying solely for my own use, but if this brings the list to the top for everyone else then great.
1:20:02 Final Tier List
0:50 Alpha (F Tier, $80 for A Tier 59:22)
2:17 Battle Hymn (D Tier)
3:23 Blasphemy (A Tier)
4:23 Bowling Bash (B Tier)
5:56 Brilliance (B Tier)
7:21 Carve Reality (D Tier)
8:18 Collect (A Tier)
9:48 Conclude (B Tier)
10:50 Conjure Blade (D Tier)
12:20 Consecrate (B Tier)
13:11 Crescendo (A Tier)
14:05 Crush Joints (A Tier)
15:07 Cut Through Fate (S Tier)
16:33 Deceive Reality (A Tier)
18:43 Defend (F Tier)
18:52 Deus Ex Machina (C Tier)
19:56 Deva Form (B Tier)
22:26 Devotion (C Tier)
24:24 Empty Body (B Tier)
25:13 Empty Fist (S Tier)
26:40 Empty Mind (A Tier)
27:17 Eruption (C Tier)
28:02 Establishment (A Tier)
30:27 Evaluate (C Tier)
32:21 Fasting (B Tier)
33:16 Fear No Evil (A Tier)
34:16 Flurry of Blows (S Tier)
35:14 Flying Sleeves (B Tier)
35:44 Follow-Up (A Tier)
36:39 Foreign Influence (C Tier)
37:26 Foresight (S Tier)
37:59 Halt (B Tier)
39:00 Indignation (A Tier)
39:34 Inner Peace (A Tier)
40:11 Judgement (D Tier)
41:04 Just Lucky (S Tier)
41:28 Lessons Learned (S Tier)
42:33 Like Water (C Tier)
43:18 Master Reality (F Tier)
44:45 Meditate (S Tier)
45:57 Mental Fortress (A Tier)
47:24 Nirvana (B Tier)
48:20 Omniscience (S Tier)
49:00 Perseverance (C Tier)
50:11 Pray (F Tier)
50:47 Pressure Points (F Tier, $40 for C Tier 53:48, $80 for PP Tier 56:20)
52:27 Prostrate (C Tier)
53:23 Protect (B Tier)
54:48 Ragnarok (C Tier)
57:09 Reach Heaven (C Tier)
58:43 Rushdown (S Tier)
59:35 Sanctity (B Tier)
1:00:35 Sands of Time (S Tier)
1:01:33 Sash Whip (B Tier)
1:02:24 Scrawl (S Tier)
1:03:03 Signature Move (F Tier)
1:03:45 Simmering Fury (A Tier)
1:04:14 Spirit Shield (B Tier)
1:05:21 Strike (D Tier)
1:06:03 Study (F Tier)
1:07:52 Swivel (C Tier)
1:09:03 Talk to the Hand (S Tier)
1:09:09 Tantrum (A Tier)
1:09:43 Third Eye (A Tier)
1:10:45 Tranquility (A Tier)
1:10:56 Vault (S Tier)
1:11:54 Vigilance (C Tier)
1:12:18 Wallop (B Tier)
1:12:59 Wave of the Hand (A Tier)
1:13:46 Weave (A Tier)
1:14:36 Wheel Kick (B Tier)
1:15:21 Windmill Strike (B Tier)
1:16:40 Wish (A Tier)
1:17:53 Worship (C Tier)
1:18:40 Wreath of Flame (D Tier)
legend
The Lord’s work! Thank you ❤️
You are the man 👊
Legends
Brah!
Man, based off this list Pressure Points seems like such a strong card! I should draft it in all my Watcher runs for sure.
Also ahould get Alpha, solid A-tier card. Pretty underrated
pressure point is essentially a snowball card, it takes a bit to get going but once it gets going it gets going
@@xyndraxyndra9645 but once it gets going, you're fecking ded
I only managed to get the Minimalist achievement because I took 2 pressure points!
It isn’t as good with some decks that run cards like Ragnarock or meteor strike. And you are hoping to have at least two that can snowball. But adding one in from second level up if you don’t have one isn’t always the good choice. Still solid if you can get two or three. Especially if upgraded. But enemy’s with artifact will block it. And they don’t scale on strength.
"If you replace all strikes with cut through fate, I don't see how you can lose a run."
Me: hold my winrate
Master Reality really should be a colorless card, or possibly even a universal relic. Every character has multiple cards that work with it and several other colorless cards do as well.
Hearing Frost somewhat snort in laughter nearly every time he hits the Beta Art button is so wholesome to me, the art is so funny and I always love seeing Frost's genuine enthusiasm for the game even after all this time.
1:20:02 Final Tier List
0:50 Alpha (F Tier, $80 for A Tier 59:22)
2:17 Battle Hymn (D Tier)
3:23 Blasphemy (A Tier)
4:23 Bowling Bash (B Tier)
5:56 Brilliance (B Tier)
7:21 Carve Reality (D Tier)
8:18 Collect (A Tier)
9:48 Conclude (B Tier)
10:50 Conjure Blade (D Tier)
12:20 Consecrate (B Tier)
13:11 Crescendo (A Tier)
14:05 Crush Joints (A Tier)
15:07 Cut Through Fate (S Tier)
16:33 Deceive Reality (A Tier)
18:43 Defend (F Tier)
18:52 Deus Ex Machina (C Tier)
19:56 Deva Form (B Tier)
22:26 Devotion (C Tier)
24:24 Empty Body (B Tier)
25:13 Empty Fist (S Tier)
26:40 Empty Mind (A Tier)
27:17 Eruption (C Tier)
28:02 Establishment (A Tier)
30:27 Evaluate (C Tier)
32:21 Fasting (B Tier)
33:16 Fear No Evil (A Tier)
34:16 Flurry of Blows (S Tier)
35:14 Flying Sleeves (B Tier)
35:44 Follow-Up (A Tier)
36:39 Foreign Influence (C Tier)
37:26 Foresight (S Tier)
37:59 Halt (B Tier)
39:00 Indignation (A Tier)
39:34 Inner Peace (A Tier)
40:11 Judgement (D Tier)
41:04 Just Lucky (S Tier)
41:28 Lessons Learned (S Tier)
42:33 Like Water (C Tier)
43:18 Master Reality (F Tier)
44:45 Meditate (S Tier)
45:57 Mental Fortress (A Tier)
47:24 Nirvana (B Tier)
48:20 Omniscience (S Tier)
49:00 Perseverance (C Tier)
50:11 Pray (F Tier)
50:47 Pressure Points (F Tier, $40 for C Tier 53:48, $80 for PP Tier 56:20)
52:27 Prostrate (C Tier)
53:23 Protect (B Tier)
54:48 Ragnarok (C Tier)
57:09 Reach Heaven (C Tier)
58:43 Rushdown (S Tier)
59:35 Sanctity (B Tier)
1:00:35 Sands of Time (S Tier)
1:01:33 Sash Whip (B Tier)
1:02:24 Scrawl (S Tier)
1:03:03 Signature Move (F Tier)
1:03:45 Simmering Fury (A Tier)
1:04:14 Spirit Shield (B Tier)
1:05:21 Strike (D Tier)
1:06:03 Study (F Tier)
1:07:52 Swivel (C Tier)
1:09:03 Talk to the Hand (S Tier)
1:09:09 Tantrum (A Tier)
1:09:43 Third Eye (A Tier)
1:10:45 Tranquility (A Tier)
1:10:56 Vault (S Tier)
1:11:54 Vigilance (C Tier)
1:12:18 Wallop (B Tier)
1:12:59 Wave of the Hand (A Tier)
1:13:46 Weave (A Tier)
1:14:36 Wheel Kick (B Tier)
1:15:21 Windmill Strike (B Tier)
1:16:40 Wish (A Tier)
1:17:53 Worship (C Tier)
1:18:40 Wreath of Flame (D Tier)
I love you bro
Thank youuuuuu
This needs to be at the top of the comments.
Please pin this FP.
I will be honest, I did not know that cut through fate was a common card. For some reason my brain always thought it was a uncommon since it's such a good card that can be found relatively easily.
All right all right. Hit me with your hot takes here. Which card did I get wrong? None of them? Correct.
I think you're wrong with all of them
I think the cards you undervalue are cause you don’t like the playstyle of how they synergize. Dues Ex Machina, Deva Form, Swivel, Ragnarok and Wheel Kick have great synergy with one another. Cause there is atleast two kinds of playstyles with the watcher, the quickly kill them before they kill you method with rapid form changes and lots of low damage cards, but these cards you undervalue are great on the watcher if you can defend enough to set up in one or two turns.(makes wish easier to pull off too)
The only thing I'd say is that you down played a bit how insight and scry go very very well together
Battle hymn good
Alpha is actually A tier, because I always draw Beta and then Omega exactly the turn after I play the previous one, and also I am averse to taking attacks and always take defense cards
I think I make my case!
I really hope their will be a 5th character eventually. I love new content especially in a game where with every new character they always have some crazy complicated new combos too explore.
Nope. They said they wouldn't
If you play on pc there are a plethora of modded characters to try out
@@brasil2907 I do but they are usually super over powered
@@colebagin2277 Hermit is a really good and balanced character. He's also extremely unique!
I like to play The Cursed sometimes, because even though he is practically a worse Ironclad, he can be fun with some (modded) curses; like Greed.
@@yasserkerbache unless they changed him since I played him ~1 year ago, hermit goes infinite extremely easily and I coasted from 1 to 20 ascension within a few days playing the same build
The guy who got pp moved next to prostrate is the real MVP
Deva Form? More like Fasting Enabler
How am I only now realizing that Wraith Form, Demon Form, Echo Form and Deva Form are meant to be a "series" of cards?
A "cycle" if you will
See also: Infernal Blade, Distraction, White Noise and Foreign Influence; and Double Tap, Burst, and Amplify (I don't think the Watcher has an analogous version of those cards unless I'm forgetting one)
@@elim9054 She has Omniscience. I dunno if that fits in with the rest tho.
@@Choccymilkshakeenjoyer it does, and it's literally in it's name. Ironclad can double attacks, silent can double skills, defect can double powers and watcher can double whatever the f she wants cuz she smort af.
"Flurry of blows. This was a card, it still is a card"
Only the highest quality commentary here
I think weave should be a little higher, I freaking love that card. It's super strong because if you scry it, you can discard it, then it immediately goes to your hand, so you draw it for free.
That's a very nifty synergy!
Eruption at C tier is insane to me. It’s one of the reasons why Watcher is so consistently powerful. The ability to steamroll Act 1 is just so important and it’s all thanks to Eruption.
honestly I've struggled w/the watcher for so long -- i took one major thing from this: SCRY SCRY SCRY.. and i'm breezing through ascension levels.. thanks! p.s. I just got 4 pressure points and the +2 hp relic when not taking cards.. i had well over 100 hp, nonstop pressure points, absolutely melted everything, haha. so fun
I really love seeing devotion when I already have damaru or vise versa like knowing I'll be able to go into divinity every 2-3 turns and also if I brilliance it's like icing on the cake
I just Frost to know that youtube and twitch are starved for STS content. Even if it's not beating the heart. Even if it's not the craziest run ever we'll watch it. Because we love you and STS. Daily uploads like NL does with the binding of isaac would be so amazing
RTGame actually just played STS, so maybe we'll see a bit more content around it.
So, watching this made me re-evaluate how i play the watcher. I just straight up couldn't figure her out for literally years, and she saty at ascension 1 while I'm at 11+ in every other class on _three different platforms_.
Now, I've just come off of a five-run winning streak, just because I figured out how to actually assess her cards.
You rock, man. Thanks for this great series!
Frost should do a strike+ tier list to tell us what the best strikes with better steps are
I think you’re underrating Judgement, taking it in act 1 or early act 2 wins those acts for you (though granted watcher doesn’t need much help), shutting down birds, sentries, orb, and slavers, and helps massively in every fight with multiple enemies.
Just take a flurry of blows instead, it's common and it scales
@@szelitzkyerick7456 sure but it doesn't deal 40dmg in a single draw and pierce shield
@@pvewaste how many enemies in the game have block? Also, it doesn't deal 40 damage in a single draw? No, it deals like 100 lol, if you build your deck right and know how to shuffle your discard pile properly, it's the highest damage attack COMMON in the game. Also you don't even have to draw it, you can scry it away and get it back when you change stances. Also did I mention it blocks for 60 in the meantime since talk to the hand exists?
All in all, a stance swapping watcher with a couple flurry of blows is by far the strongest fair deck in the game.
@@szelitzkyerick7456 sure, but that's reliant on lke 5 different rare cards to work, while judgement helps more in act 1/2 in a vacuum. And in the first place, I wasn't claiming Judgement was the best card ever, just underrated.
@@pvewaste tth uncommon, mental fortrrwss is uncommon, tantrum is uncommon.
I think if PP was a colorless card, it could be the only card with Marked and still be absolutely crazy good.
Great tier list! Glad to be able to accurately predict where a few would end up, but pleasantly surprised to learn a bunch more about this super unique character!
I've been struggling with the watcher a lot more than the other 3 characters, and now I know why. For the other characters, I generally avoided flooding my deck with too many commons, focusing on building around rares and uncommons. It seems like for Watcher, you actually want to pick up mostly commons instead because they're busted.
Update: I got home and won my first Watcher run using a deck with 6 pressure point cards and 2 alphas lol bless this video
@@heroponriki5921 W
I'm only 10 minutes into the video but i already want to say: isn't it EXTREMELY sad how most watcher rares are kinda shitty? like now he has rated 4 rares and they are in B, C, E and F tier.... that's sooo bad... and he's actually rating them right cuz those cards are just garbage
Pressure Points not being an attack to get the damage from Wrath really hinders it as well.
That does make it pair well with Like Water which encourages you to sit in calm anyways
My main issue with PP is that Watcher doesn't have amazing Artifact break. It's why I would put TttH in A tier too. Since there are a number of enemies/bosses that have Artifact which takes time for Watcher to get through. Since you're basically relying on Sash Whip and Crush Joints unless you get Wave on a good block turn.
Pressure Points is the most broken Card in the game by far.
If you survive the early game and get 2-3 PP's you just have to remove as much cards as possible and cycle through them infinitely. I often die or abandon in act 1 with PP, but its the combo that easily carried me to beat the heart at a20 for the first time.
The constant snickering about the beta art is curing my depression, man. Unlocked the watcher yesterday, after a week of finally learning to play this game (been in my backlog for years, because I thought I hated card games… I was wrong). What a cool character. Can’t wait to master this one. This video really helps! As did the defect one. Thanks, Frost, you rule!
You were wrong 👌
I like Deva Form because it lets me pick up (Also, use) more Fasting even if I don't get Pellets. Otherwise, it's like a poor man's Snecko Eye (Or a Snecko Eye I can use because Snecko hates me and just makes all my cards cost 3...)
we need to find a seeded run now with pandoras box giving you all cut through fates
I love Battle Hymn. A better strike guaranteed every turn so I can focus a little more on defence cards and stock-piling for divinity or wrath.
It also pairs fantastically with establishment, churning out 0 mana deal 12s on a 1 turn delay
Yeah, ranking it so low confused me. A single card, and now for the rest of combat, you have access to high damage 1 energy cards with no draw. For every round you spend not doing a lot of damage because you need to block, this one power is stockpiling damage for when you FINALLY draw your wrath card.
It's like one of the easiest cards to build around because it means you have less need to take damage cards and can focus on other cards. If you're making a divinity build, most builds are gonna be seeing at least 3 Smites before you finally change stances and nuke the fight.
If you play it and then play the smite next turn, that’s 2 cards 1 mana each for 12 damage total (over 2 turns). You can play 2 strikes as well. A lot of combats end in like 2-4 turns and you aren’t guaranteed to draw it turn 1 unless upgraded so it’s just meh
The watcher is the most fun character for me, the two most memorable runs are a Deva Form-Fasting deck, where I had two Deva forms and three fastings, which was incredible in elite and boss fights and the second run was a divinity deck where I got Mayhem+ from a shop and it was going great until I was fighting the heart and I had a Foresight running, so I discarded the last five cards in my deck, it reshuffled and Mayhem played Conclude, which lost me the run.
spinning top deva form and explunger. My favorite combo. Add Blasphemy and that extra turn spell and nothing lasts past 6 turns.
Oh its nice to see you doing well, remember watching when i was into league
There needs to be a separate "Bad but fun" tier because some cards are technically dogshit but are hilarious such as judgement
47:10 I think you meant overestimate, that people think they're going to change stances more than they really are so they overvalue this card
I'll have to wait an hour or so to watch but I will 100% leave a comment already because I have been waiting for the day this was uploaded so I can rewatch it a dozen times to cause the neural transmitters in my brain to overclock and fizzle out.
i think the devs just genuenly didnt know how to play her so they made her commons better than average to make her "playable"
I had a run with 2 omniscience and an upgraded alpha. Turn 1 alpha followed by omniscience let me play 2 omegas turn 1. I had just the right relics lol
I feel the mantra generating cards are being a little undervalued here, all you need are 2 upgraded prostrates and a pray and you’re entering divinity every deck cycle, and only spending 1 mana on it. You can definitely build a deck around divinity, but I think people underestimate how easy it is to build a divinity engine into other deck types with not a ton of resources committed
The way I see runic pyramid is that it doesn't target cards, it targets the mechanic of discarding directly.
As someone who’s new to the game, my first few runs with the watcher already made me realize how busted it is. I’ve got a lot of experience with deck builders and holy shit I was getting infinites in my first few wins with the watcher because of how powerful this character is.
In defense of Conjure Blade: while it's certainly not a card that you should build a deck around, I think it can be a spectacular secondary strategy when combined with wreath of flame. Especially if you're playing a deck that plays a lot of cards, like flurry, Conjure Blade can be a card to help get your through timekeeper or heart. It's not something you rely on, it's something you set up while doing your heavy stance swap bullshit
What I learned: cards that are slow in watcher are bad because watcher deals 1 mana 28 damage.
Any chance for a relic tier list? Or a colorless card tier list?
Not out of the cards
alpha should be in the OMEGA tier. I dont know where that tier would be ( spoiler it's above S) but it definitely needs it's own tier.
I honestly thought you'd never do this
Will there be a colourless card tiee list? Super interested in that! ❤️
Love how different this is compared to the guy with the world record winstreak
Don't have think anyone has mentioned this but I appreciated your troll-ass thumbnail.
Honestly, conjure blade is mega goated, especially if you get it with deva form and\or master reality
With watcher in general, if you stance dance or use divinity, you're generating a lot of energy and thanks to scry and things like meditate you can choose when to cash in big in making and using the expunger
Master reality bumps it from a 9x damage to 15x and it becomes worthwhile even if you invest just two energy in it, or one if it's upgraded
Was my trump card in my first ever heart kill!
I literally just rewatched the other three tier lists this week and was wondering when/if this one would come out
The production value on these videos is so good
My biggest issue with Deus ex Machina is that you can't use a card that let's you seek through your draw pile and grab it that way like omniscient, it doesn't proc the ability.
Listening to you give so much insights on how the game is supposed to be played. Man I have never had used Halt nor Indignation... I just won A14 with The Wather :D
Been waiting on this one, as a degenerate watcher player I am very excited
As a small brain sts player, how?
@@abridge2 its easy just take 15 pressure points and 3 judgements
@@abridge2 uh yes that is what I said
@@squintzrules7326 no you don't understand, i refuse to play the watcher because she doesnt play herself
@@abridge2 oh I see lmao, I feel like the watcher takes the biggest brain to learn but the smallest brain to play, just force yourself to play a stance switching or scry deck a bunch and you'll learn fast, trial by fire.
You’re hillarious mate, while providing high a quality infor thank you so much!
Quick question regarding the blaspemy if you have an artifact or pellets can you get rid of the die next turn or no just asking cause im not very informed on this game
Also if i could add does establishment work with the 16 block card you talked about on defect or no
The game considers blasphemy a buff so you can't counter it with artifact or pellets. The way it works is that if you have another turn after activating it you take something like 9999 damage at the start of the turn, which afaik can be negated the same as any other damage source with a buffer or intangibility.
@@elim9054 ty for informing me
I realize this is a year later, but I always want to point out that you need to end your turn with two intangible, because the damage is applied at the start of the next turn.
I just beat the heart as watcher for the first time. Thank you Andrew and Frost
I once made a build that I called ‘Your wish is yours to keep’. I think it started with Wish off losing all your gold and then I got Omniscience, upgraded both and managed to get another copy of both so omni into omni into wish and wish so I could do stuff like 24 strength.
I might be a couple years late but the watcher beta art goes hard af
I come from ygo and more aptly, mtg... it's hard to believe that people don't find COLLECT that useful. Mana ramp is ridiculous but yes, you have to draw into cheap resource cards or have expensive, op ones.
Good content. Thanks for doing the work for me 😅 ❤
>puts bash, a 2-energy card that gives x1.5 damage in S
>puts eruption, a potentially 1-energy card that gives double damage in B
Name checks out
Watcher has plenty of ways to get into Wrath (Crecendo, Tantrum and Simmering Fury) which do it easier and are cards you like to put into your deck even multiple times (Tantrum is a strong attack in of itself for example)
Ironchad doesn't really have that many good ways to give Vulnerable (Uppercut, Thunderclap and Shockwave) since they're kind of clunky (Uppercut only lasts 1 turn unless upgraded, Thunderclap only lasts 1 turn and Shockwave exhausts) and not really cards you'll put multiple of into your deck unless you're memeing with Sadistic Nature and Champion Belt.
@@tarille1043 Tantrum and Simmering Fury are both uncommon. Crescendo exhausts so you can't stancedance long with it, and you're not adding multiple of them to your deck. Eruption is guaranteed and always there for you. Also, most notably, it can get rid of its 2 energy cost. Bash is always clunky to play, but Eruption+ in calm straight-up generates mana.
I'm glad the graphic is back. Good job Andrew
Alpha has actually saved a lot of my watcher runs, I did have scrawl tho.
Is that the King of Heroes, The Watcher, using the Gate of Babylon? 10:55
I would put Conclude lower because I always want to be in a warth stance using that to double the damage, so it "force" you to take x2 damage on enemy turn, so you want to use this strategy only when enemy doesn't attack, which happen a real few time in this game..
Ive been waiting 4.. no.. 5 thousand years for this
The letter ‘r’ has never carried so much weight as it does on the 0 energy, mantra card that gives block.
Battle Hymn getting compared to Infinite Blades and thrown to D tier makes me sad lol, because it's one of my favourites. It's the one single card that supplies you with infinite amount of (almost) Empty Fist+ in terms of damage, for 1 mana. I usually take it on mid floor 1~floor 2 if I see it.
Also it's the biggest source of Retain cards. Has synergies with Establishment, Master Reality, Spirit Shield, Cloak Clasp. It's almost like those things were created around Battle Hymn.
It quickly requires you to use the cards it produces or your hand will get chunky. Like a couple other retain cards and then you go into a fight that doesn’t like cards played every turn like time eater and it stink :(
@@TheFrostPrime I don't think you've ever played a proper divinity deck. Battle hymn is easily most important divinity card. Its one of the best cards to run in them because it stacks your hand up with 36 damage strike+ that you play on your divinity turn. Wallhop is another core divinity card. 36 damage for 36 block. Its core block engine card for divinity decks. If your not using battle hymn, than your probably using Raknerok or Cut through Violence which are ok cards for divinity decks, Wheelhouse doing 60 damage can work as well. The main issue with other types of attacks is that Battle hymn is 1 card and it only costs 1 card "space". If you run other attack cards, you physically have to draw them and if its not turn you gain divinity, they're kinda dead turns in which you can die.
A power I think you undervalue is study+, putting insight in your deck is pretty good for divinity and Halt decks(Decks that stay in Wraith entire game). it allows shuffle through your deck. Again divinity decks are hard to make because they're like pressure point decks, you need get prostates, worship, devotion, the relic etc. but they're fun if you get right pieces. Like the water is another power I think you undervalue as Like the water is really good with Wave the hand, It gives weakness generation which is important for survival as weakness is % damage modifier to mitigating damage. I'd say Sash whip is also under-valued.
A card I think is overvalued in your tier-list is Wish. Wish is garbage in every possible way. Its only use is Omnipotence+ Wish, It gives 60 gold but it wastes a turn to use it, Its dead card in your deck at end of the turn and card giving gold is bad because your paying deck space for card removal which ALSO costs gold. F-tier. Playing Wish is also expensive. 3 cost is too high, even for watcher. It also wastes upgrade slots...in which you have very few campfires given how many other cards on watcher are good upgrades(Scrawl, Vault, so on).
@@dodang_9147 You've got way more Watcher to play , man. Divinity decks are worthless and Wish is the best card to get in a strong deck, by miles.
Tbh, one of my best runs was with pressure points. I somehow managed to draw 4 of them and basically replaced all my strikes. It was utter carnage. The damage dealing potential is crazy.
If two witchers were watching two watchers, which witcher would watch which watcher?
In 1995 i saw a woman being kidnapped in an alley and did nothing about it.
@@JBJGrandson based
Always love the content. You crack me up man
His pronunciation of Prostrate as Prostate is extremely cursed.
I... I genuinely thought the card was 'Prostate' and never questioned it... Frost has infected me...
In other non surprising news I am bad at words
-Andrew
Just got the best combo relics+cards thanks to your adivces! Thanks a bunch for this video!
So, we're getting a Colorless tier list, right?
Or even Relics
ah, it is time again to drop everything i am doing and watch one hour and twenty minutes of pure POGGY CONTENT
watcher has god tier beta art
I just started playing less than a week ago so inexperience might be talking, but I disagree HARD on Battle Hymn. I think the card is B+ - A tier.
You get a reliable 1 energy attack that hits twice as hard as a strike, 24 damage in wrath mode, and the retain let's you hang on to them for a couple turns, setting up your calm and perhaps a vulnerable or something, so that turn 3-4 you can just nuke everything. Upgrading is alright but 2 per turn is cutting into your energy allotment and hand size limit too much imo. But I will gladly take an early battle hymn and basically remove every other attack, grab all the stance changes I can, and combo my way up to lethal in 1-3 turns even for harder fights like solo elites.
Master Reality is good in EXACTLY one situation and that is with dead branch...which watcher doesn't even really like all that much anyways
I am always happy to draw a Reach Heaven late in my runs, because then I tab out of the game and check if there's been a KSBD update. Speaking of...
deceive reality and safety is the exact block as an upgraded protect, so based
That's hilarious that anyone in chat can spend $20 to move any card up a tier.
Just discovered this guy and I like him.
Nirvana+Just Lucky
Enough said
Also Weave
Absolutely cracked, Weave+Just Lucky
Already watched the stream but back here to pog up andrew.
Only things I'd say is badly ranked is Carve reality, Wreath of flames and *maybe* Battle hymn.
~Wreath of flames
Tantrum. Tanrtum is an A rank card that, you will want in your deck that, When upgraded, Synergises with Wreath way better than Ragnorok. Just Wreath alone, To use your own saying, is 20(5x4) damage 1 mana; 40 if in wrath and then when upgraded 32 damage(8x4) 1 mana; 64 in wrath. Thats Nuts, and very likely to happen due to Tantrum's Shuffle.
Even if its 2 energy for that, it can be set up like stances since both Wrath and Stances retain between turns. It's not an insane combo or anything, but its one worth putting in the C for Cituational Rank.
~Carve and Battle Hymn
I understand Empty fist being amazing, but your, not always gonna have it. Despite the watcher having leathal, they still are a set up character for Wrath + attacks.
Carve reality is a small attack that lets you always have an decent Attack to use when you get into Wrath, that on its own is a great thing to have. A battle Hymn can funtion in a similar way but for Longer periods, which has positives and negatives.
The issue with Wreath is it's spending 1 mana to do nothing initially. Unless you're likely to draw into (Or have in hand) Tantrum or Ragnarok and maybe Flying Sleeves which are Watchers only 3 multi-hit attacks it feels underwhelming. If it was an Ironchad card it'd be much better since he gets a plethora of multi-hit attacks and Barricade lets him stall out and wait for cards.
Carve has the unfortunate thing of the base card is just a Strike. Why would you want to put just a Strike INTO your deck when you could just pick a card that is Strike+ already? The payoff of getting a Strike+ to hold in your hand isn't worth it when Watcher has so many good Strike+ cards.
Battle Hymn's issue is just how it clogs up your hand which has huge anti-synergy with so many other things like good retain cards, Collect, Rushdown, Simmering Fury, Deus Ex Machina, Runic Pyramid and basically all card draw. If you have Establishment already then it's a little better because then you can just toss out some 0 mana Strike+ to empty your hand (Or alternatively instead of having these 2 mediocre cards, run 2 cards that give Watcher Lethal)
@@tarille1043 Mostly agree, but...
Battle hymn is exactly that, can turn into a problem.
Carve, Being a contolled version helps. I feel the Retain of a good Strike+ is worth more than most are giving it, Early Hallway fights/elites it may not be too good, but I can be good to have for the beefier boys mid Act 2 and beyond. Benifits off alot of Set up deck types like Simmering fury, Divinity Decks (especially blasphemy wanting to ensure a kill) or establishment.
Wreath works because of the draw and Scy control to get what you want, and like i said Tantrum is a card you almost always want and shuffles to have in draw alot. Youll already have a piece of the puzzles, Wreath just amplifies it like crazy. Plus It's a skill, its not meant to have an immediate effect, comparing that point, Swivel is more situational for a higher cost and thats in C Rank where Wrath also deserves to be.
@@alphax-shroom6781 Swivel gives block. Wreath gives nothing.
Swivel hitting any random 1 cost attack is basically 1 energy for 8/11 block which is Defend++
Wreath hitting any random 1 cost attack is 1 energy for a worse Strike (As it only deals 5/8 damage instead of Strike's 6/9). That's why Wreath NEEDS to hit multi-hit attacks to be worthwhile.
While sure, Tantrum is A tier, you don't always draw it properly and you have to consider is adding this card and then trying to play around it by scrying a bunch to line up Wreath into Tantrum really worth it? Especially when Tantrum+ already just hits like a truck and will wreck all hallway fights as is?
@@tarille1043 don't forget (he also forgot to take note of in the video) that aoe cards such as consecrate also multiply the damage from wreath.
(Also bowling bash is another multi attack card)
@@manflutewarrior Though, Watcher doesn't have many AoE attacks (Literally, just Consecrate and Conclude) to get good use from it (Also, ignoring the number of fights where AoE attacks aren't relevant, like most bosses and elites)
In the end, I still think that Wreath isn't THAT good. Since it requires drawing it on the same turn as a multi hit attack to be better than a Strike.
99.99% of the time, you'd probably be better off with an Empty Fist in your deck than Wreath outside maybe a run where you got/picked Ragnarok from Neow so you build around it from floor 1.
._. I have never even once taken a Cut Through Fate because it always seemed very meh as a Strike+
Today I learned, I'm just very meh at Slay the Spire.
He finally did it, Watcher mains rejoice!
What would a safety version of Battle Hymm be ranked? Even if the block is decreased to 8~9 I’d find it handy to make sure I always the block I need.
Rushdown and Mental Fortress are S tier because those two cards in a halfway competent stance deck just win the game for you and they're not even rare
I’ve no clue why but as soon as I say the thumbnail the phrase “Hmm actually” came to my mind
Why hasn't Frost done a tier list for the potions yet?
I really rate Judgement a *lot* higher than D-Tier. Especially on the Act 1 Boss, if I flip a Judgement, against, say, a Master Reality and Conjure Blade, it's an easy pick, and it trivializes so many Act 2/3 Hallway fights. Birds? Just Judge one. Bird + Chosen One? You mean just Chosen One. Triple Jaw Wurms/Cultists? Make it Double. Sentinel/Sentry Orb? Just flatten it. And, most importantly, Gremlin Leader or Collector? Minion Nuke for 1. I'd put it B-Tier for sheer utility for cleaning one minion or enemy from so many fights.
First time watching your channel, great style man.
Is Bill Burr your dad by any chance?
the long awaited content from the poggy streamer
Wreath in a signature move deck though? Is really good screenshot when an attack card does 9000 damage
I'm assuming there will be a colorless tier list at some point?
Also Through Violence is SS tier bc it references Kill Six Billion Demons. No I'm not biased why do you ask
strongly disagree with deva form, has so much synergy with omniscience, fasting, card draw and literally any X cost card
Deva form doesn't synergize with fasting so much as it mitigates its drawback to a hilariously excessive degree. Almost everything else is just stuff that you would want in any run anyway.
Deva Form and Snecko Eye, though...
it's just too slow. unless you have an energy engine of some kind in place, watcher doesn't get a ton of opportunities to play a 3 cost card without paying a price
Noob question, because I didn't get much from Frost's explanation: Why is Judgement not that good? Destroying everything between 30-40 HP for 1 energy seems really useful.
I think just because it's situational? Like, if you're against a boss that doesn't have minions it's gonna be dead in hand for most of the fight
Yeah it's just a matter of consistency. 30 or 40 damage that ignores block and artifact for 1 energy is crazy, but if you draw judgement at the wrong time it's literally useless. It also doesn't synergize with anything that gives your attacks more damage since it's not an attack. It's an amazing card if you have Runic Pyramid though
the reason most people value it pretty low is because it doesn't help you with the only thing that watcher really struggles with: killing bosses
Soooooo when's the beta art tier list coming?
is there a copy somewhere I can get a pdf of the list?