"Old School VS New School Arrow Thoughts" MFJJ x Tim Connor
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- MFJJ and Tim Connor sit down and chat about many things archery including arrow spine, draw length, and old school arrow thoughts like cutting long arrows. #archery #podcast
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Tell mfjj just called the pro shop. I LAUGHED at his option 3😂😂😂😂 “to complain about a UA-cam video please press 3”
Need to have a VM section of the podcast where they air the best ones or answer questions that way.
@@johnjordan9945this is a great idea
Hahaha
Slo Mo Camera Idea: Shoot different spines out of the same bow to see flex and recovery time.
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noted!
I've got 15.5 feet .feel your pain .darn tough will not fit !!
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Slow mo idea: Arrow flex upon IMPACT on bone, for various arrow spines and broadheads.
I would like to hear MFJJ's thoughts on aligning 3 blade fixed broadheads with the fletchings. Does it make a difference for how easily the vanes come through the hide for a pass through? Would also be cool to see various blade vs vane alignments in slo-mo. Maybe an offset would be best to account for arrow rotation and having the vanes exposed to less disturbed air in flight?
It is only a guess, but given the separation of the front and rear (head and vanes) the aero effects of aligning them should be minimal, especially given that the best flight seems to come from longer offset or helical fletches (which should eliminate alignment benefits ? Surely you would want both to be straight if alignment was beneficial ?). It is only a guess but no one makes helical broadheads ?! I would guess that if this were a thing then there would be potential benefits of aligning and matching the spin rate of the blade to the fletch ! It sounds like a potential final year project for degree students to examine and analyze !
@@colingregory7464 I tend to agree and I definitely see the best field point arrow flight with a helical fletch. I know some fixed blades like the Muzzy Trocars do have a blade offset to help enhance arrow rotation, just gotta make sure it is in the right direction. The slo-mo idea was to essentially see if there is an optimal orientation for the vanes to still catch the air as needed but also to see if it is possible to have them follow the blades in the animal to avoid the vanes catching on the far side hide. Maybe we will see Kyle Davidson in this space in a few years haha.
4:26 DARN TOUGH is great. They also make a size 15 sock that actually fits.
Sincerely,
size 15 wide
Noted!
@@JoshandTimthey are also lifetime warranty if the elastic wears out or holes send them back for replacements.
They didn't fit .they said size 15 .nope
Just a heads up. Black Eagle actually has their spine charts that show what arrow you should use for a 150+, 200+ and 250+ grain tips.... that has taken all the guess work out of choosing the correct spine for me.
I would love to see a close up of the rest with the high speed camera! Does a drop away really matter? I've seen slow mo shots off a recurve where the arrow jumps off the rest right at release. Just curious.
That would be interesting to see indeed.
I feel like we experienced the slow progression of tim's weed brownie kicking in by minute 50. In the last 2 mins he started referring to the website as a dealership and I'm here for it.
The intrusive thoughts of him with that fan is killing me. 😂
Bro this is the best pod out next to JRE. I love everything about it. You guys rock stay motivated!!!
The way my 76 year old dad hold his bow makes him susceptible to cutting his fingers on his broadheads. 50 years of doing it that way. I never could get him to stop.
The crispi merino socks are my go to for warm weather over some of the more popular brands too
It would be super cool to see a slowmo Schlieren video of arrows in flight and releasing the arrow from the bow. For people who don't know, Schlieren photography shows pressure differences in air, so you can see turbulence and the aerodynamics.
6:52 Saxx make awesome briefs too. They're just expensive as well.
Darn tough for the win, lifetime warranty and comfortable
I enjoy these discussions. I'm a Pennsylvania whitetail hunter and a few years back was up to 575 grain arrow weight. I've dropped to 490 while keeping a good penetrating broadhead and still had spectacular results. This year I'm dropping to around 450 grains and expect the same. For the last few years I've been cutting my arrows the same as you are recommending. 1.5" - 2" shorter than my draw length.
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You want momentum. A shorter arrow goes through better than a longer but there is always factors.
Especially if mechanical is in discussions.
450 fixed with a good head and 15-20 percent FOC will and should pass through everything. However if you notice that you are not passing through you may want to go back up to 490 or even 500s 575 for most compound bows of lighter draw weights is entering diminishing returns. Ideally you always want to be as heavy as you can with a trajectory you are happy with this is your perfect setup for every large game.
@@chrisruzsa2798 I shoot 70# at 30" and a 2 blade fixed head or 1.5" mechanical. Plenty of momentum.
@@genehalteman882 it’s not with a 450. You may still kill you might sometimes pass through but no for the fixed sure but not on the mechanical. But hey youtube is filled with deflections on broadheads and perfect shots. I personally recommend 500s for mechanicals. But hey hopefully you are always successful and pass through the deer.
@@chrisruzsa2798 Lol. I'm not a newbie. 450 with my specs and the mechanical I chose will be plenty.
@@chrisruzsa2798hunting for 50 years. Shot numerous whitetail in PA with arrow weights from 420 to 510 grain with fixed and mechanicals. 29 in draw, 70 lb bows. Currently shooting around 450. Have had only one instance of insufficient penetration and it was bad shot placement. I’d suggest everyone shoot what you want but develop accuracy. This debate on arrow weight on the internet is fun to watch but it really doesn’t matter in the whitetail woods.
For the longest time, i was shooting a mathews heli-m at 55 pounds 29 inches with a 420 grain arrow and never had penetration issues. Pass-throughs every time on whitetail within 40 yards. Just upgraded to a bowtech carbone one x at 70# 30" with a 450 grain arrow at 294 fps. I cant imagine having any issues with the arrow bouncing off an animal
I want to see slo-mo of arrow spine alignment. Namely the difference between having the weak spine on top vs on bottom with a drop away rest.
31" draw shooting 300 spine RIP XV at 411gr with 17.3 FOC. Can't wait to deflate some lungs! Thanks for the guidance
What components are you using?
can you do test comparison when and where arrows break based on the components used? ie collar vs no collar, hiit insert vs outserts. stuff like that.
Darn tough ftw! 🙌🏽 430 - 420 arrow weight!
Look forward to the Pod every Monday. Thanks for the knowledge. I shoot a 60lb Mathews V3 arrows are 26.5 with 150 grs up front 420 grs total 400 spine and I get them to tune properly. Arrow flight seems consistent out to 50 yds. From today’s conversation I guess I’m underspined. What do you guys think?
I've started to think of this conversation like this: Broadhead is the focus; arrows, vanes and nock are the vessel that delivers it to the target. Spine, speed, FOC and tune is how you deliver it accurately. Obviously some weight is required beyond the 100-125 grain weight of the broadhead alone, but I agree weight should be added in non gpi forms.
Also, I think it would be cool to hear about some low poundage/short draw length set ups. My sons current set up is Bear Cruzer G2, 23" draw length, 35# draw weight(trying to get to 40 for november whitetail). Arrow set up is 25", 297gn 12.5% FOC. I know i could shorten his arrows quite a bit but he shoots 4H and is constantly growing. I've settled on 100gn ViperTricks for now because they shoot well and seem sharp and good angle to penetrate(I might experiment on how they fly without the "bleeders" installed and have them use in the config.). Do you have any better suggestions? Our whitetail hunting will be 30yds or less out of a blind with flat shooting angles, but I would like to know what your thoughts are because we will also chase muleys, antelope and elk. My wife and son are both short draw length, low poundage. I know it gets talked about here and there but some more specific build ideas would be appreciated.
Solid convo guys, ya I been running 420 grain arrow with a 3 blade QAD exodus, and have had great arrow performance never an issue with penitration, have shot bear,deer elk and moose all with the same arrow all great performance nd no issues with arrow only being 420
✊✊
@JoshandTim ya man I'd say it's atleast a decade now with over 30 archery kills with that arrow 👌
Same
Slo mo camera idea; I noticed in that gold tip/swhacker LRP video the amount of flex difference between broadheads tested. I would be interested to see the difference in flex, which I would believe would be energy loss in a 4mm, between a collar type setup, a titanium half out and various broadheads. I would be interested to see if a Sevr on top of a half out flexed less than say a QAD Exodus that sits further back vs a single bevel like a Kudu.
Be cool if you guys did a pod on the differences between crossbow and compound bow. Differences in like arrow weight, powerstroke and draw weight. Would be cool 😎
Can y'all cover arrow weight vs speed. Is there a such thing as too fast or where is the line for diminished returns? How does speed affect accuracy etc..
My Kenetrek wool socks are excellent, been wearing them for 3 years. And yes I have 2 pairs of there boots. 3 trips to Colorado wilderness backpack hunts and preformed beyond expectations!!
Yep, Darn Tough merino wool socks are bomb proof! No merino wool boxers for me. They never dry out. Huk performance boxers from the fishing industry work well for me. My Arrow - X-Impact 350, Iron Will Snyder Core and Impact Collar (185gr), 4 fletch (I know!) AAE Max 23. Total arrow weight 414gr, 19% FOC. My bow - Mathews Lift 29.5, 60 lbs, 27". I'm very happy with this arrow build.
slo mo idea 1. bare shaft turning rt with left fletch or vice versa to look at recovery and point of impact change vs left bare shaft with left fletch or vice versa 2. fixed blade broadhead flight recovery with 3 fletch off set, 3 fletch helical, 4 fletch offset
You're lucky your feet stopped at 15s, I'm also 6'5 and got stuck with 17s. No one makes an actual hunting boot besides bogs past 16 😢. The best daily socks I've found were surprisingly the xxl snap on brand socks off the tool truck
Thank you Josh and Tim great information
God's Blessings on all your adventures
I've found that arrows are more tolerant to weight up front the shorter they are. A 28" arrow might need a change of over 75 grains before being too weak, whereas a 31" arrow might need less than 50 grains. The same is true for spine; stiffer spines have greater gaps between them than weaker spines. It might take 75-100 grains to go from 250 - 200 whereas it might be 50 grains to go from 350 - 400.
I'm at like 525gr, 20% foc (X-Impact.300, focos ss + 20gr, IW SB125, tac driver 4-fletch) at 275fps at 67# actual on a 65# Evoke 31 at 29.5" DL. Whitetail setup, so no shots over 40-45y, so almost no extra pin spacing. The big reason ive kept with this setup is that both the arrow and the bow are quiet enough that I haven't had any real reaction unless it's one of those super silent, wet foggy mornings. They'll be standing there working a scrape or walking/browsing, and the arrow goes through them. They jump, do a quick circle, and go back to the impact location to see what bee stung them, then calmly walk off and fall over.
@4:50
Word of the day: taboo
Adjective: prohibited or restricted by social custom
The long Black Ovis merino boxer briefs are super comfortable. Not the most durable BUT they have an outstanding warranty on their branded apparel. Also Farm to Feet socks
Interested to hear what MFJJ has to say about us recurve guys. I shoot a heavy arrow because if my point on is too far away it's hard to be accurate. If my point on is 30ish I hold under the belly at 25 and a little under at 20 makes aiming at hunting distances easier. If my point on is closer to 40 (or god forbid further) I end up holding at the ground at 20.
Hi Boys. Love the podcast, keep up the great job. As for the camera idea, I would love to see a re-test of the Levi Morgan fletch spin test from MFJJ. What's the real truth in fetching arrows? Thank again for all your hard work. 👍
I think a test with fletching penetration would be awesome! Maybe like ballistic gel which I know isn’t the same thing as a animal but maybe cut 6inch of gel off cause all Broadheads will go that far and put some real hide in front of it to help and see which vanes make it through and which don’t! I think it would show how much vanes do cause an issue! I’d also shoot it at 30 yards or 40 cause no one is killing an animal at 3 feet! Gives the arrow time to slow down. I think it be really cool test if y’all come up with one just my thought on a test.
Hey guys I’m shooting a lift 29.5 at a 25” draw. 67# Easton sonic 400 spine with 150 upfront. Arrows fly great field points and broadheads. But after watching this I’m curious if I should stiffen the spine up a bit. It shoots bullet holes and flys good…. Should I try a stiffer shaft and see if it shoots and flys even better? Thanks yall
Arrow vs arrow -> heavy core vs heavy head at the impact slow-mo
Thx for the great educational content guys! 👌
Great information, thanks
It'd be nice if the number on a module matched the actual draw length of the bow. A lot of manufacturers run half inch long. I'm about a 29.25 draw length. To get that on my Mathews I shoot off the riser with a 28.5 mod.
"Tuned way inside" lol, perfectly describes my 2008 82nd Airborne that I am still shooting and with no way to tune via the cams the only way to tune(other than syncing the cams), is rest and nocking point. My arrow rest is as close to the riser as you can get, to get it to shoot bullet holes. Also, peek over your shoulders more often and look at that stove, that thing needed a touch more air!
Saxx for boxer briefs is the only way to go. Especially the highly breathable poly ones. I walk fields as a crop consultant from April till September and these hold up and protect my boys.
Also I think the word you were looking for is taboo.
Yes and yes
I shot at a doe and missed last season, but the arrow buried the broadhead in a tree - all 1.5" of the 3 blades. This was a .300 spine Victory RIP XV Elite shot from my tuned Bowtech Destroyer 350 going 285 fps, and the arrow was perfectly fine. I just unscrewed the shaft from the head and put on a new one. Total arrow weight for this arrow was 380 grains. I still blow through deer with this light an arrow.
Shoot left helical with a bow that clocks right and right helical that clocks left to see the knuckle ball effect that happens in the air or something similar to that. Thanks for the great content as well as the discount code on your website (my wife hates it because i spend too much damn money) lol. Keep pushing the videos!!!
Best briefs ive ever tried and wear to this day, every day is a Canadian company called “Bn3th”as a road mechanic in a uniform all day shirt tucked and moving around walking a ton its the only ones ive been insanely happy with. The classic boxer brief is the one you want and the solid colors are even softer than the printed by a hair…they run half off sales all the time too
I think TAC is driving a lot of the arrow sales and why people are trying and using lighter GPI arrows. Combined with the push for more FOC, seems like the trend
Hey I’m Brad and I have an archery problem..Hoyt Torrex XT Long Draw @30in draw, Easton 6.5 mm classic Hunter cut @30.5 inch,20 grain lumenok “swapped stock batteries for lighter ones” 50grain hit insert, 3AAE Max Stealth, in the quiver 3 100 grain Sevr titanium 1.75” and 1 Sik F3. 487 Grains chronograph says 290.
I’d like to see slow mo of the drop away arrow rest for how long the arrow contacts it during launch.
DARN TOUGH socks. My wife bought me one pair of their running socks for Christmas that I run in every week. Probably put 200 miles into one pair. They are padded, they wick, they are solid. They look almost new. Not kidding, they are the best.
MFJJ Darn tough are an awesome choice for someone with a size 15 I also use Hanes and they are awesome too. I feel your pain UA also makes some socks in xl. Great videos love the content. I very interested in the draw length issue. How do you calculate someone’s draw length? And How do you take an 1.5 inches off your arrows? I am a northeast hunter so white tail mainly but want to improve my archery skills.
Try the long armochillo underwear. From duluth.
Just discovered these this last Christmas. Way better than their buck naked boxer briefs. The standard Armachillos are great. Don't get the Armachillo Bullpens.
~ 23min... Would love to see a tech breakdown of overdraw systems for (extreme )long draw archers to get shorter arrows. I'm a 33.5in draw and about to put a hamskea overdraw bracket on my Mathews Atlas so I can actually cut my arrows and try to get to a 250 spine arrow from my current full length 200 spine gt kaos. Its a fringe use case thats probably not necessary for 99% of people but the 6.5+ archer community would really appreciate it
I do Farm 2 Feet as my daily socks and Black Ovis Cirrus for boxers. Same type thing I want to be able to hop to workout faster.
I settled on a 475 grain axis 340 with 50 grain insert and 125 grain head. 61lbs 29.5 lift 260 fps.
I would really like you to do a test of the fastest, roughest drawing bow against the smoothest, slower bow you have.
BUT . . . You have to turn the faster bow down in poundage until it shoots the same speed as the "smoother" bow.
I suspect that people who want the "smoother" bow could get the slower arrow speed they are basically asking for, just by turning the poundage down.
Great video, do some slow motion testing on pork spare ribs not too expensive and actual meat and bone I especially want to see the impact of different vanes and the resistance of each
How are the nodes of the arrow affected by length of the arrow/ node and spine relationships
I would like to see if there is a difference in arrow flex between two of the same broad heads, or field points, in their lighter 100gr variant with a heavy insert or the heavier 150-200gr variant with a lighter/standard weight insert. So does the weight being forward of the end of the shaft make it flex more than if the weight is in the insert/inside the arrow.
Minnesota guy here. Was talked out of a set of gas strings for the same price as vapor trail archery “as vapor trail is local for us” what do you guys know? My shop thinks vapor trail is just as good.
SLO MO different spine arrows impacting a variety of media (soft vs hard) with ballistic gel behind to help measure penetration. Give a twenty yard standoff to give the arrow a chance to stabilize. The goal is to see how much arrow deflection hinders penetration. Compare manufacturers spine charts to your findings since they probably don’t consider impact deflection as much as poundage at launch
String movement from face pressure, slow mo camera idea
Would love MFJJ to do a video on all arrow brands that make stiffer arrows that have a similar GPI as their less stiff arrows.
it would be cool to see/test the right vs left helical!!!
Throw ezv sights on bows and see who can shoot 3D the best!!! I want to hear your opinions on that product somethin terrible lol keep up the great content though. P.S. darn tough ftw (dtftw)
Duluth makes my favorite underwear too
We’ve heard good things
"sky dive naked from a narrow plane" 😂
I understand that cutting 2 GPI would be insane for some arrows to get as light as possible. But to your point on people focusing on weight, aren't we also limited on bow manufacturers saying it is unsafe to use an arrow that is less than 5 GPI per pound?
A Day Six Evo Broadhead review, would be money….👊🏻
A video of lightest arrow build to hunt white tail to Elk!
JJ you brought up the gold on this topic. Your broadhead determines what you want to have. A mechanical needs momentum 500 plus works great you get passthroughs.
Fixed can get away being under 500s. But for perfect confidence and to pass through I find heavy as you can and get it flying perfect is best.
I would argue that it depends on your application. I get pass through on Midwest white tails with mechanical (Sevr) with less that 500gr
@@scottsiebert6653 on a perfect shot everything works 💯 without a doubt. But animals move and less than ideal shots happen. For whatever reason I am not saying mechanicals can’t pass through or kill with less than 500 grains. But it’s without a doubt that momentum will increase every shot that much more.
You hit bone less than 500 stops.
The animal was a little more angled than you though now the arrow completely deflects. It’s filled all over UA-cam and in reports that arrows are not overly effective. And no one is using 500 plus grains when these less than ideals happen.
People can argue it all they would like. I will trust a 30 year study and make as many factors fit to give me the best setup I can get.
No one has a 30 year report of light working. I am sorry but less than 500 is just asking for trouble when things go wrong.
@@chrisruzsa2798 I have never shot a 500gr arrow. I also have been hunting for 30 years. 28 years of harvesting at least 1 deer. You should shoot what gives YOU confidence, and that’s all that matters
@@scottsiebert6653 well you should because 500-600 is hunting weight and proper hunting weight less than 500 is target weight. You should also teach other archers this fact too so we can grow and get away from our negative stereotypes. Maybe even er recognized in yo UK and Europe and b allowed to bow hunt there too. Under 500 grains is an extremely low success rate you can’t possibly argue and deny this.
Yes yes I know not a single one of your kind ever miss or never not get a pass through or always kill every critter they hit. Too bad the reports do not build a 💯 success rate….::
@@chrisruzsa2798 again, like in Golf. You have to shoot YOUR shot and or play YOUR game. NOT someone else’s.
Sheath boxer briefs I thought they were a gimmick but I like them
I must be the odd man out…shooting 368g. Moving at just under 300fps…im shooting 60lbs.
Would guess the point weight effect would be a percentage change rather than a specific weight change at all lengths ?
Partly because the wrong bow got bought, I started out at 30.5 and am currently at 27.75, with a small allowance for a change from fingers to release (I keep threatening to set up a finger setup to play with)
From what I vaguely think I remember ! Does the weight and change of weight at the back not have a greater effect than a similar change to the front weight, so you could potentially use a light shaft and a heavy point and change the back weight ("pin" weight to micro tune the spine ? Threaded insert for the pin in the pin housing ? and different weight or adjustable weight pin inserts that can be screwed in and out to change tune or replace a bent pin, instead of needing to remove and glue in a new pin ?, small torx bit for change)
Slo-mo ? How much are risers flexing, how much are limbs flexing, how low are strings travelling inside brace and with what effect ? With and without string stop ? Was told the string stop position and the change of string stop position had a huge impact on groups and impact point !
As someone with size 14 feet I know exactly what you are talking about when you say it is hard to find big socks that actually fit your feet
Man that setup looks comfy.
You want vanes to fold down to maximize penetration... but stiff vanes are quieter and steer better...
Hands down best wool socks I’ve ever had are the Kirkland wool socks. I have about 20 pairs I’ve worn daily for everything between everyday life and hunting, and I’ll never switch. They last forever too.
First nirvana shirt then Metallica nice I dig it man God bless piece out
In the Victory arrow line, what is the difference between the 3DHV vs RIP XV?
3dhv comes with bushings for nocks
Darn tough socks got the lifetime warranty
I use 350 rip #62 125g micro Hades at like 28" for ma whitetails
Will podium cut the arrows custom if ordered from the website?
Yeah you will get there I believe it!!!
Buck naked deluth boxers and hollow socks are A+.
I watch your videos every week. Every week I have to resubscribe. Same thing with Tim's channel. I don't have this problem with any other of my channels. I don't know if youtube is messing with me or your channels. Thought you might be interested.
10 4
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Single bevel is best for thick bone period, there is no question. The heavier the arrow with as much weight up front is the best for penetration period, once again theres no debate. Shoot whatever the fuck you want as long as your arrow flight is perfect. I shoot 503 grains, 200 up front with a single bevel ironwill. Ive cut whitetail shoulder balls in half. But if people want to shoot 400 grains with some mechanical then go ahead
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Honestly the Reebok anti-microbial underwear is amazing
Kinetic energy is the mass of an object (arrow weight) times the square of its velocity. The best penetration you can possibly get is the heaviest arrow that you can get up to speed. A 700 grain arrow at 180 fps will not penetrate as well as a 400 grain arrow at 300 fps. I have zero patience for the super heavy arrow argument from the folks that don’t understand the math.
You’re technically accurate. But I did some math. A bow that shoots a 400 grain arrow at 290+ fps will also shoot a 700 grain arrow at over 200 fps. And when shot out of the same bow, the 700 grain arrow will actually have more kinetic energy and momentum than the 400.
I’m a middle of the road kinda guy, so I don’t care which arrow someone shoots as long as it’s appropriate for the animal they hunt.
What about mamba? I've been in contact with them.
Awesome job guys
Yea I have a 15 to great content God bless ttyl
Anyone have experience the dca minis with a fixed blade?
My last name is Culpepper. You’re not talking about me are you 😂
Do tall vanes stop lighter arrows easier!?? 😂😬
Fox River are the best wool socks of all time.