Pro Photographers: You NEED a Degree to Be One!
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2022
- There are so many videos telling you why you don't need to go to college or to get a degree to be a professional photographer. All of which are correct, but they are missing some key aspects to the importance of getting any degree as a professional photographer.
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I'm a photographer with a degree. And while you can definitely become a professional photographer without one, I can't stand when people write off the idea of going to school for photography. The amount of structure, connections, and quick learning that happened was the best thing for me. If you don't want to go to school for it, don't. It's silly to write off people who do.
Totaly agree..! 😊👍💪
I am 58. I went to a two-year college in my 20's, I couldn't afford University. It did teach me how to study, learn, and how to think properly. I still love learning new things, and while I'm working hard to improve my Photography skills, I am also involved in other endeavors since I just like to take all of life and its curiosities. I don't need to make money from photography but I love the challenge and it is satisfying to succeed.
As someone who left school with nothing and now at the ripe age of 32 I am in a well paid job, own a house, married etc - I disagree about having to go to University to get those life lessons. I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do until I was 27...then studied (certifications etc) to get into that industry. Hard work is key, learning from your mistakes and improving yourself is what I believe in.
I think the message behind what you're saying is stronger. You need to fail, learn from it and then go again. I think forcing people into a box of "you must go to University to be successful" sets people up to fail at something, that costs a crap ton of money, or be miserable.
Either way, it's your opinion and there are lots of others who went down your route and done well, so its not wrong. Thanks agian for talking about an interesting topic.
I have a few years on you and totally agree. I feel he is mixing up life experience with attending Uni and getting "degrees". You can still be a tw@t, not go to Uni, enter the real world and end up growing and be successful in a business. As long as your are willing to listen and learn. That's the key to growth. In my line of work some of the dumbest people I have met are graduates.
No offense, but shitty advice, just because it worked for you doesn't mean it'll work for everyone else. LeBron went to the NBA right out of high school. So some people can say "WELLLL he didn't go to college for basketball so I won't either" and never make it in the industry. Take your bias advice and don't give it to the general public and stop trying to flex.
@@Kanoog no flexing but definitely proud of myself... I don't think it's bias, I'm just making a point that you shouldn't need to pigeon hole yourself into "a degree is the only way you can really make it".
Also why so angry man? I haven't said anything offensive or forced my opinion on anyone.
I went to college at 18 for 3 reasons - sex, drugs, and rock and roll. I succeeded beyond my wildest dreams and had to leave after my first year. Even with tens of thousands in loans for that year I have no regrets. It helped me figure out what I wanted to do and I returned to college a few years later for a BFA (photography) and BA (history).
One of the biggest things I learned in college was how to communicate. Working in any visual art requires putting visual concepts into words - that can be a very difficult thing to do. While it was torture for me to write papers about post modern concepts it proved really helpful when working with art directors (most of whom have had the same experience). I also learned to disagree with people without thinking they were idiots, or even necessarily wrong. A lot about visual art is opinion, and having the experience of seeing people with wildly different views and attitudes from mine make some great work was incredibly valuable.
"working in any visual arts requires putting visual concepts into words - that can be a very difficult thing to do" I relate to these words and thank you for just putting this comment up. I am doing my first year on Applied Arts in commercial photography and I am doing great with my marks but when it comes to what I quoted from you that is my weakness but I'm trying I will better get as long as I am trying because I love what I am doing.
21 years old here. 3 years into my photography business. Things are picking up and starting to shoot small campaigns. Not going to school is tough, you definitely have to be mentally strong ect ect. I think it’s “easier” to fall through the cracks of society without an education. For me now, I have no regrets it’s working out well
“That’s not okay, but that’s life” probably one of the most important lessons a young person can learn. My daughter is 18 and starting her path and I’m going to show her this video. I think social media (especially UA-cam) puts an immense amount of pressure on young people to be successful at a very young age. I studied photography, cinematography and Production Design and then worked in tourism for 14 years. Only started MY photography career in 2021 at age 38. However what you say is completely true. Had I started straight out of school I would have failed dismally. The experience of learning all the other things that has nothing to do with a camera or a light are invaluable to me now. I can offer clients a true understanding of their problem and I have years of compounded broad experience to solve it. Thanks Scott for another great lesson in life.
I have a 4 yr business degree and self taught photography 10 years after I graduated. 4 months after picking up a camera I received honorable mentions in professional categories at the International Photography Awards. A lot of what you said about learning how to learn has been true for me. As you’ve mentioned in past videos, understanding the business and how to make money is a vital part of being a professional photographer and I can confirm that having an entire business degree has been incredibly helpful. It seems like you don’t have to be the best photographer but you have to have a certain level of quality and know how to market yourself at that price point to really be successful. I still have a lot of work to do but I’m in a decent place after being at it for only a year. I feel like your videos provide confirmation that principles I’ve learned apply to the photography field and help give a bit of guidance to someone who’s trying to do it on their own. Landscape/wildlife photographer.
I've always been an entrepreneur. I was raised that way. College when I was younger was not really an option due to the costs and my unique situation. (too long of a story) I started my photography journey when my wife handed me a camera one day. I never thought it was the direction my life would take but here I am. 14 years later. I've taken many roads and have began to, after 14 years, find where I feel I truly belong. I specialize in cosplay photography now and I love it. It is slowly coming back together now with covid slowing down (another long story). Also college when I did go did not offer anything in photography. I went shortly and realized it was a waste of time because I wasn't going to be an accountant or phycologist however both skills have helped in photography for me. My oldest son got his degree and my youngest is working on his now. I'm so glad they are taking a different path than I did. They will have an easier go of it I hope. It's really hard being a business owner that is not motivated by money. I imagine it's even harder having that person as a father. Anyways thaks so much for the videos and inspiration. Cheers for the U.S.!
53 year old starting a BA Photography degree in a few days time. Totally agree with everything in your video/s, but having breached the 40+ age barrier, I have to say that I had an itch that needed scratching. Never went to uni and always wanted to. The idea of challenging myself and reaching my full potential both creatively and commercially is a real motivator. But ultimately it is to be able to see more clearly, digest idea and formulate better outcomes. One is never too young to learn, explore and develop ideas and skills. So I say to anyone of any age watching this that has a similar itch, go do it. Go study and develop the skills you know deep down need improving. Great vid as always Scott.
From my experience, going to college for business definitely did help me launch into my now full-time photography career (never actually took a photo class in school though). The obvious basics of learning finance/accounting/marketing/etc were very useful, but also having a ton of other students to be my portrait test subjects helped give me a lot of practice early on in a comfortable and low stress environment. After school I got a full time office job in logistics (non photo related) which helped me learn a ton about customer expectations, being professional, handling major issues and obstacles, which now makes any issues I run into with photography feel like much less of a big deal. Fortunately I was able to avoid any debt by going to cheap community college/state college and having my parents help with tuition.
Can't say this needs to be the path for everybody but I agree with this whole video that university/college lets you "learn how to learn" and become a lot more mature without major consequences.
Just found your channel last week and love all your videos thanks so much for all your time and information.
If someone has the skills, is well connected and most importantly has a sufficiently large ego, they could succeed in commercial photography at any age. In film days, a working-class lad like David Bailey needed to hone his skills at a studio like John French, where he would have learned lighting and darkroom practice, and especially how to deal with clients with large egos. If someone had to choose between a limited skillset and an outgoing personality, and encyclopaedic knowledge of the medium and a reticent manner, the first is more likely to succeed commercially.
Thanks for the great advice. I didn't have the opportunity to go to university but always loved learning, so I still try to learn as much as possible to improve my life and talents.
Absolutely agree with you, Scott.
University is THE place where you learn how to learn fast for the rest of your life.
I am a40 years old french photographer. Started my career in 2017 after working 9 years as a Pharmacist.
I spent 6 years in university. Every time I think about it, I know it was 100% useful in my actual everyday job.
It helps for : organize job, behave with clients, network with other professionals, learn new skills, be able to talk with client and prospect at a high level of comprehension of their own professional domain.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge !
I joined the US Armed Forces for the 1st 24 years of adulthood and picked up photography as a hobby along the way. I lived overseas for 30 + years and the experience was amazing, it's not for everyone. Studied communications while I served, didn't finish but I'm doing all right in life.
I got my masters in photography 5 years after finishing my architecture degree, happy that I did it for many reasons. It was very much an art degree, I learnt a lot more about John Berger than running a business.
As a research scientist that recently tuned into your videos, I have to say this is my favorite video that I've seen on your channel. I might even recommend it to my students, because it brings up some great points about how one learns. Through practice and patience.
Once again I am impressed by your view of the world. The unpretentious, pragmatic and humanistic vision is something I share so closely. Interesting conversation.
I didn't do the whole university thing (wasn't academic enough, to be frank) but looking back I genuinely feel the only thing I missed out on was the social aspect. But, I have no frame of reference as I didn't experience uni life.
I don't believe doing a degree would have served me particularly well in my career because l'd have missed out on several years of hands-on, real life work experience which served me incredibly well professionally. It gave me a head start and I was able to progress 'up the ladder' at a younger age. When I was recruiting designers a few years ago as part of managing a creative studio, the consistent feedback was that university was a waste of their time and taught them nothing about working as a professional. Perhaps controversially, I actually felt that the designers I took on that didn't go to uni were more talented!
I take your point about university being good from a personal development point of view, but I'd argue that it's an incredibly expensive way to go about it - especially if the subject matter is irrelevant and won't serve you in your future career.
Sage advice Scott. Growing up takes time, like learning to ride a bike. This should be a 'must see vid for every 17yr old in the country! Cheers -Greg
I'm also Dyslexic. This story is similar to mine. Learning how to learn and failing during it informed how I went forward in life. Thanks for sharing this Scott. Nice to know I am in good company.
Totally agreed ! And thanks for saying that !! I have a PhD degree in Neuroscience, but given that research market in France is a very big mess (and for personal reasons as well) I did my own business 6 years ago as BtoB photographer. I've been asked how a researcher could possibly go to "only photography", and I think this is absolutely out of topic. For me, PhD has been an incredible experience that made me grow up in many subjects : manage a project, deal with the unknown, learn new things, work, understand needs of people and most of all, a huge dose of maturity. So yes, I totally share your point and again, thanks for you content and your useful channel !
Excellent video and topic!! I hope enough young people watch this video and take you up on your advice.
Although I was too poor to attend university right out of secondary school, I joined the U.S. Navy at age 17 where I was able to attend night classes at a local university.
Unlike classroom studies, the Navy taught me many of the life skills I needed and helped me avoid many of pitfalls my peers experienced in their youth. Best of all, the Navy brought me too Japan where I had to learn everything all over again just to function as a literate adult in another language and culture, albeit easier with some maturity under my belt.
Navy life is not the same as university for sure, but I think a good option for young folks depending on the kind of job.
Science Master's from the U.K., PhD from the U.S.. I think we had similar upbringing. Agree with learning how to learn, and would add learning how not to quit under pressure, and learning how to communicate and work deeply with a lot of very different types of people.
I remember working with academics during the day, and working at a bar on the Liverpool docks in the evenings. Not sure which shaped me more.
There are many ways to experience life successfully, but this video is a really interesting insight.
I have an AA in Journalism, BA in Broadcasting and MBA. I completely agree with this video. Most of the technical skills needed to be any sort of "creative entrepreneur" can be learned on the job, but higher education teaches kids how to be well-rounded adults by creating a space where it's okay to fail over and over again. Being able to freely experiment, make mistakes and figure out who you are is the best thing for kids coming out of grade school.
I agree. University really opens up your mind and teaches you how to learn. Most people in their current job role don’t know how to do the role when they start out, they know how to learn the role
I couldn’t agree more with the message of this video. Brilliant message that I wish I had heard when I was 18 and reminded about at 24/25🤷♂️
This video is incredible well timed for me as I'm 18 and a couple of weeks from now I'm starting university. It is in a field different to photography and I can't see myself working that but nonetheless I think it would be an excellent experience. In my country and in my region in particular the barrier to entry in photography is considerably low. A photographer in my area had taken me with him to a couple of weddings for me to learn and see how he does things. After him seeing what I can do and that I'm somewhat competent (as competent as an unexperienced 18 year old photographer can be) he had recommended me to do some jobs on my own. A week ago I was strapped to the edge of a bridge photographing bunji jumps. I got this job mostly because nobody else would wanna do it considering the low payment but opportunities like this one are everything for me at the moment. Apart from that your videos are truly inspirational to me, they make me wanna create the best photographs I can and as you would say not just pretty pictures. For now there will be a lot of pretty pictures because it's incredibly hard to make something amazing. There will be even more not so pretty pictures but I do like the journey and I will keep on photographing.
Totally agree that you should try taking any small jobs you can for now, especially that one with bunji jumpers sounds really fun! Just make sure you consistently increase your prices at a comparable level with others in your area, even if it's just asking for an extra $50-100 for a shoot every 3-6 months. A rule I heard once is that if every client is saying no to your prices, you're probably charging too much for your skill/quality. If every client is saying yes to your prices, you're probably not charging enough! It's ok to get turned down every so often but getting that early income helps a lot with upgrading your camera gear and investing in education/other equipment.
The idea of being strapped to a Bridge sends shivers down my spine, as I am terrified of heights but hats off to you, sounds like such an incredible experience. As Chris has said below taking those small jobs here and there whilst they might not always be the photography you want to be shooting, they are a great way to build your skills, confidence and get your name out there and you never know what might come from those small jobs. - Good luck with your course !
Life stories, amazing!
I am a professional photographer and I do not have a degree. Between ADHD and dyslexia, that was not well managed, I barely graduated secondary school. Growing up in the military, moved around the world and had wonderful experiences with many cultures. After several jobs that were very physically taxing, but never giving up photography, I took a position as head of photography and videography for a multinational manufacturing company. I am still doing photography in a couple of disciplines for myself, which has slowed things a bit. But, I sure am enjoying what I do and it never gets mundane. The different disciplines helped in my "day" job. Being able to understand how to photograph everything from small parts all the way up to machines the size of buildings, makes a big difference. I hit a learning curve recently when I was asked to produce more images of people. After some trial and error, and some lights, now I'm making stunning environmental portraits.
Scott, thank you for all that you do. I have done a little food, for fun, and my hat is off to you. That genera would take years to master and I have no intention to do so. Your channel is honest and forthcoming in many layers and that is why I'm drawn to it. A bit of how to, a bit of how to run a business, that is right in my wheelhouse. Thank you for what you do and your willingness to share.
Definitely agree on the value of a university experience. I did mine and then started in my chosen career in an entirely different field. Learning some life skills and how to learn was the most important bit.
Archeology degree... now i am at coaching school so i can teach people how to ride a bike. All after 12 years+, 5/7days running training with a coach. And still learning something new each day, today i learned from you how to guide the path of young photographers that i will meet in the future. Regards!
Thank you for this video Scott - I am incredibly dyslexic and was really against going to University for quite a while due to the workload and struggling to keep focused in a educational environment. I left A-levels and an Art Diploma at 21 a little naive and tried to establish my Photography business and instantly failed and couldn't get the work or wasn't taken seriously in the industry.
I hit a mental road block and decided my best option was to try get a trade or a skill to full back on. I went and did a City and Guilds L2 in Electrical Installation which I don't regret at all because its helped me with my DIY and practical skill with on set electric and set building.
But still throughout the course I knew deep down I wanted to focus on my photography. After completing the course I decided maybe University was my best option to enhance my knowledge of Photography and gain access into the industry through the University's contacts.
I worked a temporary job at a theatre as I had an interest in lighting and set building saved some money and enrolled on too a BA at Middlesex in Photography - They were fantastic in supporting my dyslexia and building my confidence in myself again and overall the facilities, lectures and technicians where all brilliant. In the second year I managed to gain some work with Tim Flach (my Specialty is animal/pet photography) which was fantastic and as you have said many times assisting a photographer is an incredible way of networking and learning the industry.
After graduating, I have now set up my own Studio - Last year in the middle of the pandemic it really hasn't been easy and I have had a few very slow months with scary overheads but I love what I do - I would love to do one of your 1 to 1 sessions and have your insight into how I can move forward. As things have been tough theses last few months and being a small new business isn't easy.
Thanks a lot for this video. I was curious to hear your considerations on this topic. I graduated in law and got a job in what is supposed to be a related area. With my partner, who graduated in economics, we try to build a studio to finally put our shared passion in the centre of our lives. The collateral skills, aside from the photography, are definitely a huge bonus that speeds up the learning curve and, what's maybe more important, protects the business and our freedom with it. We are both 29, so we consider ourselves grown enough to hold responsibility and young enough to afford perseverance. Some graduation may help more than others, but at the end of the day, the person you are and your ability to filter priorities are what makes the difference, and that's a skill every University path offers. Given the same skill in photography, chances are that a person who graduated in graphic design with a basic understanding of licensing or privacy will run a good photography business as much as a lawyer with a sensibility for design.
An interesting video. BASc, EE, U of Waterloo (near Toronto), Class of 1971. My experience was a tad different from yours. At the time, Waterloo was said to be the largest employer of Cambridge grads, other than Cambridge itself. It was a brutally hard course, and there were no unintelligent students. School for 4 months, work term for 4 months, repeat for 5 calendar years. Best thing I ever did, had a great career, photography was a hobby, still is. Last assignment was in South Africa for 18 months where I got great photographic opportunities. Happy for your success and enjoy your channel.
Well, this subject changes a LOT depending on where you live. Here, in Brazil, getting a degree is mostly a life long debt (considering you're a regular person, who need a loan and can't afford to just pay it regularly). The only way of living outside of your parents house, while going to university, is if your parents are rich (or you got into one of the highly competitive federal universities). I'm 24 now and, despite being one of that "first of the class" kids in school, I had chosed to avoid it, at least at the moment. Considering how expensive this is and how little experience a 18ish have, I think the best thing to do is just work on whatever you can after highschool, for at least a year. This helps to better understand what the hell do you really want, and then pursuit it. Of course, I did know what to pursuit after school and had a pretty decent financial education from my parents, I learned how to manage my shit on my own with them, but a degree won't do sheit about this for you here. Also, now I have 7 years of proper work, while my friends who did got to the college are just starting out (and most of them got a debt to study something they don't even want to work with). Anyways, what works for some, may not work for the other.
Yup. I have two of them. No help from home but I took loans and as you said I built confidence and life experience I draw on everyday. I worked in advertising for years, later I retrained and became a professional chef. Hard work but I loved it. Fast forward, loans paid, happy in my work then Covid hit. Now I've got Long Covid that's not budging. Pivoting AGAIN. Crap. Thank you for doing these UA-cam's they're helpful and inspiring. With luck I'll see you for a portfolio review next year. All the best to everyone having to 'pivot'.
I showed this video to my daughter, she starts uni on Saturday.
I've got a Bachelor of Design to my name. Never really put those tangible skills to use as I became a Copywriter the day after I graduated. But the intangible skills, social skills, learning skills everything you talked about here, priceless. I doubt I'd be a Photographer today without that degree and the decade as an Advertising Creative. Another great vid.
Great video and a interesting topic. My opinion is that going to a university (especially in another city) for most young people @18 years old is the first steps of becoming independent, and making lifelong connections and networking that will help you along the way as a professional in any domain.
I learned my career in the US Navy. University life came after the military which was insightful but not necessary. The Navy gave me all the tools needed for being a photographer.
Oh man, I have a very unsexy answer. In about 15 months I was able to create a full-time, entirely sustainable photography business. No formal photography or business training. Everything I learned was from....UA-cam. Seriously.
I am currently 19 and getting my degree in Photography summer next year at the Higher Graphical College in Vienna. I had not to pay for the education and I am really grateful for living in Austria. Also I am free to go study at Universities in Austria with the Diploma I take. The 5 Years helped me personally develop a lot of social skills along with huge insight at the most different views on photography due to the many teachers I had. I think you would fit in there really well with your way of teaching people about photography.
Hi Scott, I have a Bachelor's degree from the 80s. When I changed career I went back to college to study photography and got a Pearson's BTec Diploma 2019 - got accepted by all the universities I applied to. However, I couldn't get funding for another bachelor's degree so... I'm trying to start-up a dog photography business and then I'll apply for an MA later when I have a reasonable portfolio. Thanks Scott.
Hi Scott, I'm in Australia and I currently have a Certificate 111 in Visual Arts (Photography) a Diploma in Photography and Photo Imaging and now studdying in a Degree in Professional Photography in Melbourne, whilst I live in Ballarat in Regional Victoria. I decided to do this as I wanted to learn about using a Camera and create the images I wanted to. As I started learning in really liked it and loved the techniques and the creativity, therefore I wanted more and felt that a Degree in Professional Photography would set me apart from most protographers and I really like learning everything and want more every day. Thank you for yout tutorials as they are really great advise and you have given many things to really take into account. Please keep them up and thank you.
Very good advice. I have also advise people who migrate to a new country to do a university degree in their new country of residence. It helps enormously to get in sync with cultural rhythm, find friends and assimilate
Didn’t get a degree, had to work right out of high school or I would have been homeless (again). Spent 7 years in retail management before quitting to do local Jack of all trade photography, which obviously failed because that’s a terrible plan to make money, but I learned a lot. Said yes to everything and learned as I went. Had to go back to retail full time to pay off some debts, saved my money and moved to NYC where there is a real photography industry. Started at the bottom as a studio grunt (at age 34) and now freelance as an assistant and shooter three years later.
A degree would have exposed me to a lot more of the world earlier, and made me a more interesting person, so I do miss out on that. Granted I’ve had a massively unique life and that has positioned myself differently than other photographers so I consider that a blessing and a value to my journey.
I have a medical degree in the United States which means 4 years of college,another 4 years of medical school followed by 4 years of residency training. No regrets. I never really thought about it or realized it until I watched your video, but yea I’ve learned how to learn things rapidly. Not only that my career as a physician affords me the opportunity to have a stress free career as a photographer. I have the financial freedom to shoot what I want, when I want and who I want to work with. Small world, my grandparents and mom grew up in Leicester
Brilliant littl talk and advice, too late for me, but 100% agree, I can't understand teens desperate to to go to work passing university education, but having an opportunity to have it
I agree. I was always business oriented, until my last semester in high school when Kodachrome became my favorite song. BUT I'd already been accepted for accounting so I ventured off while setting aside photography for 20 years. There seemed to be a lot of gatekeeping 20 years ago plus digital was in it's infancy.
Having a degree helps you in many ways, depending where you go it opens your view of the world and cultures if you're not adventurous or were sheltered growing up.
This is precisely what my problem with higher education is, how it has lost focus from creating doctors of philosophy and turned into some kind of assisted living facility for the developmentally delayed. It's better if you can avoid spending the time and money on college, but it's hard to know what to replace it with. A lot of jobs we go to college for (like photography or programming) are not sciences but really crafts that are best taught as apprenticeships, but when the industry refuses to offer it, there is not much you can do about it as an 18-year-old, you have to work with the options that you've been given.
I have done studies in horticulture and security industry but not photography. I feel my photography journey is one I need to self explore and let my brain just run in any direction while shooting finding different weird and wonderful compositions and poses. I think study helps with photography to learn how to use a camera what lenses do to objects at different focal lengths and more. Color theory is another big one to wrap ones head around. photography is a industry that one will never stop learning. I think it's really the hardest industry to get into
Love your videos and by the way i have used canon from when the eos 600 35 film camera came out currently have a 5d original and a 1d mk iv also you said you went to cardiff uni my nephew is a lecturer there dr paul hewlett
I have a BSc in Zoology and BScPharm. The stress of pharmacy and a long concussion burnt me out fast. I am now transitioning into photo/video work. In retrospect I should have gotten into something creative from the start, but my science degrees help me understand how the world works, which I think has helped me understand and grasp camera technology and photography/video concepts quicker than without it. Additionally, some philosophy courses I took in university have helped me on a personal level with finding/making your own meaning in life, which helps fulfill WHY I want to do photography and video work.
That is actually a great take! I do have a degree and I m also biased ! You need to be educated and a whole person to become successful photographer, most of the times that is the rule.
I am 23 and I think this has helped me a lot I started uni late compared to my mates, I started at 22 and I have 2 years left
I went to university to do graphic design. Useful bit of education on so many levels. Photography was part of that but was never a career choice. Now I’m doing both at 62 and looking forward to continuing well after retiring from my lecturing job at university. My work has been a constant thread throughout my life. Now I teach those 18-24 year old kids, and mostly I try to shape their thinking to take advantage of their youth and their position in life. The education I want to give is specific to a subject, yet applicable to so many other fields, and that will give them the freedom to experiment and use their time at university to explore and make mistakes. I hope I succeed in this.
I have a degree in Economics and after I started working as a photographer I got a degree in Photography
Always hated school, was barely present in 8th and 9th grade. Instead i was smoking weed and playing guitar in various metal bands. It was not until i got into a construction / project manager school after military i liked studies. Got very good grades and a great job afterwards. Photography is what I do to relax in the norwegian forests after work or in the weekends. Got into it in 2019 and bought my first proper camera this summer. Its so fun and i really wish i could do that and music full time but thats only a dream.
It’s an interesting subject you bring up. I guess learning life lessons is part of life wether university or courses or learning from own studies or studying another subject and apply those learnings to photography for example.
I’m autodidact because I didn’t want to be drilled down a specific way of thinking that determines what is art and not. I know I missed know-how on lighting and posing and it took way too long time to acquire some of it and there is so much more to learn. A double edge sword; art/photography school or not.
this was cool. I started my career too young, 19, because I assisted a famous photographer. I was in over my head sooo many times. I lost my business after a couple of years but got a restart at 25 after living abroad which made me grow up. Two things make you grow up. Move out of the country or fail at your business. The famous photographers I worked for btw was Susan Einstein (grand daughter of Albert) and also Bruce Ayers (Vogue). When I restarted my career, I assisted the great Mizuno (Sports Illustrated/Playboy USA) who guided me and helped me find my feet. I think it's amazing that you give guidance to so many here on UA-cam. This is much better than most UA-camrs who are trying to sell presets and gear.
I am 47 and went to college and did a BTEC in care and worked in a nursing home for 18 years whilst my interest in photography grew. In 2017 I got a canon 750D to further my photography. At the end of last year I upgraded my 750D to 5D MK 4. The only qualification I got since leaving college in 1993 was an HNC in Computing. I now do photography for estate agents and can set my own work rate.
Nottingham to London for me, everything you say is sound advice. I was on a 5 year vocational degree. The first year they wanted to get rid of the folk who wouldn't make it, it was tough. Then 4 years of life changing experiences and to be honest fun. You need the space away from your parents to properly grow up in a safe environment. It is not so easy now, I came from a poor background and social mobility was encouraged. The big shock was that half the people on my course were from public school.
I do have an associate degree in video/audio and sort of fell into photography and received that degree as well. I did the photography degree because of uniqueness of the program, it was at the time one of the few colleges that taught color film ,black and white film and experimental photography.🙂
I did not feel capable of making a life long affecting decision at 18! So I didn't ...and I didn't go to Uni with all my friends. I obviously realise that not feeling capable of a decision WAS a decision! I some times regret it but usually don't, I might have turned out very different and I have since found my way of learning and my appreciation for it, just a bit delayed. Have taken up various courses in the pursuit and photography being the most long lasting...got some nice work but not enough for full time by any means. The focus hasn't been enough, maybe Uni could have been that lesson in focus...who knows...but here we are 20 years later and still enjoying learning and growing at least. I feel a lot of folks have already become settled in their ways by now...stuck perhaps, I threw myself off a 5ft skate ramp for the first time last week, terrifying but part of learning.
Hi I am 54 I went to Documentary Photography School here in Sweden called Nordic Photography School at the age of 27. Have since worked a variety of fields all connected to photography. Worked as editorial photographer, commercial photographer, media department at university and a lot of freelance in-between. And now the last 9 years I am working as a hospital photographer. Working editorial freelance for a newspapers was the hardest I've done, really hard to make a good living, but being almost broke is also a good lesson in life.
I'm a radiographer (besides being a photographer) which is just another way to take pictures 😅 we even learnt and use the inverse square law at Uni ahah. During my degree I ran my own gel nail business to pay my degree and bills, which didn't have anything to do with photos or radiology but did help me to learn how to deal with clients and so.
I agree that a degree and all the experience that comes with it does helps a lot, even if you don't work in that same specific subject in the future.
hey, you have done a ton of videos for the past few year do you think a recap video would be good? like advice you think is still worth highlighting or maybe things you have changed your mind on if any
I never went to university, I joined the RAF at 18, but gained HND and then Degree in Aeronautical Engineering through my career. It’s only now as I enter my fifth decade on this earth that I have time to dedicate to things I thoroughly enjoy, I now have my own Studio/Mancave that allows me the time & space to experiment in whichever genre I choose.
Here was my journey. I’m currently 42 years old, grew up in California and moved outside of Philadelphia in 1997 at 17 years of age. My high school best friend got into photography which inspired me to buy my first Nikon film camera and started doing portraits. Parallel to this I found DJing through my love of music. So I bought turntables and started spending all my money as an 18 year old on records. One day my camera got stolen and I didn’t have money to buy a new one so I focused on music. Ended up with a decent career as a DJ. Got an agent, held residencies in Atlantic City and Philadelphia. Got to do some traveling…. Etc…etc… Then in 2018, my DJ career was in a good place and I had some spare money and needed another creative outlet. Photography called me back and I bought another camera and a couple nice lenses. 5 years later I’m still DJing and my career as a photographer has grown. My goal will be to eventually step back from DJing and focus more on my Photography.
Oh, somewhere in the middle of that story I went to business school, got an associates degree in computers and networking, but never did anything with it. 🤷🏼♂️
I don't have a photography degree. I started out photography about 3 years ago as a hobby, but because of covid I was not able to work in my main work thats why I started my photography business.
I had a thought to go to school and study, but I talked with friends who have photography degree and they still struggle to earn enough.
I originally started doing a dance degree last year but due to health issues, had to drop out 😢 but I have started a balloon business and want to expand by getting better in photography, I know some bits but not a lot so I am switch to art and design with photography pathway, so it’s a great alternative that will help my business x
Agree. I gained so much self-confidence at university, realized I can solve almost any problem if I decide to do it, learned to use literature (yes, internet was hardly accessible at that time, early 90's), learn to memorize lots of details and how to approach to a problem. I started professional photography after two jobs, in my mid-30's, I'm 50 now, living quite good of photography (weddings, portraits and mid-level product photography in my studio). My wife was scared but really supportive when I decided to go pro full-time. 15 years later - it was my best decision ever, except marrying her 🙂Best wishes!
I completely agree that College is good for teaching good information and getting used to people around you, that said, I started my business at age 23 and make a killing. I dropped out of college to do that. I would not expect any 18 year old to just start a business unless it was something more physical related. I worked for other people while I went to school and eventually got the knowledge I needed to be able to do it myself, and learn as I went. I would expect an 18 year old to get a job as a photographer assistant and learn the ropes for a few years before attempting to go out on their own. It doesn't take college to do that, it take maturity. I was a manager for Radio Shack at age 20, because I had 5 years of sales and customer experience up to that time, and I was really good at selling and dealing with employees. I don't think my college time did anything for that, growing up did, and doing it and learning what worked and what didn't.
You don't need college to be a great photographer, but you do need some life lessons and a knowledge of running a business and basic accounting. Back in my day that likely meant some college classes, today all of it can be learned on UA-cam for free. I was pre internet, my business was pre internet and then also during the early internet days.
I’m 52 and just signed up for a degree in photography, with plans to go for a masters. I have two bachelor degrees (logistics, and business management) and im 100% retired with substantial savings and investment income.
I think going back to college will help me become exposed to more skills, while also teaching me what i dont know that i should know.
I was particularly interested in this question. I googled it and I think you pretty much answered it. What did the degree do for you? Did you learn to be a better photographer? Or did you already have an 'artist's eye'? Did you just aquire a degree, based on the uni syllabus, or did it teach you the things which you now apply to your photography?
As a 56 year old, married, white male, in the UK, I am counting down to retirement and am settled and therefore highly unlikely to start any form of professional photography business. I simply don't have the opportunity, away from the house, to shoot and improve. I have the imagination of a conceptual artist but not the practical skills to pull it off. My retouching knowledge is basic and my inclination, effort and commitment toward travelling and improvement are sadly non-existent.
I picked up a dslr in 2015, following the disappointment of having commissioned a friend, who (I understood) was an amateur hobbyist photographer and (I understood) could take a good picture (on the cheap), to shoot my wedding! Disaster!
Subsequently, Ive pored over 8 years worth of UA-cam videos; bought a couple of grand's worth of erroneous gear and have done 30-odd glamour photography shoots (because, let's face it, it's more fun than photographing still-life) but due to a deeply-rooted inferiority complex, I am still barely any further forward. Ive learned many technical lessons, from the TV, I'm sure but I just stress out and fail to apply the knowledge on-site.
The only thing I can still take away from my photography is any improvement in my 'keeper rate'. The internet has provided the worst environment for and overly-self-critical person. I have become so aware of the need to try NOT to compare myself to other more skilled photographers and retouchers.
Im aware of my limitations and am less concerned nowadays about the issues but it was interesting to watch your video perspective. Thanks and keep doing what you do.
For me i think it varies person to person what works for one may not work for another. It is surrounding yourself with the right people, who seek to better themself or you, whether they be a street sweeper or a Chancellor of a university. Everyone develops in various, different ways. Education is key in whatever form, i studied at 29 for two years at college then worked at a portrait studio for 10 years and self taught and developed myself through that.
I do see your point of view university has a lot to offer for an 18 year old and times have changed and in today's society it may be the right choice but im from a different era so may be out of touch, its not about the qualification it's about the path to it. Before that i spent 17 years in factory, I gained the ability to work hard and be reliable. That was a place where no one wanted to learn better themself. I do read a lot of biographies and find no one has a straight path in life, but with determination and graft you end up in the right place.
Great video. For me going to University was a good thing. The degree itself wasn't such a great learning experience, and most of what I learned I haven't used in industry at all, but the other things I learned have been very useful and boy did I make a lot of mistakes too. My main profession is IT and with such a radical rate of change the course I did was out of date before it was even written, and that was in the 90's. Today would I suggest anyone goes to university for an IT degree? Depends on the person I guess - I think there are enough routes into this industry without a degree, and many would be better off taking a junior IT job having if they have the aptitude to learn from many of the free resources online beforehand and then getting their employer to pay for professional training as their experience grows. But I guess that's the whole point of university - learning to learn - and getting the most out of the free stuff isn't obvious to someone leaving school. For other professions such as photography you are right, it takes time to nurture these skills. I have all of this to consider with my two kids. My eldest is just starting her A-Levels and wants to become a Vet. For her University is mandatory, there is no way into that line of work without a degree. My youngest is still in primary school and while we have plenty of time to figure out a path for her, it looks like she will be more creative than scientific. She's definitely not the academic her big sister is, but she is much more streetwise and university might be the right sand-pit for her to pay in to discover what she wants to be later. Otherwise she may end up in a job just or the sake of having a job and that would be a waste. I think you've just convinced me university would be a good path for the least academic of my kids as the degree isn't the main pay off from university.
I got a degree in Photography from The Art Institute of Atlanta back in 2009. My Photography degree definitely helped me in some ways as a photographer but also hurt me. The debt leaving school was substantial and stunted my business growth. At the time school taught me techniques that you couldn’t otherwise learn as easily, now you can just learn how to be a photographer on the internet.
Yup totally agree. I went to University for ages and only managed to get a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree although I probably have enough credits for a doctorate. I was young and stupid but not so stupid as to think I didn't need higher education to learn how to learn and also to learn how to deal with other human beings! I certainly feel as though all my years at University kept me from making dumb mistakes when I entered the workforce. So when I finally left academia I hit the ground running. Never once have I been asked what my degree is in. Although I love to toss out that little titbit at my current job since I am lead software developer and my degree in fine art with a concentration in watercolor painting always gets a laugh! I'll never forget my first real job after getting out of University. All the way down in the big city (Boston) and the guy that got me the job gave me one bit of advice. He said don't hit on the art director (the woman who was my boss). And I know for a fact that if I had been at that job a few years earlier and she asked me to go out for lunch I would have been all hitting on her in a heartbeat! I know this is a silly example but I honestly don't think I was mature enough to have been able to deal with that situation prior to spending all those years in college. And that one job was pivotal in my early career development. That one job got me many jobs and if I had messed it up I am sure I would have ended up as a sales clerk in an art supply shop!
I am 20 years old and self taught myself photography. As much as I appreciate your videos, I believe that University will not benefit me. This may just be from how my cards have been laid out, however, I have been working in a marketing agency for the last year as an apprentice. Through this I have developed communication skills and made many mistakes as well as work in a team and present myself in a proffessional manner. Due to my experiences, I don't feel the need for a University Degree, although I do understand where you are getting at for someone who has just finished collage/Sixth Form. As valid as your opinion was here, I believe there are more routes for people to take, such as an apprenticeship.
Thank you for your videos. If you see this, please do let me know what you think as I am curious.
Your journey is similar to mine, Biology Degree, Masters and Post Grad Diploma. I now work in print media, where you have to learn fast, think on your feet and be able to Listen and Process info very quickly. Those skills became second nature after studying at Uni. Now I think nothing of putting in the hours to get a job done.
Just starting off in Photography and trying to figure out what type of Photographer I wish to become?
left school with nothing - I am 61 and have just finished an MFA in photography at UCA (distinction) after completing a BA photography (1st class) - five years of non stop full time education life long learning.
I‘m a commercial photographer and I have a master degree, but it‘s in film, not photography. It still helped to get into the matter
I took a photography class in high school back in the late 70s. To be honest, I was pretty wasted for most of it. And photography wasn't in my path. (To be honest, nothing specific was in my path.) I joined the Army and learned radios. Radios morphed into computers and I've made a lot of money in computers over the last 40 years. I really wish I had pursued photography. I shot motorcycles for about 8 years and did pretty well. I got in some magazines and a cover or two. No money. I decided I wanted to do this professionally and possibly had the chops. (The jury is still out ;-) ) But it was hard figuring out what photography I could believe in enough to sell. I don't by photos for my walls so how do I convince someone else to?? I had a friend who was an actress and traveling to Atlanta for headshots because, reportedly, no one in Charleston knew how to shoot industry-standard actor headshots. And I saw an opportunity to help others pursue their goals with my photography.. and make some money. It's been love ever since. Now.. with that as background.. I looked at photography courses and they were pretty pricey. If I was a young guy and it was an investment in my life, it might be reasonable (even here in the States). But.. I've got 10.. 20 years left to do this? Maybe? And I wonder how much they would teach me that I don't already know. (Maybe I could teach some of the classes. LOL) Now.. I DO think it would be interesting to go through the exercise. I'm sure I don't know everything they'd teach me. And, quite honestly, just being engaged and shooting more would likely be good. But.. it's a lot of money at this stage in my life. (Although, I'll be kinda ticked off if I'm shooting in 20 years and thinking, "Man, I shoulda gone to college".
Started my BA photography degree at 32 years old... Decided I didn't want to work in the hospitality industry until I retired. 100% would've dropped out if I went straight from school. Uni didn't teach me anything technical but it did help me to think in a creative way and has opened some doors for me. Now in my second year of being a full time freelancer... Pretty sure I would be in the same position if I would have just approached local photographers for assisting experience etc. but I'm glad I went non the less as I always regretted never going to uni. I do feel that the emphasis is always on 'young' people going to uni but as a mature student entering the world of commercial photography, I have no regrets going.
I went back to college and then University as a mature student and I have a BA Media Theory & Production. I did not do my honours year as I wanted out in the world and being in Scotland it would have meant a 4th year.
On the Uni course i found that the ones straight from school could not handle the course and most could not get that they had to do the research for the essays etc
I grew up in the United States where a degree comes at considerable cost. that was money we did not have and nor is it feasible to pay for it with part time work. I joined the US Army instead and served overseas. I learned quickly because where I am from, you sink or you swim. I was not privileged enough to pay to get taught how to learn. I just learned as necessity is the mother of invention. I think what you describe is a privileged persons approach. Either due to money or availability of affordable education if you were fortunate to live in a country where that is an option. After having a 20+ year career outside the photography field in an industry of fortune 500 companies I've noticed one truth. A degree does not indicate anything other then privilege. I see more people fail to succeed long term in the industry with degrees then those without. Those who have demonstrated the personal drive to learn, succeed, and thrive long term are often without degrees and are often the most knowledgeable and respected members of the community which our industry is.
I with no degree broadened my horizon not by reading about it, I lived it. I have been in roughly 26 countries, lived in 4 as a resident and speak 4 languages. I have an engineering job without an engineering education and have the respect of my peers.
I believe you are what you choose. No amount of coaching or instruction makes you what you become. Only aptitude, hunger, and raw drive does that. Those can't be taught or given...only earned.
A bit off topic, but i am a full time photographer for 3 years now surviving the pandemic shooting headshots (i have a small studio) , events and small videos, I don't know how to make the next step to bigger clients. I am earning enough money but i want to continue to challenge myself and just make more interesting projects. Do you have any advice on this?
is very trendy to say "university sucks", but so far I don't know of an alternative system that works or developed countries that has no universities to form their most skilled professionals and expertises. And of course the learning tools you mention, the "street" doesn't teach you that.
aha - I'm that 40 (well 41) year old degreeless you speak of! I think a HND was the highest I achieved - but honestly, not worth the paper it's printed on. Not unless Flash animation comes back into vogue lol.
Do I regret not having a degree? Maybe. My siblings both have strong degrees in Linguistics and Zoology. Do they use them? Nope. I declared myself self-employed since 26 - In that time, I've been a graphic designer, web developer and general jack of all trades. I did form a limited company back in 2011 and created a reasonably success online store from pretty much zero capital. The stress was huge and I didn't really have the foresight to expand in a way to eliminate that stress - which eventually got the better of me after about 4 years.
I sometimes wonder if I'm leaving this all too late. If I'm too long in the tooth - especially when I see videos about getting professional being a 10 year process. However, as a little anecdote, I will always remember one of my first web clients in London. She was mid 60s - never ran a business before, not particularly rich. But she started a business in a niche market and caught it at the right time. It made her millions.
So it's never too late to learn, and never too late to put your life in a different direction and follow your dreams.
I agree with everything insofar as being young. My Son goes to Northumbria university on the 14th of September, a path that I didn’t know existed way back in 1991 growing up on one of the worst council estates in East Yorkshire. It was get a job and that was that. My Son will be the first person in my family to go to university and the first one to study at A Level straight from school. Something that I’m immensely proud of. It Doesn’t matter what degree, just go to university.
Academia came to me at 40 and I now have a fist full of qualifications with the final one soon to be an MSc .
Is it worth it when you are 40+ ? I’d say yes but for different reasons. Will I earn more money? No. Will I have debt at the end ? Personally no but I can see why that would be a barrier for some. Has it improved my photography…. Yes put that is hard to quantify.
As an adult, the reason as to why it might be with getting a degree is based on entirely different criteria than it is for an 18 year, old but no less valid.
I’d say it’s always a good idea to get a degree and regardless of age, most people we’ll come out the other end a more rounded and balanced person.
I wanted to go to university but on the first day of my second year in 6th form I was kicked out of A Level history. This messed up my plans as there was no way I could get to do the subject of my choice with two A Levels. For that last year in 6th form instead of studying I was taking pictures of my school mates and got really into photography. I think if I had gone on to study I don't think my photographic career would have happened at all.
I am a retired professional photographer who did a degree course 45 years ago. It was the best thing I have ever done for myself. I learnt my place in history, I embraced the intricacies of class structure in order to become socially mobile, I got a superb education, and gained the confidence to go out and try and try again. Without my education, I would have crashed and burned. There is not a day when I don’t look back in gratitude.
For the post I’m in as a clinical photographer I have done my degree (which you came to talk to us at before the pandemic at DMU) and I also need a post grad for my work within clinical photography, and without it I wouldn’t be able to apply for any roles withing clinical photography unless it was a trainee post(which would then led to doing the postgrad) or assistance roles
I went University for Photography back in the 90's , I wished I had taken something else , it was basically assignment filling. You earn how to be Artsy , Fartsy, not how to make an income from photography.
After a one year computer operator certification program at community college, I got my first job as a … computer operator, circa. 1976. Took night classes off and on for the next 25 years in a steadily advancing, lucrative IT career (but still no degree).
Then chucked it all and opened a new age bookstore for the next 5 years.
THEN, went back to school full time in my mid-50s.
• B.S. in Sustainable Living and Environmental Studies, 2012.
• B.S. in Media & Communications, 2013.
• M.A. in Film Studies, 2014.
Maybe someday someone will hire me to shoot food photos. I’d like that. I’m really good with sweeping floors and rolling cables and organizing stuff. Best part of film school was learning set etiquette and production crew basics
I have a degree in zoology, but it has helped in understanding animal behaviour which helps with wildlife photography which is my passion.