Many comments have been made about wage stagnation, but the Median inflation-adjusted hourly earnings of wage and salary workers in the United States in 1979 was $16.75. In 2022, it was $18.12
@insearchofruss I think Mike’s point was that these are “inflation-adjusted” numbers. But what Mike’s point misses is how much more expensive things like college, housing, and health care have become relative to wages and everything else - that’s where finances have gotten a lot more complicated for a lot of people. And also the widening gap between the middle class and the super rich - this is not directly to the issue at hand, but has been very destabilizing for society IMO.
Don't forget the outrageous sales taxes we pay here in California. Also just a couples years ago, you would send me LP's without charging sales taxes which really helped.
1979 is the year wage stagnation started, a completely bad place to strart comparisons. Even still, I can't think of a single commodity that only went up by 8% after 45 years. If the minimum wage from 1968 kept up with inflation, that would be over $12/hr today. If the minimum wage kept up with productivity, which it had up till the beginning of stagnation, wages would be over $20/hr. The math just doesn't math that records aren't more expensive for the average person.
I don’t think people are talking comparatively with the 50s or 60s but just in the past four years. At the beginning of the pandemic most vinyl was $18-$25. Now those same records are ranging from $25-$40. Even some non-audiophile titles that give no extras are going for around $35.
Yes, but it's not just about the vinyl. I don’t understand why people think vinyl records should remain the same price when everything else like housing, rent, oil, and other costs has gone up.
The difference is back them i'd have to buy a record for every albums I wanted to hear or every album I liked a bit. These days I can just stream the albums I like a bit or want to hear a few times and only buy the albums I love
And the calculators are always under other adjusted estimates. Arguably, inflation data by the US Gov is understated. Not including homes? Some their calculations are less than transparent.
I've gone up $8 an hour over the past 3 years. Steel baby. Steel. And dudes at gas stations make $15 which is crazy high. Perhaps you need a new career path?
I see a lot of the complaints coming from people on the Hoffman forum with $50,000+ stereo systems, so I doubt wage stagnation is driving those particular complaints (I realize that’s not everybody though).
@ It’s representative of a lot of annoying complainers though, which is more of what happens there (also I’m not rich and my stereo system cost less than $2k total)
Unfortunately you're missing the point. It doesn't matter what it cost in the 50's or 60's. What matters is income to inflation ratio. Record prices (along with everything else) keep going up, but wages aren't keeping up for the average American. So people need to cut down on something, and that "something" is non-essential items like records....
I feel this maybe misses one point, people aren't comparing the costs of vinyl now to then, they are comparing it to contemporary options. I can go "well this album is about the same or cheaper than it was in 1965, so there's no problem", but if i can stream it for free or get more permanent copies way cheaper (or free), then that's the comparison for everyone who isn't buying for audiophile or collectable reasons. I've also noticed an extra one, if you don't have the money or space for a quality hifi set up, then a lot sounds the same, do why bother with the expense, space and inconvenience for little to no added quality.
Bingo! It's disappointing that music streaming is overlooked in this video. It's a key reason people are cutting cable, even though prices aren't higher, with alternatives like Netflix and Hulu now available.
The issue is not that records have gotten more expensive; clearly, they have. It's that records are too expensive. A record under $25 is an impulse purchase. Something I will take a chance on. Anything above that needs to be an intentional, vetted purchase. This has taken some of the fun out of collecting. Some labels do a good job with budget vinyl. Plenty of Blue Note records under $20. But my experience has been that anything new will hover around $30. That is enough of an increase for me to think twice and buy less.
Hello Mike, Using your same school if though, I looked up the average annual salary in 1965. It was $6500, crazy to think. Then I went to see what that would square to in 2024. It equals roughy $65K and change. Then I looked up what is the average annual salary in 2024 and it is tough $59k and change. So that one of the other comments made, the rate of salary increase doesn’t correlate with the cost of living. Now if it did, then yes, your analysis would be correct. The dollar doesn’t go nearly as far as it did in that past and no one has the extra income to spend on anything like they did in the 1960’s, 1980’s. The only other time when things were this bad were the 1970’s, but outside of that decade, the dollar had a ton of value.
Absolutely. Depreciation of one’s purchasing power impoverishes us slowly but surely over time. Folks from many countries who earn their living in currencies other than the global reserve currency 💵 know this phenomenon all too well.
Yeah, I just simply have less expendable income. When I go to the grocery store and it is $300 for less food that I used to get 5 years ago, I buy fewer records. I can't eat a record.
Yep... and, not to sound Snarky or 'Poor Me', but for people who DO happen to have a lot of money, they don't feel it like we do. Sure, THEY can go out and pay whatever for records no matter the price, but as I argue in detail in my comment above, when things costed what they did in 1965, going out and paying $3.95 for a record was no big deal. With bloody everything costing 20x more now, going out and buying a damn record for $40 is not so easy. So, you know where they can put their 'Inflation Calculator'... 😁
Good video Mike! But, I'm afraid that just using an 'Inflation Calculator' in a Vacuum, doesn't even come close to the impact of what records cost now BALANCED with other common costs, which are absolutely NOT equal. For example... Let's say early 1965 or so. My Dad worked at a grocery store full time making $2 an hour. With that, we had a nice, small 2 BR house with a great front and back yard. Also, we had a decent fairly newer car AND my Dad was able to save up for a really nice used BMW 600. AND... they were able to go to L.A. for the week (we lived north of San Diego) and with a hotel, luch, dinner, and a show every day, and the traveling there and back all came to about $100. So sure... a record at $3.95 at that time is directly equivalent to a record costing say $35 or $40 now, okay... BUT... at that same time you were able to do all that OTHER stuff and live life and have a nice house and buy nice stuff and do nice things AND buy the F'n record for $3.95. Sooooo... can you do all that stuff now AND buy the damn record for $40...? See what I mean. So, to me personally, just using an 'Inflation Calculator' and saying, 'See, records are basically the same price now' is TOTAL Bull$h*t, because it doesn't even BEGIN to equate with 'Real Life' now. In 1965 you were paying $50 / month for a nice small 2BR house, and could buy that $3.95 record. Now, paying $2500+ / month for the same small house, can you now just as easily go out and pay $40 for that record. Don't think so... And add in the 20x more gasoline is, plus everything else. Now, with all this other everyday Normal $h*t costing so much, going out and paying $40 for that record has a HELL of a lot more impact now than it did 60 years ago. Unless of course... You have a lot of money like you do and don't feel it the way most of us do (for normal stuff...) A serious argument I truly think.
I walked into the biggest audio chain store in Australia the other week and saw Daft Punks RAM reissue with a $84.99 price tag on it. I actually bought the original when it came out in 2013 from the exact same store for $29.95
Records haven’t gone up much in the last few years but groceries and everything else has. The first things people drop from there lives is hobbies. Another big problem is vinyl has to compete with “ Free” music.
Pressing quality today is atrocious compared to then. Can't tell you how many times it's taken me 3-4 tries to get a copy of something that isn't damaged. After 2-3 attempts for vinyl, I now go to the CD.
Spare a thought for international buyers, most of the audiophile releases our US mates get for around $35-40 we end up paying double or even more for, in most countries in Europe, Australia, NZ etc.
This doesnt really check out in the UK. I worked in HMV in 1988 .90% of new albums were £7.99 which is £21.64 in todays money, I would say the average standard vinyl record in the Uk is about £27-£29. The crucial thing is pressing quality I bought about 1000 new records between about 81-94..I can only think of 2 records where I had a pressing issue. Ive bought about about 150 standard new records from 2016 onwards , I would say 30-40 of them suffered horrible surface noise & just sit on my unplayed pile. TBH I'd be happy to pay more today if 33% of what I bought wasnt unplayable..& lets not get started on sleeve quality. The standard vinyl product today is pretty slapdash therfore for me price is almost irrelevant. They can sell them to me for a buck..but if it sounds sub par i'm not playing it, I might as well stream
The UK created its own issues with Brexit, that’s why, I’ve been buying records since the 70s, quality now in general is far better than before IF you understand which pressing plants and labels to buy, nothing has changed there, was exactly the same back in the day.
@@SpyderTracks Well Brexit was probably the worst day of my life so I'll agree with you there & it actually reduced me to tears, but thats another story. I've bought about 5000 records since 1982, unfortunately my interest is tunes rather thats labels & pressing plantsif a band with a good tune happens to be on a good label with a decent pressing plants, thats a bonus but as I said I had about 2 bad pressings up to 94, i'm running at about 33% now.m ive no reason to lie, i want this records to sound good because the eighties first pressings are often £200 plus. I bought an OG of The Meat Puppets 2 yesterday, it sounds glorius. 😊
Mike. Like your videos but your analysis is flawed here. Yes records adjusted for inflation are the same or more than today. The PROBLEM is the average person spending power has not increased in proportion to match it. For example if a copy of revolver is adjusted for inflation to make that an equal comparison you would also have to believe that income has increased 10x since the sixties. Do we think a job that made $15k in the 60s now makes $150k? I don't think so
When I started out buying records in my teens I got vinyl because I could not afford a cd. In Sweden Verve Urban Hyms were the equivalent of 18 euro. I still have it and the sticker to remind me. Back then I went to all the used vinyl places in town because a used cd was 10 euro but you could get vinyl records for 1-2 euro. So I bought that instead. I got more music for my money. Today, if I dident think I could afford vinyl I would go for cds. I know it’s like comparing g apples and pears but it’s the biggest physical format along with vinyl so as a collector of music I think it’s a pretty good option. Today it’s the other way around. People go to the store, can’t afford the vinyl but go down the street and get cds for 1 euro. People are throwing cd collection’s at the dump! Sounds familiar?? I have worked hard to get where I am and I’m one of the privileged that can keep on collecting records due to my gallery and having a core collection to trade and sell from. I’m sticking with vinyl. But maybe we will sit there in 20 years time and say the same thing about cds. I love this video and the debate. //Jonas
Here's the thing - when you press digital files onto a slab of wax and try to re-sell it to me for the 10th time, I'm not going to buy it. If the label decides to put the work in, and show me there's actual value there with the pressing, and mastering - I'll buy it. Example being like the Beatles in Mono set, that was a fantastic value but labels are cutting corners, mostly by using subpar mastering, or a subpar pressing plant, therefore the perceived value for me has declined. YMMV
When people complain about the price I believe they are more referring to the cost of the used market going up compared to say 5-10 years ago. That and people believe they’re not getting value for their money. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve read people’s comments about newly pressed vinyl sounds sub par compared to stuff pressed 30-50 years ago.
But the quality of the records were better than todays records, quality control is still an issues and 90% of the new records are digital sourced. There’s nothing worse than popping down a brand new record for $34.99 and discovering it’s full of pops and surface noise. Also original pressing prices are through the roof, I was shocked at the prices I saw at a recent record fare here in NY area, WFMU fare. The bubble needs to burst.
Metallica remasters are $5 on cd at Wal Mart and in the $25 range for vinyl. A common as dirt title Steve Miller's Greatest Hits is $34 on vinyl or I can keep the cd I got at a thrift for a quarter. ABBA Gold for $50????
appreciate what you are saying BUT: here in europe a Tone Poet was 45 euros 3 years ago. It is now 59 euros where I live. The dollar euro ex. rate played a part as the dollar got stronger over the euro during this period. But this is a significany price hike for the european consumer so no wonder sales of high end records are falling or at least stabilising. I know the prices because I leave the price tags on my records.
In Sweden a used cd cost 10euro 25 years ago. Today it’s 1 euro. I love collecting records but I have also started to get back in cd. It’s a great time to get used cds now.
The problem is back in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s almost nobody was paying retail prices for albums at record stores (unless they were uninformed or desperate). When I was growing up, the easiest place to find records were department stores and at my local one all their albums would be discounted every single weekend. As record store chains became dominant in the 70’s and 80’s, they rarely sold records at full retail prices. But today, it is a rarity for local independent record stores to sell albums below retail prices unless they’re having a special sale or they’re trying to get rid of albums that aren’t selling (such as Adele’s latest album). I know of one nearby record store that has the gall to price new album releases slightly ABOVE retail prices (pleading the high costs of having a business in that neighborhood). This is one of the consequences when records (or physical product) no longer sell in the millions but, instead, sell in the thousands.
Wow! I wouldn't have thought that records have actually gotten cheaper of the years. Also appreciated your insights about collectables and price memory. Thanks for offering some interesting perspectives.
The EPA is not your friend these days. Companies have to use additional methods to produce the same end product they did back in the day resulting in higher production cost.
The other compelling argument is that records in the 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s were really the only way to get the music and as time marches on the starting in the 80’s more options - now today you get stream music for free, that’s a challenge to similar pricing of yesteryear. People like you and me collectors and real music lovers no problem but everyone else doesn’t think like this - this is why physical media is reaching a peak and will be difficult to maintain otherwise you would see national chains stores again Tower, Wherehouse, Music Plus etc.
Great video. I think there are two reasons that it feels like records are getting more expensive even though they aren't. Everything else is getting more expensive and so when the cost of a house or rent, food, gas and seemingly everything else is way up, we see "luxury" items like records as a straw breaking the camel's back. I personally don't consider music a luxury but let's admit that many if not most people do. The second reason is that Spotify and UA-cam have got people used to having music for free or next to free. Even though paying for an audiophile disc is very different than paying 10 bucks or so for Spotify, it's still a psychological issue that didn't exist pre-internet.
I’ve always liked to measure things in “hours of work”. In 1981 I was in high school, I got my first job at $3.50/hr. I still have albums that I bought with the $5.99 price tag on them. A high school kid today working $15/hr still needs to work almost 2 hours to buy an album, just like I did.
The older we get we completely forget about inflation. When you factor in audiophile quality like Rhino Hifi, audiophile reissues have come down enormously when original MoFi editions were around $30 which was around 4x the cost of a normal record at the time. Nowadays even a BlueNote Tone Poet or Analogue Productions 45 comes in around double the cost of a normal record.
Very valid episode. When I began collecting in the 60s, I purchased records when possible. Hearing people say how expensive records are do this calculation. Take your annual compensation, multiply by 1.30 (cost to include benefits), then divide by 2000 (number of hours worked yearly) to arrive at your hourly pay rate. For most, your hourly date will be higher than the cost of most, including audiophile, records.
A great video Mike! Thank you. My feelings on it as a 62-year-old man who is collected records since he was 10 is that I don’t feel comfortable paying more than $30 for any record. It’s true that today we have a lot more availability for great sounding records but with expendable money and record albums, it’s tough to justify taking more than $30-$50 out a week to buy a single album. I wish albums today were just 20 bucks. To complicate this even more is that my feelings are to have a set of records that I’ve always loved that I didn’t own as a child, Yet I’m very happy Bluetooth streaming most music that I love that. I just don’t feel is worth the price of an album..
Just got back from a local record show, and compared to the last year I went, the prices have jumped up a crazy amount. Records I used to find at this show last year were around $15-$30 more expensive this time around. Still found some decent deals, but my god the prices for most of them were just ridiculous.
Chad, at Acoustics Sounds, seems to never miss an annual increases in his prices. He also forces you to use FedEx, which is more expensive than the post office, on his UHQR lps that the buyer is always expected to pay.
For Canadian record buyers we greatly affected by the currency exchange. A record on your website that is listed for $35 $USD is $51 $CDN. Retailers in Canada would sell that same record at $55. Wages in Canada are usually comparable to US wages. Inflation is higher here so are impacted on record prices.
And on top of that. A lot of records are pressed in Canada then sent to the USA and then imported back. Who gets to pay for all that travel and import fees for a record that was manufactured in Canada to begin with! Urgh. It boggles my mind.
In the 50’s, 60’s and into 70’s, vinyl was pretty much a consumers only option for buying recorded music. If back then all music was available for $1 a month, those prices would have been much lower.
You’re right that records are often cheaper than in the past. But that’s because in the past records were considered the luxury format. When CDs came along they were considered the luxury format, so they became more expensive than records. Also, it’s not that records are more or less expensive than before, but that they are the most expensive format compared to other formats today, such as CDs or streaming. Finally, the total cost of ownership of a vinyl record, when you include the hardware you need to play, and store your records, is much more expensive.
Outstanding video, thank you Mike. Here's a data point: I recall buying an Alice and Chains Jar of Flies double LP (EP, with etching on side 4) in 1994 for $20.
Hi Mike, Thanks for this informative video since 1985 I have been noting the amounts of purchase, before that time say from 1973 to 1985 I did not note amounts of purchase. It doesn't really matter that I didn't note amounts back then, it's about collecting and not the amounts I paid. But nevertheless it is good to know that the prices nowadays are not too extreme compared to the old days. Best regards from The Netherlands.
I have been recollecting vinyl for over 10 years. It used to be fun to go in to a local record store and find those old records that were anywhere from $3 to $10. There was also an aha! exciting moment when you did find those old records at a reasonable price - definitely a dopamine hit! Those days are gone. I also am a bit more frugal these days because most of the records I buy are over $30. I remember buying a record around $50 recently And it made me think about how much do I really want to spend moving forward on records. Just a thought.
Another thought. And I got this from talking to my parents and their friends who were young in the 60’s and 70’s with their first house. Yeah maybe it’s not that much more factoring inflation but it doesn’t mean that people back then also didn’t think records were expensive. They were a bit pricey back then and are a bit pricey now. Two things. Now people have other options to listen to music so there is that. But even back then most peoples record collections never exceeded 50 records and were usually around 20. They didn’t have ikea shelves upon shelves to store hundreds of records. Record buying will diminish once they have a small novel collection of records because it’s too expensive to keep buying records every week for most people.
Problem for me isn't the price, its the quality. The goddamn off center pressings and warps have gotten absurd. I can handle a warp b/c I can fix it but the off-center pressing, poor quality vinyl is the reason things are slowing down. I just buy old pressings now for the most part, just so sick of the hype of getting an album to open it only to find its crap. Even RTI and QRP fall into this, seems to come in waves when Chad is rushing to press things.
inflation eats into the cost of everything. From Bread to new cars to vinyl records. The dollar does not go as far as it used to 5 years ago let alone 10 years or 20 years ago. You need more and more of them to achieve equivalent buying power each year.
Some things cannot be calculated using inflation. It's about how much technology cost then and now. So 25 years ago a 32inch LCD flat screen was $1000 if you got a deal, now you can get a 70inch for that price with better quality. CD manufacturing cost much more in the 80's. Then they got greedy even when it would cost $1 to manufacture and still charge $18-$19.
Yes, CD manufacturing in its infancy requires capital investment which first needed to paid off before it could generate free cash flow. Once that was paid off margins likely improved significantly. Prices wouldn’t have been reduced until the demand for CDs signaled to the manufacturers that they should give up some of that margin. Micro Econ 101.
No offense , but of course you're going to say they haven't gotten more expensive because this is your livelihood. unfortunately you're not really comparing Apples to Apples because in the 70s and 80s records were the only way to get your music therefore they could be priced accordingly. nowadays there's many more Avenues two consume music. I think this can all be debated of course but from every record dealer I know and watch I can see all the nervousness in your eyes because the bubble is breaking
I stopped buying sometime last year, after collecting vinyl for 20+ years. So for me, it’s never stopped getting more expensive because I started when virtually every album was in the dollar bin. Having said that, the jump in used vintage record prices over the last few years has been nuts. I don’t really give a damn about reissues, so I’d much rather see a video on inflation adjusted prices of vintage records.
Yes. I think that many of the 'complaints' or contrasts being lamented over may also be moreso directed towards the rising cost of pre-owned/2nd hand/'vintage' vinyl over the last 10+ years, and exponentially post-Covid era. This has also been more recently exacerbated by a sharp rise in postage costs as well, particularly international post. So, yes, I would be interested to watch a companion piece regarding inflations adjusted prices of 'used' records and the 'vintage' market. Still, I did find this to be an intersting, thought-provoking video. Thanks.
Mike, you're overlooking the fact that the average earnings for year-round, full time workers was around $4700 in late 1950s. This is nearly $53,000 when adjusted and not much different than what we have today. But compare it now with cost of living and consumer expenditures in the 1950s...
Well,the thing is that the freely spendable part of the average wage earners income shrunk consirably in recent years while record prices went up in two digit numbers on average in the same time. Hence an even stronger feeling that prices went through the roof.
Today with the many media available for free it is fair to say the market got so much narrower and market forces will show what fair price is… if too expensive less vinyls will be produced, simple
Yes, the market forces are taking care of this. This is a niche hobby and it will remain a niche hobby. It’s likely that we’re slowly going back to reduced pressing batches, etc. Buy now or cry later, as they say.
Its not that records have gotta that expensive, its like you said, everything is more expensive, your dollar isnt going as far, and a big part of that is the monthly bills we didnt have 20 years ago even. Here in Canada insurance premiums are through the roof. When you have monthly bills for internet/phone/auto insurance/car payment/mortage/property tax/home insurance etc before you even get to groceries, yeah that 35$ record looks damn expensive at the end of the day lol
What I hate is that records I paid 2 dollars for 8 years ago now go for 20. And in the 60s and 70s you couldn't get access to all the music in the world for free or nearly so.
Great analysis, Mike! The biggest jump I’ve seen is in the used big rock records. For example, in 2017, I picked up a beautiful copy of Dire Straits’ Brothers in Arms at The In Groove (back at the old Thomas Rd. location) for just $5. Two years later, you and others were pricing it at $15 to $20.
So, the entrepreneur, who doesn’t give a hoot if you or your family misses a meal or a rent payment or two justifies the price increase so he can keep ahead of the game. I get it, self preservation, but some things just never change. And, I get that his costs have increased as well, but somewhere along the line the bubble has to break, right?
YEP. thank you Mike.. DjJoey rules...✌️🤘 edit: you're so right about the availability today.. doesn't seem that long ago it was just me and 6bor 8 others digging it felt like😂 I hope that was one humdinger of a good plasma TV..😁
@TheInGroove I have a related question that I'm hoping you can answer: Do the third party audiophile reissue labels impose any pricing restrictions on their resellers at all? I ask because several of your biggest competitors insist on listing most or all of their Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab and Analogue Productions titles as "Not eligible for further discount," but you don't do this at The In Groove. That stuff isn't restricted from you % off sales. Is it just a choice that those in charge of a given reseller make based on the margins of specific titles/ranges of titles? Thanks!
Cool look at vinyl pricing of today versus yesterday. The inflation factor is most definitely a good way to compare our current prices against prices over the decades but I would add WAGES and EARNINGS into the equation. When I started buying records as a teen I made a part time wage of $2.75 an hr in the mid 70's, records cost more than min wage each. By the mid 80's I was earning around $10 per hr and again new vinyl cost one hour of work each on average, used were a much cheaper option of course. The 90's were all about CD's and they cost more than I made per hr for sure. Today I make a very good living and am debt free so buying vinyl is my guilty pleasure and although it is expensive I try to buy smart and am selective in what I buy. A album now costs less or the same as my hourly rate so times have not changed much really. 🥂 Cheers 🥂
Excellent video and a nice overview of where we have been/are from a record buying point of view. As you know, cost/price "perspective" incorporates multiple facets/factors. One of the single biggest obstacles is the availability of similar options that are or are seemingly "free" such as "streaming". When the general public has access to and gets used/accustomed to "free" whether it be music (streaming) or money (interest rates close to zero) any amount of "additional" money/costs equates to the "perspective" of things (records) being more expensive even when taking things in a historical/inflationary perspective. This is totally understandable although from a collector/fan perspective, I know that records (any physical media, actually) were NOT cheaper back in the day and one could even argue that not only were they MORE expensive, they should have been far less expensive due to the scale of manufacturing that vinyl enjoyed when it was the dominant format. One can also make the argument that with the emphasis on quality control on the entire manufacturing process including mixing and mastering new and archive releases (unfortunately, recording quality has taken a big step backward in most cases) has significantly improved. I worked in three (3) different record stores in Sacramento, CA from 1986 through 1991 while attending college (CSUS) and watched as cassettes and CD's took over market dominance from vinyl. Everyone kept waiting for the prices of CD's to come down as the pressing plants came online in the United States (previously CD's were manufactured in Japan and West Germany for the entire world market). Well, we all know that didn't happen as the prices of new release CD's hovered in the $16 to $20 range for decades! I will end by saying that I have been very pleased by the quality and diversity of product that has/is being released these past 10 years and feel I am getting good value for the money spent on the music that has brought me much happiness throughout my life. I do find it ironic that nobody is comparing the cost(s) of what we used to pay for concert tickets for even the BIG bands/artists to what it costs to go to ANY show today.
I would totally agree with you by knowing a significant percentage would go to the artists, mastering engineer, pressing company and maybe jackets. Label would need to lower their share as these are not new bands. But this is something controlled by contracts and we go to other areas. I fully agree with you that records will probably cost the same in any year because world is build like this. The inly difference today is the records volume ppl would like to purchase vs the old days. The purchasing power is the same. The desire to own more is bigger. 🤷♂️
Popping a few numbers in a random inflation calculator doesn’t mean much . Wages haven’t kept up, and there’s also been a great deal of discretionary income compression.
With wages it depends. In 1975 records were $4-$6. I made about $4 an hour, so 1.5 hours I could buy an album. Minimum wage here in Seattle today is $15 so nearly the same to buy a record. Hopefully people make more than min wage. These national min wage is a bit over $7 and hasn’t been increased since 2009 That’s obscene.
Let me give you an example: Tone poets here in Europe where I live (I know becuse I keep the price stickets on the records) were 45 euros 3 years ago. Theyt are now 55 euros. No wage increase can match that. So the answer is YES. Dont foirget the dollar euro exchange rate. Stronger dollar means more expensive records in europe. So a very strong YES
And now that Tool album is worth a fortune. Its funny, i randomly wandered into your store yesterday as i was hitting up record stores while in town for the weekend. I was checking on thats 90s pressing of Undertow lol. Now this video randomly came up in my feed today. What a coincidence.
Agreed. I was in the biz in the 90s. Sold vinyl for nothing because no one bought vinyl. Imported it as special orders for the few that wanted it. CDs are simply much cheaper and the variants available are so numerous. Pic discs, colored vinyl, etc. I like certain music on vinyl. I'll buy jazz and my favorite bands on vinyl. If it's Coltrane or Black Sabbath I buy it. I don't need Slayer or Sepultura on vinyl.
* Bestie and I watched your UA-cam video about the price of records. You are quite accurate. Allow me to share more perspective. According to Pew Research from a few years ago, the Purchasing Power of the $2 Minimum Wage of the 1970s requires a pay rate of about $30 in 2024. Albums list price back then was $2.99 or $3.99, stores typically sold albums at 50c than list. Thus, $30 for a new album today is a fair and honest price. The problem is that Congress Republi-cons refuse to increase the Minimum Wage to maintain an equivalent Purchasing Power from five decades ago. A stagnant Minimum Wage reflects stagnant wages along the economic pay scale. *
Understandable. As a record maker or seller I would argue the same. As all sellers do these days whatever it is. Does it really require vinyl lp price inflation projections over decades to explain the current vinyl lp market situation in which pricing pains are expressed or isn‘t it just market oversaturation leading to less purchases at less disposable income for nice-to-have items? The effect will simply be short term more discounting on increasing overstocks and longer term a reduction in releases and pressing quantities. The market will go back to normal with hopefully a fiercer competition on quality-price value.
You are correct, prices are not nearly as good as they were 5 years ago. I think the rate/percentage prices increased from say 2015 to 2023/24 is what is shocking to a lot of people, long time collectors in particular. It just seems that jump happened so quickly compared to the previous four or five decades, it caught a lot of us by surprise. Thanks for the video Mike.
Great video! I recently realised that (new) lp prices of today are on par with prices the year I stopped buying lps and switched to cds; 1987. That realisation put things in perspective.... I am lucky I never really stopped buying vinyl after 87 so I experienced the "good times" of vinyl hunting. Second hand cost next to nothing, as was new. Happy days! Well these days are over and we are back to normal😉 Regards Rob Netherlands
Hi prices here in the UK ,have rocket and when there are special recordings or limited runs we get hit harder for import taxes and shipping, so now I have to realy ask myself do I keep buying vinyl
My take on it is most used records are overpriced..that said i can almost always get a used lp at the price i want on eBay.. usually can find a seller who is willing to sell at reasonable price
I only even buy 2nd hand now, unless it’s something I really want that’s impossible to find in the wild like original blue notes, archival live releases etc
Records still might “feel” more expensive today b/c incomes haven’t kept up with rising essential costs (esp. housing, healthcare, education debt) - leading to tighter discretionary budgets. Plus, way more stuff is now competing for our discretionary dollars.
Thanks for the insights, Mike. I feel the same. There are too many opinions and very few arguments being said. It’s nice to have things put into perspective. Felipe
Hi. It's Eliot Wien from NYC. Yes, The prices are getting too high for vinyl!!! But, I will admit as a Beatles collector, the recent Living in the Material World by George Harrison is fairly priced on all configurations. The recent Stop and Smell the Roses, and Old Wave picture discs by Ringo Starr are also fairly priced. I also believe the recent Talking Heads 77 release is also fairly priced. Maybe the Record Companies are starting to listen to us!!!!
Whilst, as many have stated, wage stagnation hasn't been taken into consideration. Today's rental prices and mortgages are significantly higher than back in the day.
The Hipster records that sell for 500$ now might sell for 5$ in 10 years or 5000$, impossible to predict what might happen. If you are buying as an investment, bear this in mind.
After digesting a bit more this video: 1. Ppl want to buy more records today. Prices are mostly at the same level. Agreed! 2. Production costs for new records can’t be calculated much taking into account the music on them is old. Is a new product any way we look at it, made under today’s costs. 🤷♂️ 3. Back in the days ppl were not really collecting records. They were exchanging them, did not cared much about them and even traded them with friends way more easily than what today’s behaviors are. This adds to the purchasing power of an individual too! I totally agree with Mike here. Prices can’t be lower because they are produced by ppl today under today’s costs. 🤷♂️ Used records prices are also growing naturally for the same reason.
Yes- but it’s the fricking shipping that kills that! Discogs will show you a reasonably priced item but then the shipping factors in double what the record cost. UGH!
I'm thinking the high cost of records has to do with looking back at crazy spending some did during pandemic. Personally my perception of value has changed a lot since I find a much better value going out to concerts and parties (weekly).
This is one of the greater videos you have done Mike and the bar was set pretty high. So cool to get a video like this. Now I think you said in a previous video that we are comparing g the access to music today compared to back in the day and that is something that I think is something you have to ad to the debate but in a way has nothing to do with records. Also I feel like back in the day you bought one or two records. Now I have customers buying 5 records and complaining. We are spoiled and want more. We want the money that we spend to go in to a physical product that should compete with as much value of music as your play list on Spotify and obviously it can’t. I bought a collection from a guy last week. 200 records. From late 60 til cd era. He was a huge music fan but couldn’t afford buying more in his life time the years vinyl was the main listening medium. Hell, I bought 200 new records easy the past 2-3 years…. We have to put records in perspective. It’s a collectible that also comes with music. 😀 I love the debate. Will follow the comments with great joy!! //Jonas
Yes, we all want all of our walls covered by records because a few UA-cam channels makes them look so good. 😂 The fact is that most folks who showcase those on their channels have been at it for 30 years. Perspective!
@@danijelsan81I got most of my basic collection 20 years ago. The Stones, Beatles, Dylans, Young and so forth. Back then they were a euro or two per record. But I do t get hung up on how it was before. I just feel lucky I was there, had the interest and got them back when no one else wanted them. Today it’s the same with cds. You get them for a euro or two and people are throwing them in the dump. Imagine being a cd collector today. Maybe we will sit and talk about them the same way in 10-20 years.
It doesnt matter a whit about the history---it is that EVERYTHING is much more expensive and people cant and wont spend well above 36$ on a record even if they could afford tthe equivalent in 1978 or 1985 or whenever.
Many comments have been made about wage stagnation, but the Median inflation-adjusted hourly earnings of wage and salary workers in the United States in 1979 was $16.75. In 2022, it was $18.12
do bands even rent studio time anymore?
@insearchofruss I think Mike’s point was that these are “inflation-adjusted” numbers. But what Mike’s point misses is how much more expensive things like college, housing, and health care have become relative to wages and everything else - that’s where finances have gotten a lot more complicated for a lot of people. And also the widening gap between the middle class and the super rich - this is not directly to the issue at hand, but has been very destabilizing for society IMO.
Don't forget the outrageous sales taxes we pay here in California. Also just a couples years ago, you would send me LP's without charging sales taxes which really helped.
1979 is the year wage stagnation started, a completely bad place to strart comparisons. Even still, I can't think of a single commodity that only went up by 8% after 45 years.
If the minimum wage from 1968 kept up with inflation, that would be over $12/hr today. If the minimum wage kept up with productivity, which it had up till the beginning of stagnation, wages would be over $20/hr. The math just doesn't math that records aren't more expensive for the average person.
But don't you today have a much smaller group of people that make up the middle class today that can buy things like records
I don’t think people are talking comparatively with the 50s or 60s but just in the past four years. At the beginning of the pandemic most vinyl was $18-$25. Now those same records are ranging from $25-$40. Even some non-audiophile titles that give no extras are going for around $35.
@@user-qr7ee2cp4y Oh, yeah, used has gotten even worse. Everything now is at least $15.
Bingo
Yeah, this was the case in Norway as well. Today they cost over $45.
Yes, but it's not just about the vinyl. I don’t understand why people think vinyl records should remain the same price when everything else like housing, rent, oil, and other costs has gone up.
Adjusted for inflation they have not become more expensive. Problem is that wages have not kept up with inflation making records harder to acquire.
Exactly, Records take up a bigger percentage of income than what they were in the past.
Those inflation calculators tend to underplay the inflation as well.
@@Mr.BigSquidthat means that when adjusted for inflation records today should cost even more than they do. 😮
The difference is back them i'd have to buy a record for every albums I wanted to hear or every album I liked a bit. These days I can just stream the albums I like a bit or want to hear a few times and only buy the albums I love
Just wait until the tariffs hit.
Nice to hear a record store owner tell us records are not more expensive!
Just double the price since 2020.
calculations like this always ignore wage stagnation
And the calculators are always under other adjusted estimates. Arguably, inflation data by the US Gov is understated. Not including homes? Some their calculations are less than transparent.
I've gone up $8 an hour over the past 3 years. Steel baby. Steel. And dudes at gas stations make $15 which is crazy high. Perhaps you need a new career path?
I see a lot of the complaints coming from people on the Hoffman forum with $50,000+ stereo systems, so I doubt wage stagnation is driving those particular complaints (I realize that’s not everybody though).
hoffman is not representative of planet earth
ahouts out all y'all rich guys though
@ It’s representative of a lot of annoying complainers though, which is more of what happens there (also I’m not rich and my stereo system cost less than $2k total)
I just quit buying clothes this year. I may look like a dust bowl refugee, but I got some great records this year
Unfortunately you're missing the point. It doesn't matter what it cost in the 50's or 60's. What matters is income to inflation ratio. Record prices (along with everything else) keep going up, but wages aren't keeping up for the average American. So people need to cut down on something, and that "something" is non-essential items like records....
💯 Regardless, comparing nominal prices over the decades is somewhat useful, but does not provide a full picture. It’s just one point of view.
I feel this maybe misses one point, people aren't comparing the costs of vinyl now to then, they are comparing it to contemporary options. I can go "well this album is about the same or cheaper than it was in 1965, so there's no problem", but if i can stream it for free or get more permanent copies way cheaper (or free), then that's the comparison for everyone who isn't buying for audiophile or collectable reasons. I've also noticed an extra one, if you don't have the money or space for a quality hifi set up, then a lot sounds the same, do why bother with the expense, space and inconvenience for little to no added quality.
Bingo! It's disappointing that music streaming is overlooked in this video. It's a key reason people are cutting cable, even though prices aren't higher, with alternatives like Netflix and Hulu now available.
The issue is not that records have gotten more expensive; clearly, they have. It's that records are too expensive. A record under $25 is an impulse purchase. Something I will take a chance on. Anything above that needs to be an intentional, vetted purchase. This has taken some of the fun out of collecting. Some labels do a good job with budget vinyl. Plenty of Blue Note records under $20. But my experience has been that anything new will hover around $30. That is enough of an increase for me to think twice and buy less.
Hello Mike,
Using your same school if though, I looked up the average annual salary in 1965. It was $6500, crazy to think. Then I went to see what that would square to in 2024. It equals roughy $65K and change. Then I looked up what is the average annual salary in 2024 and it is tough $59k and change.
So that one of the other comments made, the rate of salary increase doesn’t correlate with the cost of living. Now if it did, then yes, your analysis would be correct. The dollar doesn’t go nearly as far as it did in that past and no one has the extra income to spend on anything like they did in the 1960’s, 1980’s. The only other time when things were this bad were the 1970’s, but outside of that decade, the dollar had a ton of value.
Absolutely. Depreciation of one’s purchasing power impoverishes us slowly but surely over time. Folks from many countries who earn their living in currencies other than the global reserve currency 💵 know this phenomenon all too well.
Yeah, I just simply have less expendable income. When I go to the grocery store and it is $300 for less food that I used to get 5 years ago, I buy fewer records. I can't eat a record.
Yep... and, not to sound Snarky or 'Poor Me', but for people who DO happen to have a lot of money, they don't feel it like we do. Sure, THEY can go out and pay whatever for records no matter the price, but as I argue in detail in my comment above, when things costed what they did in 1965, going out and paying $3.95 for a record was no big deal. With bloody everything costing 20x more now, going out and buying a damn record for $40 is not so easy. So, you know where they can put their 'Inflation Calculator'... 😁
Good video Mike! But, I'm afraid that just using an 'Inflation Calculator' in a Vacuum, doesn't even come close to the impact of what records cost now BALANCED with other common costs, which are absolutely NOT equal.
For example... Let's say early 1965 or so. My Dad worked at a grocery store full time making $2 an hour. With that, we had a nice, small 2 BR house with a great front and back yard. Also, we had a decent fairly newer car AND my Dad was able to save up for a really nice used BMW 600. AND... they were able to go to L.A. for the week (we lived north of San Diego) and with a hotel, luch, dinner, and a show every day, and the traveling there and back all came to about $100.
So sure... a record at $3.95 at that time is directly equivalent to a record costing say $35 or $40 now, okay... BUT... at that same time you were able to do all that OTHER stuff and live life and have a nice house and buy nice stuff and do nice things AND buy the F'n record for $3.95. Sooooo... can you do all that stuff now AND buy the damn record for $40...? See what I mean. So, to me personally, just using an 'Inflation Calculator' and saying, 'See, records are basically the same price now' is TOTAL Bull$h*t, because it doesn't even BEGIN to equate with 'Real Life' now.
In 1965 you were paying $50 / month for a nice small 2BR house, and could buy that $3.95 record. Now, paying $2500+ / month for the same small house, can you now just as easily go out and pay $40 for that record. Don't think so... And add in the 20x more gasoline is, plus everything else. Now, with all this other everyday Normal $h*t costing so much, going out and paying $40 for that record has a HELL of a lot more impact now than it did 60 years ago. Unless of course... You have a lot of money like you do and don't feel it the way most of us do (for normal stuff...) A serious argument I truly think.
I walked into the biggest audio chain store in Australia the other week and saw Daft Punks RAM reissue with a $84.99 price tag on it.
I actually bought the original when it came out in 2013 from the exact same store for $29.95
Records haven’t gone up much in the last few years but groceries and everything else has. The first things people drop from there lives is hobbies. Another big problem is vinyl has to compete with “ Free” music.
Pressing quality today is atrocious compared to then. Can't tell you how many times it's taken me 3-4 tries to get a copy of something that isn't damaged. After 2-3 attempts for vinyl, I now go to the CD.
I don't recall non-fill issues back in the early days, excessive warpage was more of an issue. Non-fill seems to be the main issue these days.
Spare a thought for international buyers, most of the audiophile releases our US mates get for around $35-40 we end up paying double or even more for, in most countries in Europe, Australia, NZ etc.
This doesnt really check out in the UK. I worked in HMV in 1988 .90% of new albums were £7.99 which is £21.64 in todays money, I would say the average standard vinyl record in the Uk is about £27-£29. The crucial thing is pressing quality I bought about 1000 new records between about 81-94..I can only think of 2 records where I had a pressing issue. Ive bought about about 150 standard new records from 2016 onwards , I would say 30-40 of them suffered horrible surface noise & just sit on my unplayed pile. TBH I'd be happy to pay more today if 33% of what I bought wasnt unplayable..& lets not get started on sleeve quality. The standard vinyl product today is pretty slapdash therfore for me price is almost irrelevant. They can sell them to me for a buck..but if it sounds sub par i'm not playing it, I might as well stream
The UK created its own issues with Brexit, that’s why, I’ve been buying records since the 70s, quality now in general is far better than before IF you understand which pressing plants and labels to buy, nothing has changed there, was exactly the same back in the day.
@@SpyderTracks Well Brexit was probably the worst day of my life so I'll agree with you there & it actually reduced me to tears, but thats another story. I've bought about 5000 records since 1982, unfortunately my interest is tunes rather thats labels & pressing plantsif a band with a good tune happens to be on a good label with a decent pressing plants, thats a bonus but as I said I had about 2 bad pressings up to 94, i'm running at about 33% now.m ive no reason to lie, i want this records to sound good because the eighties first pressings are often £200 plus. I bought an OG of The Meat Puppets 2 yesterday, it sounds glorius. 😊
Mike. Like your videos but your analysis is flawed here. Yes records adjusted for inflation are the same or more than today. The PROBLEM is the average person spending power has not increased in proportion to match it. For example if a copy of revolver is adjusted for inflation to make that an equal comparison you would also have to believe that income has increased 10x since the sixties. Do we think a job that made $15k in the 60s now makes $150k? I don't think so
Your analysis is flawed too. Most households have 2 incomes today.
Salaries have increased that much. Without question
@@analogdanielif you think the average household in the US makes $150k, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
The average family income in 1957 was about $4800. The buying power of that same $4800 today is $411. See the problem???
When I started out buying records in my teens I got vinyl because I could not afford a cd. In Sweden Verve Urban Hyms were the equivalent of 18 euro. I still have it and the sticker to remind me.
Back then I went to all the used vinyl places in town because a used cd was 10 euro but you could get vinyl records for 1-2 euro. So I bought that instead. I got more music for my money.
Today, if I dident think I could afford vinyl I would go for cds. I know it’s like comparing g apples and pears but it’s the biggest physical format along with vinyl so as a collector of music I think it’s a pretty good option.
Today it’s the other way around. People go to the store, can’t afford the vinyl but go down the street and get cds for 1 euro. People are throwing cd collection’s at the dump! Sounds familiar??
I have worked hard to get where I am and I’m one of the privileged that can keep on collecting records due to my gallery and having a core collection to trade and sell from. I’m sticking with vinyl. But maybe we will sit there in 20 years time and say the same thing about cds.
I love this video and the debate. //Jonas
Here's the thing - when you press digital files onto a slab of wax and try to re-sell it to me for the 10th time, I'm not going to buy it. If the label decides to put the work in, and show me there's actual value there with the pressing, and mastering - I'll buy it. Example being like the Beatles in Mono set, that was a fantastic value but labels are cutting corners, mostly by using subpar mastering, or a subpar pressing plant, therefore the perceived value for me has declined. YMMV
When people complain about the price I believe they are more referring to the cost of the used market going up compared to say 5-10 years ago. That and people believe they’re not getting value for their money. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve read people’s comments about newly pressed vinyl sounds sub par compared to stuff pressed 30-50 years ago.
But the quality of the records were better than todays records, quality control is still an issues and 90% of the new records are digital sourced. There’s nothing worse than popping down a brand new record for $34.99 and discovering it’s full of pops and surface noise. Also original pressing prices are through the roof, I was shocked at the prices I saw at a recent record fare here in NY area, WFMU fare. The bubble needs to burst.
At a bookstore today I saw brand new '"Rumors" by Fleetwood Mac LP at $28.99 for a new CD of the same title in the store it was $10.99
Metallica remasters are $5 on cd at Wal Mart and in the $25 range for vinyl. A common as dirt title Steve Miller's Greatest Hits is $34 on vinyl or I can keep the cd I got at a thrift for a quarter. ABBA Gold for $50????
appreciate what you are saying BUT: here in europe a Tone Poet was 45 euros 3 years ago. It is now 59 euros where I live. The dollar euro ex. rate played a part as the dollar got stronger over the euro during this period. But this is a significany price hike for the european consumer so no wonder sales of high end records are falling or at least stabilising. I know the prices because I leave the price tags on my records.
CD prices are interesting. 90s new release: $20. Today new release: $20.
In Sweden a used cd cost 10euro 25 years ago. Today it’s 1 euro.
I love collecting records but I have also started to get back in cd. It’s a great time to get used cds now.
The problem is back in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s almost nobody was paying retail prices for albums at record stores (unless they were uninformed or desperate). When I was growing up, the easiest place to find records were department stores and at my local one all their albums would be discounted every single weekend. As record store chains became dominant in the 70’s and 80’s, they rarely sold records at full retail prices. But today, it is a rarity for local independent record stores to sell albums below retail prices unless they’re having a special sale or they’re trying to get rid of albums that aren’t selling (such as Adele’s latest album). I know of one nearby record store that has the gall to price new album releases slightly ABOVE retail prices (pleading the high costs of having a business in that neighborhood). This is one of the consequences when records (or physical product) no longer sell in the millions but, instead, sell in the thousands.
Wow! I wouldn't have thought that records have actually gotten cheaper of the years. Also appreciated your insights about collectables and price memory. Thanks for offering some interesting perspectives.
I think a better comparison is what they cost to produce then and now
Why?
The EPA is not your friend these days. Companies have to use additional methods to produce the same end product they did back in the day resulting in higher production cost.
This is a good point. Back then, records were all Pabst Blue Ribbon. Today they're craft beer.
but all factors - for example even major artists rarely spend $100K or etc on recording now.
The other compelling argument is that records in the 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s were really the only way to get the music and as time marches on the starting in the 80’s more options - now today you get stream music for free, that’s a challenge to similar pricing of yesteryear. People like you and me collectors and real music lovers no problem but everyone else doesn’t think like this - this is why physical media is reaching a peak and will be difficult to maintain otherwise you would see national chains stores again Tower, Wherehouse, Music Plus etc.
Great video. I think there are two reasons that it feels like records are getting more expensive even though they aren't. Everything else is getting more expensive and so when the cost of a house or rent, food, gas and seemingly everything else is way up, we see "luxury" items like records as a straw breaking the camel's back. I personally don't consider music a luxury but let's admit that many if not most people do. The second reason is that Spotify and UA-cam have got people used to having music for free or next to free. Even though paying for an audiophile disc is very different than paying 10 bucks or so for Spotify, it's still a psychological issue that didn't exist pre-internet.
I’ve always liked to measure things in “hours of work”. In 1981 I was in high school, I got my first job at $3.50/hr. I still have albums that I bought with the $5.99 price tag on them. A high school kid today working $15/hr still needs to work almost 2 hours to buy an album, just like I did.
The older we get we completely forget about inflation. When you factor in audiophile quality like Rhino Hifi, audiophile reissues have come down enormously when original MoFi editions were around $30 which was around 4x the cost of a normal record at the time. Nowadays even a BlueNote Tone Poet or Analogue Productions 45 comes in around double the cost of a normal record.
Very valid episode. When I began collecting in the 60s, I purchased records when possible. Hearing people say how expensive records are do this calculation.
Take your annual compensation, multiply by 1.30 (cost to include benefits), then divide by 2000 (number of hours worked yearly) to arrive at your hourly pay rate. For most, your hourly date will be higher than the cost of most, including audiophile, records.
A great video Mike! Thank you. My feelings on it as a 62-year-old man who is collected records since he was 10 is that I don’t feel comfortable paying more than $30 for any record.
It’s true that today we have a lot more availability for great sounding records but with expendable money and record albums, it’s tough to justify taking more than $30-$50 out a week to buy a single album. I wish albums today were just 20 bucks.
To complicate this even more is that my feelings are to have a set of records that I’ve always loved that I didn’t own as a child, Yet I’m very happy Bluetooth streaming most music that I love that. I just don’t feel is worth the price of an album..
Just got back from a local record show, and compared to the last year I went, the prices have jumped up a crazy amount. Records I used to find at this show last year were around $15-$30 more expensive this time around. Still found some decent deals, but my god the prices for most of them were just ridiculous.
Chad, at Acoustics Sounds, seems to never miss an annual increases in his prices. He also forces you to use FedEx, which is more expensive than the post office, on his UHQR lps that the buyer is always expected to pay.
Chad is nothing but a used car salesman to me. The prices he charges I think are extremely high
I found this really really interesting. You did a lot of work on this video, congrats and thank you 🤗
The orange vinyl barnes and noble of living in a material world, single lp is 42.99...great video hope you join the playhouse!
I've been buying cds instead because of prices and the space that you need to store them.
For Canadian record buyers we greatly affected by the currency exchange. A record on your website that is listed for $35 $USD is $51 $CDN. Retailers in Canada would sell that same record at $55. Wages in Canada are usually comparable to US wages. Inflation is higher here so are impacted on record prices.
And on top of that. A lot of records are pressed in Canada then sent to the USA and then imported back. Who gets to pay for all that travel and import fees for a record that was manufactured in Canada to begin with! Urgh. It boggles my mind.
In the 50’s, 60’s and into 70’s, vinyl was pretty much a consumers only option for buying recorded music. If back then all music was available for $1 a month, those prices would have been much lower.
You’re right that records are often cheaper than in the past. But that’s because in the past records were considered the luxury format. When CDs came along they were considered the luxury format, so they became more expensive than records. Also, it’s not that records are more or less expensive than before, but that they are the most expensive format compared to other formats today, such as CDs or streaming. Finally, the total cost of ownership of a vinyl record, when you include the hardware you need to play, and store your records, is much more expensive.
Outstanding video, thank you Mike. Here's a data point: I recall buying an Alice and Chains Jar of Flies double LP (EP, with etching on side 4) in 1994 for $20.
Which pricing ?
Collector gauging or manufacturing costs.
Hi Mike, Thanks for this informative video since 1985 I have been noting the amounts of purchase, before that time say from 1973 to 1985 I did not note amounts of purchase.
It doesn't really matter that I didn't note amounts back then, it's about collecting and not the amounts I paid.
But nevertheless it is good to know that the prices nowadays are not too extreme compared to the old days. Best regards from The Netherlands.
I've done similar calculations over here in the UK. Vinyl and cassettes were relatively more expensive back in the 80s and 90s
I have been recollecting vinyl for over 10 years. It used to be fun to go in to a local record store and find those old records that were anywhere from $3 to $10. There was also an aha! exciting moment when you did find those old records at a reasonable price - definitely a dopamine hit! Those days are gone. I also am a bit more frugal these days because most of the records I buy are over $30. I remember buying a record around $50 recently And it made me think about how much do I really want to spend moving forward on records. Just a thought.
Truth.
Another thought. And I got this from talking to my parents and their friends who were young in the 60’s and 70’s with their first house. Yeah maybe it’s not that much more factoring inflation but it doesn’t mean that people back then also didn’t think records were expensive. They were a bit pricey back then and are a bit pricey now. Two things. Now people have other options to listen to music so there is that. But even back then most peoples record collections never exceeded 50 records and were usually around 20. They didn’t have ikea shelves upon shelves to store hundreds of records. Record buying will diminish once they have a small novel collection of records because it’s too expensive to keep buying records every week for most people.
Problem for me isn't the price, its the quality. The goddamn off center pressings and warps have gotten absurd. I can handle a warp b/c I can fix it but the off-center pressing, poor quality vinyl is the reason things are slowing down. I just buy old pressings now for the most part, just so sick of the hype of getting an album to open it only to find its crap. Even RTI and QRP fall into this, seems to come in waves when Chad is rushing to press things.
Problem is wages not going to keep up with inflation
inflation eats into the cost of everything. From Bread to new cars to vinyl records. The dollar does not go as far as it used to 5 years ago let alone 10 years or 20 years ago. You need more and more of them to achieve equivalent buying power each year.
Some things cannot be calculated using inflation. It's about how much technology cost then and now. So 25 years ago a 32inch LCD flat screen was $1000 if you got a deal, now you can get a 70inch for that price with better quality. CD manufacturing cost much more in the 80's. Then they got greedy even when it would cost $1 to manufacture and still charge $18-$19.
Yes, CD manufacturing in its infancy requires capital investment which first needed to paid off before it could generate free cash flow. Once that was paid off margins likely improved significantly. Prices wouldn’t have been reduced until the demand for CDs signaled to the manufacturers that they should give up some of that margin. Micro Econ 101.
No offense
, but of course you're going to say they haven't gotten more expensive because this is your livelihood. unfortunately you're not really comparing Apples to Apples because in the 70s and 80s records were the only way to get your music therefore they could be priced accordingly. nowadays there's many more Avenues two consume music. I think this can all be debated of course but from every record dealer I know and watch I can see all the nervousness in your eyes because the bubble is breaking
I stopped buying sometime last year, after collecting vinyl for 20+ years. So for me, it’s never stopped getting more expensive because I started when virtually every album was in the dollar bin. Having said that, the jump in used vintage record prices over the last few years has been nuts. I don’t really give a damn about reissues, so I’d much rather see a video on inflation adjusted prices of vintage records.
Yes. I think that many of the 'complaints' or contrasts being lamented over may also be moreso directed towards the rising cost of pre-owned/2nd hand/'vintage' vinyl over the last 10+ years, and exponentially post-Covid era. This has also been more recently exacerbated by a sharp rise in postage costs as well, particularly international post. So, yes, I would be interested to watch a companion piece regarding inflations adjusted prices of 'used' records and the 'vintage' market. Still, I did find this to be an intersting, thought-provoking video. Thanks.
Mike, you're overlooking the fact that the average earnings for year-round, full time workers was around $4700 in late 1950s. This is nearly $53,000 when adjusted and not much different than what we have today. But compare it now with cost of living and consumer expenditures in the 1950s...
A better headline would be “Have Vinyl Records Become More Expensive”
Well,the thing is that the freely spendable part of the average wage earners income shrunk consirably in recent years while record prices
went up in two digit numbers on average in the same time. Hence an even stronger feeling that prices went through the roof.
Today with the many media available for free it is fair to say the market got so much narrower and market forces will show what fair price is… if too expensive less vinyls will be produced, simple
Yes, the market forces are taking care of this. This is a niche hobby and it will remain a niche hobby. It’s likely that we’re slowly going back to reduced pressing batches, etc. Buy now or cry later, as they say.
Its not that records have gotta that expensive, its like you said, everything is more expensive, your dollar isnt going as far, and a big part of that is the monthly bills we didnt have 20 years ago even. Here in Canada insurance premiums are through the roof. When you have monthly bills for internet/phone/auto insurance/car payment/mortage/property tax/home insurance etc before you even get to groceries, yeah that 35$ record looks damn expensive at the end of the day lol
What I hate is that records I paid 2 dollars for 8 years ago now go for 20.
And in the 60s and 70s you couldn't get access to all the music in the world for free or nearly so.
Great analysis, Mike! The biggest jump I’ve seen is in the used big rock records. For example, in 2017, I picked up a beautiful copy of Dire Straits’ Brothers in Arms at The In Groove (back at the old Thomas Rd. location) for just $5. Two years later, you and others were pricing it at $15 to $20.
So, the entrepreneur, who doesn’t give a hoot if you or your family misses a meal or a rent payment or two justifies the price increase so he can keep ahead of the game. I get it, self preservation, but some things just never change. And, I get that his costs have increased as well, but somewhere along the line the bubble has to break, right?
YEP. thank you Mike.. DjJoey rules...✌️🤘 edit: you're so right about the availability today.. doesn't seem that long ago it was just me and 6bor 8 others digging it felt like😂 I hope that was one humdinger of a good plasma TV..😁
If today’s $25.99 “Here’s Little Richard” is really comparable to the 1957 original I will gladly make that trade.
@TheInGroove I have a related question that I'm hoping you can answer: Do the third party audiophile reissue labels impose any pricing restrictions on their resellers at all? I ask because several of your biggest competitors insist on listing most or all of their Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab and Analogue Productions titles as "Not eligible for further discount," but you don't do this at The In Groove. That stuff isn't restricted from you % off sales. Is it just a choice that those in charge of a given reseller make based on the margins of specific titles/ranges of titles? Thanks!
Cool look at vinyl pricing of today versus yesterday. The inflation factor is most definitely a good way to compare our current prices against prices over the decades but I would add WAGES and EARNINGS into the equation. When I started buying records as a teen I made a part time wage of $2.75 an hr in the mid 70's, records cost more than min wage each. By the mid 80's I was earning around $10 per hr and again new vinyl cost one hour of work each on average, used were a much cheaper option of course. The 90's were all about CD's and they cost more than I made per hr for sure. Today I make a very good living and am debt free so buying vinyl is my guilty pleasure and although it is expensive I try to buy smart and am selective in what I buy. A album now costs less or the same as my hourly rate so times have not changed much really. 🥂 Cheers 🥂
Excellent video and a nice overview of where we have been/are from a record buying point of view. As you know, cost/price "perspective" incorporates multiple facets/factors. One of the single biggest obstacles is the availability of similar options that are or are seemingly "free" such as "streaming". When the general public has access to and gets used/accustomed to "free" whether it be music (streaming) or money (interest rates close to zero) any amount of "additional" money/costs equates to the "perspective" of things (records) being more expensive even when taking things in a historical/inflationary perspective. This is totally understandable although from a collector/fan perspective, I know that records (any physical media, actually) were NOT cheaper back in the day and one could even argue that not only were they MORE expensive, they should have been far less expensive due to the scale of manufacturing that vinyl enjoyed when it was the dominant format. One can also make the argument that with the emphasis on quality control on the entire manufacturing process including mixing and mastering new and archive releases (unfortunately, recording quality has taken a big step backward in most cases) has significantly improved. I worked in three (3) different record stores in Sacramento, CA from 1986 through 1991 while attending college (CSUS) and watched as cassettes and CD's took over market dominance from vinyl. Everyone kept waiting for the prices of CD's to come down as the pressing plants came online in the United States (previously CD's were manufactured in Japan and West Germany for the entire world market). Well, we all know that didn't happen as the prices of new release CD's hovered in the $16 to $20 range for decades! I will end by saying that I have been very pleased by the quality and diversity of product that has/is being released these past 10 years and feel I am getting good value for the money spent on the music that has brought me much happiness throughout my life. I do find it ironic that nobody is comparing the cost(s) of what we used to pay for concert tickets for even the BIG bands/artists to what it costs to go to ANY show today.
I would totally agree with you by knowing a significant percentage would go to the artists, mastering engineer, pressing company and maybe jackets.
Label would need to lower their share as these are not new bands.
But this is something controlled by contracts and we go to other areas.
I fully agree with you that records will probably cost the same in any year because world is build like this.
The inly difference today is the records volume ppl would like to purchase vs the old days. The purchasing power is the same. The desire to own more is bigger. 🤷♂️
Popping a few numbers in a random inflation calculator doesn’t mean much . Wages haven’t kept up, and there’s also been a great deal of discretionary income compression.
With wages it depends. In 1975 records were $4-$6. I made about $4 an hour, so 1.5 hours I could buy an album. Minimum wage here in Seattle today is $15 so nearly the same to buy a record. Hopefully people make more than min wage. These national min wage is a bit over $7 and hasn’t been increased since 2009 That’s obscene.
Let me give you an example: Tone poets here in Europe where I live (I know becuse I keep the price stickets on the records) were 45 euros 3 years ago. Theyt are now 55 euros. No wage increase can match that. So the answer is YES. Dont foirget the dollar euro exchange rate. Stronger dollar means more expensive records in europe. So a very strong YES
Really interesting video! Thank you Mike!
And now that Tool album is worth a fortune. Its funny, i randomly wandered into your store yesterday as i was hitting up record stores while in town for the weekend. I was checking on thats 90s pressing of Undertow lol. Now this video randomly came up in my feed today. What a coincidence.
The great thing is that we don’t have to buy everything out there. We can be selective on purchases and stream. I will continue to buy.
Yeah, thanks to folks like you!
Agreed. I was in the biz in the 90s. Sold vinyl for nothing because no one bought vinyl. Imported it as special orders for the few that wanted it. CDs are simply much cheaper and the variants available are so numerous. Pic discs, colored vinyl, etc. I like certain music on vinyl. I'll buy jazz and my favorite bands on vinyl. If it's Coltrane or Black Sabbath I buy it. I don't need Slayer or Sepultura on vinyl.
* Bestie and I watched your UA-cam video about the price of records. You are quite accurate.
Allow me to share more perspective.
According to Pew Research from a few years ago, the Purchasing Power of the $2 Minimum Wage of the 1970s requires a pay rate of about $30 in 2024.
Albums list price back then was $2.99 or $3.99, stores typically sold albums at 50c than list.
Thus, $30 for a new album today is a fair and honest price. The problem is that Congress Republi-cons refuse to increase the Minimum Wage to maintain an equivalent Purchasing Power from five decades ago. A stagnant Minimum Wage reflects stagnant wages along the economic pay scale.
*
Understandable. As a record maker or seller I would argue the same. As all sellers do these days whatever it is.
Does it really require vinyl lp price inflation projections over decades to explain the current vinyl lp market situation in which pricing pains are expressed or isn‘t it just market oversaturation leading to less purchases at less disposable income for nice-to-have items?
The effect will simply be short term more discounting on increasing overstocks and longer term a reduction in releases and pressing quantities. The market will go back to normal with hopefully a fiercer competition on quality-price value.
You are correct, prices are not nearly as good as they were 5 years ago.
I think the rate/percentage prices increased from say 2015 to 2023/24 is what is shocking to a lot of people, long time collectors in particular. It just seems that jump happened so quickly compared to the previous four or five decades, it caught a lot of us by surprise. Thanks for the video Mike.
Great video!
I recently realised that (new) lp prices of today are on par with prices the year I stopped buying lps and switched to cds; 1987.
That realisation put things in perspective....
I am lucky I never really stopped buying vinyl after 87 so I experienced the "good times" of vinyl hunting.
Second hand cost next to nothing, as was new.
Happy days!
Well these days are over and we are back to normal😉
Regards
Rob
Netherlands
Records are more expensive today than they ever have been. This will be reflected on lower sales for the foreseeable future.
This is simple…yes
Hi prices here in the UK ,have rocket and when there are special recordings or limited runs we get hit harder for import taxes and shipping, so now I have to realy ask myself do I keep buying vinyl
I feel your pain on Apple. My mom sold all her Apple stock in 1995 or something like that, and it would have been worth tens of millions today
Great fact hitting take on the current market fatigue - well done 👍🏻
I just wish all these pressing plants would make the spindle holes big enough. That’s the biggest problem I have with records these days.
My take on it is most used records are overpriced..that said i can almost always get a used lp at the price i want on eBay.. usually can find a seller who is willing to sell at reasonable price
I only even buy 2nd hand now, unless it’s something I really want that’s impossible to find in the wild like original blue notes, archival live releases etc
Records still might “feel” more expensive today b/c incomes haven’t kept up with rising essential costs (esp. housing, healthcare, education debt) - leading to tighter discretionary budgets. Plus, way more stuff is now competing for our discretionary dollars.
Thanks for the insights, Mike. I feel the same. There are too many opinions and very few arguments being said. It’s nice to have things put into perspective. Felipe
Hi. It's Eliot Wien from NYC. Yes, The prices are getting too high for vinyl!!! But, I will admit as a Beatles collector, the recent Living in the Material World by George Harrison is fairly priced on all configurations. The recent Stop and Smell the Roses, and Old Wave picture discs by Ringo Starr are also fairly priced. I also believe the recent Talking Heads 77 release is also fairly priced. Maybe the Record Companies are starting to listen to us!!!!
Audiphile??
I pay $25 for lossless streaming. 😂
Whilst, as many have stated, wage stagnation hasn't been taken into consideration. Today's rental prices and mortgages are significantly higher than back in the day.
The Hipster records that sell for 500$ now might sell for 5$ in 10 years or 5000$, impossible to predict what might happen. If you are buying as an investment, bear this in mind.
After digesting a bit more this video:
1. Ppl want to buy more records today. Prices are mostly at the same level. Agreed!
2. Production costs for new records can’t be calculated much taking into account the music on them is old. Is a new product any way we look at it, made under today’s costs. 🤷♂️
3. Back in the days ppl were not really collecting records. They were exchanging them, did not cared much about them and even traded them with friends way more easily than what today’s behaviors are. This adds to the purchasing power of an individual too!
I totally agree with Mike here. Prices can’t be lower because they are produced by ppl today under today’s costs. 🤷♂️
Used records prices are also growing naturally for the same reason.
$24.99 = £19.79. I wish we could by LPs in the UK for £19.79. They seem to be around £25 - £31.
Yes- but it’s the fricking shipping that kills that! Discogs will show you a reasonably priced item but then the shipping factors in double what the record cost. UGH!
I'm thinking the high cost of records has to do with looking back at crazy spending some did during pandemic.
Personally my perception of value has changed a lot since I find a much better value going out to concerts and parties (weekly).
This is one of the greater videos you have done Mike and the bar was set pretty high. So cool to get a video like this.
Now I think you said in a previous video that we are comparing g the access to music today compared to back in the day and that is something that I think is something you have to ad to the debate but in a way has nothing to do with records.
Also I feel like back in the day you bought one or two records. Now I have customers buying 5 records and complaining. We are spoiled and want more. We want the money that we spend to go in to a physical product that should compete with as much value of music as your play list on Spotify and obviously it can’t.
I bought a collection from a guy last week. 200 records. From late 60 til cd era. He was a huge music fan but couldn’t afford buying more in his life time the years vinyl was the main listening medium. Hell, I bought 200 new records easy the past 2-3 years…. We have to put records in perspective. It’s a collectible that also comes with music. 😀
I love the debate. Will follow the comments with great joy!! //Jonas
Yes, we all want all of our walls covered by records because a few UA-cam channels makes them look so good. 😂 The fact is that most folks who showcase those on their channels have been at it for 30 years. Perspective!
@@danijelsan81I got most of my basic collection 20 years ago. The Stones, Beatles, Dylans, Young and so forth. Back then they were a euro or two per record. But I do t get hung up on how it was before. I just feel lucky I was there, had the interest and got them back when no one else wanted them. Today it’s the same with cds. You get them for a euro or two and people are throwing them in the dump. Imagine being a cd collector today. Maybe we will sit and talk about them the same way in 10-20 years.
It doesnt matter a whit about the history---it is that EVERYTHING is much more expensive and people cant and wont spend well above 36$ on a record even if they could afford tthe equivalent in 1978 or 1985 or whenever.
For the Canadians we have the exchange rate to consider and that is killing us as well as the shipping and cross border fees that are charged.