I'm shocked by people who don't understand Toxic Masculinity. In this instance, 'Toxic' is a descriptive. Much like how people want you to make a difference between ISIS and the rest of Islam; Toxic Masculinity isn't describing all masculinity. Example: Harry Styles. Not the reaction, the lack of reaction. I thought there would be more Men's Rights Activists, and MGTOW members discussing the problems of a woman telling men what to wear. Nope. As of posting this, I still haven't seen anybody from those groups talk about it. I did find a Sandman video telling me that my friends aren't real. Just adding "Men and Women can't be friends" under Toxic Masculinity.
This is a complete cop out & doesn't address the rightful criticism that lunatics who push the pathology behind "toxic masculinity" theory deserve. You always respond by saying "it doesn't mean all masculinity is toxic", but when you are asked what masculine traits are "not" toxic, NONE of you can answer it. Because ALL masculine traits are considered toxic. In fact, the American Psychology Association *explicitly* stated in their guidelines how to treat men & boys that masculinity - ON THE WHOLE - was harmful, and that it lead to death & crime. It didn't make the distinction of "toxic" masculinity. It didn't say "part of masculinity". It said, masculinity "on the whole"... said to be marked by traits like competitiveness, stoicism, aggression, etc. You cannot name ONE "positive" masculine trait that gender ideologues wouldn't consider toxic. Competitiveness? Toxic. Stoicism? Toxic. Aggression? Toxic. Dominance? Toxic. Providing? Toxic. Selflessness? Toxic. Providing? Toxic. Power? Toxic. Strength? Toxic. Sexuality? Toxic. These are the biological pilars of masculinity. They are not "social constructs". And they are widely considered to be toxic by feminists. ALL of them. What "positive" masculinity remains? This isn't something any of you cowards have ever addressed. Because you can't.
I'm sad to see so many negative comments. I thought this was a great video. Joe Rogan has done a ton of good spreading the idea of free thinking. I've enjoyed dozens and dozens of his videos. But, I agree that Joe doesn't give a fair chance to the idea of toxic masculinity being real. There is conditioning, in society, making men think they can't express their feelings, without being ridiculed. And it's largely kept in place by other men. It's not in your nature as a man to bottle your feelings, your taught to do it. It is the reason that male depression statistics are so high.
it may not be emotionally healthy for men to supress their emotions but it prevents you from losing other people's respect, specially women. Women don't feel attracted to emotional, weak men. Women usually feel more attraction for fake "toxic" and even actually toxic males. I know your ideas may sound great on paper and I agree that's the way things should utopically be in an ideal world but it fails in practice, it's against human social nature. Women lose attraction for such men and other men lose respect for them. Women can express all of their emotions, cry and do all the drama they want and everybody understands "alright, she's a woman" but that doesn't happen the other way around. Men can only vent to some of their closest friends and relatives, not even GFs and wives. This behavior is perceived as beta. Yeah, I know you will say the red pill is toxic but I actually tried both ways on my own and only the red pill philosophy gave me results in my overall social and romantic life. I appreciate the great work you put into these videos and I can tell you're honest and really have good intentions, that's how I used to be until I felt the need to change and never looked back. I know I won't change your mind and you won't change mine, I just respectfully disagree.
@@rockboy360 a lot of women have also been conditioned by this toxic mindset too, like a lot of mothers and usually the older generation. But that is a part of the problem with toxic masculinity. Of course everyone's preference is different in the traits they want in a person, no matter what there is always going to be people who have a problem with how you act. So its important to put yourself first in that matter where you are being vulnerable for your own benefit and mental health which will make you feel more comfortable with yourself and intern attract the right people. Who cares if some men and women dont respect you, thats there issue. oops this is long
What era do you think this is? You Fake Freaks always speak as if it’s still the 50’s, seriously who are these groups of people who condemn a man for expressing emotion?
Toxic masculinity is a catch all term that makes all men guilty for the misdeeds of the few. It explores societal problems stopping at whatever level that shows men can be blamed. It’s a not so subtle form of male oppression, making men wrong simply for being men.
I agree with the general thesis that Rogan has a tired schtick of being the “dumb male” which he uses as a defense against changing any of his beliefs. BUT, if Rogan were in the room to actually talk to, would he fundamentally disagree with any of the specific points you made here? The traits you list of cultural expectations for male success, ie: aggression, toughness, daring, and dominance (or in your words, “toxic masculinity”) are also positive traits for leading a fulfilling life, regardless of sex or gender. Developing inner toughness, daring, aggression that is not directed at others but towards personal goals, and a feeling of dominance over personal challenges (and not an insecure need to assert oneself on others) are traits that all people can benefit from. I get that your point isn’t against any of these traits in themselves, but the societal expectation and habit of men to act aggressively that is toxic. But the implication of what you’re advocating for becomes gray in effect. When would it be appropriate to call out Rogan for being “aggressive?” What are the characteristics of toxic male aggression as opposed to contextually appropriate aggression? My point is that if you’re going to make a case against Rogan for his backwards attitudes, which I’m all for, you need to make a specific, substantial point. Otherwise he’s just gonna throw claims of his chauvinism back at you as “white knighting” or a “male guilt complex.”
There's also people who use very flimsy definitions of "toxic masculinity" just check out Buzzfeed or Vox for examples. People should be more serious and precise when defining these terms. Sloppy definitions for pathological behaviour can cause people to push back.
“But the bad things have been trending upward with men on the whole for a very long time.” I need some clarification on that statement. What bad things are trending upwards? Was it better in the 1980s? 1940s? 1900s? That seems ... weird.
I think when he said “trending upwards” he was saying that men’s attitudes and actions are getting better with time (which, to some degree, is true). If not, then I think that was a poorly explained statement. He could be citing the increasing number of men gravitating towards outwardly anti-women and/or anti-feminist internet communities, such as incels, MGTOW, and Red Pill communities. Femicide is also on the rise too, I believe.
My thing is, I understand men have "needs" and it's natural, but my thing is, it's not my job to take care of your "needs" if I'm not feeling it right now. And then guilting me about your "needs" makes me want to run away from you. Why can't you take care of your own "needs"? I found a vibrator that works for me and I feel good that I can take care of myself. I think part of the issue is the stigma and shame around masturbation. Bottom line, don't guilt me. Period.
Feel like you might have a point if either Joe Rogan or Jimmy Dore insinuated in any way that that was women's problem to solve or tried to "guilt" women over it. Sounded like they just said "hey, hard to concentrate when you're horny right?"
I used to date a genuine narcissist (not just making it up, certified npd) who loved Joe Rogan and he’d constantly try and aggressively gaslight me out of this exact point even though I knew I HAD to be right. This video was so cathartic for me, wish I found it sooner! Thank you ❤️
I know this is 4 months old video but the problem with the term "Toxic Masculinity" is that it's used often equivocally in both psychological and ideological terms. When people make videos saying we don't understand the "REAL" meaning of the term it's often due to the fact that's it's application is purposely or frivolously applied in a incoherent way. Feminism for example uses it in a finger waving introspective tone towards men, where in contrast they themselves seem to take an extrospective position to women's problems void of any sense of accountability of their own part of the result their currently try to change. Coupled with the sociological doctrine that the west is best categorised as a oppressive patriarchy and as a consequence whatever actions men might take that are forthright and ambitious in participating in that system is seen by their very nature as destructive. I find it very difficult for men to be motivated if this is the fundamental view of society and male participation in it, and why men rebel against the term "toxic Masculinity".
8:51 Omg... Women can't be the sexual subjects (that's "slut" because she explained nuanced personalized desires for a man's certain bodily areas). They can only be the sexual objects (which entails huge physical harm, both sexual and biological and the one-sided enjoyment of sex where the woman 90% of the time faked an orgasm and only had real orgasms when alone). Why shouldn't the man and the woman be the sexual subjects? Why can't we just do away with that archaic dynamic of one-sided enjoyment of sex?
That's what it boils down to, a gross imbalance of what people, both men and women, are taught, the tools they are given to handle their "inborn traits" and "natural urges". How much time is spent on sexual education, not just in the US, but anywhere really... and it's usually just the mechanical stuff, this goes in there, bob's your uncle. And how much time is spent on conditioning kids to be aggressive and superior and tough in the context of sports? How much time of peoples' lives are defined by whether or not they get picked last, how much of a wuss they are when they can't score a goal, or throw up cuz they can't run that fast? And all those supposed accomplishments that Rogan lists off, that women should apparently be thanking toxic masculinity for? Those rocket engineers probably weren't star quarterbacks... Son, can you even put up a shelf? Do you even know what wrench you need to change that tire? Did you even get layed on the weekend, bro? ... Yeah, actually. And you'll no doubt be surprised to learn that I did it without being an asshole. Now get the fuck outa here, and stop crying that we finally figured out a term to call you out for your shitty way of going through life.
I would greatly argue that none enough time is spent on sex ed in the US. My husband thought my ovaries were behind my boobs because of a lack of education.
Well said. The part about women thanking TM for bridge building, etc. - uh, that’s not toxic. That’s good planning, and in some cases, physical/mental strength or endurance. Some of those older clips of Joe were definitely cringeworthy.
Does anyone know what the name of the man at 3:16 is? The topic they were discussing sounded fairly interesting and I would like to listen into it. Thank you!
You pretty much lost me as soon as you began your argument by basically insinuating that if someone agrees with Joe Rogan or disagrees with you it's simply because they have been "conditioned" to think that. Not because they might have opinions of their own that may or may not align with you or Joe.
You misunderstand, masculinity is a good thing. "Toxic masculinity" is bad. 2 different things. Toxic masculinity might as well be called as "macho bullshit". Toxic masculinity is the behavior where we stifle our emotions, over sexualize women, and encourage violence. There are very good aspects of masculinity, such as stoicism, providing for others, protecting others, camaraderie, and much more. These things we protect, the bad parts we destroy. It's easy to confuse the two. TL:DR: toxic masculinity and masculinity are different things. Toxic masculinity bad traits, masculinity goo traits
@@nanobot1994 the thing is, stifling emotions, over sexualising the opposite gender and encouraging violence are not AT ALL a thing perpetuated only by men. These behaviours are nothing to do with masculinity, they are simply done by bad people. I don't like that you're partly defining masculinity as providing for others, btw. Because there are women who embody those behaviours too, except we don't call it positive masculinity when women do it, do we? Providing for others was part of the old gender norms, which you claim to want to do away with, at least partly. If toxic masculinity is defined as men feeling expected to conform to bad gender norms, why is the equal opposite called internalised misogyny and not toxic femininity. Gender norms are largely enforced by women too - anecdotal of course (like most of your arguments, I'd add), but I've heard the phrase "man up" overwhelmingly from women, especially when they're shaming men into doing things for them.
I think this is a good stepping point into the issue of gender relations. However, I also think that you could have developed your arguments more and provided evidence to the generalizations that you made in this video. The takeaway I get from this video is that all men are toxic; It does not matter what a male does, their existence is proof enough that they are toxic. Would you consider yourself toxic Brad, or by quoting females and taking a righteous position that you are somehow not? Where does this toxicity come from and is it something that can be reduced/removed? You cite statistics in favour of your argument, yet you fail to mention the rates of male suicide and assault directed towards men. You posit that toxic masculinity has been trending on the upward, yet you do not provide evidence to back this claim. Yes, Joe Rogan might have said and done some questionable things that he needs to resolve, but overall as a positive male role model to boys and men (there is a lacking of them) he is the best that I have come across.
I have been conditioned in the same country, with the same media. So, yes, I have participated in plenty of toxic behaviors. And it is only when we all recognize that we've taken part in this mindset that we can make positive change toward cooperation with women and each other. There are SO MANY better role models than Rogan. The Rock. Will Smith. Kumail Nanjiani. The list goes on. They are vocal about their support for a new type of masculinity. Rates of male suicide are high, especially in men over 40 because of loneliness and disconnection from others and themselves. Be vulnerable to be strong. That's what my video is about. Thank you for watching it and thanks for your feedback!
@@RealFeelsProject *Rates of male suicide are high, especially in men over 40 because of loneliness and disconnection from others and themselves* Rates of male suicide are on the rise because nobody cares about men i.e. men are perceived as disposable. Don't victim blame men for their discrimination!
@@RealFeelsProject That's like saying all Muslims are Islamists. I'll watch the rest of this video when my BS tolerance is higher. I need to make sure I steelman this one.
@@RealFeelsProject So "positive" male role models are a guy who's been juicing grams of gear every day for years & has a huge ego, a guy who publicly assaults other ppl for the entire world to see & is widely known in the industry to be a huge narcissist & then another guy who started juicing way too much late into his life & whose political opinions doesn't go much further than "men = toxic" for doing the EXACT thing he's doing right now (working out & doing gear). Suffice it to say, you're a horrible person. You equate men to toxicity for no other reason than your garbage feminist ideology compells you to. If "masculinity" was to blame for suicide, then please explain why male suicide is RISING each year, despite the culture being more open towards male "vulnerability"? Furthermore, if it's men's fault, how come women are vastly more likely to be depressed, have anxiety, PTSD, phobias & attempt suicide? You do not present any facts in this video whatsever. It is actually far easier to argue that *femininity* is "toxic" if you're going by this type of logic, considering "feminine" people are actually the ones far more predisposed towards mental illness. Get over yourself.
The thing is... toxic masculinity has been a talking point for a long time. It's not exactly a new concept. Let's go back to 1954 to where William Golding wrote the book, The Lord of the Flies. The plotline of the book follows a group of school boys who are crashed on an island after an airplane they were in wartime evacuation. While the group overall starts with a positive leadership, the boys leading each other after one blows into a conch as a signal to the others and trying their best to survive on the island. Ralph, Piggy, and Simon rise as leaders, and try to tend to surviving a desert island (with the ingenuity of Ralph and Piggy) and protecting the underclassmen of the group (which is mainly strove for by Simon). Things seem to be going well, however, soon, Jack, who leads a group of choir boys, and who was the leader of the group's hunters of the indigenous pig population on the island, begins to lead some boys astray. The first bits of conflict, both psycho-emotional and physical, begin when the signal fire, under Jack's care, is allowed to die. In a violent clash, Piggy's glasses, which was used to start the fire, are broken. Then, later on, when the boys find the body of a deceased pilot who slowly descended by parachute to the island and landed in the trees, mistaken for a monster, tensions rise all the more, and Jack attempts a failed coup, instead resorting to leading his followers away from Ralph, Piggy, and Simon's group. There, in the forest, they erect an offering of a severed pig's head to the monster, which quickly becomes crawling with flies. Simon, while patrolling, protecting, encounters this severed pig's head and faints; while unconscious, he imagines a dialogue between himself and "The Lord of the Flies", this boar-head personified. It mocks him about the pretense of the monster being something to be slain; it's something inside of them, and that Simon is in danger because he represents the soul of man and the others will try to kill him. This omen ends up coming true, and Jack's boys attack those that still follow Ralph, Piggy, and Simon. In a violent clash, Piggy ends up getting murdered by the opposing side, and the conch that brought them all together, shattered. The violence escalates, with the boys who followed Jack behaving manically and lighting the island ablaze while chasing after Simon to murder him. However, Simon eventually comes face-to-face with a British Navy Officer who has come ashore from a warship to investigate the blaze. The boys all revert, crying, and the man cannot help but to look away from the blaze and these boys rendered savage... and to the warship he came from. Anyway, while The Lord of the Flies potentially predates the term "toxic masculinity", I have not researched its etymology, it is a book that is inseparably linked to the concept of toxic masculinity: The Lord of the Flies, its severed head bloated and rotted and infested with maggots in the pacific sun, and the internal monster that it speaks of is Toxic Masculinity. Things can be masculine without being toxic: it is apparent in the drive to lead and ingenuity exhibited by Ralph and Piggy that get the boys off to a good start to being rescued, and it is very, very apparent in Simon, the "soul of man", in his protection of those who would otherwise be more helpless than he in their present environment. It is the navy officer coming ashore, braving a blaze to investigate and potentially search for and rescue survivors from this flaming island. None of that is the monster to be feared. The petty tribalism, murder of the less able, and savagery that is partaken by Jack's boys, along with the use of man's ingenuity, intelligence, and leadership to construct massive ships of steel, not useful as a vessels, but for their capability to turn all that has been built up by man into burning rubble and to reduce their fellow man into harrowing, deceased, monsters in the trees... all of that is the monster within, all of that is not the true soul of man, all of that is toxic masculinity.
I couldn't understand any of that waffle, you managed to spend 4 paragraphs saying nothing meaningful at all. it's funny you should bring up that book though - in 1965, six schoolboys were stranded in a similar situation, and actually co-operated very well! They all survived, thrived even. You're using a fictional example to "prove" toxic masculinity, when the reality is the total opposite. The term toxic masculinity came from the mythopoetic men's movement in the late 90s, and really has been hijacked in popular nomenclature. Sure, people can give nuanced definitions, but in popular usage across social media it's used to bash men. Ascribing negative behaviours displayed by both genders to being a trait of masculinity. It's unreal
I do think the term “toxic masculinity” has been spread to broad. What it’s meant to be and what it’s presented as, are different. But I do agree with what’s said in this video
7:52 omg omg omg I was thinking: why did Rogan completely ignore the fact women have sex drives? And desire physical touch? Why did he ignore the fact that I literally love seeking too? And that society doesn't culturally permit women to even make the first move? With labels like "slut"? Like I literally love seeking and desiring and loving men physically in a good way, but him completely ignoring that made me bask in self-condemnation for my desires, like they're alien or unacceptable or should be destroyed. Most pornography is only directed to and made for men. There really is barely any pornography representing the female perspective... Some girls like things about men that they're just too afraid to say they love, like their butts, eyes, hair (of any length) and even chests... And when pornography focuses on other parts of men's bodies with women as their partner (butt etc), it almost always does it in a degrading way, with the woman still not disclosing her desires in an honorable, loving, intimate, but in a very degrading way not representative of her own feelings (because she's just asked to act on camera for money) which still shows you porn is still only made for men and directed only at men. But porn never represents women at all and Rogan completely ignored we actually have desires... We're only too afraid to truly, fully express them for the same reason men are too afraid to express they have emotions and tears to share with women.
9:09 so showing desire makes them uncomfortable bc they historically could not easily stop it, then doesn't that mean they're uncomfortable w/ all desire? contradicting your prev pnt abt how manner matters
Joe's podcast with Macaulay Culkin was super cringe. Joe clearly was annoyed with Mac and it was weird bc Mac was just being super chill and Joe seemed pissed off the entire time
Lol you said you welcome the conversation and different opinions then condescendingly say the people who have those opinions are simply a result of ignorance. Lol, how welcoming and typical 🙄.
That would only set you off if you think ignorant means stupid. Ignorant means you don’t know or understand something. You and I are both ignorant about a lot of things. For example, I don’t know shit about cars. Therefore, I’m ignorant about how cars work.
@@yellowgreymorals and I agree with everything you just said about the definition of ignorance.. BUT disagreeing with someone doesn’t mean they are ignorant. They may just not agree, and to label them as ignorant would absolutely stifle any productive conversation.
@@alisontejeda3270 Disagreeing with someone doesn’t mean you’re ignorant in itself. But if I disagree with you, it’s because I think you’re wrong and think there’s a point you’re missing about the subject, therefore you would be ignorant in my perspective. I think this manner of tone policing is just unhelpful and a distraction from the broader subject. It’s easier to make a big deal out of that than to actually engaging with the point they’re making.
@@yellowgreymorals the subject of the video was cringingly enough “ toxic masculinity “ and I’m aware that CAN be a thing, I just hated the typical white knight bs response, that this video highlighted.
If memory serves, i believe (B)Rogan once also got into an argument with a guest around nine years ago about what is worse to joke about, murder or sexual assault. He then proceeded to defend sexual assault jokes, saying that they're not as bad as making jokes about murder. Sooooooooooo........
5:55 totally wrong... what you are mentioning are traits of masculinity... when they are exercised to harm someone then only they are called as toxic... having bad thoughts and emotions or good thoughts and emotions does not make one bad or good until they are exercised
true enough, but a refusal to self-examine when those thoughts rear their head, and a societal conditioning to excuse these thoughts in oneself, are part of the cause why thoughts all too often turn into action.
@@MisterTingles whatever you are saying is post these traits... these traits themselves are not toxic.. so whatever you are saying is not in line wrt what i am saying... what I'm saying is that having these traits doesn't make anyone toxic... also these traits are evolutionary gifts... dominance as a positive trait or a negative trait depends upon its use...
Pretty sure it's the decent person's way of sounding like a decent person, and the real coward is the guy who can't accept that maybe intelligence and kindness go hand-in-hand, but what do I know? I'm only someone who's happy with their life.
@@DeadmanWalking789 People who are happy with their lives do not cry over pronouns, understand context, and have basic critical thinking skills. None of this requires PC ideology. Also because you lack critical thinking, I never said being nice is not apart of that. The fact that you think I did or that PC is the only way to sound nice is your fault for not understanding basic context. Seems you have a creepy fetish for PC culture to make up for something lacking in your life. That is a you problem, not a me problem.
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexite If wanting to be a victim so one can gain attention is your circumstance, than you really have no business even being addressed.
8:13 what is the way to show desire for women that they are comfortable w/? it seems to me they're uncomfortable w/ the natural amt of M->F desire no matter how it's manifested, prob as a direct result of human breeding asymmetry (high cost of pregnancy makes females selective)
Who the fuck "shows desire for a woman", sounds really weird. Women are attracted to manly men, even if they talk otherwise be it due to being woke, femininist or whatever. It's painful to watch men trying to be those sensitive, femininist, understanding types in the hope to get some action, which won't happen.
Toxic masculinity is subjective. It’s not something you know about it’s something you have an opinion about. Also the term itself is ridiculous, nobody uses it anymore and it’s outdated.
8:55 wait wait wait, so men should ask WOMEN about what its like to be a man? Aren't women the first to tell men that they have no idea what its like to be a woman, why does that not apply the other way around?
Hey can you pull up the CDC charts of how much Men deal with prison rape on a daily basis around the world? Or the fact that Men experience more violent assaults from other Men than Women do? Really weird how you left those two statistics out
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexite how does that one factor stop male rape in prisons around the world, as in outside of our own country Please come back to reality this is a really bad look for you
@@Cloudaddy220 so maybe that is a case of toxic masculinity and it needs to be fixed? Maybe this goes against your arguments? Maybe you are incompetent?
@@Cloudaddy220 maybe you should answer the damn questions instead of being incompetent. Do you know whatever rhetorical question is or are you incompetent? Here is a hint that was a rhetorical question also because I already know you are incompetent. And you're still not going to be able to understand this explanation.
I don’t disagree with your message. I’ve known plenty of men who think I’m “beta” and try to push me around. However, something about you comes across like virtual signaling and seems insincere. I don’t know what it is.
I like how at 10:15 he criticizes Rogan for using the stupid meaningless argument men made more shit therefore women should be thankful. Then he indulges in that same stupid argument that “nuh unh, women made shit too”. Like pitting the number innovations of the sexes against each other means anything. Don’t indulge in that argument. It’s dumb. Because if you do you’ll realize that going back throughout history all the way to the ancient Greeks like Aristotle you’ll find the main reason men created more things or conquered more land or thought more freely is because they were allowed too. Use that take. If you buy in to Rogans argument and try to brute force measure the number of innovations between the sexes you will lose a meaningless argument. It’s same thing with white vs black innovations
@lokotours here, well I can see that you have a point and a conversation is needed. I hope that you´re able to dismantle what you think is toxic masculinity. You should pick on Ellen´s Toxic femininity next just to even things out.ua-cam.com/video/92BTulCJoio/v-deo.html
While I can appreciate the attempt to critically examine Joe’s work (which has evolved over time) it segues into societal structures. Based on that, this is not a balanced piece as women today in the West are the freest most privileged and autonomous of any human generation ever. Things have objectively only gotten better in society on a whole actually for every one but men, with suicide and homelessness skyrocketing to name just two examples that predominantly affect men. I’m all for empathy and not being needlessly cruel but once you render yourself harmless you also run the risk of being useless. Especially today. In the end we all still have work to do in our society, but mostly due to people raised in broken families and fatherlessness and other deep cycles of trauma. Not as simple as just “men bad”. The west has a blind spot in believing that their European history of gender relations is the same history across the globe. There were non western civilizations that were Matriarchies. Would we say that those men were oppressed? The telling of our history has been so warped to only see the dark parts and never the bigger more cooperative story that would had to have taken place for us to just survive the harshness of the elements as a species. We had no time for gender bickering back then. Only in advanced, wealthy and safe societies can we afford to start demonizing what was done by past generations for mutual survival and then judge it with a pompous modern lens. It’s an asymmetrical analyses. The fact is, the men and women of today would likely not survive the world of no technology just a few hundred years ago. No birth control, no communication networks, no nothing. Just our hands the land and each other. And of course surrounded by lethal enemies.
This video maker is so full of himself giving a one-sided narrative of his to everything. I don't agree with Joe Rogan on everything, but this guy skews facts and information even more, ignoring situations that happen all the time unfairly against certain kinds of men, and unfairly in favor of certain kinds of women, that don't support his narrative. Yeah, men as a whole are worse, but it's not because they love to see a woman in a bikini, for example.
He says systemic racism gives power to white people-what about black people that are racist or asians that are racist...Every race has some racist people although i believe it is only a very small group..
I love watching JR. I don't agree with all of his points. Toxic masculinity is a make up word that feminist use to criticize men that do not agree with you.
Watch this video all the way through. A hard thing to do. I definitely disagree with you. It's low to take clips 10+ years ago to fit your agenda. I love watching JR. I don't agree with all of his points. Toxic masculinity is a make up word that feminist use to criticize men that do not agree with you.
9:50 No he’s not, he’s saying if you stretch out the definition of “toxic masculinity” as broad as they are then you’re going to put Men who have done great things for Women under that light simply because of how Women are defining them now a days
Where? What women are defining them that way? No one is. Oh my gosh you lot come up with the most ridiculous ideas with absolutely no evidence to back them up
@@Cloudaddy220 a timestamp is not an argument. There was no woman talking at that timestamp it was Joe Rogan not a woman. So again what women are defining them that way? Joe Rogan is making crap up but no one is saying and he is trying to take away and distract from the conversation.
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexite first why do we need a woman to talk about it? Second, you’re too angry again to see the point of what he’s saying What he’s saying here that if you just label every negative thing a man does as “toxic masculinity” then you’re going to be demonizing men who have done real good for the world, that’s it We certainly don’t need a woman to explain that very simple point, there aren’t any secrets women are born with that men aren’t like you seem to they are
@@Cloudaddy220 if you are making a claim that women are saying something then we need evidence that women are actually saying something. Are you really that incompetent that you don't understand that? No I am not angry, you are just incompetent. Regardless, he was making a what-about-ism, that is not a valid argument. Literally no one is saying everything men do is masculinity. Building is not masculinity, science is not masculinity. Literally no one is making that argument. Toxic masculinity is men trying to control people. Oh my gosh you are incompetent. I didn't say we needed women to explain that! I said you need to actually show that women are actually defining things that way, and they are not.
That’s a racist joke to you? “We walked into Planet of the Apes,” gets an “well that was fucking awful” from you??? So Black people can call White people, Nazis, White Supremacists, Bigots, words that are tandem to hate groups who have caused death and division throughout history, they can also suggest that we are all complacent in providing a safe haven for a systematically racist society But Joe makes a joke about getting dropped off in a bad neighborhood and your eyes nearly pop out of your head Everyone under the sun knows that if a Black guy was talking about how we was dropped off in the middle of the South and made some kind of incest joke to describe where he was dropped off that would never be condemned, your priorities of what falls under “fucking awful” needs some serious updates
I'm shocked by people who don't understand Toxic Masculinity. In this instance, 'Toxic' is a descriptive. Much like how people want you to make a difference between ISIS and the rest of Islam; Toxic Masculinity isn't describing all masculinity. Example: Harry Styles. Not the reaction, the lack of reaction. I thought there would be more Men's Rights Activists, and MGTOW members discussing the problems of a woman telling men what to wear. Nope. As of posting this, I still haven't seen anybody from those groups talk about it. I did find a Sandman video telling me that my friends aren't real. Just adding "Men and Women can't be friends" under Toxic Masculinity.
exactly. it's just a descriptor, aiming to address a condition that is the source of an array of problems.
@@RealFeelsProject So they are we gonna discuss toxic femininity or does that not exist?
Why on Earth are you glorifying Harry styles who is a zionist and a racist?
The fact that you just compared toxic masculinity to isis and islam is insane to me
This is a complete cop out & doesn't address the rightful criticism that lunatics who push the pathology behind "toxic masculinity" theory deserve. You always respond by saying "it doesn't mean all masculinity is toxic", but when you are asked what masculine traits are "not" toxic, NONE of you can answer it. Because ALL masculine traits are considered toxic.
In fact, the American Psychology Association *explicitly* stated in their guidelines how to treat men & boys that masculinity - ON THE WHOLE - was harmful, and that it lead to death & crime. It didn't make the distinction of "toxic" masculinity. It didn't say "part of masculinity". It said, masculinity "on the whole"... said to be marked by traits like competitiveness, stoicism, aggression, etc.
You cannot name ONE "positive" masculine trait that gender ideologues wouldn't consider toxic.
Competitiveness? Toxic. Stoicism? Toxic. Aggression? Toxic. Dominance? Toxic. Providing? Toxic. Selflessness? Toxic. Providing? Toxic. Power? Toxic. Strength? Toxic. Sexuality? Toxic.
These are the biological pilars of masculinity. They are not "social constructs". And they are widely considered to be toxic by feminists. ALL of them. What "positive" masculinity remains? This isn't something any of you cowards have ever addressed. Because you can't.
I'm sad to see so many negative comments. I thought this was a great video. Joe Rogan has done a ton of good spreading the idea of free thinking. I've enjoyed dozens and dozens of his videos. But, I agree that Joe doesn't give a fair chance to the idea of toxic masculinity being real.
There is conditioning, in society, making men think they can't express their feelings, without being ridiculed. And it's largely kept in place by other men. It's not in your nature as a man to bottle your feelings, your taught to do it. It is the reason that male depression statistics are so high.
Exactly
it may not be emotionally healthy for men to supress their emotions but it prevents you from losing other people's respect, specially women. Women don't feel attracted to emotional, weak men. Women usually feel more attraction for fake "toxic" and even actually toxic males. I know your ideas may sound great on paper and I agree that's the way things should utopically be in an ideal world but it fails in practice, it's against human social nature.
Women lose attraction for such men and other men lose respect for them.
Women can express all of their emotions, cry and do all the drama they want and everybody understands "alright, she's a woman" but that doesn't happen the other way around.
Men can only vent to some of their closest friends and relatives, not even GFs and wives.
This behavior is perceived as beta. Yeah, I know you will say the red pill is toxic but I actually tried both ways on my own and only the red pill philosophy gave me results in my overall social and romantic life.
I appreciate the great work you put into these videos and I can tell you're honest and really have good intentions, that's how I used to be until I felt the need to change and never looked back.
I know I won't change your mind and you won't change mine, I just respectfully disagree.
@@rockboy360 a lot of women have also been conditioned by this toxic mindset too, like a lot of mothers and usually the older generation. But that is a part of the problem with toxic masculinity. Of course everyone's preference is different in the traits they want in a person, no matter what there is always going to be people who have a problem with how you act. So its important to put yourself first in that matter where you are being vulnerable for your own benefit and mental health which will make you feel more comfortable with yourself and intern attract the right people. Who cares if some men and women dont respect you, thats there issue. oops this is long
What era do you think this is? You Fake Freaks always speak as if it’s still the 50’s, seriously who are these groups of people who condemn a man for expressing emotion?
@@jadesola9324 ugh, I had my mom tell me more than once to "not deny my husband sex"
Toxic masculinity is a catch all term that makes all men guilty for the misdeeds of the few. It explores societal problems stopping at whatever level that shows men can be blamed. It’s a not so subtle form of male oppression, making men wrong simply for being men.
I agree with the general thesis that Rogan has a tired schtick of being the “dumb male” which he uses as a defense against changing any of his beliefs. BUT, if Rogan were in the room to actually talk to, would he fundamentally disagree with any of the specific points you made here?
The traits you list of cultural expectations for male success, ie: aggression, toughness, daring, and dominance (or in your words, “toxic masculinity”) are also positive traits for leading a fulfilling life, regardless of sex or gender. Developing inner toughness, daring, aggression that is not directed at others but towards personal goals, and a feeling of dominance over personal challenges (and not an insecure need to assert oneself on others) are traits that all people can benefit from.
I get that your point isn’t against any of these traits in themselves, but the societal expectation and habit of men to act aggressively that is toxic. But the implication of what you’re advocating for becomes gray in effect. When would it be appropriate to call out Rogan for being “aggressive?” What are the characteristics of toxic male aggression as opposed to contextually appropriate aggression?
My point is that if you’re going to make a case against Rogan for his backwards attitudes, which I’m all for, you need to make a specific, substantial point. Otherwise he’s just gonna throw claims of his chauvinism back at you as “white knighting” or a “male guilt complex.”
There's also people who use very flimsy definitions of "toxic masculinity" just check out Buzzfeed or Vox for examples. People should be more serious and precise when defining these terms. Sloppy definitions for pathological behaviour can cause people to push back.
Rogan’s podcast is a place where men can talk freely about things.... so it must be stopped!
eh.....lmao@@sloebone7399
“But the bad things have been trending upward with men on the whole for a very long time.” I need some clarification on that statement. What bad things are trending upwards? Was it better in the 1980s? 1940s? 1900s? That seems ... weird.
I think when he said “trending upwards” he was saying that men’s attitudes and actions are getting better with time (which, to some degree, is true). If not, then I think that was a poorly explained statement. He could be citing the increasing number of men gravitating towards outwardly anti-women and/or anti-feminist internet communities, such as incels, MGTOW, and Red Pill communities. Femicide is also on the rise too, I believe.
@Michael Sprague Very uncharitable take.
Wonderful video, thorough message and well looked into! You showed those receipts!!
Don’t personally agree with everything, but just have to say thank you for the reasonable approach. This was a really good video, keep it up.
I really appreciate that. Thanks!
True
The last 2 minutes are really bringint it all together. Thank you!
We need masculinity back. Men need to be men again ‼️‼️☝️
Without being jerks. Having overt sexual advances does not make one a men.
@@lisah8438 nice guys finish last. Don’t @ me again with that bs
@@okeythegoat2332 more so the male feminist guys who are in this comment section then nice guys. They finish dead last
@Okeythegoat 23 You’re exactly right.
@@sen8596 faxx
My thing is, I understand men have "needs" and it's natural, but my thing is, it's not my job to take care of your "needs" if I'm not feeling it right now. And then guilting me about your "needs" makes me want to run away from you. Why can't you take care of your own "needs"? I found a vibrator that works for me and I feel good that I can take care of myself. I think part of the issue is the stigma and shame around masturbation. Bottom line, don't guilt me. Period.
Feel like you might have a point if either Joe Rogan or Jimmy Dore insinuated in any way that that was women's problem to solve or tried to "guilt" women over it. Sounded like they just said "hey, hard to concentrate when you're horny right?"
I used to date a genuine narcissist (not just making it up, certified npd) who loved Joe Rogan and he’d constantly try and aggressively gaslight me out of this exact point even though I knew I HAD to be right. This video was so cathartic for me, wish I found it sooner! Thank you ❤️
Great ending...Joe Ro has a massive blindside
I know this is 4 months old video but the problem with the term "Toxic Masculinity" is that it's used often equivocally in both psychological and ideological terms. When people make videos saying we don't understand the "REAL" meaning of the term it's often due to the fact that's it's application is purposely or frivolously applied in a incoherent way.
Feminism for example uses it in a finger waving introspective tone towards men, where in contrast they themselves seem to take an extrospective position to women's problems void of any sense of accountability of their own part of the result their currently try to change. Coupled with the sociological doctrine that the west is best categorised as a oppressive patriarchy and as a consequence whatever actions men might take that are forthright and ambitious in participating in that system is seen by their very nature as destructive.
I find it very difficult for men to be motivated if this is the fundamental view of society and male participation in it, and why men rebel against the term "toxic Masculinity".
8:51 Omg... Women can't be the sexual subjects (that's "slut" because she explained nuanced personalized desires for a man's certain bodily areas). They can only be the sexual objects (which entails huge physical harm, both sexual and biological and the one-sided enjoyment of sex where the woman 90% of the time faked an orgasm and only had real orgasms when alone). Why shouldn't the man and the woman be the sexual subjects? Why can't we just do away with that archaic dynamic of one-sided enjoyment of sex?
That's what it boils down to, a gross imbalance of what people, both men and women, are taught, the tools they are given to handle their "inborn traits" and "natural urges". How much time is spent on sexual education, not just in the US, but anywhere really... and it's usually just the mechanical stuff, this goes in there, bob's your uncle. And how much time is spent on conditioning kids to be aggressive and superior and tough in the context of sports? How much time of peoples' lives are defined by whether or not they get picked last, how much of a wuss they are when they can't score a goal, or throw up cuz they can't run that fast? And all those supposed accomplishments that Rogan lists off, that women should apparently be thanking toxic masculinity for? Those rocket engineers probably weren't star quarterbacks...
Son, can you even put up a shelf? Do you even know what wrench you need to change that tire? Did you even get layed on the weekend, bro?
...
Yeah, actually. And you'll no doubt be surprised to learn that I did it without being an asshole. Now get the fuck outa here, and stop crying that we finally figured out a term to call you out for your shitty way of going through life.
I would greatly argue that none enough time is spent on sex ed in the US. My husband thought my ovaries were behind my boobs because of a lack of education.
Well said. The part about women thanking TM for bridge building, etc. - uh, that’s not toxic. That’s good planning, and in some cases, physical/mental strength or endurance. Some of those older clips of Joe were definitely cringeworthy.
Thank you 😊❤️
Nice vid, Brad. You've just gained a subscriber. :-)
This is a great video and perfectly expresses why I don't like Joe Rogan
Does anyone know what the name of the man at 3:16 is? The topic they were discussing sounded fairly interesting and I would like to listen into it. Thank you!
killer mike
@@Andrewbait oh my God, found the video, thank you so much!!! Sending hugs!
You pretty much lost me as soon as you began your argument by basically insinuating that if someone agrees with Joe Rogan or disagrees with you it's simply because they have been "conditioned" to think that. Not because they might have opinions of their own that may or may not align with you or Joe.
Masculinity is an ideal for men to continually strive towards, by calling it toxic you are invalidating their pursuit to better themselves.
You misunderstand, masculinity is a good thing.
"Toxic masculinity" is bad. 2 different things. Toxic masculinity might as well be called as "macho bullshit". Toxic masculinity is the behavior where we stifle our emotions, over sexualize women, and encourage violence.
There are very good aspects of masculinity, such as stoicism, providing for others, protecting others, camaraderie, and much more. These things we protect, the bad parts we destroy.
It's easy to confuse the two.
TL:DR: toxic masculinity and masculinity are different things. Toxic masculinity bad traits, masculinity goo traits
@@nanobot1994 the thing is, stifling emotions, over sexualising the opposite gender and encouraging violence are not AT ALL a thing perpetuated only by men. These behaviours are nothing to do with masculinity, they are simply done by bad people.
I don't like that you're partly defining masculinity as providing for others, btw. Because there are women who embody those behaviours too, except we don't call it positive masculinity when women do it, do we? Providing for others was part of the old gender norms, which you claim to want to do away with, at least partly.
If toxic masculinity is defined as men feeling expected to conform to bad gender norms, why is the equal opposite called internalised misogyny and not toxic femininity. Gender norms are largely enforced by women too - anecdotal of course (like most of your arguments, I'd add), but I've heard the phrase "man up" overwhelmingly from women, especially when they're shaming men into doing things for them.
Friggin' love Rogan.
On point as usual !!
10:21 yup, you named the known instances... all 4 of them
JR: 'most', not 'all'
This video seems to have worked out well for you
Every time he says something worth listening, he negates it with ten things that are stupid, ignorant, racist etc.
I think this is a good stepping point into the issue of gender relations. However, I also think that you could have developed your arguments more and provided evidence to the generalizations that you made in this video. The takeaway I get from this video is that all men are toxic; It does not matter what a male does, their existence is proof enough that they are toxic. Would you consider yourself toxic Brad, or by quoting females and taking a righteous position that you are somehow not? Where does this toxicity come from and is it something that can be reduced/removed?
You cite statistics in favour of your argument, yet you fail to mention the rates of male suicide and assault directed towards men. You posit that toxic masculinity has been trending on the upward, yet you do not provide evidence to back this claim.
Yes, Joe Rogan might have said and done some questionable things that he needs to resolve, but overall as a positive male role model to boys and men (there is a lacking of them) he is the best that I have come across.
I have been conditioned in the same country, with the same media. So, yes, I have participated in plenty of toxic behaviors. And it is only when we all recognize that we've taken part in this mindset that we can make positive change toward cooperation with women and each other. There are SO MANY better role models than Rogan. The Rock. Will Smith. Kumail Nanjiani. The list goes on. They are vocal about their support for a new type of masculinity. Rates of male suicide are high, especially in men over 40 because of loneliness and disconnection from others and themselves. Be vulnerable to be strong. That's what my video is about. Thank you for watching it and thanks for your feedback!
@@RealFeelsProject *Rates of male suicide are high, especially in men over 40 because of loneliness and disconnection from others and themselves*
Rates of male suicide are on the rise because nobody cares about men i.e. men are perceived as disposable. Don't victim blame men for their discrimination!
@@RealFeelsProject
That's like saying all Muslims are Islamists. I'll watch the rest of this video when my BS tolerance is higher. I need to make sure I steelman this one.
That is sad if Rogan is somebody you look up to lmao
@@RealFeelsProject So "positive" male role models are a guy who's been juicing grams of gear every day for years & has a huge ego, a guy who publicly assaults other ppl for the entire world to see & is widely known in the industry to be a huge narcissist & then another guy who started juicing way too much late into his life & whose political opinions doesn't go much further than "men = toxic" for doing the EXACT thing he's doing right now (working out & doing gear).
Suffice it to say, you're a horrible person. You equate men to toxicity for no other reason than your garbage feminist ideology compells you to.
If "masculinity" was to blame for suicide, then please explain why male suicide is RISING each year, despite the culture being more open towards male "vulnerability"? Furthermore, if it's men's fault, how come women are vastly more likely to be depressed, have anxiety, PTSD, phobias & attempt suicide? You do not present any facts in this video whatsever. It is actually far easier to argue that *femininity* is "toxic" if you're going by this type of logic, considering "feminine" people are actually the ones far more predisposed towards mental illness.
Get over yourself.
Until you call out toxic femininity which I know you won't. You have no take
Tell us how that is a mayor problem and how it affects you and/or other people. Maybe is a good subject to bring up if it is.
The thing is... toxic masculinity has been a talking point for a long time. It's not exactly a new concept.
Let's go back to 1954 to where William Golding wrote the book, The Lord of the Flies. The plotline of the book follows a group of school boys who are crashed on an island after an airplane they were in wartime evacuation. While the group overall starts with a positive leadership, the boys leading each other after one blows into a conch as a signal to the others and trying their best to survive on the island. Ralph, Piggy, and Simon rise as leaders, and try to tend to surviving a desert island (with the ingenuity of Ralph and Piggy) and protecting the underclassmen of the group (which is mainly strove for by Simon). Things seem to be going well, however, soon, Jack, who leads a group of choir boys, and who was the leader of the group's hunters of the indigenous pig population on the island, begins to lead some boys astray.
The first bits of conflict, both psycho-emotional and physical, begin when the signal fire, under Jack's care, is allowed to die. In a violent clash, Piggy's glasses, which was used to start the fire, are broken. Then, later on, when the boys find the body of a deceased pilot who slowly descended by parachute to the island and landed in the trees, mistaken for a monster, tensions rise all the more, and Jack attempts a failed coup, instead resorting to leading his followers away from Ralph, Piggy, and Simon's group. There, in the forest, they erect an offering of a severed pig's head to the monster, which quickly becomes crawling with flies. Simon, while patrolling, protecting, encounters this severed pig's head and faints; while unconscious, he imagines a dialogue between himself and "The Lord of the Flies", this boar-head personified. It mocks him about the pretense of the monster being something to be slain; it's something inside of them, and that Simon is in danger because he represents the soul of man and the others will try to kill him.
This omen ends up coming true, and Jack's boys attack those that still follow Ralph, Piggy, and Simon. In a violent clash, Piggy ends up getting murdered by the opposing side, and the conch that brought them all together, shattered. The violence escalates, with the boys who followed Jack behaving manically and lighting the island ablaze while chasing after Simon to murder him. However, Simon eventually comes face-to-face with a British Navy Officer who has come ashore from a warship to investigate the blaze. The boys all revert, crying, and the man cannot help but to look away from the blaze and these boys rendered savage... and to the warship he came from.
Anyway, while The Lord of the Flies potentially predates the term "toxic masculinity", I have not researched its etymology, it is a book that is inseparably linked to the concept of toxic masculinity: The Lord of the Flies, its severed head bloated and rotted and infested with maggots in the pacific sun, and the internal monster that it speaks of is Toxic Masculinity. Things can be masculine without being toxic: it is apparent in the drive to lead and ingenuity exhibited by Ralph and Piggy that get the boys off to a good start to being rescued, and it is very, very apparent in Simon, the "soul of man", in his protection of those who would otherwise be more helpless than he in their present environment. It is the navy officer coming ashore, braving a blaze to investigate and potentially search for and rescue survivors from this flaming island. None of that is the monster to be feared. The petty tribalism, murder of the less able, and savagery that is partaken by Jack's boys, along with the use of man's ingenuity, intelligence, and leadership to construct massive ships of steel, not useful as a vessels, but for their capability to turn all that has been built up by man into burning rubble and to reduce their fellow man into harrowing, deceased, monsters in the trees... all of that is the monster within, all of that is not the true soul of man, all of that is toxic masculinity.
I couldn't understand any of that waffle, you managed to spend 4 paragraphs saying nothing meaningful at all. it's funny you should bring up that book though - in 1965, six schoolboys were stranded in a similar situation, and actually co-operated very well! They all survived, thrived even. You're using a fictional example to "prove" toxic masculinity, when the reality is the total opposite.
The term toxic masculinity came from the mythopoetic men's movement in the late 90s, and really has been hijacked in popular nomenclature. Sure, people can give nuanced definitions, but in popular usage across social media it's used to bash men. Ascribing negative behaviours displayed by both genders to being a trait of masculinity. It's unreal
I do think the term “toxic masculinity” has been spread to broad. What it’s meant to be and what it’s presented as, are different. But I do agree with what’s said in this video
7:52 omg omg omg I was thinking: why did Rogan completely ignore the fact women have sex drives? And desire physical touch? Why did he ignore the fact that I literally love seeking too? And that society doesn't culturally permit women to even make the first move? With labels like "slut"? Like I literally love seeking and desiring and loving men physically in a good way, but him completely ignoring that made me bask in self-condemnation for my desires, like they're alien or unacceptable or should be destroyed.
Most pornography is only directed to and made for men. There really is barely any pornography representing the female perspective... Some girls like things about men that they're just too afraid to say they love, like their butts, eyes, hair (of any length) and even chests... And when pornography focuses on other parts of men's bodies with women as their partner (butt etc), it almost always does it in a degrading way, with the woman still not disclosing her desires in an honorable, loving, intimate, but in a very degrading way not representative of her own feelings (because she's just asked to act on camera for money) which still shows you porn is still only made for men and directed only at men.
But porn never represents women at all and Rogan completely ignored we actually have desires...
We're only too afraid to truly, fully express them for the same reason men are too afraid to express they have emotions and tears to share with women.
9:09 so showing desire makes them uncomfortable bc they historically could not easily stop it, then doesn't that mean they're uncomfortable w/ all desire? contradicting your prev pnt abt how manner matters
“Gross dudes” I’m fucking tired of hearing about how I’m a gross dude. Fuck the people that categorize other people that way.
100%
My God.... Could you imagine if all dudes were like this.
I think I'm going to tear up hearing this man. I don't hear good stuff like this often. Amazing work!
Joe is close friends with Alex Jones...
And?
@@Cloudaddy220 "and" what?
@@Diinytro exactly
@@Cloudaddy220 "I don't know, third base"?
@@Cloudaddy220 and Alex jones is an idiot
Joe's podcast with Macaulay Culkin was super cringe. Joe clearly was annoyed with Mac and it was weird bc Mac was just being super chill and Joe seemed pissed off the entire time
Lol you said you welcome the conversation and different opinions then condescendingly say the people who have those opinions are simply a result of ignorance. Lol, how welcoming and typical 🙄.
That would only set you off if you think ignorant means stupid. Ignorant means you don’t know or understand something. You and I are both ignorant about a lot of things. For example, I don’t know shit about cars. Therefore, I’m ignorant about how cars work.
@@yellowgreymorals and I agree with everything you just said about the definition of ignorance.. BUT disagreeing with someone doesn’t mean they are ignorant. They may just not agree, and to label them as ignorant would absolutely stifle any productive conversation.
@@alisontejeda3270 Disagreeing with someone doesn’t mean you’re ignorant in itself. But if I disagree with you, it’s because I think you’re wrong and think there’s a point you’re missing about the subject, therefore you would be ignorant in my perspective. I think this manner of tone policing is just unhelpful and a distraction from the broader subject. It’s easier to make a big deal out of that than to actually engaging with the point they’re making.
@@yellowgreymorals and you seriously don’t think that’s not a condescending stance that will inevitably stifle any productive conversation??
@@yellowgreymorals the subject of the video was cringingly enough “ toxic masculinity “ and I’m aware that CAN be a thing, I just hated the typical white knight bs response, that this video highlighted.
If memory serves, i believe (B)Rogan once also got into an argument with a guest around nine years ago about what is worse to joke about, murder or sexual assault. He then proceeded to defend sexual assault jokes, saying that they're not as bad as making jokes about murder.
Sooooooooooo........
5:55 totally wrong... what you are mentioning are traits of masculinity... when they are exercised to harm someone then only they are called as toxic... having bad thoughts and emotions or good thoughts and emotions does not make one bad or good until they are exercised
true enough, but a refusal to self-examine when those thoughts rear their head, and a societal conditioning to excuse these thoughts in oneself, are part of the cause why thoughts all too often turn into action.
@@MisterTingles whatever you are saying is post these traits... these traits themselves are not toxic.. so whatever you are saying is not in line wrt what i am saying... what I'm saying is that having these traits doesn't make anyone toxic... also these traits are evolutionary gifts... dominance as a positive trait or a negative trait depends upon its use...
@@N3L6V9 wanting to control other people is toxic and wrong
Political Correctness is a cowards way to sound like a intellectual. Case in point.
Pretty sure it's the decent person's way of sounding like a decent person, and the real coward is the guy who can't accept that maybe intelligence and kindness go hand-in-hand, but what do I know? I'm only someone who's happy with their life.
@@DeadmanWalking789 People who are happy with their lives do not cry over pronouns, understand context, and have basic critical thinking skills. None of this requires PC ideology. Also because you lack critical thinking, I never said being nice is not apart of that. The fact that you think I did or that PC is the only way to sound nice is your fault for not understanding basic context. Seems you have a creepy fetish for PC culture to make up for something lacking in your life. That is a you problem, not a me problem.
@@patrickkenna6387 people that have different circumstances want to be addressed appropriately.
@@DeadmanWalking789 Virtue signaling to pander to a creepy base that has a fetish to be a victim is not being a decent person.
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexite If wanting to be a victim so one can gain attention is your circumstance, than you really have no business even being addressed.
8:13 what is the way to show desire for women that they are comfortable w/? it seems to me they're uncomfortable w/ the natural amt of M->F desire no matter how it's manifested, prob as a direct result of human breeding asymmetry (high cost of pregnancy makes females selective)
Who the fuck "shows desire for a woman", sounds really weird. Women are attracted to manly men, even if they talk otherwise be it due to being woke, femininist or whatever. It's painful to watch men trying to be those sensitive, femininist, understanding types in the hope to get some action, which won't happen.
Toxic masculinity is subjective. It’s not something you know about it’s something you have an opinion about. Also the term itself is ridiculous, nobody uses it anymore and it’s outdated.
I like him!
Video starts at 4:20 Everything preceding it is just filler.
I appreciate another man making this ...because yeah he sounded ignorant af 👀
I love JRE and feel like this is gonna nake me uncomfortable...
Also 3:00 musk is a scam
I’d hate to work for a boss who is a c.
Thank you for this content. Kudos 👏🏼
8:55 wait wait wait, so men should ask WOMEN about what its like to be a man? Aren't women the first to tell men that they have no idea what its like to be a woman, why does that not apply the other way around?
Once again Rogan words are taken completely out of context there's nothing wrong with a man being traditionally masculine
you mentioned system racism and i was out.
Dude, you have too much estrogen in your system.
Hey can you pull up the CDC charts of how much Men deal with prison rape on a daily basis around the world? Or the fact that Men experience more violent assaults from other Men than Women do?
Really weird how you left those two statistics out
Maybe we need to improve our prison system??????
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexite how does that one factor stop male rape in prisons around the world, as in outside of our own country
Please come back to reality this is a really bad look for you
@@Cloudaddy220 so maybe that is a case of toxic masculinity and it needs to be fixed? Maybe this goes against your arguments? Maybe you are incompetent?
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexite maybe you should come up with answers instead of absolutely useless questions before you call others incompetent
@@Cloudaddy220 maybe you should answer the damn questions instead of being incompetent. Do you know whatever rhetorical question is or are you incompetent?
Here is a hint that was a rhetorical question also because I already know you are incompetent. And you're still not going to be able to understand this explanation.
Joe is liberal in core, and he def know what "toxic" m. means (probably this coment would be deleted)
What is wrong with the man show. Those women in bikinis are getting paid, right? They are doing a job? Who cares if they are being objectified?
This is the male feminist Joe warns about. Maybe if this message was from someone respectable it would go over better.
I don’t disagree with your message. I’ve known plenty of men who think I’m “beta” and try to push me around. However, something about you comes across like virtual signaling and seems insincere. I don’t know what it is.
I like how at 10:15 he criticizes Rogan for using the stupid meaningless argument men made more shit therefore women should be thankful. Then he indulges in that same stupid argument that “nuh unh, women made shit too”. Like pitting the number innovations of the sexes against each other means anything. Don’t indulge in that argument. It’s dumb. Because if you do you’ll realize that going back throughout history all the way to the ancient Greeks like Aristotle you’ll find the main reason men created more things or conquered more land or thought more freely is because they were allowed too. Use that take. If you buy in to Rogans argument and try to brute force measure the number of innovations between the sexes you will lose a meaningless argument. It’s same thing with white vs black innovations
This guy has good intentions but his arguments are shit and reeks of the male feminist that people make fun of
@lokotours here, well I can see that you have a point and a conversation is needed. I hope that you´re able to dismantle what you think is toxic masculinity. You should pick on Ellen´s Toxic femininity next just to even things out.ua-cam.com/video/92BTulCJoio/v-deo.html
Do you know what toxic masculinity is? Bc you barely covered it
Joe wrong like every bad song !!
While I can appreciate the attempt to critically examine Joe’s work (which has evolved over time) it segues into societal structures. Based on that, this is not a balanced piece as women today in the West are the freest most privileged and autonomous of any human generation ever. Things have objectively only gotten better in society on a whole actually for every one but men, with suicide and homelessness skyrocketing to name just two examples that predominantly affect men. I’m all for empathy and not being needlessly cruel but once you render yourself harmless you also run the risk of being useless. Especially today. In the end we all still have work to do in our society, but mostly due to people raised in broken families and fatherlessness and other deep cycles of trauma. Not as simple as just “men bad”. The west has a blind spot in believing that their European history of gender relations is the same history across the globe. There were non western civilizations that were Matriarchies. Would we say that those men were oppressed? The telling of our history has been so warped to only see the dark parts and never the bigger more cooperative story that would had to have taken place for us to just survive the harshness of the elements as a species. We had no time for gender bickering back then. Only in advanced, wealthy and safe societies can we afford to start demonizing what was done by past generations for mutual survival and then judge it with a pompous modern lens. It’s an asymmetrical analyses. The fact is, the men and women of today would likely not survive the world of no technology just a few hundred years ago. No birth control, no communication networks, no nothing. Just our hands the land and each other. And of course surrounded by lethal enemies.
This video maker is so full of himself giving a one-sided narrative of his to everything. I don't agree with Joe Rogan on everything, but this guy skews facts and information even more, ignoring situations that happen all the time unfairly against certain kinds of men, and unfairly in favor of certain kinds of women, that don't support his narrative. Yeah, men as a whole are worse, but it's not because they love to see a woman in a bikini, for example.
He says systemic racism gives power to white people-what about black people that are racist or asians that are racist...Every race has some racist people although i believe it is only a very small group..
Do you even know what racism is?
4:14 no it wasn't. did I miss the cue to be offended?
Joe Rogan *is* toxic masculinity
I love watching JR. I don't agree with all of his points. Toxic masculinity is a make up word that feminist use to criticize men that do not agree with you.
Watch this video all the way through. A hard thing to do. I definitely disagree with you. It's low to take clips 10+ years ago to fit your agenda. I love watching JR. I don't agree with all of his points. Toxic masculinity is a make up word that feminist use to criticize men that do not agree with you.
UA-cam algorithm is broken. How the hell did this rubbish pop up on my recommended videos?
I don't know what this big deal is. Toxic Masculinity is my second favorite part of feminist mythology.
What a cute video... gonna show my son .. this is what happens when you don’t play contact sports.
Whats toxic is cultural marxism and critical thinking theory haha
9:50
No he’s not, he’s saying if you stretch out the definition of “toxic masculinity” as broad as they are then you’re going to put Men who have done great things for Women under that light simply because of how Women are defining them now a days
Where? What women are defining them that way? No one is. Oh my gosh you lot come up with the most ridiculous ideas with absolutely no evidence to back them up
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexite there’s literally a time stamp in my comment
@@Cloudaddy220 a timestamp is not an argument. There was no woman talking at that timestamp it was Joe Rogan not a woman. So again what women are defining them that way? Joe Rogan is making crap up but no one is saying and he is trying to take away and distract from the conversation.
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexite first why do we need a woman to talk about it? Second, you’re too angry again to see the point of what he’s saying
What he’s saying here that if you just label every negative thing a man does as “toxic masculinity” then you’re going to be demonizing men who have done real good for the world, that’s it
We certainly don’t need a woman to explain that very simple point, there aren’t any secrets women are born with that men aren’t like you seem to they are
@@Cloudaddy220 if you are making a claim that women are saying something then we need evidence that women are actually saying something. Are you really that incompetent that you don't understand that?
No I am not angry, you are just incompetent. Regardless, he was making a what-about-ism, that is not a valid argument.
Literally no one is saying everything men do is masculinity. Building is not masculinity, science is not masculinity. Literally no one is making that argument. Toxic masculinity is men trying to control people.
Oh my gosh you are incompetent. I didn't say we needed women to explain that! I said you need to actually show that women are actually defining things that way, and they are not.
That’s a racist joke to you? “We walked into Planet of the Apes,” gets an “well that was fucking awful” from you???
So Black people can call White people, Nazis, White Supremacists, Bigots, words that are tandem to hate groups who have caused death and division throughout history, they can also suggest that we are all complacent in providing a safe haven for a systematically racist society
But Joe makes a joke about getting dropped off in a bad neighborhood and your eyes nearly pop out of your head
Everyone under the sun knows that if a Black guy was talking about how we was dropped off in the middle of the South and made some kind of incest joke to describe where he was dropped off that would never be condemned, your priorities of what falls under “fucking awful” needs some serious updates