Truth hurts. But people vote with their dollars. While everyone was making a stink about sports cars not being fast enough, everyone bought crossovers. Not me personally, but you know, most of the car buying market.
Most of it is just market forces. The faux minivans have taken over the car market. Some Zs and Silvias had turbos and sold extremely well, some didn't and have languished ... they've been left out because the money makers are crappy minivans with doors that open out.
Having driven 2 of the original ones (well one was a Toyota, but the same thing) and it needs more power, but no more than maybe 50hp and a similar increase in torque. It just had that horrible wheezy feeling, like it’s own engine couldn’t quite keep up with the rest of the experience. Did it need more than 300hp? Absolutely not, it would have overpowered the chassis and made power the only feature. Same with the old NB MX-5, a little supercharger wakes it up just enough to get it going, but more power makes it way too much
Theres no point in trying to explain, the average driver just will not understand. Just like when people ask Keiichi Tsuchiya if he will upgrade his AE86 to a newer sports car, he just says, "No."
I’ve owned 30+ cars. And when I drove a brz, I couldn’t stay ahead of a non racing Honda odyssey while I’m shifting at 5000rpm. That just sux. Idc how well it handles. There’s a lot more straight road/acceleration situations then there are “ twisty bits that you’re gonna kick ass” on
It's not actually that black and white. Maybe the car manufacturers should offer that car with those "missing" features. No one who is market for sports coupe decides to buy crossovers just because some car doesn't have active cruise or something.
Finally someone with a proper vision about the BRZ, it's not about perfomance figures, it's about the sheer driving experience which this car excells at, keeping it NA is a very smart move from Subaru and Toyota because it makes it a possible sports car to own, unlike the other sport cars which can be twice it's price or even more.
@@siddheshpillai3807 not really. I bought a 2018 GTI for $19k after taxes and it only had 20k miles on it. Still a modern car, leds, lsd, CarPlay, etc. depends on what you want your car to do. The new BRZ is more limited in practicality but i still want to test one out and see what they’re all about, might change my mind after a drive
@@lacrosse4higher It isn't a sports car though and the experience you get driving a light, manual, RWD car cannot be replicated in FWD. You have an infinite amount of choices for how to take a corner while in FWD hatches you really have no choice but to go off throttle in the corner or you'll lose all grip and understeer. You don't realize how much of a change it can be until you spend some time in each. And I own an example of each so I'm not talking out of turn.
@America Isnotademocracy Hhhmm, yes, limitless. That's why GM, which is the automotive company that most approaches this, doesn't offer a manual in the C8. Neither does BMyota in the Supra. Neither does Subaru in any model but the BRZ in Europe. If a company's product doesn't sell, why would they bother making it? It's futile. Nothing is free, even for the execs that pocket most of the revenue in almost any company.
@@lfox02 GM also got Tremec to whip them up a custom DCT that's just for the C8, the real saving cost would be the shared platform of the V8. Funny enough. The new BRZ motor is pretty much the Turbo 2.4L you can already find in Subie's new line up. Just without the Turbo and some other modifications.
I feel like thats not the case. They put turbos on eco boxes these days. WRX cost about the same and has a turbo, so does the mustang. Toyota on the other hand rarely uses turbos. And the one place they do use a turbo is their supra. Why would you want to buy a supra if you could get the brz for cheaper? I feel like thats the real reason
I've long been waiting for people to start looking at the torque integral (the area underneath the curve over full rev range) ... and then start piecing together that area at each shift point from ... say... 0-100, 0-150, 60-150, etc. That graph was the closest I've seen. Not even Engineer Ex touches Calc I material.
someone should point that out to CNN and Fox News, because all they care about is fudged "facts" and propaganda, they just cater to different party bases. If only politics could be divided, yet still remain civil and based upon a combination of science and real world experiences... Automotive, Computing, and Music Gear news channels one UA-cam are more honest than other news sources, and have more journalistic integrity, and it's sad. That said, I'm not complaining that this guy does it right! MORE PLEASE!
@@APsupportsTerrorism What, are you telling me that peak horsepower is not everything? I joke but video game reviewers are starting to show frame time graphs so maybe car reviews can catch up.
I daily drive a 1st GEN BRZ and it does not need a turbo. This car is for fun, not for speed in straight line. And it's not slow by any means. Gets good gas milage, easy on the maintenance. This handles great and puts a smile on your face. Don't let the car drive you, learn to drive and drive the car.
@@arcanevoid9199 2nd gen is much faster. I have both gens. 2nd gen in terms of acceleration is on par with the original Nissan 350z...and obviously handles 1 million times better than that.
Its called old school method of remembering. OR it was on the screen prompt or already written down for him to read off, just had to do so while not making it look obvious.
@UA-cam Sucks i have been registered with UA-cam for 8 yrs now and only 3 people have commented on my username and you are number 3. So either nobody is paying attention or nobody cares.
It's a breath of fresh air in a world where most ICE cars for the mass markets are so numb, heavy, laggy and over-complicated. I will get one when my 1st gen BRZ become too broken one day, and then pass it to my kids.
Same here pretty much, and my BRZ has ended up being a dirt-road monster instead because that 'weak torque' turns out to be almost EXACTLY perfect for off-asphalt driving. It's just enough you CAN spin the tires, but not so much you're fighting to get grip. The 2nd gen models I'm excited to see what happens with, there's a LOT of promise that instead of being a "great platform for tinkering" it'll just be an amazing car bone stock with zero complaints.
I'm with you! At 47 I'm old enough to remember when "affordable" sports or sporty coupes were about handling, tossabilty, and just enough power to have fun wringing it out during your commute, while (mostly) staying within legal speed limits. A 0-60 time anywhere between 7-9 seconds was fine because it was about smiles per mile, while looking cool, not having pin you into your seat acceleration. Like you Jason, I bemoan that these cars virtually no longer exist aside from the BRZ/86 and Miata. Hell as a Honda guy I miss the CR-X!
Random person on the internet: “If Subaru adds a turbo to the BRZ I will buy it.” Subaru: “Adds turbo” Random person on the internet: “It’s too expensive, I can’t afford this, and it lost the balance that it had, they should have kept it the way it was.” Subaru: “Oh for fucks sakes!”
@@BRZFA24 I think other problems why people didn't buys supra because is didn't have manuals and yes 4 cylinder model even expensive and disappointed with is price point. My opinion I take GT86 BRZ over 4 cylinders supra
@@mrjdmtunerboy.1463 I would take the BRZ over the Supra any day, does not matter if it comes with 205HP or 228HP as long as it comes with a 6 MT (which it will). :)
I always liked the BRZ/GT86, but after understanding it more, I appreciate it a whole lot more. We took those 90s everyday sports cars a bit for granted
Buy a used one...shits incredibly overpriced new and super lackluster. For 1/2 to 1/3rd the cost you can get a much better and faster used car, or bump up another 1-3k dollars over a new BRZ and get a new full power sports car like mustang, charger, camaro, and many more
@@Shadow0fd3ath24 I appreciate your advice, but I don't care. It's a Subaru. The cars are "overpriced" ($29k is actually NOT that expensive for a brand new sports car) because Subarus are over-engineered. This is a non-turbo Subaru. This thing will last far longer than any American Muscle could ever hope to. Especially with proper maintenance. I'm not gonna want a subie bro's sloppy vape-filled seconds when it comes to this. I'm also buying this in Manual since that is a dying breed. In short, I don't care that I can get an SN95 for $3k. I want this Subaru.
Hagerty, your channel is so huge and you probably won't read this comment because you get so many, but I just wanted to say THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO. This presenter is EXACTLY what I want to see from a car enthusiast analysis. This guy GETS it. My goodness, this video brings a tear to my eye. THANK YOU!!!
I replaced the exhaust system on my 2018 model 86 with a 2.5inch exhaust and high flow cat and as a result the torque dip is gone, better fuel economy and a nice sound to boot. I have no intention to boost the car as I am still happy with an NA engine (owned a few Celicas) and certainly don't regret not having a turbo or supercharger.
Yeah I got a UEL header and full 2.5" exhaust with a tune and the car drives much better torque dip is hardly noticeable. I think If you buy one of these cars and leave it stock your kind of missing the point of owning one.
That interior looks nice to me. Buttons for all functions related to the car, easy climate control, good gauges and carplay with a large enough screen. But I don't buy new cars, so it's not like my opinion really matters!
I agree. I feel that unless you're used to nicer new cars/are an auto journalist, most interiors are good enough for the average consumer. It's all about perspective.
The interior, at least for me, is not a top priority. I want the performance, driving dynamics, overall brilliance and fun factor to take over each and everytime I drive a car.
@@mathurinkerbouchard8931 i wish this was more focused but realistically our market is way too small compared to an average consumer market. they follow the money and you can’t blame.
And don't forget, they gave us this car in a world where every great name , everything we used to like is now a crossover or electric yukkk!! Great video, subscribed!
@@PigglyWigglyDeluxe better isn't always "better". My favorite city car to date is a gen 2 mazdaspeed 3. The torque steer was buckets of fun, but is objectively bad.
@@fabioribeiro5071 complete fantasy bs. No enthusiast would be cross shopping this car to end up with a crossover when there's options like the Civic Si, GTI, Mustang, Camaro, Elantra GT out there. If you end up with the SUV then u were never an enthuasiast
@@papa_pt can they afford a $30,000, yeah, maybe, but they can only afford ONE and with baby momma due with the little blessing in 3 months, they buy the suv and “with plans of buying this car in 4 years when its used and ill strap a turbo with my income tax refund”. That’s who we’re referring to. Or at least me
The difference between UA-camrs and automotive journalists makes itself super clear through the quality of any video that Jason and team create. Another amazing video! Thank you!
Having owned the first 86… that torque dip was a challenge. I loved the NA engine, but in daily driving it was very noticeable. A new header and e85 flexfuel kit (I.e. pretty cheap mods) fixed it and made the car SO MUCH better! So this new one still being NA but having decent torque = 🎉🎉🎉😊
Great video. As a Miata ND2 owner I am happy to see the BRZ get some of the love it deserves. Also, even happier that I won’t have to hear the awful noise that comes out of the original. I’d just add that, yes, you probably can spend almost 40k on a Miata, but really all the best stuff can be had for right at 30. Club package, LSD, soft top, heated seats, done.
Automotive Journalism at its finest!! So many great points made in every video bringing new perspectives and a fresh looks at things we usually take for granted!! Great job as always Jason and Hagerty crew!!!
You’ve made this channel my new favorite automotive UA-cam channel. I always learn something new. And oh how I miss those sports coupes from back in the day.
Really wanting more sports cars with the same mind set that Subaru and Toyota have with the BRZ twins. Low cost, great handling and reliable... We need more of this. Also, I want one.
Hagerty hit it out of the park bringing on Jason! This and his other series are FANTASTIC! There are some other automotive channels Ive enjoyed for years but the way he tells a story is unlike any of them.
@@JimBobDewayne, in our country it will have double price of gr86 I think. :D Also the chassis wasn't changed .. So, it will be the same Japan Mustang.
Considering Dodge was slapping a Turbo on a car (SRT 4) and selling it for 20K 20 years ago, please stop with the excuses for this company and this car.
@@Gotallofthem1 idk with force induction, you’re looking at $36,000+ with larger brakes, better suspension components, and weight. That’s where your aftermarket tunning comes in if you want. . Like Jason said, it’s meant to be an affordable sports car.
Best video on the BRZ that I have ever seen. He explains why the Turbo is not needed in the BRZ with facts. Plus there is more that straightline speed and power on a spec sheet. This car ( and the Toyota GR 86) have character, affordable, reliable cool sport cars .
I just love watching Jason’s reviews. It’s like what automotive journalism should be like. Unbiased and to the point. Thanks Jason. Now did he say BRZ STI? 😃
Great honest and hard criticism of consumers. People don't know what they want, I think this is why the sports car market has subsided in recent years.
I didn't like the redesign at first, but it is definitely growing on me and it is looking good, especially that rear end. I like how they removed the 3rd brake light from inside the cabin and installed it on to the spoiler... which means, all base GR86s and BRZs will have spoilers and it won't be an option.
I love my 2019 86GT. It's an auto (left knee can't handle clutches anymore) but I threw on a loud exhaust and tuned it to run off E85. I don't care to race, I just love zipping through S curves.
Even if he’s never driven it he gets it. I have a feeling I’m going to be rewatching this video a LOT until I eventually am able to buy this car in a couple of years
i just picked up a 2024 brz-ts. i actually love it. i was going to get a 2023 wrx, but the red-line was too low. even though the brz does not have turbo, you can really push it to red-line, and it handles corners much better than the wrx. only complaint is that it is a bit noisy on the highway. it is like an echo chamber in the car with the windows rolled up. but it is a blast to drive, and is pleasing on the eyes.
Videos like these doesn’t even make it to a million views in a year. Come on guys! This video is so informative and with relatively little views like that it wouldn’t encourage it’s makers to make more videos like this.
That gauge cluster is the cleanest, nicest looking one I’ve ever seen. Why can’t all of them be like that, instead of including frivolous graphics, confusing layouts, and choppy animations? This makes the rest look like clown shoes!
This is a very analytic review, specially the price point issues with the turbo and extra stuff that would increase the car price. Hey Jason, we need more videos like this. I liked the video!!
Finally, something a person with a normal amount of money can buy and enjoy. Miata is a little too snug. Hyundai should come out with a new Front engined rear-wheel drive coupe as well...Miss the genesis coupe.
Thanks for schooling those that needed it. This car is supposed to be fun. FUN. Excessive power doesn't necessarily equal that. One of the most fun cars I ever owned was a '91 Celica GTS. Power wasn't it's strong suit, but it was exhilarating.
4:50 I now show this clip to every 13y/o keyboard warrior that has never touched a real stick or pedal yet whines about the 200something hp in the BRZ or the 181hp in the Miata is too little.
i just saw this video 9 months late, i have liked this, shared my hypotheses and transfered the link to this to over a dozen different users. I am a Mazda 83 12a FB and 6 port RX8 owner. You are a juggernaut of our zooming, habitually innatentive generation. I idol you Jason Cammisa, but keep the discernment about your cars real so the congratulations doesn't get over your head.
My first car was an 86 fiero GT and man was that thing basically a go kart. Not a ton of power but in the corners and the handling was just mint. A really fun rear wheel drive and I miss that. My 2012 civic si is fun but I have been looking to an 86/brz as my next car as I miss that fun rear wheel drive sports car.
Don't forget the base model MX-5 Miata exists. Just before my 26th birthday I bought a 2019 Miata Sport brand new for $26,000 after destination. 23,000 miles later it's the best car I've ever owned.
I have a 2013 FR-S. After I Used Open Flash tablet and replaced the header that got rid of my torque dip plus I can run E85 for about 25 more hp and torque. Otherwise I was looking for a faster car. These easy mods made mine perfect.
I feel that "quicker than a miata" isn't quite high enough on the scale of bragging rights for most subaru owners. Also, rpm costs a lot too both in price and low end torque, so 250hp is probably just as unrealistic as a turbo.
He’s right too. You can always just add literally any aftermarket performance part you want once you buy it as well. Can’t wait to have more than one parking spot so I can get one of these.
Jas has long been my favorite auto journalist. I agree wit everything he said too. RWD, 6speed, & affordable. I've been sold. Might even trade in my WRX. Lol.
The torque dip is owing to the use of both port and direct injection. The engine varies between using port and direct, or a blend of both, depending on rpm, load requirements, and engine temperature. For instance, it's port only during warmup. It's a really interesting setup as it allows you to run a mix of leaned out port plus rich direct placed right near the ignition. Mid range is pretty efficient. Full injection is for high rpm, with advanced timing for power. Yes you could probably tune some of it out at the expense of emissions, but I imagine the bump here is going to be much less pronounced than in the previous car.
"They're all dead because you got greedy." He's right.
Truth hurts. But people vote with their dollars. While everyone was making a stink about sports cars not being fast enough, everyone bought crossovers. Not me personally, but you know, most of the car buying market.
Indeed. Its actually more enjoyed than a car with rocket like acceleration
@@redlion145 i would also argue that you can point a lot of that at the number of enthusiasts dropping overall.
OMFG i love this rant its so effing pure and true,in a sea of boats and tanks we only have so little choices now
Most of it is just market forces. The faux minivans have taken over the car market. Some Zs and Silvias had turbos and sold extremely well, some didn't and have languished ... they've been left out because the money makers are crappy minivans with doors that open out.
Jason Cammisa's arrival at Hagerty is the best thing ever.
fancy seeing u here
Can’t hold a job down.
Yes
The dude is pretty damn good at what he does.
agreed
thank you for explaining to the power addicts that there's other aspects to a fun car
Having driven 2 of the original ones (well one was a Toyota, but the same thing) and it needs more power, but no more than maybe 50hp and a similar increase in torque. It just had that horrible wheezy feeling, like it’s own engine couldn’t quite keep up with the rest of the experience.
Did it need more than 300hp? Absolutely not, it would have overpowered the chassis and made power the only feature. Same with the old NB MX-5, a little supercharger wakes it up just enough to get it going, but more power makes it way too much
Also get a sport bike if you want to go fast on a budget
Theres no point in trying to explain, the average driver just will not understand. Just like when people ask Keiichi Tsuchiya if he will upgrade his AE86 to a newer sports car, he just says, "No."
I’ve owned 30+ cars. And when I drove a brz, I couldn’t stay ahead of a non racing Honda odyssey while I’m shifting at 5000rpm. That just sux. Idc how well it handles. There’s a lot more straight road/acceleration situations then there are “ twisty bits that you’re gonna kick ass” on
@@hansolo6827 ya if the honda doesnt mind spinning tires all day what can you do in any manual car vs an auto lol
Adding Jason Cammisa to Hagerty is probably the single best business decision they made in 2020
Only reason why I subbed
Adding Jason Cammisa to anything is the best business decision one can make
Enjoy seeing Magnus stepping up his game too.
I was already subscribed, but now I activated the notification bell.
Jason is greaaat.
You know what up! I couldn't agree more.
Nailed it. The more people complain about sport cars “not having enough,” the more crossovers we’ll end up with.
It's not actually that black and white. Maybe the car manufacturers should offer that car with those "missing" features. No one who is market for sports coupe decides to buy crossovers just because some car doesn't have active cruise or something.
Also if Subaru Toyota added turbo on BRZ and GT86 mind be have problem... With hmm engines light.
@@mrjdmtunerboy.1463 Do you know what that problem would be? Supra, who would buy 45-55k car when you could buy turbo gt86 for 36k or something
oof the accuracy lol
@@DuBstep115 my crossover has more hp
Finally someone with a proper vision about the BRZ, it's not about perfomance figures, it's about the sheer driving experience which this car excells at, keeping it NA is a very smart move from Subaru and Toyota because it makes it a possible sports car to own, unlike the other sport cars which can be twice it's price or even more.
Most of the popular hot hatches are faster doe
@@lacrosse4higher they expensive simple
@@siddheshpillai3807 not really. I bought a 2018 GTI for $19k after taxes and it only had 20k miles on it. Still a modern car, leds, lsd, CarPlay, etc. depends on what you want your car to do. The new BRZ is more limited in practicality but i still want to test one out and see what they’re all about, might change my mind after a drive
@@lacrosse4higher It isn't a sports car though and the experience you get driving a light, manual, RWD car cannot be replicated in FWD. You have an infinite amount of choices for how to take a corner while in FWD hatches you really have no choice but to go off throttle in the corner or you'll lose all grip and understeer. You don't realize how much of a change it can be until you spend some time in each. And I own an example of each so I'm not talking out of turn.
@@lacrosse4higher The hot hatches are zero effort, you just drop a turbo engine into a low cost commuter car and stiffen up the suspension.
“Guess what happens, it gets so expensive you can’t afford it.”
-Jason dropping hard truths
@America Isnotademocracy Hhhmm, yes, limitless. That's why GM, which is the automotive company that most approaches this, doesn't offer a manual in the C8. Neither does BMyota in the Supra. Neither does Subaru in any model but the BRZ in Europe.
If a company's product doesn't sell, why would they bother making it? It's futile. Nothing is free, even for the execs that pocket most of the revenue in almost any company.
@America Isnotademocracy No such thing as limitless money. And if they had it, you wouldn't see any of it.
@@lfox02 GM also got Tremec to whip them up a custom DCT that's just for the C8, the real saving cost would be the shared platform of the V8.
Funny enough. The new BRZ motor is pretty much the Turbo 2.4L you can already find in Subie's new line up. Just without the Turbo and some other modifications.
@@DragonKnightX12 True.
I feel like thats not the case. They put turbos on eco boxes these days. WRX cost about the same and has a turbo, so does the mustang. Toyota on the other hand rarely uses turbos. And the one place they do use a turbo is their supra. Why would you want to buy a supra if you could get the brz for cheaper? I feel like thats the real reason
That torque adjusted graph is the best journalism I've ever seen.
I've long been waiting for people to start looking at the torque integral (the area underneath the curve over full rev range) ... and then start piecing together that area at each shift point from ... say... 0-100, 0-150, 60-150, etc.
That graph was the closest I've seen.
Not even Engineer Ex touches Calc I material.
someone should point that out to CNN and Fox News, because all they care about is fudged "facts" and propaganda, they just cater to different party bases. If only politics could be divided, yet still remain civil and based upon a combination of science and real world experiences... Automotive, Computing, and Music Gear news channels one UA-cam are more honest than other news sources, and have more journalistic integrity, and it's sad. That said, I'm not complaining that this guy does it right! MORE PLEASE!
@@APsupportsTerrorism That has always bothered me so much. The fact that people always focus on peak numbers is so annoying.
@@APsupportsTerrorism What, are you telling me that peak horsepower is not everything? I joke but video game reviewers are starting to show frame time graphs so maybe car reviews can catch up.
I daily drive a 1st GEN BRZ and it does not need a turbo. This car is for fun, not for speed in straight line. And it's not slow by any means. Gets good gas milage, easy on the maintenance. This handles great and puts a smile on your face. Don't let the car drive you, learn to drive and drive the car.
doesnt need a turbo, but the engine is pretty lackluster as a 2L
@@arcanevoid9199 2nd gen is much faster. I have both gens. 2nd gen in terms of acceleration is on par with the original Nissan 350z...and obviously handles 1 million times better than that.
Absolutely agree with you, I got a 2017 limited 6mt performance package and enjoy every shift at 7400 rpms.
Jason naming all those cars in a single breath must be man's greatest literary achievement.
Its called old school method of remembering. OR it was on the screen prompt or already written down for him to read off, just had to do so while not making it look obvious.
Yeah, look at his eyes
True, he just missed the Supra MK3 :D
@@ACommenterOnUA-cam Yeah, notes + it was like 10 breaths :P
@UA-cam Sucks i have been registered with UA-cam for 8 yrs now and only 3 people have commented on my username and you are number 3. So either nobody is paying attention or nobody cares.
It's a breath of fresh air in a world where most ICE cars for the mass markets are so numb, heavy, laggy and over-complicated. I will get one when my 1st gen BRZ become too broken one day, and then pass it to my kids.
yep. same. I love it that it has no turbo. Maybe i can buy one soon. I'm from eastern europe and this car costs as much as a house lol
Same here pretty much, and my BRZ has ended up being a dirt-road monster instead because that 'weak torque' turns out to be almost EXACTLY perfect for off-asphalt driving. It's just enough you CAN spin the tires, but not so much you're fighting to get grip.
The 2nd gen models I'm excited to see what happens with, there's a LOT of promise that instead of being a "great platform for tinkering" it'll just be an amazing car bone stock with zero complaints.
240sx but for the their generation
Your kids are so lucky to receive a BRZ one day! It is a brilliant car!
so you're saying you neglect maintenance? dafuq
I'm with you! At 47 I'm old enough to remember when "affordable" sports or sporty coupes were about handling, tossabilty, and just enough power to have fun wringing it out during your commute, while (mostly) staying within legal speed limits. A 0-60 time anywhere between 7-9 seconds was fine because it was about smiles per mile, while looking cool, not having pin you into your seat acceleration. Like you Jason, I bemoan that these cars virtually no longer exist aside from the BRZ/86 and Miata. Hell as a Honda guy I miss the CR-X!
Random person on the internet: “If Subaru adds a turbo to the BRZ I will buy it.”
Subaru: “Adds turbo”
Random person on the internet: “It’s too expensive, I can’t afford this, and it lost the balance that it had, they should have kept it the way it was.”
Subaru: “Oh for fucks sakes!”
Spot on.
Or you know people actually would buy it🤷♂️ I bought a wrx over a brz for just this reason.
@@BigfootUnibrowMan But there’s already a car for those people, it’s the 4 cylinder Supra.
@@BRZFA24 I think other problems why people didn't buys supra because is didn't have manuals and yes 4 cylinder model even expensive and disappointed with is price point. My opinion I take GT86 BRZ over 4 cylinders supra
@@mrjdmtunerboy.1463 I would take the BRZ over the Supra any day, does not matter if it comes with 205HP or 228HP as long as it comes with a 6 MT (which it will). :)
Excellent affordable sports car rant, Jason
@@bradleyb9424 do expand on this. I’m curious as to why
@@bradleyb9424 No ... its called a pause then say his name. Like your an idiot, PAUSE, Bradley B ...
Not affordable at all. Only second hand.
@@paulreza5354 some of us CAN afford an $80k car ...
@@ACommenterOnUA-cam I only earn 28k a year... :’(
I always liked the BRZ/GT86, but after understanding it more, I appreciate it a whole lot more.
We took those 90s everyday sports cars a bit for granted
This man singlehandedly made me decide to purchase this in either late 2021 or early 2022.
Buy a used one...shits incredibly overpriced new and super lackluster. For 1/2 to 1/3rd the cost you can get a much better and faster used car, or bump up another 1-3k dollars over a new BRZ and get a new full power sports car like mustang, charger, camaro, and many more
@@Shadow0fd3ath24 I appreciate your advice, but I don't care. It's a Subaru. The cars are "overpriced" ($29k is actually NOT that expensive for a brand new sports car) because Subarus are over-engineered. This is a non-turbo Subaru. This thing will last far longer than any American Muscle could ever hope to. Especially with proper maintenance. I'm not gonna want a subie bro's sloppy vape-filled seconds when it comes to this. I'm also buying this in Manual since that is a dying breed.
In short, I don't care that I can get an SN95 for $3k. I want this Subaru.
@@Shadow0fd3ath24 Two different types of cars. It's like comparing a katana to a broadsword.
I'm definitely getting ome but I'm going to wait a year so they can sort out the bugs.
@@postalpancho
That’s probably a good idea but god I don’t know how much longer I can wait
I need a Hagerty shirt that says,
Affordable sports cars...
"Their all died because you got greedy"
You are correct; it needs a supercharger.
it needs a nuclear reactor and a hyperdrive and instant transmission and a Bunta Fujiwara Clone that drives for you etc.
I guess a few more hp is good
Lol honestly, I think a supercharger fits these cars the best. Especially a positive displacement. Very Lotus-like!
@@michaelw2263 Waaaaaaah is never not appreciated.
Superchargers are actually even more expensive than turbos
Finally someone who changed my whole perspective on the Brz/86!
Hagerty, your channel is so huge and you probably won't read this comment because you get so many, but I just wanted to say THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO. This presenter is EXACTLY what I want to see from a car enthusiast analysis. This guy GETS it. My goodness, this video brings a tear to my eye. THANK YOU!!!
🥲
Jason Cammisa might be the best American car journalist. Sadly you can’t watch his old MotorTrend stuff on UA-cam but any of his videos are great
@@nathanchildress5596 I found some of them on the web as tire rack
I replaced the exhaust system on my 2018 model 86 with a 2.5inch exhaust and high flow cat and as a result the torque dip is gone, better fuel economy and a nice sound to boot.
I have no intention to boost the car as I am still happy with an NA engine (owned a few Celicas) and certainly don't regret not having a turbo or supercharger.
Yeah I got a UEL header and full 2.5" exhaust with a tune and the car drives much better torque dip is hardly noticeable. I think If you buy one of these cars and leave it stock your kind of missing the point of owning one.
Agreed. Tune it for e85 for an extra 20-30whp. I’m not joking.
That interior looks nice to me. Buttons for all functions related to the car, easy climate control, good gauges and carplay with a large enough screen. But I don't buy new cars, so it's not like my opinion really matters!
The styling/layout/etc can be nice, but I think he is mainly referring to the quality of materials.
I agree. I feel that unless you're used to nicer new cars/are an auto journalist, most interiors are good enough for the average consumer. It's all about perspective.
The interior, at least for me, is not a top priority. I want the performance, driving dynamics, overall brilliance and fun factor to take over each and everytime I drive a car.
@@mathurinkerbouchard8931 i wish this was more focused but realistically our market is way too small compared to an average consumer market. they follow the money and you can’t blame.
I wouldn't mind the interior, It's not supposed to be a luxury car.
And don't forget, they gave us this car in a world where every great name , everything we used to like is now a crossover or electric yukkk!!
Great video, subscribed!
If you’re referencing the Mach E, sounds like you’ve developed an opinion before actually driving it. It drives better than a “real” mustang.
@@PigglyWigglyDeluxe stfu 4 eyes.
@@PigglyWigglyDeluxe it’s garbage
@@PigglyWigglyDeluxe "Drives better"
Yeah, I doubt it.
@@PigglyWigglyDeluxe better isn't always "better". My favorite city car to date is a gen 2 mazdaspeed 3. The torque steer was buckets of fun, but is objectively bad.
I always hated the "it needs a turbo" i honestly thought a small supercharger would be better but you definitely highlighted the issues, Thank you.
That's where tuning companies come into play. Want slighly more power - slap Cosworth supercharger on it.
Exactly, always complaining and want a car to have everything and be everything but cant even afford a $30,000 car
And even if they could afford it, they would end up with a suv instead.
Jason made this exact point when he was on Smoking Tire Podcast.
@@fabioribeiro5071 complete fantasy bs. No enthusiast would be cross shopping this car to end up with a crossover when there's options like the Civic Si, GTI, Mustang, Camaro, Elantra GT out there. If you end up with the SUV then u were never an enthuasiast
The same guys on the internet who "won't buy a car with no manual" and then say that they'll "buy it used" when manufacturers do offer the manual.
@@papa_pt can they afford a $30,000, yeah, maybe, but they can only afford ONE and with baby momma due with the little blessing in 3 months, they buy the suv and “with plans of buying this car in 4 years when its used and ill strap a turbo with my income tax refund”. That’s who we’re referring to. Or at least me
The difference between UA-camrs and automotive journalists makes itself super clear through the quality of any video that Jason and team create. Another amazing video! Thank you!
I can't explain how perfect Jason went over everything. 11/10
This guy changed my whole outlook on this car, thank you
I'm glad he explained how they fix the torque curve. That was the biggest issue.
@@pleasedontwatchthese9593 , headers + tune and you don't have it anymore ;-)
Having owned the first 86… that torque dip was a challenge. I loved the NA engine, but in daily driving it was very noticeable.
A new header and e85 flexfuel kit (I.e. pretty cheap mods) fixed it and made the car SO MUCH better!
So this new one still being NA but having decent torque = 🎉🎉🎉😊
Great video. As a Miata ND2 owner I am happy to see the BRZ get some of the love it deserves. Also, even happier that I won’t have to hear the awful noise that comes out of the original. I’d just add that, yes, you probably can spend almost 40k on a Miata, but really all the best stuff can be had for right at 30. Club package, LSD, soft top, heated seats, done.
The subtle glow on the “blow me” hoodie was priceless 😂
Your video wins the internet Jason.
You win the internet.
You’re so good at what you do, please don’t stop.
Ever.
Automotive Journalism at its finest!! So many great points made in every video bringing new perspectives and a fresh looks at things we usually take for granted!! Great job as always Jason and Hagerty crew!!!
Wonderful. Also, thank you for not murdering us with ads.
You’ve made this channel my new favorite automotive UA-cam channel. I always learn something new.
And oh how I miss those sports coupes from back in the day.
Really wanting more sports cars with the same mind set that Subaru and Toyota have with the BRZ twins. Low cost, great handling and reliable... We need more of this.
Also, I want one.
Hagerty hit it out of the park bringing on Jason! This and his other series are FANTASTIC! There are some other automotive channels Ive enjoyed for years but the way he tells a story is unlike any of them.
After this perfectly rational presentation, people are still going to say, “But I want a turbo...”
They can buy Mustang :D Or BMW .. or whatever.
@@JimBobDewayne, in our country it will have double price of gr86 I think. :D Also the chassis wasn't changed .. So, it will be the same Japan Mustang.
Considering Dodge was slapping a Turbo on a car (SRT 4) and selling it for 20K 20 years ago, please stop with the excuses for this company and this car.
@@Gotallofthem1 idk with force induction, you’re looking at $36,000+ with larger brakes, better suspension components, and weight.
That’s where your aftermarket tunning comes in if you want.
.
Like Jason said, it’s meant to be an affordable sports car.
@@Gotallofthem1 , nobody trying to excuse. You have a wise choise of turbo cars. Please, select what you want ;-)
FINALLY SOMEONE WITH SOME COMMON SENSE
Best video on the BRZ that I have ever seen. He explains why the Turbo is not needed in the BRZ with facts. Plus there is more that straightline speed and power on a spec sheet. This car ( and the Toyota GR 86) have character, affordable, reliable cool sport cars .
I just love watching Jason’s reviews. It’s like what automotive journalism should be like. Unbiased and to the point. Thanks Jason. Now did he say BRZ STI? 😃
It's so good to have Jason back on UA-cam! Keep up the great work.
so true. they killed so many good cars. it is sad to see they don’t exist anymore. the 90’s was a golden age
You're so on point on why we have no more affordable sports cars like before. We have so few today compared to back then.
This guy....WE NEED MORE OF THIS GUY😁
5:30 there you go modern market demand.
Its so damn clear in smartphone industry as well.
Great honest and hard criticism of consumers. People don't know what they want, I think this is why the sports car market has subsided in recent years.
Hoodie game on point!
Awesome to see you guys here. Also: Lexus ftw!
Absolutely! There are entire videos explaining why we don’t need a turbo. Ugh.
@@petermuller161 yeee
that was one of the greatest pieces of automotive reviews i've ever laid eyes on. KEEP THIS UP PLEASE!!!
I didn't like the redesign at first, but it is definitely growing on me and it is looking good, especially that rear end. I like how they removed the 3rd brake light from inside the cabin and installed it on to the spoiler... which means, all base GR86s and BRZs will have spoilers and it won't be an option.
Well done, Jason & crew! Looking forward to you giving Savage Geese and them Throttle House boys some stiff competition!
Awww snap you included the Nissan Pulsar. My second car in high school. Loved that car.
I had one too!
I love my 2019 86GT. It's an auto (left knee can't handle clutches anymore) but I threw on a loud exhaust and tuned it to run off E85. I don't care to race, I just love zipping through S curves.
5:34 dude spit such hard facts
Subscribed for that alone
Even if he’s never driven it he gets it. I have a feeling I’m going to be rewatching this video a LOT until I eventually am able to buy this car in a couple of years
i just picked up a 2024 brz-ts. i actually love it. i was going to get a 2023 wrx, but the red-line was too low. even though the brz does not have turbo, you can really push it to red-line, and it handles corners much better than the wrx. only complaint is that it is a bit noisy on the highway. it is like an echo chamber in the car with the windows rolled up. but it is a blast to drive, and is pleasing on the eyes.
I may need to test drive one of these. Great sales pitch! Its nice to see the kiss method applied for a change for pure driving experience
Give me analog gauges
Videos like these doesn’t even make it to a million views in a year. Come on guys! This video is so informative and with relatively little views like that it wouldn’t encourage it’s makers to make more videos like this.
Absolutely spot on observations! Nailed it.
Best auto related video I have seen in years.
That gauge cluster is the cleanest, nicest looking one I’ve ever seen. Why can’t all of them be like that, instead of including frivolous graphics, confusing layouts, and choppy animations? This makes the rest look like clown shoes!
4:50 this is the exact word that I wanna say that no one couldn't said it better than Jason Cammisa himself 😮💨
This is a very analytic review, specially the price point issues with the turbo and extra stuff that would increase the car price. Hey Jason, we need more videos like this. I liked the video!!
Finally, something a person with a normal amount of money can buy and enjoy. Miata is a little too snug. Hyundai should come out with a new Front engined rear-wheel drive coupe as well...Miss the genesis coupe.
People, buy this car! Save the affordable sports cars and manuals with your wallet.
I might buy the car as its the closest thing to my old 02 celica, but not with a manual.
This car is +20k AUD for a used one from 2013! The new ones are 42k-38k! Thats insanely expensive for what you get.
Man this is some Old Top Gear level content, but not a copycat. This has rich personality and flavor of its own.
4:16 Who sits on a engine like that? Easy with that dipstick Jimmy!
I love this guy’s energy
I might be partial because I have one at home, but every time I see it, I smile and when I get in, I don't ever what to leave the driver's seat.
CAMMISA: "Turbo is not a good idea on this car"
Also CAMMISA: Sweat shirt says "Blow Me"…
I had a 2013 GT 86, I loved every minute of the 3.5 years I had it.
He sounds like ryan reynolds sometimes, i close my eyes and i imagine him in a deadpool suit under a car.
Jason
I love these videos.
Please don't ever stop making them!
A 2022 car that has its interior still stuck in 2016, great job
I got a 2018 370Z, my interior still thinks it's 2009! LoL
To me I could care less about the interior because it's a sportcar. You want a nice interior? Buy a fucking luxury car.
You should be on top gear bro. Wouldn't care if it's UK or American. You the best car guy on UA-cam. Keep up the awesome work.
Thanks for schooling those that needed it.
This car is supposed to be fun.
FUN. Excessive power doesn't necessarily equal that.
One of the most fun cars I ever owned was a '91 Celica GTS. Power wasn't it's strong suit, but it was exhilarating.
You can get a WRX starting at 27,495 of coarse with a turbo and all wheel drive. And the BRZ starts at 28,845 with no turbo or all wheel drive.
you are a moron
@@Mgoblagulkablong That's a great argument. Thank you.
Bingo, it is all about protecting supra and wrx sales, all the 'handling performance' are fanboy excuses
@@Mgoblagulkablong literally
Development cost of the chassis, wrx is just base on Impreza no extra cost
Genuinely fun review; you have a terrific approach to explaining the details of this car. The comparisons are valuable, and fun. thanks!
4:50 I now show this clip to every 13y/o keyboard warrior that has never touched a real stick or pedal yet whines about the 200something hp in the BRZ or the 181hp in the Miata is too little.
We were all like that at 13, jus different numbers. Then my dad slapped me on top of 2 stroke motorcycle and I understood what engines really are.
i just saw this video 9 months late, i have liked this, shared my hypotheses and transfered the link to this to over a dozen different users. I am a Mazda 83 12a FB and 6 port RX8 owner. You are a juggernaut of our zooming, habitually innatentive generation. I idol you Jason Cammisa, but keep the discernment about your cars real so the congratulations doesn't get over your head.
PT$D speaking. Keep it real. Love you from the bottom of my heart.
You’re right about the torque dip. 3-4K rpms in my manual Mazda3 feels glorious. The power just builds.
My first car was an 86 fiero GT and man was that thing basically a go kart. Not a ton of power but in the corners and the handling was just mint. A really fun rear wheel drive and I miss that. My 2012 civic si is fun but I have been looking to an 86/brz as my next car as I miss that fun rear wheel drive sports car.
"Member" the Mazdaspeed Miata that came with a turbo...
Sure do agree about missing the sports cars that had no turbo... RIGHT ON!
Thanks for the clarification for NO TURBO
Can someone please tell me how they took one off the best looking new car and f’ed it up?
I think it still looks good. Still the best looking Subaru by far
When he said YOU CAN’T AFFORD IT! I lost it!!😆😆😁
Don't forget the base model MX-5 Miata exists. Just before my 26th birthday I bought a 2019 Miata Sport brand new for $26,000 after destination. 23,000 miles later it's the best car I've ever owned.
Jason NAILS it on this video. This car is now perfect as is, and I am glad Subaru/Toyota made it happen. So glad in fact, I had to get me one. 🤘
I see Adam Sandler,I click.....
“Budget...”
I have a 2013 FR-S. After I Used Open Flash tablet and replaced the header that got rid of my torque dip plus I can run E85 for about 25 more hp and torque. Otherwise I was looking for a faster car. These easy mods made mine perfect.
This 2nd gen BRZ is sweet.
I wish for the STI they would just do a high performance 2.4 engine without a turbo
I would say the new styling is good. It makes the old one look like a box.
I feel that "quicker than a miata" isn't quite high enough on the scale of bragging rights for most subaru owners. Also, rpm costs a lot too both in price and low end torque, so 250hp is probably just as unrealistic as a turbo.
also I'm sure having to comply with Emissions worldwide was a factor too. The new regs are Tough
He’s right too. You can always just add literally any aftermarket performance part you want once you buy it as well. Can’t wait to have more than one parking spot so I can get one of these.
6:46 Me. Thanks government salary during a pandemic.
4:50 turbos also add heat, which I think is more overlooked than cost. Great video!
Jas has long been my favorite auto journalist. I agree wit everything he said too. RWD, 6speed, & affordable. I've been sold. Might even trade in my WRX. Lol.
Why is there even a torque dip though? That’s the real question.
Emissions
bc it revs high and meets 2021 emission regulations at the same time
@@Mgoblagulkablong is it possible to tune this dip out?
@@TML34 not for a jedi
The torque dip is owing to the use of both port and direct injection. The engine varies between using port and direct, or a blend of both, depending on rpm, load requirements, and engine temperature. For instance, it's port only during warmup. It's a really interesting setup as it allows you to run a mix of leaned out port plus rich direct placed right near the ignition. Mid range is pretty efficient. Full injection is for high rpm, with advanced timing for power. Yes you could probably tune some of it out at the expense of emissions, but I imagine the bump here is going to be much less pronounced than in the previous car.