A kidnapping from a hospital leads to a triple disappearance mystery
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- Case 256: Jill Rosenthal
On April 27 1964, young mother Dora Fronczak was in her hospital bed feeding her one-day-old son, Paul, when a nurse entered the room and said she had to take Paul back to the nursery. Dora handed her baby over, and the nurse hurried out of the room. Still carrying baby Paul, the nurse fled the hospital through a rear entrance and disappeared into Chicago’s city streets. It didn’t take long for staff at Michael Reese Hospital to realise Paul Fronczak had been kidnapped, and soon the city’s largest-ever manhunt was underway. Despite the best efforts of the police, no trace of the woman or Paul was found.
Then, just over a year later, a toddler is found abandoned in Newark, New Jersey. Investigators are quick to identify him as possibly being the missing Paul. But was he?
CREDITS
Narration - Anonymous Host
Research & writing - Erin Munro
Creative direction - Milly Raso
Production and music - Mike Migas
Music - Andrew D.B. Joslyn
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It's totally bizarre that various members of the Rosenthal family ignored the fact that the twins were being mistreated and then ignoring that they disappeared suddenly. It's insane.
I grew up in a family with that type of dynamic.
Ignore it and it didn't happen or will go away.
It *is* insane.
Everybody knew about the abuse of Jack and Jill and DID NOTHING...... Who were the monsters that bore them;and the even worse relatives who watched it happen and did nothing?
If you were rescued, as Jack, would you want to know?
@@iknitbecuzmurderisfrownedupon My family is similar, I once tried to tell a relative about the abuse at home and how scared I was of my mother and all I got was "how dare you speak about your parents like that", even today everyone of them knows what me and my sister lived through and nobody will acknowledge it.
Do the same to those things who harm children. Only then is it going to stop. Evil vile nothings need to rot in hell
@@c.w.8200 exactly.
Dora, the mother of Paul, was scolded by the doctor for handing over Paul to the fake nurse. Really, it's the full responsibility of the hospital to make sure that anybody who doesn't belong in the hospital should never enter the inner sanctum of a nursery with babies and mothers. The doctor, it seems to me, that he was trying to pawn off the guilt on the mother for doing what she did because he didn't want to have the hospital responsible. Really, Dora could not have known the fake nurse was going to waltz in and do this crazy stuff. The hospital, in my opinion, is fully responsible.
Both that Dr. And the Dr of the cousin that tried to report the twins abuse..... assh*les!! What is wrong with these "Doctors"?!
You just didn’t question authority figures back in the day. Now we know so much better.
He should have been fired. It makes me furious that he blamed this poor grief-stricken woman when his own nursing staff saw her, didn't recognise her and didn't question she was not wearing the cap. Mrs Fronzak must have felt such despair anyway, a doctor saying something like that could have tipped her over the edge and resulted in her death. Totally irresponsible of him.
That's a doctor, they're usually very narcissistic and without empathy. I've worked with plenty.
Wow great catch and awesome analysis carol!!!!☝️☝️☝️☝️ you must be some sort of genius
Paul is amazing. Knowing you were blessed to be raised in baby Paul's place, given a great life, but still doing everything to find Jill. I truly hope he figures it out. I have a feeling she died before he was abandoned but if she's out there, DNA will help find her. What a crazy story!
Heartbreaking case. The relatives who knew the truth and about the abuse and did nothing, are just as guilty.
That happens a lot in narcissistic families. They are all hush hush about the truth and if anyone speaks it they are scapegoated
Sounded like the aunt wanted to, but was scolded by a professional. Times sure have changed since then luckily.
Paul's poor mother. Changing one heavy burden of grief for another. Heartbreaking.
The child abuse in this case, and all of the people around who saw and ignored it, is beyond upsetting. Sadly, it still happens every day in this country. The people who see something and don't do anything are accountable.
What happens here in the states pale in comparison to some countries. And this is horrific as is.
Although I've known of Paul's story for years... This is so much more a complete recollection of the entire story. And it's heartbreaking, for Paul/Kevin & Jack/Paul. Dysfunctional, selfish parents created so much misery. Wishing Jack/Paul, as possibly the only survivor now, all the best.
Thank you for all of the research.
What a tragic story. I hope Jill is still alive.
It does not look promising. :(
Truth sure can be stranger than fiction.
It Always is!!
Thinking the same thing.
Incredible how much detail you have included and told to us in such a smooth, enthralling way, keeping us completely invested in the whole story… more intricate and well put together, more so than any of the big news stations or journalists of the most famous media outlets that also covered this tragic, and just all around strange, case… I commend you for your hard work 👍👏💪
I could not agree more with all you've said here!
@@Dani92670 I echo your sentiments
Countless people saw the woman leaving quickly, even possibly frantically with this baby and not one person did a thing to stop it or point it out or report it. Despicable.
Back then
U didn't do anything
Because u were taught to
Not Question but Respect
Authority figures like cops + nurses
People were less suspicious and there security wasnt like it is now
She was dressed as a Nurse in a hospital. She would not have stuck out as abnormal behavior.
@@jamesknapp64 Really? That's your piece? Aesthetics? Well, I seem to recall hearing that another hospital kicked her out before this one. Behavior was questionable. But costumes are rentable.
@@jamesknapp64 you are right but what I mean is today not just anyone can walk around a hosp ward. At least where I live in Singapore they do check visitors and staff or security would notice a stranger in uniform. Visitors have to register before being allowed to visit.
Well done, very detailed, unlike the previous stories I have seen about this. It's mind-boggling that the other relatives just ignored what happened. I do genealogy and I always laugh about people who talk about their ancestors as if there was always love in every relationship. No, there wasn't. There was abuse, neglect, all of the horrible things that we see in other families, could have absolutely have happened in our own. I'm glad that Paul was able to discover the truth for himself. I really wish the reason behind the kidnapping of the real Paul could have been discovered.
Wow, what a story. You couldn't make it up. I had heard of Paul in a documentary which showed CeCe helping to find his biological family but we did not get to hear about his biological side. I can relate to all the secrecy. In the 1960 and 1970s, my mother forbade us to talk about various missing members of our family, including my father. My siblings and I were told it was none of our business and we obeyed! Nowadays, with all the technology, it is virtually impossible to keep a secret as everyone seems to tell everybody else absolutely everything. All we need now is to hear Jill became a nun in a silent order. It would be great to find her or at least what happened to her. Thanks for this upload.
I can't help but think that "somebody somewhere knows something."
@@stephaniek1076there's always someone that does, but the problem is nobody wants to get involved.
Which is why my abuse lasted so long even when the blood, bruises and scars were available for all to see.
What an extensive and complicated and complex narrative! Thx for all of the detailed research in bringing this story to us. My prayers to the individuals and families affected here, and to those in society whose family dynamics are similar. No easy task sorting through and trying to reconcile this stuff! Families can be really messy, I've noted!
Great to see you back, hope your break was restful!
How horrible that anyone should have to go through that. Pray Paul and his daughter have a living and peaceful life's. This story brought tears to my eyes. ❤❤❤
Welcome back Casefile's!! Hope your break was great!! We missed you!!💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾
After 4 painfull weeks without Casefile, as always, brilliant
They were on holiday. They left a message about it on Spotify
How could anyone be mad that someone cared for obviously neglected children? Vulnerable, innocent babies. Ugh.
Heartbreaking. Superb coverage - thanks, again.
These hospital kidnappings are disturbing especially considering how brazen someone must be to feel comfortable stealing a baby from a hospital.
The last place you don't want to feel safe is a hospital.
Hospitals should really start having more security and being much stricter about who can enter any person's room. I know it's not feasible to have a security guard at each hospital room entrance but maybe they need to have doors to the rooms closed and only nurses and doctors have a card to enter and anyone else visiting needs to be vetted to be a verified member of the family or close friend.
I understand these situations don't happen that often in the larger picture but I'm sure there are several simple ways they can make the patients more safe and secure.
In the U.K maternity hospital wards have automatic locks and you need to phone ahead to say you are coming and a 4 digit code is required for you to enter the ward. The door closes behind you and locks automatically. But back in the day anyone could have wandered in. Cases like this one have probably increased security on maternity wards around the world. However, vulnerable patients, including those recovering from surgery are still on wards that could be accessed by anyone.
These days, I believe there are systems in the mother & babies hospital bracelet’s. Essentially, the doors won’t open if the baby’s wristband is not alongside the mothers.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I’ve absolutely heard that before so it’s a good system!
Excellent presentation and investigation. Great quality. Thank you.
gd its insane the lack of security in the maternity ward back then.
After my 1st baby, she was in a plastic cot, with my mum. A woman said I'm a nurse and baby needs to go to nursery until feeding time. My mum knew i was breastfeeding and said, you aren't taking the baby, her mum is having a quick shower and will be right back, a tussle began between my mum and this 'nurse'. Each pulling at the cot. My mom said "you are not taking this baby from her mother's bedside and not into another room" my mum said, i just had a funny feeling, like me she didn't want my baby in a communeral nursery full of other babies, to feed every 4 hours. With only basic identity features to identity over a dozen babies in the nursery you could only enter with nurses approval only seeing yours through the glass.
As is often said ' truth is stranger than fiction ' This is an amazing story and so intricate !!
This is an amazingly good documentary. So thoroughly researched and well presented. Congratulations and thank you!
Such a moving story. Sorry that Kevin was deprived of a happy childhood but glad Jack was saved from a wretched one.
Amazing and heartbreaking story. Thanks fir sharing it,
Awesome episode and sooo glad your back on Saturday mornings again.
Very well told. So sad. This type of story is my preference for this channel. True historical mystery but not full of sadism, psychopaths and physical torture.
Why would you steal or pay for a black market baby only to treat them shitty.
You are the very best! Great to have you back!
Very sad story all around.
Wow. Far out hey. What a tangled, messed up web of deceit. So, so tragic...
Such interesting case! Thanks for presenting Casefile 👌 well done as always
Omg I've been waiting and waiting hahahah casefile withdrawals are the worst!! 😂😂
Love your work as always
So glad the day of this kind of foul family secrecy is largely in our past.
Thank you Casefiles ☆☆☆
This story is so so sad , the 60s saw many cases of child abuse that never saw the light of day. This made me cry 😢
Fascinating case.
No one told Paul of his kidnapping and it turns out he’s not even Paul. Very interesting case here.
Tear jerker😢
No cameras outside the store.....umm this was the early 60s lol
So we'll put together.
You kept me interested the entire way through .
How heart breaking to find the Biological Paul..only to lose him from cancer .
CF your back i have missed you 🥰
So heartbreaking and tragic story.
Wow, I'm kind of speechless after that. I wasn't expecting all the twists and turns in this fascinating and frankly very sad story. Practically every turn is stained with sadness. But mostly I'm baffled by how the people around the Rosenthal family were willing to turn a blind eye and shrug their shoulders when it was clearly evident that something very wrong was happening in relation to those twin children. Even the response of doctor that Marie's sister Barbara confided in was absolutely shocking to me. Was nobody capable of empathy or care? Where was their humanity? All very disturbing!! At the start of the story, when the kidnapping of the real baby Paul took place, I did immediately wonder if he was stolen primarily to be sold. Whether it was an organised crime syndicate ring or not, I'll be very surprised if he wasn't kidnapped for that purpose. And here was me thinking my family history had some skeletons, but mine's positively dull by comparison!
There's so many crazy things in this case but what struck me is where they waited for a letter about their missing child. I so take for granted our instant connections we have now.
Fascinating story here.
I think Jill was killed seeing the missing Jill someone in the family decided to take Jack and abandon him. Im glad Jack managed to escape the nightmare that was his biological family.
Love how steady and calming the narrators voice is
Gosh! What an incredibly bizarre tale of identities and upbringings!
I found Dora’s and Chester’s change of heart regarding DNA testing somewhat sweet, as well as the fact that Jack kept the name they wanted to give Kevin. Sometimes your real family has no ties with you, there comes a point in your life where you had so many experiences with your family that finding out it was ‘fake’ all along creates no grief. Both Jack and Kevin had already lived full lives by then.
Omg, has me in tears😢
Such a very sad and tragic situation. Love and peace always to Paul. xx
What a tragic story
The awful thing is that children are still being hideously abused today. Every time a case comes up social services say 'lessons will be learnt'....
I wonder how many mistaken babies were given back before DNA
Fascinating and heartbreaking😢❤
Wow,what a great story😮 I truly hope that he finds his sister! More importantly, that everyone blood related or not love each other to the best of their ability❤
Fascinsting, disturbing, terribly sad.
I would not be surprised if Jill was really "dropped" like Jack (or Paul, depending) and not anything bad had happened to her. The boy had a black eye - maybe one the babysitters took it upon herself to save the kids from such an abusive and uncaring family... Jill never found out the truth the way Jack did. I mean, had he never found that box of newpaper clippings, this entire mystery would never have been exposed, right?
Also what's up with that guy that suddenly drops the bombshell that Jack had a twin? how did they even figure it out? I know they were into the field, but still. Weren't the twins a taboo subject? How'd they get anything on them?
Crazy sad story 😢
Thank you
Cece has given interesting comment to the Kohberger case also.
46:56 probably the best advice ever, and from a doctor no less… so with this logic if anyone ever faces a problem that isn’t an immediate family member or close friend, even they’re being hacked to death, just ignore it because it’s not “your business”.
This is such a heartbreaking story, but it looks like Paul/Jack had better upbringing with his adopted parents.
Unfortunately I think Jill is dead and this led to Jack being abandoned.
I am glad that Dora got to know what happened to Paul, even if his upbringing was not what she imagined and hoped.
I'm guessing that circumcision is normal in America fir all boys, otherwise it would have been obvious that Jack was Jewish.
So tragic for all involved, all because of 1 person stealing a baby.
And when it comes to child abuse.....the past stinks 🤬
Christians are also circumcised and many Americans are practicing Christians.
@jamesknapp64 That doesn't happen to non-Jewish babies in the U.K unless there is a medical issue. I wonder why it is so popular in the U.S?
First story I have heard from your channel. Subscribed!! I was on the edge of my seat. How absolutely horrible almost everyone was in this story!!! I'm glad that Jack/Paul was given such a better life. But heartbroken that Paul/Kevin was ripped away from these lovely parents to have the horrible life that the new Paul escaped.
These 2 "Doctors" in this story are absolutely assh*les 🤬
Hey Marie.... drunk ass, child abusing, POS.... STOP HAVING KIDS!!! In the 60s....people know where babies come from. If you don't want kids, use birth control. Don't abuse kids. You could have given them up earlier.
I am absolutely disgusted that so many people didn't get what they deserved in this story. It's so heartbreaking that Dora never got to meet her 1st son again. I'm glad they did reconnect. But to have him back for only a minute then lose him again is so sad. But she did so great with her other 2 sons ❤. This was a roller-coaster.
Someday in the very near future I truly believe DNA will be taken, recorded and documented at birth.
First I can see that there will need to be laws in place to protect discrimination against those findings, ie insurance limitations or disqualifications.
But DNA identifies us as unique individuals and the tragedies like this, or unknown victims of accidents or foul play, would be much easier to solve.
We all deserve to be recognized as having existed in this world.
I read this book by Paul Fromczak. The house he left was one of disfunction. Most of the relatives are in complete denial.
So apparently keeping family peace is more important than the welfare of two babies.
Oh you are back. Thank goodness. Its been the longest month or so ever.
I'd like to suggest another 2 cases, both Australian, that would be interesting for Casefile to look into involving the death/disappearance of children, which are that of Keli Lane and her new born baby Tegan, and Kathleen Folbigg and the death of her 4 children, particularly in light of Ms Folbigg's recent release from prison.
Unfrickin believable.
Good to see you back casefile! Also no need to listen to the episode as you've already told us what happens! Those kind of titles spoil it as the reduced number of views shows people aren't bothering to listen to them as they know what happens! If you're good with low views, then keep this title format. Noticed subscriptions have slowed down a lot too. Jmo before anyone jumps on me!
Very interesting story.... people amaze me everyday. What kind of family just accepts 2 toddlers as being "gone" not to mention the parents treatment of those toddlers? Geez.
YESSSS! It was a bad morning until I saw Casey uplod!
@hallie hope your day got better 😊
I believe Jill is deceased. Rest in peace, baby girl.❤
This is the most depressing story I've heard.
Jacks parents and family members who knew about this should have been punished. Han ging would have been too good for them. How in Christ does twins just suddenly disappear from your family and in general?
Is is so totally devastating for all involved 😢
I found this episode tedious.
Maybe it's the guy's tone of voice.
A sadly timely story considering the news out of the UK. :(
What news?
@@loredanadincu4300 Lucy Letby. U.K. nurse convicted of killing 7 babies, suspected of a further 6 (but more now coming to the forefront)
@@Cornwalls.best.doorway but how is it news only now. They say shd killed them between 2015 and 2016. She is convicted of killing 7 babies and of trying to kill other 6 .
@@Cornwalls.best.doorwayThis has literally f*ck all to do with that case.
People just say stupid shit for the sake of it, apparently
@@yeetnama9094 I imagine it's because it is an issue about hospital safety.
What story so involved and interesting it’s like a tangled web being unwoven. The tragedy of two families and a rescued boy from a life of neglect into love and nurturing.
Hurray!!!! You’re back!!!!
I am shocked I haven't even started and I got a heartwarming ad about the hospital UA-cam what in the world!
America is beautiful, but crazy place, and this from someone born in '64 also.
Thank you CaseFiles.
The abuse of Jack and Jill is unfathomable. His bio mom was evil
@Casefile Presents. This complex familial case is utterly bizarre. I’ve never heard of this case ever. Are there other places that further investigate these families. What is the name of this book?? Please provide a link to the book! Ty so much. Brilliantly done here. Subbed.
I'm late to read your comment, but Paul wrote a book called The Foundling. I read it several years back.
This is some Bobby Dunbar case insanity.
What an effed up family!! 😢
All these ppl saw her in very strange situations, and did nothing smh. She shouldve been stopped at the stairwell, exiting the building, in the lot, by the cab driver. The janitor shouldve reported it. The ppl she oddly popped in on to look at their baby shouldve asked other staff about it. The ppl who she told she was with ear, nose, and throat shouldve asked about it. Ffs most of the times she was spotted with the baby it wouldve been LESS suspicious if she was in normal clothes! Why would a nurse be exiting the building with a baby?! Or leaving the ward with a baby via the stairs?! All it takes it for good men to do nothing.
wow what a tragic and crazy tale of 3 children whos lives were put into turmoil... so many secrets taken to graves
I cant believe his biological siblings talked to him then cut him off so suddenly. What garbage those people are
It was a pretty dysfunctional family. He was very fortunate to be abandoned and then adopted. Sadly the real Paul Fronzac's loss was his gain. However in adopting him his mother at least got to find her son, albeit so late
@V8DV. That’s exactly what happens in malignant narcissist families. Alienating siblings and all members of the family. It’s called flying monkeys contaminate all members against the truth teller. It has happened to me so I know first hand. Ty for sharing.
Why would they feel a bond? It doesn't suddenly fall from the sky. They had very poor upbringing and most probably loads of emotional issues. Maybe that way was better for him anyway.
I feel sorry for those siblings. The guilt, the hurt, the looking and reliving their past. I bet their parents were abusive to them too. Why to relive that past?
I don’t think they really are garbage people. They already had a dysfunctional family, but to learn they had two more siblings and one has not been found? That would be really hard mentally and emotionally.
Wild story!
I just can't wrap my head around this one. How is it possible to see infant care as a suitable substitute for having your own child in the first place? What part of taking care of a baby could possibly become such an absolute obsession? How can someone's life experiences add up to the instinctual desire to reproduce becoming all consuming? If it wasn't necessary for them to have their own child, but simply to care for a child, how was adoption or even a job caring for children not a superior option?
I wish i could tell my story. But i cant . At least not for another 12 or 13 years. I did find one side of them. But they were very cold and uninterested while i was so excited. 😢 I finally gave up on them. Now if i could find the truth on the other side. I cant let myself think about it too much or it gets to driving me crazy and upsets me deeply. I'm essentially an orphan in my 60s. I only found out my origins were more twisted than this story when i was 13 and then more in my 20s. Its hard. I feel for these people. Im sorry for what the kids went through.
Crazy 😮life
So heartbreaking 😢 How anyone could have just allowed these children to be abused are just as guilty.
1:01:00 I'd unfortunately guess the boy could have had multiple black eyes in his life up to being found. That means the baby sitter could have seen him with one without Fred in the picture, and then when Jack was found with a black eye, it was another from more abuse. Just a thought that seems more probable than your other theories about the timeline and such
This whole story was tragic and thought you did a very respectful job presenting it and proving such a good timeline of the events.
Wow, i wasn't expecting the direction this story took - pretty horrible, it's hard to listen to this kinda thing, people who can treat innocent children that way, i hope karma is real and they have it coming