I always felt the biggest difference between talent now and then is the sheer depth of the current Poole (lol) because the average bench player is much better than the ones of decades past. But that’s evolution and opening up the game worldwide so as time went on, it was kinda expected
An “ok” player today is so much better than an “ok” player 40 years ago. My favorite thing to talk about is the borderline all-star role players today like Tyler Herro, 6man Lou Will, Malik Monk, Tobias Harris, those guys would be star players running their own teams back in the 80s and 90s, but today they’re 3rd or 4th options. I love pissing oldheads off by pointing out that Klay Thompson, a career 2nd and 3rd option, is just as good if not better than Reggie Miller, who was considered a top star of his era. Their stats are so close it’s not even funny. (stats aren’t everything of course)
Brent is kinda like thinking basketball, and I love Jomboys, but comparing this channel to Jomboy is like comparing Breaking Bad to SNL. TB is about garnering unique insight from stats, game footage, etc. and Jomboys is more like a funny baseball news show with occasional play-by-play
And that's just talking about the American player development program. Overseas, younger prospects learn how to play against professionals by playing against professionals. Luka and Wemby being NBA-ready almost immediately is a testament to that system.
A lot of the development in the game was imported from Europe. It took a while to adapt it to the NBA's rules but shooting bigs & spaced out, playmaking ball has been their modus operandi for decades.
@@KnoxWheelerJr I feel this observation is underrated. The NBA's brand globalization and real outreach started only around 30 or so years ago. So it took time for ideas to exchange on amateur levels and affect the NBA game kept evolving. The benefits definitely show up to the specific players highlighted by Ben who are older but stayed longer at the college levels to have more refined reps and organized team ball experience. Which easily carries over at the pro level earning more playing time because compared to other younger players, they see the game faster.
@allenross3050 European Busts still exist today and Bargani he was drafted in 2006, when Dirk, Parker, Ginobli, Gasol brothers, Vujacic, Kirilenko, Galinari were in the league. Just means those lottery busts were dratfed too high. Luol Deng was a lottery pick. Even today there are hardly any Euro lottery picks bar Luka and Wemby and they are exceptional. I don't get your point tbh it doesn't stand up to scrutiny
@allenross3050 There were Also a ton of College Basketball Busts Remember Adam Morrison and Anthony Bennett? Spurs Built a Dynasty in the 2000s based around Duncan and 2 former Euroleague Players (Parker and Manu). Their rival in the West was also built around a Former Euroleague player (Dirk) and the Lakers had to trade for a European to compete (Gasol)
Certain rookies have always made an impact wouldn't say theyre smarter. Magic won a chip rookie year out of position. The lack of legitimate defensive presence actoss the league is why we see so many young players with inflated offensive stats.
@@ThinkingBasketball thank you for always making great content . I wish I could have a conversation with you . Like via text or something your knowledge about the game is so valuable 😭😭. Peak ball knowledge 🔥
Another point that I feel was a little brushed over, coming in so early compared to rookies of the past just gives so much more experience. The metrics you used were measured by age, so a 24 year old player nowadays has 3-5 seasons of NBA runs where a rookie from an older genereration would only have 1-3. Makes all the difference imo.
Ben what a fantastic video! I love how you first explain from a zoomed out perspective over decades and then dive into the details. I think Rick torbetts read and react system has played a tremendous role in the development of the new generation. Thanks for sharing this masterpiece!
This video is one of the most amazing, insightful and entertaining basketball-realted videos i have ever seen. Your channel is different to any other, i love you analysis so much! keeo uo the amazing work
you're seeing this clear as day especially in today's game, the explosion of instant young role players in a way that I just haven't seen before. usually you were either showing flashes of brilliance, or it too some time to develop and now younger players are getting more opportunities where vets used to take up spots! Crazy!
definitely did not expect to see pinoy step in this video, but I am glad that it is being recognized now, as someone who grew up watching that move be done, and used that move too! great video as always man!
Nice! Shout out to you guys for recognizing the PINOY STEP! Haha! Where did you get that? Filipinos have been Eurostepping since the 1970s lol. We were amused seeing it done in the 2000s.
I yearned so much in 2007-2008 for the information that is now freely available. I'm mainly talking about individual training programs. What I lacked the most was individual training programs for everything. Physical health (talk about information and context as a whole), athleticism, dribbling, running, jumping. Most of the rest(playmaking) could be covered by a good team coach, +taking responsibility during the game, +analyzing the situation on the field in each situation, and analyzing afterwards. Yes, analysis of team moments in the attack now also gives a boost and understanding. But before, many of these things could be understood by oneself + this imposed the need for teamwork, and therefore constant partners on the field.постійних партнерів на полі.
I think that is important to say that not all young players are using the information available and better training workouts. Many young athletes are overwhelmed with the information and don't know what is helpful and what is not; or they just neglect completely how the game and practice has evolved. So, yes, the one that are listening to coaching staff and navigating the overflow of information are better; but you also have the stubborn ones that refuse to learn new ways or can't comprehend the complexity of the game and are left behind
New rookies evolving the traits to stay on nba courts is crazy, them having to bring immediate defensive IQ and three point shooting is crazy. Look at some of the other rookies this class that lack those two traits, they're in the g-league already. And the offensive development looks futuristic, these players don't know a world without zero-steps, know the foul game in and out (on offense), know how to attack off the catch, not to mention the level of athleticism on display by everyone, especially the shorter players.
I think a major reason a lot of these young players are able to demonstrate such skill and basketball IQ is because modern basketball emphasizes versatility so much more than previous decades. Instead of having shooting and rim running specialists, players have the ability to do it all so they have so many more options. The increase in options leaves room for skill expression that previous generations of players may not have had. Guys in the past that were 3 point specialists may have been able to pull off these great attacking moves, but that wasn’t their purpose on the floor. These rookies are creating opportunities to do a little bit of everything and it makes it so fun to watch.
Even back 30 years ago the 3-point specialist was an accessory to an established offense built inside out by bigs. Unless they were 'pure' shooters who can move off ball, create space and pass. The spacing now favors the shooting and playmaking to create offensive openings to stress defenses. The rookies who are equipped to play 'organized ball' are going to get a running start because of their skillsets and especially with established teammates that compliment their skills.
Offense always had the advantage especially in the NBA. Moreso the defenses are taking a beating having to defend lateral actions constantly. Sure you think of assembling a squad of athletes that can be super sound defensively. But are they good enough offensively to hang in the playoffs with the Nuggets? Who had the size, shooting and playmaking advantage on offense.
Not having watched the video yet, it might really be a combo of not only having an easier time watching basketball games, but also growing up playing 2k. Pretty sure Tyrese Haliburton said something about playmaking while playing 2k advancing his bbiq, and it makes sense.
Honestly, I’ve been playing 2K literally since day 1 (11-11-99), and the game has literally changed how I think, watch, and (when I was younger) played basketball. Things like sealing guard defenders on a PnR, reading cuts, etc, those are things I was doing before I even knew I was doing them, as were a lot of better basketball players. You see it online, too; Kobe Ball just doesn’t fly anymore, you need to react. It’s the same way Madden has revolutionized how time management and scouting happens in the actual NFL.
With more people playing and studying more, the new peak is people with elite physical gifts AND sufficient cognitive function to make decisions on the fly AND executive function to apply themselves AND a supportive environment for their development so they can learn. Basically, a factory for the production of baby LeBrons.
LMAO tell that to Bruno Caboclo and his believers. There will always be guys who may not be super athletic but get the game faster and have other traits that make them valuable. Also tell that to Killian Hayes whose still left sucking his thumb.
At this point the NBA is by far the hardest league to make it into out of the major sports leagues in NA. NFL all you have to compete against is against other Americans in a most probably shrinking pool of players. Then in hockey you're really only competing against NA and Scandinavia + Russia for the most part. Then in baseball you're competing against South Korea, Japan, Latin America and NA. And finally in basketball you're competing against the globe. You're competing against practically all of Europe, parts of South America, Asia, NA and some parts of Africa. The pool of talent to choose from is insane nowadays in the NBA.
I feel like everybody’s game is well rounded now a days, to fit the spacing of todays game. I think people are spotting these guys out way earlier now a days, all over the world. Not just dudes from NCAA/America.
Some programs who recruited early from overseas developed a long term relationship for long term recruitment. One was Australia's basketball talents from AIS and St Mary's College in CA. Which helped prep AUS prospects like Patty Mills, Matt Dellavadova and Jock Landale for the pros. Then you have programs like Ujiri's Giants of Africa where they develop and find African basketball prospects to get a pipeline of athletes who want to learn more by getting to a div1 program and ultimately NBA or even a specific G League team to train up.
I've been saying this for years, and the criticism JJ got for a similar comment makes me swallow it some, but I 100% believe it; The floor of the NBA is so damn high compared to what it was. Every player you see on the floor can likely be a team leader if they were given the green light. I would say up until the early 90s, there are 100% players on the floor who could only do one thing. Today's 3 and D player, which is pretty much the lowest common denominator of "role player" is probably a better playmaker than most of your favorite 80s team's players. JJ was right to say that 60s player faced firemen and janitors, but his perspective is off. I can walk into a business now and find accountants who are in old NBA shape and who could be taught to be a role player on those old teams. Current NBA player show skills far in excess of what we've seen before.
Whichever game you choose to engage in, you'll likely come across the dichotomy between positional play and tactical play. You'll find it in differents shapes and forms, in disciplines as dissimilar as basketball and chess. We all know about the 5 fundamental basketball positions. On the other side of the equation, tactics present themselves in the form of Xs and Os, the pick and roll being basketball's tactical bread-and-butter. That's the most blatant example of a tactic being set, but tactics can be far less patent, adapting to what the situation calls for, making use of the underlying concepts of basketball. As a result, the deeper you dig into a tactic's outcomes, the more it ends up blending in with basic play. In the same vein, positional basketball capitalises on the capabilities of the players to set up strategic schemes. In the end, it also turns into a battle of spacing, and not just 3-point shooting, but the use of space throughout the court permitted by the specialisation of the players into tactical roles. That's why I mentioned them being on opposites side of the equation: positional and tactical play are one and the same, they play into each other because they are just lines drawn on what would otherwise be known simply as good play. Now then, the rules (and enforcement of said rules) throw a wrench into where said lines are traced. Coaches and players will find the tactical exploits which allow them to stay on top of the metagame, and often the ruleset changes to make room for or discourage certain styles of play (at times not for the sake of the competitive integrity and balance of the game, but for the perceived enjoyment of spectators). Sometimes, these will be minor, therefore favouring fundamentally-sound basketball. Others, coaches will have players running around setting sure-fire plays like there's no tomorrow. In either case, young players will be moulded to fit their times. Artworks don't age. Still, every work is a product of their time. It's no different for basketball players (at least if you count on metagames reaching their sweet spot before they're forcefully ruled out, which you truly never can). What you lack says as much about you as what you focus on, it's just a matter of opportunity cost, and it's the metagame (defined by its rules) that determines the value of each merit.
I think in Lukas case it's important to notice, that he wasn't a "Classic" Rookie. He had basically won almost everything outside the NBA in his young age. He was way more experienced than College guys
He may not be the classic top pick super athlete like the guy drafted first in Doncic's class. But his overall skillset, vision, touch and his deep 'bag' is a far outlier even for college players and your average top drafted rookie prospect. Hell there aren't many players (let alone big wings) whose got a secure handle dribbling in close quarters even before he came to the league. Also helped he's 6'7" and 230 lbs so his ability to see the floor even in half court is never a concern.
Genuinely surprised that the 'pinoy step' had a shoutout. It emerged in tiktoks and Instagram reels now as an actual term. Problem is no Pinoy had yet to be in the NBA
The kids who grew up watching the 2015-2018 warriors are finally making their way into the league. The affects of the Curry style of play is starting to show themselves lol
Personally, I just think they have a different skill set than before. For example, I watch a lot of old school bar and what I notice is that all of those dudes are legit unstoppable in the post. They literally shoot over three or four guys on top of them and make them over 50%. Guys like James Worthy, Kevin McHale, Alex English if you watch them those dudes were literally unstoppable. Even guys like Adrian Dantley. It's kind of insane. So I think we're comparing oranges and apples when we compare today's style to before because they just had a different kind of mastery of the game
@@amai-w8fTrue. Rule changes and playstyle changes opened the door to skills that simply could not be deployed legally or successfully in previous eras of the NBA.
Thing is he’s using stats and game tape while ur just using what you’ve seen from a few games. James worthy was t shooting 50% on post shots when there’s 4 people right there at em
@@Lucas-ElijahSadiq Or at the very least having talents to play set styles and being able to counter it if teams wanted to 'copy' it. The Bulls in the 98 Finals played 'small ball' lineups to counter the Jazz screen game attempts and they def could. The Jazz don't have the guys to do the same thing to play the Bulls that way on defense.
I definitely agree on the specific crop of rookies that benefit from how NBA basketball is played and trained up now. NBA decades ago with their brand power showed the world how 'their' basketball was played. More athletes from the globe have come to the NBA and helped evolve the game as well. Refs calling also adapted as well. They play looser now on gather step calls due the precedence you mentioned. I feel moving screens are called less with how screen heavy the offenses are now. The 'older' rookies today also come prepared in situations that are more familiar with their role/skillsets and how they refined it playing in their respective programs. Nuggets/Heat/Warriors pick in positions where they care more about team fit/skillset because they have established athlete/s.
A dwarf on a giant’s shoulder sees further of the two. It’s important to remember that when comparing modern times to the past, not just in basketball but in life!
There's also more talent and skill in the league than before. 20-30 years ago, you could probably get on the all-star team if you averaged 15 ppg and some other stats, even as a rookie. Now, you don't have a shot of making it as an all-star unless you average at least 20 ppg, more likely closer to 25 ppg, and some other stats. It's harder for rookies to burst onto the scene and average 25 ppg than it is to average 15 ppg. There's only so many spots on an all-star roster and the current stars of the league aren't going to play like shit to let the rookies make the team.
even accounting for rule changes it's way harder to play defense when players all over the court can shoot and are shooting at higher volume and you pretty much can't be a one-dimensional player that can't put the ball on the floor/pass or play D unless you're an all-star caliber player like Gobert. the "true" point guard, undersized PF that can't shoot and the bigs who camp in the paint have been phased out@@AX5Terminator
All Star selection is a wack metric to compare the quality of players even back then. Dennis Johnson never broke over 20ppg but has 5 AS selections. Tom Chambers whose a helluva athlete and scored over 25ppg twice to lead his team in points per game only has 4 AS selections. Adrian Dantley who led the league in scoring *twice* and scored at least 30ppg in four seasons has only 6 AS selections. Meanwhile Mo Williams had a great 3 point shooting season in 08-09 and got his only AS selection.
I try explaining why the league is so much more talented now than pre 2000 and my friends usually don't get it. In say 1995 there were 30 teams and 450 permanent roster spots in the NBA. Fast forward to today and we have 30 teams and 450 permanent roster spots. But in the meantime we've see players like Jordan, AI, Lebron, Wade, Melo, KD, Curry, Duncan etc and the list goes on and on. The game has grown exponentially both on the court and more importantly off the court. Lets just say hypothetically in 1995 there were 10 million kids playing high school ball globally. Today there could be ten times that amount. So there are more kids playing worldwide and a whole bunch of new skills have been innovated so obviously there are way more highly skilled players. The amount of people allowed into the league is the same but the queue to get in is maybe 50x larger with more starter level players, more second option level players, third options and so on. But there aren't enough spots in the league so now a first option is obviously still the a first option, but there are so many rookies of that caliber coming in that most of them become second or even third options and that trickles down to the point where the forth or firth options or even guys off the bench today have as much talent as a second of third option would have had in the 90's.
"These moves weren't legal in the 20th century" ... THANK YOU!!!! Today's game is a great game but it can't be compared to yesterday because they don't play by the rules today. Or, I should say they play by a different set of rules. It's fun, but it absolutely not the same. If I ever coach again I'm going to teach the kids to carry, travel, and to knock their defender out of legal guarding position, because... if I don't, they will be at a disadvantage.
Also I feel some old players/legends would be talented enough to integrate some of those tricks to their game IF the rules let them or they could play now. But I feel the context folks miss is as much as new players get to play with what is optimal now, the older rooks in the 80s/90s were doing the same given what the game was then.
I am sure they were talented enough but imo the biggest difference isnt the rules or the talent but as they point out in the video the extreme training from an early age. It is so much more focused and intentional than just 30 years ago.
@@hansmeyer1991 The training is a big difference, but I think the training that matters most is what they get as adults not what they get as small kids. Having access to an elite level "skills trainer" makes a ton of difference. Most people operating on lower levels are teaching things that will need to be abandoned in elite play. If they teach skills at all. In most situations there is only time to teach the team offense and defense.
I was just thinking of Thinking the other day. Do you know of the Aussie player on MJ's team that many forget about? Does he rate high in any of your charts.
I wonder if part of the additional value is driven by the salary cap. Much has been made about the salary cap squeezing how the mid-tier vet who is not an all star but not an MLE player. I wonder if teams are asking more of rookies.
Depends on the prospect, their market and the cap available. I feel most teams in the last decade have been pretty good with their rookie deals. Even with how the Suns handled Ayton's perception of his own market value when his contract was up. At least if the player is priced right of his talent, he is still movable as an asset to upgrade or downgrade. There are few cases where the young player was a 'late' bloomer but their value went sky high for their new team on a new contract.
There's just so much nuance in basketball that "casuals" or the "untrained eye" are most likely oblivious to with that being said can you slowly start shedding more light onto those "niche" topics, especially with basketball content creators treating the defensive side of the ball as unexplored areas
8:50 Which is funny, other sports are used to that, in soccer teams have special training gym and underage clubs for kids to not only built talent for them but sell or lend them as commodities. Pep, maybe the best coach ever, started training Barças kids team and he played for the official team before!!! With the stars (he latter went to coach).
8:57 "This is basically a carbon copy of a play you'll see if you tune into an NBA game today." he says as both the highschooler and the NBA player miss an open three
The multiple switches between Jaime and Butler clips looking almost identical was insane.
What's crazy is I had like 10 more plays but couldn't totally sidetrack the video with 3 minutes of "Jaime Butler Jr." highlights
@@ThinkingBasketballwell.... second channel?
@@cthulhudreams7578 we need rookie to star player comparisons!!! would love to see how good our rooks are right now.
yeah. so much travem
We really drafted our next Jimmy Butler for when he retires 😂
Rookies don't listen to music to lock in before games, they listen to the thinking basketball podcast
Nah they probably do both😂
I always felt the biggest difference between talent now and then is the sheer depth of the current Poole (lol) because the average bench player is much better than the ones of decades past. But that’s evolution and opening up the game worldwide so as time went on, it was kinda expected
Yes but oldheads won't admit that.
An “ok” player today is so much better than an “ok” player 40 years ago. My favorite thing to talk about is the borderline all-star role players today like Tyler Herro, 6man Lou Will, Malik Monk, Tobias Harris, those guys would be star players running their own teams back in the 80s and 90s, but today they’re 3rd or 4th options.
I love pissing oldheads off by pointing out that Klay Thompson, a career 2nd and 3rd option, is just as good if not better than Reggie Miller, who was considered a top star of his era. Their stats are so close it’s not even funny. (stats aren’t everything of course)
@@jamiegaskins3687 Those playerss you name arent ok players tho
@@jamiegaskins3687 now adays defense sucks and we had matchs on 100 points every week
average scoring output was the same as the Jordan Era it's just more three pointers and less shitty lays from plumber bots
I really wish every other sport had a quality channel like this one. I mean exactly like this, including Ben's narration.
The improvement on the narration over time is crazy
Football has brett kollman, baseball has Jomboy
@@agayactornamedmichaeldougl6289soccer has Pythagoras in Boots, the football purist, and anything written by the athletic
Brent is kinda like thinking basketball, and I love Jomboys, but comparing this channel to Jomboy is like comparing Breaking Bad to SNL. TB is about garnering unique insight from stats, game footage, etc. and Jomboys is more like a funny baseball news show with occasional play-by-play
@@caleb98963 watch his pitching breakdowns.. they're actually great, but I do agree, generally jomboys main strength his comedy
And that's just talking about the American player development program. Overseas, younger prospects learn how to play against professionals by playing against professionals. Luka and Wemby being NBA-ready almost immediately is a testament to that system.
A lot of the development in the game was imported from Europe. It took a while to adapt it to the NBA's rules but shooting bigs & spaced out, playmaking ball has been their modus operandi for decades.
@@KnoxWheelerJr I feel this observation is underrated. The NBA's brand globalization and real outreach started only around 30 or so years ago. So it took time for ideas to exchange on amateur levels and affect the NBA game kept evolving. The benefits definitely show up to the specific players highlighted by Ben who are older but stayed longer at the college levels to have more refined reps and organized team ball experience. Which easily carries over at the pro level earning more playing time because compared to other younger players, they see the game faster.
@allenross3050 so these Europeans would not dominate today? Luke is far more skilled than Bird lol
@allenross3050 European Busts still exist today and Bargani he was drafted in 2006, when Dirk, Parker, Ginobli, Gasol brothers, Vujacic, Kirilenko, Galinari were in the league. Just means those lottery busts were dratfed too high. Luol Deng was a lottery pick. Even today there are hardly any Euro lottery picks bar Luka and Wemby and they are exceptional. I don't get your point tbh it doesn't stand up to scrutiny
@allenross3050 There were Also a ton of College Basketball Busts Remember Adam Morrison and Anthony Bennett?
Spurs Built a Dynasty in the 2000s based around Duncan and 2 former Euroleague Players (Parker and Manu). Their rival in the West was also built around a Former Euroleague player (Dirk) and the Lakers had to trade for a European to compete (Gasol)
I think it has to do with the amount of films and breakdowns out for young athletes. We can learn more than ever from the greats at an early age
Yeah I think this is a huge part of it
Did I just see a ref yell “YES” as Blake Griffin hit the 360?
shit i was scrolling down for this and found it on the top comment
Can you blame him?
This was something i've been thinking for a while now. Glad that now I have an analysis about it from the GOAT of analytic-ball himself :D
Liar
@@beng4647 youll never know 🌚
Certain rookies have always made an impact wouldn't say theyre smarter. Magic won a chip rookie year out of position. The lack of legitimate defensive presence actoss the league is why we see so many young players with inflated offensive stats.
Pinoy Step mentioned!
Filipinos: Raaaaaaahh!! 🇵🇭🇵🇭🇵🇭🇵🇭😂😂
RAAAAHHH 🇵🇭🇵🇭🇵🇭🇵🇭
Summoning complete
Me when my nationality gets mentioned on UA-cam = ☠️
Euro step you mean lol
@@bswill5077 did you watch the damn video
Ben Taylor thank you for growing my understanding of the game everyday . I am very grateful
Thanks for watching!
@@ThinkingBasketball thank you for always making great content . I wish I could have a conversation with you . Like via text or something your knowledge about the game is so valuable 😭😭. Peak ball knowledge 🔥
Thank you for giving CPJ love. Not many people have seen the craftiness he plays with.
for real, I know he's an older rookie but he has crazy craft and patience for an undrafted guy on a two-way
Fresh Thinking Basketball, nothing better.
Another point that I feel was a little brushed over, coming in so early compared to rookies of the past just gives so much more experience. The metrics you used were measured by age, so a 24 year old player nowadays has 3-5 seasons of NBA runs where a rookie from an older genereration would only have 1-3. Makes all the difference imo.
Ben what a fantastic video! I love how you first explain from a zoomed out perspective over decades and then dive into the details. I think Rick torbetts read and react system has played a tremendous role in the development of the new generation. Thanks for sharing this masterpiece!
This is the type of content i love seeing on this channel it definitely feels like bench players in todays nba so incredibly skilled
Awesome. Not taking stats on face value but drilling into them and combining them with other stats… brilliant analysis as always.
I am a sports therapist that also played pro basketball and I have been saying this for years. Salient points from the Thinking Basketball squad.
I'm a filipino. And I'm proud that one of our famous "Pinoy Step" has been part of today's league, where you fake the shot at the first step. 😅
This video is one of the most amazing, insightful and entertaining basketball-realted videos i have ever seen. Your channel is different to any other, i love you analysis so much! keeo uo the amazing work
That rookie impact low point had to be when Michael Carter Williams won roty
90s and 2000s players grew up watching ball, 2010s players grew up with analytics of ball and 2020s grew up with metanalitics of ball.
Please do a video on Vince Williams, GG Jackson, and how the Grizzlies are actually still trying to win despite having a hospital worth of players
Facts, a literal study on how teams can actually win if they want to
I think that shows Taylor Jenkins is a great coach
awesome analysis as always.
Thanks!
Thank you thinking basketball for mentioning Pinoy Step. More power
you're seeing this clear as day especially in today's game, the explosion of instant young role players in a way that I just haven't seen before. usually you were either showing flashes of brilliance, or it too some time to develop and now younger players are getting more opportunities where vets used to take up spots! Crazy!
definitely did not expect to see pinoy step in this video, but I am glad that it is being recognized now, as someone who grew up watching that move be done, and used that move too!
great video as always man!
Nice! Shout out to you guys for recognizing the PINOY STEP! Haha! Where did you get that? Filipinos have been Eurostepping since the 1970s lol. We were amused seeing it done in the 2000s.
Not showing Wembenyama as rookies with impact made me nervous
He's in the superstar class of rookies.
Incredibly accurate and entertaining analysis!
I yearned so much in 2007-2008 for the information that is now freely available. I'm mainly talking about individual training programs. What I lacked the most was individual training programs for everything. Physical health (talk about information and context as a whole), athleticism, dribbling, running, jumping. Most of the rest(playmaking) could be covered by a good team coach, +taking responsibility during the game, +analyzing the situation on the field in each situation, and analyzing afterwards. Yes, analysis of team moments in the attack now also gives a boost and understanding. But before, many of these things could be understood by oneself + this imposed the need for teamwork, and therefore constant partners on the field.постійних партнерів на полі.
I think that is important to say that not all young players are using the information available and better training workouts.
Many young athletes are overwhelmed with the information and don't know what is helpful and what is not; or they just neglect completely how the game and practice has evolved.
So, yes, the one that are listening to coaching staff and navigating the overflow of information are better; but you also have the stubborn ones that refuse to learn new ways or can't comprehend the complexity of the game and are left behind
Is there a thinking hockey channel as good as Thinking Basketball? Asking for a friend!
wow. love this content, what a channel, insane channel. love the channel who breaking down, attention of the detail, awesome Ben
from Indonesian💪💪💪
as a Pinoy or Filipino. that pinoy step is literally a blueprint for one of our arsenal layup sets just to put through bigman on court.
This was incredibly well done, as always!
New rookies evolving the traits to stay on nba courts is crazy, them having to bring immediate defensive IQ and three point shooting is crazy. Look at some of the other rookies this class that lack those two traits, they're in the g-league already. And the offensive development looks futuristic, these players don't know a world without zero-steps, know the foul game in and out (on offense), know how to attack off the catch, not to mention the level of athleticism on display by everyone, especially the shorter players.
One of your best videos yet, Ben. Good stuff
Jump Stop with an Up and Under was my bread and butter in pickup games 💯
I think a major reason a lot of these young players are able to demonstrate such skill and basketball IQ is because modern basketball emphasizes versatility so much more than previous decades. Instead of having shooting and rim running specialists, players have the ability to do it all so they have so many more options. The increase in options leaves room for skill expression that previous generations of players may not have had. Guys in the past that were 3 point specialists may have been able to pull off these great attacking moves, but that wasn’t their purpose on the floor. These rookies are creating opportunities to do a little bit of everything and it makes it so fun to watch.
Even back 30 years ago the 3-point specialist was an accessory to an established offense built inside out by bigs. Unless they were 'pure' shooters who can move off ball, create space and pass. The spacing now favors the shooting and playmaking to create offensive openings to stress defenses. The rookies who are equipped to play 'organized ball' are going to get a running start because of their skillsets and especially with established teammates that compliment their skills.
Craig Porter Jr rules!! He should be getting WAYYYY more minutes. It drives me crazy
Nice analysis. Great work!
not comment much but a subscriber that says well done.. Keep up., I do enjoy these clips.. best regards
At the end of the day this rookie draft class is going to end up one of the greatest of all time
You might be a little too optimistic lol
Calm down lil bro
@@amai-w8f 😂bruh I’m obviously joking foo
@@Hatedvarii no u weren’t . Don’t let them change ur mind because your right this is a great rookie class from top to bottom
@@yallugly4317how so?
7:43 Don MacLean shoutout! Let’s goooooo!!
best video ever u made me realize sm abt basketball nba
People will watch this and then proclaim the rise in offense is simply players not trying on the other end
Offense always had the advantage especially in the NBA. Moreso the defenses are taking a beating having to defend lateral actions constantly. Sure you think of assembling a squad of athletes that can be super sound defensively. But are they good enough offensively to hang in the playoffs with the Nuggets? Who had the size, shooting and playmaking advantage on offense.
This is such a great channel
Not having watched the video yet, it might really be a combo of not only having an easier time watching basketball games, but also growing up playing 2k. Pretty sure Tyrese Haliburton said something about playmaking while playing 2k advancing his bbiq, and it makes sense.
Yup! I wonder how big of a factor that is.
Exactly even players who are play finishers can play a game like 2k to see things from many different perspectives.
Honestly, I’ve been playing 2K literally since day 1 (11-11-99), and the game has literally changed how I think, watch, and (when I was younger) played basketball. Things like sealing guard defenders on a PnR, reading cuts, etc, those are things I was doing before I even knew I was doing them, as were a lot of better basketball players. You see it online, too; Kobe Ball just doesn’t fly anymore, you need to react.
It’s the same way Madden has revolutionized how time management and scouting happens in the actual NFL.
I’m all for the talent evolving to be better, but we need to bring back physical defense and get rid of the the defensive 3 in the key
you always come with the best subects ! 🔥
Todays athletes are always smarter than yesterdays. How would they get worse?
To me, it's more about the game being more cerebral / read-and-react.
Bro this is happening because of YOU!!!!!!
EVERY COACH AT EVERY LEVEL now watches Thinking basketball!
This is the result!!!!
With more people playing and studying more, the new peak is people with elite physical gifts AND sufficient cognitive function to make decisions on the fly AND executive function to apply themselves AND a supportive environment for their development so they can learn. Basically, a factory for the production of baby LeBrons.
LMAO tell that to Bruno Caboclo and his believers. There will always be guys who may not be super athletic but get the game faster and have other traits that make them valuable. Also tell that to Killian Hayes whose still left sucking his thumb.
At this point the NBA is by far the hardest league to make it into out of the major sports leagues in NA. NFL all you have to compete against is against other Americans in a most probably shrinking pool of players. Then in hockey you're really only competing against NA and Scandinavia + Russia for the most part. Then in baseball you're competing against South Korea, Japan, Latin America and NA. And finally in basketball you're competing against the globe. You're competing against practically all of Europe, parts of South America, Asia, NA and some parts of Africa. The pool of talent to choose from is insane nowadays in the NBA.
Talkin bout Podziemski feels great because hes the Warriors future
As a Filipino, the "Pinoy Step" being acknowledged was super 🔥! Subscribed!
I feel like everybody’s game is well rounded now a days, to fit the spacing of todays game. I think people are spotting these guys out way earlier now a days, all over the world. Not just dudes from NCAA/America.
Some programs who recruited early from overseas developed a long term relationship for long term recruitment. One was Australia's basketball talents from AIS and St Mary's College in CA. Which helped prep AUS prospects like Patty Mills, Matt Dellavadova and Jock Landale for the pros. Then you have programs like Ujiri's Giants of Africa where they develop and find African basketball prospects to get a pipeline of athletes who want to learn more by getting to a div1 program and ultimately NBA or even a specific G League team to train up.
we have been summoned 😂 handa, awit!
I've been saying this for years, and the criticism JJ got for a similar comment makes me swallow it some, but I 100% believe it;
The floor of the NBA is so damn high compared to what it was. Every player you see on the floor can likely be a team leader if they were given the green light. I would say up until the early 90s, there are 100% players on the floor who could only do one thing. Today's 3 and D player, which is pretty much the lowest common denominator of "role player" is probably a better playmaker than most of your favorite 80s team's players. JJ was right to say that 60s player faced firemen and janitors, but his perspective is off. I can walk into a business now and find accountants who are in old NBA shape and who could be taught to be a role player on those old teams. Current NBA player show skills far in excess of what we've seen before.
Whichever game you choose to engage in, you'll likely come across the dichotomy between positional play and tactical play. You'll find it in differents shapes and forms, in disciplines as dissimilar as basketball and chess.
We all know about the 5 fundamental basketball positions. On the other side of the equation, tactics present themselves in the form of Xs and Os, the pick and roll being basketball's tactical bread-and-butter. That's the most blatant example of a tactic being set, but tactics can be far less patent, adapting to what the situation calls for, making use of the underlying concepts of basketball. As a result, the deeper you dig into a tactic's outcomes, the more it ends up blending in with basic play. In the same vein, positional basketball capitalises on the capabilities of the players to set up strategic schemes. In the end, it also turns into a battle of spacing, and not just 3-point shooting, but the use of space throughout the court permitted by the specialisation of the players into tactical roles. That's why I mentioned them being on opposites side of the equation: positional and tactical play are one and the same, they play into each other because they are just lines drawn on what would otherwise be known simply as good play.
Now then, the rules (and enforcement of said rules) throw a wrench into where said lines are traced. Coaches and players will find the tactical exploits which allow them to stay on top of the metagame, and often the ruleset changes to make room for or discourage certain styles of play (at times not for the sake of the competitive integrity and balance of the game, but for the perceived enjoyment of spectators). Sometimes, these will be minor, therefore favouring fundamentally-sound basketball. Others, coaches will have players running around setting sure-fire plays like there's no tomorrow. In either case, young players will be moulded to fit their times. Artworks don't age. Still, every work is a product of their time. It's no different for basketball players (at least if you count on metagames reaching their sweet spot before they're forcefully ruled out, which you truly never can). What you lack says as much about you as what you focus on, it's just a matter of opportunity cost, and it's the metagame (defined by its rules) that determines the value of each merit.
As a Filipino citizen, it's nice to hear that the "Pinoy step" is being recognized internationally ♥💛💙
6:45 MORE JAIME VIDS PLZ🙏🏾🙏🏾
I think in Lukas case it's important to notice, that he wasn't a "Classic" Rookie. He had basically won almost everything outside the NBA in his young age. He was way more experienced than College guys
He may not be the classic top pick super athlete like the guy drafted first in Doncic's class. But his overall skillset, vision, touch and his deep 'bag' is a far outlier even for college players and your average top drafted rookie prospect. Hell there aren't many players (let alone big wings) whose got a secure handle dribbling in close quarters even before he came to the league. Also helped he's 6'7" and 230 lbs so his ability to see the floor even in half court is never a concern.
once again, ben taylor adds to his HOF resume
never thought I would ever hear pinoy step in a Thinking Basketball video lol
Genuinely surprised that the 'pinoy step' had a shoutout. It emerged in tiktoks and Instagram reels now as an actual term.
Problem is no Pinoy had yet to be in the NBA
The kids who grew up watching the 2015-2018 warriors are finally making their way into the league. The affects of the Curry style of play is starting to show themselves lol
Personally, I just think they have a different skill set than before. For example, I watch a lot of old school bar and what I notice is that all of those dudes are legit unstoppable in the post. They literally shoot over three or four guys on top of them and make them over 50%. Guys like James Worthy, Kevin McHale, Alex English if you watch them those dudes were literally unstoppable. Even guys like Adrian Dantley. It's kind of insane. So I think we're comparing oranges and apples when we compare today's style to before because they just had a different kind of mastery of the game
They don't simply have a different skillset, they have more skill period. You need to do much more than rookies had to in the past.
@@amai-w8fTrue. Rule changes and playstyle changes opened the door to skills that simply could not be deployed legally or successfully in previous eras of the NBA.
Thing is he’s using stats and game tape while ur just using what you’ve seen from a few games. James worthy was t shooting 50% on post shots when there’s 4 people right there at em
@@Lucas-ElijahSadiq Or at the very least having talents to play set styles and being able to counter it if teams wanted to 'copy' it. The Bulls in the 98 Finals played 'small ball' lineups to counter the Jazz screen game attempts and they def could. The Jazz don't have the guys to do the same thing to play the Bulls that way on defense.
Tim Duncan was all nba first team as a rookie??! 😮😮
I definitely agree on the specific crop of rookies that benefit from how NBA basketball is played and trained up now. NBA decades ago with their brand power showed the world how 'their' basketball was played. More athletes from the globe have come to the NBA and helped evolve the game as well. Refs calling also adapted as well. They play looser now on gather step calls due the precedence you mentioned. I feel moving screens are called less with how screen heavy the offenses are now. The 'older' rookies today also come prepared in situations that are more familiar with their role/skillsets and how they refined it playing in their respective programs. Nuggets/Heat/Warriors pick in positions where they care more about team fit/skillset because they have established athlete/s.
My eyes opened wide when I heard the Pinoy Step. Filipinos use this move way back. Lets go Philippines 🇵🇭🇵🇭🇵🇭
A dwarf on a giant’s shoulder sees further of the two. It’s important to remember that when comparing modern times to the past, not just in basketball but in life!
the 1-footed layup is called a 'goofy layup/goofy lay' and/or 'wrong footed layup/ wrong footed lay'
Did not expect the pinoy step being mentioned here
I love how almost half of the highlights shown were of Jaime. He's such a baller. Smart, mature, patient, and an all-around consistent player.
Where's the top ten players pod/vid? I need that breakdown.
Can you make a video on how players get buy defenders
The game is in a great place.
There's also more talent and skill in the league than before. 20-30 years ago, you could probably get on the all-star team if you averaged 15 ppg and some other stats, even as a rookie. Now, you don't have a shot of making it as an all-star unless you average at least 20 ppg, more likely closer to 25 ppg, and some other stats. It's harder for rookies to burst onto the scene and average 25 ppg than it is to average 15 ppg. There's only so many spots on an all-star roster and the current stars of the league aren't going to play like shit to let the rookies make the team.
You have to account for Stat inflation as defense AND offense was officiated and played differently.
even accounting for rule changes it's way harder to play defense when players all over the court can shoot and are shooting at higher volume and you pretty much can't be a one-dimensional player that can't put the ball on the floor/pass or play D unless you're an all-star caliber player like Gobert. the "true" point guard, undersized PF that can't shoot and the bigs who camp in the paint have been phased out@@AX5Terminator
All Star selection is a wack metric to compare the quality of players even back then. Dennis Johnson never broke over 20ppg but has 5 AS selections. Tom Chambers whose a helluva athlete and scored over 25ppg twice to lead his team in points per game only has 4 AS selections. Adrian Dantley who led the league in scoring *twice* and scored at least 30ppg in four seasons has only 6 AS selections. Meanwhile Mo Williams had a great 3 point shooting season in 08-09 and got his only AS selection.
Its a combination of "skill" and the change in officiating. For example step back 3 pointers of today would be called traveling everytime back then.
you can tell already that Jaquez is the model Miami Heat player. they will do anything to keep him.
I try explaining why the league is so much more talented now than pre 2000 and my friends usually don't get it. In say 1995 there were 30 teams and 450 permanent roster spots in the NBA. Fast forward to today and we have 30 teams and 450 permanent roster spots. But in the meantime we've see players like Jordan, AI, Lebron, Wade, Melo, KD, Curry, Duncan etc and the list goes on and on. The game has grown exponentially both on the court and more importantly off the court. Lets just say hypothetically in 1995 there were 10 million kids playing high school ball globally. Today there could be ten times that amount. So there are more kids playing worldwide and a whole bunch of new skills have been innovated so obviously there are way more highly skilled players. The amount of people allowed into the league is the same but the queue to get in is maybe 50x larger with more starter level players, more second option level players, third options and so on. But there aren't enough spots in the league so now a first option is obviously still the a first option, but there are so many rookies of that caliber coming in that most of them become second or even third options and that trickles down to the point where the forth or firth options or even guys off the bench today have as much talent as a second of third option would have had in the 90's.
Peyton Watson shoutout in a Thinking Basketball video my life is complete
great track 👌
That 'Pinoy step' 🔥
@3:02 gahdamn ben u slipped this filthy poster in here so casually. thought i watched that clippers game. dnt remember this
Still waiting for that LeBron historic defense breakdown
"These moves weren't legal in the 20th century" ... THANK YOU!!!! Today's game is a great game but it can't be compared to yesterday because they don't play by the rules today. Or, I should say they play by a different set of rules. It's fun, but it absolutely not the same. If I ever coach again I'm going to teach the kids to carry, travel, and to knock their defender out of legal guarding position, because... if I don't, they will be at a disadvantage.
Also I feel some old players/legends would be talented enough to integrate some of those tricks to their game IF the rules let them or they could play now. But I feel the context folks miss is as much as new players get to play with what is optimal now, the older rooks in the 80s/90s were doing the same given what the game was then.
I am sure they were talented enough but imo the biggest difference isnt the rules or the talent but as they point out in the video the extreme training from an early age. It is so much more focused and intentional than just 30 years ago.
@@hansmeyer1991 The training is a big difference, but I think the training that matters most is what they get as adults not what they get as small kids. Having access to an elite level "skills trainer" makes a ton of difference. Most people operating on lower levels are teaching things that will need to be abandoned in elite play. If they teach skills at all. In most situations there is only time to teach the team offense and defense.
5:45 Really, PINOY Step? ♥️🇵🇭
i really do think that the impact of luka doncic slow game and iq had a huge impact for his generation and the next.
New Generation 💯
Thinking basketball is great
I was just thinking of Thinking the other day. Do you know of the Aussie player on MJ's team that many forget about? Does he rate high in any of your charts.
Classy thumbnail
I wonder if part of the additional value is driven by the salary cap. Much has been made about the salary cap squeezing how the mid-tier vet who is not an all star but not an MLE player. I wonder if teams are asking more of rookies.
Depends on the prospect, their market and the cap available. I feel most teams in the last decade have been pretty good with their rookie deals. Even with how the Suns handled Ayton's perception of his own market value when his contract was up. At least if the player is priced right of his talent, he is still movable as an asset to upgrade or downgrade. There are few cases where the young player was a 'late' bloomer but their value went sky high for their new team on a new contract.
“Spaced-out Natives”, love it
There's just so much nuance in basketball that "casuals" or the "untrained eye" are most likely oblivious to with that being said can you slowly start shedding more light onto those "niche" topics, especially with basketball content creators treating the defensive side of the ball as unexplored areas
Yes Peyton Watson made it to Thinking Basketball! That kid is the real deal
8:50 Which is funny, other sports are used to that, in soccer teams have special training gym and underage clubs for kids to not only built talent for them but sell or lend them as commodities. Pep, maybe the best coach ever, started training Barças kids team and he played for the official team before!!! With the stars (he latter went to coach).
Requesting once again for a pistons video
8:57 "This is basically a carbon copy of a play you'll see if you tune into an NBA game today." he says as both the highschooler and the NBA player miss an open three