Bmw dealership blunder? Incompetence?
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- Опубліковано 5 лют 2025
- In this video we diagnose a bmw that has been to a dealership and an independent workshop, Parts were changed but no fix!
Are we able to find the real cause?
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Dan have you considered selling your course on udemy so people can learn and be able to get into this type of business
There seems to be something wrong with the link preceded by "10% OFF EU purchase link", it brings up a 404 page.
Is this getting a follow up? Engine still not running?
@@fretlessfendercurios also if it gonna work again
Crank angle sensor?
Majority of dealerships are now staffed with replacement technicians, not analysts.
Replacement specialists, not technicians
Basically m8 you aren't given any time to diagnosis problem properly because of bullshit times that your given to diagnosis a fault 1/2hr normal that's all warranty will pay you that's why you go to a tsb if it say change a part then you do it because you will get paid for fitting that, I agree it a shit show blame dealership managers about bullshit ridiculous targets, the techs are sick of it, that's why most techs want to get out of this shit trade. Paying for paper pushers and bullshit mindless service adviser normal women that knows Jack shit but looks pleasing to the eye
@@volvo24091 You are correct. Not technicians....
Most dealerships are filed with staff that haven't been sent to the correct training.
I agree. It's just staff. But are
Parts changers. The more parts he or she changed it's ok. Charge it to the customer.
Another really interesting one. I didn't realise the HPFP had that kind of electronic control valve on it, but makes complete sense.
When the other garage says they checked the timing, I think they mean they checked the workshop clock and decided it was time to go home 😂
Yes, it was time to saddle up their horses. What a bunch of cowboys !
that is so low........lol
The dealership erased the codes, it wasn't showing a timing code = Timing is good..
Actually, they checked their clock and decided it was time to send it to Dan...
Ha ha ha😂😂😂😂
Dan is a master at his craft. Next level. Changing parts is a skill in itself, but truly diagnosing these vehicles is a “WNL” WHOLE ‘NOTHER LEVEL”. Dan is a blessing to his customers for sure.
So true. Well said.
That is basic diagnostics nothing special at all. How in the world a dealership in 2023 don't or cannot use a scope is mindboggling. I guess that is part of why mechanics all over the world get such a bad rep.
@@ralfsautomotive I went to a OE sponsored event at a nearby dealer about a year ago and during the class they were talking about cam/crank correlation. I answered that the easy way to confirm the problem was to use a scope and look at the waveforms. The instructor then said, We don't use scopes as they are not a reliable diagnostic tool !!!
Actually i would expect most technicians to find this fault
My guess is nobody else checked the timing. Maybe someone said they did but the fact was they didn't have a scope or they had one but nobody ever used it and they couldn't be bothered to take the cam cover off.
Hi Dan, thanx for your clear diagnosis on our car!! And also thanx for your quick reply on our additional questions. Clearly the BMW dealer (Dusseldorp Zwolle) needs to do some extra learning on diagnostics. Let’s hope the mechanical damage is not too severe. 🙏🏻
I certainly hope the damage not to bad🤞 Thank you very much!!
It must be really cool to watch a video on the diagnosis of your own vehicle. Fingers crossed for your engine.
@@slacko1971or scary😂
Please keep us updated on the cost if possible
Hope the engine was still under warranty 😬
I’ve seen plenty of vehicles over the last 24 years or so in the repair trade that have come from both Dealership and independent repair shops with a list of tests and parts replaced and charged for, what I’ve learned over the years and it’s served me well, and that’s disregard what tests have been done in till you’ve done them yourself. I once had a vehicle in and had to speak with the previous repairer about diagnostics that had been done and they couldn’t tell me about what they’d done because they didn’t actually do what had been charged for. It was my job then to convince the customer of my findings it was almost like they didn’t believe me because of what the previous repairer had told them.
If dealerships start recommending parts that aren't the issue. The parts should be free. A dealership should be the experts of their own cars. Not just another part replacer. I thought that was the reason they charge so much more?
Dealership don't repair the vehicle.
Don't blame the dealership.
The dealership..for instance Mercedes. They need to hire and train the Auto mechanics to do the jobs properly. This cost money and time to train.
Technician is an over used term. Just because you went to a school doesn't make you a Technician.
A technician means you are hired to diagnose anything that you are given. Do the job correctly.
Dealerships are becoming more and more of a joke these days
Most of dealerships don’t employ the right person to their company, most of them are employe people by hands to hands, or their relatives.
Is very ridiculous to hear such a thing that a dealership company that specialist on a particular car can’t diagnose a low fuel pump before they replace it.😮 before I watch the video I told someone near me that the problem of this car might be incorrect of timing.
To me, you're paying for the thing to be fixed. If the don't fix it, they shouldn't expect to be paid. Put back the old parts. Keep the new ones. Give me my broken car back for free.
@@2nickles647 Of course the dealership is to blame. They do the hiring, they should make sure the mechanics are properly trained.
I had no idea how fuel pressure was controlled with mechanical high pressure pumps. Thanks for the super informative video!
My pleasure
This is true here, but is not the case with all engines.
Nice video and great diagnosis. Wow, that dealership tech was terrible. When you start asking the customer what part they should replace next you know they have no idea what they are doing. Very sad.
Unfortunately true but also very uncommon
Customer should have replied : Replace the whole car !!!
BMW Germany should withdraw the rights to be a dealer from this dealer.
Great walk along, and great diagnostic steps! I have had plenty of N20 BMW's that do the same and never log timing codes, it always blows me away. P.S: I understand that you stated this is an interference motor.... but I can tell you now that from the sound of it and from the scope capture there is no valve damage. The fact that both valves are able to seal some psi to create the towers and then also have the ability to release psi, means they all can seal properly and relief properly, meaning all have good contact on their seats just all timed incorrectly, hence the same sounding cranking noise. If you were to do relative compression with no sync, you would get all even humps and not ever realize that the humps are the same but lower psi from being out of time. Again, even if you were to add an ignition sync (at least with the N20's) it some how on bmw's can still show up proper location on relative compression capture, so you would be lost thinking it is in time based off relative compression test and just not ever know that it is off time and the humps are just lower than desired compression humps. You would have to take a physical psi measurement to realize. Don't' ask me how I know, I learned the hard way on one lol. thanks for sharing as always. 👍👍
I've also learned the hard way😉 And i know from previous videos that people are going to ask in the comments about it being an interference engine so i put a text in the screen. And since i didn't diagnose any further i dont know if there is any damage for sure. Thanks for the Great comment and feedback 👍
@@Diagnosedan thanks, and thank you for sharing the great content as always👍
Loved it, the off shoots, directions you can get led down the rabbit holes via timing being off is very interesting to know,
A great refresher, as this stuff doesn't always pop up often,
Always greatfull for the greater learning,
And knowledge you teach us,
I remember the other bmw with disel injector effecting high fuel pressure side of things, in fuel rail, but the garage replaced low pressure fuel pump,
Cause and effect.
Thank you Dan, for sharing, if I could learn something like this everyday, very happy, cheers.
Get video Dan! Not many auto repair technicians holding jobs today have been formally trained to perform real analytical diagnostic procedures. They are simply parts-swappers - dealerships and indies alike. Perhaps this is the fault of particular dealerships or indies that do not require this skill level, or do not want to pay for it. I suspect the latter in most cases. It is refreshing to follow your approach to correctly diagnosing problems, seeking the root cause and not getting caught fixing symptoms. Your approach to diagnosing these problems reminds me a lot of how Ivan at Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics approaches similar issues. Thank you for taking the time to share these experiences with the community and hopefully some of those in the community that are professional wrenchers will take away some valuable lessons that they can apply. Cheers!
Thanks for the great comment!
Learned so much from your channel. I could watch your videos all day long, far best automotive diagnostic channel on yt.
Thanks!!!
having worked and managed in dealerships i can say that the incompetence is created by the continually increasing targets that are set and the need for "efficiency" over quality of service. Most of the techs want to do a good job but are just not given the chance
Or the training Sir
@@2nickles647 agreed
Owners/managers of dealerships are just greedy since they have huge spending habits that need to be fed by the service department. Poor mechanics or they are good ones being lazy to help the service writer build up the repair bills.
I have also seen that and thats definitely true in some cases!
Seems to be life les by greed and bean counters
Another great video Dan. Did anyone think that the spark was a bit intermittent? Would be interesting to see a waveform of primary ignition against crank sensor.
Yeah, I thought it was a bit erratic !
Yes, i noticed that. That is a clue the engine has problems to determine the timing of the spark
I saw that also.
In 30 years there's going to be no classic cars from this era. The manufacturers have made them too complicated for the average mechanic to fix economically. Most of the complexity has little or no function except to ensure the car ends up back at the dealer more often then it normally would need to.
I agree no classics are made at the moment
sorry for my English, you are one of the best technicians in the world for me, I think you suspect from the beginning that it was a bad timing chain. thanks for shared with us step by step.have a nice day😅
Thanks for your nice comment
The best Mechatronist I have seen so far!!! Once you see Dan at work, you fall in love and want a job like this. Well done Dan! Good luck!
Thanks!
Dans a genius
Thanks Dan for another educational diagnostic video. Lessons learned; validate problem, don't believe anything, good tools make a difference, BMW interference engines are expensive to replace.
ALL modern engines are interference engines (2000 onwards). Timing belts are cheaper, more fuel efficient but require replacement meaning it has to be accessible. So manufacturers use chains but try to make fuel efficient and lower cost by reducing plate thickness etc. To the point, I would rather have a belt engine than chain now, even PSA 1.2 wet belt. Chains are very expensive to replace and need replacing around the same time as a belt anyway.
@@khalidacosta7133not all!
Yes unfortunately for the customer not cheap 😬
Fascinating as always, thanks Dan. I'm no expert but the spark looked a bit inconsistent too.
Appreciate all the detailed explanations!! Yesterday a random lady at a shopping center asked me to help remove the ignition key from her hire car as it was "stuck". After trying to move the steering wheel to jiggle the steering lock the key was in fact locked in. She had stopped the car in drive, (automatic) so I shifted it to park and voila the key came out. I'm only used to old cars Lol. Mine is 2005.
OMG Dan. That's a big dealership fail. 100% sure there were "timing off" codes while the car was stranded! And the second shop made the same mistake too. Unbelievable!
And they know at the dealership the N13 does have timing chain problems. In my opinion, BMW 4 cylinders have been bad engines since 2004. It started at the N46. But the B48 and the B46( B58 minus 2 cylinders)are a lot better engines, finally.
And I know there were bugs in some ECU's. My 2009 335i has a permanent 2AAF shadow code. I replaced the low-pressure fuel pump, the low-pressure fuel sensor (with the upgraded one), and the fuel control unit in the tank too. The car runs great and the low-pressure fuel is okay, when monitoring on the PC, but still has the same shadow code. The car runs great, no problems.
Great job Dan. Have a good one and thanks for sharing. Dutch regards Nico.
Hi Nico, bmw should have stuck to those beautiful straight 6 cilinder engines. I know thats outdated with the current fuel prices and environmental rules here in Europe but those were great engines
Thanks for running through that diagnosis, definitely a gotcha on the fuel pressure thing. How that timing issue was missed by two shops is amazing, it cranks way too fast, I would have instantly done a compression check.
This is an amazing learning video and great for me as a Chrysler technician, they’re starting to use the new designed 2.0L turbo in a variety of vehicles, and the high pressure pump solenoid operates exactly like this! And by reading online, I’m hearing they’re becoming prone to having timing issues. So this is very good information and a great educational video. Thanks again Dan!
The fuel prices here in Europe are twice as high as in the states. Fuel prices are also getting higher in the States so you'll start to see more small engines. People want great fuel economy but they also want a powerful engine. The combi of a small engine with high power that still meets all environmental standards means the engine gets less reliable. You'll see the same problems in your workshop that we see here.
Great diagnosis, Dan! I liked the explanation of how timing can drastically affect GDI fuel pressure. Have seen this several times and it can definitely be confusing to pinpoint 😁
Have you tried the PHAD Pressure Transducer yet? Easier to use than Pico 😉
Hi Ivan the next time i'll need to do a pressure test i'll certainly use your sensor💪
At least in the Minis, the N13 vacuum pump can seize and snap the camshaft in half.
That's what I initially guessed was going on.
However I learnt something interesting I didn't know about high pressure pumps!
I guess the other shop checks timing by using 'the force'. Excellent work as always @Dan.
May the force be with them😂
Had knocking noise in the front of my f10 525d. After spending one hour looking for it, the technicians diagnosed a worn steering rack. 2.5k to replace it. I called it B.S. and got a second opinion at an independent, it was a loose control arm bolt. I would have found it myself if I had access to a lift. I wondered how many other customers were told similar bull and accepted it.
We'll never know😂
Another very tricky one Diagnosed with Champion diagnostic work. Well done Dan 🎉
Thanks Paul!
Wow! What an interesting and educational video. Who would have thought how interconnected all these systems have become! If I was starting out in auto-mechanics, I would hope I would have someone like Dan to teach me! 👏👏👏
You can always watch my videos 😂 Glad you like them!
For 20 years I was working as night security in the film business. One day there was an articulated lorry that would not start. The truck had been serviced the week before, including an oil change. When the mobile mechanic got there he found the trouble immediately. The oil level was down by 5 quarts. On that engine the fuel pump is mechanical and pressure from that moves the fuel into the engine.
Common rail diesels have worked this way for decades now.
Effectively an inlet metering valve.
Another great and educational video Dan ☺️👍
Thanks, yes its similar to diesels!
Well done, Dan! The engine seemed to be turning over to fast when you cranked it. That lead to me thinking it's "timing" in the old sense of valve vs piston positions. It's nice watching you use all the neat diagnostic tools to find the problem. Thanks for another interesting video.
my father is an electrical engineer, unfortunately he was never able to enthuse me for the profession, contrary to you Danny. what an incredible craftsman you are and how nice that you can tell it like this. keep it up! you have my respect.
for the timing being that far off it's weird because it sounded pretty good turning over.
You are a true master dan!
When it didn't start on the startpilot i was puzzled and didn't know what i would do next.
grtz
Yes the engine sounded pretty decent actually, that why i didn't expect a timing problem right away
Good job Dan. I think most 'new' mechanics just replace parts going by the diagnostic tool. When there are no / less fault codes, they are clueless and start guessing
An then you have a broken wire😂 you can replace every part but it won't solve your problem
Plain and simple, you Dan, are brilliant. Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to educate us. You rock!
Its a pleasure 😁
I'm not as educated with these types of engines and systems, I'm old school, BUT, I do understand what and how you diagnosed the faults. YOU my friend should be closing down the dealerships and put YOUR sign out the front. YOU are the trained mechanic that knows how to work on these types of faults, and engines. I followed your system of fault finding, as I was taught in the Army (RACT = Royal Australian Corps of Transport), respectively, not your time from, but mine was old school. As you also said, you MUST have Spark, Fuel, Timing, a motor should start if these 3 simple things are in order displaying, or testing to be GOOD.
Well done Dan, you are worth 100% against any workshop. Thanks for the upload video. Cheers Teddy.
You are without a doubt a very thorough and knowledgeable technician. Well versed in the systems and nuances of computer controlled interfaces in vehicles of today. Amazing to watch you work through a diagnosis. Your videography is spot on as is the scripting, editing and presentation of subject matter to your target audience. All around an amazing channel sir. A 1000 years ago I was a technician in a German automobile dealership and was pretty good at my trade, times changed and I moved to locomotives to fill the need to be covered in grease and grime for a living. Now I live vicariously through channels like this one to supply my need for slipped wrenches causing a visit to the ER for stitches.
Not that my subscribing makes a lot of difference to your already well tractioned channel, I have and will enjoy your overly energetic explanations of electro-mechanical interactions and diagnostic techniques.. :)
Thanks Dan for putting this out. Hopefully it will inspire more people to learn more about diagnostics on cars.
Lets hope so!
Wow, we really need more of these videos. What a craftmanship of Dan! Great job, keep it going, love your videos.
Thanks!
It appears that those very expensively trained mechanics are not doing their jobs correctly, well done Dan for sorting this one out for those guys.
That's part of the problem,dealerships don't want to invest in training and this is the result.
When I started at a main dealer as an apprentice (BMW incidentally) we had fantastic factory training, I was sent away to BMW for a week at a time several times a year and moved around the workshop between all the different techs. If there was ever any downtime we watched training videos and had to watch at least 1 a week. As the years went by the training got less and less with various manufactures. I now work roadside and the training is complete garbage,the only way I can possibly even stay remotely current is by doing my own research online, If I complain to management I am told "you don't need training your fix rate is good" which personally I think is a terrible way to look at things. I'm just glad I'm nearing the end of my working time because as cars get more and more complex and the dealers invest less and less this sort of issue is going to become more common. Great news for guys like Dan though.
Maybe it was the technicians first day😉
I was randomly checking info codes for my e65 730d and came across Dan's indepth knowledgeable knowledge where certain parties would miss diagnosis issues which leads for poor customer paying more and still having the problem, I found your video an eye opener, the go to guy mission impossible 👏
The only question I have is, how can you be such an amazing diagnostic technician, AND also be such a great presenter?
I could watch your videos all day long and would never get bored.
Thats great to hear, thank you!
I am wondering, why there was no error about bad timing. When the chain guide went off, it must have triggered an error. Do you think the dealership deleted it without paying attention?
The owner of the car showed me a scanraport from the roadside assistance and there were timing faults stored
That was a sneaky one! To me the engine sounded pretty good on cranking. Just goes to show never assume anything.
Yes to be honest it sounded pretty ok to me!
It sounded so good when cranked, that I am actually hopeful that it can be fixed rather than replaced.
Dan, that was a brilliant diagnosis. And you explained it fantastically as well. Bravo, sir!
Thank you very much
Thanks! you are the man!
Thank you Mike!!!
Great video.
I like to check monitor status in global 0bd2 as a first step to determine if codes were cleared.
I wonder if graphing the intake pressure sensor during cranking would give diagnostic direction?
Looking forward to watching this one. Greetings from Germany 👌. Afternote: i have now watched in full and have to say this is probably your best video ever. As with your last one on the Mercedes, i just cannot believe that a “Gold plated” BMW garage with all their diagnostic gear can’t work this out as you could.
Keep up the fantastic work please 🔥🔥🔥
Danke😁 Maybe it was the bmw techs first day
@@Diagnosedan 🤔😂. You are very generous! Maybe but i think we likely know it wasn’t 🙁. Out of interest, was the engine fixable or did it need replacing?
Nice work Dan.
Would a relative compression test also show a timing problem?
Yes
If you look at his compression test, you see the weird spike in the middle of nowhere and there’s also a big spike. If properly timed, you should only have one.
Man what a great job Dan! Really enjoyed this. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching my video and taking the time to leave a comment Eric its really appreciated
I'm a complete novice but once you showed spark, and introduced an alternate fuel source that resulted in the same "crank/no start", I figured the likely culprit was that it had jumped time. This is what happens with a lot of BMWs if one doesn't do proper scheduled maintenance. They could have avoided this if they had the timing system serviced at the proper interval(s). Those guides just aren't built to last over time. They may last well beyond the recommended service length but it's a big gamble to take. I suppose it's possible the timing system was serviced at proper intervals and the guide just failed anyway. Regardless, I hope for the owner's sake it didn't damage or destroy the engine internally. Nice video Dan, new sub! Greetings from the US!
Be interesting to look at service history/mileage. Does the timing chain get changed on those and was it overdue? Looks like the guide pad had been hit so often the bracket fatigued and broke allowing the chain to jump a few teeth, causing the timing errors!
perfect timing Dan! My only day off this week and I rlly needed something interesting to watch! Keep up the good work!
i dont have day off but now im
on lunch time and great thing to watch 😊
The timing wasn't perfect though, that was the problem. 😀
@@Stambo59 bahahah for the vehicle owner and his engine, definetly not :P
Yes i exactly timed it on your day off🤣
If Dan worked for a manufacturer they would have ZERO lemon law buybacks. They would call him The Wolf, because he solves problems.
Wolfes solve problems?
@@moestrei It's a reference to Pulp Fiction. Harvey Keitel playing Winston Wolf (The Wolf) and he solves problems.
@@blockbertus Thanks for info....never watched it.
@@moestrei No worries. But I highly recommend watching it. A very good classic!
Or they could, you know, make sure the cars work properly before they leave the factory... 😉🙃 Having stricter quality control of components, to reject faulty components before they ever get put on assembled cars in the first place, and minimising production line errors so few to no cars need to be set aside for rework (or not set aside and sold to customers anyway as it may be)?
Dan you’re a blessing to your customers and guys like us who follow you and aspire to be one of the greats! Thanks for all you do brother!
Thanks for the fantastic comment 😁
We are not going to bash others but me , you and a lot of others just know that the repairs done by the dealer and the independent are pure guess work. The last two months I have seen at least 5 wrongly diagnosed cars that where easy enough to diagnose properly, not rocket science, but for some reason wasn't performed. A touareg with a vacuumleak in the hose to the brake booster was diagnosed as being a bad booster and charged the client full price for not fixing the car and today I got a A class where the steering rack was replaced while the BIG PLUS wire is straight in your face to check for power. It is absurd. I don't know what is in the air, and I am NOT the Nr1 mechanic in the world but c'mon people. Basic things. You have your head with your job Danny. Respect and great video.
Thanks for your comment, do remember that there are alot of great Dealership techs out there. Its not all bad!
Another great video, Dan! Thanks!
These engines are known to have timing chain issues. This confirms exactly my experience with BMW dealerships; completely unable to do a proper diagnosis. Also, the engine cowl seems to be fucked, also suggesting a incompetent mechanic has been working on it.
Unfortunately i also wasnt impressed by the Dealership diagnosis
Dan is the MAN. always an amazing look at how things are supposed to work as he walks through the logical steps
Thanks for your great comment
Diagnose Dan said in a really polite way, “your engine’s f**ked mate” 😂
Kinda😂
Dan to the rescue! Not all heroes wear capes! 😂
I suspect Dan has a cape, but he only puts it on for sexy time :)
🤣💪
Excellent Diagnostic procedures by Dan. Not enough folks use scopes, but they save so much time if you learn to use them.
Good job, I was leaning towards the immobiliser, on the earlier models fuel was one of the systems inhibited by the ecu if it was not happy with the response from the EWS immobiliser module.
It sounds like the owner needs to sue the dealer as well as the previous shop.
It's not the dealers fault. It's the so called Technican that did the job.
@@2nickles647 you are so blind. The dealer is the one that has the tech. The dealer is responsible.
You dont need to sue right away you can also show the results and ask for a solution.
I think a compression test at the start would have this figured out. When Dan first turned over the engine it sounded like a engine with a broken timing belt.
That was my thought also, spark and fuel tick….next is compression
This actually the first time he goes first with scoping cam sensors. On the past he does relative compression ( he even has that specific tool with green graphs) or absolute compression test with sensor that he do last. He just wanted to extend the video at end is a you tube educational video.
Its all easy once you know whats wrong.😉
It didn’t sound like a broken timing belt to me. I feel like Dan was expecting it to run on alternate fuel by how much he sprayed and how many times he cranked it.
Most BMW engines don't have timing belts.
Very happy to see that you are more and more explaining stuff. So the diagnosis is great, but then also *LEARNING* why stuff doesn't work is next level. Keep up the good work!
I certainly can't diagnose to your level, but as a weekend mechanic I know enough to check spark, air, and fuel. I'm completely shocked that the dealership and independent shop didn't squirt starting fluid into the air intake to see if the engine would fire. That is such a basic troubleshooting tip, and probably would have led them in the right direction. Thanks for a great video; learned a lot as always.
Synchronized fuel regulation performed at the high pressure pump? I'll have to scope this out the next time we get one of these in the shop. Very interesting... I have changed these pumps for causing timing chains to jump on an Audi and leaking fuel into the crankcase, but never thought the timing had an influence on the pressure.....
It has, next time you have a timing problem also scope the hpfp regulator and tell me what you see!
Dan needs to become a consultant and teacher. He diagnosed the vehicle beyond what the DTC codes and other shops wrote up. He strayed from scratch and didn’t allow other to mislead him. We need more people with the understanding of how things work and the order of operations. Schools are not teaching problem solving they want the techs to rely on the stored codes in the computer.
First time coming across this Channel and I am now subscribed. 👍🏽 great job.
I am not a master tech or even a tech by trade but with what my father taught me and my understanding of how things work I have been able to do 90%+ of repairs and maintenance on all my vehicles and toys. I have even had to correct the work of shops because the techs are so rushed they don’t secure or place everything back in it’s place and I hear or see it once I am back home and it’s easier to just do it my self than go back waste time fuel and energy teaching someone their job. I document and send and email.
Thanks!
Thank you very much its really appreciated
Thanks Dan, I am glad to have found your excellent videos and have watched several already and learned more each time. I especially enjoyed your F15 40E Hybrid video no crank from starter video. I didn't know these Hybrids had two starter systems. One from conventional starter, mounted in front of engine which shocked me, and the electric motor starter in transmission.
In my situation I get a quick one second attempt to start and then starter stops over and over, so it appears not to be cranking long enough to start. The electric starter does not work either. I don't know which is not staying engaged yet as I had almost given up. I am old school BMW owner for years and this Hybrid is a whole new beast to me.
As there are very few discussions on the BMW Hybrid, I am at a loss to find out where to look next. I had bad 12VDC battery which I replaced and registered and that got rid of the dozens of low voltage faults, but I still have codes permanent and intermittent. I figured this may be why engine won't start. DME 21A117 and EME 222D04 and searching for potential issues I see there is a short somewhere, and if that means a had connection of a short to ground, I don't know where to look. My Hybrid charges up to full 18M level, so I am at a loss. Have you ever run into this with a Hybrid before. Any tips would be appreciated.
Thanks a million, Mike
Great diagnosis of course, but this is a very common issue on this engine, I'm surprised the dealer missed it, and its not an interferance engine, new chain and guides is what we normally do on these.
This engine looks very similar to the N18B16 we have in the USA in mini coopers. The timing chain guides break very often and are a chronic issue on these cars. We had one last week that ran poorly and another shop told the customer it was due to "bad engine software" which caused misfires at idle. We popped the valve cover to verify timing and the upper guide was broken like this and the intake cam was 1 tooth off. The "other shop" wasted $1500 on useless chemical carbon cleaning the valves and even installed a new timing chain tensioner which they left loose/leaking- essentially resolving nothing!
Am Oleke from Nigeria, I'm learning auto electrician, & have watch most of your UA-cam lectures, they are helpful to me. Thanks
Thats great to hear!
Another great video. You are truly awesome at what you do.
Dealerships are often terrible at diagnosing faults, so it's really important to find good independent repair shops like yours.
I also know some fantastic dealer techs! It really depends on the employees
Wonderful Dan!!! I am an old school mechanic. Thus, the very first thing I verify on any engine is basic engine timing - with the valve train. Using the valves, it lets one see how the valves are operating (or not) with the reciprocating mass. Obviously, after that is time for compression, spark and fuel. Seems very out of sequence, but it has always served me well. In this case, the Dealership would have located the problem right out of the gate. So, what was the outcome/fix?
Nice work Dan, I really like the way you conduct your diagnosing and present it in the videos. If the timing was so far out I would expect there to be little to zero compression due to valves being damaged or staying open at the wrong time etc. It might have well been exposed earlier if a compression test had been conducted.
Did the engine not have compression? Look at the in-cylinder waveform presented in the video
great learning video as they all are,im sure i started the parts darts thero😊ium on the old car mechanice forum back in the first days of the internet and still nothing changes,never will because training is related to profit not fix,thats why i work for me
Thanks for watching my videos its appriciated
Very good diagnostics on this problem however, I still don’t understand why the scan tool didn’t pick up a fault code.
Great video Dan and very relatable, unfortunately my Golf MK6 '09 has a similar issue... which its first diagnosis was also a broken fuel pump but ended up being out of time (which is also a common issue for the engine..
Not a great outcome but fortunately you know whats wrong
Great work, Dan. I am amazed by how many dealers/independents don't do their basic checks. I've so some many places go in to deep first. Great channel 👍🔧🔨
Brilliant as usual. Never forgetting the basics amongst all that technology. I am left wondering if the diagnoses is complete? The question I have is:- Has the timing problem caused damage to the Valves. I realise the timing has to be fixed before this can be investigated.
No the diagnosis and repair is not complete yet. But i was only asked to diagnose the initial problem.
Thanks dan, thats was amazing trouble shooting. I’m in my first year apprentice mechanic here in montreal and have seen car that was sitting in the dealership parking lot but couldn’t be fixed and because im new in this trade. Im always curious about how in the world a dealership cannot fix its own car with all tools and information available.
i remember the strategy on a common rail diesel i used to work on if the starter wouldnt reach a certain rpm none of the outputs on the ecm would turn on. then there was a stage they would turn on but there was no fault checking until another rpm level was achieved. i had one i had to use a photo tach even though it would crank over to prove out a faulty start system causing low rpm cranking for a no start. no one in the shop wanted to believe me. and they all blamed fuel system because it would start on either.
We had one last week, installed a bigger battery and the rpm was reached and the car run again
The beauty of it is how you started with the basics of low pressure is ok high pressure is not. Here I like how you figured out that it is mechanical the rest is an art. Well done and big thank you.
My pleasure
So in some scenarios/instances it's worth digging that bit deeper,like you removing the rocker cover & doing a mechanical timing plus seeing those pieces broken,mystery solved! Great video ❤
Yes i wanted confirmation 😂
@@Diagnosedan You are ace! Not many around like you my friend, you got some brains up there,much respect. ❤
DiagnoseDan, that was pretty cool of you to share that with us. Sometimes just getting back to basics is what is needed and to not shotgun parts at it in an attempt to solve a problem. Way to go, video.
Exactly! Thanks for watching
The absolute smartest thing you did was to introduce an alternative fuel source and as soon we heard the engine not attempt to start anyone would know there is something mechanically wrong. How does this get missed by a professional? Put the parts canyon away! What recourse does the customer have due to the incorrect diagnose? Did the dealer and the independent shop give the customer their money back? The customer had to pay for two tows, did the customer get reimbursed for that?
How many kilometers does this BMW engine have on it for the timing chain guide to have failed? Is the engine worth fixing since it is an interference engine because some valves could be bent? When you did attempt to start it the cranking sounded even which by using my ears I would say no valves were bent.
As always you are a master and I hope other "professionals" can learn from you.
I dont have the answers about the customer being reimbursed. The independent workshop picked up the vehicle and is going to fix it
Dan. I really enjoyed your diag. It was so methodical and so well done. I would say that you are "The Master." I will be back to enjoy other problems being diagnosed. Note: Your English is superb! You possess many attributes that most of us do not. :-) Thank you, again. N6395T (Although the Piper Arrow was my favorite. :-)
Great video! I think the second shop don't look the timing, maybe the tech don't see any dtc related with ckp/cmp and don't look no more
Maybe
I have thought it was a malfunctioning pressure release valve. But I didn't know it was controlled by the engine timing. Thanks!
Thanks for watching
I especially like your approach Dan. When I had my garage, I am now 74 by the way. I often took the simple approach on a non starter. Like you, the idea as to how an engine works is simple. It requires Fuel and oxygen to burn. A spark to set fire to the fuel and Compression to force an explosion in the combustion chamber. All that at a very precise moment. And that's where valve timing comes into the equation.
Thanks for your comment!
When you checked for spark the timing on the spark was not even. It made me think there was a timing problem, even though I am no expert.
I learned a lot without being a professional mechanic. thanks my friend. Greetings from Peru
Rally enjoyed watching this!! most dealerships have NO idea how to fix problems, they just keep replacing parts, hoping it will work !!!
I'm lazy, my first thought was to spray starter fluid to see if it would attempt to start.
The scope traces are next level.
I find the control routine odd that it's based on cam position. It would make more sense that it's controlled by pressure output.
Anyways great detective work!
Great video! My local Stealership has been causing me some doubts with my 2013 BMW 328i. Some time ago I had the car in for service and strangely enough I got it out and 20 minutes later the serpentine belt broke. I got a new Continental belt which took me 15 minutes to replace. During another service visit they wanted to replace the belt which was only about two months old.Too bad you’re not in Florida because my vehicle would be serviced by you.
I've been to Florida a few times, but i think it would be to hot for me to work there! 🌞🌞🌞🌞
Enjoyed the video. Logical thinking, good simple explanation. Glad it isn't my car, anticipating valve damage after the tensioner failure!
I noticed early on they didn't have a consistent spark on that plug from thinking maybe the crank sensor or Cam positioning sensor
The dealer,will never take the time to diagnose this,as detailed as you do. They need to make money, not repairs.
I use to do it when I was on my own. Now we just do money. :) But my love is still in diagnosis. And when I get the chance to help in situation when some technician is stuck, it's my biggest self reward. Congratulations Dan for what are you doing, for all your professionalism and that you make it public as well!!!
Thanks for the great comment!
Would hope to see a video with the final fix of this car, if it happens for you to finish it. Great logical steps taken!
The independent workshop will keep me updated, when i have more info i'll post it on my Facebook page
Good work Mr Dan, is a ridiculous that a specialist on a particular car can’t diagnose a problem before replace the parts.
Yes thats a Shame
I work at a BMW dealership and got a diesel car in. It had some work done at our shop a week earlier, and on the 2nd day after that visit, the engine started running rough on startup, then died and didn't turn back on. The car was towed in and, like this one, there were no fault codes for the engine. I did the basic tests, reading fuel pressure, checking if it had the correct fuel and checking the airmass system including EGR system. Everything checked out. Even tried removing exhaust sensors before DPF to check if it was blocked. I also removed a sensor from the intake manifold to spray in some silicone spray to see if the engine at least tried running on it. What I noticed was there was actually more smoke coming from the intake manifold than the exhaust manifold. Started to look more and more like timing but the diagnostic software even in expert mode said that camshaft and crankshaft synchronization was OK. Still, I removed the camshaft sensor and was able to see through that hole that the camshaft was spinning. I still suspected timing because nothing else could explain this behaviour other than timing. So I got permission to remove the valve cover and manually check the timing. And when I did, I immediately saw that 7 of the 8 rocker arms on the intake camshaft were broken and had fallen off. The customer was notified and he refused further work so I didn't finish checking by how much the timing was off. Needless to say, the work done the week earlier was completely unrelated to the timing, just bad luck.
What this, and your video, reminded me of, is that we cannot put too much trust in the computers. A large majority of the time, the computers are right and guide us to correct diagnosis's, but we always have to use our common sense and knowledge of how engines work to confirm what the computers are telling us (or not telling us), in order to prevent unnecessary parts replacements. Like in both of these cases, mine and yours, where the computer does not report the timing to be off even while it most certainly is.
Well said, scantools are "tools" to assist us in diagnosing the issue. They wont tell us what parts te replace.