You can watch my tier lists for DDs/Cruisers/BBs to see where I actually rank these ships in terms of performance, this video is ranking them in the extremely hard to measure "is it worth getting?" value. Twitter: twitter.com/flamuchz Discord: discord.gg/Flamu Stream: www.twitch.tv/flamuu Insta: instagram.com/flamugram/
I struggle to see how WG are planing to make potential 12 gun T10 french supercruiser interesting when Bourgogne exists. >But what if we make it go 50 knots under boost?
I have a thing for Austin. It's hilarious what happens when hit that reload booster on a pushing battleship. And recently a Hinde tried to fight this thing at cqc... It was bad. Really bad. Fight lasted 10 seconds. He ate a torp, and hundreds of shells. I still had a ton of health.
I wonder if I was that Hindy, I had a similar game in ranked the other day. Was pushing an Austin at a cap/island at the end of a match, after the rest of my team folded, and ate a torp and was gunned down. To be fair I was already down to a third health so it didn't take much gunwork after the torp hit, and I was pushing the Austin in a dumb way to just get the kill/damage. I'd still say say the Hindy has the better chance if it can land some well placed AP and maneuver around the torps/angle the shells. Hell got some good shots into the Autstin I was against with citadels as it launched torps.
@@Swarm509 sure sounds accurate. Tell me, in the final moments, was the Austins aft end, beached? If so... Twas me. "Dixon_Cyder". Be warned, that ship has really effective armor at angle. It looks like a light cruiser, but you can ap my bow and my sides are 32. What I don't have... I don't have a goddamn thing if I have nobody to spot for me. Or I'm undefended from a dd, spotting me. I get fucked.
@@emilyhofland8219 This for me is the main drawback on Austin, like if you div with her and you've got a reliable DD spotting for you and even giving you smoke you can be a huge menace. She feels very very team reliant so for randoms that can end poorly lol.
I picked up Bourgogne for my first steel ship and I'm in love with it... You can do the typical BB gameplay and be ineffective, just sniping from the back hoping someone goes broadside, or a cruiser gameplay and nuke anything broadside with the reload booster.
Austin was way worth buying for me, at least in regards to fun (and also my winrate still outperforms most of my other T10 Crusers after like 50 games). The Assasin playstile is realy rewarding, the Torps are realy good, the effektive DPM (in comparrison to the theoretical DPM) is not as bad as you make it sound and the beltarmor is quite a meme.
I will only get Shiki and not Baguette for my first steel ship beacuse: 1- Having a premium Yamato is soo nice, especially with Yamamoto 2- I have JBB. Yes, its not the same playstyle as Bourg, but that reload booster + 380mm (using it to farm credits) has been a must play everyday to me (started playing last year) 3- Having to deal with campy teammates (solo player here) is pretty bad, and not every time I will carry with a Bourgogne 4- Having a fixed premium Yamato allows me to reset the IJN BB line to grind Research Points (its one of the funniest lines to play), and i won´t lose my "Yamato" 5- Only after the above, to get the gun sounds and other Shiki features If it wasnt for that, Bourgogne is soooo worth over Shiki, but for me... I always dreamed of a shiki in my hands ^^
I got Plymouth for my first steel ship. I really liked the entire Royal Navy light cruiser line (even the Emerald and the Neptune). Plymouth offered more of that game play I enjoyed, so I got it. I like it just as much as I thought I would.
He massively underrates her. She's much more tanky than Mino, has radar and smoke (even if the radar is only 9km) and has really good damage output. She can also effectively stealth radar when spotted with a concealment of 9.2km. She's more useful than a mino in ranked since if Mino wants radar, she won't be using her guns anywhere nears as much and if she has smoke, she's a bit of a waste of a cruiser slot. I'd have put her A tier. She's basically a much more tanky Minotaur which trades half her torps and her effective range for survivability, consumables and, in my opinion, more powerful guns.
It's the most dangerous target in my book, right after any dd within my effective range. Everyone should try to take down utility ships of the enemy ASAP.
Fdr would be a strong A even though its a broken asf carrier the problem with the ship is the aircraft speed and maneuverability which make it difficult to spot dd's and then line up an attack run but the attack runs have massive alpha. Mecklenburg probably a b tier sure you can vomit 16 shells at things and delete cruisers and you have good secondaries but Bourgogne does that better because it has the pen to deal dmg more consistently on more armored targets.
Well, Plymouth has radar and smoke, minotaur can only chose one, and it doesn't get super heal... so I don't know. I guess if you don't like mino. Don't get plymouth.
Flamu doesn't promote cancer. He's skipped over every CV in the other ranking vids he's done over the last month, and didn't do a tier X tech tree CV video either.
Is it me or are all the T11 boats not appealing at all. Trying to make MBRB a perk instead of a consumable. And they're definitely gonna be Steel/Coal cuse why continue the line when you can sell them.
@@99-221 indeed nothing like you said. But I wish more people buy it because smashing this ship is so easy - eats more cits than Mino if that is even possible lol.
Let's just say that, if u want to make money and emphasis on the fun factor play tier IX, this is worth to play.. Avoid full match X with hull overmatch with CV and 2 subz and 3 DDs.. that said, no need to scratch your head very long, just get a Stalingrad to feel the power in your hand once, the Stalininium hoooming shells are worth trying!
Hey mister.. I got the Marceau due to your recommendations. And I suck with that ship.. It's really bad. How can you play a dd with bad concealment, and no smoke.. I need a new How to Marceau video ASAP !!!
Marceau should be played like a US light cruiser either he spamming from behind an island or at range you can’t play it like a cap contested till mid to late game once some of the ships are gone then you can just rush down and kill any dds left that out spot you
God, I feel so old watching these coal and steel ship vids. Havent touched ships for a long time and waiting for Black, Thunderer, Jean Bart, Somers and Smolensk to show up on these lists. I only remember a flolo vid about Smolensk getting removed for popularity reasons or some sh...I guess the rest is gone as well.
I love bourg when it works but it does have its weakneses - low healthpool so burns down if you end up spammed with HE, 15" shells so forced to switch to HE if you have bow tanking bbs pushing you (although sometimes can shoot into the superstructure it becomes less consistent), need to marshal your consumables so you have a speedboost available when you need it and a reload booster if you get a broadside...
I understand that Austin is weak, but god is it fun to play. It is quite vulnerable, so you have to be very cautious(which imo adds to the fun), but when you get to deal damage this thing is brutal, i love it. No regrets in getting it
@@zobayer1 Effective DPM > theoretical DPM, Reloadbooster effectively gets you 1min of damage in 15 seconds, after that you can disengage. Its rare that an enemy ship is spotted for 1 minute strait for you to farm it. SAP lets you target alot of ships where normal CL HE would shatter. Also the T3 Captain perk gives you +10% DPM for free as the guns are low calliber.
@@general_alexus2533 I see. So, the other ships with the higher gun caliber and much more "theoretical DPM" somehow should give you less "effective DPM"? And how is your theoretical SAP damage somehow translating to effective damage, as soon as people angle your low caliber guns don't even pen that much. You don't have much range. Your only hope to deal damage is people pushing into you. For most of the match, you remain "disengaged". This is considering you aren't being spotted by the CV, or DD. in that case you can't even get out of cover. You cannot say "effective dpm" for other ships and carry on to talk about "theoretical dpm" for Austin just for the sake of argument.
@@zobayer1 I was making the case for not ONLY looking at theoretical DPM. Not more not less, Ships like Colbert, Marceau eg. have a much harder time using theire DPM effectively as Gunarcs/Shellflighttime and HE pen let them miss/shatter maybe 50-70% of ordanance, meanwhile Stalingrad with AP angels;flat arcs and fusetime get nearly 100% on target. Austin has good balistics and 36mm pen, on top of that the realoadbooster, short bursts are a much more common engangement than continued fire (especially if you are a CL without Smoke).
Ragnar boring? yep probably so I got the Groningen and it's boring too. no torps so sit in smoke and Ba Boom Ba boom Ba boom Ba boom Ba boom etc etc etcetera etcetera etcetera... BORING! It's DD guns so how many hits on a BB to kill it? Ba boom Ba boom Ba boom over and over and again and again AND AGAIN... GOOD GRIEF!!!!! TOTALY BORING!
When flamus talking about people trolling about Austin, is he referring to flambass saying it's OP? I remember when it came out he put a bunch of vids out about it being OP. I'm assuming that's who he's talking about.
1.) Bourgogne has a much much higher percentage of its total owners that are below average players compared to Stalingrad. Bourgogne may require more skill than say Shiki... But that isnt saying much and its nothing compared to the skill requirement of the non BB steel ships. 2.) According to proper analysis of the data when last available.. Bourgogne is massively overperforming and has been since its release. In fact it is the most overperforming non-cv in the game. A performance that has always well exceeded any performance Stalingrad has ever had and Stalingrad also has far less below average owners thus its performance is also inflated. Yet... Stalingrad has been nerfed multiple times and Bourgogne has not.... WG not understanding data analysis, balance, nor even keep to their own standards. 3.) Stalingrad has never been overperforming. Just because WG says it was or is ( or a CC... Says it was or is) and nerfs it does not mean they have any understanding of what they are talking about. 4.) Ragnar is underwhelming. It requires long matches to make any impact at all beyond radar. It is a fire spitting damage dealer without any burst to speak of... Burst damage..Which is king in pvp. Being able to bully dds which are generally underperforming themselves isnt much of a statement.
Bruh austin is soo much fun, my favourite ship actually. Who cares if its not as competitive. It's also far more tanky than any light cruiser and people have you believe, in fact I regularly open water gun boat as a super destroyer very fun walkin the knifes edge and going in and out of detection then assassinating people with RB and go invis again. It's hilarious.
Welp, I'll confess, I am an owner of Austin. I bought her only for the ridiculous gimmick, should've bought Bourgogne though. However, when you get to use it on someone, it's just so laughable.
You know Flamu can be a real Arrogant prick,,,,but on the otherhand, he really knows this game and is dead honest telling the rest of us how we should play the fuckin game LOL, Thumbs up dude:)
They do recycle ship names if they've been decommissioned. USS Nevada was the lead ship of the Nevada class (BB-36) which included her sister ship Oklahoma (WG PLEASE FIX THAT ATROCITY!), but now Nevada is an SSBN.
Shikishima is the worst ship I’ve played, it simply doesn’t hit anything. After 100 games I just gave up and forgot about it. My last game in Shiki I fired 4 full salvos at a broadside BB 10km away, 1 salvo hit for 3k.
That's why I got the Bourgogne first, 6 guns is crap for high tier. My Georgia is the same, Some times i can have great games but most of the time the 6 guns going against 9 or 12 gun ships it loses out. Georgia is supposed to have accurate guns, Complete BS like the Shiki. I have missed full broadside stationary targets and that's within normal gun range not using spotter.
I have a wujing, and I love that ship. Basically an Alsace. And its basically the same play style as bourgogne but without the reload booster. Its weird the shells looks like shotgun dispersion but you will be shocked that they do hit well 10k + salvos. And I don't feel like the shell are floaty at all. The only issue really is when you are one of the remaining ship in your team and the enemy have over match. Even if you face tank, you eat huge damage. Like when I face Musashi on Wujing. But with no overmatch on enemy side it is pretty fun. As for steel, I end up getting Shikishima. So far met 3 bourgogne who were the last surviving late game. Again tried to turn or face tank me and Shikishima boom right on the snooze. Anyways, I just really do like the Shiki gunsounds. It echoes. So much that I put the speaker near max and 4 mins through the match my neighbour knocked to complain about the "BOOOOM" Explosion sounds.
My only steel ship is Stalingrad..I am thinking to get Ragnar based on the ranked capabilities but Bourgogne is too good to ignore, i really like my Jean Bart and this is much better.. I have 4 months to decide and 2-5k steel to gather :)
Yup. JB is more of a static, island hugging boi whilst Bourg is the BB that's always rushing down the 1 or 12 line, alone, reload boosting anything that gives it broadside (or BBs that damage con). Similar premise but the actual playstyle is very different. Yes, you can play JB almost just like Bourg but if you can literally bow tank without loosing any DPM what-so-ever, why would you not?
@@martinpalmer6203 I cit Incomparables and petro's all the time in Bourgogne, It's not that great as you make it out to be spamming all the comment replies! Comes down to the player and so far because the Incomparable is new, All I see is noobs playing it that die in the first 7 minutes.
@@UndesiredPencil you know what? You're probably right: you take more risks and close combat fights in Jean Bart. That extra turret only tries to encourage you play more like Republique and Henri: from concealment and when it isn't possible from range. Which IMO only makes it more boring. As you might've guessed I was disappointed in this ship.
Thx Flamu for destroying my grind since 3 Years for my steel. I respect ur opinion everytime but i dont have fun with Bourgogne. U have to play it like a cruiser and i wanted a BB i am so dissapointed i should take shikishima or Ragnar maybe. Now i can wait 3 Years again for my next steel ship big thanks .
Still hilariously OP, I'd say S tier easily. I got it this christmas. Stupidly good at spotting and farming damage. A CV that is more unfair than anything else in the game, causally dropping 20k damage + multiple fires is just straight up BS if you're on the recieving end ;)
@@saiyajinog7424 Nakhimov is better than FDR IMO. Nakhimov is just as tanky as FDR during the attack run, and also hit like a truck on all 3 ordinances and only need 1 strike. By the time the FDR squadron reloaded, a well positioned Nakhimov would already send the second squad. I stop playing FDR after I got the Nakhimov. Nak is pure BS.
I'm saving my steel for Bourgogne....and hoping I'll get her before (if) she gets removed, I don't play clan battles and have only touched one Ranked season so far. But whenever I come up against one, I'm very cautious.
To give you a real answer, it's A imo. Currently Nakhimov is more worth it than FDR and that's a tech tree ship. But FDR is second to Nakhimov. It's also very boring to play. I don't recommend it cause it's both boring to play and annoying to play against. Just a ship designed to frustrate everyone incl. the one playing it.
I have one and I regret getting it. I got it for clan battles but I've stopped liking carriers all together so I don't even play it anymore. It's so boring to play.
@@martinpalmer6203 against Woocester, eating multiple Flaks clouds at once, the planes have always been destroyed easily. You can see that in older Flambass videos about FDR even.
If you are buying steel ships you have most or all tier 10s. I'd love to see a tier list that ranks steel ships for people who have a job and only get enough steel to buy one every couple years...
This is that list, it still works perfectly fine. Of course you can think "no, i want something that suits my playstyle and I can train captains with" and go with any one of these. I used to want Austin just for the lolz, but I turned away for Stalin because I already have Des Moines and a good US premium.
everytime i see bourgone. I see weak ship. Everyone say its strong ship... but in what? YoU cAn SpAm He! yeah thunderer/conq do that tripple as good. 380mm in Tier X are pretty much worthless, we can see how it works for pommern and thats IX. Last time i encountered bourgone i was in DM and how it ended? he couldnt kill me on 4km range... cause he couldnt overmatch me when i angled... if he had 406mm i would certanly died. for me is Bourgone last ship i would buy. But thats mine point of view
???? Every supercruiser would be fucked by Des Moines at 4 km. Hell even a torpedo cruiser might not turn fast enough to drop torps before getting pumped full of citadel hits. Being this close removes main weakness of cruiser battles at DM -- you may struggle to hit things. What you end up with is ship with the highest heavy cruiser DPM in the game by far.
If you where playing a good player he would have stayed at range and fired HE at you then stop and either speed boost around to your flank or wait till you forget about him then reload booster AP and send you packing the only time a Bourgogne should be that close to a DM is if it’s the end of the game and it has no other choice to try and win the game I’m not that good of a BB player and it is my highest average damage BB probably because it really does play more like a cruiser which is my most played class
Thank you so much for doing these vids! Super informative and entertaining as well! I’m torn right now between Stalingrad and incomparable. I already have Bourgogne and Shikishima. Any recommendations anyone?
You can watch my tier lists for DDs/Cruisers/BBs to see where I actually rank these ships in terms of performance, this video is ranking them in the extremely hard to measure "is it worth getting?" value.
Twitter: twitter.com/flamuchz
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Flamu can you make a settings and mods video please
Funny about the Bourgogne, It is actually the best 'Supercruiser' in the game, virtually nothing about that ship screams Battleship.
Yeeting around in 42kts, 13km detection, and can dump out 12 380mm shells every 12 seconds. She is the Superbattlecruiser.
@@doducduy96 hold up, did you say "every 12 seconds"?
@@wote2760 yeah when the MBRB is active. Bad day for whoever got flanked by her.
@@doducduy96 whats the standard reload tho?
@@wote2760 28. (24.6 with reload mod)
I struggle to see how WG are planing to make potential 12 gun T10 french supercruiser interesting when Bourgogne exists.
>But what if we make it go 50 knots under boost?
I have a thing for Austin. It's hilarious what happens when hit that reload booster on a pushing battleship.
And recently a Hinde tried to fight this thing at cqc... It was bad. Really bad. Fight lasted 10 seconds. He ate a torp, and hundreds of shells. I still had a ton of health.
I wonder if I was that Hindy, I had a similar game in ranked the other day. Was pushing an Austin at a cap/island at the end of a match, after the rest of my team folded, and ate a torp and was gunned down. To be fair I was already down to a third health so it didn't take much gunwork after the torp hit, and I was pushing the Austin in a dumb way to just get the kill/damage. I'd still say say the Hindy has the better chance if it can land some well placed AP and maneuver around the torps/angle the shells. Hell got some good shots into the Autstin I was against with citadels as it launched torps.
@@Swarm509 sure sounds accurate.
Tell me, in the final moments, was the Austins aft end, beached?
If so... Twas me. "Dixon_Cyder".
Be warned, that ship has really effective armor at angle. It looks like a light cruiser, but you can ap my bow and my sides are 32.
What I don't have... I don't have a goddamn thing if I have nobody to spot for me. Or I'm undefended from a dd, spotting me. I get fucked.
@@emilyhofland8219 This for me is the main drawback on Austin, like if you div with her and you've got a reliable DD spotting for you and even giving you smoke you can be a huge menace. She feels very very team reliant so for randoms that can end poorly lol.
I picked up Bourgogne for my first steel ship and I'm in love with it... You can do the typical BB gameplay and be ineffective, just sniping from the back hoping someone goes broadside, or a cruiser gameplay and nuke anything broadside with the reload booster.
Austin was way worth buying for me, at least in regards to fun (and also my winrate still outperforms most of my other T10 Crusers after like 50 games).
The Assasin playstile is realy rewarding, the Torps are realy good, the effektive DPM (in comparrison to the theoretical DPM) is not as bad as you make it sound and the beltarmor is quite a meme.
I will only get Shiki and not Baguette for my first steel ship beacuse:
1- Having a premium Yamato is soo nice, especially with Yamamoto
2- I have JBB. Yes, its not the same playstyle as Bourg, but that reload booster + 380mm (using it to farm credits) has been a must play everyday to me (started playing last year)
3- Having to deal with campy teammates (solo player here) is pretty bad, and not every time I will carry with a Bourgogne
4- Having a fixed premium Yamato allows me to reset the IJN BB line to grind Research Points (its one of the funniest lines to play), and i won´t lose my "Yamato"
5- Only after the above, to get the gun sounds and other Shiki features
If it wasnt for that, Bourgogne is soooo worth over Shiki, but for me... I always dreamed of a shiki in my hands ^^
Maybe Satsuma + Yamamoto?
@@Морозко-е4ж works as well, but that’s at tier 11, which may not me allowed in some game modes, like CBs
I got Plymouth for my first steel ship. I really liked the entire Royal Navy light cruiser line (even the Emerald and the Neptune). Plymouth offered more of that game play I enjoyed, so I got it. I like it just as much as I thought I would.
He massively underrates her. She's much more tanky than Mino, has radar and smoke (even if the radar is only 9km) and has really good damage output. She can also effectively stealth radar when spotted with a concealment of 9.2km. She's more useful than a mino in ranked since if Mino wants radar, she won't be using her guns anywhere nears as much and if she has smoke, she's a bit of a waste of a cruiser slot. I'd have put her A tier.
She's basically a much more tanky Minotaur which trades half her torps and her effective range for survivability, consumables and, in my opinion, more powerful guns.
"Austin has bad HE so it's bad"
What kind of animal uses HE on Austin?
Is there a RB ship list in the pipeline as well?
Your ship rankings is only valid for a very few % of the playerbase but then again the average player is bad in all ships so dont mather much....
Pretty sure everyone always just goes Stalingrad/Bourgogne for steel first up
Stalingrad’s major weakness is its absurd reputation. Players often ignore more dangerous targets to take down Stalingrad the moment it’s spotted.
It's the most dangerous target in my book, right after any dd within my effective range. Everyone should try to take down utility ships of the enemy ASAP.
I wonder where Mecklenburg would be put in here? (and Roosvelt)
Fdr would be a strong A even though its a broken asf carrier the problem with the ship is the aircraft speed and maneuverability which make it difficult to spot dd's and then line up an attack run but the attack runs have massive alpha. Mecklenburg probably a b tier sure you can vomit 16 shells at things and delete cruisers and you have good secondaries but Bourgogne does that better because it has the pen to deal dmg more consistently on more armored targets.
@@strykerk992 thanks alot! was looking for this. im now confused which to get coz stalingrad does'nt provide new experience. and ragnar is a brick
Do Tier 8 & 9 premiums
Well, Plymouth has radar and smoke, minotaur can only chose one, and it doesn't get super heal... so I don't know. I guess if you don't like mino. Don't get plymouth.
No FDR lmao
Flamu doesn't promote cancer. He's skipped over every CV in the other ranking vids he's done over the last month, and didn't do a tier X tech tree CV video either.
Is it me or are all the T11 boats not appealing at all. Trying to make MBRB a perk instead of a consumable. And they're definitely gonna be Steel/Coal cuse why continue the line when you can sell them.
Superships will be continuation for Tech tree, at least this is what wargaming said.
@@VidZarg WG says a lot of things.
It's only a matter of time until T11 prems
Ragnar smashes in RANKED! My first STEEL ship and absolutely no regrets!
No Ragrettes!
By the time I get enough steel for these ships they'll be obsolete.
I feel like you undersold Plymouth, which is fine. I like it being rare.
just play mino, better AP DPM, better radar, better stealth, better smoke, more torps, smaller ship
@@lewiskellett5654 I play Mino when I want too. I'm not going to try to sell you on the Plymouth. Nothing to see here.
@@99-221 indeed nothing like you said. But I wish more people buy it because smashing this ship is so easy - eats more cits than Mino if that is even possible lol.
@@Mario-kf3ej Yep. If you look at the armor scheme then you will see why what you say is true. It has to be. This is the internet.
@@lewiskellett5654 Mino doesn't get Radar, smoke and Hydro all at once.
Hey Flamu, where does Mecklenburg fit in this chart now?
Incomp sucks man. I regret spending the steel on it.
Let's just say that, if u want to make money and emphasis on the fun factor play tier IX, this is worth to play.. Avoid full match X with hull overmatch with CV and 2 subz and 3 DDs.. that said, no need to scratch your head very long, just get a Stalingrad to feel the power in your hand once, the Stalininium hoooming shells are worth trying!
Hey mister.. I got the Marceau due to your recommendations. And I suck with that ship.. It's really bad. How can you play a dd with bad concealment, and no smoke.. I need a new How to Marceau video ASAP !!!
Marceau should be played like a US light cruiser either he spamming from behind an island or at range you can’t play it like a cap contested till mid to late game once some of the ships are gone then you can just rush down and kill any dds left that out spot you
@@deaninchina01 I'm all questions on that one. :)
I agree.
God, I feel so old watching these coal and steel ship vids.
Havent touched ships for a long time and waiting for Black, Thunderer, Jean Bart, Somers and Smolensk to show up on these lists.
I only remember a flolo vid about Smolensk getting removed for popularity reasons or some sh...I guess the rest is gone as well.
Black will be becoming a(n overprice) coal ship after being nerfed. Otherwise, all removed, yes.
Absolutely love these videos, thank you so much!!
How can i have "Yamamato Captain" now? Is it hard to have from coral boxes?
I love bourg when it works but it does have its weakneses - low healthpool so burns down if you end up spammed with HE, 15" shells so forced to switch to HE if you have bow tanking bbs pushing you (although sometimes can shoot into the superstructure it becomes less consistent), need to marshal your consumables so you have a speedboost available when you need it and a reload booster if you get a broadside...
I understand that Austin is weak, but god is it fun to play. It is quite vulnerable, so you have to be very cautious(which imo adds to the fun), but when you get to deal damage this thing is brutal, i love it. No regrets in getting it
Same here.. No regrets 😎
True, except for the brutal part. The most meh dpm of all steel things.
@@zobayer1 Effective DPM > theoretical DPM, Reloadbooster effectively gets you 1min of damage in 15 seconds, after that you can disengage. Its rare that an enemy ship is spotted for 1 minute strait for you to farm it.
SAP lets you target alot of ships where normal CL HE would shatter. Also the T3 Captain perk gives you +10% DPM for free as the guns are low calliber.
@@general_alexus2533 I see. So, the other ships with the higher gun caliber and much more "theoretical DPM" somehow should give you less "effective DPM"? And how is your theoretical SAP damage somehow translating to effective damage, as soon as people angle your low caliber guns don't even pen that much. You don't have much range. Your only hope to deal damage is people pushing into you. For most of the match, you remain "disengaged". This is considering you aren't being spotted by the CV, or DD. in that case you can't even get out of cover.
You cannot say "effective dpm" for other ships and carry on to talk about "theoretical dpm" for Austin just for the sake of argument.
@@zobayer1 I was making the case for not ONLY looking at theoretical DPM. Not more not less, Ships like Colbert, Marceau eg. have a much harder time using theire DPM effectively as Gunarcs/Shellflighttime and HE pen let them miss/shatter maybe 50-70% of ordanance, meanwhile Stalingrad with AP angels;flat arcs and fusetime get nearly 100% on target. Austin has good balistics and 36mm pen, on top of that the realoadbooster, short bursts are a much more common engangement than continued fire (especially if you are a CL without Smoke).
Ragnar boring? yep probably so I got the Groningen and it's boring too. no torps so sit in smoke and Ba Boom Ba boom Ba boom Ba boom Ba boom etc etc etcetera etcetera etcetera... BORING!
It's DD guns so how many hits on a BB to kill it? Ba boom Ba boom Ba boom over and over and again and again AND AGAIN... GOOD GRIEF!!!!! TOTALY BORING!
Dec 2022 -- With the Addition of FDR, Mecklenburg where would you place those?
CVs ranking when ? ;D
When flamus talking about people trolling about Austin, is he referring to flambass saying it's OP? I remember when it came out he put a bunch of vids out about it being OP. I'm assuming that's who he's talking about.
well shmishima with AP gives u like 20500 damage per cit....any ship with 41k hp is insta killed
Somers?
1.) Bourgogne has a much much higher percentage of its total owners that are below average players compared to Stalingrad. Bourgogne may require more skill than say Shiki... But that isnt saying much and its nothing compared to the skill requirement of the non BB steel ships.
2.) According to proper analysis of the data when last available.. Bourgogne is massively overperforming and has been since its release. In fact it is the most overperforming non-cv in the game. A performance that has always well exceeded any performance Stalingrad has ever had and Stalingrad also has far less below average owners thus its performance is also inflated. Yet... Stalingrad has been nerfed multiple times and Bourgogne has not.... WG not understanding data analysis, balance, nor even keep to their own standards.
3.) Stalingrad has never been overperforming. Just because WG says it was or is ( or a CC... Says it was or is) and nerfs it does not mean they have any understanding of what they are talking about.
4.) Ragnar is underwhelming. It requires long matches to make any impact at all beyond radar. It is a fire spitting damage dealer without any burst to speak of... Burst damage..Which is king in pvp. Being able to bully dds which are generally underperforming themselves isnt much of a statement.
lol
lol
Lmao
@@martinpalmer6203 since when Incomp out performs Bourgogne
I‘m 187 steel short of the Bourgogne 😭
Me too should we buy it
Not pronounced in-comparable. It’s pronounced: incomp-rable
Don't spell the E at the end of Bourgogne in order prononce it correctly.
What tier is Mecklenburg now?
Only have Somers and Stalingrad.
And Flambass thinks the Austin is great
I’m here from world of warships legends and wow the shikashima sounds amazing!
From my experience.. Austin is worth getting if you are looking for fun ship to play.. Of course if you already have some other steel ships👆🏼
Bruh austin is soo much fun, my favourite ship actually. Who cares if its not as competitive. It's also far more tanky than any light cruiser and people have you believe, in fact I regularly open water gun boat as a super destroyer very fun walkin the knifes edge and going in and out of detection then assassinating people with RB and go invis again.
It's hilarious.
Austin is like Paulo Emillo. Situational but fun.
😇😇
Flolo, you forgot to put FDG above "Absolutely". :)
Tier list for Free XP ships next?????
Welp, I'll confess, I am an owner of Austin. I bought her only for the ridiculous gimmick, should've bought Bourgogne though. However, when you get to use it on someone, it's just so laughable.
You have the street racer of wows. Not very useful but hilarious when you get to flex her strengths. It's something!
The austin pros " really really good youtube vids " XD
You know
Flamu can be a real Arrogant prick,,,,but on the otherhand, he really knows this game and is dead honest telling the rest of us how we should play the fuckin game LOL, Thumbs up dude:)
Only thing I don't like about bourg is when the speed boost runs out and you're suddenly so much more sluggish...
Eh hms Plymouth was a frigate I've been aboard her are frigates light cruisers?
They do recycle ship names if they've been decommissioned. USS Nevada was the lead ship of the Nevada class (BB-36) which included her sister ship Oklahoma (WG PLEASE FIX THAT ATROCITY!), but now Nevada is an SSBN.
Shikishima is the worst ship I’ve played, it simply doesn’t hit anything. After 100 games I just gave up and forgot about it. My last game in Shiki I fired 4 full salvos at a broadside BB 10km away, 1 salvo hit for 3k.
That's why I got the Bourgogne first, 6 guns is crap for high tier.
My Georgia is the same, Some times i can have great games but most of the time the 6 guns going against 9 or 12 gun ships it loses out.
Georgia is supposed to have accurate guns, Complete BS like the Shiki. I have missed full broadside stationary targets and that's within normal gun range not using spotter.
I have a wujing, and I love that ship. Basically an Alsace. And its basically the same play style as bourgogne but without the reload booster. Its weird the shells looks like shotgun dispersion but you will be shocked that they do hit well 10k + salvos. And I don't feel like the shell are floaty at all.
The only issue really is when you are one of the remaining ship in your team and the enemy have over match. Even if you face tank, you eat huge damage. Like when I face Musashi on Wujing.
But with no overmatch on enemy side it is pretty fun.
As for steel, I end up getting Shikishima. So far met 3 bourgogne who were the last surviving late game. Again tried to turn or face tank me and Shikishima boom right on the snooze.
Anyways, I just really do like the Shiki gunsounds. It echoes. So much that I put the speaker near max and 4 mins through the match my neighbour knocked to complain about the "BOOOOM" Explosion sounds.
Well.. I got FDR because it's unique and I love seeing a thicc wave of tops smashing a DD after pulling a 360° zoom drop on them
it's still hilariously OP as fuck, I just got it this christmas because I could :D
Dont talk like its difficult....CVs are for people who cant aim with MB or torps. End of story.
What website is this where you can sort ships like that on metrics like the flight time and such?
dude the URL is literally in the adress bar lol
My only steel ship is Stalingrad..I am thinking to get Ragnar based on the ranked capabilities but Bourgogne is too good to ignore, i really like my Jean Bart and this is much better.. I have 4 months to decide and 2-5k steel to gather :)
I went for the for the Bourgogne, as my second Steel ship after Stalingrad. Definetly worth it.
Great video. Will u do the same with researchbureau ships. 😊
Bourgogne is S tier even if you have Jean Bart?
OH hell yeah it is.
Yup. JB is more of a static, island hugging boi whilst Bourg is the BB that's always rushing down the 1 or 12 line, alone, reload boosting anything that gives it broadside (or BBs that damage con).
Similar premise but the actual playstyle is very different. Yes, you can play JB almost just like Bourg but if you can literally bow tank without loosing any DPM what-so-ever, why would you not?
Ton of fun ship. Deff scales with skill though. If you are good with ship placement and abusing other teams bad placement you will smash with it.
Yes they play completely different because of the gun lay out
one is a BB, one is a super heavy cruiser
Does Stalingrad still have cruiser dispersion or is it battle cruiser dispersion?
battle cruiser
FD?
I need only 250 steel for my next ship so the video comes to the the right time
next is supership ranking?
Forgot FDR lol
Bourgogne is literally Jean Bart with another turret. Veeery "unique" gameplay. IMO it should be near Shikishima.
I have both, and although they are similar ships they play differently.
Feels like it but it isn't
Bourgogne's speed allows her to play differently
@@martinpalmer6203 I cit Incomparables and petro's all the time in Bourgogne, It's not that great as you make it out to be spamming all the comment replies!
Comes down to the player and so far because the Incomparable is new, All I see is noobs playing it that die in the first 7 minutes.
@@UndesiredPencil you know what? You're probably right: you take more risks and close combat fights in Jean Bart.
That extra turret only tries to encourage you play more like Republique and Henri: from concealment and when it isn't possible from range. Which IMO only makes it more boring.
As you might've guessed I was disappointed in this ship.
@@danh7411 another 4 knots isn't something I can consider as a meaningful difference in those ships.
4:35 Ah yes, Flambass.
What about FDR? :-D
Poor Skylinehead LUL
Thx Flamu for destroying my grind since 3 Years for my steel. I respect ur opinion everytime but i dont have fun with Bourgogne. U have to play it like a cruiser and i wanted a BB i am so dissapointed i should take shikishima or Ragnar maybe. Now i can wait 3 Years again for my next steel ship big thanks .
How? You had all the time to research so why did you buy?
I love my borgogne. Such a fun ship to play. Even with only 380mm guns they are very very good 380s.
hi , what is sigma?
@@deaninchina01 ok thanks
i take Shiki only for the gun sound. lol i yes i ve fun on it...
What about the FDR??
Still hilariously OP, I'd say S tier easily. I got it this christmas. Stupidly good at spotting and farming damage. A CV that is more unfair than anything else in the game, causally dropping 20k damage + multiple fires is just straight up BS if you're on the recieving end ;)
@@saiyajinog7424 Nakhimov is better than FDR IMO. Nakhimov is just as tanky as FDR during the attack run, and also hit like a truck on all 3 ordinances and only need 1 strike. By the time the FDR squadron reloaded, a well positioned Nakhimov would already send the second squad. I stop playing FDR after I got the Nakhimov. Nak is pure BS.
if you have Midway then no
FDR is generally seen as OP but I really only see her as OP if you're a battleship player, FDR's slow tanky torp planes are a nightmare for BBs.
I'm saving my steel for Bourgogne....and hoping I'll get her before (if) she gets removed, I don't play clan battles and have only touched one Ranked season so far.
But whenever I come up against one, I'm very cautious.
How much steel so far?
@@dmitripetrenko4999 Didn't play the last few weeks :/ I think I was at 50% of the purchase price.
She's definitely worth it imo, she was my first steel ship after I bought her last year and she's very fun.
FDR???
Straight to D tier because Flamu despises carriers
To give you a real answer, it's A imo. Currently Nakhimov is more worth it than FDR and that's a tech tree ship. But FDR is second to Nakhimov.
It's also very boring to play. I don't recommend it cause it's both boring to play and annoying to play against. Just a ship designed to frustrate everyone incl. the one playing it.
I have one and I regret getting it. I got it for clan battles but I've stopped liking carriers all together so I don't even play it anymore. It's so boring to play.
I play it from time to time, still feels hilarioulsy Op as fuck
@@martinpalmer6203 against Woocester, eating multiple Flaks clouds at once, the planes have always been destroyed easily. You can see that in older Flambass videos about FDR even.
If you are buying steel ships you have most or all tier 10s. I'd love to see a tier list that ranks steel ships for people who have a job and only get enough steel to buy one every couple years...
This is that list, it still works perfectly fine. Of course you can think "no, i want something that suits my playstyle and I can train captains with" and go with any one of these.
I used to want Austin just for the lolz, but I turned away for Stalin because I already have Des Moines and a good US premium.
Buy Bourgogne and be done with steel ship
Did you read the title, the description? Or even watch the first minutes of this video?
everytime i see bourgone. I see weak ship. Everyone say its strong ship... but in what? YoU cAn SpAm He! yeah thunderer/conq do that tripple as good.
380mm in Tier X are pretty much worthless, we can see how it works for pommern and thats IX.
Last time i encountered bourgone i was in DM and how it ended? he couldnt kill me on 4km range... cause he couldnt overmatch me when i angled... if he had 406mm i would certanly died.
for me is Bourgone last ship i would buy. But thats mine point of view
???? Every supercruiser would be fucked by Des Moines at 4 km.
Hell even a torpedo cruiser might not turn fast enough to drop torps before getting pumped full of citadel hits.
Being this close removes main weakness of cruiser battles at DM -- you may struggle to hit things. What you end up with is ship with the highest heavy cruiser DPM in the game by far.
@@Poctyk i just said i killed Bourgone... your trying to convince me about what.
@@kuramathewolf Well yes. Killing enemy (super)cruisers at
@@Poctyk in any situation came out as bad ship for me... maybe i never met good player in it...
If you where playing a good player he would have stayed at range and fired HE at you then stop and either speed boost around to your flank or wait till you forget about him then reload booster AP and send you packing the only time a Bourgogne should be that close to a DM is if it’s the end of the game and it has no other choice to try and win the game I’m not that good of a BB player and it is my highest average damage BB probably because it really does play more like a cruiser which is my most played class
Thank you so much for doing these vids! Super informative and entertaining as well! I’m torn right now between Stalingrad and incomparable. I already have Bourgogne and Shikishima. Any recommendations anyone?
firsrt lel
hello Flamu